Intro and thrush question

[Gorgon Park]

Hello, I have been lurking here for quite some time now, and now that I have
a 4 day old nursing infant, I find I already have a question.

During my labour, I had to have antibiotics (due to GBS+). Could thrush be
appearing this early? I have noticed yesterday and today that when I apply
some Lansinoh after feedings, that my nipples seem to burn and that it lasts
for a few minutes after I re-cover them. Could this just be related to
nipple soreness or is it definately a symptom of thrush? DD is feeding well
and is starting to re-gain, so I am not really concerned for her at this
point.

I have Googled some of the old posts about thrush on this newsgroup, and I
will try some of the suggestions. DDs first well baby visit is Friday.
Should I wait until then to discuss my concerns with the doctor, or should I
make a separate appt as soon as possible?

Thanks for any help,
Stacey

[news.eclipse.co.uk]

"Gorgon Park" > wrote in message
...
> Hello, I have been lurking here for quite some time now, and now that I
have
> a 4 day old nursing infant, I find I already have a question.
>
> During my labour, I had to have antibiotics (due to GBS+). Could thrush
be
> appearing this early? I have noticed yesterday and today that when I
apply
> some Lansinoh after feedings, that my nipples seem to burn and that it
lasts
> for a few minutes after I re-cover them. Could this just be related to
> nipple soreness or is it definately a symptom of thrush? DD is feeding
well
> and is starting to re-gain, so I am not really concerned for her at this
> point.
>
> I have Googled some of the old posts about thrush on this newsgroup, and I
> will try some of the suggestions. DDs first well baby visit is Friday.
> Should I wait until then to discuss my concerns with the doctor, or should
I
> make a separate appt as soon as possible?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Stacey

Hi

Why are you using Lansinoh? If you have sore nipples, please see a lactation
consultant as soon as possible in order to get your positioning right. Only
cracked nipples need this kind of help from a cream, sore or healthy nipples
should be left cream and ointment free. Are you maybe allergic to the
lansinoh?

I think you'd have more signs if thrush were the problem. Check baby's
mouth, in fact I'm not repeating myself please go to
http://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/information/thrush.html and read all
about the proper signs of thrush in your self and baby, and appropriate
treatments, should this occur.

It's quite normal to have uncomfortable nipple sensation while you get used
to breastfeeding, if it's really sore, particularly when baby goes on, as I
said please work on your positioning and let me know if I can help.

Regards
Nikki

[Gorgon Park]

<snip>
> Hi
>
> Why are you using Lansinoh? If you have sore nipples, please see a
lactation
> consultant as soon as possible in order to get your positioning right.
Only
> cracked nipples need this kind of help from a cream, sore or healthy
nipples
> should be left cream and ointment free. Are you maybe allergic to the
> lansinoh?
>
> I think you'd have more signs if thrush were the problem. Check baby's
> mouth, in fact I'm not repeating myself please go to
> http://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/information/thrush.html and read
all
> about the proper signs of thrush in your self and baby, and appropriate
> treatments, should this occur.
>
> It's quite normal to have uncomfortable nipple sensation while you get
used
> to breastfeeding, if it's really sore, particularly when baby goes on, as
I
> said please work on your positioning and let me know if I can help.
>
> Regards
> Nikki
>
>

Hi Nikki, thanks for your reply. I think that I probably do need to work on
her latch a bit. When my nipple comes out of her mouth is it flat on one
side with a ridge over the top. I can remember people on here posting about
it, but I can't remember what the solution is. We have been using the
cross-cradle hold, and she is fairly straight across my body, tummy to
tummy. She seems to take a large part of the areola, so I assumed that she
was taking a bit enough mouthful. I have been unlatching and relatching her
several times on the sore-est side, but it doesn't seem to be helping.

As I said before, I am not really worried about her, she is gaining well and
has plenty of wet and dirty diapers.

The health nurse has been by and doesn't seem to think there is anything
wrong with her latch. Today, the soreness in one nipple is much worse, and
it looks like she is sucking the skin off the end of my nipple. When my
nipple air-dries, it looks bruised on the end. Yesterday it was better, but
today it is worse. I don't notice much pain when she goes on the breast,
but by the time she comes off, it is getting quite uncomfortable.

I have the number of a lactation consultant, and I will give a call, but any
addition help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Stacey

[news.eclipse.co.uk]

"Gorgon Park" > wrote in message
...
>> Hi Nikki, thanks for your reply. I think that I probably do need to work
on
> her latch a bit. When my nipple comes out of her mouth is it flat on one
> side with a ridge over the top.

Can you explain which breast and where the flatness occurs? Ie, left breast,
flat on the left side... However from what you're saying, it is likely a
positioning issue - the nipple should appear fully rounded if elongated
evenly when removed from the baby's mouth.

I can remember people on here posting about
> it, but I can't remember what the solution is. We have been using the
> cross-cradle hold, and she is fairly straight across my body, tummy to
> tummy.

The thing might be to try what position she is in horizontally. Even with
all of the classes saying 'nose to nipple' most women I've personally seen
will still often have the baby's head too far towards the arm next to the
breast.

Think about when you are drinking. You tip your head right back and have
your head in line with your body. Try tucking your chin into your chest and
taking a sip, or turning your head to your shoulder. It's very difficult.
The same applies for the baby.

Lets' take the left breast as example. Hold your baby in your right arm,
keeping up the part you've already said about holding her straight, tummy to
tummy etc. It helps to tuck her legs around your body under your right arm
to keep her really close. But, start her off in the center of your chest, in
your cleavage. Then move her horizontally across your body to the left,
moving her nose towards your left nipple. What you want is for her to really
have to reach for the nipple with her mouth wide, but truly reach with her
neck and head, tucking her chin into the breast first (so that her head is
tipping backwards slightly) and then wrapping around the breast.

What can happen is mothers don't make the baby reach enough, so the head
would be almost in the crook of Mom's left elbow, meaning they tuck their
chin into their chest.

She seems to take a large part of the areola, so I assumed that she
> was taking a bit enough mouthful. I have been unlatching and relatching
her
> several times on the sore-est side, but it doesn't seem to be helping.

She's obviously doing great from what you say about her feeding and gaining,
nappies etc. However, it's uncomfortable for you! I wouldn't worry at all
about her particularly, she seems to be doing great, even if the latch isn't
perfect. Which side is the sorest out of interest?
>
> As I said before, I am not really worried about her, she is gaining well
and
> has plenty of wet and dirty diapers.
>
> The health nurse has been by and doesn't seem to think there is anything
> wrong with her latch.

Oh great! Mom is the best decision maker on whether the latch is ok or not.
The general rule is, if it hurts a bit at the start of a feed, but then it
feels absolutely fine once the milk is flowing, then you might have old
nipple damage, but it's unlikely that further damage is occurring. If
however the pain doesn't truly go away at all during a feed, and you're
presenting with further nipple damage daily and your nipples don't appear as
they should, then it is likely the positioning needs a tweak.

In the breastfeeding drop in I help out at (in the UK I'm a Supporter for
the Breastfeeding Network) we have sometimes seen women, and we would have
*sworn* their latch looked great *from the outside*. We're taught if the Mom
is uncomfortable, the latch is the first thing to check. Even a good latch
can be improved.

Today, the soreness in one nipple is much worse, and
> it looks like she is sucking the skin off the end of my nipple. When my
> nipple air-dries, it looks bruised on the end. Yesterday it was better,
but
> today it is worse. I don't notice much pain when she goes on the breast,
> but by the time she comes off, it is getting quite uncomfortable.

As I've said above, this does, to me, indicate an issue. Let me be clear, a
*real* positioning problem - ie quite bad - would eventually end up in
supply problems, or even mastitis. I don't think that's your issue. It
sounds like baby is getting plenty, despite a latch that's probably good,
but could be improved with a little work, to help Mom out if nothing else.
Sore nipples are a risk. Please don't use anything on them if you can help
it, although Lansinoh is the best if you must.
>
> I have the number of a lactation consultant, and I will give a call, but
any
> addition help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Well I hope this helps some. If it doesn't or it's hard to understand then
please let me know, feel free to email me if you need to.

PS Here's 3 links I know on positioning.

http://www.show.scot.nhs.uk/breastfeed/BabyLed/index.html

http://users.erols.com/cindyrn/31.htm

http://www.wiessinger.baka.com/bfing/howworks/latchtalk.html

Cheers
Nikki
>
> Thanks,
> Stacey
>
>

[Gorgon Park]

"news.eclipse.co.uk" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gorgon Park" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Hi Nikki, thanks for your reply. I think that I probably do need to
work
> on
> > her latch a bit. When my nipple comes out of her mouth is it flat on
one
> > side with a ridge over the top.
>
> Can you explain which breast and where the flatness occurs?
For instance, on the right breast, the flatness is on the left side, and
reverse for the left breast. So, the flatness is on my cleavage side.

Ie, left breast,
> flat on the left side... However from what you're saying, it is likely a
> positioning issue - the nipple should appear fully rounded if elongated
> evenly when removed from the baby's mouth.
>
> I can remember people on here posting about
> > it, but I can't remember what the solution is. We have been using the
> > cross-cradle hold, and she is fairly straight across my body, tummy to
> > tummy.
>
> The thing might be to try what position she is in horizontally. Even with
> all of the classes saying 'nose to nipple' most women I've personally seen
> will still often have the baby's head too far towards the arm next to the
> breast.

I think I might be doing this.

>
> Think about when you are drinking. You tip your head right back and have
> your head in line with your body. Try tucking your chin into your chest
and
> taking a sip, or turning your head to your shoulder. It's very difficult.
> The same applies for the baby.
>
> Lets' take the left breast as example. Hold your baby in your right arm,
> keeping up the part you've already said about holding her straight, tummy
to
> tummy etc. It helps to tuck her legs around your body under your right arm
> to keep her really close.

I have been doing this wrong as well. I have been putting her legs around
my arm, as it seemed to give me better control over her. I will tuck her
under and see if that helps as well.

But, start her off in the center of your chest, in
> your cleavage. Then move her horizontally across your body to the left,
> moving her nose towards your left nipple. What you want is for her to
really
> have to reach for the nipple with her mouth wide, but truly reach with her
> neck and head, tucking her chin into the breast first (so that her head is
> tipping backwards slightly) and then wrapping around the breast.

I most likely have been having her too far over to my arm then. I will try
this at her next feeding and see if it helps. Should this fix the flatness
as well?

>
> What can happen is mothers don't make the baby reach enough, so the head
> would be almost in the crook of Mom's left elbow, meaning they tuck their
> chin into their chest.
>
> She seems to take a large part of the areola, so I assumed that she
> > was taking a bit enough mouthful. I have been unlatching and relatching
> her
> > several times on the sore-est side, but it doesn't seem to be helping.
>
> She's obviously doing great from what you say about her feeding and
gaining,
> nappies etc. However, it's uncomfortable for you! I wouldn't worry at all
> about her particularly, she seems to be doing great, even if the latch
isn't
> perfect. Which side is the sorest out of interest?

My left side is the sorest.

> >
> > As I said before, I am not really worried about her, she is gaining well
> and
> > has plenty of wet and dirty diapers.
> >
> > The health nurse has been by and doesn't seem to think there is anything
> > wrong with her latch.
>
> Oh great! Mom is the best decision maker on whether the latch is ok or
not.
> The general rule is, if it hurts a bit at the start of a feed, but then it
> feels absolutely fine once the milk is flowing, then you might have old
> nipple damage, but it's unlikely that further damage is occurring. If
> however the pain doesn't truly go away at all during a feed, and you're
> presenting with further nipple damage daily and your nipples don't appear
as
> they should, then it is likely the positioning needs a tweak.
>
> In the breastfeeding drop in I help out at (in the UK I'm a Supporter for
> the Breastfeeding Network) we have sometimes seen women, and we would have
> *sworn* their latch looked great *from the outside*. We're taught if the
Mom
> is uncomfortable, the latch is the first thing to check. Even a good latch
> can be improved.
>
> Today, the soreness in one nipple is much worse, and
> > it looks like she is sucking the skin off the end of my nipple. When my
> > nipple air-dries, it looks bruised on the end. Yesterday it was better,
> but
> > today it is worse. I don't notice much pain when she goes on the
breast,
> > but by the time she comes off, it is getting quite uncomfortable.
>
> As I've said above, this does, to me, indicate an issue. Let me be clear,
a
> *real* positioning problem - ie quite bad - would eventually end up in
> supply problems, or even mastitis. I don't think that's your issue. It
> sounds like baby is getting plenty, despite a latch that's probably good,
> but could be improved with a little work, to help Mom out if nothing else.
> Sore nipples are a risk. Please don't use anything on them if you can help
> it, although Lansinoh is the best if you must.

Since her last feed, I have just let my nipples air out and have been just
dabbing any leaking milk into them.

> >
> > I have the number of a lactation consultant, and I will give a call, but
> any
> > addition help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Well I hope this helps some. If it doesn't or it's hard to understand then
> please let me know, feel free to email me if you need to.
>
> PS Here's 3 links I know on positioning.
>
> http://www.show.scot.nhs.uk/breastfeed/BabyLed/index.html
>
> http://users.erols.com/cindyrn/31.htm
>
> http://www.wiessinger.baka.com/bfing/howworks/latchtalk.html

Thanks for the links, I will check them out as well.
Stacey

>
> Cheers
> Nikki
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Stacey
> >
> >
>
>

[news.eclipse.co.uk]

"Gorgon Park" > wrote in message
...
>
> "news.eclipse.co.uk" > wrote in message
> ...
> ><snipped lots>
> For instance, on the right breast, the flatness is on the left side, and
> reverse for the left breast. So, the flatness is on my cleavage side.

Well from this we know that the incorrect pressure of your nipple in the
baby's mouth is occurring, presumably, from their lower jaw. Ideally what
happens is, the nipple actually almost never gets touched once it is in the
baby's mouth. The gums and lips milk the breast on the areola and the nipple
remains protected, which is why it should look evenly elongated when you
take her off. Try what I've said and see if it improves. Be focused
especially on getting the bottom jaw in the right place.

Are you looking for a lowered tongue, protuding over the lower gum? Also are
her lips well turned out?

> > The thing might be to try what position she is in horizontally. Even
with
> > all of the classes saying 'nose to nipple' most women I've personally
seen
> > will still often have the baby's head too far towards the arm next to
the
> > breast.
>
> I think I might be doing this.

When we see a baby we automatically assume them held in the crook of the
arm. But for breast feeding it's too far over. As I said, tuck the baby
right in, legs under your opposite arm, and approach from the cleavage side.
How are you holding the baby? If we're still talking left breast is it
holding her with your right arm along her back and your right hand at the
base of the skull?

Also, are you holding your breast at all?

Just to cover all the bases, i should also say you need to be sat straight,
so that your breasts hang in a natural position and you aren't straining
your back. If you have smaller breasts and quite a small baby it can mean
holding the baby quite high, breast level rather than tummy level. Boppies
and pillows can be useful, have as many as you need.

We can keep seeing how you're going and then see about bringing around that
left arm once the baby feels comfortable on the breast.

>
> >
It helps to tuck her legs around your body under your right arm
> > to keep her really close.
>
> I have been doing this wrong as well. I have been putting her legs around
> my arm, as it seemed to give me better control over her. I will tuck her
> under and see if that helps as well.

Yeah, really close like you're practically suffocating the small mite :-)

>
> I most likely have been having her too far over to my arm then. I will
try
> this at her next feeding and see if it helps. Should this fix the
flatness
> as well?

Well flatness occurs because something's not quite right. Alone it's not a
problem, but with soreness it's worth looking into. Your best guide from now
on in is you. How does it feel? Try what we've talked about and see. As I
said, if it only hurts at the start of the feed but the pain gets better as
the milk flows, that's your best guide that no damage is happening during
that feed. If it doesn't stop hurting and gets worse during the feed, it's
still not right and you need to gently remove the baby and try again.
> >
> > She seems to take a large part of the areola, so I assumed that she
> > > was taking a bit enough mouthful. I have been unlatching and
relatching
> > her
> > > several times on the sore-est side, but it doesn't seem to be helping.
> >
> My left side is the sorest.

Does it feel harder to do that side generally?

>
> Since her last feed, I have just let my nipples air out and have been just
> dabbing any leaking milk into them.

Cool.

Sounds like you're doing great, hugs, I know all this fiddling about can be
a pain when all you want to do is sleep actually! You and the baby are just
figuring this out together and you'll get there.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Nikki

> Stacey

[Phoebe & Allyson]

Gorgon Park wrote:

> We have been using the
> cross-cradle hold

I also vote for bad latch. Cross-cradle was the hold I
liked, and we had latch problems too. I found if I had a
latch that looked good, but didn't feel good, moving the
baby down helped most of the time. So if she's nursing on
the left side, slide her towards your right. (Easier if
she's lying on a pillow than if you have to move your arm.)

Phoebe :)
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

[Chotii]

"Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
...
> Gorgon Park wrote:
>
> > We have been using the
> > cross-cradle hold
>
> I also vote for bad latch. Cross-cradle was the hold I
> liked, and we had latch problems too. I found if I had a
> latch that looked good, but didn't feel good, moving the
> baby down helped most of the time. So if she's nursing on
> the left side, slide her towards your right. (Easier if
> she's lying on a pillow than if you have to move your arm.)

I'll agree that latch is the probable culprit, but it could be thrush - or
even premenstrual hormones if your period were about to return. In the case
of thrush, one dose of diflucan will *not* help it the way it helps with a
vaginal yeast infection, because of how diflucan works. The dosing for
ductal or nipple yeast with diflucan is different, higher, and lasts much
longer (I mean at least 2 weeks). A better way to "diagnose" thrush, if
present, is by appearance (white patches on nipples, or skin of aureola
shiny and taut), type of pain (Burning, stabbing, and does not fade during
nursing session), and whether it responds to topical antifungals such as
lotrimin, miconazole (Micatin) or gentian violet. If they help within an
application or two, it's probably yeast (but the treatment should last much
longer). If they don't help, it's probably positioning.

--angela

[news.eclipse.co.uk]

"Chotii" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Gorgon Park wrote:
> >
> > > We have been using the
> > > cross-cradle hold
> >
> > I also vote for bad latch. Cross-cradle was the hold I
> > liked, and we had latch problems too. I found if I had a
> > latch that looked good, but didn't feel good, moving the
> > baby down helped most of the time. So if she's nursing on
> > the left side, slide her towards your right. (Easier if
> > she's lying on a pillow than if you have to move your arm.)
>
> I'll agree that latch is the probable culprit, but it could be thrush - or
> even premenstrual hormones if your period were about to return. In the
case
> of thrush, one dose of diflucan will *not* help it the way it helps with a
> vaginal yeast infection, because of how diflucan works. The dosing for
> ductal or nipple yeast with diflucan is different, higher, and lasts much
> longer (I mean at least 2 weeks). A better way to "diagnose" thrush, if
> present, is by appearance (white patches on nipples, or skin of aureola
> shiny and taut), type of pain (Burning, stabbing, and does not fade during
> nursing session), and whether it responds to topical antifungals such as
> lotrimin, miconazole (Micatin) or gentian violet. If they help within an
> application or two, it's probably yeast (but the treatment should last
much
> longer). If they don't help, it's probably positioning.
>
> --angela

I feel it's important to get positioning right first before considering
thrush etc. Everything this mother has said points to a positioning issue.

Nikki

[Gorgon Park]

"news.eclipse.co.uk" > wrote in message
...
> "Gorgon Park" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "news.eclipse.co.uk" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > ><snipped lots>
> > For instance, on the right breast, the flatness is on the left side,
and
> > reverse for the left breast. So, the flatness is on my cleavage side.
>
> Well from this we know that the incorrect pressure of your nipple in the
> baby's mouth is occurring, presumably, from their lower jaw. Ideally what
> happens is, the nipple actually almost never gets touched once it is in
the
> baby's mouth. The gums and lips milk the breast on the areola and the
nipple
> remains protected, which is why it should look evenly elongated when you
> take her off. Try what I've said and see if it improves. Be focused
> especially on getting the bottom jaw in the right place.

Last night my DH was able to help me get her mouth open more, and that
seemed to help as well. So, I guess today we will try to learn better
position and opening better.

>
> Are you looking for a lowered tongue, protuding over the lower gum? Also
are
> her lips well turned out?
>
> > > The thing might be to try what position she is in horizontally. Even
> with
> > > all of the classes saying 'nose to nipple' most women I've personally
> seen
> > > will still often have the baby's head too far towards the arm next to
> the
> > > breast.
> >
> > I think I might be doing this.
>
> When we see a baby we automatically assume them held in the crook of the
> arm. But for breast feeding it's too far over. As I said, tuck the baby
> right in, legs under your opposite arm, and approach from the cleavage
side.
> How are you holding the baby? If we're still talking left breast is it
> holding her with your right arm along her back and your right hand at the
> base of the skull?

Yes, this is how I have been holding her. Last night, I also tried the
football hold (having her tucked under my left arm with her bum on the back
of the chair). The first time it helped the soreness, but after that, it
didn't. I am finding now that because I had her in the wrong position
(nipple in front of her mouth) that now she won't reach for the nipple when
it is above her mouth, so I have to try to push her head back more. Between
this and the constant re-latching, she is not really very happy with me
these days!

>
> Also, are you holding your breast at all?

I try to hold it throughout the nursing session. If I need to drink or
something, I let it go and then re-hold when done.

>
> Just to cover all the bases, i should also say you need to be sat
straight,
> so that your breasts hang in a natural position and you aren't straining
> your back. If you have smaller breasts and quite a small baby it can mean
> holding the baby quite high, breast level rather than tummy level. Boppies
> and pillows can be useful, have as many as you need.
>
> We can keep seeing how you're going and then see about bringing around
that
> left arm once the baby feels comfortable on the breast.
>
> >
> > >
> It helps to tuck her legs around your body under your right arm
> > > to keep her really close.
> >
> > I have been doing this wrong as well. I have been putting her legs
around
> > my arm, as it seemed to give me better control over her. I will tuck
her
> > under and see if that helps as well.
>
> Yeah, really close like you're practically suffocating the small mite :-)
>
> >
> > I most likely have been having her too far over to my arm then. I will
> try
> > this at her next feeding and see if it helps. Should this fix the
> flatness
> > as well?
>
> Well flatness occurs because something's not quite right. Alone it's not a
> problem, but with soreness it's worth looking into. Your best guide from
now
> on in is you. How does it feel? Try what we've talked about and see. As I
> said, if it only hurts at the start of the feed but the pain gets better
as
> the milk flows, that's your best guide that no damage is happening during
> that feed. If it doesn't stop hurting and gets worse during the feed, it's
> still not right and you need to gently remove the baby and try again.
> > >
> > > She seems to take a large part of the areola, so I assumed that she
> > > > was taking a bit enough mouthful. I have been unlatching and
> relatching
> > > her
> > > > several times on the sore-est side, but it doesn't seem to be
helping.
> > >
> > My left side is the sorest.
>
> Does it feel harder to do that side generally?
>
> >
> > Since her last feed, I have just let my nipples air out and have been
just
> > dabbing any leaking milk into them.
>
> Cool.
>
> Sounds like you're doing great, hugs, I know all this fiddling about can
be
> a pain when all you want to do is sleep actually! You and the baby are
just
> figuring this out together and you'll get there.
>
> Let me know if you need anything else.
>
> Nikki
>
> > Stacey
>
>
>

[Gorgon Park]

"Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
...
> Gorgon Park wrote:
>
> > We have been using the
> > cross-cradle hold
>
> I also vote for bad latch. Cross-cradle was the hold I
> liked, and we had latch problems too. I found if I had a
> latch that looked good, but didn't feel good, moving the
> baby down helped most of the time. So if she's nursing on
> the left side, slide her towards your right. (Easier if
> she's lying on a pillow than if you have to move your arm.)

Thanks Phoebe. I will try to move her down. I am finding that now, because
I had my nipple in front of her mouth, instead of in front of her nose, she
won't reach up for the nipple now. Any ideas how to encourage her to do
that on her own?

>
> Phoebe :)
> --
> yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt
>

[news.eclipse.co.uk]

"Gorgon Park" > wrote in message
...
> Last night my DH was able to help me get her mouth open more, and that
> seemed to help as well. So, I guess today we will try to learn better
> position and opening better.

Part of the benefit of them being further across the body is when they have
to reach for the breast they must open wide. Some mothers with those babies
that really don't open wide at all can find it a help to gently press down
on the baby's chin to open the mouth - as you've found though you often need
more hands than you have to accomplish this manoevre!

> Yes, this is how I have been holding her. Last night, I also tried the
> football hold (having her tucked under my left arm with her bum on the
back
> of the chair). The first time it helped the soreness, but after that, it
> didn't.

It can help to switch positions because where the incorrect pressure is
occurring from her mouth will pressure a different part of the nipple,
giving that sore side a break. But as you've found it can often lead to
further damage and soreness. Have you tried lying down at all?

I am finding now that because I had her in the wrong position
> (nipple in front of her mouth) that now she won't reach for the nipple
when
> it is above her mouth, so I have to try to push her head back more.

Hold her head very lightly at the base of a neck and focus on holding her
body tight to yours with your arm but almost letting her head fall back at
little.

Between
> this and the constant re-latching, she is not really very happy with me
> these days!

Well tough kiddo! We know you like your milk but hurting Mommy is not part
of the deal :-)

> I try to hold it throughout the nursing session. If I need to drink or
> something, I let it go and then re-hold when done.

OK well this might also be an issue. The general rule is that unless you
have very large breasts you probably don't need to hold it at all. What can
happen is that we tilt the breast when holding it, changing the angle of the
nipple. Then when we let go, either for the rest of the feed, or as you say
for a break, the breast falls back into it's natural position, which can
move it around a lot in the baby's mouth.

If you feel that you must hold it, are more comfortable holding it, then
please try and do it as a support for your breast only. This means your
little, ring and third finger (left hand) on your ribcage right under the
left breast, with the first two fingers *lightly* supporting underneath the
breast and the thumb pointing upwards. Try not to move the breast either
left or right, or move the angle of your nipple from where it rests
naturally.

What can happen is a woman holds her breast, moves it a lot, gets the baby
latches on perfectly, then lets go of the breast (which is the long term
ideal so you can wrap your left arm around the baby to join the right for a
relaxed nursing positiong) which practically can pop the nipple right out of
baby's mouth as the breast falls back into natural position. So be aware.

Nikki

[news.eclipse.co.uk]

"Gorgon Park" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Phoebe & Allyson" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Gorgon Park wrote:
> >
> > > We have been using the
> > > cross-cradle hold
> >
> > I also vote for bad latch. Cross-cradle was the hold I
> > liked, and we had latch problems too. I found if I had a
> > latch that looked good, but didn't feel good, moving the
> > baby down helped most of the time. So if she's nursing on
> > the left side, slide her towards your right. (Easier if
> > she's lying on a pillow than if you have to move your arm.)
>
> Thanks Phoebe. I will try to move her down. I am finding that now,
because
> I had my nipple in front of her mouth, instead of in front of her nose,
she
> won't reach up for the nipple now. Any ideas how to encourage her to do
> that on her own?

Try squeezing out a little milk so she can smell it. Try tickling her upper
lip with your nipple.

BTW if your soreness really isn't getting better in the next day or so I
would *strongly* suggest getting a local BF supporter in. The internet is a
fabulous resource, but no substitute for someone there with you, guiding you
through it.

Good luck
Nikki

[Phoebe & Allyson]

Gorgon Park wrote:

> I am finding that now, because
> I had my nipple in front of her mouth, instead of in front of her nose, she
> won't reach up for the nipple now. Any ideas how to encourage her to do
> that on her own?

Try tickling her nose with the nipple. I'd drag mine from
her forehead down her nose, and she'd tip her head back and
open wide. I could also see if she was starting too low,
and I wouldn't let her latch if it didn't look right. She
has a super-strong suck, though - I got a blood blister from
the very first nursing because her latch wasn't exactly
right, and she got in 3 sucks before I could unlatch her.
More than one unlatch a session wasn't good for either of us. :)

Phoebe :)
--
yahoo address is unread - substitute mailbolt

[Gorgon Park]

Thanks everyone for your help over the past couple of days. I saw a
lacation consultant yesterday and she was able to help me "tweak" DD's
latch. So, we are on the clear path now! All of the pain has pretty much
disappeared, and now I am just experiencing some slight discomfort, which I
think is probably normal for the mother of a 8 day old baby.

Thanks again!
Stacey


"Gorgon Park" > wrote in message
...
> Hello, I have been lurking here for quite some time now, and now that I
have
> a 4 day old nursing infant, I find I already have a question.
>
> During my labour, I had to have antibiotics (due to GBS+). Could thrush
be
> appearing this early? I have noticed yesterday and today that when I
apply
> some Lansinoh after feedings, that my nipples seem to burn and that it
lasts
> for a few minutes after I re-cover them. Could this just be related to
> nipple soreness or is it definately a symptom of thrush? DD is feeding
well
> and is starting to re-gain, so I am not really concerned for her at this
> point.
>
> I have Googled some of the old posts about thrush on this newsgroup, and I
> will try some of the suggestions. DDs first well baby visit is Friday.
> Should I wait until then to discuss my concerns with the doctor, or should
I
> make a separate appt as soon as possible?
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Stacey
>
>