Hello and breastfeeding question

[Ellie]

Hello Everybody

I've been lurking for a few weeks to see what this group is like and thought
I'd better introduce myself now.

I'm Ellie, expecting IVF twins on teh 9th November, after many years of
trying!

The group is great and I've already had lots of good info but I have got a
question about breastfeeding. I REALLY want to breastfeed and then move
onto expressed breastmilk when I have to go back to work and my DH gets to
take the nightshift instead! Any advice will be greatly appreciated on any
aspect of breastfeeding twins.

Ellie

[Tanya Makins]

Hi, just to make the logistics of it easier, those angled cushions from
Blooming Marvellous are 'marvellous' for breast feeding and bottle feeding,
they're a bit like a neck pillow but on a bigger scale. I used to lay the
twins one either side with their heads together in front of me and hey
presto!! they're really secure and you can relax and enjoy.
Tanya
Ellie > wrote in message
...
> Hello Everybody
>
> I've been lurking for a few weeks to see what this group is like and
thought
> I'd better introduce myself now.
>
> I'm Ellie, expecting IVF twins on teh 9th November, after many years of
> trying!
>
> The group is great and I've already had lots of good info but I have got a
> question about breastfeeding. I REALLY want to breastfeed and then move
> onto expressed breastmilk when I have to go back to work and my DH gets to
> take the nightshift instead! Any advice will be greatly appreciated on
any
> aspect of breastfeeding twins.
>
> Ellie
>
>
>
>

[Ducky Lawyer]

Ellie wrote:
> Hello Everybody
>
> I've been lurking for a few weeks to see what this group is like and thought
> I'd better introduce myself now.
>
> I'm Ellie, expecting IVF twins on teh 9th November, after many years of
> trying!

Congratulations, times two! My best wishes for a happy, healthy
pregnancy / rwst of pregnancy

> The group is great and I've already had lots of good info but I have got a
> question about breastfeeding. I REALLY want to breastfeed and then move
> onto expressed breastmilk when I have to go back to work and my DH gets to
> take the nightshift instead! Any advice will be greatly appreciated on any
> aspect of breastfeeding twins.
>
Good for you to be thinking of this early -- breastfeeding is a
wonderful thing to do for your little ones, and yes, it can be done.

These are thoughts off the top of my head (while I pump milk for some
bottle feeding by dad and Grandpa later!), so bear with me. I only have
a few minutes so I'll start with the basics first...I'll address
breastfeeding first, since your second concern, going back to work,
*will* happen after you've had a good start with your little ones. If I
have time, I'll write about pumping, storing milk, etc.,
I recommend a few things as the basics:
-- a good twin breastfeeding pillow, something made for two babies.
Mine is made by a local mother of twins who sells hers within the
parents of twins club, but there are others online (you don't mention
where you live). You could ask for one of these as a shower or baby
gift, or invest the money yourself. EVERYONE I know with twins suggests
one of these, including those who didn't breastfeed long (it was still
useful in other ways).
-- a good book on breastfeeding (since the reasons for breastfeeding and
the techniques are the same for one as two or more), like _So That's
What They are For_. Again, a lot of moms I know *swear* by this book
for giving them the basics of breastfeeding in an interesting, easy to
read manner without "lecturing" at you!

--If you want more information or like reading, you should also read a
good book on breastfeeding for twins, the La Leche League's _Mothering
Multiples_ (Note that most books about twin parenting seem to be less
enthusiastic about breastfeeding and/or contain inaccurate advice about
how to start and maintain breastfeeding. This one's a good one, if a
little preachy and biased at times.) This book is also a good general
parenting book as well, so worth reading at any rate.

(I packed this one in my bag for the hospital, and used it often in the
early days! I'm still referring to it from time to time, re:
introducing solids, dealing with going back to work, that sort of thing)


--Get support at home. You'll **need** help anyway, and it's easier to
breastfeed two (even if one at a time) than find the time and money for
bottles of formula, **especially** in those early weeks and months when
everything's a challenge. One of the reasons it's easier is because you
can feed two hungry babies at once, or cuddle one on the pillow while
the other nurses; it's more difficult to feed two babies by bottle at
the same time without help (Ask my husband, who's alone with the babies
2-3 times a week).

--Get support outside the home. Join a group of parents of multiples in
your area. I'm not sure where you're posting from, but there are
national, state/provincial and local/city groups of parents of
twins/triplets and more. Seek out help from the group about twin
breastfeeding...try to find someone who is/was successful with
breastfeeding and pumping.
Support outside the home includes visiting a breastfeeding clinic (if
there's one around) and/or seeing lactation consulatants as you're able.
We had no real problems but found it great to have that support and
contact. We went weekly for the first month or so, and then still drop
in every once in a while with questions. We got excellent information
about solids and general health issues from our nurses/LCs on our last
visit, in fact.

--Tell the hospital staff **not** to allow bottles at all, and to
consult you if they want to give anything at all. In my case, I had a
very serious post partum condition so the staff gave my girls sugar
water, then formula, while I recovered...they used nasal tubes (down the
nose into the throat) to avoid any nipple confusion. This is *key* for
some babies, not to get bottles early.

--Be a little pigheaded about it. You've already got one of the
important elements to successful breastfeeding (and successful
parenting) -- a positive attitude with a willingness to learn and
prepare to apply those new skills! A little stubbornness in this regard
goes a long wya. Think of it this way: you don't wake up in the morning
and say you'll "try" to walk or drive to work. You know that technically
or literally there's some risk that you'll be hit by a bus or that your
car will break down, but you put those risks in the back of your mind
and go on with your day. Same with breastfeeding -- yes, there are
increased chances for difficulties with breastfeeding twins but the
longer you do it, and the more effort you put into it up front, the
better success you'll have.

And, as my late uncle used to say, "Don't let the turkeys get you down!"
Ignore people who say things like, "Oh, my milk dried up at 6 weeks"
(no, that was probably just a growth spurt, the baby drinking more to
increase production...), "You won't have time to nurse two" (actually
it's faster to breastfeed two - once everyone's learned how - than suse
bottles; and heck, babies take time to care for anyway!), "I couldn't do
it so you can't" (IU heard this directly and indirectly from other
mother sof twins, and it wasn't true for me. I've had a very positive
breastfeeding experience, in fact)

Finally, on pumping - I have to sign off here, but here are a few
tho8ughts:"
(If I don't have time - here's my pumping advice in a nutshell --
Don't worry about pumping before 6-7 weeks unless your children need it
(in hospital),
Get a good quality double pump, like the Medela Pump in Style. A
single pump won't likely help you enough -- you'll need soemthing
stronger and faster.
Try to build up a stash in your freezer a month or so before you go back
to work. Drink lots of water.
Make arrangements with your boss or employer to pump at work on breaks,
at a regular interval.
Nurse lots whenever you are home/have time)

In summary: Get support from a pillow, from family, from parents who've
"been there". Get information. Get to it ;-)

Hope this helps,
Barbara

[Ducky Lawyer]

Julie Seely wrote:
> Hi, Ellie, and welcome --
>
> I breastfed my two for 16 months, but I worked only one day/week.
>
> The *best* advice I got was to stick with it for six weeks, even if it's
> going poorly. In my case, that meant a lot of pumping and
> bottle-feeding, as my two arrived 5+ weeks early and took a long time to
> learn to nurse, but yes, at six weeks all of the early problems were
> gone.

Yes, this is true for singletons and twins! Six weeks is the major
turning point in breastfeeding and general infant care, I've found.
Making 6 weeks your mini-goal may help a lot.
Haivng the major goal of one year looming can be daunting....and six
weeks is a good first step, especially if you're facing extra challenges
like pumping for children in the hospital, fighting post partum issues
and the like.

Good luck!
--Barbara

[Truffles]

Ducky Lawyer wrote:
>
>
> Ellie wrote:
>
>> Hello Everybody
>>
>> I've been lurking for a few weeks to see what this group is like and
>> thought
>> I'd better introduce myself now.
>>
>> I'm Ellie, expecting IVF twins on teh 9th November, after many years of
>> trying!
>
>
> Congratulations, times two! My best wishes for a happy, healthy
> pregnancy / rwst of pregnancy
>
>> The group is great and I've already had lots of good info but I have
>> got a
>> question about breastfeeding. I REALLY want to breastfeed and then move
>> onto expressed breastmilk when I have to go back to work and my DH
>> gets to
>> take the nightshift instead! Any advice will be greatly appreciated
>> on any
>> aspect of breastfeeding twins.
>>
> Good for you to be thinking of this early -- breastfeeding is a
> wonderful thing to do for your little ones, and yes, it can be done.
>
> These are thoughts off the top of my head (while I pump milk for some
> bottle feeding by dad and Grandpa later!), so bear with me. I only have
> a few minutes so I'll start with the basics first...I'll address
> breastfeeding first, since your second concern, going back to work,
> *will* happen after you've had a good start with your little ones. If I
> have time, I'll write about pumping, storing milk, etc.,
> I recommend a few things as the basics:
> -- a good twin breastfeeding pillow, something made for two babies. Mine
> is made by a local mother of twins who sells hers within the parents of
> twins club, but there are others online (you don't mention where you
> live). You could ask for one of these as a shower or baby gift, or
> invest the money yourself. EVERYONE I know with twins suggests one of
> these, including those who didn't breastfeed long (it was still useful
> in other ways).
> -- a good book on breastfeeding (since the reasons for breastfeeding and
> the techniques are the same for one as two or more), like _So That's
> What They are For_. Again, a lot of moms I know *swear* by this book
> for giving them the basics of breastfeeding in an interesting, easy to
> read manner without "lecturing" at you!
>
> --If you want more information or like reading, you should also read a
> good book on breastfeeding for twins, the La Leche League's _Mothering
> Multiples_ (Note that most books about twin parenting seem to be less
> enthusiastic about breastfeeding and/or contain inaccurate advice about
> how to start and maintain breastfeeding. This one's a good one, if a
> little preachy and biased at times.) This book is also a good general
> parenting book as well, so worth reading at any rate.
>
> (I packed this one in my bag for the hospital, and used it often in the
> early days! I'm still referring to it from time to time, re:
> introducing solids, dealing with going back to work, that sort of thing)
>
>
> --Get support at home. You'll **need** help anyway, and it's easier to
> breastfeed two (even if one at a time) than find the time and money for
> bottles of formula, **especially** in those early weeks and months when
> everything's a challenge. One of the reasons it's easier is because you
> can feed two hungry babies at once, or cuddle one on the pillow while
> the other nurses; it's more difficult to feed two babies by bottle at
> the same time without help (Ask my husband, who's alone with the babies
> 2-3 times a week).
>
> --Get support outside the home. Join a group of parents of multiples in
> your area. I'm not sure where you're posting from, but there are
> national, state/provincial and local/city groups of parents of
> twins/triplets and more. Seek out help from the group about twin
> breastfeeding...try to find someone who is/was successful with
> breastfeeding and pumping.
> Support outside the home includes visiting a breastfeeding clinic (if
> there's one around) and/or seeing lactation consulatants as you're able.
> We had no real problems but found it great to have that support and
> contact. We went weekly for the first month or so, and then still drop
> in every once in a while with questions. We got excellent information
> about solids and general health issues from our nurses/LCs on our last
> visit, in fact.
>
> --Tell the hospital staff **not** to allow bottles at all, and to
> consult you if they want to give anything at all. In my case, I had a
> very serious post partum condition so the staff gave my girls sugar
> water, then formula, while I recovered...they used nasal tubes (down the
> nose into the throat) to avoid any nipple confusion. This is *key* for
> some babies, not to get bottles early.
>
> --Be a little pigheaded about it. You've already got one of the
> important elements to successful breastfeeding (and successful
> parenting) -- a positive attitude with a willingness to learn and
> prepare to apply those new skills! A little stubbornness in this regard
> goes a long wya. Think of it this way: you don't wake up in the morning
> and say you'll "try" to walk or drive to work. You know that technically
> or literally there's some risk that you'll be hit by a bus or that your
> car will break down, but you put those risks in the back of your mind
> and go on with your day. Same with breastfeeding -- yes, there are
> increased chances for difficulties with breastfeeding twins but the
> longer you do it, and the more effort you put into it up front, the
> better success you'll have.
>
> And, as my late uncle used to say, "Don't let the turkeys get you down!"
> Ignore people who say things like, "Oh, my milk dried up at 6 weeks"
> (no, that was probably just a growth spurt, the baby drinking more to
> increase production...), "You won't have time to nurse two" (actually
> it's faster to breastfeed two - once everyone's learned how - than suse
> bottles; and heck, babies take time to care for anyway!), "I couldn't do
> it so you can't" (IU heard this directly and indirectly from other
> mother sof twins, and it wasn't true for me. I've had a very positive
> breastfeeding experience, in fact)
>
> Finally, on pumping - I have to sign off here, but here are a few
> tho8ughts:"
> (If I don't have time - here's my pumping advice in a nutshell --
> Don't worry about pumping before 6-7 weeks unless your children need it
> (in hospital),
> Get a good quality double pump, like the Medela Pump in Style. A
> single pump won't likely help you enough -- you'll need soemthing
> stronger and faster.
> Try to build up a stash in your freezer a month or so before you go back
> to work. Drink lots of water.
> Make arrangements with your boss or employer to pump at work on breaks,
> at a regular interval.
> Nurse lots whenever you are home/have time)
>
> In summary: Get support from a pillow, from family, from parents who've
> "been there". Get information. Get to it ;-)

Barbara has pretty much covered it all.

I guess the only thing I would stress is the danger of early
introduction of bottles. One of my twins ended up nipple confused due
to bottles in the hospital and as a result she would NOT nurse without
her brother starting the letdown. Actually, it was more of a bottle
preference but you get the idea.

If you absolutely have to supplement, consider getting a device like an
SNS or Lactaid.

Listen to Barbara, she's doing it. Nursing, working, pumping. These
are the type of people you want to surround yourself with (even if they
are virtual) and ditch the nay-sayers. Pig-headedness is a virtue in
this instance. :-)

--
Brigitte aa #2145
edd #3 February 15, 2004
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

[H Schinske]

Brigitte ) wrote:

>Listen to Barbara, she's doing it. Nursing, working, pumping. These
>are the type of people you want to surround yourself with (even if they
>are virtual) and ditch the nay-sayers. Pig-headedness is a virtue in
>this instance. :-)

Yup! And speaking of pig-headedness, one interesting statistic I've read is
that fewer mothers of twins may start out breastfeeding at all, but of those
who do, a much higher percentage than moms of singletons are still nursing at
one year.

In my own case, I know it was made easier for me in some respects *because* I
had twins -- because everyone in my family said Oh my gawd, twins, we have to
help! and came and helped me through the early weeks (doing everything *but*
feeding, I hardly changed a diaper for weeks). I don't think there would have
been such a concerted effort if I had just had one baby at a time :-)

--Helen

[Rhiann1048]

>Subject: Re: Hello and breastfeeding question
>From: Digital Larry
>Date: Fri, Aug 1, 2003 1:18 AM
>Message-id: >
>
>Our boys never really got the hang of it. Born at 32 wks 5 d, they were
>
>tube, then bottle fed in NICU for several weeks, no doubt that contributed
>
>to the problem. DW did try repeatedly to BF in NICU with very limited
>success. Also no experience as these are our first. Another problem was
>
>that DW's nipples grew to about 5 times their normal size and preemie kids
>
>had very hard time latching on as their mouths were pretty small. For the
>
>record we did not make that excuse up, the doctor did.
>
>I was not much help. I don't read too much about people who have NOT had
>
>great success with BF, I think there is a great stigma associated with
>this "failure" and few women are willing to get up in a public forum like
>
>this and say "well it didn't work too well for me". I checked all the
>responses so far and nobody said anything other than: it was hard but it
>
>ultimately worked.
>
>My wife felt terrible about it but was able to pump and get a little bit
>
>less until 12 weeks where the amount she was getting was only about 5% of
>
>their total intake. This stress combined with general exhaustion (we do
>
>not have extensive network of able bodied in laws to take care of
>everything - just us two trying to handle everything). When you put the
>
>kid to the breast and he screams bloody murder and thrashes for 15 minutes,
>
>then when you give him a bottle he is just ducky... how many times is the
>
>average person going to repeat that scene?
>
>Today she talked with a good friend who did NOT have twins, their son was
>
>NOT premature, and had much the same issues and gave up after 3.5 months.
>
>OB/GYN and Ped. were both supportive in the "do what you can do" and "don't
>
>feel guilty" sort of way. I am just here to say that you may have an
>immensely difficult time, esp. if you do not have successful BF experience
>
>already and/or the active, ongoing support of other people with experience
>
>or perhaps even a professional lactation consultant.
>
>This may turn out to be a very unpopular point of view. I wish you the
>
>best of luck.

<<applause>>

This is one issue that *really* pushes my buttons. I have seen so many women
beat themselves over not being able to breastfeed, even my own mother.

And don't get me started on 'professional' lactation consultants...

If you can breastfeed? That is wonderful. If for whatever reason it does not
work out you are *not* selfish or a failure and you are not going to 'poison'
your baby by using formula. Don't let *anyone* make you feel 'less than'
because of this issue. They do not have your body nor do they have your
children. Follow your gut and do what is best for *your* familly. Whatever
that turns out to be.

Off my soapbox...

Lori

[Julie Seely]

Ducky Lawyer wrote:
>
>
<snip>

> Off the top of my head, I'd say agree with you that one of the
> challenges you faced was actually created by the hospital, giving your
> premiees bottles. That's really too bad (hospitals do vary in this
> respect; some would not have allowed/suggested bottles without
> exhausting other methods for example.)
>

Ellie --

We've had a couple of women check in here re nipple confusion; I just
want to check in as someone whose kids did NOT experience it (though the
Lactation Consultant at the hospital, who was, in my opinion,
overzealous (especially while my hormones were bottoming out!!!), told
me that they WOULD have nipple confusion, and would NEVER nurse if I
started giving them bottles of expressed milk; my sister, who was in Med
school at the time, told me the same thing. The only dissenting opinion
on this was the kids' pediatrician, who said he thought they'd be just
fine, and that often "nipple confusion" was attributed to many unrelated
nursing problems experienced even by those whose kids had NEVER had
bottles -- bad latch, poor tongue positioning, etc. -- and though a
risk, it was NOT as common as the LC and my sister thought). The kids
were falling asleep immediately upon latching and getting no milk, a
common phenomenon with preemies, and after a few days, they were still
losing weight. I was offered the option of a supplemental nursing
system, but I didn't choose that option. I just pumped, and we gave the
kids bottles.

Once we got home (we never had help at night), it was frankly *much*
better that my husband could feed the babies in the middle of the night
if I was too exhausted to do so.

Just my experience, and I know that others' experience varies, but I
don't want you to think that nipple confusion is an absolute given.
It's not. The fear of it, though, is what made me make sure to let them
try to nurse at least a couple of times each day, so that they had
practice latching and sucking. Little by little, they stopped falling
asleep, and started actually nursing. Did that make a difference?
Maybe, maybe not. But I did it, so I'm passing it along.

<snip>
> I think the tone and content of the responses is because the OP asked
> for help with preparing to breastfeed, and we (the responders/posters)
> respected that.

Yes, this is exactly why I framed my response positively. I also feel
it's important not to be hard on yourself if it doesn't work for you.
But it absolutely, positively can be done, and indisputably benefits the
babies.

Julie
Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97

[Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)]

We did both bottles and BFing for 8 months. I didn't find BFing
particularly easier (sorry!), but stuck through it until the twins started
to walk at which time they didn't want to sit still and so they carried
their bottles, I continued to pump but that didn't pan out the way I wanted
to so in total we did 9 months of BFing of some kind. The twins never
seemed to have nipple confusion - our consultant actually said she didn't
see a problem as long the babies kept growing and didn't refuse the nipple
when offered. I heard from all kinds of moms who said they BF for over a
year etc, etc, but I did what I thought was right and comfortable for me.
We too had no support and it was just the two of us - my MIL didn't even see
the babies until they were 5 months old!!! My SIL never saw them until just
recently (8 years), I haven't any siblings and my dad did come to help when
he could but dad could only do laundry. So I think mom's need to be patted
on the back, and given hugs for whatever they mottle through this first
phase of mothering. BFing is wonderful but it too is a personal decision.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95

"Julie Seely" > wrote in message
...
> Ducky Lawyer wrote:
> >
> >
> <snip>
>
> > Off the top of my head, I'd say agree with you that one of the
> > challenges you faced was actually created by the hospital, giving your
> > premiees bottles. That's really too bad (hospitals do vary in this
> > respect; some would not have allowed/suggested bottles without
> > exhausting other methods for example.)
> >
>
> Ellie --
>
> We've had a couple of women check in here re nipple confusion; I just
> want to check in as someone whose kids did NOT experience it (though the
> Lactation Consultant at the hospital, who was, in my opinion,
> overzealous (especially while my hormones were bottoming out!!!), told
> me that they WOULD have nipple confusion, and would NEVER nurse if I
> started giving them bottles of expressed milk; my sister, who was in Med
> school at the time, told me the same thing. The only dissenting opinion
> on this was the kids' pediatrician, who said he thought they'd be just
> fine, and that often "nipple confusion" was attributed to many unrelated
> nursing problems experienced even by those whose kids had NEVER had
> bottles -- bad latch, poor tongue positioning, etc. -- and though a
> risk, it was NOT as common as the LC and my sister thought). The kids
> were falling asleep immediately upon latching and getting no milk, a
> common phenomenon with preemies, and after a few days, they were still
> losing weight. I was offered the option of a supplemental nursing
> system, but I didn't choose that option. I just pumped, and we gave the
> kids bottles.
>
> Once we got home (we never had help at night), it was frankly *much*
> better that my husband could feed the babies in the middle of the night
> if I was too exhausted to do so.
>
> Just my experience, and I know that others' experience varies, but I
> don't want you to think that nipple confusion is an absolute given.
> It's not. The fear of it, though, is what made me make sure to let them
> try to nurse at least a couple of times each day, so that they had
> practice latching and sucking. Little by little, they stopped falling
> asleep, and started actually nursing. Did that make a difference?
> Maybe, maybe not. But I did it, so I'm passing it along.
>
> <snip>
> > I think the tone and content of the responses is because the OP asked
> > for help with preparing to breastfeed, and we (the responders/posters)
> > respected that.
>
> Yes, this is exactly why I framed my response positively. I also feel
> it's important not to be hard on yourself if it doesn't work for you.
> But it absolutely, positively can be done, and indisputably benefits the
> babies.
>
> Julie
> Mom to Erica & Chris, 07/97

[C Straka]

I just have to respond here. Larry, I'm sorry I wasn't on this list when you
and your wife were going through this, as I would have been quick to stand
up and say 'me too'. Our singleton DD was what our ped called a 'lazy baby'
who just didn't want to BF. She was one month old and still had not regained
her birth weight. So we reluctantly put her on formula and she gained 9 oz
weight in 4 days. It was a no-brainer for us - Alison officially became an
Enfalac girl.

When the boys were born, I had no compunction about choosing formula from
day 1. (There were a number of reasons for this decision, only one of which
was the previous lack of success.) I am fully aware that breastmilk is
nutritionally superior to formula, but you don't get the nutritional
advantage if you can't get the breastmilk into them!

I should also say that this NG has always been amazingly supportive about
the different choices that parents make - completely unlike every other
parent-related NG I have ever visited. This place has had discussions about
BF, spanking, sleeping, etc. but they have always been thoughtful and
respectful of other's opinions.

So for anyone on the NG, you will find lots of good advice and support for
breastfeeding multiples, but you will also find support if you choose for
whatever reason to use bottle-feeding instead.

Claudia (mom to Alison 8/95; Timothy and Cameron 4/99)

"Digital Larry" > wrote in message
.11...
> Our boys never really got the hang of it. Born at 32 wks 5 d, they were
> tube, then bottle fed in NICU for several weeks, no doubt that contributed
> to the problem. DW did try repeatedly to BF in NICU with very limited
> success. Also no experience as these are our first. Another problem was
> that DW's nipples grew to about 5 times their normal size and preemie kids
> had very hard time latching on as their mouths were pretty small. For the
> record we did not make that excuse up, the doctor did.
>
> I was not much help. I don't read too much about people who have NOT had
> great success with BF, I think there is a great stigma associated with
> this "failure" and few women are willing to get up in a public forum like
> this and say "well it didn't work too well for me". I checked all the
> responses so far and nobody said anything other than: it was hard but it
> ultimately worked.
>
> My wife felt terrible about it but was able to pump and get a little bit
> less until 12 weeks where the amount she was getting was only about 5% of
> their total intake. This stress combined with general exhaustion (we do
> not have extensive network of able bodied in laws to take care of
> everything - just us two trying to handle everything). When you put the
> kid to the breast and he screams bloody murder and thrashes for 15
minutes,
> then when you give him a bottle he is just ducky... how many times is the
> average person going to repeat that scene?
>
> Today she talked with a good friend who did NOT have twins, their son was
> NOT premature, and had much the same issues and gave up after 3.5 months.
>
> OB/GYN and Ped. were both supportive in the "do what you can do" and
"don't
> feel guilty" sort of way. I am just here to say that you may have an
> immensely difficult time, esp. if you do not have successful BF experience
> already and/or the active, ongoing support of other people with experience
> or perhaps even a professional lactation consultant.
>
> This may turn out to be a very unpopular point of view. I wish you the
> best of luck.

[Erica Carwile]

For the record "well it didn't work too well for me" ;-)

I had to check the post and make sure you were not my husband! We had the
same experience only ours were a week older. They tried but never latched
on very well and were very lazy not wanting to suck. They more screamed at
the breast then ate. I must say the hospital I was at was very supportive
of me trying to BF the twins, which I more often hear just the opposite.
Even some of the "professionals" tend to discourage mothers of mulitples
from breastfeeding. Plus I was not producing enough for one let alone two.
I even went on some medication that is for some other purpose but one of the
side effects is increased production. Did not help me any at all. After
about the 1st two weeks of them getting food, I was more supplementing the
formula then the other way around. After the kids came home from the
hospital (30 days later) I gave up even trying to bf but continued to pump
for a couple of months. By then I was getting about 5 oz at a time, my
supply dried up really quick, and I finally gave up even trying.

So its not always possible but if you want to, go for it. Find supportive
people (such as a lactation consultant which our hospital had free of
charge) because that will make all the difference. I know I would not have
hung in there for as long as I did without the support.

If it doesn't work out, at least you know you tried your best!

- Erica


"Digital Larry" > wrote in message
.11...
> Our boys never really got the hang of it. Born at 32 wks 5 d, they were
> tube, then bottle fed in NICU for several weeks, no doubt that contributed
> to the problem. DW did try repeatedly to BF in NICU with very limited
> success. Also no experience as these are our first. Another problem was
> that DW's nipples grew to about 5 times their normal size and preemie kids
> had very hard time latching on as their mouths were pretty small. For the
> record we did not make that excuse up, the doctor did.
>
> I was not much help. I don't read too much about people who have NOT had
> great success with BF, I think there is a great stigma associated with
> this "failure" and few women are willing to get up in a public forum like
> this and say "well it didn't work too well for me". I checked all the
> responses so far and nobody said anything other than: it was hard but it
> ultimately worked.
>
> My wife felt terrible about it but was able to pump and get a little bit
> less until 12 weeks where the amount she was getting was only about 5% of
> their total intake. This stress combined with general exhaustion (we do
> not have extensive network of able bodied in laws to take care of
> everything - just us two trying to handle everything). When you put the
> kid to the breast and he screams bloody murder and thrashes for 15
minutes,
> then when you give him a bottle he is just ducky... how many times is the
> average person going to repeat that scene?
>
> Today she talked with a good friend who did NOT have twins, their son was
> NOT premature, and had much the same issues and gave up after 3.5 months.
>
> OB/GYN and Ped. were both supportive in the "do what you can do" and
"don't
> feel guilty" sort of way. I am just here to say that you may have an
> immensely difficult time, esp. if you do not have successful BF experience
> already and/or the active, ongoing support of other people with experience
> or perhaps even a professional lactation consultant.
>
> This may turn out to be a very unpopular point of view. I wish you the
> best of luck.

[H Schinske]

Larry ) wrote:

>Another problem was
>that DW's nipples grew to about 5 times their normal size and preemie kids
>had very hard time latching on as their mouths were pretty small. For the
>record we did not make that excuse up, the doctor did.

One thing that your post made me think of, though it is rather different from
what you were actually talking about, is that many women's areolas (the
pigmented area around the nipple) are quite large or get much larger during
pregnancy. Some books/consultants will actually say that the baby needs to be
getting all of the areola in its mouth. Well, sorry, that's not possible if the
areola is the size of a pancake! What is actually meant is that the baby must
be getting a significant quantity of areola on each side of the nipple, and not
be sucking just at the tip of the nipple.

My original goal was six weeks, and there were times I didn't think I would
make it. By six weeks I felt entirely differently about it and as though we had
only just started, but if things had not worked out, I was prepared to switch
to formula without a qualm. If you know you've done the best you could under
the circumstances you were given, there is no sense in feeling guilty. I think
it's undoubtedly true that any amount of breastmilk is worth giving them,
especially for premies, and the benefits are the greatest in the beginning.

I do think many breastfeeding difficulties (speaking in general here, now, not
so much specific twin-related or premie-related stuff) stem from lack of
knowledge in the general population and lack of support for families with new
babies in general. It isn't even so much that people need to know specific
facts, it's that it would be so much more comfortable and easy to breastfeed if
it were just generally accepted that that was what one did, and everyone had
grown up seeing women do it. Just as it's easier to have confidence in learning
to cook if you've grown up watching folks cut up onions and such.

--Helen

[Nick Theodorakis]

On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:26:04 GMT, "C Straka" >
wrote:

[...]

>I should also say that this NG has always been amazingly supportive about
>the different choices that parents make - completely unlike every other
>parent-related NG I have ever visited.


Shhh!! That's supposed to be a secret! ;-)

Nick

--
Nick Theodorakis

[Ellie]

All the views on breastfeeding are helpful, successful or not and its
certainly prompting a list of questions to make sure I ask the OB what the
feeding regime is at the hospital if they are premature.

As for a lactation consultant ......... I've been a nurse for 16 years and
never worked in a hospital that's had one. If you are lucky in the UK you
get a midwife who's made it her mission to promote breastfeeding!

Thanks to everyone for their advice, we actually start twin parentcraft
classes on Monday (we were amazed they had those!) so it should be
interesting what info they can give ;))) ..... Wonder if anybody taking the
classes has had twins - oh I'm such a cynic!

Ellie

(26 weeks and counting)

[Digital Larry]

Since there were so many good responses I'll just respond to my own post
here.

We were certainly warned about the possibility of nipple confusion by NICU
staff. They were supportive of BF attempts, but for it to have really
worked better DW would have had to have been there nearly constantly, and
definitely when they were trying to make the transition from the tube. We
live 15 miles from the hospital - I guess we could have rented a motel room
or apt. for that time to make it easier to get there. As it was we made
every effort to visit twice a day for the entire stretch - though sometimes
it was me just delivering some pumped milk.

I suppose that we could have insisted that the kids remain on tube feeding
until the point they were well enough to go home, but I'm not sure they
would have done that since they go out of their way to get them "nippling".
Also, the sight of the kids batting/pulling at the feeding tubes and tape
on their faces was so disturbing that I wanted to get them off THAT ASAP.
We did not influence what happened with that however. I did find the tube
more bothersome than all the wires they had attached to them.

Lactation consultant at hospital basically breezed in to maternity
recovery suite a couple times, gave a few general purpose pointers and gave
us some plastic bags that can be placed in the microwave to sterilize
bottle stuff. It just was not enough and not at the right time since we
were not even WITH the kids when she visited. She did not visit the NICU
while we were there... and since parents' presence in NICU is not scheduled
I do not see why she WOULD go there. It might have helped to have a very
specific focus at the point of transition as I said before.

I could tell that DW was getting discouraged after the kids came home -
she'd say things like "he doesn't seem to be in the mood to BF", though she
tried off and on maybe a dozen times with about zero success. Just about
anything I could have said at this point probably would have been the wrong
thing, because >I< was not personally experiencing the problem, nor did I
have any valid perspective other than "well I think BF is better". Also
one of the boys has pretty bad reflux, it seems a shame to take that
valuable liquid and watch it go flying all over the bib and blankets.
There again, every little bit helps though right? No simple answers.

I'm thinking in retrospect, what could/would we have done differently?
I really don't know. One poster had some other suggestions which I did not
fully understand, but those might be worth pursuing.

Thanks for the many thoughtful responses.

[David desJardins]

My twins didn't really nurse effectively for the first 4 to 6 months.
They were getting a combination of expressed breast milk and formula.
But eventually they got better at nursing and more interested in it, and
they ended up nursing until about 30 months.

I don't know if my wife would have stuck with the pumping if we hadn't
had full-time help. (Although "full-time" is only 40 hours/week, which
is still a pretty small fraction of the hours in the week!)

David desJardins