Screaming baby -- help for Noah, please

[Lorraine]

Just when I finally weaned myself from this lurking this newsgroup for helping my
daughter and granddaughter with nursing issues, along comes Noah. Noah is my
daughter's nephew-- my son-in-law's sister is his mom.

Noah was born October 1st, caesarian after 36 hours of induced labor. Mom was
given Pitocin and Cytotec to induce. The reason for inducing was Mom's elevated
blood pressure.

Noah was sort of a lazy nurser from the beginning. He had trouble latching and
they were using an SNS and syringes for feeding. There was talk of inverted
nipples being a possible problem early on, and I'm not really sure what became of
that. The hospital lactation consultant told his mom not to worry about nipple
shields -- Noah would just have to adjust. (??)

So Noah is 12 days old now, and they have gotten him to latch on, but he is still
getting formula supplementation via syringe -- about 40cc a day. He is now gaining
weight. He had jaundice, but that has been cleared up. Mom is currently taking
Percoset for pain, and Prozac for depression issues. She has been complaining of
hot flashes, and she goes from hot to cold often throughout the day.

Noah's problem now starts about 6pm every night. When they sit down to
breastfeed, Noah latches on, but pulls off within a minute and begins the crying
and screaming thing. He doesn't appear to be choking. Mom has switched from
football hold to cradle hold and that made no difference. She has had luck of
getting him to latch and stay latched in the evening when he has fallen asleep,
and she latches him on during REM. However, getting him to sleep is not an easy
task at that point either.

Mom did go to a breastfeeding clinic staffed by consultants that I thought really
helped my daughter often when she was nursing. They thought there might be reflux
issues. Noah actually did the pull off and scream thing while he was there. He
also spit up milk shortly after. Mom says he has spit up probably around 10 times
all together in his 12 days. Moving him to an upright position does not seem to
help him.

So does anyone have any ideas to help? I've considered overactive letdown, but he
doesn't really appear to be getting too much. I've also considered that he is
still a lazy nurser and doesn't want to work that hard for a meal since it happens
at a time when milk production is normally slow. He refuses bottles (way to go,
Noah!) but Dad does take over with the syringe after Mom reaches the end of her
rope.

What more should we look for regarding acid reflux? I'm going to be doing some
searches of my own, but if anyone knows good sites for reflux and breastfeeding,
I'd appreciate your input. Mom is getting near to giving up, and I think just one
person telling her that formula would be better with reflux will push her over the
edge right now. She's trying really hard, but she's getting so depressed about
the whole situation, and she's just a week away from a growth spurt.

As always, thank you so much for your help.

Lorraine
Grandma to Madison (2-17-00)
Friend of Noah (10-1-03)

--
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[Lorraine]

I just spoke with my daughter again, and came up with a couple of clarifications.

Noah's mom ignored the advice from the lactation consultant to not use shields.
She did buy some and they have helped him to latch on better. She has also been
pumping a bit before trying to latch him on to draw out her nipples and also
thinking it would help him get to the hindmilk and put on more weight.

Thanks,
Lorraine

[Bruce and Jeanne]

"Lorraine" > wrote in message
...
[snip]
>
> Mom did go to a breastfeeding clinic staffed by consultants that I thought
really
> helped my daughter often when she was nursing. They thought there might
be reflux
> issues. Noah actually did the pull off and scream thing while he was
there. He
> also spit up milk shortly after. Mom says he has spit up probably around
10 times
> all together in his 12 days. Moving him to an upright position does not
seem to
> help him.
>
> So does anyone have any ideas to help? I've considered overactive
letdown, but he
> doesn't really appear to be getting too much. I've also considered that
he is
> still a lazy nurser and doesn't want to work that hard for a meal since it
happens
> at a time when milk production is normally slow. He refuses bottles (way
to go,
> Noah!) but Dad does take over with the syringe after Mom reaches the end
of her
> rope.
>
> What more should we look for regarding acid reflux?

DS was diagnosed with reflux recently at 4 months. We didn't really know
what was going on but after one horrendous night we called the pediatrician.
Here are DS' symptons:
He would nurse for about a minute or two, then arch his back, pull off and
cry. He had spit up about once or twice a day, but it was never very much
and never projectile vomiting so I didn't really worry about it. Lastly, he
lost weight.

For the most part, our pediatrician doesn't like prescribing drugs for
reflux, but since DS had lost weight and was definitely nursing less, he
did.

I adjusted the nursing position so DS is more upright while nursing, and he
currently sleeps in the infant carrier so he's more upright. Since the
medicine, he nurses more calmly I noticed. Before he would basically suck as
much as he could and "gulp" down the milk. He also pulls off less often and
he no longer cries when he does. It took about a week of treatment before
he did this.

Good luck,
Jeanne

[Lorraine]

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:14:34 -0400, "Bruce and Jeanne" >
wrote:


>Here are DS' symptons:
>He would nurse for about a minute or two, then arch his back, pull off and
>cry. He had spit up about once or twice a day, but it was never very much
>and never projectile vomiting so I didn't really worry about it. Lastly, he
>lost weight

This sort of sounds like Noah. He wasn't putting weight back on like they wanted,
but then part of that was due to latch issues that have since been resolved.

>
>For the most part, our pediatrician doesn't like prescribing drugs for
>reflux, but since DS had lost weight and was definitely nursing less, he
>did.

That sounds pretty common from the reading I've done since yesterday.

>
>I adjusted the nursing position so DS is more upright while nursing, and he
>currently sleeps in the infant carrier so he's more upright.

Oh, thanks! We hadn't thought of the infant carrier. I'll pass that on.

>Since the
>medicine, he nurses more calmly I noticed. Before he would basically suck as
>much as he could and "gulp" down the milk. He also pulls off less often and
>he no longer cries when he does. It took about a week of treatment before
>he did this.

I'm glad things got better for the all of you. This sounds encouraging. Thanks
for the info and I'll pass it on to Noah's mom.

Thanks,
Lorraine

[P. G. Chavez]

Lorraine wrote and I snipped:
>
> Noah's problem now starts about 6pm every night. When they sit down to
> breastfeed, Noah latches on, but pulls off within a minute and begins the crying
> and screaming thing. He doesn't appear to be choking. Mom has switched from
> football hold to cradle hold and that made no difference. She has had luck of
> getting him to latch and stay latched in the evening when he has fallen asleep,
> and she latches him on during REM. However, getting him to sleep is not an easy
> task at that point either.

Couldn't it just be that evening witching hour (or three)? I don't mean
"just" as in it's no big deal to handle, but my advice would be the
things you do for a colicky baby. A vibrating bouncy seat (or seat on
the dryer). A drive with Dad. Walking around, singing. Soft music.
Change of scenery, maybe go outside. Turn on the vacuum cleaner.

If everything else is going well, that could be it. This other post of
yours, however, bothers me a bit.

> I've also considered that he is
> still a lazy nurser and doesn't want to work that hard for a meal since it happens
> at a time when milk production is normally slow. He refuses bottles (way to go,
> Noah!) but Dad does take over with the syringe after Mom reaches the end of her
> rope.

Could he have "syringe preference"? If they really need to supplement,
maybe in the evening after his fussy jag isn't the best time. It
teaches him that he'll get more in his tummy (if that's what he wants),
if he holds out long enough. And, this practice is doing nothing to
increase Mom's production at the time of day when, as you said,
production is slow.

Is Mom taking an afternoon nap, too? She'll be better able to handle
all this if she's had some rest, something to eat, and plenty to drink.
It could really be part of Noah's newborn phase.

I wish her well,
-Patty, mom to Corinne [Mar-98] and Nathan [May-00]
and stepmom to Victoria [Apr-90]

[[email protected]]

Lorraine > wrote:

> Noah's problem now starts about 6pm every night. When they sit down to
> breastfeed, Noah latches on, but pulls off within a minute and begins the crying
> and screaming thing. He doesn't appear to be choking. Mom has switched from
> football hold to cradle hold and that made no difference. She has had luck of
> getting him to latch and stay latched in the evening when he has fallen asleep,
> and she latches him on during REM. However, getting him to sleep is not an easy
> task at that point either.

My baby did this (and still does), too. We've finally figured out that
with our son it's not any medical issue, it's just that's he too sleepy to
eat. He gets frustrated because he's so tired. I used to worry when he'd
take a late evening nap because I thought he'd screw up his sleep
schedule, but now I'm glad when he does because I know his before-bed
feedings will be much more pleasant. Usually, when he does this, I rock
him and let him doze for a while. He'll usually wake up in a short while
(maybe 20 minutes) in a much better mood and not totally awake and then
he'll eat happily and fall back asleep. I don't know if that will help you
any, but our BF relationship is much better for it. I was seriously
traumatized by him screaming at my breast until I realized it was just
because he was a sad, sleepy baby and he didn't hate my breast. :)

Manda