OT really can't cope

[teapot]

I can't run on no sleep, I really can't and now the kitchen roof is
leaking,

There was nothing I could do for teh moo last nigt that would make him
happy, we are both miserable

teapot

[Anne Rogers]

> I can't run on no sleep, I really can't and now the kitchen roof is
> leaking,
>
> There was nothing I could do for teh moo last nigt that would make him
> happy, we are both miserable

(((hugs))) is he waking because he is hungry, or for other reasons? IIRC
he's now past 5 months, perhaps now is the time for some gentle sleep
training?

As a temporary measure can you get someone to sort him out at night other
than when he needs feeding? Me and my husband decided that the best
strategy for us was to share it evenly, not I work part time anyway, it
seems fair.

[Andrea]

"teapot" > wrote in message
om...
> I can't run on no sleep, I really can't and now the kitchen roof is
> leaking,
>
> There was nothing I could do for teh moo last nigt that would make him
> happy, we are both miserable
>
> teapot

Aw teapot, has the moo boy got a runny nose or anything else? There is one
bitch of a bug around here at the moment, lasts 2 weeks! I am caring for 5
kids and a sick husband now.
I bet ur moo is teething, Kam's teething signs are chewing on fists while
screaming, and being fussy/clamping gums on the booby.
I would put some teething gel on him just in case, I think the most painful
part of teething is right before the teeth/tooth emerge. If you can't settle
him you can give him calpol or medised (both have versions from 3 months),
if he has a cold. It has a light sedative in it. It has helped mine to
sleep.
I have taken to napping whenever it's possible, I am going to dash out to
the shops for emergency supplies.
Forget your housework, send your bloke for goodies that don't require
cooking, get on your jammies and tuck you and the moo in bed or on the sofa
in front of the tv.
I don't have a lot of advice on the roof issue, apart from is your house
owned? If not the council or landlord should be fixing it. Otherwise have
you a mate or family member who could give you a hand?

--
Andrea mom of 5 - latest addition Kamron David 5 months 20lbs

[Lara]

Andrea > wrote:

> I bet ur moo is teething, Kam's teething signs are chewing on fists while
> screaming, and being fussy/clamping gums on the booby.
> I would put some teething gel on him just in case, I think the most painful
> part of teething is right before the teeth/tooth emerge. If you can't settle
> him you can give him calpol or medised (both have versions from 3 months),

I'm kinda surprised they get away with that labelling, frankly. OTC
diphenhydramine in a three month old? It's been linked with SIDS and
apnoea. Here they say "not to be used children under two without medical
advice", and no manufacturer will even begin to list a dose for a baby
under six months. In good news, Benadryl here correctly list their
products as "may be used in breastfeeding" rather than giving the
knee-jerk CYA advice on choosing between the medication and
breastfeeding.

Plain paracetamol plus or minus teething gel works brilliantly for Luke
when he's teething. Just measure the dose carefully, teapot - check it
twice, and preferably get someone else to check it too, especially given
how tired you are. When we give it to Luke we always write the time down
on the kitchen whiteboard, too, so neither of us can accidentally give
him a second dose within the four-hour limit.

Lara

[Andrea]

"Lara" wrote in message ...
> Andrea wrote:
>
> > I bet ur moo is teething, Kam's teething signs are chewing on fists
while
> > screaming, and being fussy/clamping gums on the booby.
> > I would put some teething gel on him just in case, I think the most
painful
> > part of teething is right before the teeth/tooth emerge. If you can't
settle
> > him you can give him calpol or medised (both have versions from 3
months),
>
> I'm kinda surprised they get away with that labelling, frankly. OTC
> diphenhydramine in a three month old? It's been linked with SIDS and
> apnoea. Here they say "not to be used children under two without medical
> advice", and no manufacturer will even begin to list a dose for a baby
> under six months. In good news, Benadryl here correctly list their
> products as "may be used in breastfeeding" rather than giving the
> knee-jerk CYA advice on choosing between the medication and
> breastfeeding.
>
Medised have a version of their meds that is from 3 months. It's available
to buy in any pharmacy here in the UK.

> Plain paracetamol plus or minus teething gel works brilliantly for Luke
> when he's teething. Just measure the dose carefully, teapot - check it
> twice, and preferably get someone else to check it too, especially given
> how tired you are. When we give it to Luke we always write the time down
> on the kitchen whiteboard, too, so neither of us can accidentally give
> him a second dose within the four-hour limit.
>
> Lara

Baby paracetamol isn't that bad. A friend of mines kid age 5 drank an entire
large bottle of 6+ calpol, and went to the hospital for obs. The doc said it
was fine and it showed the paracetamol levels in the blood, and he also said
that a child would have to drink more than one bottle to be harmed in any
way.
My dr also told me to double the usual dosage of calpol, while he is
feverish during this flu bug.

--
Andrea mom of 5 - latest addition Kamron David 5 months 20lbs

[Andrea]

"Andrea" wrote in message ...

> My dr also told me to double the usual dosage of calpol, while he is
> feverish during this flu bug.

Kamron that is, I expect you to be psychic!

--
Andrea mom of 5 - latest addition Kamron David 5 months 20lbs

[Andrea]

"Lara" > wrote in message
...
> Andrea > wrote:
>
> > I bet ur moo is teething, Kam's teething signs are chewing on fists
while
> > screaming, and being fussy/clamping gums on the booby.
> > I would put some teething gel on him just in case, I think the most
painful
> > part of teething is right before the teeth/tooth emerge. If you can't
settle
> > him you can give him calpol or medised (both have versions from 3
months),
>
> I'm kinda surprised they get away with that labelling, frankly. OTC
> diphenhydramine in a three month old? It's been linked with SIDS and
> apnoea. Here they say "not to be used children under two without medical
> advice", and no manufacturer will even begin to list a dose for a baby
> under six months. In good news, Benadryl here correctly list their
> products as "may be used in breastfeeding" rather than giving the
> knee-jerk CYA advice on choosing between the medication and
> breastfeeding.

> Lara

Here it is http://tinyurl.com/w3my I wonder why it's on sale here if it's
so bad?

--
Andrea mom of 5 - latest addition Kamron David 5 months 20lbs

[Lara]

Andrea > wrote:

> "Lara" wrote in message ...
> > I'm kinda surprised they get away with that labelling, frankly. OTC
> > diphenhydramine in a three month old? It's been linked with SIDS and
> > apnoea. Here they say "not to be used children under two without medical
> > advice", and no manufacturer will even begin to list a dose for a baby
> > under six months. In good news, Benadryl here correctly list their
> > products as "may be used in breastfeeding" rather than giving the
> > knee-jerk CYA advice on choosing between the medication and
> > breastfeeding.
> >
> Medised have a version of their meds that is from 3 months. It's available
> to buy in any pharmacy here in the UK.

Yes, I know. Hence my surprise.

> > Plain paracetamol plus or minus teething gel works brilliantly for Luke
> > when he's teething. Just measure the dose carefully, teapot - check it
> > twice, and preferably get someone else to check it too, especially given
> > how tired you are. When we give it to Luke we always write the time down
> > on the kitchen whiteboard, too, so neither of us can accidentally give
> > him a second dose within the four-hour limit.
>
> Baby paracetamol isn't that bad.

I disagree.

> A friend of mines kid age 5 drank an entire
> large bottle of 6+ calpol, and went to the hospital for obs. The doc said it
> was fine and it showed the paracetamol levels in the blood, and he also said
> that a child would have to drink more than one bottle to be harmed in any
> way.

250 mg per 5 ml. 100 ml bottle. That's 5 grams of paracetamol. >12
grams can be fatal to an adult in a single dose, even less in a person
with liver disease. >150 mg/kg in a child can cause serious liver
damage. This child was lucky.
http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/chart.html

There have been recent reports of severe liver damage in children given
repeated doses of paracetamol over a period of several days. One boy
actually died from repeated (presumably correctly measured) doses given
while he was in hospital.

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_9_011199/hynson/hynson.html

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_9_011199/miles/miles.html

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/27/1064083244317.html?from=storyr
hs

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/08/09/1028158016234.html

> My dr also told me to double the usual dosage of calpol, while he is
> feverish during this flu bug.

That's between you and your doctor, I guess. I would never, ever
recommend that.

Lara

[Andrea]

"Lara" > wrote in message
...
> Andrea > wrote:
>
> > "Lara" wrote in message ...
> > > I'm kinda surprised they get away with that labelling, frankly. OTC
> > > diphenhydramine in a three month old? It's been linked with SIDS and
> > > apnoea. Here they say "not to be used children under two without
medical
> > > advice", and no manufacturer will even begin to list a dose for a baby
> > > under six months. In good news, Benadryl here correctly list their
> > > products as "may be used in breastfeeding" rather than giving the
> > > knee-jerk CYA advice on choosing between the medication and
> > > breastfeeding.
> > >
> > Medised have a version of their meds that is from 3 months. It's
available
> > to buy in any pharmacy here in the UK.
>
> Yes, I know. Hence my surprise.
>
> > > Plain paracetamol plus or minus teething gel works brilliantly for
Luke
> > > when he's teething. Just measure the dose carefully, teapot - check it
> > > twice, and preferably get someone else to check it too, especially
given
> > > how tired you are. When we give it to Luke we always write the time
down
> > > on the kitchen whiteboard, too, so neither of us can accidentally give
> > > him a second dose within the four-hour limit.
> >
> > Baby paracetamol isn't that bad.
>
> I disagree.
>
> > A friend of mines kid age 5 drank an entire
> > large bottle of 6+ calpol, and went to the hospital for obs. The doc
said it
> > was fine and it showed the paracetamol levels in the blood, and he also
said
> > that a child would have to drink more than one bottle to be harmed in
any
> > way.
>
> 250 mg per 5 ml. 100 ml bottle. That's 5 grams of paracetamol. >12
> grams can be fatal to an adult in a single dose, even less in a person
> with liver disease. >150 mg/kg in a child can cause serious liver
> damage. This child was lucky.
> http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/chart.html
>
> Lara


Here is a snippet from your link;

Management of CHILDREN (<12 years) who present within 8 hours of
ingestion

Paracetamol poisoning with children's liquid preparations is rarely
serious. However, children poisoned with adult paracetamol preparations may
be at risk of serious liver and renal damage.



The risk is high if a child is overdosed with ADULT paracetamol doses.

--
Andrea mom of 5 - latest addition Kamron David 5 months 20lbs

[Nina]

I had one of those weeks too. AUtistic child kept waking up at 130 am, baby
kept waking up, I got no sleep because once they were ins chool, Id get a
call for him sayinghe was misbehaving. THEN once I got him home, I couldnt
sleep because he ran away. *sigh*
Motherhood!
"teapot" > wrote in message
om...
> I can't run on no sleep, I really can't and now the kitchen roof is
> leaking,
>
> There was nothing I could do for teh moo last nigt that would make him
> happy, we are both miserable
>
> teapot

[Sue]

Have you ruled out an illness? Have you taken him to the doctor at all?
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

teapot > wrote in message
om...
> I can't run on no sleep, I really can't and now the kitchen roof is
> leaking,
>
> There was nothing I could do for teh moo last nigt that would make him
> happy, we are both miserable
>
> teapot

[Jacqui]

Lara wibbled

> Plain paracetamol plus or minus teething gel works brilliantly for
> Luke when he's teething. Just measure the dose carefully, teapot -
> check it twice, and preferably get someone else to check it too,
> especially given how tired you are.

Most baby paracetamol here (Calpol, Boots own etc) comes in one-dose
sachets (10 in a box) so you cannot overdose the child. The only time
it's an issue is 2 month injections, when you are supposed to give half
the dose - that led to a sticky moment or two when we tried to fold
down the sachet with the remaining halfdose in it... ;-)

Jac

[Jacqui]

Andrea wibbled
> Lara wrote

>> I'm kinda surprised they get away with that labelling, frankly.
>> OTC diphenhydramine in a three month old? It's been linked with
>> SIDS and apnoea. Here they say "not to be used children under two
>> without medical advice", and no manufacturer will even begin to
>> list a dose for a baby under six months. In good news, Benadryl
>> here correctly list their products as "may be used in
>> breastfeeding" rather than giving the knee-jerk CYA advice on
>> choosing between the medication and breastfeeding.
>>
> Medised have a version of their meds that is from 3 months. It's
> available to buy in any pharmacy here in the UK.

It does not contain diphenhydramine (which *is* in Tixycolds, Tixylix,
Uniflu and their variants).

http://bnf.org/bnf/bnf/current/doc/119641.htm

Jac

[Sue]

Andrea > wrote in message
> Here it is http://tinyurl.com/w3my I wonder why it's on sale here if it's
> so bad?
>
> --
> Andrea mom of 5 - latest addition Kamron David 5 months 20lbs
>

It's not bad. Some people over-react to that particular warning of giving
too much Tylenol. People were going by age and not weight and were giving
too much to the children over a long period of time. So now the paranoid
people have translated that into any dose of Tylenol will cause liver
damage. It doesn't, not if you follow the recommendations. What I think is
humerous is that I have a daughter that had a liver transplant due to
problems with her liver when she was born. And the hospital had to give her
Tylenol (she can't have Motrin) all the time after surgery and for the many
many fevers she has had in her short little life. Those doctors would not
give it if it caused liver damage, especially to her. It can cause liver
damage only if you overuse it and use too much.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

[Dawn Lawson]

Andrea wrote:


>>
>>250 mg per 5 ml. 100 ml bottle. That's 5 grams of paracetamol. >12
>>grams can be fatal to an adult in a single dose, even less in a person
>>with liver disease. >150 mg/kg in a child can cause serious liver
>>damage. This child was lucky.
>>http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/chart.html
>>
>>Lara
>
>
>
> Here is a snippet from your link;
>
> Management of CHILDREN (<12 years) who present within 8 hours of
> ingestion
>
> Paracetamol poisoning with children's liquid preparations is rarely
> serious. However, children poisoned with adult paracetamol preparations may
> be at risk of serious liver and renal damage.
>
>
>
> The risk is high if a child is overdosed with ADULT paracetamol doses.
>

Clearly you don't understand.
an entire botte of child's paracetamol contains more than an adult daily
maimum dose of paracetamol, and depending on the size of the child, it
could have been quite dangerous, and surely isn't something to be
shrugged off as an event to prove the safety of paracetamol.
I'm not saying that paracetamol is a highly dangerous preparation, but
just that you're rather blithly giving questionable advice, and seem a
bit cavalier in your approach. Does it have to be a high risk to
warrent concern?

Dawn?

[Andrea]

"Jacqui" > wrote in message
. 7...
> Andrea wibbled
> > Lara wrote
>
> >> I'm kinda surprised they get away with that labelling, frankly.
> >> OTC diphenhydramine in a three month old? It's been linked with
> >> SIDS and apnoea. Here they say "not to be used children under two
> >> without medical advice", and no manufacturer will even begin to
> >> list a dose for a baby under six months. In good news, Benadryl
> >> here correctly list their products as "may be used in
> >> breastfeeding" rather than giving the knee-jerk CYA advice on
> >> choosing between the medication and breastfeeding.
> >>
> > Medised have a version of their meds that is from 3 months. It's
> > available to buy in any pharmacy here in the UK.
>
> It does not contain diphenhydramine (which *is* in Tixycolds, Tixylix,
> Uniflu and their variants).
>
> http://bnf.org/bnf/bnf/current/doc/119641.htm
>
> Jac

The 3+ months medised does contain diphenhydramine,

http://www.expresschemist.co.uk/product_1859_MED1859.html

--
Andrea mom of 5 - latest addition Kamron David 5 months 20lbs

[Dawn Lawson]

Jacqui wrote:

> Lara wrote >
>
>>Plain paracetamol plus or minus teething gel works brilliantly for
>>Luke when he's teething. Just measure the dose carefully, teapot -
>>check it twice, and preferably get someone else to check it too,
>>especially given how tired you are.
>
>
> Most baby paracetamol here (Calpol, Boots own etc) comes in one-dose
> sachets (10 in a box) so you cannot overdose the child.

Unless the box is equipped with a time lock mechanism that prevents you
from taking more than one package out at a time, of COURSE an overdose
is possible.
I laughed when we had to keep higher strength tablets of ibuprofen
behind the counter at the pharmacy, because taking more than one tablet
of the lower strength is possible, likely and unregulated and just as
east to exceed the recommneded dosage with as the higher ones..

The sachets just make it more convenient to give a standard dose, and
less so to use any other dose, as you found out after the shots when you
have to deal with half a sachet.

Dawn

[Dawn Lawson]

teapot wrote:

> I can't run on no sleep, I really can't and now the kitchen roof is
> leaking,
>
> There was nothing I could do for teh moo last nigt that would make him
> happy, we are both miserable

((teapot))
I know how you feel, wenet thru the same thing at about the same age.
Sleep anytime at all that you can pull it off.
And if you are concerned, maybe take the Moo for a quick checkup to see
if there's anything more to be done.

Dawn

[Kathy]

teapot wrote:

>There was nothing I could do for teh moo
>last nigt that would make him happy, we
>are both miserable

Hi teapot,

I recently posted about being in a similar situation, except my dd is
almost 10 weeks old.

I wish I had a ton of advice for you (and me)...but I can tell you that
I know how HORRIBLE it is to be sleep deprived. It's more than just
being tired...it effects your entire life in every way possible. When
I'm tired I am unable to respond to dd the way I would like to...I am
crabby with dh...I forget things, drop things, start crying out of the
blue...in general I act like a crazy person.

Last night I was lucky enough to get 5 hours of straight sleep thanks to
my dh. He insisted I go to bed, and he just did his best to take care
of dd. She cried a lot...and he spent hours rocking her, holding a
pacifier in her mouth, pacing the floor, etc...but today I am feeling so
much better. I feel much better able to handle dd's fussiness.

I don't know, I guess I just wanted to tell you that there are many of
us out there who know how you are feeling...you are not alone and today
(now that I've had some sleep) I can tell you that it will get better.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope that you and that little moo of
yours get some well needed sleep soon.

Kathy

[Jacqui]

Dawn Lawson wibbled

> Jacqui wrote:
>
>> Lara wrote >
>>
>>>Plain paracetamol plus or minus teething gel works brilliantly
>>>for Luke when he's teething. Just measure the dose carefully,
>>>teapot - check it twice, and preferably get someone else to check
>>>it too, especially given how tired you are.
>>
>>
>> Most baby paracetamol here (Calpol, Boots own etc) comes in
>> one-dose sachets (10 in a box) so you cannot overdose the child.
>
> Unless the box is equipped with a time lock mechanism that
> prevents you from taking more than one package out at a time, of
> COURSE an overdose is possible.

Insert "accidentally" into the sentence. Of course you can wilfully and
maliciously overdose a child on pretty much anything if you want to,
but infant paracetamol, even at two doses in three hours (assuming the
administrating person is too tired to read a clock) is pretty low risk
in the scheme of things. If nothing else there's no "did we already do
this?" factor - the torn sachet/ones remaining in the box are a big
clue. Lara was discussing the imprecise nature of "spoonfuls" - not a
problem with sachets,

Jac

[Andrea]

"Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
news:VKLvb.462489$9l5.265652@pd7tw2no...
>
>
> Andrea wrote:
>
>
> >>
> >>250 mg per 5 ml. 100 ml bottle. That's 5 grams of paracetamol. >12
> >>grams can be fatal to an adult in a single dose, even less in a person
> >>with liver disease. >150 mg/kg in a child can cause serious liver
> >>damage. This child was lucky.
> >>http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/chart.html
> >>
> >>Lara
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a snippet from your link;
> >
> > Management of CHILDREN (<12 years) who present within 8 hours of
> > ingestion
> >
> > Paracetamol poisoning with children's liquid preparations is
rarely
> > serious. However, children poisoned with adult paracetamol preparations
may
> > be at risk of serious liver and renal damage.
> >
> >
> >
> > The risk is high if a child is overdosed with ADULT paracetamol doses.
> >
>
> Clearly you don't understand.
> an entire botte of child's paracetamol contains more than an adult daily
> maimum dose of paracetamol, and depending on the size of the child, it
> could have been quite dangerous, and surely isn't something to be
> shrugged off as an event to prove the safety of paracetamol.
> I'm not saying that paracetamol is a highly dangerous preparation, but
> just that you're rather blithly giving questionable advice, and seem a
> bit cavalier in your approach. Does it have to be a high risk to
> warrent concern?
>
> Dawn?
>
>
>

I am not giving any advice. I took a passage out of the webpage and put it
here to prove a point. I haven't advised anyone to overdose their child. One
spoon too many wouldn't kill.
Of course it depends on the size of the child, that's just too obvious to
mention. If you gave a bottle of 6+ to a newborn then i'm sure the effect
would be devestating.

Anyway Dawn do you seek me out to nit-pick? Fun ;o)

--
Andrea mom of 5 - latest addition Kamron David 5 months 20lbs

[Dawn Lawson]

Jacqui wrote:
> Dawn Lawson wrote

>>>
>>>Most baby paracetamol here (Calpol, Boots own etc) comes in
>>>one-dose sachets (10 in a box) so you cannot overdose the child.
>>
>>Unless the box is equipped with a time lock mechanism that
>>prevents you from taking more than one package out at a time, of
>>COURSE an overdose is possible.
>
>
> Insert "accidentally" into the sentence. Of course you can wilfully and
> maliciously overdose a child on pretty much anything if you want to,
> but infant paracetamol, even at two doses in three hours (assuming the
> administrating person is too tired to read a clock) is pretty low risk
> in the scheme of things. If nothing else there's no "did we already do
> this?" factor - the torn sachet/ones remaining in the box are a big
> clue. Lara was discussing the imprecise nature of "spoonfuls" - not a
> problem with sachets,

And *I* was pointing out that although setting out a product in generic
"one dose" sachets (and what if your kid is substantially heavier or
lighter??) will perhaps lessen the chances, it does NOT mean one CANNOT
overdose. And it need not be done willfully or maliciously, just stupidly.

And, having worked, as I've said, in a pharmacy/chemist, I can assure
you that the number of people doing incredibly stupid things with
medication is higher than you might think. (and not always are they
incredibly stupid people, just people not using the medication properly
or extrapolating from other experience instead of following instructions)

Dawn

[teapot]

"Sue" > wrote in message >...
> Have you ruled out an illness? Have you taken him to the doctor at all?
> --
> Sue (mom to three girls)
> I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...
>
> teapot > wrote in message
> om...
> > I can't run on no sleep, I really can't and now the kitchen roof is
> > leaking,
> >
> > There was nothing I could do for teh moo last nigt that would make him
> > happy, we are both miserable
> >
> > teapot

Thanks for all your replies lovely people. His dad took him out for a
few hours this afternoon so I got some sleep, its food then bed for me
now!

He is snuffly, has the squits, is teething and is still itching frmo
the scabies so its no wonder he cant sleep, I'll take him to the
clinic on monday and speak to the health visitor about it all.

teapot

[Shannon G]

> Anyway Dawn do you seek me out to nit-pick? Fun ;o)
>
> --

No, she nit-picks others too. Don't think your special ;-)

Shannon

[Chotii]

"Andrea" > wrote in message
...
> "Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
> news:VKLvb.462489$9l5.265652@pd7tw2no...
> >
> >
> > Andrea wrote:
> >
> >
> > >>
> > >>250 mg per 5 ml. 100 ml bottle. That's 5 grams of paracetamol. >12
> > >>grams can be fatal to an adult in a single dose, even less in a person
> > >>with liver disease. >150 mg/kg in a child can cause serious liver
> > >>damage. This child was lucky.
> > >>http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/chart.html
> > >>
> > >>Lara
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is a snippet from your link;
> > >
> > > Management of CHILDREN (<12 years) who present within 8 hours of
> > > ingestion
> > >
> > > Paracetamol poisoning with children's liquid preparations is
> rarely
> > > serious. However, children poisoned with adult paracetamol
preparations
> may
> > > be at risk of serious liver and renal damage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The risk is high if a child is overdosed with ADULT paracetamol doses.
> > >
> >
> > Clearly you don't understand.
> > an entire botte of child's paracetamol contains more than an adult daily
> > maimum dose of paracetamol, and depending on the size of the child, it
> > could have been quite dangerous, and surely isn't something to be
> > shrugged off as an event to prove the safety of paracetamol.
> > I'm not saying that paracetamol is a highly dangerous preparation, but
> > just that you're rather blithly giving questionable advice, and seem a
> > bit cavalier in your approach. Does it have to be a high risk to
> > warrent concern?
> >
> > Dawn?
> >
> >
> >
>
> I am not giving any advice. I took a passage out of the webpage and put it
> here to prove a point. I haven't advised anyone to overdose their child.
One
> spoon too many wouldn't kill.

One spoon too many might very well kill. We were told in our infant CPR
class of a case where the mother gave the child a single dose of
paracetamol/tylenol, and then the father, unknowing, did the same. The
child died of liver damage. They impressed on us VERY STRONGLY that
double-dosing of tylenol is DANGEROUS. This, by the way, is why my husband
and I use ibuprofen now, rather than tylenol.

I agree with the poster who said the 5 year old was lucky. Maybe it helped
that the child was 5, and not 5 months.

--angela

[Dawn Lawson]

Chotii wrote:

> "Andrea" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Dawn Lawson" > wrote in message
>>news:VKLvb.462489$9l5.265652@pd7tw2no...
>>
>>>
>>>Andrea wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>250 mg per 5 ml. 100 ml bottle. That's 5 grams of paracetamol. >12
>>>>>grams can be fatal to an adult in a single dose, even less in a person
>>>>>with liver disease. >150 mg/kg in a child can cause serious liver
>>>>>damage. This child was lucky.
>>>>>http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/chart.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Lara
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here is a snippet from your link;
>>>>
>>>> Management of CHILDREN (<12 years) who present within 8 hours of
>>>>ingestion
>>>>
>>>> Paracetamol poisoning with children's liquid preparations is
>>
>>rarely
>>
>>>>serious. However, children poisoned with adult paracetamol
>
> preparations
>
>>may
>>
>>>>be at risk of serious liver and renal damage.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The risk is high if a child is overdosed with ADULT paracetamol doses.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Clearly you don't understand.
>>>an entire botte of child's paracetamol contains more than an adult daily
>>>maimum dose of paracetamol, and depending on the size of the child, it
>>>could have been quite dangerous, and surely isn't something to be
>>>shrugged off as an event to prove the safety of paracetamol.
>>>I'm not saying that paracetamol is a highly dangerous preparation, but
>>>just that you're rather blithly giving questionable advice, and seem a
>>>bit cavalier in your approach. Does it have to be a high risk to
>>>warrent concern?
>>>
>>>Dawn?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I am not giving any advice. I took a passage out of the webpage and put it
>>here to prove a point. I haven't advised anyone to overdose their child.
>
> One
>
>>spoon too many wouldn't kill.
>
>
> One spoon too many might very well kill. We were told in our infant CPR
> class of a case where the mother gave the child a single dose of
> paracetamol/tylenol, and then the father, unknowing, did the same. The
> child died of liver damage. They impressed on us VERY STRONGLY that
> double-dosing of tylenol is DANGEROUS. This, by the way, is why my husband
> and I use ibuprofen now, rather than tylenol.


The pharmacists I worked with ALL advised acetaminophen over ibuprofen
for young children.

Ibuprofen has its own risks, especially if you have concerns about
double dosing. In that case, perhaps clearer communication is more
important than just changing medications? If you have a risk of double
dosing, it doesn't really matter if you're talking about tylenol or
cough syrup or gravol or ibuprofen, since really, the problem is the
double dosing. (or in Andrea's example, drinking the bottle, which
suggests poor storage of medications)

Medications MUST be used and stored appropriately to be safe. It seems
obvious, and it IS obvious, but it's not necessarily how things actually
are. Tylenol/paracetamol is treated as utterly harmless, and that's
where the problems tend to arise. who hasn't heard "give a little more"
or "try another dose" because after all "it's *just* tylenol" And the
commercials really push using it for the slightest thing.

(I haven't even mentioned what it does to show a child that instead of
taking a day of rest and liquids and caring for yourself, you can just
reach for a bottle or a pill of medication to treat every symptom.)

Dawn

[Rosie]

"Chotii" :
> the mother gave the child a single dose of
> paracetamol/tylenol, and then the father, unknowing, did the same.

Well this could never happen in MY house... it takes at LEAST two of us to
get the stuff into her and we ALL end up covered in sticky pink goo... ; )

ROSIE

[Lara]

Andrea > wrote:

> Here is a snippet from your link;
>
> Management of CHILDREN (<12 years) who present within 8 hours of
> ingestion
>
> Paracetamol poisoning with children's liquid preparations is rarely
> serious.

Children don't usually drink a whole bottle all at once.

> The risk is high if a child is overdosed with ADULT paracetamol doses.

The risk is high if the child ingests more than the toxic number of
milligrams. This is easier with concentrated tablets than with dilute
foul-tasting syrup, but the risk with syrup is decidedly non-zero. The
Miles reference includes eight accidental paracetamol poisonings in
children, causing severe acute liver failure; several of the children
died. The poisonings are often caused by well-meaning adults giving the
child repeated doses which accumulate over several days.

"Despite several attempts to define a safe therapeutic regimen, there is
still no consensus as to the appropriate dose, or even efficacy, in
children. One report recommended single doses of 10-15 mg/kg four-hourly
as a "safe maximum".17 However, Nahata et al demonstrated that
paracetamol may accumulate substantially, with raised concentrations
after therapeutic doses for two to three days, even with doses of 13
mg/kg 24-hourly."

The other paper says the therapeutic index of paracetamol may be as low
as 1.7, so you can see why I'm wary of cavalier advice to "double the
dose".

Lara

[Herself]

teapot > wrote:

> I can't run on no sleep, I really can't and now the kitchen roof is
> leaking,
>
> There was nothing I could do for teh moo last nigt that would make him
> happy, we are both miserable

Awwww...Lisa...we have a guest cottage here that's yours if you hop on
Ryanair. As long as you like, at least to get you out of the house to
get the roof fixed :-).
--
'Tis Herself

[Kathy Cole]

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:31:22 -0000, "Andrea"
> wrote:

> Here it is http://tinyurl.com/w3my I wonder why it's on sale here
> if it's so bad?

It's not that it's bad, it's just that, like any other medication, you
need to be careful with it. Children's diphenhydramine is the
recommendation of my pediatrician for kids with stuffed up noses that
don't respond to saline irrigation (from when the kids are quite small),
but we did always call to confirm the correct weight-based dosing before
administering it, as we did with acetominophen and ibuprofen.

Just because a medication is over-the-counter doesn't mean you don't
have to carefully follow the dosing recommendations, that's all.