Depressed :(

[Zucca4]

This past weekend I began running a temp which averaged about 102.7 and hit as
high as 103.8 a few times. I had terrible, violent shakes and chills. Called
my OB as I suspected my tear might be infected. Knew it wasn't mastitis as my
breasts were not painful.
Doctor and I went through all the symptoms I did NOT have- coughing, aches,
sore throat, congestion etc. She asked if I had pain when I had bowel movements
as she thought I might have an abcess. No pain here. She ordered a prescription
for augmentin to be taken with alternating doses of Motrin and Tylenol. I
asked her if I could continue to breastfeed my two week old son and she said
yes. She "encouraged" it. I even called my pediatrician who said by all means
continue breastfeeding. No prob with the augmentin or the over the counter
stuff. Also no problem with me being contagious. Of course all my relatives
thought this was crazy but considering none of them are MD's I chose to listen
to my actual doctors.

Today I went to the OB. After an HOUR rectal, vaginal,and breast exam with
cultures and a cauterization of my bottom she said her gut feeling was that I
had a VIRAL infection of some sort and that i should pump for the baby but not
be near him for about a week. She also terrified my husband and I by mentioning
that if Baby Michael came down with a fever he's be put in the NICU and have to
get a spinal tap etc to tule out meningitis.

I'm so angry both doctors encouraged me to be around my baby these last few
days banking on the fact that it was a bacterial infection without ruling out
anything viral.

Any experience with any of this stuff?

Thanks,
Lisa

[Leslie]

This sounds like crazy advice to me.

1) Chances are that if baby is going to catch what you have, the damage has
already been done.

2) I would think your milk would have your germs in it anyway, so if it's okay
for him to have your milk it's okay for him to be near you.

3) You make antibodies to your own illnesses in the milk so he probably would
get only a mild case anyway.

I'll be interested to see what others say, but I wouldn't agree to stay away
from my baby, personally.

Leslie

[Dagny]

"Zucca4" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
> Today I went to the OB. After an HOUR rectal, vaginal,and breast exam with
> cultures and a cauterization of my bottom she said her gut feeling was
that I
> had a VIRAL infection of some sort and that i should pump for the baby but
not
> be near him for about a week. She also terrified my husband and I by
mentioning
> that if Baby Michael came down with a fever he's be put in the NICU and
have to
> get a spinal tap etc to tule out meningitis.
>
> I'm so angry both doctors encouraged me to be around my baby these last
few
> days banking on the fact that it was a bacterial infection without ruling
out
> anything viral.
>
> Any experience with any of this stuff?
>
> Thanks,
> Lisa
>

Good lord. I have no experience so take this for what it's worth. Go be
with your baby. If you are going to get your baby sick, it's been done,
you've already shed plenty of virus on him. So he'll be sick and absolutely
traumatized by the loss of mother and breast? Good lord. Obstetricians are
total idiots.

I also don't understand why you'd need to traumatize the baby further by
looking for meningitis when a fever would have an explanation -- the baby
caught your illness.

Also remember he won't "be put" anywhere you don't put him.

I do know you have to be very careful with tiny babies and fevers because
they can go downhill quickly. However in such a case I would be very
careful to balance the harm hospitalization can cause with the risk I was
trying to prevent.

But what do I know I'm not a doctor i.e. I'm don't believe I'm god and/or
about to be sued any minute.

-- Dagny

[Nina]

"Zucca4" > wrote in message
...
>
> This past weekend I began running a temp which averaged about 102.7 and
hit as
> high as 103.8 a few times. I had terrible, violent shakes and chills.
Called
> my OB as I suspected my tear might be infected. Knew it wasn't mastitis as
my
> breasts were not painful.
> Doctor and I went through all the symptoms I did NOT have- coughing,
aches,
> sore throat, congestion etc. She asked if I had pain when I had bowel
movements
> as she thought I might have an abcess. No pain here. She ordered a
prescription
> for augmentin to be taken with alternating doses of Motrin and Tylenol. I
> asked her if I could continue to breastfeed my two week old son and she
said
> yes. She "encouraged" it. I even called my pediatrician who said by all
means
> continue breastfeeding. No prob with the augmentin or the over the counter
> stuff. Also no problem with me being contagious. Of course all my
relatives
> thought this was crazy but considering none of them are MD's I chose to
listen
> to my actual doctors.
>
> Today I went to the OB. After an HOUR rectal, vaginal,and breast exam with
> cultures and a cauterization of my bottom she said her gut feeling was
that I
> had a VIRAL infection of some sort and that i should pump for the baby but
not
> be near him for about a week. She also terrified my husband and I by
mentioning
> that if Baby Michael came down with a fever he's be put in the NICU and
have to
> get a spinal tap etc to tule out meningitis.
>
> I'm so angry both doctors encouraged me to be around my baby these last
few
> days banking on the fact that it was a bacterial infection without ruling
out
> anything viral.
>
I wish you luck. My baby was 5 weeks 5 days and ended up in the hospital
having the spinal tape etc because of her fever, she'd gotten the flu from
my 19 year old stepson. FWIW, If u are in the house with the baby and it is
viral, the baby will probably get it. My stepson is rarely in the house,
usually stays downstairs while the baby is always upstairs, doesnt have any
contact with her and she till got the flu though no one else was ill.

[Beth Kevles]

Hi -

Did I read this right? Your OB (who doesn't deal with babies beyond the
delivery day) is the ONLY doctor who said to stay away from your baby?
Why would you NOT listen to the other two doctors? What does your
ped. have to say?

The general advice I've heard goes as follows:

Once you develop symptoms, you've already been contagious for at least a
few hours, possibly as long as 10 days, with whatever-it-is. So your
baby has already been exposed.

As soon as you get whatever-it-is, your body starts making antibodies to
it. (That's how you ultimately get well.) Those same antibodies are
excreted into your breastmilk, and when your baby nurses your baby gets
some of those antibodies, too. So nursing actually can HELP your baby.

So, as long as you can safely nurse without overdoing your OWN body's
activities (ie, energy spent nursing is energy that can't get spend
fighting the virus), and as long as you don't get dehydrated, keep
nursing. If your own body starts to get overwhelmed, then stop nursing
.... but for YOUR sake, not for the baby's.

Keep a close watch on your baby. Fevers CAN be serious, so if your baby
starts to get sick you want to contact your ped. promptly.

Find out whether you should continue the course of antibiotics. There's
no guarantee that what you've got is viral, or that you can't develop a
secondary infection. But this is something your doctor should discuss
with you based on your individual illness, not the newsgroup!

Get well soon!
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

[H Schinske]

wrote:

> She also terrified my husband and I by mentioning
>that if Baby Michael came down with a fever he's be put in the NICU and have
>to
>get a spinal tap etc to tule out meningitis.

That is unfortunately standard treatment of otherwise unexplained fevers in
very small babies. Nothing to do with whether it's viral or bacterial. In fact
they would be putting him on IV antibiotics specifically because it might be a
bacterial infection that there hadn't been time to culture yet.

If they DID have an explanation for the baby's fever (which he hasn't got yet,
anyway, probably won't), and it wasn't a dangerous illness, they wouldn't
necessarily put him through the whole ruling-out-sepsis routine. But the
pediatrician is the one to deal with that. Your OB was just giving you a
heads-up on one POSSIBILITY, not a certainty at all.

My twins went through this kind of hospitalization at five weeks, and while it
was sure no fun at the time, it was not hideous either, once we were through
the round of tests and pretty sure there was not actually anything wrong. We
weren't in the NICU or anything, just an ordinary ward. Babies that little lie
around a lot anyway, it isn't nearly as hard on them to be hospitalized as it
would be for older babies.

--Helen

[Shannon and Joe]

If you have a virus, chances are the baby has already been exposed. If so,
the BEST POSSIBLE THING YOU CAN DO is breastfeed, and pass along the
antibodies you have already created. Wash your hands a lot and try to rest,
and keep a sharp eye on the baby's symptoms, watching for any danger signs
(you already know these, clearly).

We went through a stomach virus in our house that hit DH and me like a ton
of bricks. DS got it, but not nearly as bad and continued to nurse all the
way through.

My heart goes out to you!

-Shannon
"Zucca4" > wrote in message
...
>
> This past weekend I began running a temp which averaged about 102.7 and
hit as
> high as 103.8 a few times. I had terrible, violent shakes and chills.
Called
> my OB as I suspected my tear might be infected. Knew it wasn't mastitis as
my
> breasts were not painful.
> Doctor and I went through all the symptoms I did NOT have- coughing,
aches,
> sore throat, congestion etc. She asked if I had pain when I had bowel
movements
> as she thought I might have an abcess. No pain here. She ordered a
prescription
> for augmentin to be taken with alternating doses of Motrin and Tylenol. I
> asked her if I could continue to breastfeed my two week old son and she
said
> yes. She "encouraged" it. I even called my pediatrician who said by all
means
> continue breastfeeding. No prob with the augmentin or the over the counter
> stuff. Also no problem with me being contagious. Of course all my
relatives
> thought this was crazy but considering none of them are MD's I chose to
listen
> to my actual doctors.
>
> Today I went to the OB. After an HOUR rectal, vaginal,and breast exam with
> cultures and a cauterization of my bottom she said her gut feeling was
that I
> had a VIRAL infection of some sort and that i should pump for the baby but
not
> be near him for about a week. She also terrified my husband and I by
mentioning
> that if Baby Michael came down with a fever he's be put in the NICU and
have to
> get a spinal tap etc to tule out meningitis.
>
> I'm so angry both doctors encouraged me to be around my baby these last
few
> days banking on the fact that it was a bacterial infection without ruling
out
> anything viral.
>
> Any experience with any of this stuff?
>
> Thanks,
> Lisa
>
>
>
>
>

[Larry McMahan]

I agree with Leslie. I think telling you to pump and not nurse directly
because you have fever is crazy, too.

Larry

Leslie > writes:
: This sounds like crazy advice to me.

: 1) Chances are that if baby is going to catch what you have, the damage has
: already been done.

: 2) I would think your milk would have your germs in it anyway, so if it's okay
: for him to have your milk it's okay for him to be near you.

: 3) You make antibodies to your own illnesses in the milk so he probably would
: get only a mild case anyway.

: I'll be interested to see what others say, but I wouldn't agree to stay away
: from my baby, personally.

: Leslie

[badgirl]

> "Zucca4" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Today I went to the OB. After an HOUR rectal, vaginal,and breast exam
with
> > cultures and a cauterization of my bottom she said her gut feeling was
> that I
> > had a VIRAL infection of some sort and that i should pump for the baby
but
> not
> > be near him for about a week. > > Thanks,
> > Lisa
> >

Yep, plenty of experience. Having 2 older kids who go and catch themselves
viral infections often during the school year one in particular having a
nasty viral cough this week....

NURSE the baby. Don't fall into the hooey about not being around the baby
for a week. If it is a viral infection it is in your milk, antiboties are
also being made and passed through your milk to fight it and chances are
extremely good that you have already exposed the baby and he is either going
to get it or is immune to it already.

Watch the baby for symptoms and go see the ped if you have any concerns.

Jen
*who has BTDT and stopped worrying years ago...but it DID take years to stop
worrying LOL*

[New York Jen]

I know that here it's general practice for a newborn to have a spinal tap
with a high fever, regardless of the suspected cause...


"Dagny" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Zucca4" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>
> > Today I went to the OB. After an HOUR rectal, vaginal,and breast exam
with
> > cultures and a cauterization of my bottom she said her gut feeling was
> that I
> > had a VIRAL infection of some sort and that i should pump for the baby
but
> not
> > be near him for about a week. She also terrified my husband and I by
> mentioning
> > that if Baby Michael came down with a fever he's be put in the NICU and
> have to
> > get a spinal tap etc to tule out meningitis.
> >
> > I'm so angry both doctors encouraged me to be around my baby these last
> few
> > days banking on the fact that it was a bacterial infection without
ruling
> out
> > anything viral.
> >
> > Any experience with any of this stuff?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lisa
> >
>
> Good lord. I have no experience so take this for what it's worth. Go be
> with your baby. If you are going to get your baby sick, it's been done,
> you've already shed plenty of virus on him. So he'll be sick and
absolutely
> traumatized by the loss of mother and breast? Good lord. Obstetricians
are
> total idiots.
>
> I also don't understand why you'd need to traumatize the baby further by
> looking for meningitis when a fever would have an explanation -- the baby
> caught your illness.
>
> Also remember he won't "be put" anywhere you don't put him.
>
> I do know you have to be very careful with tiny babies and fevers because
> they can go downhill quickly. However in such a case I would be very
> careful to balance the harm hospitalization can cause with the risk I was
> trying to prevent.
>
> But what do I know I'm not a doctor i.e. I'm don't believe I'm god and/or
> about to be sued any minute.
>
> -- Dagny
>
>
>

[toypup]

"New York Jen" > wrote in message
et...
> I know that here it's general practice for a newborn to have a spinal tap
> with a high fever, regardless of the suspected cause...

Yes, at our HMO, any newborn with a fever is automatically hospitalized and
they assume the worst until it's ruled out.

[Bach]

I agree with Leslie's advice....and so does La Leche League. I would
not suggest separation from your baby, even if it is your doctor's
"gut instinct". Check this site:
http://www.lalecheleague.org/FAQ/sick.html


(Leslie) wrote in message >...
> This sounds like crazy advice to me.
>
> 1) Chances are that if baby is going to catch what you have, the damage has
> already been done.
>
> 2) I would think your milk would have your germs in it anyway, so if it's okay
> for him to have your milk it's okay for him to be near you.
>
> 3) You make antibodies to your own illnesses in the milk so he probably would
> get only a mild case anyway.
>
> I'll be interested to see what others say, but I wouldn't agree to stay away
> from my baby, personally.
>
> Leslie

[toypup]

"H Schinske" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> My twins went through this kind of hospitalization at five weeks, and
while it
> was sure no fun at the time, it was not hideous either, once we were
through
> the round of tests and pretty sure there was not actually anything wrong.
We
> weren't in the NICU or anything, just an ordinary ward. Babies that little
lie
> around a lot anyway, it isn't nearly as hard on them to be hospitalized as
it
> would be for older babies.

I don't know why, but at our hospital, newborns that are discharged and then
readmitted are admitted to regular wards. Newborns that have been around
since birth can remain in the nursery. In some cases, the nursery babies
may be older than the ordinary ward babies. That was one reason we didn't
want to be discharged too early with DS. We were afraid he'd have to be
readmitted, but then he wouldn't have the attention of the nurses who were
specially trained in babies.

[Nina]

ATLANTA - The nation's health agency plans to closely watch flu
complications among children, who have swamped hospitals in some states and
surprised doctors with the severity of their illnesses.

A new concern is the rise of a common drug-resistant staph infection that is
complicating efforts to treat children with the flu, an official with the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (news - web sites) said Monday.
Dr. Tim Uyeki, epidemiologist with the influenza branch of CDC, said that
some children have died from the staph infections - a phenomenon the CDC has
not seen before.
Flu complications for children have always been dire: pneumonia, kidney and
heart failure, possible brain damage.
"We've just never seen them in the proportions we've seen them this year,"
said Dr. Steve Schexnayder, chief of pediatric critical care at Arkansas
Children's Hospital in Little Rock.
From Texas to California, children's hospitals have been swamped with sick
children - many of them desperately ill.
The waiting room at Children's Hospital Central California in Madera was
standing room only during the Thanksgiving holiday, and hospital officials
said nearly every child tested positive for the flu.
Children's Medical Center in Dallas has seen more than 500 kids with the flu
since October. One day last week, two dozen more appeared, most with enough
lung disease to be put on ventilators, said Dr. Jane Siegel.
"Because it seems to be a strain that has not circulated in the U.S. before
and is not well-covered by the existing vaccine, we're seeing far more
cases," said Dr. James Todd, director of epidemiology of Denver Children's
Hospital. "Just because you're seeing more cases, you're seeing more
complications."
Doctors say some children are coming into hospitals with so much damage they
are put on heart-lung bypass machines just to stay alive.
Others face additional problems: Nine-year-old Nick Collins at Arkansas
Children's Hospital needed four chest tubes to drain fluid from holes in his
lungs caused by bacterial pneumonia. Doctors are trying to prevent a blood
clot from killing him.
He also had methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), a usually
mild infection which led to his severe pneumonia. Staph bacteria are
commonly found on the skin or in the nose and often go undetected.
Uyeki said the children with staph-related flu likely picked up the bacteria
before they were hospitalized. In October CDC warned parents that many
school athletes had been found to carry MRSA.
These infections don't normally cause pneumonia without the flu virus, said
Dr. Frederick Hayden, a flu expert and professor of internal medicine at the
University of Virginia.
But the flu virus can impair the body's ability to fight the bacteria and
expel it. The bacteria, in turn, can produce enzymes that enhance the flu's
ability to infect cells, he said.
Nick, a healthy boy until he got the flu in early November, is doing better,
having been removed from a ventilator on Friday. But he'll likely have to
stay in the hospital through the end of the year, his mother says.
"It's scary to find that something as common as the flu can cause something
this major every year," said his mother, Kim Collins of Texarkana, Texas.
"We sit around for days in awe of the fact the flu has caused all of this."
Flu and its complications are the sixth leading cause of death nationally
among children age 4 and younger, according to the CDC.
Anecdotally, this flu season seems to be worse for children. But because the
CDC doesn't keep track of flu deaths, it's unclear how much worse. This year
the agency is planning to collect data on children who die from the flu,
those with MRSA, and those who develop brain damage, said Dr. Keiji Fukuda,
chief of epidemiology in the CDC's influenza branch.
In addition, some connected with the CDC say there may be a push to add
school-age children to the list of those most strongly urged to get the flu
shot - the best protection against the virus. The current recommendation for
children covers those from 6 months to 2 years and those who have certain
chronic conditions.
"My own prediction is what you'll continue to see is a broadening of the
recommendation for influenza immunization," said Dr. Greg Poland, a Mayo
Clinic professor and a member of the CDC advisory committee on immunization.
Pregnant women - urged to get the flu shot if they are in their second or
third trimester - have also become a concern this year.
The CDC is looking closely at some cases in which pregnant women have
displayed high pulse rates - which could be a symptom of a dangerous, and
potentially fatal, inflammation of the heart, said Dr. William Schaffner, a
flu expert with Vanderbilt University Medical Center. Texas in particular
has reported several such cases.
___
"Nina" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Zucca4" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > This past weekend I began running a temp which averaged about 102.7 and
> hit as
> > high as 103.8 a few times. I had terrible, violent shakes and chills.
> Called
> > my OB as I suspected my tear might be infected. Knew it wasn't mastitis
as
> my
> > breasts were not painful.
> > Doctor and I went through all the symptoms I did NOT have- coughing,
> aches,
> > sore throat, congestion etc. She asked if I had pain when I had bowel
> movements
> > as she thought I might have an abcess. No pain here. She ordered a
> prescription
> > for augmentin to be taken with alternating doses of Motrin and Tylenol.
I
> > asked her if I could continue to breastfeed my two week old son and she
> said
> > yes. She "encouraged" it. I even called my pediatrician who said by all
> means
> > continue breastfeeding. No prob with the augmentin or the over the
counter
> > stuff. Also no problem with me being contagious. Of course all my
> relatives
> > thought this was crazy but considering none of them are MD's I chose to
> listen
> > to my actual doctors.
> >
> > Today I went to the OB. After an HOUR rectal, vaginal,and breast exam
with
> > cultures and a cauterization of my bottom she said her gut feeling was
> that I
> > had a VIRAL infection of some sort and that i should pump for the baby
but
> not
> > be near him for about a week. She also terrified my husband and I by
> mentioning
> > that if Baby Michael came down with a fever he's be put in the NICU and
> have to
> > get a spinal tap etc to tule out meningitis.
> >
> > I'm so angry both doctors encouraged me to be around my baby these last
> few
> > days banking on the fact that it was a bacterial infection without
ruling
> out
> > anything viral.
> >
> I wish you luck. My baby was 5 weeks 5 days and ended up in the hospital
> having the spinal tape etc because of her fever, she'd gotten the flu from
> my 19 year old stepson. FWIW, If u are in the house with the baby and it
is
> viral, the baby will probably get it. My stepson is rarely in the house,
> usually stays downstairs while the baby is always upstairs, doesnt have
any
> contact with her and she till got the flu though no one else was ill.
>
>

[Nina]

"Beth Kevles" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hi -
>
> Did I read this right? Your OB (who doesn't deal with babies beyond the
> delivery day) is the ONLY doctor who said to stay away from your baby?
> Why would you NOT listen to the other two doctors? What does your
> ped. have to say?
>
> The general advice I've heard goes as follows:
>
> Once you develop symptoms, you've already been contagious for at least a
> few hours, possibly as long as 10 days, with whatever-it-is. So your
> baby has already been exposed.
>
> As soon as you get whatever-it-is, your body starts making antibodies to
> it. (That's how you ultimately get well.) Those same antibodies are
> excreted into your breastmilk, and when your baby nurses your baby gets
> some of those antibodies, too. So nursing actually can HELP your baby.
>
> So, as long as you can safely nurse without overdoing your OWN body's
> activities (ie, energy spent nursing is energy that can't get spend
> fighting the virus), and as long as you don't get dehydrated, keep
> nursing. If your own body starts to get overwhelmed, then stop nursing
> ... but for YOUR sake, not for the baby's.
>
> Keep a close watch on your baby. Fevers CAN be serious, so if your baby
> starts to get sick you want to contact your ped. promptly.


The kids here have been getting staph infections. seems the flu virus makes
it easier for the staph germs to cause an infection and make problems. Some
are dying or having Very Serious problems
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=534&e=1&u=/ap/20031209/ap_on
_he_me/flu_complications

[Nina]

"toypup" > wrote in message
news:Qk8Bb.341498$275.1123236@attbi_s53...
>
> "H Schinske" > wrote in message
> ...
> > wrote:
> > My twins went through this kind of hospitalization at five weeks, and
> while it
> > was sure no fun at the time, it was not hideous either, once we were
> through
> > the round of tests and pretty sure there was not actually anything
wrong.
> We
> > weren't in the NICU or anything, just an ordinary ward. Babies that
little
> lie
> > around a lot anyway, it isn't nearly as hard on them to be hospitalized
as
> it
> > would be for older babies.
>
> I don't know why, but at our hospital, newborns that are discharged and
then
> readmitted are admitted to regular wards. Newborns that have been around
> since birth can remain in the nursery. In some cases, the nursery babies
> may be older than the ordinary ward babies. That was one reason we didn't
> want to be discharged too early with DS. We were afraid he'd have to be
> readmitted, but then he wouldn't have the attention of the nurses who were
> specially trained in babies.
>
>

I agree on that. My baby was in a regular ward in her own room. When she
cried they had to come get her, no one was there 24-7. I made a point to
stay as much as possible so she would have round the clock attention. I'd
rather be there to stop her from aspirating vomit when I saw her barf, than
have them notice on the monitors that something was wrong AFTER the fact.
Yikes.
When she was in the ER they had to get the L&D nurses to come down and do
her IVs because the ER nurses couldnt, they poked her poor hands a few
times, she still has the bruises.

[Chookie]

In article <Qk8Bb.341498$275.1123236@attbi_s53>,
"toypup" > wrote:

> I don't know why, but at our hospital, newborns that are discharged and then
> readmitted are admitted to regular wards. Newborns that have been around
> since birth can remain in the nursery. In some cases, the nursery babies
> may be older than the ordinary ward babies.

Germs, I would think. Paricularly if the nursery has premmies in it.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Jeez; if only those Ancient Greek storytellers had known about the astonishing
creature that is the *Usenet hydra*: you cut off one head, and *a stupider one*
grows back..." -- MJ, cam.misc