Needing Advice

[Marie]

My twin boys are 3 mo old (5wks corrected) and becoming as different as
night and day.

Alex (who started out the smaller one) has gained on his brother, now
outweighing him by a pound or so. Chris' growth spurts have been
overshadowed by a period of spitting up about half of everything he eats, so
while the doctor is satisfied by his growth he is noticably smaller than his
brother at the moment.

I *swore* when I found out I was having twins that I wouldn't label/compare
the two boys, but I don't know how to describe my problem without doing so:

--Alex has a rather "whimpering" cry--it's loud enough to be heard, but
rarely escalates much, and if not answered within a few moments (unless he's
*really* desperate) it kinda winds down to a stop.

--Chris' cry starts out urgent and quickly escalates. It speeds through
"****ed off" to "I've been abandoned and amwaiting for the wolves to finish
me off panicky." If left unanswered for even a minute it crescendos to an
extent that his face is brick red and listening to it you're afraid he's
going to choke.

--Alex cries when he needs to. He'll lie there seemingly oblivious to his
brother's distress. Chris hears Alex cry and feels the need to join in.

--They both need to be held for feeding (they're bottle-fed), they both want
to be held for falling asleep and if they're awake (they don't seem to be
able to relax in the playpen if awake). Chris, however, can take upwards of
two hours to transition from awake to sleep and if he's put down before he's
totally asleep he wakes up upset and has to start transitioning all over
again. He also seems much more likely to have "grouchy" times: times where
he cries inconsolably for no apparent reason, sometimes for an hour or so at
a time.

I don't want to label one as an "easy" baby and the other as "difficult,"
but I do notice that Chris seems more likely to get "first dibs" on our
attention while Alex is more often forced to wait his turn. I hate this.
But I'm not sure what to do about it. At 5 wks of age reason and
negotiation seem out of the question :-/

How long can/should I leave Chris to cry before putting his brother down and
picking him up. *Is* there any way to teach Chris he has to "share" my time
with his brother? What damage am I potentially doing Alex by always putting
Chris first? How do you share yourself between your kids?

Marie
Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 (9 wks preemie)

[lizzard woman]

"Marie" > wrote in message
e.rogers.com...

> --They both need to be held for feeding (they're bottle-fed), they both
want
> to be held for falling asleep and if they're awake (they don't seem to be
> able to relax in the playpen if awake).

I'm not sure I understand this. While I tried to hold both my daughters
(also born 5 weeks early) one after the other, if they were very hungry, I
would put them in their seats and feed them their bottle like that. When
they were older, I would prop the bottles when I couldn't hold them both. I
was home alone for much of the first 4 months. My mother was there the
first month and after that I chose to do almost everything for the babies
though I did share them with my DH when pressed ; ) (Not to gie teh wrong
impression but we all live together.). I had a system that was working and
I wanted to stick to it, damn it! Went back to work when they were 4 months
old and then had to shared them with BOTH my DH and the babysitter.

They did have trouble going to sleep at night and my DH or I would sit in
the rocker and hold both together and rock them to sleep. Took less than 10
minutes usually. (That counted in the "sharing" time my DH had.) They also
rarely fell asleep in a playpen.

(snip)

> I don't want to label one as an "easy" baby and the other as "difficult,"
> but I do notice that Chris seems more likely to get "first dibs" on our
> attention while Alex is more often forced to wait his turn. I hate this.
> But I'm not sure what to do about it. At 5 wks of age reason and
> negotiation seem out of the question :-/


I also had a more difficult and a less difficult baby. I fed the easy babay
forst and then did the more difficult one usually. Nobody ever had to wait
their turn in re feeding. If both wanted to be held while feeding, I would
put one or both down in a seat and feed them simultaneously.

> How long can/should I leave Chris to cry before putting his brother down
and
> picking him up. *Is* there any way to teach Chris he has to "share" my
time
> with his brother? What damage am I potentially doing Alex by always
putting
> Chris first? How do you share yourself between your kids?

Apart from putting them down at night, I don't remember lots of occasions
when both babies wanted to be held simultaneously and I couldn't accommodate
that. I don't believe I ever had to choose like you are saying. I picked
them both up and would cuddle them in my lap or one in my lap and the other
on my shoulder. Or maybe they just weren't fussy or I just don't remember.
But my feeling upon reading your post was that I didn't have those problems.
The biggest problem was sleep deprivation for me.

Good luck.

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

[Marie]

"lizzard woman" > wrote in message
. ca...
> "Marie" > wrote in message
> e.rogers.com...
>
> > --They both need to be held for feeding (they're bottle-fed), they both
> want
> > to be held for falling asleep and if they're awake (they don't seem to
be
> > able to relax in the playpen if awake).
>
> I'm not sure I understand this. While I tried to hold both my daughters
> (also born 5 weeks early) one after the other, if they were very hungry, I
> would put them in their seats and feed them their bottle like that. When
> they were older, I would prop the bottles when I couldn't hold them both.
I
> was home alone for much of the first 4 months.

Sorry if I was unclear or incomplete--I was typing post between rotating
babies in my arms :-)

I will, if absolutely necessary, feed them their bottles while one or both
are in their seats but, particularly with Chris, they need to be burped
*regularly* (about every ounce or so) or they'll spit up over *everything.*
So even if I give both their bottles at the same time, there is the question
of burping them, which is a two-handed job.

> My mother was there the first month and after that I chose to do almost
everything for the babies
> though I did share them with my DH when pressed ; ) (Not to gie teh wrong
> impression but we all live together.). I had a system that was working
and
> I wanted to stick to it, damn it! Went back to work when they were 4
months
> old and then had to shared them with BOTH my DH and the babysitter.
>
> They did have trouble going to sleep at night and my DH or I would sit in
> the rocker and hold both together and rock them to sleep. Took less than
10
> minutes usually. (That counted in the "sharing" time my DH had.) They
also
> rarely fell asleep in a playpen.

Their playpen is down stairs in the family room, and currently acts like a
daytime bed: somewhere they can be in the same room where I usually am. At
night they have bassinets in our bedroom. There's a crib waiting for them
to share (and another one on the way) in the nursery when they begin
sleeping all the way through the night :-)

I'd *love* it if it only took 10 minutes for them to fall asleep. Alex will
sometimes transition in about 20 minutes: Chris, as I said, can take upwards
of 2 hours. With both of them, they seem to spend a lot of time in that
"transitional" phase--part awake and part asleep. If anything disturbs them
during that time--even the person holding them moving suddenly--they're
fully awake again and need to start falling asleep all over again :-( If
anyone has ideas as to how to help them fall asleep easier, I'm eager to
hear them.

>
> (snip)
>
> > I don't want to label one as an "easy" baby and the other as
"difficult,"
> > but I do notice that Chris seems more likely to get "first dibs" on our
> > attention while Alex is more often forced to wait his turn. I hate
this.
> > But I'm not sure what to do about it. At 5 wks of age reason and
> > negotiation seem out of the question :-/
>
>
> I also had a more difficult and a less difficult baby. I fed the easy
babay
> forst and then did the more difficult one usually. Nobody ever had to
wait
> their turn in re feeding. If both wanted to be held while feeding, I
would
> put one or both down in a seat and feed them simultaneously.
>
> > How long can/should I leave Chris to cry before putting his brother down
> and
> > picking him up. *Is* there any way to teach Chris he has to "share" my
> time
> > with his brother? What damage am I potentially doing Alex by always
> putting
> > Chris first? How do you share yourself between your kids?
>
> Apart from putting them down at night, I don't remember lots of occasions
> when both babies wanted to be held simultaneously and I couldn't
accommodate
> that. I don't believe I ever had to choose like you are saying. I picked
> them both up and would cuddle them in my lap or one in my lap and the
other
> on my shoulder.

I can sometimes manage one in a sling and the other on my shoulder, but none
of us seem to be comfortable when we try a threesome :-( Each boy wants the
centre chest position (head nestled between the tits). If I try and nestle
them both they start squirming and I start feeling like at least one of them
is in danger of falling :-(

>Or maybe they just weren't fussy or I just don't remember.
> But my feeling upon reading your post was that I didn't have those
problems.
> The biggest problem was sleep deprivation for me.
>
> Good luck.
>
> --
> sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)
>
>

[lizzard woman]

"Marie" > wrote in message
le.rogers.com...
>
> Sorry if I was unclear or incomplete--I was typing post between rotating
> babies in my arms :-)

No that wasn't so much a comment about your post being unclear (it wasn't).
It was a comment on my experience being very different and so I didn't fully
understand yours. ;-)

> I will, if absolutely necessary, feed them their bottles while one or both
> are in their seats but, particularly with Chris, they need to be burped
> *regularly* (about every ounce or so) or they'll spit up over
*everything.*
> So even if I give both their bottles at the same time, there is the
question
> of burping them, which is a two-handed job.

Oh THAT is a problem. I burped them after they drank their bottles (sitting
up, leaning slightly forward, not over my shoulder). I don't think I burped
them inbetween. Do you think there might be some issue with either how they
are drinking or the bottle/nipple that results in so much air in their
tummies?

> Their playpen is down stairs in the family room, and currently acts like a
> daytime bed: somewhere they can be in the same room where I usually am.
At
> night they have bassinets in our bedroom. There's a crib waiting for them
> to share (and another one on the way) in the nursery when they begin
> sleeping all the way through the night :-)

Yes I see. We had a one floor but I often let them sleep in their seats in
the livingroom during the day so they could be close to me.

> I'd *love* it if it only took 10 minutes for them to fall asleep. Alex
will
> sometimes transition in about 20 minutes: Chris, as I said, can take
upwards
> of 2 hours. With both of them, they seem to spend a lot of time in that
> "transitional" phase--part awake and part asleep. If anything disturbs
them
> during that time--even the person holding them moving suddenly--they're
> fully awake again and need to start falling asleep all over again :-( If
> anyone has ideas as to how to help them fall asleep easier, I'm eager to
> hear them.

Wow that sounds challenging. Perhaps I was lucky or perhaps we lucked into
an approach that resulted in them going down easily... I can't say. Do you
attempt to keep them on a schedule? I kept my girls on a schedule and they
really seemed to benefit from it. Eat, sleep, play, etc. all at specific
times. I don't believe I ever took 2 hours to put a baby to sleep unless
they were sick. I don't remember having much trouble in that department ...
my mother remarked they were "easy" babies so maybe I'm the wrong person to
ask. Maybe someone else from the group will advise you.


> I can sometimes manage one in a sling and the other on my shoulder, but
none
> of us seem to be comfortable when we try a threesome :-( Each boy wants
the
> centre chest position (head nestled between the tits). If I try and
nestle
> them both they start squirming and I start feeling like at least one of
them
> is in danger of falling :-(

Yes now that you menion it, I do recall holding them both could get
unweildy. But I have no recollection of fretting ove rnot being able to
hold both so I don't think I had a problem. But of course with the amount
of sleep I was (not) getting (I did all the night bottles and diaper changes
also), its perfectly possible I'm not remembering loads of stuff.

I hope others comment.

Best regards,

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

[Seth Jackson]

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 02:50:39 GMT, "Marie" > wrote:

>He also seems much more likely to have "grouchy" times: times where
>he cries inconsolably for no apparent reason, sometimes for an hour or so at
>a time.

Sounds like Chris may have colic.
--
-Seth Jackson, proud father of Derek and Mariel(10/1/99). Pictures at:
http://hitmeister.home.mindspring.com/familypictures.htm

Music links: www.mp3.com/SethJackson
www.mp3.com/loudspeaker
www.SethJackson.net

[Julie Seely]

Marie --

Like Sharon, I'm kind of distanced from the baby thing here, but a
couple of thoughts (I also had a spitter).

1) Get a swing. That might get Alex settled a bit more quickly. It
might not be something that Chris likes, as it might exacerbate the
spitting situation (Erica was a spitter, too, and didn't spend much time
in the swing for that reason).

2) Talk to the kids' pediatrician about this, but I think I would be
investigating other formulas for Chris. Maybe there's one that he would
digest better.

3) Do you have a vibrating bouncy seat? Maybe you could borrow one
from someone to see if that helps your kids settle.

At this point, you are in "survival mode", so just do whatever works,
and do not feel any guilt. You cannot spoil a newborn -- just do your
best to respond to their needs as best as you can.

And hang in there. You sound like you're handling things remarkably
well.

Julie
Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97

Marie wrote:
>
> My twin boys are 3 mo old (5wks corrected) and becoming as different as
> night and day.
>
> Alex (who started out the smaller one) has gained on his brother, now
> outweighing him by a pound or so. Chris' growth spurts have been
> overshadowed by a period of spitting up about half of everything he eats, so
> while the doctor is satisfied by his growth he is noticably smaller than his
> brother at the moment.
>
> I *swore* when I found out I was having twins that I wouldn't label/compare
> the two boys, but I don't know how to describe my problem without doing so:
>
> --Alex has a rather "whimpering" cry--it's loud enough to be heard, but
> rarely escalates much, and if not answered within a few moments (unless he's
> *really* desperate) it kinda winds down to a stop.
>
> --Chris' cry starts out urgent and quickly escalates. It speeds through
> "****ed off" to "I've been abandoned and amwaiting for the wolves to finish
> me off panicky." If left unanswered for even a minute it crescendos to an
> extent that his face is brick red and listening to it you're afraid he's
> going to choke.
>
> --Alex cries when he needs to. He'll lie there seemingly oblivious to his
> brother's distress. Chris hears Alex cry and feels the need to join in.
>
> --They both need to be held for feeding (they're bottle-fed), they both want
> to be held for falling asleep and if they're awake (they don't seem to be
> able to relax in the playpen if awake). Chris, however, can take upwards of
> two hours to transition from awake to sleep and if he's put down before he's
> totally asleep he wakes up upset and has to start transitioning all over
> again. He also seems much more likely to have "grouchy" times: times where
> he cries inconsolably for no apparent reason, sometimes for an hour or so at
> a time.
>
> I don't want to label one as an "easy" baby and the other as "difficult,"
> but I do notice that Chris seems more likely to get "first dibs" on our
> attention while Alex is more often forced to wait his turn. I hate this.
> But I'm not sure what to do about it. At 5 wks of age reason and
> negotiation seem out of the question :-/
>
> How long can/should I leave Chris to cry before putting his brother down and
> picking him up. *Is* there any way to teach Chris he has to "share" my time
> with his brother? What damage am I potentially doing Alex by always putting
> Chris first? How do you share yourself between your kids?
>
> Marie
> Chris and Alex--born 04/23/03 (9 wks preemie)

[Leslie]

"Marie" > wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
> My twin boys are 3 mo old (5wks corrected) and becoming as different as
> night and day.
>
> Alex (who started out the smaller one) has gained on his brother, now
> outweighing him by a pound or so.

My Alex was the same way at about that time. He was 1 1/2 pounds smaller at
birth, then between 2 and 3 months he caught up and surpassed his brother.
The next month Jordan was bigger again and has been anywhere from 1-4 pounds
bigger ever since. (They're 3 yrs now) Are your boys identical or fraternal,
if you know?

Chris' growth spurts have been
> overshadowed by a period of spitting up about half of everything he eats,
so
> while the doctor is satisfied by his growth he is noticably smaller than
his
> brother at the moment.

If the doctor is satisfied with his growth, then I wouldn't worry. If he
was a singleton, you wouldn't even notice that he wasn't gaining as quickly
as another baby.

>
> I *swore* when I found out I was having twins that I wouldn't
label/compare
> the two boys, but I don't know how to describe my problem without doing
so:
>
> --Alex has a rather "whimpering" cry--it's loud enough to be heard, but
> rarely escalates much, and if not answered within a few moments (unless
he's
> *really* desperate) it kinda winds down to a stop.
>
> --Chris' cry starts out urgent and quickly escalates. It speeds through
> "****ed off" to "I've been abandoned and amwaiting for the wolves to
finish
> me off panicky." If left unanswered for even a minute it crescendos to an
> extent that his face is brick red and listening to it you're afraid he's
> going to choke.
>
> --Alex cries when he needs to. He'll lie there seemingly oblivious to his
> brother's distress. Chris hears Alex cry and feels the need to join in.
>
> --They both need to be held for feeding (they're bottle-fed), they both
want
> to be held for falling asleep and if they're awake (they don't seem to be
> able to relax in the playpen if awake). Chris, however, can take upwards
of
> two hours to transition from awake to sleep and if he's put down before
he's
> totally asleep he wakes up upset and has to start transitioning all over
> again. He also seems much more likely to have "grouchy" times: times
where
> he cries inconsolably for no apparent reason, sometimes for an hour or so
at
> a time.

Does Chris have colic? Both of my boys were colicky and I thought I'd go
insane! I discovered Mylicon drops and things got better.

>
> I don't want to label one as an "easy" baby and the other as "difficult,"
> but I do notice that Chris seems more likely to get "first dibs" on our
> attention while Alex is more often forced to wait his turn. I hate this.
> But I'm not sure what to do about it.

They have different needs. It's hard to balance out those needs, but it
seems Chris needs the attention more. If Alex is content waiting then, it's
no big deal. Even now, I sometimes have a hard time with this. My boys will
both say "Need you Mom," but if one is hurt and crying, then he gets me
first instead of the one who needs me to find a toy, for example.


At 5 wks of age reason and
> negotiation seem out of the question :-/
>
> How long can/should I leave Chris to cry before putting his brother down
and
> picking him up. *Is* there any way to teach Chris he has to "share" my
time
> with his brother?

Not at that age, unfortunately. :-/

What damage am I potentially doing Alex by always putting
> Chris first?

None. There will be plenty of shifts in balance where you'll have to put
Alex first. They'll both learn that you love them and will take care of them
when they "need" you. They'll also learn that you'll take care of their
brother. My kids are at the age where they really seem to care that I take
care of their brother's needs. They'll often tell me that the other one
needs something. It's kind of nice that they seem to look out for each
other.

How do you share yourself between your kids?

You just do the best you can. I remember worrying so much about the same
thing when mine were babies. Now, although I still worry, it's become more
the way I would assume parents with more than one singleton would be. Just
splitting your time between them. As they get older, you'll find ways to
give them one-on-one attention. When they're so little, it seems like all
your time is spent doing the absolutely necessary physical things-feeding,
changing, burping, holding. Even in a couple months, they'll start playing
more, and you'll find it easier to give them both attention while the other
is occupied with something.

Good luck. Twins really are so wonderful. I can't imagine only having one.

Leslie
Alex and Jordan, 3-year-old ID boys

[Cindy Senger]

>>
>> If the doctor is satisfied with his growth, then I wouldn't worry. If he
>> was a singleton, you wouldn't even notice that he wasn't gaining as
>quickly
>> as another baby.
>
>That's what the doctor says. I wasn't worried about it, then started to
>worry when 3 experienced moms all said he seemed to be throwing up a lot,
>then (tried) to stop worrying again when the doctor once again told me he
>was doing well :-/
>

If it makes you feel any better, Ashlyn was a "spitter" too-- to the point that
she would throw up an average of two feedings a day-- I mean the whole thing to
the point that we would have to re-feed her in a few minutes. She would soak
herself, the person feeding her, the couch, the floor, even the wall a few
times. Our ped said she had reflux but never put her on any meds because she
was still gaining weight. Things got much better when we introduced cereal
and baby food at around six months. So, there is hope!

As for worrying about the division of attention, I will second what another
poster said, you are in survival mode right now. Just do the best you can and
try not to second-guess yourself. It sounds to me like you're doing great!

-Cindy (mom to Ashlyn and Allyson 6/99 and Jenna 6/03)

[Digital Larry]

"Marie" > wrote in
e.rogers.com:

> My twin boys are 3 mo old (5wks corrected) and becoming as different
> as night and day.

This sounds real similar to our little guys, now at just about the same age
(I am too fried to do the mental math). Reed was vertex in the lower
position and his membrane ruptured at 32 wks + some days. 2 days later
after much magnesium sulfate IV (which we eventually gave up on) they were
born. Martin was "stubborn baby B" and had to have AROM and came out an
hour later.

Martin was born and remains smaller, spits up a lot. He has been
prescribed Ranitidine (Zantac) which really does seem to help reduce the
pain of urping (this is what I call spitting up). He still urps a lot,
especially right after laying down, however he does not appear to be
bothered by it (one of the few things).

Last night when I began to feed him he spit up immediately and it was all
curdled, to me the sign of lots of acid. We gave him the ranitidine and he
eventually settled down and had a decent 4 oz. but I have also experienced
it that the ranitidine totally kills the appetite... it is recommended to
administer towards the end or after a feeding for this reason.

> --Alex has a rather "whimpering" cry--it's loud enough to be heard,
> but rarely escalates much, and if not answered within a few moments
> (unless he's *really* desperate) it kinda winds down to a stop.

Reed's cry is like this, though he does get insistent - I'd describe it as
a whine/shriek. However he usually does this for a discernable reason -
hungry, diaper, too hot, etc.

> --Chris' cry starts out urgent and quickly escalates. It speeds
> through "****ed off" to "I've been abandoned and amwaiting for the
> wolves to finish me off panicky." If left unanswered for even a
> minute it crescendos to an extent that his face is brick red and
> listening to it you're afraid he's going to choke.

Martin can go from a calm sleep to 5 alarm in a flash.

> He also seems
> much more likely to have "grouchy" times: times where he cries
> inconsolably for no apparent reason, sometimes for an hour or so at
> a time.
We're going through a bit of that with Martin right now though it seems to
center around feeding activities. He DOES love getting a sponge bath
though... unfortunately the bath has to end sometime.

> I don't want to label one as an "easy" baby and the other as
> "difficult," but I do notice that Chris seems more likely to get
> "first dibs" on our attention while Alex is more often forced to wait
> his turn. I hate this. But I'm not sure what to do about it. At 5
> wks of age reason and negotiation seem out of the question :-/

Yep. Reed is generally cool customer. Martin has us bouncing off the
walls as it is not always possible to deduce the source of his unhappiness.

I can't really help you but you are not alone.

Gary
father to Martin and Reed b. 5/6/03, 7 weeks preemie