Vent--Comfort Sucking & Sleep Issues

[Kathy]

I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.

When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
no idea how hard it was going to be...

Before I say anything else, let me say I really do LOVE BF'ing...really.
I enjoy the actual act of BF'ing...it makes me feel good, and I know
it's best for my DD. But there are some things that are drawbacks (for
me) that nobody told me about before hand.

Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
(she likes to use it as a pillow). This has been hard on me, because
for the most part no one else can comfort DD. At times my DH is able
to, but really most of the time she wants me. I understand that, and in
many ways that makes me feel so good...but it also makes it next to
impossible for me to get anything else done around the house or for
myself.

No one told me she would want to do this, and now I understand that it's
a common thing with BF'ed babies. I've only had experience with formula
fed babies, so this is new to me. Really I am glad to comfort her...but
I also occasionally need to go to the bathroom or answer the phone or
make a sandwich...it makes me a nervous wreck to have to run through all
of these things because she is crying for me.

The other (and bigger) problem is sleep. DH and I choose not to
co-sleep with DD. Really it's not even an option...we have a tiny
apartment and a full size bed...we take up every inch of it...barely
room for us. DD and I are not tiny people and can both be heavy
sleepers...I am very afraid of rolling over onto DD. I've tried kicking
DH out onto the couch, but even with just DD and me I get absolutely no
sleep. She really doesn't seem to sleep all that well either...she
seems to be constantly rooting for me all night long. She sort of tries
to latch onto me in her sleep (very unsuccessfully) and ends up just
shaking her head and licking at my nipple for long blocks of time...she
seems restless and I feel like I'll go out of my mind.

No one told me that BF'ed babies don't sleep for long periods (in
general) like formula fed babies do. DD doesn't sleep for more than an
hour at a time...meaning I barely sleep at all. People say sleep when
she sleeps...that seems impossible to me. She refuses to sleep in
her...she wakes up within minutes of my laying her down in what I
thought was a deep sleep.

I hope no one takes this as a slam against BF'ing. I am still so glad
that I chose to do it...and I am going to continue to do it. Monday I
hit the 6 week mark of exclusively BF'ing, and I am proud of that.

I just needed a bit of a vent I guess. In a way I feel like I wasn't
given all of the info about BF'ing before I made the commitment to do
it.

Please, someone, tell me this is going to get better soon?

Thanks for listening,
Kathy

[All4meUC]

It will get better. I posted a similar vent about comfort sucking. My son is
now 2 months plus one week and gradually I am seeing changes. I am actually
able to set him in his bouncy seat on the kitchen floor while I prepare a
sandwich or wash dishes. As long as he can see me he is ok. When I first
started this he would cry as soon as I set him down but after a few seconds of
crying he would stop and realize he was ok, and that Mommy is still there.

~Tracy

[H Schinske]

Kathy ) wrote:

>No one told me that BF'ed babies don't sleep for long periods (in
>general) like formula fed babies do. DD doesn't sleep for more than an
>hour at a time...meaning I barely sleep at all.

I don't think this is necessarily to do with breastfeeding. Some babies are
like this no matter how they are fed ... and yes, it is hard! It sounds as
though she is relatively high-needs at the moment. I take it that she isn't
actually colicky, just wakeful?

I think you need to let others help even if it seems that she is really
satisfied with no one but you sometimes. Have someone take her for a walk for a
hour or so just after she's nursed a lot, and you take a nap.

Best of luck. You are doing a great job.

--Helen

[AnnaS]

Have you tried a pacifier? By 5.5 weeks, there shouldn't be much worry
about nipple confusion anymore.

Anna



Kathy wrote:

> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.
>
> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
> no idea how hard it was going to be...
>
> Before I say anything else, let me say I really do LOVE BF'ing...really.
> I enjoy the actual act of BF'ing...it makes me feel good, and I know
> it's best for my DD. But there are some things that are drawbacks (for
> me) that nobody told me about before hand.
>
> Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
> it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
> sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
> (she likes to use it as a pillow). This has been hard on me, because
> for the most part no one else can comfort DD. At times my DH is able
> to, but really most of the time she wants me. I understand that, and in
> many ways that makes me feel so good...but it also makes it next to
> impossible for me to get anything else done around the house or for
> myself.
>
> No one told me she would want to do this, and now I understand that it's
> a common thing with BF'ed babies. I've only had experience with formula
> fed babies, so this is new to me. Really I am glad to comfort her...but
> I also occasionally need to go to the bathroom or answer the phone or
> make a sandwich...it makes me a nervous wreck to have to run through all
> of these things because she is crying for me.
>
> The other (and bigger) problem is sleep. DH and I choose not to
> co-sleep with DD. Really it's not even an option...we have a tiny
> apartment and a full size bed...we take up every inch of it...barely
> room for us. DD and I are not tiny people and can both be heavy
> sleepers...I am very afraid of rolling over onto DD. I've tried kicking
> DH out onto the couch, but even with just DD and me I get absolutely no
> sleep. She really doesn't seem to sleep all that well either...she
> seems to be constantly rooting for me all night long. She sort of tries
> to latch onto me in her sleep (very unsuccessfully) and ends up just
> shaking her head and licking at my nipple for long blocks of time...she
> seems restless and I feel like I'll go out of my mind.
>
> No one told me that BF'ed babies don't sleep for long periods (in
> general) like formula fed babies do. DD doesn't sleep for more than an
> hour at a time...meaning I barely sleep at all. People say sleep when
> she sleeps...that seems impossible to me. She refuses to sleep in
> her...she wakes up within minutes of my laying her down in what I
> thought was a deep sleep.
>
> I hope no one takes this as a slam against BF'ing. I am still so glad
> that I chose to do it...and I am going to continue to do it. Monday I
> hit the 6 week mark of exclusively BF'ing, and I am proud of that.
>
> I just needed a bit of a vent I guess. In a way I feel like I wasn't
> given all of the info about BF'ing before I made the commitment to do
> it.
>
> Please, someone, tell me this is going to get better soon?
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Kathy

[Mary W.]

Kathy wrote:

> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.
>
> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
> no idea how hard it was going to be...
>
> Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
> it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
> sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
> (she likes to use it as a pillow). This has been hard on me, because

DD was really "sucky" too - but couldn't figure out how to comfort nurse
without getting milk and thus getting mad. So we introduced the pacifier-
and we worked pretty hard at getting her to take it, but you may want
to consider it, especially if nursing is well established. As for sleeping,
at that age, DD needed to be really swaddled up to sleep. Really snug.
She also napped in her carseat - I'd put her in it and go for a walk
(snapped
into the stroller), she'd inevitably fall asleep and I'd leave her in it.
People
have also had good luck getting their kids to sleep in a swing, if you have
one try it, or see if you could borrow one. We did resort for awhile to
letting DD sleep in her carseat, at night, between us. I know this isn't
recommended (there are risks to it), but we were desparate.

And it does get better. DD never slept for long periods, up a couple
of times a night, until she turned two. She probably would have been
like this if we had formula fed, I suspect its just the way she is.

You are doing great, hang in there, it'll improve.

Mary

[Anne Rogers]

It will almost certainly get better soon. It does sound like you are
having a tough time. We used a dummy from about 4 weeks and it definitely
helped times like you describe, we ditched it at 12 weeks without a
problem. What's she like in a pushchair? If that will help settle her,
then someone else can take her out whilst you rest. At 5 and half weeks I
got a breast pump, when he was 5 weeks 6 days old, I let a friend give him
a bottle, I got the longest amount of sleep I'd had since he was born,
which was fantastic. Have you got a pump? If not you could probably easily
hand express enough for a bottle (or other feeding method) at this stage,
if you did this once a week it might just give you enough of a break to
push through the next couple of months, or however long it takes.

[Irrational Number]

Kathy wrote:
>
> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.
>
> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
> no idea how hard it was going to be...
>
> Before I say anything else, let me say I really do LOVE BF'ing...really.
> I enjoy the actual act of BF'ing...it makes me feel good, and I know
> it's best for my DD. But there are some things that are drawbacks (for
> me) that nobody told me about before hand.

That's why I like this newsgroup so much. There's
nothing like a bunch of people who are actively
engaged in a particular activity to help you find
out what ACTUALLY happens. I was not prepared from
the books (even the highly-recommended ones).

> Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
> it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
> sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
> (she likes to use it as a pillow).

I hear you! I had about 15 minutes "free" every
hour to run around to go to the bathroom, refill
the cup, whatever, before Pillbug wanted more again.
Make dinner? Ha! My husband bought dinner home
a lot initially!

> The other (and bigger) problem is sleep. DH and I choose not to
> co-sleep with DD. [...]
> No one told me that BF'ed babies don't sleep for long periods (in
> general) like formula fed babies do.

Exactly. In fact, I did not realize that I would
not get unbroken sleep for a LONG time. Pillbug is
four months old now, and I have not slept over 4
hours at a stretch since, oh, the sixth month of
pregnancy! ;)

The pediatrician checked my logs (I've been keeping
feeding/peeing/pooping/sleeping logs since the first
week at home) and said that Pillbug is being "normal".
I said I need more sleep. He asked if I wanted to
use formula. I said no, I don't want to give Pillbug
formula more than I want sleep. So, I had to accept
this.

> I hope no one takes this as a slam against BF'ing. I am still so glad
> that I chose to do it...and I am going to continue to do it. Monday I
> hit the 6 week mark of exclusively BF'ing, and I am proud of that.

People here understand completely! Just a bit of
warning... You are about to hit the 6-week growth
spurt where your baby will want to nurse EVEN MORE.
(And not comfort nurse, real nursing.) It will
get better after a few days to a week, but be
prepared to be latched on even more. (It does end
and you go back to what is currently "normal".)

-- Anita --

[Nikki]

Kathy wrote:
> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads
> this.
>
> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I
> had no idea how hard it was going to be...

Oh boy. This type of baby can be so delightful, yet so overwhelming. I was
able to nurse Hunter to sleep and then transfer him onto his dad. Steve was
happy to nap with him :-) Try that. Also, when my aunt would come down she
would take the baby for a walk for 30-60 minutes everyday she was there.
This was really much more helpful then you can even imagine. 30-60 minutes
of being in my house to do whatever I wanted without the stress of a crying
baby in the background. I think he probably fussed but he wasn't in
discomfort and was being attended to. If I could have gotten Steve to do
that I think I would have been much less stressed. Really try and get your
dh to get on board with something like that (or a bath maybe) now. IME,
once this type of baby gets a little older it is even harder to get them to
accept someone other then mom.

I spent a lot of time sleeping in the recliner with Hunter on my chest
during the day. He would sleep for larger chunks of time if he was on
someone. That might work for you even if co-sleeping does not.

As Hunter got older he continued to comfort nurse but mostly in the evening
(marathong nursing sessions) and during nap times. He nursed frequently
during the day but didn't linger as long.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

[Robin]

In article >, says...
> The pediatrician checked my logs (I've been keeping
> feeding/peeing/pooping/sleeping logs since the first
> week at home) and said that Pillbug is being "normal".
> I said I need more sleep. He asked if I wanted to
> use formula. I said no, I don't want to give Pillbug
> formula more than I want sleep. So, I had to accept
> this.
>
Would it be possible to pump and switch off night feeds with dad?

--
Robin

(Trying out a new email system. This address *does* (well, "should")
work.)

[Tina]

(Kathy) wrote in message >...
> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.
>
> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
> no idea how hard it was going to be...
>

Do you think we'd get any new converts if we *admitted* this? Just
kidding!

> Before I say anything else, let me say I really do LOVE BF'ing...really.
> I enjoy the actual act of BF'ing...it makes me feel good, and I know
> it's best for my DD. But there are some things that are drawbacks (for
> me) that nobody told me about before hand.
>

It's great that you're still so positive.

> Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
> it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
> sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
> (she likes to use it as a pillow). This has been hard on me, because
> for the most part no one else can comfort DD. At times my DH is able
> to, but really most of the time she wants me. I understand that, and in
> many ways that makes me feel so good...but it also makes it next to
> impossible for me to get anything else done around the house or for
> myself.
>

I suggest that you allow him to learn his own way of comforting her.
maybe after the next growth spurt, when you can be confident that it's
not a genuine hunger issue. A lot of babies 'insist' on comfort
nursing, or Mom only, but I think most of them will accept Dad if
they're clear that they have no choice. Take a long shower or bath,
and let your husband have the baby. I really suggest this because
it's one thing I would change drastically if I could go back in time.

My husband took Sage for a few hours at night when she was colicky,
but that really only lasted a couple of weeks, and since then, it's
taken me four years to get him to watch the kids when I'm home,
without my direct involvement, and it's still just for a couple of
hours at a time, he doesn't do baths, he doesn't put them to sleep and
he doesn't really feed them (he'll give them food, but he won't help
them eat if they need help (really only the 2 y.o.) and he won't clean
up after they eat). A lot of my friends had their husbands doing this
stuff starting when their babies were little, and it's helped them all
(Mom, Dad and Baby) a lot in the subsequent years.

> No one told me she would want to do this, and now I understand that it's
> a common thing with BF'ed babies. I've only had experience with formula
> fed babies, so this is new to me. Really I am glad to comfort her...but
> I also occasionally need to go to the bathroom or answer the phone or
> make a sandwich...it makes me a nervous wreck to have to run through all
> of these things because she is crying for me.
>

You have to stop being a nervous wreck about it. Really. That's what
I think, at least. It's not going to hurt her to understand that you
go to the bathroom alone (though if you manage this once she's moving
around, I'd love to hear how!) from time to time, and if you can get
some sort of phone time, I'd really admire that!


> No one told me that BF'ed babies don't sleep for long periods (in
> general) like formula fed babies do. DD doesn't sleep for more than an
> hour at a time...meaning I barely sleep at all. People say sleep when
> she sleeps...that seems impossible to me. She refuses to sleep in
> her...she wakes up within minutes of my laying her down in what I
> thought was a deep sleep.
>

Both of my daughters were like this at times. Have you swaddled her
tightly? That helped with Sage. I mean *tightly* So that you could
move her around like a little pod while she's sleeping and she doesn't
even notice.

And if that doesn't help, a lot of people used to tell me that it's
the smarter babies that sleep less -- I thought that was just
something nice they made up to tell me as I wandered around on 2 hours
of sleep day after day, but it may be true, both my girls are very
smart : ).

> I hope no one takes this as a slam against BF'ing. I am still so glad
> that I chose to do it...and I am going to continue to do it. Monday I
> hit the 6 week mark of exclusively BF'ing, and I am proud of that.
>

We're all proud of you, too!


> I just needed a bit of a vent I guess. In a way I feel like I wasn't
> given all of the info about BF'ing before I made the commitment to do
> it.
>

It wouldn't really be possible, though, for all this info. to be
given, because it's so individual. A friend of mine nursed her
daughter for 2.5 years and is still nursing her son at over 2 y., and
has never had any of the incessant nursing issues you've posted about,
she felt like she got good sleep from day one and her kids have slept
over 12 hours a night, almost their whole lives -- but she does get
mastitis frequently. Her mom and I were talking recently -- she
nursed each of her (2) kids for over 4 years, and she never had any
issues with either, at all! But she even felt sympathetic and said
she wouldn't blame me for weaning my 2 year old!

> Please, someone, tell me this is going to get better soon?
>

It is! And your attitude is already so much better, I think! You're
doing great!

Tina.

> Thanks for listening,
> Kathy

[Al Bell]

(Kathy) writes:

>Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
>it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
>sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
>(she likes to use it as a pillow).

Alternative viewpoint:

If you have a baby who's really latched on all the time, every day, I
think that's a possible symptom that he's letting less milk than he thinks
needs. Of course, 99 percent of the babies who latch on all the time might
be fine, but you want to make sure that your baby is one of the 99
babies who are fine and not the 1 baby who has real problems.

I think it would be good to take your son to the pediatrician's office to
be weighed, then to a really good, certified lactation consultant who can
help you evaluate your supply and your feeding technique.

Try to get the nurses to weigh your baby for free.

If the weigh-in shows that your baby is is growing well and the LC says
your feedings are going well (i.e., your son is swallowing a lot and milk
comes out of his mouth), then you just have to decide whether to be a
hardcore attachment parent or more of a traditional parent who lets your
baby spend more time crying.

If the pediatrician says your baby is growing more slowly, or has stopped
growing, and/or your baby is REALLY light (my daughter got down to the 3rd
percentile on one chart), and/or the LC says there seem to be problems
with your milk, your milk supply or your technique, then you might have to
work hard with the LC to come up with ways to improve your supply or
feeding technique.

[news.eclipse.co.uk]

"Kathy" > wrote in message
...
>
> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.

No problem kiddo, we've all been there.

> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
> no idea how hard it was going to be...

Sounds like your baby is normal to me. However in our sanitised society
we're so used to seeing babies raised the un-natural way - formula, soothers
etc, that we've forgotten what a normal baby does.

>
> Before I say anything else, let me say I really do LOVE BF'ing...really.
> I enjoy the actual act of BF'ing...it makes me feel good, and I know
> it's best for my DD. But there are some things that are drawbacks (for
> me) that nobody told me about before hand.

Good for you for sticking with it even though you're finding it tough.

>
> Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
> it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
> sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
> (she likes to use it as a pillow). This has been hard on me, because
> for the most part no one else can comfort DD. At times my DH is able
> to, but really most of the time she wants me. I understand that, and in
> many ways that makes me feel so good...but it also makes it next to
> impossible for me to get anything else done around the house or for
> myself.

It can be frustrating can't it? Maybe Dad can learn some more comforting
skills to give you a break sometimes, walking her up and down in a sling or
something?

>
> No one told me she would want to do this, and now I understand that it's
> a common thing with BF'ed babies. I've only had experience with formula
> fed babies, so this is new to me. Really I am glad to comfort her...but
> I also occasionally need to go to the bathroom or answer the phone or
> make a sandwich...it makes me a nervous wreck to have to run through all
> of these things because she is crying for me.

It's hard to relax and just do what you need to when that baby's cry just
cuts through your insides!

>
> The other (and bigger) problem is sleep. DH and I choose not to
> co-sleep with DD. Really it's not even an option...we have a tiny
> apartment and a full size bed...we take up every inch of it...barely
> room for us. DD and I are not tiny people and can both be heavy
> sleepers...I am very afraid of rolling over onto DD. I've tried kicking
> DH out onto the couch, but even with just DD and me I get absolutely no
> sleep. She really doesn't seem to sleep all that well either...she
> seems to be constantly rooting for me all night long. She sort of tries
> to latch onto me in her sleep (very unsuccessfully) and ends up just
> shaking her head and licking at my nipple for long blocks of time...she
> seems restless and I feel like I'll go out of my mind.

It's quite natural at this age I think to want to feed almost all night. I
understand your reasons for not wanting to cosleep, but you sure sound like
you're suffering from lack of rest.

>
> No one told me that BF'ed babies don't sleep for long periods (in
> general) like formula fed babies do.

No. But what I will tell you that might be little comfort right now is my
personal belief is that BF babies sleep longer, and better and have less
sleep issues generally when they're older as bedtime is such a secure and
happy time for them.

DD doesn't sleep for more than an
> hour at a time...meaning I barely sleep at all. People say sleep when
> she sleeps...that seems impossible to me. She refuses to sleep in
> her...she wakes up within minutes of my laying her down in what I
> thought was a deep sleep.

It's not unusual for a baby to refuse to sleep alone - I also expected to be
able to put mine down awake or asleep but it never lasted more than 5 mins!
Bearing this in mind are you sure you cannot consider co-sleeping? What
about a bedside cot that fits onto the side of the bed? How about making her
some sort of bed on the floor with a mattress where you can go to nurse her
to sleep, keeping her all warm and then sneak back to your bed?

>
> I hope no one takes this as a slam against BF'ing. I am still so glad
> that I chose to do it...and I am going to continue to do it. Monday I
> hit the 6 week mark of exclusively BF'ing, and I am proud of that.

Good for you. I bet you literally have NO idea how much you've done for your
baby's health in doing that.

>
> I just needed a bit of a vent I guess. In a way I feel like I wasn't
> given all of the info about BF'ing before I made the commitment to do
> it.

It's not really the info about BF though is it. It's that we all have a
fundamental expectation about how babies behave that is wrong given the fact
that so few of them in our society are raised the natural way. In societies
where formula doesn't exist they'd laugh if you told them a baby can sleep
alone or even be put down for a second. They carry their babies all day on
boards on their backs and the children all sleep together, at first with
Mom, and then as they are older with siblings. They'd think it preposterous
that we ever think a baby can sleep alone!

>
> Please, someone, tell me this is going to get better soon?

Oh Kathy it so is. Firstly, six weeks is usually a turning point, most Moms
find they really find their feet around now and things start coming together
much better. Plus, your baby is growing older all the time, which means that
she's maturing and will change for the better.

However I do feel that a little flexibility might be necessary. Throw your
'rules' and 'decisions' that you made about her care out of the window, find
a method that makes her sleep longer (no matter what it is) and then use it.
Sometimes we want baby to do something a certain way (sleep in their cot
being a great example) and it gets to the point where it's not working, and
you're exhausted. Something's gotta give, and it's pretty fair to say it's
never baby but Mummy that has to change. Experiment without prejudice and
you'll hit on something that gives you both more rest I'm sure.

It sounds like you're doing a fantastic job, you should be so proud of
yourself!
Good luck
Nikki


>
> Thanks for listening,
> Kathy
>

[[email protected]]

Kathy > wrote:

> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.

> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
> no idea how hard it was going to be...

> Before I say anything else, let me say I really do LOVE BF'ing...really.
> I enjoy the actual act of BF'ing...it makes me feel good, and I know
> it's best for my DD. But there are some things that are drawbacks (for
> me) that nobody told me about before hand.

> Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
> it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
> sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
> (she likes to use it as a pillow). This has been hard on me, because
> for the most part no one else can comfort DD. At times my DH is able
> to, but really most of the time she wants me. I understand that, and in
> many ways that makes me feel so good...but it also makes it next to
> impossible for me to get anything else done around the house or for
> myself.

My baby never did the comfort sucking thing - mostly because as soon as he
latches on, he gets a mouthful of milk. However, he has basically never
slept during the day. Until recently, I had to lie him down in his crib
and listen to him cry whenever I went to bathroom, took a shower, etc. The
good news is that in the last 3 weeks or so (he's 11 weeks old), he's
suddenly found out that there are things in this world that are far more
interesting than his Mommy! ;) I can now lay him in his crib and turn his
mobile on and I have 15 minutes to take a shower or whatever. He'll also
lay on my bed and watch the ceiling fan for a good long time! It's
wonderful! Good days are coming, I promise!

> No one told me she would want to do this, and now I understand that it's
> a common thing with BF'ed babies. I've only had experience with formula
> fed babies, so this is new to me. Really I am glad to comfort her...but
> I also occasionally need to go to the bathroom or answer the phone or
> make a sandwich...it makes me a nervous wreck to have to run through all
> of these things because she is crying for me.

> The other (and bigger) problem is sleep. DH and I choose not to
> co-sleep with DD. Really it's not even an option...we have a tiny
> apartment and a full size bed...we take up every inch of it...barely
> room for us. DD and I are not tiny people and can both be heavy
> sleepers...I am very afraid of rolling over onto DD. I've tried kicking
> DH out onto the couch, but even with just DD and me I get absolutely no
> sleep. She really doesn't seem to sleep all that well either...she
> seems to be constantly rooting for me all night long. She sort of tries
> to latch onto me in her sleep (very unsuccessfully) and ends up just
> shaking her head and licking at my nipple for long blocks of time...she
> seems restless and I feel like I'll go out of my mind.

> No one told me that BF'ed babies don't sleep for long periods (in
> general) like formula fed babies do. DD doesn't sleep for more than an
> hour at a time...meaning I barely sleep at all. People say sleep when
> she sleeps...that seems impossible to me. She refuses to sleep in
> her...she wakes up within minutes of my laying her down in what I
> thought was a deep sleep.

Well, just for the record, it's not a BF baby thing. My baby never sleeps
for more than 30 minutes at a time during the day, but sleeps 11 hours
straight at night. He hasn't woke up before 2 am since he was 2 weeks old.
We started out with DS in our room in a bassinet pushed up against our
bed. He kept up awake and we kept him awake. As soon as we moved him to
his own crib at 1 week old, we all slept better. Sometimes, however, it
takes at least 3 times to get him to sleep at night. I nurse him and rock
him to sleep and put him in the crib. 20 minutes later he wakes up crying.
I quietly walk back in without turning on the lights, pick him back up,
rock him back to sleep, and put him down again. Sometimes, we repeat this
several times before it actually sticks. Usually, I make DH go back in for
him because sometimes he'll act like he wants to nurse again if I go in
for him. He just latches on and screams when my milk lets down though.

> I hope no one takes this as a slam against BF'ing. I am still so glad
> that I chose to do it...and I am going to continue to do it. Monday I
> hit the 6 week mark of exclusively BF'ing, and I am proud of that.

I remember the night before my son turned 6 weeks old. I was sitting in
the rocking chair, rocking frantically while he screamed his head off. If
I tried to nurse him, he screamed louder. If I stopped rocking, he
shrieked. I couldn't do anything for him and I was mad and frustrated. I
thought to myself everyone says that it gets easier at 6 weeks so this
better get a whole lot better in the morning...

> I just needed a bit of a vent I guess. In a way I feel like I wasn't
> given all of the info about BF'ing before I made the commitment to do
> it.

> Please, someone, tell me this is going to get better soon?

It will get better soon, I promise. I think it gets better when they
start 'thanking' you for BFing. ;) It's easy to not notice the hard parts
when you have this little baby looking up at you and smiling while he
breastfeeds. My little guy grins like a fool everytime he realizes that
I'm getting ready to feed him! Really, everything gets better once they
start interacting with you more. It's so much less stressful when you see
them happily playing and giggling and laughing...

> Thanks for listening,
> Kathy

[[email protected]]

(Kathy) wrote in message >...
> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.
>
> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
> no idea how hard it was going to be...

You're doing *great*. My DS acted just like your DD; it's perfectly
normal, if hair-raising.

She may be going through her 6 week growth spurt. That said, I think
being just generally cranky and unsettleable is a normal condition for
some babies, like my DS, whether or not they are breastfed. My mom's
second and fourth babies were both breastfed, and both easy babies.
Her first (bottlefed) and third (breastfed) were the high-needs cranky
sort.

He adored his sling and currently adores his hiking backpack, which is
easier on me than the sling now that he weighs more. Have you tried a
sling? DS would settle for DH if we popped him in the sling and then
started walking, which got the baby off my body long enough to do
things like pee and take a shower.

We cosleep, so I'm not much help with tips for how to put her down --
I still can't put DS down, and have to sneak away once he's dropped
off.

--
C, mama to 1 year old nursling

[HollyLewis]

>I just needed a bit of a vent I guess. In a way I feel like I wasn't
>given all of the info about BF'ing before I made the commitment to do
>it.
>

The reason you weren't given this info about bf-ing is that the struggles you
are having with your daughter don't really have anything to do with bf-ing!
She's a high-needs baby, apparently more so than the babies you've known who,
it just so happens, were formula fed. But I've known formula fed babies who
behaved the way your DD does, and even more BF babies who are "easy" ones who
sleep a lot. It's temperament, not feeding method.

>Please, someone, tell me this is going to get better soon?

Yeah, it probably will, though it might take a bit longer than you'd like. :-)
I started being able to put my DS down sometimes at about 12 weeks. Will your
DD take a pacifier? Or a finger to suck on? It's perfectly okay to set some
limits on the comfort sucking, particularly now that BF is pretty well
established.

Vent away, whenever you need to. I'm sure there are others here who've had
fussier-than-average babies who can share their survival tips. :-) And we are
all here to just listen!

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

[KC]

Are you sure it is comfort sucking? When my babies did this I always
thought they needed more food. They both had low diaper counts
initially though, so I did have supply issues. I ended up giving up
at 4 weeks with the first, and perservered with the help of
galactagogues with the second.

It seemed my second was permaglued to me every waking moment for the
first 3.5 months. I would switch her back and forth from breast to
breast to keep the milk flowing, and she kept eating it. She didn't
actually gain in percentiles until her 4 month visit. Before then,
she was just keeping up with all that time at the breast.

I suggest you listen for drinking sounds and when they stop switch
breasts, and then when they stop again switch breasts again, etc. If
you do have a good milk supply maybe you will get her nice and full to
where she can't tolerate drinking any more and will pop off.
Switching breasts like that increases milk supply.

KC - clerk@alittlestore.
buy or rent Whittlestone Breast Expressers at:
http://www.alittlestore.com


(Kathy) wrote in message >...
> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.
>
> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
> no idea how hard it was going to be...
>
> Before I say anything else, let me say I really do LOVE BF'ing...really.
> I enjoy the actual act of BF'ing...it makes me feel good, and I know
> it's best for my DD. But there are some things that are drawbacks (for
> me) that nobody told me about before hand.
>
> Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
> it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
> sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
> (she likes to use it as a pillow). This has been hard on me, because
> for the most part no one else can comfort DD. At times my DH is able
> to, but really most of the time she wants me. I understand that, and in
> many ways that makes me feel so good...but it also makes it next to
> impossible for me to get anything else done around the house or for
> myself.
>
> No one told me she would want to do this, and now I understand that it's
> a common thing with BF'ed babies. I've only had experience with formula
> fed babies, so this is new to me. Really I am glad to comfort her...but
> I also occasionally need to go to the bathroom or answer the phone or
> make a sandwich...it makes me a nervous wreck to have to run through all
> of these things because she is crying for me.
>
> The other (and bigger) problem is sleep. DH and I choose not to
> co-sleep with DD. Really it's not even an option...we have a tiny
> apartment and a full size bed...we take up every inch of it...barely
> room for us. DD and I are not tiny people and can both be heavy
> sleepers...I am very afraid of rolling over onto DD. I've tried kicking
> DH out onto the couch, but even with just DD and me I get absolutely no
> sleep. She really doesn't seem to sleep all that well either...she
> seems to be constantly rooting for me all night long. She sort of tries
> to latch onto me in her sleep (very unsuccessfully) and ends up just
> shaking her head and licking at my nipple for long blocks of time...she
> seems restless and I feel like I'll go out of my mind.
>
> No one told me that BF'ed babies don't sleep for long periods (in
> general) like formula fed babies do. DD doesn't sleep for more than an
> hour at a time...meaning I barely sleep at all. People say sleep when
> she sleeps...that seems impossible to me. She refuses to sleep in
> her...she wakes up within minutes of my laying her down in what I
> thought was a deep sleep.
>
> I hope no one takes this as a slam against BF'ing. I am still so glad
> that I chose to do it...and I am going to continue to do it. Monday I
> hit the 6 week mark of exclusively BF'ing, and I am proud of that.
>
> I just needed a bit of a vent I guess. In a way I feel like I wasn't
> given all of the info about BF'ing before I made the commitment to do
> it.
>
> Please, someone, tell me this is going to get better soon?
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Kathy

[Stephanie]

(Kathy) wrote in message >...
> I just really need to vent...thanks in advance to anyone who reads this.
>
> When I decided to BF our DD (5 weeks, 5 days old...exclusively BF) I had
> no idea how hard it was going to be...
>
> Before I say anything else, let me say I really do LOVE BF'ing...really.
> I enjoy the actual act of BF'ing...it makes me feel good, and I know
> it's best for my DD. But there are some things that are drawbacks (for
> me) that nobody told me about before hand.
>
> Number one is the comfort sucking. I don't mind it sometimes, but often
> it seems like DD wants to be latched on to me 24 hours a day...just
> sucking, or even just laying there somehow in contact with my breast
> (she likes to use it as a pillow). This has been hard on me, because
> for the most part no one else can comfort DD. At times my DH is able
> to, but really most of the time she wants me. I understand that, and in
> many ways that makes me feel so good...but it also makes it next to
> impossible for me to get anything else done around the house or for
> myself.
>
> No one told me she would want to do this, and now I understand that it's
> a common thing with BF'ed babies. I've only had experience with formula
> fed babies, so this is new to me. Really I am glad to comfort her...but
> I also occasionally need to go to the bathroom or answer the phone or
> make a sandwich...it makes me a nervous wreck to have to run through all
> of these things because she is crying for me.
>
> The other (and bigger) problem is sleep. DH and I choose not to
> co-sleep with DD. Really it's not even an option...we have a tiny
> apartment and a full size bed...we take up every inch of it...barely
> room for us. DD and I are not tiny people and can both be heavy
> sleepers...I am very afraid of rolling over onto DD. I've tried kicking
> DH out onto the couch, but even with just DD and me I get absolutely no
> sleep. She really doesn't seem to sleep all that well either...she
> seems to be constantly rooting for me all night long. She sort of tries
> to latch onto me in her sleep (very unsuccessfully) and ends up just
> shaking her head and licking at my nipple for long blocks of time...she
> seems restless and I feel like I'll go out of my mind.
>
> No one told me that BF'ed babies don't sleep for long periods (in
> general) like formula fed babies do. DD doesn't sleep for more than an
> hour at a time...meaning I barely sleep at all. People say sleep when
> she sleeps...that seems impossible to me. She refuses to sleep in
> her...she wakes up within minutes of my laying her down in what I
> thought was a deep sleep.
>
> I hope no one takes this as a slam against BF'ing. I am still so glad
> that I chose to do it...and I am going to continue to do it. Monday I
> hit the 6 week mark of exclusively BF'ing, and I am proud of that.
>
> I just needed a bit of a vent I guess. In a way I feel like I wasn't
> given all of the info about BF'ing before I made the commitment to do
> it.
>
> Please, someone, tell me this is going to get better soon?
>
> Thanks for listening,
> Kathy


I have been in the same place. You cannot blame the baby for trying.
Sucking on a breast is really nice, or so it would seem since the
babies do it. The difference between formula and breastfeeding is that
the baby does not know what it is missing when formula fed from the
beginning and adopts a pacifier more easily since it is similar enough
to the feeding nipple.

For myself, with my first child, I did NOT find it got better on its
own. With this, my second child, I am recognizing that my dislike of
the situation is a serious threat to our breastfeeding relationship
and am taking steps. These steps include not allowing her extended
comfort sucking on my breast. I offer her my pinky (everyone has one
of those). I offer her a pacifier, which so far she completely does
not want. If she cries, I know I can place her on the breast. But I
don't. People have been soothing babies by rocking, patting their
bums, walking the halls for time immemorial. These are all comforting
techniques and your baby will like them. Not immediately since she is
accustomed to immediate gratification of the breast. Personally, the
wear the baby in the sling and co-sleep thing was not OK for me. And I
do not feel any guilt in balancing my children's needs with my needs.
My daughter gets pinky and bumb patting and rocking a lot. But not
breast comfort sucking. She is OK with that.


Regarding DH and comforting. 5 week old babies are smart. She knows
the difference between you and DH. She may want you. But she does not
have to immediately get what she wants. If she is certainly not
hungry, is dry and burb free, warm and all that jazz, there is no
reason that DH cannot offer a pinky and rock, walk whatever. She will
get the message that she can enjoy Daddy too. Daddy can put his time
in finding ways to sooth her. If a baby is crying, she does not NEED
to be stopped instantly. It will get on your nerves something wicked
at first. But in the long run, if comfort nursing is not your bag,
then it is in everyone's best interest for the whole family to find
multiple ways to comfort her.

Regarding sleep... it sounds like your daughter has developed a
nursing sleep association. You can read in any number of parenting
books, on sleep and not on sleep, about sleep associations and partial
wakings. The advice is to put the baby to sleep partially awake and
let her fall asleep in the crib. In my opinion, this only works easily
if you do this from the first moment the baby comes home. If you wait
until say 5 weeks, the baby has developed a sleep association, as
unsophisticated as it might be. No fault of the babies! She knows the
good stuff when she gets it. Though some experts would not agree with
me, some babies, with Mom's who don't mind nursing for any or all
partial wakings, the baby must get plenty of sleep. And over time, Mom
and baby learn to latch with little or no recollection or sleep
disturbance. Totally NOT my scene. Truth be told, for perfect sleep I
would sleep ALONE, not even my husband present. Noises wake me,
movements wake me, etc.. Again, as a family balance manuever, my
daughter has to sleep in her crib. There are all sorts of techniques
out there. Dr. Ferber has a book "Solving Your Child's Sleep Problems"
which discusses partial wakings and sleep associations. Many people
find allowing the child to cry cruel. Others on this group have
suggested the No Cry Sleep Solution. I do not know the author and have
not read it. Even if its message is not for 5 week olds, perhaps you
can read it and be prepared.

I thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in. This group has a lot of
AP posters. I have not read their perspectives yet, but thought I
would tell you my thoughts.

Good luck!

Stephanie

[Kathy]

I wanted to take a minute to update everyone on how things are going
with my daughter.

First let me offer a HUGE thank you to everyone who responded to my
post, either here or through email. Really, I can't thank you all
enough for the support and advice. This is an amazing group...I can't
believe how many people here not only take the time to read and respond,
but go out of their way to offer detailed, thoughtful advice to a
perfect stranger. I wish I could respond to each of you...but I am
lucky I am sneaking this internet time in (DD is napping). Please let
me say that all of your help was read and much appreciated.

Now, on to DD...we seem to have turned a corner. She turned 6 weeks
yesterday and in some ways it's like a light has been turned on in her.
Over the past 3 days or so, I've noticed a huge change in her...she has
started to suck on her own fingers and hand more (has trouble finding
the thumb though) which gives me a break from the comfort sucking. She
also seems to be smiling and happy a lot more...content would be a good
word. Of course she's still nursing like crazy and acting like a
typical 6 week old...but I really do see a change in her.

As for the sleeping...Another minor miracle has occured. I read the
book "The Happiest Baby on the Block" and watched the corresponding DVD
on a friend's advice. I'm not going to say that the book is gospel and
perfect in every way...but there is one thing from that book that has
really helped me, and that's the emphasis it puts on swaddling.

I used to swaddle dd in the hospital and in the first week or 2...but
then I sort of abandoned it. It didn't seem to do any good. Little did
I know I was doing it wrong...way too loosely, allowing her arms to get
out. The DVD was a huge help, and now it's like a minor miracle has
occured. DD has gone to sleep 5 times in a row now without problem, and
I believe I owe it to swaddling. Now I know how to do it very snuggly,
where her arms stay down at her sides. I can tell when she starts to
get ready for a nap (or for sleep at night) and right away I swaddle
her. An hour and a half ago she seemed tired, so I swaddled her, laid
her in her crib, turned on her fisher-price aquarium (on the bubble
setting) and walked out, leaving her there like a little mummy (not
crying and with eyes wide open). Checked on her after a few minutes and
she was sound asleep!

So it might be a fluke...but I think the swaddling really has helped.
Thank you to all of you here who offered that as advice as well.

I'm sure I'll be back with other questions...and I hope to chime in with
support for others as well, as soon as I have a bit more time and learn
a bit more...

Thanks,
Kathy

[Stephanie and Tim]

"Kathy" > wrote in message
...
>
> I wanted to take a minute to update everyone on how things are going
> with my daughter.
>
> First let me offer a HUGE thank you to everyone who responded to my
> post, either here or through email. Really, I can't thank you all
> enough for the support and advice. This is an amazing group...I can't
> believe how many people here not only take the time to read and respond,
> but go out of their way to offer detailed, thoughtful advice to a
> perfect stranger. I wish I could respond to each of you...but I am
> lucky I am sneaking this internet time in (DD is napping). Please let
> me say that all of your help was read and much appreciated.
>
> Now, on to DD...we seem to have turned a corner. She turned 6 weeks
> yesterday and in some ways it's like a light has been turned on in her.
> Over the past 3 days or so, I've noticed a huge change in her...she has
> started to suck on her own fingers and hand more (has trouble finding
> the thumb though) which gives me a break from the comfort sucking. She
> also seems to be smiling and happy a lot more...content would be a good
> word. Of course she's still nursing like crazy and acting like a
> typical 6 week old...but I really do see a change in her.
>
> As for the sleeping...Another minor miracle has occured. I read the
> book "The Happiest Baby on the Block" and watched the corresponding DVD
> on a friend's advice. I'm not going to say that the book is gospel and
> perfect in every way...but there is one thing from that book that has
> really helped me, and that's the emphasis it puts on swaddling.
>
> I used to swaddle dd in the hospital and in the first week or 2...but
> then I sort of abandoned it. It didn't seem to do any good. Little did
> I know I was doing it wrong...way too loosely, allowing her arms to get
> out. The DVD was a huge help, and now it's like a minor miracle has
> occured. DD has gone to sleep 5 times in a row now without problem, and
> I believe I owe it to swaddling. Now I know how to do it very snuggly,
> where her arms stay down at her sides. I can tell when she starts to
> get ready for a nap (or for sleep at night) and right away I swaddle
> her. An hour and a half ago she seemed tired, so I swaddled her, laid
> her in her crib, turned on her fisher-price aquarium (on the bubble
> setting) and walked out, leaving her there like a little mummy (not
> crying and with eyes wide open). Checked on her after a few minutes and
> she was sound asleep!
>
> So it might be a fluke...but I think the swaddling really has helped.
> Thank you to all of you here who offered that as advice as well.
>
> I'm sure I'll be back with other questions...and I hope to chime in with
> support for others as well, as soon as I have a bit more time and learn
> a bit more...
>
> Thanks,
> Kathy
>
>

I just read the description of the book at Amazon. I am curious, what is the
miracle blanket? I note that heartbeat to heartbeat was commented on so you
can shhh softly into the baby's ear. I do that. That's neat.

Anyway, congratulations! My sister totally seconds the swaddle thing.

S

[Al Bell]

(HollyLewis) writes:

>>I just needed a bit of a vent I guess. In a way I feel like I wasn't
>>given all of the info about BF'ing before I made the commitment to do
>>it.

>The reason you weren't given this info about bf-ing is that the struggles you
>are having with your daughter don't really have anything to do with bf-ing!
>She's a high-needs baby, apparently more so than the babies you've known who,
>it just so happens, were formula fed.

You're probably right, but how do folks here on the Internet know whether
a baby is a "high needs baby," rather than a hungry baby, unless you have
at least a little information about the baby's weight and growth rate?