What could be causing this? Opinions please...

[Kathy]

For the past 24 hours or so, our DD (4 weeks tomorrow, exclusively
bf'ed) has been behaving differently than usual. I'm worried about her
and wondering what might be causing this...ANY opinions are welcome.

She has had VERY bad gas and has been pooping a lot...about 1/2 of the
time with some green mixed into the ordinary yellow, seedy stuff. Every
time I nurse her she passes LOUD gas (it startles both of us sometimes)
and has a very audible watery sounding bowel movement. I have tried
Mylicon drops and a lot of burping which hasn't seemed to help.

She constantly wants to be held by me and nursed, as if this is a growth
spurt, however I don't think it is. If I try to put her down she cries,
shakes her head back and forth frantically while chewing and sucking on
her fingers, fists and arms. She acts as though she is starving, but I
latch her on and she only nurses for seconds at a time...she keeps
pulling off, chewing the nipple, having a very hard time latching
(shaking head back and forth, putting fingers in mouth instead of my
nipple, etc). Once she does nurse a little she ends up filling her
diaper and getting upset.

In addition to this she has gotten very little sleep over the past 24
hours. Last night we couldn't get her settled at all in her crib...she
did sleep on and off in bed with me for a little while, but was very
restless, up and down. She kept trying to latch on and then doing more
of the behaviors described above. Now she is so overtired that I can't
get her to sleep at all...have tried everything...nursing, rocking, car
ride etc. If she does fall asleep it is in my arms...after a good
amount of time if I try to set her down (even just next to me or on my
belly) she immediately wakes up and cries.

Normally she has her fussy times...but she also naps and then has
periods where she is content, alert and happy. She's had none of that
over the past 24 hours...hasn't been happy at all.

She has no fever, and is wetting enough diapers as well as doing a ton
of poops.

Any ideas what this could be? A virus or bug of some sort? Colic? A
growth spurt? Something in my diet? I take no medications other than a
multivitamin. I don't drink alcohol or smoke.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give...
Kathy

[New York Jen]

"Kathy" > wrote in message
...
>
> For the past 24 hours or so, our DD (4 weeks tomorrow, exclusively
> bf'ed) has been behaving differently than usual. I'm worried about her
> and wondering what might be causing this...ANY opinions are welcome.
>
> She has had VERY bad gas and has been pooping a lot...about 1/2 of the
> time with some green mixed into the ordinary yellow, seedy stuff. Every
> time I nurse her she passes LOUD gas (it startles both of us sometimes)
> and has a very audible watery sounding bowel movement. I have tried
> Mylicon drops and a lot of burping which hasn't seemed to help.
>
> She constantly wants to be held by me and nursed, as if this is a growth
> spurt, however I don't think it is. If I try to put her down she cries,
> shakes her head back and forth frantically while chewing and sucking on
> her fingers, fists and arms. She acts as though she is starving, but I
> latch her on and she only nurses for seconds at a time...she keeps
> pulling off, chewing the nipple, having a very hard time latching
> (shaking head back and forth, putting fingers in mouth instead of my
> nipple, etc). Once she does nurse a little she ends up filling her
> diaper and getting upset.
>
> In addition to this she has gotten very little sleep over the past 24
> hours. Last night we couldn't get her settled at all in her crib...she
> did sleep on and off in bed with me for a little while, but was very
> restless, up and down. She kept trying to latch on and then doing more
> of the behaviors described above. Now she is so overtired that I can't
> get her to sleep at all...have tried everything...nursing, rocking, car
> ride etc. If she does fall asleep it is in my arms...after a good
> amount of time if I try to set her down (even just next to me or on my
> belly) she immediately wakes up and cries.
>
> Normally she has her fussy times...but she also naps and then has
> periods where she is content, alert and happy. She's had none of that
> over the past 24 hours...hasn't been happy at all.
>
> She has no fever, and is wetting enough diapers as well as doing a ton
> of poops.
>
> Any ideas what this could be? A virus or bug of some sort? Colic? A
> growth spurt? Something in my diet? I take no medications other than a
> multivitamin. I don't drink alcohol or smoke.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help you can give...
> Kathy


> Sounds like something's making her uncomfortable...could be something in
your diet, could be some sort of virus. Why not stop by the doctor's office
tomorrow and see what they say. Are there any signs of thrush?

Good luck,

Jen

[Cheryl S.]

Kathy > wrote in message
...
> <snip>
> She has had VERY bad gas and has been pooping a lot
> ...about 1/2 of the time with some green mixed into the
> ordinary yellow, seedy stuff. Every time I nurse her she
> passes LOUD gas (it startles both of us sometimes) and
> has a very audible watery sounding bowel movement. I
> have tried Mylicon drops and a lot of burping which hasn't
> seemed to help.
>
> She constantly wants to be held by me and nursed, as if
> this is a growth spurt, however I don't think it is. If I try
> to put her down she cries, shakes her head back and forth
> frantically while chewing and sucking on her fingers, fists
> and arms. She acts as though she is starving, but I latch her
> on and she only nurses for seconds at a time...she keeps
> pulling off, chewing the nipple, having a very hard time latching
> (shaking head back and forth, putting fingers in mouth instead
> of my nipple, etc). Once she does nurse a little she ends up
> filling her diaper and getting upset. <snip>
> She has no fever, and is wetting enough diapers as well as
> doing a ton of poops.

I think she isn't hungry, that's why she keeps pulling off and chewing
her fists instead. Babies are not very clever. Her thought process (if
you can call it that) is probably something like:

I'm uncomfortable. I want to suck.
<you put her to breast>
I'm getting MILK. I'm already full. Waaaaah!!!
<you take her off breast>
I'm uncomfortable. I want to suck.

etc.

The frequent, short nursings are probably giving her a lot of foremilk,
which contributes to being gassy and having green poop. Either keep
offering the same breast for at least two hours, or give her something
else to suck on - your finger or hers, or a pacifier - until she really
is hungry and nurses well, so that she gets down to the hindmilk. DS is
still going through the gassy phase now too. Remember they've never had
a body before. They're just noticing all kinds of new sensations and
most of them are unpleasant at this stage. Soon they'll figure out the
pooping thing and move on to more fun things, like that they have hands.
:-) Hang in there, it doesn't sound like anything's wrong with her to
me.
--
Cheryl S.
Mom to Julie, 2 yr., 6 mo.
And Jaden, 5 weeks

Cleaning the house while your children are small is like
shoveling the sidewalk while it's still snowing.

[Kathy]

Cheryl S. wrote:

>The frequent, short nursings are probably
>giving her a lot of foremilk, which
>contributes to being gassy and having
>green poop. Either keep offering the same
>breast for at least two hours, or give her
>something else to suck on - your finger or
>hers, or a pacifier - until she really is
>hungry and nurses well, so that she gets
>down to the hindmilk.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I was wondering how all of these super
short, frequent nursings might be effecting her. In fact a lot of times
it seems like she nurses like crazy for 30 seconds, swallows down a lot
of the thin milk and then it goes right through her...I hear it sort of
hitting her stomach and running through her body, and then she poops
right away.

Last night I gave her a pacifier and put her in the cradle nursing
position, with the her tummy against mine. I sort of held the pacifier
in her mouth by putting it against my body on my breast. That seemed to
soothe her for quite a while, and maybe gave her the sensation that she
was nursing without really doing it or getting any milk.

So I think there's a lot of truth to what you said...I will try what you
said and offer the same breast for longer, as well as the pacifier.

Thanks a lot! And also thanks for your feeling that there is nothing
wrong with her...that makes me feel much better.

Kathy

[Charlotte Millington]

(Kathy) wrote in message >...
> For the past 24 hours or so, our DD (4 weeks tomorrow, exclusively
> bf'ed) has been behaving differently than usual. I'm worried about her
> and wondering what might be causing this...ANY opinions are welcome.

<description of stuff snipped>

From what you're saying, it could be any number of things. What I
would do is look at three main things:

You say there is some greenish poo, but I enthusiastically snipped you
rpost before I could see what else you had to say about it, so I'll
just add some notes. Is the poo foamy or watery? Is it seedy or
mucousy? Watery green poo is a virus, as is mucousy green poo. Foamy
(frothy) is a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance.

In addition to the great poo examination, I'd also look at your
nipples and at his diaper area. If he has a diaper rash or a red bum,
you may both have thrush. Things to look out for on that is achiness
radiating into your armpit, plus sore or reddish nipples. Thrush can
cause a little farting machine in a baby, along with greenish, loose
stool.

So, there you go. Hope this helps!

Charlotte

[Kathy]

Charlotte wrote:

>Is it seedy or mucousy? Watery green poo
>is a virus, as is mucousy green poo.
>Foamy (frothy) is a foremilk/hindmilk
>imbalance.

I would describe it as seedy and green. It looks just like the
mustardy-yellow, seedy poo, but it's green (the color of cooked
spinach). I haven't seen anything that I would describe as foamy/frothy
or mucousy. I'm not sure about watery, as her poo has always been very
loose.

>If he has a diaper rash or a red bum, you
>may both have thrush. Things to look out
>for on that is achiness radiating into your
>armpit, plus sore or reddish nipples.
>Thrush can cause a little farting machine
>in a baby, along with greenish, loose
>stool.

No diaper rash or red bum, except for one day where she did have some
redness on the butt that disappeared after a few treatments with
desitin. That was about 1 week ago.

I do have slightly sore, pinkish nipples...however they have been that
way since I started to bf. I actually met with a LC this past weekend
and it seems that while my latch isn't horrible (no terrible pain,
cracking or bleeding and dd is gaining weight fine) it isn't great
either. She's not been taking the "mouthful" that she should and sucks
mainly on the nipple and only a small bit of the areola...so we're
trying to work on that, but it's rough as she never did learn to open
her mouth wide. The soreness/redness on the nipples is what I would
call mild.

No pain radiating to the armpits, though I have had a pain on the breast
sort of near the right armpit...I've been attributing that to a duct
that's not getting emptied well enough, as well as soreness from my bra
sort of pushing on that area when I use the side lying position.

I will keep all of these symptoms in mind though and watch for them. We
have her 1 month WBV tomorrow, so I will address some of this with her
pediatrician.

A question: Do most bf'ing women end up with thrush or mastitis or a
plugged duct, etc at some point during bf'ing? Am I destined to end up
with one of these?

Thanks again for your help...
Kathy

[Cheryl S.]

Kathy > wrote in message
...
> A question: Do most bf'ing women end up with thrush
> or mastitis or a plugged duct, etc at some point during
> bf'ing? Am I destined to end up with one of these?

I can't say how common those things are but I can tell you I never had
any of them wjile bf DD, for 14 months. Being prompt to treat a plugged
duct, if you do get one, should prevent mastitis. I startd to get a
plugged duct a couplke weeks ago but was able to resolve it with no
difficulty following the advice in _Nursing Mother's Companion_. I was
told at the birth center, a plugged duct is more common with 2nd+
babies.
--
Cheryl S. (oht)
Mom to Julie, 2 yr., 6 mo.
And Jaden, 1 month

Cleaning the house while your children are small is like
shoveling the sidewalk while it's still snowing.

[Mary W.]

Kathy wrote:

> A question: Do most bf'ing women end up with thrush or mastitis or a
> plugged duct, etc at some point during bf'ing? Am I destined to end up
> with one of these?

I had thrush a couple of times. I stopped getting it when I started using
disposable breast pads! I also got a couple of plugged ducts but those
were both at work- I was pumping and I expect the pump just didn't
clear the ducts those days. DD was able to clear them at home. No
mastitis.

Mary

[Tatjana Pantic]

Kathy wrote:

>A question: Do most bf'ing women end up with thrush or mastitis or a
>plugged duct, etc at some point during bf'ing? Am I destined to end up
>with one of these?

With my first (I only bfed her for 3 months) never had thrush,
mastitis or a plugged duct, only cracked bleeding nipples for a few
weeks. Same with my second baby (and I'm bfing him for close to 5
months now).

--

Tanja

Mommy to Tamara (27 Dec 1998) and
Stefan (19 May 2003)

[Charlotte Millington]

(Kathy) wrote in message >...

> I would describe it as seedy and green. It looks just like the
> mustardy-yellow, seedy poo, but it's green (the color of cooked
> spinach). I haven't seen anything that I would describe as foamy/frothy
> or mucousy. I'm not sure about watery, as her poo has always been very
> loose.

Seedy and spinach... sounds a lot like a virus to me. Often a
foremilk/hindmilk imbalance is pretty noteable because the poo looks
like something is fermenting. (Actually, it is lactose fermenting.) If
it is a virus, it will pass in a few days.

How long has this been going on? <Note to self: snipping is not always
helpful.>

> No diaper rash or red bum, except for one day where she did have some
> redness on the butt that disappeared after a few treatments with
> desitin. That was about 1 week ago.

Here's a question: how did the diaper rash coincide with the green
poo? Any correlation in time?

> I do have slightly sore, pinkish nipples...however they have been that
> way since I started to bf. I actually met with a LC this past weekend
> and it seems that while my latch isn't horrible (no terrible pain,
> cracking or bleeding and dd is gaining weight fine) it isn't great
> either. She's not been taking the "mouthful" that she should and sucks
> mainly on the nipple and only a small bit of the areola...so we're
> trying to work on that, but it's rough as she never did learn to open
> her mouth wide. The soreness/redness on the nipples is what I would
> call mild.

Ugh. What a pain. That is never a quick fix, so good for you for
persevering.

> No pain radiating to the armpits, though I have had a pain on the breast
> sort of near the right armpit...I've been attributing that to a duct
> that's not getting emptied well enough, as well as soreness from my bra
> sort of pushing on that area when I use the side lying position.

FWIW, a duct that isn't draining well is often part and parcel with
thrush. Keep an eye on it and try to massage it out.

> I will keep all of these symptoms in mind though and watch for them. We
> have her 1 month WBV tomorrow, so I will address some of this with her
> pediatrician.

Good idea. Ask the LC as well because she may have some additional
insights.

> A question: Do most bf'ing women end up with thrush or mastitis or a
> plugged duct, etc at some point during bf'ing? Am I destined to end up
> with one of these?

I don't know that I could say "most" too comfortably, but I would say
that many women do. A number of factors play in there, like stress and
diet. Basically, my experience says that if you do get thrush or
mastitis, it's your body's way of saying, "Slow down. Sleep with the
baby. Eat better." My guesstimate would be that most women have a
super easy breastfeeding relationship, but they tend not to come to La
Leche League meetings or post on MKB because they don't need the
support. That's not to say that they never come, it is to say that
because they don't need LLL or MKB, they don't always seek it out.

> Thanks again for your help...

You're welcome! Good luck.

Charlotte

[Cheryl S.]

Charlotte Millington > wrote in message
om...
> > (Kathy) wrote in message
> > >...
> Seedy and spinach... sounds a lot like a virus to me. Often
> a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance is pretty noteable because the
> poo looks like something is fermenting. (Actually, it is lactose
> fermenting.) If it is a virus, it will pass in a few days.

Question for Charlotte: if it's a virus, would the poop be *always*
green and mucousy/watery, or could a virus cause that type poop only
some of the time? DS has had poops that look like that, but no more
than one per day. Usually I can think back to a nursing in the past few
hours where I could imagine he got mostly foremilk.

> > No pain radiating to the armpits, though I have had a pain
> > on the breast sort of near the right armpit...I've been
> > attributing that to a duct that's not getting emptied well
> > enough, as well as soreness from my bra
> > sort of pushing on that area when I use the side lying position.
>
> FWIW, a duct that isn't draining well is often part and parcel with
> thrush. Keep an eye on it and try to massage it out.

I had the same thing Kathy described and it was because I wasn't getting
the fabric of my sleep bra pushed far enough off and it put pressure on
the side of my breast/underarm while nursing, preventing the ducts there
from emptying well. Extra nursing on that side, and massage while
nursing and after a hot shower, cured it. Now I pull the strap all the
way off my arm, so that side of the bra is completely down, and the
problem has stayed away.

Kathy, have you noticed any white patches in DD's mouth or on your
nipples? I believe that is the hallmark of thrush. (?)

> > I will keep all of these symptoms in mind though and watch for
> > them. We have her 1 month WBV tomorrow, so I will address
> > some of this with her pediatrician.

What did the pediatrician say?
--
Cheryl S.
Mom to Julie, 2 yr., 6 mo.
And Jaden, 1 month

Cleaning the house while your children are small is like
shoveling the sidewalk while it's still snowing.

[Kathy]

Cheryl S. wrote:

>I had the same thing Kathy described >and
>it was because I wasn't getting the fabric
>of my sleep bra pushed far enough off and
>it put pressure on the side of my
>breast/underarm while nursing, >preventing
>the ducts there from emptying well.

I've had the feeling that maybe that's what is going on with me too...my
nursing bras really aren't all that comfortable, and when I'm in a hurry
I shove the flap down, leaving some pushing on the side of my breast
(especially if I'm nursing laying down). I've tried to be more careful
about that lately.

>Kathy, have you noticed any white
>patches in DD's mouth or on your
>nipples? I believe that is the hallmark of
>thrush. (?)

I gave my DD's mouth a good looking over today when she was crying, and
no...no white marks. Nipples look fine too. I'll keep my eye out for
any white spots though.

>What did your pediatrician say?

[Kathy]

Ooops, hit send before I was ready...

Cheryl S. asked: What did your pediatrician say? (About the green
poop)

I'm almost afraid to say this, because I know it might cause a
controversy here...but my pediatrician said that the green poops are
perfectly normal and not to worry about them. She said yellow, brown,
green...all normal.

We chose my ped. because she was very pro-breastfeeding and we really
like her. That doesn't mean that I will take everything she says as
gospel, but I have to say I did feel relieved to hear her say that I
didn't need to worry so much about the green poop.

Just as a side note, before becoming a mom I had no idea how many times
I'd be saying or typing the words "green poop"!

Back to the ped...she basically said that what dd is going through is
just a phase that a lot of babies go through, and unfortunately there's
not a lot that can be done about it. She just happens to be going
through a fussy, difficult time right now and I've got to be patient.

Speaking of which, she's up again...
Have a good day everyone...
Kathy

[Charlotte Millington]

"Cheryl S." > wrote in message >...

> Question for Charlotte: if it's a virus, would the poop be *always*
> green and mucousy/watery, or could a virus cause that type poop only
> some of the time? DS has had poops that look like that, but no more
> than one per day. Usually I can think back to a nursing in the past few
> hours where I could imagine he got mostly foremilk.

I have to say I would be very reluctant to say anything in terms of
100%, but, yes, a virus would be more likely to cause that particular
brand of poo in pretty much all of the poopy diapers until the virus
has run its course. For once a day, periodically, it could be any
number of factors.

It's kind of like when you get a cold. You'll blow mucous at every
single nose blow until the cold has run its course. After that, you
may only have to blow your nose when you are around pollen or when you
clean behind the couch. Your nose blowing, or in this case, green poo,
is aggravated by something unique, rather than by a virus that has to
run its course.

Charlotte