Caterpillar had a playdate (long)

[Phoebe & Allyson]

We went over to play with Caterpillar's separated at birth
twin (born on the same day, also has two moms) today. The
babies seemed mostly uninterested in each other, so this was
more for the moms to get to know each other.

If it weren't for having same-aged kids, I suspect we
wouldn't hang out much, primarily due to income
differential. They were really nice people who make on one
income probably 3 times as much as we make on 2 incomes, and
the two of us have enough money-related hangups that it was
hard to be comfortable in their (more gracious than our) home.

I'm not sure that having same-aged kids will be enough to
bridge the gap, since there's also a pretty big
parenting-style gap, too.

When Caterpillar was nursing for the 3rd time (we were there
about 4 hours, and one of the nursings was an "I'm upset and
need to calm down" snack), one of them mentioned that they'd
read a ton of baby books (specifically The Baby Whisperer
and Babywise) and asked if we'd read any of those. I said
we really liked the Sears and Sears books.

Their baby has a bottle (of either ebm or formula) every 3
hours (not necessarily whether she's hungry or not, but if
it wasn't 3 hours, they assumed she wasn't hungry).
Apparently, when they left the hospital, the baby wouldn't
latch, so they started pumping and bottlefeeding, which was
so much better for them, because then they knew she was
getting enough. Mom pumps 3 times a day, gets 10 ounces a
time, and everything else is formula. Pediatrician
suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.

Caterpillar was fussy, so she went into the sling. Mom
admires the sling, but wouldn't ever use it because she
didn't want the baby to be used to being on her all the time.

Their baby sleeps through the night, with the occassional
4am waking, takes a 3 hour nap every morning, and a 45
minute nap in the afternoon. Caterpillar takes 2 or 3
15-minute naps (only if she's held the whole time) and wakes
every 2-3 hours through the night. Which isn't a problem
for us, although I'd get more done with a 3-hour nap. But I
could hear the "If you parented the way we do, maybe your
baby would be a good napper like ours" thoughts. Or maybe
I'm just paranoid.

They started rice cereal at 4 months (and had been giving
her cereal in her bottle for some unspecified time). Mom is
going to stop pumping at 6 months, which we found out when I
said I'd consider encouraging weaning to TTC #2 if she was
still nursing 2 years from now. Mom pumps and dumps if she
has a glass of wine, which I found out when I explained that
I wasn't turning down a drink because I bf, but because I'd
rather have water. "We just want to be extra careful," they
said. Mom also pumps on the highest possible suction ("I
want to be as efficient as possible"), which draws blood now
and then. So she dumps the bloody milk, not because anyone
told her it wasn't safe (on the contrary, she said
everything she's seen or heard says it's fine), but because
they want to be extra careful.

On the plus side, they had tons of really cool baby toys. :)
And a baby who, in my opinion, was fussier than ours. Did
I mention that their baby wasn't as cute as Caterpillar,
either? ;)

Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
different parenting styles? I don't think they're being bad
parents (certainly not worse than the average parent), but I
think the best truce we could come to would be each of us
thinking we're doing a better job of it and keeping our
mouths shut.

Phoebe :)
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

[Chotii]

"Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
...
> We went over to play with Caterpillar's separated at birth
> twin (born on the same day, also has two moms) today. The
> babies seemed mostly uninterested in each other, so this was
> more for the moms to get to know each other.
>
> If it weren't for having same-aged kids, I suspect we
> wouldn't hang out much,

<snip lots of stuff about mainstream parenting>

> Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
> different parenting styles? I don't think they're being bad
> parents (certainly not worse than the average parent), but I
> think the best truce we could come to would be each of us
> thinking we're doing a better job of it and keeping our
> mouths shut.

Well, IMO, just having babies the same age, and having the two moms thing
going on, isn't basis enough for friendship. I didn't stay in a local
mother-baby group after the first 4 months because I literally had nothing
to talk to them about by then - all they did was talk about where to buy the
cheapest disposables and formula, and about daycare. And here was li'l ol
me, breastfeeding exclusively, using cloth diapers, and staying home with my
little girl.

I'm not sure what the money differential has to do with anything, but I
wasn't there. What you describe about the difference between their parenting
philosophies and yours was enough to make me shudder. I know I wouldn't
arrange another "play date" under these circumstances. It's no fun having to
maintain a 'truce' for the sake of a 'friendship'.

--angela

[New York Jen]

"Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
...
> We went over to play with Caterpillar's separated at birth
> twin (born on the same day, also has two moms) today. The
> babies seemed mostly uninterested in each other, so this was
> more for the moms to get to know each other.
>
> If it weren't for having same-aged kids, I suspect we
> wouldn't hang out much, primarily due to income
> differential. They were really nice people who make on one
> income probably 3 times as much as we make on 2 incomes, and
> the two of us have enough money-related hangups that it was
> hard to be comfortable in their (more gracious than our) home.
>
> I'm not sure that having same-aged kids will be enough to
> bridge the gap, since there's also a pretty big
> parenting-style gap, too.
>
> When Caterpillar was nursing for the 3rd time (we were there
> about 4 hours, and one of the nursings was an "I'm upset and
> need to calm down" snack), one of them mentioned that they'd
> read a ton of baby books (specifically The Baby Whisperer
> and Babywise) and asked if we'd read any of those. I said
> we really liked the Sears and Sears books.
>
> Their baby has a bottle (of either ebm or formula) every 3
> hours (not necessarily whether she's hungry or not, but if
> it wasn't 3 hours, they assumed she wasn't hungry).
> Apparently, when they left the hospital, the baby wouldn't
> latch, so they started pumping and bottlefeeding, which was
> so much better for them, because then they knew she was
> getting enough. Mom pumps 3 times a day, gets 10 ounces a
> time, and everything else is formula. Pediatrician
> suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.
>
> Caterpillar was fussy, so she went into the sling. Mom
> admires the sling, but wouldn't ever use it because she
> didn't want the baby to be used to being on her all the time.
>
> Their baby sleeps through the night, with the occassional
> 4am waking, takes a 3 hour nap every morning, and a 45
> minute nap in the afternoon. Caterpillar takes 2 or 3
> 15-minute naps (only if she's held the whole time) and wakes
> every 2-3 hours through the night. Which isn't a problem
> for us, although I'd get more done with a 3-hour nap. But I
> could hear the "If you parented the way we do, maybe your
> baby would be a good napper like ours" thoughts. Or maybe
> I'm just paranoid.
>
> They started rice cereal at 4 months (and had been giving
> her cereal in her bottle for some unspecified time). Mom is
> going to stop pumping at 6 months, which we found out when I
> said I'd consider encouraging weaning to TTC #2 if she was
> still nursing 2 years from now. Mom pumps and dumps if she
> has a glass of wine, which I found out when I explained that
> I wasn't turning down a drink because I bf, but because I'd
> rather have water. "We just want to be extra careful," they
> said. Mom also pumps on the highest possible suction ("I
> want to be as efficient as possible"), which draws blood now
> and then. So she dumps the bloody milk, not because anyone
> told her it wasn't safe (on the contrary, she said
> everything she's seen or heard says it's fine), but because
> they want to be extra careful.
>
> On the plus side, they had tons of really cool baby toys. :)
> And a baby who, in my opinion, was fussier than ours. Did
> I mention that their baby wasn't as cute as Caterpillar,
> either? ;)
>
> Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
> different parenting styles? I don't think they're being bad
> parents (certainly not worse than the average parent), but I
> think the best truce we could come to would be each of us
> thinking we're doing a better job of it and keeping our
> mouths shut.
>
> Phoebe :)

I find that if parenting styles differ greatly from mine and if it feels
almost like a comparison/competition thing, I do not want to be friendly
with those parents, regardless of how much our lifestyles may be similar in
other ways. I actually find that I get along better with people who have
quite different lifestyles than ours.

If it's just a matter of getting the kids together, perhaps you should wait
until the kids are old enough to appreciate each other. It is nice to have
friends the same age (for the kids) and in the same situation socially as
you and Allyson. My sisters in law are a 2 mom family and at first they
surrounded themselves with other families with similar dynamics. Now their
friends vary greatly and the kids are exceptional (for oh so many reasons!)
They understand their family and other families and have all kinds of
friends from all kinds of families.

Going off on a tangent here...I guess what I'm basically trying to say is
that if you don't like these women, then don't hang out with them. I'm sure
you guys will find other friends with similar parenting styles, if not
similar relationships, that you get along great with and who you like
hanging out with.

Just my $.02.

- Jen

[JennP]

"Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
...

> Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
> different parenting styles? I don't think they're being bad
> parents (certainly not worse than the average parent), but I
> think the best truce we could come to would be each of us
> thinking we're doing a better job of it and keeping our
> mouths shut.

I guess it can be Phoebe, but to be honest with you, (and please don't take
this the wrong way, I'm not trying to flame) I think you decided that this
friendship with the parents wasn't going to work out once you walked in
their "(more gracious than our) home". That admitted bias about the
financial differences may have tainted your opinions of their parenting
choices. Why would money matter here? Obviously it doesn't matter to them if
they invited you in their home.

If you truly like the women, really try to put your own bias' aside and try
not to be so judgmental.

--
JennP.

mom to Matthew 10/11/00
remove "no........spam" to reply

[Dawn Lawson]

Phoebe & Allyson wrote:

> We went over to play with Caterpillar's separated at birth twin (born on
> the same day, also has two moms) today. The babies seemed mostly
> uninterested in each other, so this was more for the moms to get to know
> each other.
>
> If it weren't for having same-aged kids, I suspect we wouldn't hang out
> much, primarily due to income differential. They were really nice
> people who make on one income probably 3 times as much as we make on 2
> incomes, and the two of us have enough money-related hangups that it was
> hard to be comfortable in their (more gracious than our) home.
>
> I'm not sure that having same-aged kids will be enough to bridge the
> gap, since there's also a pretty big parenting-style gap, too.<big s>
> On the plus side, they had tons of really cool baby toys. :) And a baby
> who, in my opinion, was fussier than ours. Did I mention that their
> baby wasn't as cute as Caterpillar, either? ;)
>
> Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very different
> parenting styles? I don't think they're being bad parents (certainly
> not worse than the average parent), but I think the best truce we could
> come to would be each of us thinking we're doing a better job of it and
> keeping our mouths shut.

There's a LOT going on there that would require me keeping my mouth
shut, and I don't think I could do it. Right off the bat, what struck
me was the being "extra careful" wrt dumping the EBM for no good reason.
Sounds like there's not a lot of common sense, despite the nice house
and groovy toys. For me, that would make friendship unlikely and/or
difficult.

And if you are taking your kids back and forth to each other's homes, as
they get older you WILL be put into a position of having to parent each
other's children if only momentarily ("could you watch her while I do
x?") and sooner than later you will be in conflict about your choices.

I wouldn't push the idea of friendship, if it were me. Comparing
parenting styles is bad enough when you DO agree on most points of
child-rearing, but if you are wildly divergent on the basics, unless
there are other "draws" I don't think the stress is worth the
acquaintance.

Dawn

[Judy King]

"Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
...
> We went over to play with Caterpillar's separated at birth
> twin (born on the same day, also has two moms) today. The
> babies seemed mostly uninterested in each other, so this was
> more for the moms to get to know each other.
>
> If it weren't for having same-aged kids, I suspect we
> wouldn't hang out much, primarily due to income
> differential. They were really nice people who make on one
> income probably 3 times as much as we make on 2 incomes, and
> the two of us have enough money-related hangups that it was
> hard to be comfortable in their (more gracious than our) home.
>
> I'm not sure that having same-aged kids will be enough to
> bridge the gap, since there's also a pretty big
> parenting-style gap, too.
>
> When Caterpillar was nursing for the 3rd time (we were there
> about 4 hours, and one of the nursings was an "I'm upset and
> need to calm down" snack), one of them mentioned that they'd
> read a ton of baby books (specifically The Baby Whisperer
> and Babywise) and asked if we'd read any of those. I said
> we really liked the Sears and Sears books.
>
> Their baby has a bottle (of either ebm or formula) every 3
> hours (not necessarily whether she's hungry or not, but if
> it wasn't 3 hours, they assumed she wasn't hungry).
> Apparently, when they left the hospital, the baby wouldn't
> latch, so they started pumping and bottlefeeding, which was
> so much better for them, because then they knew she was
> getting enough. Mom pumps 3 times a day, gets 10 ounces a
> time, and everything else is formula. Pediatrician
> suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.

Jeeze if my hubby could lactate that would be great. Mind you I guess you
couldn't both do it because of supply or could you?


>
> Caterpillar was fussy, so she went into the sling. Mom
> admires the sling, but wouldn't ever use it because she
> didn't want the baby to be used to being on her all the time.
>
> Their baby sleeps through the night, with the occassional
> 4am waking, takes a 3 hour nap every morning, and a 45
> minute nap in the afternoon. Caterpillar takes 2 or 3
> 15-minute naps (only if she's held the whole time) and wakes
> every 2-3 hours through the night. Which isn't a problem
> for us, although I'd get more done with a 3-hour nap. But I
> could hear the "If you parented the way we do, maybe your
> baby would be a good napper like ours" thoughts. Or maybe
> I'm just paranoid.

I'm in a coffee group and we get on like a house on fire (our firsts are all
two now and we still meet weekly) and there is quite a variation in
parenting style. I must admit though it can be easier with people who parent
the way you do.


>
> They started rice cereal at 4 months (and had been giving
> her cereal in her bottle for some unspecified time). Mom is
> going to stop pumping at 6 months, which we found out when I
> said I'd consider encouraging weaning to TTC #2 if she was
> still nursing 2 years from now. Mom pumps and dumps if she
> has a glass of wine, which I found out when I explained that
> I wasn't turning down a drink because I bf, but because I'd
> rather have water. "We just want to be extra careful," they
> said. Mom also pumps on the highest possible suction ("I
> want to be as efficient as possible"), which draws blood now
> and then. So she dumps the bloody milk, not because anyone
> told her it wasn't safe (on the contrary, she said
> everything she's seen or heard says it's fine), but because
> they want to be extra careful.

Ooooo that's got to hurt. Anyway surely the most efficient suction is the
one the most like a baby which generally doesn't draw blood.

>
> On the plus side, they had tons of really cool baby toys. :)
> And a baby who, in my opinion, was fussier than ours. Did
> I mention that their baby wasn't as cute as Caterpillar,
> either? ;)

Of course :-)

>
> Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
> different parenting styles? I don't think they're being bad
> parents (certainly not worse than the average parent), but I
> think the best truce we could come to would be each of us
> thinking we're doing a better job of it and keeping our
> mouths shut.
>
> Phoebe :)
> --
> yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt
>

Sounds like it could be difficult, that's a pretty long list of stuff which
I assume you disagree with. It's so easy to think in terms of who does a
better job of parenting but in reality it's nowhere near as black and white.
Having said that the one woman I didn't get along with in my mothers group
was most definitly the mast far removed from me in terms of parenting style
and I think that was the reason.

I guess just ask yourself if you enjoyed the visit. How did you feel coming
away. Did you think straight away about the differences of the similarities
between the four of you?

Other Mum friends are so important, I couldn't have done without them, good
luck.

Judy

[Phoebe & Allyson]

JennP wrote:

> Why would money matter here?

It doesn't make any difference as far as parenting is
concerned, at least at the age our kids are now. But it's
hard (for me at least) to make new friends where there's a
big income disparity and no strong common bond. It would be
a lot easier for me if we had more mommy stuff to
commiserate about or parenting tips to share that the other
family would be apt to use.

We did have enough in common that we were over there for the
whole afternoon, and didn't spend it in awkward silence, and
probably will get together again. I think it's great that
their baby is getting what sounds like a significant amount
of breastmilk, and that they've arranged their lives so that
they can both spend a lot of time with her (one is a SAHM,
one is part-WOHM and part-WAHM).

> Obviously it doesn't matter to them if
> they invited you in their home.

They wouldn't have known about it at the time the invitation
was extended, since all either of us knew about the other
was that were we two-mom families with same-aged kids. I'm
not sure that they're aware of it now, but I suspect it
doesn't matter to them. Unfortunately, it's a hangup that
Allyson and I both have, so inviting them to our house
(which looks like a tornado hit it) would be stressful for us.

Phoebe :)
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

[Phoebe & Allyson]

Judy King wrote:

> "Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Pediatrician
>>suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.
>
> Jeeze if my hubby could lactate that would be great. Mind you I guess you
> couldn't both do it because of supply or could you?


Before faced with the actuality of baby, I thought that it
might be nice to both be able to bf, and Allyson had
expressed willingness to induce lactation if I couldn't bf.
And I thought it might be nice if Caterpillar would
comfort nurse on Allyson if the comfort nursing was driving
me crazy. But at this point, bf is easy enough for me that
it seems silly to have her go to the effort, and we'd still
have to do something to maintain my supply.


> Anyway surely the most efficient suction is the
> one the most like a baby which generally doesn't draw blood.

That's my understanding, too. But since the counterexample
I had was "I can only stand about 1/3 suction max, but I can
only pump 3 ounces a session," I wasn't sure I had any hope
of convincing her I knew whereof I spoke.


> Sounds like it could be difficult, that's a pretty long list of stuff which
> I assume you disagree with. It's so easy to think in terms of who does a
> better job of parenting but in reality it's nowhere near as black and white.


To be fair, there was also a (shorter) list of things we
agreed on, and most of the things we disagreed on were
things that I don't feel strongly enough about that they'd
bug me even when not a topic of discussion. Our (Allyson's
and my) conversation on the way home was more along the
lines of "Boy, do they do things differently than we do"
than "Boy, what horrible parents they are."


> I guess just ask yourself if you enjoyed the visit. How did you feel coming
> away. Did you think straight away about the differences of the similarities
> between the four of you?

Right off the bat, the differences stood out more. Upon
reflection, most of the moms we know are at least as
different, although not necessarily in the same ways.


> Other Mum friends are so important, I couldn't have done without them, good
> luck.

And we really have none, at least not with little babies,
and not close (geographically). So it would be nice to be
able to get along.

Phoebe :)
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

[teapot]

Phoebe & Allyson > wrote in message >...
> We went over to play with Caterpillar's separated at birth
> twin (born on the same day, also has two moms) today. The
> babies seemed mostly uninterested in each other, so this was
> more for the moms to get to know each other.
>
> snip
>
Mom also pumps on the highest possible suction ("I
> want to be as efficient as possible"), which draws blood now
> and then. So she dumps the bloody milk, not because anyone
> told her it wasn't safe (on the contrary, she said
> everything she's seen or heard says it's fine), but because
> they want to be extra careful.
>
snip
>
> Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
> different parenting styles? I don't think they're being bad
> parents (certainly not worse than the average parent), but I
> think the best truce we could come to would be each of us
> thinking we're doing a better job of it and keeping our
> mouths shut.
>
I have the same sort of difficulties. Our parenting style is I think
a sort of middle class one, cloth nappies, exclusive breastfeeding,
slings and co-sleeping, but we are probably the only people at the
baby swimming class who get milk tokens. I am guessing this by the
other cars in the car park, they are shiny! Also I hear them talikng
about buying clothes in mothercare - I just can't justify that sort of
expendature. On the other hand, at playgroups and baby groups I meet
people who do things I totally disaprove of - dummies, smoking (not
the babies!), early solids etc. However I have really close friends
with vastly different parenting styles (all much older kids), I'm sure
we all sneer at each other behind our backs.

I think you know if you are going to click with someone however they
parent. I was thinking this morning how nice it would be for Moo to
have some other kids around but we just don't know anyone like that.
Are you narrowing the field a bit looking for 2 mum families?

moo screaming, must dash

teapot

ps - milk and blood thing sounds plain crazy!

[Herself]

Phoebe & Allyson > wrote:

> Right off the bat, the differences stood out more. Upon
> reflection, most of the moms we know are at least as
> different, although not necessarily in the same ways.

I have two friends on our street, one who has a son 2 mos older than P,
the other's son is exactly 1 year older. We all get along...okay. :-)
The kids have fun together, even tho the one who is 2 mos older doesn't
really speak English (he speaks Spanish and Arabic...for the words that
he does speak).

We all do things differently. One mom doesn't like being here at
all...she's from warm countries and the dark, damp Irish winter isn't
for her at all. The other Irish mom and I hear it a lot :-).

The other Irish mom is preg with her 2nd. Her (old skool) doc says that
if she wants the baby out at 37 weeks, he'll do it. He told her that
she has to get a c/section cause her last one turned at the last
minute..sideways. I don't know enough about that to say anything. She
does think that having formula next to the bed all night is easier than
bfing.

We don't always think the same, or do the same, but I'm glad that
they're both there. We've turned into a little pack :-). I don't have
that many friends here, and they're the ones who found our playgroups.

It's rough for me, since I do say what I think, sometimes. But they
know that, and blow off what I say if it's not what they think...I guess
we all do that.

There are financial differences, along with family diffs (my hubby works
from home, and changes most of the diapers), which they make a big point
of. That drives me crazy...but I also know that they're just
comfortable with me, and feel okay enough to say things like that.

Dunno. I think move past the diffs, and you might end up with some fun
friends. And don't worry about the house thing (of course, I can say
that, but you know what I mean)...everyone makes different amounts of
money. We know someone who made over $50 mil when his company was sold.
We still like hanging out with them :-).
--
'Tis Herself

[teapot]

Phoebe & Allyson > wrote in message >...
>snip
>
> > Sounds like it could be difficult, that's a pretty long list of stuff which
> > I assume you disagree with. It's so easy to think in terms of who does a
> > better job of parenting but in reality it's nowhere near as black and white.
>
>
> To be fair, there was also a (shorter) list of things we
> agreed on, and most of the things we disagreed on were
> things that I don't feel strongly enough about that they'd
> bug me even when not a topic of discussion. Our (Allyson's
> and my) conversation on the way home was more along the
> lines of "Boy, do they do things differently than we do"
> than "Boy, what horrible parents they are."
>
>
> > I guess just ask yourself if you enjoyed the visit. How did you feel coming
> > away. Did you think straight away about the differences of the similarities
> > between the four of you?
>
> Right off the bat, the differences stood out more. Upon
> reflection, most of the moms we know are at least as
> different, although not necessarily in the same ways.
>
>
> > Other Mum friends are so important, I couldn't have done without them, good
> > luck.
>
> And we really have none, at least not with little babies,
> and not close (geographically). So it would be nice to be
> able to get along.
>
Just remembered why I love IKEA and think it can be applied here. In
IKEA you can sneer at other peoples trolleys of usless crap knowing
that you have a trolly full of the best and most stylish bargains.
Other people can praise themseleves on their stylish bargains whilst
sneering at your trolley of crap. It's all to to with taste and
luckily I don't have to talk or bond with any other people in IKEA.

I try to be an excellent mother, I give up things like sleep when Moo
is tricky rather than let him cry. However, I do have the odd glass
of wine, leave his nappy on far too long, ignore him when I am on the
loo... whatever, what I am trying to say is that if I met a parent who
parented exacly like me I'd still be hypercritical. Maybe its the age
our babies are at. We have pretty much defined our parenting route
now and are still defensive about it becuase it is hard work, we have
heavily researched it and I for one am slightly nervous that it is
really the best way.

I'm hoping that it will be different when Moo needs other babies to
play with, and that I just won't be so picky about other parents
styles. Actually I've just thought when he's older he is going to
make all sorts of friends on his own and push us into freindships with
other parents. Maybe its up to him.

good greif, we will all be mates with larry the lavender lamb

teapot

[KC]

Jessi also doesn't sleep much especially compared to her big sister
who slept 20+ hours a day for the first 4 months (who was ebm and
formula fed). I do think that for us the bf is what makes her sleep
less. I think different women have different amounts of milk storage,
so the baby can only get so much at a time, and if they can't get too
much at a time then they have to feed frequently even at night.

The funny thing is that even though Jessi sleeps alot less than her
big sister did I sleep alot more with Jessi than with her big sister.
All that pumping made me have to work more, and I had to get up and
get bottles in the middle of the night. With Jessi, I just give her
the breast and we both sleep during the night and often for daytime
naps too.

It sounds like you don't want to be friends with those people, and
that's fine. Whatever makes you guys happy.

KC -
buy or rent Whittlestone Breast Expressers at:
http://www.alittlestore.com



Phoebe & Allyson > wrote in message >...
> We went over to play with Caterpillar's separated at birth
> twin (born on the same day, also has two moms) today. The
> babies seemed mostly uninterested in each other, so this was
> more for the moms to get to know each other.
>
> If it weren't for having same-aged kids, I suspect we
> wouldn't hang out much, primarily due to income
> differential. They were really nice people who make on one
> income probably 3 times as much as we make on 2 incomes, and
> the two of us have enough money-related hangups that it was
> hard to be comfortable in their (more gracious than our) home.
>
> I'm not sure that having same-aged kids will be enough to
> bridge the gap, since there's also a pretty big
> parenting-style gap, too.
>
> When Caterpillar was nursing for the 3rd time (we were there
> about 4 hours, and one of the nursings was an "I'm upset and
> need to calm down" snack), one of them mentioned that they'd
> read a ton of baby books (specifically The Baby Whisperer
> and Babywise) and asked if we'd read any of those. I said
> we really liked the Sears and Sears books.
>
> Their baby has a bottle (of either ebm or formula) every 3
> hours (not necessarily whether she's hungry or not, but if
> it wasn't 3 hours, they assumed she wasn't hungry).
> Apparently, when they left the hospital, the baby wouldn't
> latch, so they started pumping and bottlefeeding, which was
> so much better for them, because then they knew she was
> getting enough. Mom pumps 3 times a day, gets 10 ounces a
> time, and everything else is formula. Pediatrician
> suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.
>
> Caterpillar was fussy, so she went into the sling. Mom
> admires the sling, but wouldn't ever use it because she
> didn't want the baby to be used to being on her all the time.
>
> Their baby sleeps through the night, with the occassional
> 4am waking, takes a 3 hour nap every morning, and a 45
> minute nap in the afternoon. Caterpillar takes 2 or 3
> 15-minute naps (only if she's held the whole time) and wakes
> every 2-3 hours through the night. Which isn't a problem
> for us, although I'd get more done with a 3-hour nap. But I
> could hear the "If you parented the way we do, maybe your
> baby would be a good napper like ours" thoughts. Or maybe
> I'm just paranoid.
>
> They started rice cereal at 4 months (and had been giving
> her cereal in her bottle for some unspecified time). Mom is
> going to stop pumping at 6 months, which we found out when I
> said I'd consider encouraging weaning to TTC #2 if she was
> still nursing 2 years from now. Mom pumps and dumps if she
> has a glass of wine, which I found out when I explained that
> I wasn't turning down a drink because I bf, but because I'd
> rather have water. "We just want to be extra careful," they
> said. Mom also pumps on the highest possible suction ("I
> want to be as efficient as possible"), which draws blood now
> and then. So she dumps the bloody milk, not because anyone
> told her it wasn't safe (on the contrary, she said
> everything she's seen or heard says it's fine), but because
> they want to be extra careful.
>
> On the plus side, they had tons of really cool baby toys. :)
> And a baby who, in my opinion, was fussier than ours. Did
> I mention that their baby wasn't as cute as Caterpillar,
> either? ;)
>
> Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
> different parenting styles? I don't think they're being bad
> parents (certainly not worse than the average parent), but I
> think the best truce we could come to would be each of us
> thinking we're doing a better job of it and keeping our
> mouths shut.
>
> Phoebe :)

[Chookie]

In article >,
Phoebe & Allyson > wrote:

> When Caterpillar was nursing for the 3rd time (we were there
> about 4 hours, and one of the nursings was an "I'm upset and
> need to calm down" snack), one of them mentioned that they'd
> read a ton of baby books (specifically The Baby Whisperer
> and Babywise) and asked if we'd read any of those. I said
> we really liked the Sears and Sears books.

Perhaps I've had a sheltered life, but I'm having trouble imagining right-wing
lesbians!

> Their baby has a bottle (of either ebm or formula) every 3
> hours (not necessarily whether she's hungry or not, but if
> it wasn't 3 hours, they assumed she wasn't hungry). [...]

Straight out of Babywise.

> Caterpillar was fussy, so she went into the sling. Mom
> admires the sling, but wouldn't ever use it because she
> didn't want the baby to be used to being on her all the time.

Ditto -- Ezzo is anti-AP.

> Their baby sleeps through the night, with the occassional
> 4am waking, takes a 3 hour nap every morning, and a 45
> minute nap in the afternoon. Caterpillar takes 2 or 3
> 15-minute naps (only if she's held the whole time) and wakes
> every 2-3 hours through the night. Which isn't a problem
> for us, although I'd get more done with a 3-hour nap. But I
> could hear the "If you parented the way we do, maybe your
> baby would be a good napper like ours" thoughts. Or maybe
> I'm just paranoid.

NO -- the point of Baywise is that it's an "infant management program" (!!!)
that focusses on the baby's eating and sleeping habits. Eating and sleeping
is rigorously controlled. They probably know their baby's eating and sleeping
habits to the minute.

> They started rice cereal at 4 months (and had been giving
> her cereal in her bottle for some unspecified time). Mom is

What, before that? I'll bet it was to make her sleep.

> going to stop pumping at 6 months, which we found out when I
> said I'd consider encouraging weaning to TTC #2 if she was
> still nursing 2 years from now. Mom pumps and dumps if she
> has a glass of wine, which I found out when I explained that
> I wasn't turning down a drink because I bf, but because I'd
> rather have water. "We just want to be extra careful," they
> said. Mom also pumps on the highest possible suction ("I
> want to be as efficient as possible"), which draws blood now
> and then. So she dumps the bloody milk, not because anyone
> told her it wasn't safe (on the contrary, she said
> everything she's seen or heard says it's fine), but because
> they want to be extra careful.

Riiiiight. They sound downright peculiar to me. Hasn't anybody told her
anything about pumping? Apparently different women do better at different
suctions -- high suction is not going to pull out more milk. And pumping and
dumping after a drink is just silly. Why not just not drink, or drink the
grog and give the child formula?

<snip>

> Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
> different parenting styles?

Not in this one-to-one sort of way. If you were both part of the same
mothers' group, you would be able to get along together. But I think it's
hard to be close to someone with such different parenting values unless you
are friends with them already, and can understand why they've made those
decisions. They seem more like people to network with.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Jeez; if only those Ancient Greek storytellers had known about the astonishing
creature that is the *Usenet hydra*: you cut off one head, and *a stupider one*
grows back..." -- MJ, cam.misc

[Bruce and Jeanne]

Phoebe & Allyson wrote:

> JennP wrote:
>
> > Why would money matter here?
>
> It doesn't make any difference as far as parenting is
> concerned, at least at the age our kids are now. But it's
> hard (for me at least) to make new friends where there's a
> big income disparity and no strong common bond. It would be
> a lot easier for me if we had more mommy stuff to
> commiserate about or parenting tips to share that the other
> family would be apt to use.
>
> We did have enough in common that we were over there for the
> whole afternoon, and didn't spend it in awkward silence, and
> probably will get together again. I think it's great that
> their baby is getting what sounds like a significant amount
> of breastmilk, and that they've arranged their lives so that
> they can both spend a lot of time with her (one is a SAHM,
> one is part-WOHM and part-WAHM).
>
> > Obviously it doesn't matter to them if
> > they invited you in their home.
>
> They wouldn't have known about it at the time the invitation
> was extended, since all either of us knew about the other
> was that were we two-mom families with same-aged kids. I'm
> not sure that they're aware of it now, but I suspect it
> doesn't matter to them. Unfortunately, it's a hangup that
> Allyson and I both have, so inviting them to our house
> (which looks like a tornado hit it) would be stressful for us.
>
> Phoebe :)
>


I think I can speak to the money difference, don't worry about it so
much. DD goes to a private school, so most parents are fairly well-off.
When I work, we probably fall in the middle of the pack as far as income
goes, but when I don't work, we definitely make far less money.

We live in a modest townhouse that is sparsely furnished (to put it
kindly) while DD's friends live in these MacMansions that are fabulously
decorated and furnished. Our minivan was the first new vehicle we
bought that cost over 20K while some parents drive the Lexus, MB SUV,
nice nice cars. But you know what? It just doesn't matter. When we
become friends with some of DD's "rich" friends' parents, the difference
just doesn't matter.

What I found counts more is whether or not we "click" and honestly like
being in each other's company. It's impossible to find someone like
yourself with kids the same age who shares 100% of your values and made
all the same choices.

Jeanne

[Anne Rogers]

Meet them a few more times if you want, then you'll know better if you
want to pursue the friendship. I've got friends with a smilar age baby who
in some ways have very different parenting styles (they were a bit freaked
out when I mentioned I might breastfeed til he was 2 or more!). If this
had been the first time I had met them it might have come away with a
similar summary as you did. It's similar with other people and money etc.
FWIW I did get offended when it was mentioned that I was feeding him too
much once, but we've solved that now with a bit of understanding that its
different babies, also on the whole sleep thing, I think we are more like
you and they are more like the other family you describe, but the sleep
patterns are reversed, in the last week ds seems to sleep about 13ish
hours split into 10 hrs then 3 hrs, with no training of anything, it just
suddenly happened!

[Sara]

Phoebe & Allyson wrote:

> Pediatrician
> suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.

Hey, that's pretty cool -- how many pediatricians would suggest that?
What a shame the other mom wasn't interested.

--
Sara, accompanied by the baby barnacle

[Sara]

Phoebe & Allyson wrote:

> Judy King wrote:
>

> > Other Mum friends are so important, I couldn't have done without them, good
> > luck.
>
> And we really have none, at least not with little babies,
> and not close (geographically). So it would be nice to be
> able to get along.

I was talking about a new friend of mine with my mom recently. Like
your situation, my friend and I have many differences in parenting
style, income, etc. My mom pointed out that my new friend wasn't
necessarily a friend for life, but she was a friend for now, while we
both have babies and want playdates -- and that that's good enough.

--
Sara, accompanied by the baby barnacle

[JennP]

"Sara" > wrote in message
...
> I was talking about a new friend of mine with my mom recently. Like
> your situation, my friend and I have many differences in parenting
> style, income, etc. My mom pointed out that my new friend wasn't
> necessarily a friend for life, but she was a friend for now, while we
> both have babies and want playdates -- and that that's good enough.

I like your mom's advice.

Also, you never know, those friends that are good enough for now *may*
become a friend for life. I met several moms right after Matthew was born
and really wasn't sure that we'd be friends in the long run. Do we have
different parenting styles?...well, *everyone* has a different parenting
style don't they? Income levels differ?...I guess, now that I think about
it, but I never really have. (I'm really having a hard time understanding
the whole income difference thing, but maybe that's just me)

Three years later I've become very close with them and *can* see lifelong
friendship. You really just never know. Sometimes friendship just happens
when you don't necessarily try to make it happen.
--
JennP.

mom to Matthew 10/11/00
remove "no........spam" to reply

[Phoebe & Allyson]

teapot wrote:

> Are you narrowing the field a bit looking for 2 mum families?

Probably, but we're both so anti-social that it's hard to
meet any other moms, of whatever persuasion. And we have
such odd schedules that none of the baby activities I'm
aware of would work well - they're either while Caterpillar
is still asleep, or during our swap-off period.

Phoebe :)
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

[Belphoebe]

"Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
...
> teapot wrote:
>
> > Are you narrowing the field a bit looking for 2 mum families?
>
> Probably, but we're both so anti-social that it's hard to
> meet any other moms, of whatever persuasion. And we have
> such odd schedules that none of the baby activities I'm
> aware of would work well - they're either while Caterpillar
> is still asleep, or during our swap-off period.

I sympathize! DH and I just tend to be down-right insular, and our closest
friends all live in other towns/states. Just last week, we stumbled upon a
parents' group that was meeting in the building where our local library is,
and the leader invited us in. DS, who'd just turned seven months that day,
had a wonderful time with so many babies and toddlers in one place. Once he
saw that mom and dad were settling in, he made himself at home, crawling
around, grabbing toys, and watching the ambulatory bigger kids.

We learned that the group organizes playgroups, events, babysitting co-ops,
and the like, so we think we'll look into it. But I had some misgivings
when the leader was discussing having followed her ped's advice to let her
son CIO with a mom who was ff her 5-month-old and had also used CIO.

On the other hand, two other moms bf their babies while we were there, so I
guess there's hope of finding some like-minded parents.

Anyway, I'd have the same misgivings that you did. :)

Belphoebe

[Cheryl S.]

teapot > wrote in message
om...
> I try to be an excellent mother, I give up things like sleep
> when Moo is tricky rather than let him cry. However, I
> do have the odd glass of wine, leave his nappy on far too
> long, ignore him when I am on the loo... whatever, what
> I am trying to say is that if I met a parent who parented
> exacly like me I'd still be hypercritical. Maybe its the age
> our babies are at. We have pretty much defined our
> parenting route now and are still defensive about it becuase
> it is hard work, we have heavily researched it and I for one
> am slightly nervous that it is really the best way.

This is exactly what I was thinking, but better said than I would have
done. Different parents have different priorities, but it takes a
couple of years before you can see that the kids all turn out all right
anyway, barring really egregious parenting of course. When you only
have a 6-month old, every parenting decision seems momentous, but it
really isn't, IMHO. When DD was 6 months old, I felt that I was a
better parent than anyone who used formula. But then as DD's needs
became more complex, I started to notice other aspects of parenting that
I felt they were better than me at, and realized feeding the baby is
really the barest minimum required of a parent, and there's a whole lot
else that goes into rearing a happy, well-adjusted child. Some moms are
a lot more fun and spontaneous with their kids than I am, or can
tolerate a lot more noise or artistic "creativity" (i.e., mess) than I,
for example.

Phoebe, I'd say, at this age, Caterpillar doesn't require a social life,
but you do. I'd go on a few more playdates, and reciprocate by inviting
them to your house, tornado and all. If they seem put off, that will be
a definite clue about whether to continue investing time and effort into
a friendship with them. Talk about subjects other than parenting. If
it doesn't work out, it's no big deal. I had a few playdates with
another SAHM who had also been an engineer, and we had another friend in
common, so on paper it looked promising but our conversations were
always stalling out and we just didn't enjoy it. One day we both called
and cancelled the next day's playdate because our kids were sick, and
just never scheduled another one. IOW, having another playdate isn't a
long-term commitment. :-)
--
Cheryl S.
Mom to Julie, 2 yr., 6 mo.
And Jaden, 1 month

Cleaning the house while your children are small is like
shoveling the sidewalk while it's still snowing.

[Phoebe & Allyson]

Molly Fisher wrote:

> Can ya tell how does Caterpillar feel about it all?

She loved them, at least as much as she does anyone who
doesn't live with her. One of them rocked her to sleep when
I though she wouldn't settle without nursing, and
Caterpillar napped on her for a good half hour, which is a
long nap for her. And she woke up happy and smiling. (All
of which makes me take any stated Ezzo leanings with a grain
of salt.)

4 month olds aren't that interested in each other, but they
patted each other and tried to gnaw the other's hands and
smiled.

> Maybe the relationship just needs time to develop?
An excellent suggestion.


Phoebe :)
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

[Phoebe & Allyson]

Cheryl S. wrote:

> I'd go on a few more playdates, and reciprocate by inviting
> them to your house, tornado and all.

I will ask the dust bunnies to sweep their dust bunnies
under the couch, at least. ;)

Phoebe :)
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

[DGoree]

Phoebe & Allyson wrote,

<<Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
different parenting styles? >>

Well, since I very nearly lost several already established friends over
baby-parenting styles (they were all into Babywise etc.), I can't imagine
investing the time and energy in trying to create a new friendship when you
already know your approaches are so different. Parenting style is a real
friendship-breaker IME, at least when there are significant differences as
there are in your description.

Funny. I know two two-mom families and both are very much attachment--extended
nursing--Dr. Sears-type parents. It's really surprising (and distressing) to
hear about a Babywise two-mom family.

Mary Ellen
William (8)
Matthew (6)
Margaret (2)

[Jodie]

/ raising hand /

Still waiting for our meeting! I could care less what you make or what
your house looks like :) I guarantee mine is messier!!

Seriously, though, I can understand your reservations. I would probably
give it some time, a few more meetings, perhaps, you just never know
what might happen. And it is so hard to judge by a first meeting.

Oh, and FWIW, my dd has probably the most erratic feeding schedule I've
seen. People are constantly asking me, "Does she just eat all the
time?". Well, yeah, sometimes it feels that way :)

Email me. I would love to meet you and Allyson.

Jodie :)

[Di]

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:55:50 -0500, Phoebe & Allyson
> wrote:

<snip>
>Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very
>different parenting styles?

It is possible - but it does take a bit at times to keep ones mouth
shut. We are quite go friends with a few people who have little ones
around the same age as our DD. One set of parents where friends before
DD was born so I don't know if you can count them.

However we all have different ways of parenting. Sometimes I vent to
DH, sometimes he vents to me, about the way friends are parenting. But
we never comment to the parents, unless it is a discussion.

This may be why we all get along, we all respect that different things
work for different people (be that breastfeeding/bottle feeding/early
solids/late solids/bedtime at 5pm/bedtime at 9pm/etc). We discuss what
has worked for different people and why we have chosen not to use one
method or another.

Di

[Anne Rogers]

> Funny. I know two two-mom families and both are very much attachment--extended
> nursing--Dr. Sears-type parents. It's really surprising (and distressing) to
> hear about a Babywise two-mom family.

why more distressing than hearing about a Babywise 1 mon 1 dad family?

*apologies in advance for being antagonistic, it's 4 am and I can't sleep*

-----------
Anne Rogers

[Phoebe & Allyson]

Anne Rogers wrote:

> why more distressing than hearing about a Babywise 1 mon 1 dad family?

It's not more distressing to me, FWIW.

Phoebe :)
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

[DGoree]

Anne Rogers wrote,

<<why more distressing than hearing about a Babywise 1 mon 1 dad family?>>

I didn't say it was. I find the idea that *anyone* would follow Babywise
distressing.

Mary Ellen
William (8)
Matthew (6)
Margaret (2)

[J,T&M]

LOL!!! :) I could have written this post about a playgroup "friend" of
mine as well. We do playdates and hang out at LLL but it's never gotten
beyond small talk with us. I can't be a good friend to someone that I
absolutely don't have anything in common with (ie: she gives her 12
month old sips of coke... just to keep him quiet!) as I just would not
be able to keep my mouth shut!

But... people like that can be fun just to hang with every once in a while!

Tammy
momma to the curious and spirited toddler Madeline
and
the mellow and snuggly baby Olivia

>
>
> Is it possible to be baby-friends with people who have very different
> parenting styles? I don't think they're being bad parents (certainly
> not worse than the average parent), but I think the best truce we
> could come to would be each of us thinking we're doing a better job of
> it and keeping our mouths shut.
>
> Phoebe :)

[KC]

Sara > wrote in message :
> I was talking about a new friend of mine with my mom recently. Like
> your situation, my friend and I have many differences in parenting
> style, income, etc. My mom pointed out that my new friend wasn't
> necessarily a friend for life, but she was a friend for now, while we
> both have babies and want playdates -- and that that's good enough.

I like that advice too! After all if I still had all the friends I
ever had, whew I would be busy. Only a few last forever. The rest
come and go as things are in common.

KC -
buy or rent Whittlestone Breast Expressers at:
http://www.alittlestore.com

[Dawn Lawson]

Sara wrote:

>>Phoebe & Allyson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Pediatrician
>>>suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.
>
>
> I was thinking about this. How would it work? I think of nursing as a
> one-to-one relationship (unless there are twins, etc. of course).
> Wouldn't the supply be thrown off if the baby nursed part of the time
> with one mom, and part of the time with the other?
>

Presumably, supply wise, the same as a mom supplementing. Supply would
go down per woman, but be the same overall. I think it would be more
likely to work if the split was consistant,with one woman doing days and
the other nights, or some such. Or alternating feeds.

Has it ever been done?

Dawn

[badgirl]

"Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
news:m8Dib.85509$6C4.819@pd7tw1no...
>
>
> Sara wrote:
>
> >>Phoebe & Allyson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Pediatrician
> >>>suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.
> >
> >
> > I was thinking about this. How would it work? I think of nursing as a
> > one-to-one relationship (unless there are twins, etc. of course).
> > Wouldn't the supply be thrown off if the baby nursed part of the time
> > with one mom, and part of the time with the other?
> >
>
> Presumably, supply wise, the same as a mom supplementing. Supply would
> go down per woman, but be the same overall. I think it would be more
> likely to work if the split was consistant,with one woman doing days and
> the other nights, or some such. Or alternating feeds.
>
> Has it ever been done?
>
> Dawn
>

My sister and her gf are considering having a baby and this is something
they would most likely be interested in doing. I would *gusss* that between
2 moms taking suppliments and probably pumping on top of bf'ing there would
be plenty to go around as long as there aren't extentuating cirumstances.

Jen
*who has 4 sisters of which the ONLY one who is responsible is a lesbian
LOL*

[Dawn Lawson]

badgirl wrote:

> "Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
> news:m8Dib.85509$6C4.819@pd7tw1no...
>
>>
>>Sara wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Phoebe & Allyson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Pediatrician
>>>>>suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.
>>>
>>>
>>>I was thinking about this. How would it work? I think of nursing as a
>>>one-to-one relationship (unless there are twins, etc. of course).
>>>Wouldn't the supply be thrown off if the baby nursed part of the time
>>>with one mom, and part of the time with the other?
>>>
>>
>>Presumably, supply wise, the same as a mom supplementing. Supply would
>>go down per woman, but be the same overall. I think it would be more
>>likely to work if the split was consistant,with one woman doing days and
>>the other nights, or some such. Or alternating feeds.
>>
>>Has it ever been done?
>>
>>Dawn
>>
>
>
> My sister and her gf are considering having a baby and this is something
> they would most likely be interested in doing. I would *gusss* that between
> 2 moms taking suppliments and probably pumping on top of bf'ing there would
> be plenty to go around as long as there aren't extentuating cirumstances.

I don't see why there wouldn't be, even without supplements and pumping.
EAch mom would just produce what the baby takes from her, and between
the two the baby would be fed. I don't know that each mom would produce
as much as if she were solely feeding, but I suspect not.

*g* certainly would shake up the lactation consultant trying to get TWO
women latching the same baby, wouldn't it? :-)

Actually, I really think having two women lactating for one baby would
be ideal....basically the benefits of a DH or other non-lactating
partner taking over some feeds, without nipple confusion, formula or
pumping hassles. (curious now...would teh baby swap easily, if the
women's breasts/nipples were quite different? or would there be an
equivalent to nipple confusion (I suppose REAL nipple confusion...))
>
> Jen
> *who has 4 sisters of which the ONLY one who is responsible is a lesbian
> LOL*

NO idea why you added that. It's actually kind of offensive. I certainly
don't see that lesbians being responsible would be surprising or
notable. Peoples is peoples, and I'm sure there are responsible and
irresponsible people regardeless of their partner preference.
>
>

Dawn, intrigued now by the advantages of "a pair and a spare" ;-))

[Belphoebe]

"Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
news:7IJib.88970$pl3.79884@pd7tw3no...

> Dawn, intrigued now by the advantages of "a pair and a spare" ;-))

Yeah, this has crossed my mind in fatigue-laden moments when I've thought,
"If only DH could lactate!" ;)

Belphoebe

[badgirl]

"Dawn Lawson" > wrote > > Jen wrote
> > *who has 4 sisters of which the ONLY one who is responsible is a lesbian
> > LOL*
>
> NO idea why you added that. It's actually kind of offensive. I certainly
> don't see that lesbians being responsible would be surprising or
> notable. Peoples is peoples, and I'm sure there are responsible and
> irresponsible people regardeless of their partner preference.
> >


Not meant to be offensive. Matter of fact I find it awesome that she IS so
responsible. Her background isn't exactly pristine (not that I had included
that in the first post) She has really come a long way in the last 10 years
and I honestly wish the younger three of my 4 sisters had followed suit.
Unfortunately two of those younger three I have complained about right here
in this very newsgroup ;( They both have 2 young children, one of them was
doing drugs while pregnant and bf'ing and was homeless for a couple of
months this summer (not for lack of me offering her a place to be, she just
didn't want to be here) and the other one didn't bf her first at all and
quit with the second so she could go back to work because she didn't *want*
to be there even though she was still living with my parents at I think it
was 3 months (the baby was a premie too and could have benefitted extremely
if momma had kept going) The youngest one however hasn't started on the road
of babies yet and I sincerely hope she doesn't for a LOOOONG time. I guess
my comment was more of a personal thought than an in general comment.

Jen

[New York Jen]

why would the lesbian NOT be the responsible one?


"badgirl" > wrote in message
news:ZeEib.552933$Oz4.500922@rwcrnsc54...
>
> "Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
> news:m8Dib.85509$6C4.819@pd7tw1no...
> >
> >
> > Sara wrote:
> >
> > >>Phoebe & Allyson wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Pediatrician
> > >>>suggested inducing lactation in other mom, who didn't go for it.
> > >
> > >
> > > I was thinking about this. How would it work? I think of nursing as a
> > > one-to-one relationship (unless there are twins, etc. of course).
> > > Wouldn't the supply be thrown off if the baby nursed part of the time
> > > with one mom, and part of the time with the other?
> > >
> >
> > Presumably, supply wise, the same as a mom supplementing. Supply would
> > go down per woman, but be the same overall. I think it would be more
> > likely to work if the split was consistant,with one woman doing days and
> > the other nights, or some such. Or alternating feeds.
> >
> > Has it ever been done?
> >
> > Dawn
> >
>
> My sister and her gf are considering having a baby and this is something
> they would most likely be interested in doing. I would *gusss* that
between
> 2 moms taking suppliments and probably pumping on top of bf'ing there
would
> be plenty to go around as long as there aren't extentuating cirumstances.
>
> Jen
> *who has 4 sisters of which the ONLY one who is responsible is a lesbian
> LOL*
>
>

[Lucy]

"New York Jen" > wrote in message
. net...
> why would the lesbian NOT be the responsible one?
>
>
> "badgirl" > wrote in message
> news:ZeEib.552933$Oz4.500922@rwcrnsc54...
> > Jen
> > *who has 4 sisters of which the ONLY one who is responsible is a lesbian
> > LOL*

I don't think Jen was implying that lesbians are irresponsible, but more
that the lesbian would be the least likely to have children, and yet is the
one who would make a better parent. Or maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Not that I'm saying that as a lesbian she can't or won't have children (and
Jen said that she is considering it) but more that it's seems less common
for homosexual couples to have children than heterosexual couples.

Lucy

[New York Jen]

You're probably right, I just wasn't reading "responsible" as "good
parent" - guess it was just context...


"Lucy" > wrote in message
...
> "New York Jen" > wrote in message
> . net...
> > why would the lesbian NOT be the responsible one?
> >
> >
> > "badgirl" > wrote in message
> > news:ZeEib.552933$Oz4.500922@rwcrnsc54...
> > > Jen
> > > *who has 4 sisters of which the ONLY one who is responsible is a
lesbian
> > > LOL*
>
> I don't think Jen was implying that lesbians are irresponsible, but more
> that the lesbian would be the least likely to have children, and yet is
the
> one who would make a better parent. Or maybe I'm reading it wrong.
>
> Not that I'm saying that as a lesbian she can't or won't have children
(and
> Jen said that she is considering it) but more that it's seems less common
> for homosexual couples to have children than heterosexual couples.
>
> Lucy
>
>

[badgirl]

"Lucy" > wrote in message
...
> "New York Jen" > wrote in message
> . net...
> > why would the lesbian NOT be the responsible one?
> >
> >
> > "badgirl" > wrote in message
> > news:ZeEib.552933$Oz4.500922@rwcrnsc54...
> > > Jen
> > > *who has 4 sisters of which the ONLY one who is responsible is a
lesbian
> > > LOL*
>
> I don't think Jen was implying that lesbians are irresponsible,

Nope, not at all ;)

but more
> that the lesbian would be the least likely to have children, and yet is
the
> one who would make a better parent.


Only that *my* lesbian would have been least likely to have children or be a
responsible parent...but now that her life has so drastically changed she IS
better ;)

Or maybe I'm reading it wrong.
>
> Not that I'm saying that as a lesbian she can't or won't have children
(and
> Jen said that she is considering it) but more that it's seems less common
> for homosexual couples to have children than heterosexual couples.
>
> Lucy
>
>

Exactly ;) Sort of LOL ;)

NAK
Jen