beverages for a 1 year old :)

[Hillary Israeli]

OK, so, my now-1-yr-old daughter was given a sippy cup full of cow's milk
the other day, and she took a sip, and spit it out, and giggled. I tried
warming it. I tried cooling it. Same deal. OK.

So, I gave her a sippy cup full of breastmilk. She took a sip, spit it
out, and giggled. I tried cooling it (it was already warm, having been
offerred fresh from the tap as it were). No go. She does not want it. Ok.

While I am not in a situation where I "need" to abruptly wean her from the
breast or anything, and I am certainly not opposed to her continuing to
nurse throughout the next year and beyond if she so chooses, I have to say
I am not thrilled with her continuing to nurse *at the same frequency* she
now nurses - which is at bare minimum 5 times daily, and usually more. It
is the feeling of her being so dependent on me that gets to me. If I could
occasionally leave her for longer stretches of time without feeling like
"oh, I'm having fun, but I should be with Naomi, she probably wants to
nurse about now," I would feel better about things. Then I start
thinking, well, maybe she isn't really so dependent. I actually have left
her for long stretches several times in the past couple of weeks because I
have had to take my older son to the hospital (he's ok, but it's been a
long haul) and, for example, on Tuesday, I had gotten home from work at
about 12:30 and nursed Naomi, and then she fell asleep, and was sleeping
when I left the house at about 2 to take Jacob to the hospital. We didn't
get home til near 8 pm. That means I missed what would have ordinarily
been 3 nursing sessions or so (2ish, 5ish, 7:30). My husband reported that
at about 6 pm she seemed really crabby and looking for me, but she got
over it quickly. So she actually was NOT so upset about my not being
there. It seems that if I am not there, nursing isn't so important after
all. That makes me feel better from an emotional standpoint, but still - I
don't want to be avoiding her for the purpose of her not wanting to nurse.
I don't want to wean yet, even. I just want her to cut back!!

I had hoped that with the introduction of a milk beverage she might cut
back a bit, but that isn't looking very likely. She does drink water from
a sippy cup willingly.

So - any thoughts on getting her to cut back on her nursing, without
totally weaning, and on getting a beverage with a similar nutrient profile
to milk into her (or how to make it up with solids)?

My son self-weaned, I have no idea how to encourage dropping a nursing
session.

Thanks.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Mary W.]

Hillary Israeli wrote:

> I had hoped that with the introduction of a milk beverage she might cut
> back a bit, but that isn't looking very likely. She does drink water from
> a sippy cup willingly.

What about watering down the milk (ewwww...) and offering it, then
gradually decreasing the amount of water? Kind of gradually get her
used to the taste?

It took a bit of convincing to get my daughter to drink milk. I can't
remember how we actually did it - it probably happened when she
started daycare at 14 months. All the other kids were drinking
milk, so she did too (which is why she gets at least one good meal
a day, eats great at school, hardly at all at home!).

Mary

[Nikki]

Hillary Israeli wrote:

I don't
> want to wean yet, even. I just want her to cut back!!

I SO know what you are talking about!!

> I had hoped that with the introduction of a milk beverage she might
> cut back a bit, but that isn't looking very likely.

My expereince with the milk is that you just have to keep offering it.
Hunter took it rather quickly but then he was half starved because he was so
stubborn ;-) It took Luke about 2-3 months to get to the point where he
thought it was good stuff. It didn't really put a dent in his nursing
behavior though :-(

> So - any thoughts on getting her to cut back on her nursing, without
> totally weaning

It was exhausting to be truthful. I first eliminated the one minute snacks
which my 1yo's seem to love. I always had something to drink sitting around
and I tried never to sit down. That was hard. After that was accomplished
and old hat I tried to eliminate one nursing session (the one I thought they
were least attached to). That was also extremely difficult. Don't sit in
the nursing spot, offer snacks and drinks, stay outside until dark ;-). It
took me months and months to get down to 4 sessions a day and I couldn't get
lower then that, so I'm not much help :-( Other people have success so I'm
either lousy at it or I have extremely tenatious children.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

[Beth Kevles]

Hi -

Just get her to eat a healthy, varied diet with plenty of fluids. Don't
worry about milk per se; it's only one of many options. DO be sure she
drinks enough fluids, whatever kind she tries!

The problem may actually be the way she's been offered to drink. If a
sippy cup doesn't work (after several repetitions) try a bottle, or
regular cup, or a standard water bottle. See what works. Maybe a
straw?

--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
Beth Kevles > wrote:

*Just get her to eat a healthy, varied diet with plenty of fluids. Don't
*worry about milk per se; it's only one of many options. DO be sure she
*drinks enough fluids, whatever kind she tries!

Well, the "worst case scenario" is that she'll just keep on nursing a lot
and get her fluids that way :) (not that it's so terribly bad if she does
that. It's just not my "perfect world" situation). She does drink water
from a cup pretty well though.

* *The problem may actually be the way she's been offered to drink. If a
*sippy cup doesn't work (after several repetitions) try a bottle, or
*regular cup, or a standard water bottle. See what works. Maybe a
*straw?

Is it weird of me to not want to reintroduce a bottle at this age? she
hasn't had one since she was about 7 mos old. I just don't want her to get
attached to it - not that she was ever so keen on them in the first place,
she really just took barely enough EBM to get by til I got home :)

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Iuil]

"Hillary Israeli" wrote
>
> Is it weird of me to not want to reintroduce a bottle at this age? she
> hasn't had one since she was about 7 mos old. I just don't want her to get
> attached to it - not that she was ever so keen on them in the first place,
> she really just took barely enough EBM to get by til I got home :)
>

Nope, not weird. I didn't want to re-introduce a bottle either at the same
age and as it turned out, DD wasn't sure what to do with it on the couple of
days that I did try it.

Have you tried something like Rice Dream? DD took quite readily to that
because the consistency is more similar to ebm than cows' milk and it was a
taste that she was already familiar with (it does actually taste slightly of
boiled white rice). I just make sure that she gets a good intake of fats
and proteins from other sources as well as bfing several times a day.

Does she eat cheese or yoghurt? If so, that makes your life easier than
mine since she doesn't actually *need* to drink cows' milk in that case.
She can get her nutrional requirements from other dairy products and her
liquid from water (which I tend to push anyway).

Jean

--
HOLLY: Nothing wrong with dog's milk. Full of goodness, full of
vitamins, full of marrowbone jelly. Lasts longer than any other type
of milk, dog's milk.
LISTER: Why?
HOLLY: No bugger'll drink it. Plus the advantage of dog's milk is when
it goes off it takes exactly the same as when it's fresh.
LISTER: Why didn't you tell me, Holly?!
HOLLY: What, and spoil your tea?
(Red Dwarf: Series 2, Episode 1)

[Sharon]

(Hillary Israeli) wrote in message >...


> So - any thoughts on getting her to cut back on her nursing, without
> totally weaning, and on getting a beverage with a similar nutrient profile
> to milk into her (or how to make it up with solids)?


Well, I can't really offer any concrete suggestions for your question
above, since DS was allergic to dairy and refused to drink soy milk
and was not eating any solids at all - basically at a year all he
would drink was water, so I had to continue BF for nutritional
reasons. But I will say, magically at 15 months he went from nursing
6-7 times in a 24 hours period and no solids to nursing 3 times in a
24 hour period and consuming solids voraciously.

In terms of nutrition I continued with the BF, and offered as many
non-dairy sources of fat and calcium that I could think of, which he
thankfully consumed for the most part (salmon and broccoli were two of
his faves). Perhaps within a month or two Naomi will make the switch
too.

Sharon
Mom to James 6.2.00
EDD #2 5 December

[Bruce and Jeanne]

Hillary Israeli wrote:

> In >,
> Beth Kevles > wrote:
>
> *Just get her to eat a healthy, varied diet with plenty of fluids. Don't
> *worry about milk per se; it's only one of many options. DO be sure she
> *drinks enough fluids, whatever kind she tries!
>
> Well, the "worst case scenario" is that she'll just keep on nursing a lot
> and get her fluids that way :) (not that it's so terribly bad if she does
> that. It's just not my "perfect world" situation). She does drink water
> from a cup pretty well though.
>
> * *The problem may actually be the way she's been offered to drink. If a
> *sippy cup doesn't work (after several repetitions) try a bottle, or
> *regular cup, or a standard water bottle. See what works. Maybe a
> *straw?
>
> Is it weird of me to not want to reintroduce a bottle at this age? she
> hasn't had one since she was about 7 mos old. I just don't want her to get
> attached to it - not that she was ever so keen on them in the first place,
> she really just took barely enough EBM to get by til I got home :)
>


No, it's not weird. We didn't reintroduce the bottle to DD when she
turned one. It seemed logical (to me) that a toddler would drink from a
sippy cup or water bottle or even a regular cup with a cover and straw,
and bottles were for babies.

Jeanne

[badgirl]

"Hillary Israeli" > wrote in message >
> Is it weird of me to not want to reintroduce a bottle at this age? she
> hasn't had one since she was about 7 mos old. I just don't want her to get
> attached to it - not that she was ever so keen on them in the first place,
> she really just took barely enough EBM to get by til I got home :)
>


A straw should do the trick I would think. Nicolas learned how to use a
straw pretty early (I'm wanting to say 10 months but I can't really pin it
down) and that's his *method of choice* still at 17 months (where'd the time
go? Cripes my baby burrito is GONE LOL) I found a straw much easier than
messing with a bottle or sippy cup. ;)

Jen
> --
> hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
> "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
> not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
Iuil > wrote:

*Have you tried something like Rice Dream? DD took quite readily to that

No. I haven't. My pediatrician suggested trying soy milk, actually - she
said a lot of babies in her practice like it, and it comes in various
flavors. I might try that. I guess I'm just discouraged because as I said,
N refused even EBM in a cup, so I think it's more that she has the idea
that milky stuff shouldn't be in a cup, than her not liking the actual
beverage :)

*boiled white rice). I just make sure that she gets a good intake of fats
*and proteins from other sources as well as bfing several times a day.

Yes. The other factor here is I really don't want to reduce her overall
calorie or fat intake. She's already on the petite side (she weighed in at
exactly 8.5 lbs today at one year) and she has fallen off her growth
curve. My pediatrician isn't particularly alarmed. She told me not to
worry, but that if the falling-off trend continued, we'd look into it at
the next visit. I just plotted her growth myself on a CDC chart. She
started life at 50th %ile, bobbled between 50-25%ile during the first six
months (kinda bouncing between those two numbers), was at just under 25th
at 9 mos, and now is just above 10th. This worries me as a mother,
although she LOOKS fine (just small). Her height started around 50th, got
as high as 75th at 4 mos, then back to just under 50th where it has been
for the past six mos. So she's clearly not a huge kid, I just don't like
how her weight dropped off like that.

*Does she eat cheese or yoghurt? If so, that makes your life easier than
*mine since she doesn't actually *need* to drink cows' milk in that case.
*She can get her nutrional requirements from other dairy products and her
*liquid from water (which I tend to push anyway).

She eats yogurt. I guess we'll see how it goes.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Sue]

I think you need to keep offering it Hillary. Just because she doesn't drink
it the first time doesn't mean she won't ever take it.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

> Yes. The other factor here is I really don't want to reduce her overall
> calorie or fat intake. She's already on the petite side (she weighed in at
> exactly 8.5 lbs today at one year) and she has fallen off her growth
> curve. My pediatrician isn't particularly alarmed. She told me not to
> worry, but that if the falling-off trend continued, we'd look into it at
> the next visit. I just plotted her growth myself on a CDC chart. She
> started life at 50th %ile, bobbled between 50-25%ile during the first six
> months (kinda bouncing between those two numbers), was at just under 25th
> at 9 mos, and now is just above 10th. This worries me as a mother,
> although she LOOKS fine (just small). Her height started around 50th, got
> as high as 75th at 4 mos, then back to just under 50th where it has been
> for the past six mos. So she's clearly not a huge kid, I just don't like
> how her weight dropped off like that.
>
> *Does she eat cheese or yoghurt? If so, that makes your life easier than
> *mine since she doesn't actually *need* to drink cows' milk in that case.
> *She can get her nutrional requirements from other dairy products and her
> *liquid from water (which I tend to push anyway).
>
> She eats yogurt. I guess we'll see how it goes.
>
> --
> hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
> "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
> not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[CY]

I know it might be a bit wierd for others, but my DD loves it when I drink
hot tea and thinks it's pretty funny that she isn't allowed to touch the hot
cup. She wants to taste it just because I am drinking it, so I bought her a
little plastic cup with a handle (looks just like mine) and put some hot
water from the kettle in it and added cow milk and told her it was tea. She
LOVES it this way. Open cups are just more appealing to her than a sippy,
straw or any other. Not much help if your DD doesn't like to copy and YMMV,
but just thought I'd drop it in there!

Good luck!

CY
"Hillary Israeli" > wrote in message
...
> OK, so, my now-1-yr-old daughter was given a sippy cup full of cow's milk
> the other day, and she took a sip, and spit it out, and giggled. I tried
> warming it. I tried cooling it. Same deal. OK.
>
> So, I gave her a sippy cup full of breastmilk. She took a sip, spit it
> out, and giggled. I tried cooling it (it was already warm, having been
> offerred fresh from the tap as it were). No go. She does not want it. Ok.
>
> While I am not in a situation where I "need" to abruptly wean her from the
> breast or anything, and I am certainly not opposed to her continuing to
> nurse throughout the next year and beyond if she so chooses, I have to say
> I am not thrilled with her continuing to nurse *at the same frequency* she
> now nurses - which is at bare minimum 5 times daily, and usually more. It
> is the feeling of her being so dependent on me that gets to me. If I could
> occasionally leave her for longer stretches of time without feeling like
> "oh, I'm having fun, but I should be with Naomi, she probably wants to
> nurse about now," I would feel better about things. Then I start
> thinking, well, maybe she isn't really so dependent. I actually have left
> her for long stretches several times in the past couple of weeks because I
> have had to take my older son to the hospital (he's ok, but it's been a
> long haul) and, for example, on Tuesday, I had gotten home from work at
> about 12:30 and nursed Naomi, and then she fell asleep, and was sleeping
> when I left the house at about 2 to take Jacob to the hospital. We didn't
> get home til near 8 pm. That means I missed what would have ordinarily
> been 3 nursing sessions or so (2ish, 5ish, 7:30). My husband reported that
> at about 6 pm she seemed really crabby and looking for me, but she got
> over it quickly. So she actually was NOT so upset about my not being
> there. It seems that if I am not there, nursing isn't so important after
> all. That makes me feel better from an emotional standpoint, but still - I
> don't want to be avoiding her for the purpose of her not wanting to nurse.
> I don't want to wean yet, even. I just want her to cut back!!
>
> I had hoped that with the introduction of a milk beverage she might cut
> back a bit, but that isn't looking very likely. She does drink water from
> a sippy cup willingly.
>
> So - any thoughts on getting her to cut back on her nursing, without
> totally weaning, and on getting a beverage with a similar nutrient profile
> to milk into her (or how to make it up with solids)?
>
> My son self-weaned, I have no idea how to encourage dropping a nursing
> session.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
> "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
> not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[news.eclipse.co.uk]

"Hillary Israeli" > wrote in message
...
> OK, so, my now-1-yr-old daughter was given a sippy cup full of cow's milk
> the other day, and she took a sip, and spit it out, and giggled. I tried
> warming it. I tried cooling it. Same deal. OK.
>
> So, I gave her a sippy cup full of breastmilk. She took a sip, spit it
> out, and giggled. I tried cooling it (it was already warm, having been
> offerred fresh from the tap as it were). No go. She does not want it. Ok.
>
> While I am not in a situation where I "need" to abruptly wean her from the
> breast or anything, and I am certainly not opposed to her continuing to
> nurse throughout the next year and beyond if she so chooses, I have to say
> I am not thrilled with her continuing to nurse *at the same frequency* she
> now nurses - which is at bare minimum 5 times daily, and usually more. It
> is the feeling of her being so dependent on me that gets to me. If I could
> occasionally leave her for longer stretches of time without feeling like
> "oh, I'm having fun, but I should be with Naomi, she probably wants to
> nurse about now," I would feel better about things. Then I start
> thinking, well, maybe she isn't really so dependent. I actually have left
> her for long stretches several times in the past couple of weeks because I
> have had to take my older son to the hospital (he's ok, but it's been a
> long haul) and, for example, on Tuesday, I had gotten home from work at
> about 12:30 and nursed Naomi, and then she fell asleep, and was sleeping
> when I left the house at about 2 to take Jacob to the hospital. We didn't
> get home til near 8 pm. That means I missed what would have ordinarily
> been 3 nursing sessions or so (2ish, 5ish, 7:30). My husband reported that
> at about 6 pm she seemed really crabby and looking for me, but she got
> over it quickly. So she actually was NOT so upset about my not being
> there. It seems that if I am not there, nursing isn't so important after
> all. That makes me feel better from an emotional standpoint, but still - I
> don't want to be avoiding her for the purpose of her not wanting to nurse.
> I don't want to wean yet, even. I just want her to cut back!!
>
> I had hoped that with the introduction of a milk beverage she might cut
> back a bit, but that isn't looking very likely. She does drink water from
> a sippy cup willingly.
>
> So - any thoughts on getting her to cut back on her nursing, without
> totally weaning, and on getting a beverage with a similar nutrient profile
> to milk into her (or how to make it up with solids)?
>
> My son self-weaned, I have no idea how to encourage dropping a nursing
> session.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
>

Hi Hilary

It's a tough age I think. I think what with them walking etc, part of us
feels they 'shouldn't' need to nurse as much as they did before, but somehow
they do and it can be frustrating. I remember that time clearly (mine is now
3, weaned at 2 yrs 8 months) and part of me wanted to shout 'but look you're
not a tiny baby anymore, you can't possibly need this much milk!!'.

Firstly remember that it is a hard time for them too. All of that
independence away from mother makes them want to cling sometimes as their
base from which they go out into the world.

I found that if you can get through to 18 months they start dropping nursing
sessions like flies. But here's a few things to do in the meantime. One,
don't worry about the drinks. Mine never drank milk and even now only drinks
water (with a v. occasional hot chocolate). Your child isn't really nursing
for anything other than habit and emotional need, although they will get
other things at the same time, obviously. So as you say, when you're not
there, she can miss a nursing session or two, but by the time number 3 has
come round she's getting a little antsy and looking for Mommy. She needs her
fix!

I can only echo what (the other ) Nikki said. Try altering routines. I found
that mine didn't want to nurse while we were out and about, so we went out a
lot. I tried to work out which were the 'HAD to' nursings and which were the
'hey Mom's there think I fancy a nurse'. I avoided the times and situations
where nursing was a norm as much as I could.

Also watch your own behaviour. I'll bet you'd be surprised how many times
you offer the breast without realising. I stopped offering, but did it
whenever she asked. Then I switched to saying No sometimes. If she freaked
out, I deemed it important and fed her. But she amazed me from very early
(around 13 or 14 months I guess) by sometimes shrugging her shoulders and
walking off! I would also end nursing sessions if she wasn't really feeding,
just playing.

I know many are total child-led weaning advocates. I suppose I'm not one of
those. I wanted to never, ever force her to stop breastfeeding, I wanted it
to end as wonderfully and as gently as it started. But I did want to
encourage her in the direction, and so I did.

As I said, by 18 months, I'd managed to get her to drop all but the
important nursings, which at that time I guess meant keeping 3 or 4 a day
but dropping most of the mini snacks. I kept water available constantly. I
distracted like crazy. But then she started dropping even the nursings I
never dreamed she would drop (like the one after a 6 hour gap from me at
nursery) - one day she just came home and forgot and went to play with her
brother! I couldn't believe it! By 2 she was only nursing morning and night,
by 2 and 4 months only at bedtime for about 3 mins, then we quit 4 months
later.

Now she tortures me by using a breadstick in place of a bottle to feed her
baby!! Agh! And when I tell her that's not how Mommies feed their babies
(she did used to breastfeed her dolls) she insists it is! Am I being
punished for something?!

Good luck
Nikki

[Clisby]

Hillary Israeli wrote:
> In >,
> Iuil > wrote:
>
> *Have you tried something like Rice Dream? DD took quite readily to that
>
> No. I haven't. My pediatrician suggested trying soy milk, actually - she
> said a lot of babies in her practice like it, and it comes in various
> flavors. I might try that. I guess I'm just discouraged because as I said,
> N refused even EBM in a cup, so I think it's more that she has the idea
> that milky stuff shouldn't be in a cup, than her not liking the actual
> beverage :)
>
> *boiled white rice). I just make sure that she gets a good intake of fats
> *and proteins from other sources as well as bfing several times a day.
>
> Yes. The other factor here is I really don't want to reduce her overall
> calorie or fat intake. She's already on the petite side (she weighed in at
> exactly 8.5 lbs today at one year)

I hope the above weight is a typo. Did you mean 18.5?

Clisby

(thinking Hillary is a little blase about an 8.5-pound 1 year old.)



and she has fallen off her growth
> curve. My pediatrician isn't particularly alarmed. She told me not to
> worry, but that if the falling-off trend continued, we'd look into it at
> the next visit. I just plotted her growth myself on a CDC chart. She
> started life at 50th %ile, bobbled between 50-25%ile during the first six
> months (kinda bouncing between those two numbers), was at just under 25th
> at 9 mos, and now is just above 10th. This worries me as a mother,
> although she LOOKS fine (just small). Her height started around 50th, got
> as high as 75th at 4 mos, then back to just under 50th where it has been
> for the past six mos. So she's clearly not a huge kid, I just don't like
> how her weight dropped off like that.
>
> *Does she eat cheese or yoghurt? If so, that makes your life easier than
> *mine since she doesn't actually *need* to drink cows' milk in that case.
> *She can get her nutrional requirements from other dairy products and her
> *liquid from water (which I tend to push anyway).
>
> She eats yogurt. I guess we'll see how it goes.
>

[Iuil]

"Hillary Israeli" wrote
>
> *Have you tried something like Rice Dream? DD took quite readily to that
>
> No. I haven't. My pediatrician suggested trying soy milk, actually - she
> said a lot of babies in her practice like it, and it comes in various
> flavors. I might try that. I guess I'm just discouraged because as I said,
> N refused even EBM in a cup, so I think it's more that she has the idea
> that milky stuff shouldn't be in a cup, than her not liking the actual
> beverage :)
>

S refused ebm in a cup (and a bottle and any other way you can think of)
last June. That's when I stopped pumping and started the Rice Dream and
soya milk. She takes both, though not in huge amounts, maybe 4-6 ounces a
day. She also drinks about 4 ounces of water a day.

> *boiled white rice). I just make sure that she gets a good intake of fats
> *and proteins from other sources as well as bfing several times a day.
>
> Yes. The other factor here is I really don't want to reduce her overall
> calorie or fat intake.

Rice Dream has sunflower oil added - it's got the same calorie and fat
content as semi-skimmed milk (2%?). You do need to ensure other fat intake
with it.

She's already on the petite side (she weighed in at
> exactly 8.5 lbs today at one year) and she has fallen off her growth
> curve. <snip> This worries me as a mother,


Bwahhaha - you're telling *me* about being obsessed with a kid's weight! I
don't track percentiles anymore - I stick her on the scales in the pharmacy
when it looks like she's outgrowing her clothes and that's about it.


> *Does she eat cheese or yoghurt?
>
> She eats yogurt. I guess we'll see how it goes.

Don't stress over it - you've enough going on right now. Naomi knows what's
best for her instinctively. There could be some underlying temporary
intolerence that you don't know about.

Jean
--
HOLLY: Nothing wrong with dog's milk. Full of goodness, full of
vitamins, full of marrowbone jelly. Lasts longer than any other type
of milk, dog's milk.
LISTER: Why?
HOLLY: No bugger'll drink it. Plus the advantage of dog's milk is when
it goes off it takes exactly the same as when it's fresh.
LISTER: Why didn't you tell me, Holly?!
HOLLY: What, and spoil your tea?
(Red Dwarf: Series 2, Episode 1)

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
Clisby > wrote:

*> calorie or fat intake. She's already on the petite side (she weighed in at
*> exactly 8.5 lbs today at one year)
*
*I hope the above weight is a typo. Did you mean 18.5?

ACK! YES! OF COURSE!!
/me calms down a bit.

My keyboard is full of cat hair. I need to vacuum it. 18.5 lbs. Actually
18 pounds, 8.6 oz to be more precise :)

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Clisby]

Hillary Israeli wrote:
> In >,
> Clisby > wrote:
>
> *> calorie or fat intake. She's already on the petite side (she weighed in at
> *> exactly 8.5 lbs today at one year)
> *
> *I hope the above weight is a typo. Did you mean 18.5?
>
> ACK! YES! OF COURSE!!
> /me calms down a bit.
>
> My keyboard is full of cat hair. I need to vacuum it. 18.5 lbs. Actually
> 18 pounds, 8.6 oz to be more precise :)
>


I thought maybe you were going by the growth charts for a cat.

Clisby

[H Schinske]

wrote:

>Now she tortures me by using a breadstick in place of a bottle to feed her
>baby!! Agh! And when I tell her that's not how Mommies feed their babies
>(she did used to breastfeed her dolls) she insists it is! Am I being
>punished for something?!

It's just one of those toddler articulation things -- she's breadfeeding her
dolls! ;-) ;-)

--Helen

[news.eclipse.co.uk]

"Hillary Israeli" > wrote in message
...
> In >,
> Clisby > wrote:
>
> *> calorie or fat intake. She's already on the petite side (she weighed in
at
> *> exactly 8.5 lbs today at one year)
> *
> *I hope the above weight is a typo. Did you mean 18.5?
>
> ACK! YES! OF COURSE!!
> /me calms down a bit.
>
> My keyboard is full of cat hair. I need to vacuum it. 18.5 lbs. Actually
> 18 pounds, 8.6 oz to be more precise :)
>

Hey well mine was 17lbs and 6 oz the day before her 1st birthday. Maybe
she's just petite naturally.

Nikki

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
Sue > wrote:

*I think you need to keep offering it Hillary. Just because she doesn't drink
*it the first time doesn't mean she won't ever take it.

Well, I've been offering it with every meal and she's continuing to spit
it out. She did, however, take about a tablespoon or so of
vanilla-flavored fortified soy milk today, from a SPOON!! Silly baby.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[HollyLewis]

>So - any thoughts on getting her to cut back on her nursing, without
>totally weaning, and on getting a beverage with a similar nutrient profile
>to milk into her (or how to make it up with solids)?
>
>My son self-weaned, I have no idea how to encourage dropping a nursing
>session.
>
>Thanks.
>

Hillary, now is not the time! Wait until your life has settled back into some
kind of more normal routine and you all are well and under less stress.

Then, don't bother with offering cow's milk as a substitute; I think it's a bad
habit to get into, nutritionally. You may recall that DS was completely off
ebm for a good 2 or 3 months before he drank any cows' milk.

The best "substitute" for a nursing session is physical activity. If you want
to discourage nursing at a particular time, don't sit down. Take her for a
walk. Or, as you've discovered, leave her. :-) Work on one time of day at a
time -- pick the one she seems least attached to first -- and try to simply be
involved in something active, or not there, at that time every day for a week
or two. After that, she'll be used to not nursing at that time, and if that
seems to be going well after a while you can work on the next time of day.
OTOH, if it's not working well, go ahead and return to your former schedule,
and try again later. (We did that with the after-work nursing session, which I
found it was not a good idea to drop at 15 months but was dropped easily at 18
months.)

IIRC, Naomi's not big on solids in general, so you may have to live with her
nursing a bit more than you'd like for a while longer. I never worried about
the nutritional aspect because C was an enthusiastic eater, of just about
everything. At 13 months he was nursing 3 times a day and eating plenty of
cereals, cheese, veggies and meat. But you can certainly, at the very least,
work on getting her into a more regular nursing schedule, so that you feel more
free to leave her for longer periods.

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
HollyLewis > wrote:

*>So - any thoughts on getting her to cut back on her nursing, without
*>totally weaning, and on getting a beverage with a similar nutrient profile
*>to milk into her (or how to make it up with solids)?
*>
*>My son self-weaned, I have no idea how to encourage dropping a nursing
*>session.
*
*Hillary, now is not the time! Wait until your life has settled back into some
*kind of more normal routine and you all are well and under less stress.

Yeah, you're probably right. Of course you do realize that the stress is
probably a large part of why I feel overwhelmed with all the nursing right
now, and once things are back to semi-normal I might not care so much how
often she nurses :) (or not).

I actually had a really nice chat with a complete stranger today at the
bookstore (I had planned to do some shopping at a local shopping center -
I had to return some stuff to Bed Bath and Beyond. N fell asleep in the
car and rather than try to carry her, sleeping, into BBB with all the
stuff to return, we went into a bookstore to sit and let her nap. It was a
nice break!). Anyway this woman was a kindred spirit. She was alone, but
spoke of her 3 year old being in preschool this morning. She mentioned the
three year old was not yet weaned. So I talked about my frustration lately
and she really made me feel a lot better by sharing her own experiences
with a 3 year old who, at this time, is nursing almost as often as my 1
year old does, except that this lady is 8 mos pregnant, so it's even more
frustrating for her. Misery loves company I guess.

*Then, don't bother with offering cow's milk as a substitute; I think it's a bad
*habit to get into, nutritionally. You may recall that DS was completely off
*ebm for a good 2 or 3 months before he drank any cows' milk.

Well. I don't know that I agree completely. Milk is a convenient way to
get certain vitamins and nutrients, and if there is no intolerance or
allergy I don't see the problem. But that's neither here nor there.

*The best "substitute" for a nursing session is physical activity. If you want
*to discourage nursing at a particular time, don't sit down. Take her for a
*walk. Or, as you've discovered, leave her. :-) Work on one time of day at a
*time -- pick the one she seems least attached to first -- and try to simply be
*involved in something active, or not there, at that time every day for a week
*or two. After that, she'll be used to not nursing at that time, and if that
*seems to be going well after a while you can work on the next time of day.

I guess it's just that this seems like such an active attempt at weaning,
and it makes me feel guilty, like if I were a "good mom" I would just let
her nurse as much as she wants and I wouldn't make any attempt to cut her
off. Whereas I'd like her to do it more on her own - or at least with
simple gentle encouragement, rather than my just leaving. You know. I want
it the way I want it, not the way it is! :) :)

*IIRC, Naomi's not big on solids in general, so you may have to live with her
*nursing a bit more than you'd like for a while longer. I never worried about

Well, she's eating a lot more now, actually. She's very much into this
bean/lentil/barley/turkey stew I make (with jalapenos!), and she loves
fresh fruits and stuff...

*the nutritional aspect because C was an enthusiastic eater, of just about
*everything. At 13 months he was nursing 3 times a day and eating plenty of
*cereals, cheese, veggies and meat. But you can certainly, at the very least,
*work on getting her into a more regular nursing schedule, so that you feel more
*free to leave her for longer periods.

Yes, I should probably try to make it more regular. It's just, well, for
example today, I ended up entering that bookstore at about 20 past 9; N
slept til maybe 10:15, and then between 10:15 and 11:30 she nursed at
least 3 or 4 times. I remember she woke up and giggled and flirted with
this woman I was talking to for a while, then got fussy and wanted to
nurse so she did, for about 15 minutes, finally going back to sleep for a
little bit. Then she got up and played with my coffee cup for a bit and
then nursed again for about 10 minutes. Then she cruised among the chairs
for a while and then came back to nurse for about 5 minutes. She has
always been more of a grazer than a - what is the opposite of grazer,
anyway? But it just starts to grate on me after a while.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[HollyLewis]

>Yeah, you're probably right. Of course you do realize that the stress is
>probably a large part of why I feel overwhelmed with all the nursing right
>now, and once things are back to semi-normal I might not care so much how
>often she nurses :) (or not).

I did think of that. :-) But still.


>Well. I don't know that I agree completely. Milk is a convenient way to
>get certain vitamins and nutrients, and if there is no intolerance or
>allergy I don't see the problem. But that's neither here nor there.
>

I just see so many people trying to force cows' milk into their kids, or
substituting milk directly for formula the moment the kid turns 1 year. It
seems like far more young children get too much milk than not enough. Naomi's
still nursing and she eats yogurt; she'll get plenty of the nutrients she'd
otherwise get from cows' milk that way.

>I guess it's just that this seems like such an active attempt at weaning,
>and it makes me feel guilty, like if I were a "good mom" I would just let
>her nurse as much as she wants and I wouldn't make any attempt to cut her
>off.

Welcome to the world of toddler nursing. :-) (Okay, I know J was technically
an extended nurser, but you know what I mean.) Part of being a "good mom" when
you are extended nursing is teaching nursing manners.

Anyway, you're not cutting her off. Just cutting down.

>Yes, I should probably try to make it more regular. It's just, well, for
>example today, I ended up entering that bookstore at about 20 past 9; N
>slept til maybe 10:15, and then between 10:15 and 11:30 she nursed at
>least 3 or 4 times. I remember she woke up and giggled and flirted with
>this woman I was talking to for a while, then got fussy and wanted to
>nurse so she did, for about 15 minutes, finally going back to sleep for a
>little bit. Then she got up and played with my coffee cup for a bit and
>then nursed again for about 10 minutes. Then she cruised among the chairs
>for a while and then came back to nurse for about 5 minutes. She has
>always been more of a grazer than a - what is the opposite of grazer,
>anyway? But it just starts to grate on me after a while.

That would drive me stark raving mad! So, you know, as far as letting her
nurse as much as she wants, I guess you get more good mommy points than I do; I
would have bitten her head off after the second time. Well, no, not really.
But I would have been exasperated, and probably would have leapt up and bundled
her back into the car in order to distract her.

Fortunately for me, mine was and is most definitely not a grazer.

Holly
Mom to Camden, 2.5 yrs

[Mike Fessler]

(Hillary Israeli) wrote:

You might try offering soy milk. Ariella likes Silk. She is 2 1/2, is still
nursed a couple of times a day, but never liked cow's milk. Silk (or Trader
Joes' soymilk) is a big hit, though. She is also little -- from 50th %ile
length/weight at birth, she dropped at age 3 months to 10th/50th, where she has
hovered ever since. (She's now 2 1/2)

BTW, I think I'm in your neck of the woods (Mt. Airy, Phila.)

--Michael Fessler