The Rod must RETURN!

[E.P.]

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme2/cp/rod/

If you are tired of the "hands-off" approach of parents, teachers, and many
others concerning discipline, you need to say so!
If you are tired of prisoners being treated like hotel guests instead of
being treated as criminals, you need to say so!

If you are tired of the cruel and unusal punishment innocent people endure
because of the ABSENCE of corporal punishment being used in the criminal
justice system, you need to say so!

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme2/cp/rod/

[Chris]

E.P. > wrote:
: http://www.angelfire.com/extreme2/cp/rod/

Aside from providing spanking fetishists (such as the notorious
Charles Gleason and several other members with spanko-related stuff in
their online profiles) with a way to meet each other, what exactly does
your organization *do*?

Chris

[LaVonne Carlson]

Papaioannou wrote:

> Countries that have banned corporal punishment have MORE incidents of real
> child not to mention juvenile crimes.

You are sorely mistaken, Papaioannou. Countries that have banned corporal
punishment have far fewer incidents of juvenile crime than is experienced in
the US. Now, since you made the challenge, let's see your evidence.

Whether they have "MORE incidents of real child" is open to debate. I'm not
sure whether being a "REAL child" is more prevalent in countries that have
banned or permitted corporal punishment. Perhaps you could enlighten the ng.

> Cruel punishment is to put someone in a prison with dangerous criminals for
> a minor offence!

Of course it is. Who was talking about this and what does this have to do with
the subject of your post?

LaVonne

>
> ? "LaVonne Carlson" > ?????? ??? ??????
> ...
> >
> >
> > "E.P." wrote:
> >
> > > If you are tired of the "hands-off" approach of parents, teachers, and
> many
> > > others concerning discipline, you need to say so!
> >
> > I haven't noticed a "hands off" approach. Corporal punishment by parents
> of
> > minor children under the age of 18 is legal in every US state. Corporal
> > punishment in schools is legal in approximately 23 states, and more and
> more
> > states are seeking to once again reinstate the practice of children being
> hit
> > by school officials in the name of discipline. This is hardly a hands off
> > approach.
> >
> > Many European countries have legally banned corporal punishment, and all
> have
> > fewer incidents of violent crime than experienced in the US.
> >
> > > If you are tired of prisoners being treated like hotel guests instead of
> > > being treated as criminals, you need to say so!
> >
> > You've been staying in some strange hotels, E.P. I'd demand my money back
> if I
> > were you.
> >
> > > If you are tired of the cruel and unusal punishment innocent people
> endure
> > > because of the ABSENCE of corporal punishment being used in the criminal
> > > justice system, you need to say so!
> >
> > Now here's an interesting statement. Innocent people are enduring cruel
> and
> > unusual punishment as a result of no corporal punishment in the criminal
> > justice system. What, pray tell, does this mean?
> >
> > LaVonne
> >
> >

[LaVonne Carlson]

Papaioannou wrote:

> I meant of real child ABUSE since the parent in a 100% angry rage results in
> a fit to corporal punishment something better done when calm than like a
> lost lunatic.

Oh, that is what you meant. Thanks for clarifying. Regardless of what one is
attempting to do, I suspect it is generally better to be calm than a "lost
lunatic."

I do find something chilling about people who can advocate calmly looking into
the eyes of a little child and raising his/her hand and hitting the body of
that little child in the name of discipline. I suspect a child would
understand a parent loosing his/her temper before he/she understands calm and
calculated cruelty and humiliation. I also pity the adult who has so few
parenting resources that he/she believes this behavior is a necessary and
acceptable part of parenting.

> But do you people really care about the children's good.?

I'm not "you people" -- I am one person. I cannot respond for whoever "you
people" may be. I can only responsibly respond for myself. Yes, I care about
"children's good." It's one of the reasons I attempt to educate future
teachers and parents in child development and alternative and more appropriate
ways to raise, teach, and discipline children.

> I
> think NOT! All you care about is to pass your little anti-God parenting
> theories which have destroyed millions of families since that evil Dr Spock
> or whatever appeared. God have mercy on his soul!

Please become informed. The "evil Dr. Spock" that you refer to did not
denounce the practice of corporal punishment until shortly before his death.
Dr. Spock accepted the practice for the vast majority of his literary and
professional life. Good grief -- learn before making such ridiculous
statements.

Respecting children and not hurting them in the name of discipline is not
anti-God. It's pro-Jesus. Show me any words in the NT where Jesus advocates
hitting and hurting children in the name of discipline.

LaVonne

>
>
> Ï "Papaioannou" > ?ãñáøå óôï ì?íõìá
> .. .
> > Countries that have banned corporal punishment have MORE incidents of real
> > child not to mention juvenile crimes.
> > Cruel punishment is to put someone in a prison with dangerous criminals
> for
> > a minor offence!
> > WAKE UP!
> >
> > ? "LaVonne Carlson" > ?????? ??? ??????
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > "E.P." wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you are tired of the "hands-off" approach of parents, teachers,
> and
> > many
> > > > others concerning discipline, you need to say so!
> > >
> > > I haven't noticed a "hands off" approach. Corporal punishment by
> parents
> > of
> > > minor children under the age of 18 is legal in every US state. Corporal
> > > punishment in schools is legal in approximately 23 states, and more and
> > more
> > > states are seeking to once again reinstate the practice of children
> being
> > hit
> > > by school officials in the name of discipline. This is hardly a hands
> off
> > > approach.
> > >
> > > Many European countries have legally banned corporal punishment, and all
> > have
> > > fewer incidents of violent crime than experienced in the US.
> > >
> > > > If you are tired of prisoners being treated like hotel guests instead
> of
> > > > being treated as criminals, you need to say so!
> > >
> > > You've been staying in some strange hotels, E.P. I'd demand my money
> back
> > if I
> > > were you.
> > >
> > > > If you are tired of the cruel and unusal punishment innocent people
> > endure
> > > > because of the ABSENCE of corporal punishment being used in the
> criminal
> > > > justice system, you need to say so!
> > >
> > > Now here's an interesting statement. Innocent people are enduring cruel
> > and
> > > unusual punishment as a result of no corporal punishment in the criminal
> > > justice system. What, pray tell, does this mean?
> > >
> > > LaVonne
> > >
> > >
> >
> >

[Spider Eyes]

------------
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----------
"Papaioannou" > wrote...

> Countries that have banned corporal punishment have MORE incidents of real
> child not to mention juvenile crimes.
> Cruel punishment is to put someone in a prison with dangerous criminals for
> a minor offence!
> WAKE UP!

I agree. Spanking must return to the home, to schools, and to prisons.

>
> ? "LaVonne Carlson" > ?????? ??? ??????
> ...
> >
> >
> > "E.P." wrote:
> >
> > > If you are tired of the "hands-off" approach of parents, teachers, and
> many
> > > others concerning discipline, you need to say so!
> >
> > I haven't noticed a "hands off" approach. Corporal punishment by parents
> of
> > minor children under the age of 18 is legal in every US state. Corporal
> > punishment in schools is legal in approximately 23 states, and more and
> more
> > states are seeking to once again reinstate the practice of children being
> hit
> > by school officials in the name of discipline. This is hardly a hands off
> > approach.
> >
> > Many European countries have legally banned corporal punishment, and all
> have
> > fewer incidents of violent crime than experienced in the US.
> >
> > > If you are tired of prisoners being treated like hotel guests instead of
> > > being treated as criminals, you need to say so!
> >
> > You've been staying in some strange hotels, E.P. I'd demand my money back
> if I
> > were you.
> >
> > > If you are tired of the cruel and unusal punishment innocent people
> endure
> > > because of the ABSENCE of corporal punishment being used in the criminal
> > > justice system, you need to say so!
> >
> > Now here's an interesting statement. Innocent people are enduring cruel
> and
> > unusual punishment as a result of no corporal punishment in the criminal
> > justice system. What, pray tell, does this mean?
> >
> > LaVonne
> >
> >
>
>

[Ron]

"LaVonne Carlson" > wrote in message
...
> Papaioannou wrote:
>
> > Countries that have banned corporal punishment have MORE incidents of
real
> > child not to mention juvenile crimes.
>
> You are sorely mistaken, Papaioannou. Countries that have banned corporal
> punishment have far fewer incidents of juvenile crime than is experienced
in
> the US. Now, since you made the challenge, let's see your evidence.

Lavone, you migh want to qualify that statement. Those countries are
experienceing a rising number of incidents of child crime, from their
historic lows. No country, anywhere, has ever had as high a crime rate as
the United States, and that has absolutely nothing to do with spanking. It
has to do with poverty, a free society, social inequities, and a whole
plethora of other things, but spanking cannot be counted among them.

Historically, corporal punishment has been a staple of child rearing. 20,000
years or more of parents correcting inappropriate behaviors by using natures
own behavior modification system. And it has worked. We are where we are as
a species because we use those methods that prove reliable, and those things
that are a natural part of being human. Pain is the best behavior modifier
ever known. It is built into the human body and we depend on it every minute
of every day to tell us when we are doing something that we should not be
doing. It works, period. Always has, always will. 20,000 years of testing,
and while its not quite perfect, as nothing is, it is effective.



The auspices of psychology cannot say the same thing. They are still in the
infant / testing stage of their theories in comparison. There are many
theories and studies out there, but none can say with certainty, or anything
close to it, that the methods they recommend are as or more effective.
Psychologists stumble and bumble around, trying to understand the human
mind, pronouncing findings from short term studies, as if they actually know
what they are talking about. But, when one is finally pined down without any
wiggle room, they all admit that their theories are just that, theories.
Unproven, and unproveable. But the individuals that post to these news
groups sure feel free to make the claim of fact.



You can argue that what I say above is incorrect, but not credibly. Not
until your theories have had 20,000 + years in which to be studied and
tested. Give me a call when they get to that point, we can discuss it then.
Until then, you can babble all you like, it just wont mean anything.



Ron




> Whether they have "MORE incidents of real child" is open to debate. I'm
not
> sure whether being a "REAL child" is more prevalent in countries that have
> banned or permitted corporal punishment. Perhaps you could enlighten the
ng.
>
> > Cruel punishment is to put someone in a prison with dangerous criminals
for
> > a minor offence!
>
> Of course it is. Who was talking about this and what does this have to do
with
> the subject of your post?
>
> LaVonne
>
> >
> > ? "LaVonne Carlson" > ?????? ??? ??????
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > "E.P." wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you are tired of the "hands-off" approach of parents, teachers,
and
> > many
> > > > others concerning discipline, you need to say so!
> > >
> > > I haven't noticed a "hands off" approach. Corporal punishment by
parents
> > of
> > > minor children under the age of 18 is legal in every US state.
Corporal
> > > punishment in schools is legal in approximately 23 states, and more
and
> > more
> > > states are seeking to once again reinstate the practice of children
being
> > hit
> > > by school officials in the name of discipline. This is hardly a hands
off
> > > approach.
> > >
> > > Many European countries have legally banned corporal punishment, and
all
> > have
> > > fewer incidents of violent crime than experienced in the US.
> > >
> > > > If you are tired of prisoners being treated like hotel guests
instead of
> > > > being treated as criminals, you need to say so!
> > >
> > > You've been staying in some strange hotels, E.P. I'd demand my money
back
> > if I
> > > were you.
> > >
> > > > If you are tired of the cruel and unusal punishment innocent people
> > endure
> > > > because of the ABSENCE of corporal punishment being used in the
criminal
> > > > justice system, you need to say so!
> > >
> > > Now here's an interesting statement. Innocent people are enduring
cruel
> > and
> > > unusual punishment as a result of no corporal punishment in the
criminal
> > > justice system. What, pray tell, does this mean?
> > >
> > > LaVonne
> > >
> > >
>