How do you decide?

[Andrea]

This is the first year that I have had the option of putting my girls in a
different class, since their preschool has three 3 year-old classes. The
director called me to ask if I want them in the same class and I told her I do.
At the end of last school year I asked Jordan & Madison's teachers how they did
in the same class....did they play with other children or stick together, etc.?
The teachers said they did very well in the same class and that they were
surprised that one of them was not more dominant than the other. They said that
with all the other twins they have had one twin was always more dominant than
the other. They both have different interests (Madison's favorite thing at
school is art and Jordan's is music) and when I dropped them off last year they
almost always went into 2 different directions. Jordan has been clinging to me
a lot lately too and I think it will help her to know that Madison in the room
with her.

So I'm pretty confident I made the right decision, but then I started thinking
about other factors that should be considered when they get older. I am going
to make the decision on a year by year basis, but I would like to hear how
those of you with twins in school have made your decisions over the years.

TIA,
Andrea
twin girls-Jordan & Madison
3 yrs. old

[H Schinske]

Andrea wrote:

>So I'm pretty confident I made the right decision, but then I started
>thinking
>about other factors that should be considered when they get older. I am going
>to make the decision on a year by year basis, but I would like to hear how
>those of you with twins in school have made your decisions over the years.

Together as long as possible, I vote, because dealing with two different
teachers is a lot of work (and if you volunteer in the classroom, you need only
go half as often! though I had a younger child and didn't volunteer until he
was in preschool). We went to two different classes in second grade, and this
year (fourth grade) one will be going to a magnet program in a different
school.

--Helen

[Julie Seely]

Andrea --

J&M are fraternal, right?

I have b/g twins, so the situation is perhaps a bit different, but I'm
with Helen -- don't separate them unless there's a compelling reason to
do so. C&E will be in first grade this year, and have been together
since they started two mornings/week of preschool at age 3. Their
preschool had just one class per age group, so there was no choice, but
the school left it up to us in kindergarten. In April, I met with their
kindergarten teacher to get her opinion on the subject, and she reported
that they did just fine in the same class (I was a bit concerned that
some of their habits from home -- interrupting each other to finish each
others' sentences -- carried over to school, but she told me they didn't
do that at school). She also noted that she had recommended that the
last set of twins she had be separated due to one being dominant, so I
knew that she would have felt comfortable making that recommendation had
it been her opinion in C&E's case. In their case, they are both
remarkably evenly matched in academic abilities, so there are no
unfavorable comparisons to be made.

In our particular case, the kids are in a fairly small school, with just
30 kids in their grade, divided into two classes. In the event that I
have a strong preference for one teacher over the other, I would hate to
have to choose which child gets which teacher. Also, if one teacher
assigns a lot of homework and the other doesn't, that would be difficult
at home. And as Helen points out, it's much easier to deal with one
teacher, and have the kids have the same homework, than it is to have
two teachers and two different assignments.

By the way -- if they switch schools and the new school tells you that
they have a policy of separating twins, and you feel that M&J should be
together, ask them then and there if you can please *see* their policy.
I'll bet they can't produce one!

Trust your instincts, though do ask their teacher for his/her
observations as well. My biggest reservation about them being in the
same class is that they are together 24/7 -- more than any married
couple I know -- and sometimes I wonder if it's too much. But both of
them, Chris, especially, spend time playing by themselves at home, so
they seem to be able to seek and find solitude when they feel the need
for it.

Julie
Mom to Chris & Erica, 07/97

Andrea wrote:
>
> This is the first year that I have had the option of putting my girls in a
> different class, since their preschool has three 3 year-old classes. The
> director called me to ask if I want them in the same class and I told her I do.
> At the end of last school year I asked Jordan & Madison's teachers how they did
> in the same class....did they play with other children or stick together, etc.?
> The teachers said they did very well in the same class and that they were
> surprised that one of them was not more dominant than the other. They said that
> with all the other twins they have had one twin was always more dominant than
> the other. They both have different interests (Madison's favorite thing at
> school is art and Jordan's is music) and when I dropped them off last year they
> almost always went into 2 different directions. Jordan has been clinging to me
> a lot lately too and I think it will help her to know that Madison in the room
> with her.
>
> So I'm pretty confident I made the right decision, but then I started thinking
> about other factors that should be considered when they get older. I am going
> to make the decision on a year by year basis, but I would like to hear how
> those of you with twins in school have made your decisions over the years.
>
> TIA,
> Andrea
> twin girls-Jordan & Madison
> 3 yrs. old

[Twins409]

I think you made the right decision, too. I have 6 year-old twin boys. They
were together for Pre-K and Kindergarten, and I was thinking that I wanted to
separate them for first grade. I wanted to do so mainly because their
Kindergarten teacher was constantly somparing them ("Did you know that one
reads better than the other?" etc.) It drove me crazy because I see them as
completely different people, and I hate it when people compare them like that.
I was thinking then that I would separate them, but everyone (teachers, people
at church who work at their school, etc.) recommended that I keep them
together. There also is one really good first grade teacher, and I did not
want one to get her and the otehr to not get her, so I jept them in the same
class this year for first grade. So far, so good.

My point is that I think it is a good idea to take it on a year by year basis.
Each circumstance is different. I am sure some twins work better together and
others work better apart. I love it that you are taking it one step at a time.
Way to go!

Tina
Mommy of Kyle and Joey - 4/9/97
Mommy of Kyle and Joey - 4/9/97

[Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)]

Chris was so quiet and timid keeping them together in Pre-K, and K was a
good thing for them. By the end of K the teacher (who I thought was
wonderful), said their is a lot of competition going on and I think maybe
separating them for the next year is a good idea. We did. The school put
them in classrooms side by side so their schedule was the same for lunch and
recess and they felt at least close. It was a tough call as Chris still was
very clingy and I had to walk him to class daily and watch him cry as I said
goodbye. But by the end of the year he was a different kid. Totally
confident, they had their own stories to tell so they felt much more
powerful and unique. Second grade we moved and the school put them in the
same class. I wasn't sure how it would work but then again, the teacher
made all the difference. She put them in separate work groups, kept them
working on separate projects and it seemed to work out. Now that they are
going into 3rd the competition is rampant BUT we love only one 3rd grade
teacher and they are both in her class. From my point of view as a parent
it is so much easier - same homework, they actually do remind each other of
short cuts to problems that they learned that the other might have
forgotten - and it works. I can be a room mom for one grade and conferences
are easy. I don't know what the year will end up like, we might separate
them next year but we shall see. They only have one more year (4th grade)
before they go to Jr. High (our middle schools start at 5th grade here
5-8), Then it's only a homeroom and they change classes just like in high
schools. So for the moment keeping them together might not be a bad thing.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95

"Twins409" > wrote in message
...
> I think you made the right decision, too. I have 6 year-old twin boys.
They
> were together for Pre-K and Kindergarten, and I was thinking that I wanted
to
> separate them for first grade. I wanted to do so mainly because their
> Kindergarten teacher was constantly somparing them ("Did you know that one
> reads better than the other?" etc.) It drove me crazy because I see them
as
> completely different people, and I hate it when people compare them like
that.
> I was thinking then that I would separate them, but everyone (teachers,
people
> at church who work at their school, etc.) recommended that I keep them
> together. There also is one really good first grade teacher, and I did
not
> want one to get her and the otehr to not get her, so I jept them in the
same
> class this year for first grade. So far, so good.
>
> My point is that I think it is a good idea to take it on a year by year
basis.
> Each circumstance is different. I am sure some twins work better
together and
> others work better apart. I love it that you are taking it one step at a
time.
> Way to go!
>
> Tina
> Mommy of Kyle and Joey - 4/9/97
> Mommy of Kyle and Joey - 4/9/97

[KimandJuan]

I am curious, several people have mentioned keeping the kids together because
they had a preference for one particular teacher. I wasn't aware that the
schools let you choose the teacher. I taught at a private school and parents
had no say in choosing the teacher, unless there was an extreme circumstance.
I wonder if you are allowed to choose because of the twins or if everyone can
choose.


~Kimberly
Mommy to Alexis Iliana 07/17/99 and
Emma Elidia & Aislyn Gabriela 10/01/02
come see us...
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aislynemma/

[Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)]

We can't really "pick" teachers but you can voice a strong preference for
the teacher you want your child to be taught by - at least in the last 3
schools we've been to. You can write or talk to the principal and tell them
"why" you want a particular teacher for your child. Does it mean you will
get them - no - just raises the chances of the pupil assignment and if the
reasons are rational - not some gibberish, two to one you'll get the teacher
of your choice. As a school secretary for the district my kids go to - even
my principal listens to the parents and we have reassigned kids accordingly.

Shirley

"KimandJuan" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am curious, several people have mentioned keeping the kids together
because
> they had a preference for one particular teacher. I wasn't aware that the
> schools let you choose the teacher. I taught at a private school and
parents
> had no say in choosing the teacher, unless there was an extreme
circumstance.
> I wonder if you are allowed to choose because of the twins or if everyone
can
> choose.
>
>
> ~Kimberly
> Mommy to Alexis Iliana 07/17/99 and
> Emma Elidia & Aislyn Gabriela 10/01/02
> come see us...
> http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aislynemma/

[H Schinske]

wrote:

>I am curious, several people have mentioned keeping the kids together because
>they had a preference for one particular teacher. I wasn't aware that the
>schools let you choose the teacher.

Ours does not guarantee anything but you are allowed to write and express a
preference. I think I've been told, whether officially or in gossip I no longer
remember, that they pay more attention to vetoes of one teacher whose style
isn't right for your kid, rather than insisting on one particularly popular
teacher (this only works if there are at least three choices, though).

--Helen

[Andrea]

>I wonder if you are allowed to choose because of the twins or if everyone can
>choose.

I have taught at 4 different public schools and at 3 of them they did not let
parents request teachers. The 4th school let parents request teachers, but did
not guarantee placement. Jordan and Madison's preschool is private and they
will accomodate requests if possible. I think it has a lot to do with the
principal, at least here in S. Carolina.

Andrea
twin girls-Madison & Jordan
3 yrs. old

[David desJardins]

Tina writes:
> I wanted to do so mainly because their Kindergarten teacher was
> constantly somparing them ("Did you know that one reads better than
> the other?" etc.) It drove me crazy because I see them as completely
> different people, and I hate it when people compare them like that.

I don't get it. Why does this bother you? My twins are completely
different people too, which is why they have differences in the first
place. It doesn't bother me to talk about those differences.

David desJardins

[multimom4]

I've gone into it in great detail previously but ... basically Connor
compares himself unfavorably against the others (esp. Hanna for whom
*everything* is easy -- rather Midas-like, whereas the boys have to work at,
say, handwriting). So he compares and then *totally* gives up. So he needs
to get away from her.

Plus they hang together waaaay too much in class and recess and basically
don't have *any* friends other than the other multiples we hang with. Plus
every teacher they've had has said I should separate them ... for varying
reasons -- distracting each other (both innocently and deliberately),
competing, acting as a unit, shutting other kids out, .............. so for
me a very clear and easy choice.

e.g. this week their swim classes ended with chasing games in the pool.
EHC chased no-one but each other. <sigh>

--Janet
Elliot, Hanna, Connor (10/21/96)
and Holly (4/4/01)

"Andrea" > wrote in message
...
> This is the first year that I have had the option of putting my girls in a
> different class, since their preschool has three 3 year-old classes. The
> director called me to ask if I want them in the same class and I told her
I do.
> At the end of last school year I asked Jordan & Madison's teachers how
they did
> in the same class....did they play with other children or stick together,
etc.?
> The teachers said they did very well in the same class and that they were
> surprised that one of them was not more dominant than the other. They said
that
> with all the other twins they have had one twin was always more dominant
than
> the other. They both have different interests (Madison's favorite thing at
> school is art and Jordan's is music) and when I dropped them off last year
they
> almost always went into 2 different directions. Jordan has been clinging
to me
> a lot lately too and I think it will help her to know that Madison in the
room
> with her.
>
> So I'm pretty confident I made the right decision, but then I started
thinking
> about other factors that should be considered when they get older. I am
going
> to make the decision on a year by year basis, but I would like to hear how
> those of you with twins in school have made your decisions over the years.
>
> TIA,
> Andrea
> twin girls-Jordan & Madison
> 3 yrs. old

[Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)]

It also depends upon the twin set. As Janet says hers are always at each
other even in class. Kathleen and Chris last year came home to tell us
about their day in class. The teacher had asked each child to clean their
desks. Kathleen (the teachers dream kid), said she didn't have to as her
desk was already neat, when I asked about Chris's desk (who sits in the
front of class because of eye site), she said "how should I know". I was
actually really glad to get the answer as it means that neither pay much
attention to the other one in class. On the playground I know that they
don't play together - Chris plays basketball with the older boys and
Kathleen hangs with her "gal pals." The only time I have ever heard
something about the playground was when Chris got threatened by a 4th grader
for accidentally pushing him while running. I imagine they keep eyes on
each other but don't play around. Again, it totally depends upon the kids.
As far as competition, our competition stays mainly in the house, except
that Kathleen was put on the A honor roll last year and Chris missed even
the A/B by one B (a really stupid system if you ask me for second graders).
He was mad because the A honor roll kids got to have breakfast with the
principal." It would have been an issue had he been in another class or
not.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95

"H Schinske" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
> >I don't get it. Why does this bother you? My twins are completely
> >different people too, which is why they have differences in the first
> >place. It doesn't bother me to talk about those differences.
>
> I think it's *needless* comparisons we're talking about. There is a
difference
> between noting that there are differences, and framing every comment about
> either twin IN TERMS OF their difference from the other. For instance,
there is
> no particular reason people can't say of one twin, "Gee, she's pretty
tall,
> isn't she?" without any reference to whether she is taller or shorter than
her
> sister.
>
> I would not like it if everything people said about me was phrased solely
in
> terms of how I differ from my husband, and vice versa. (I say my husband,
and
> not one of my siblings, because I think twin relationships are often quite
a
> bit like spousal ones in some ways.)
>
> --Helen

[David desJardins]

Helen writes:
> I think it's *needless* comparisons we're talking about. There is a
> difference between noting that there are differences, and framing
> every comment about either twin IN TERMS OF their difference from the
> other. For instance, there is no particular reason people can't say of
> one twin, "Gee, she's pretty tall, isn't she?" without any reference
> to whether she is taller or shorter than her sister.

Hmm. Adjectives like "tall" are always in comparison to something.
She's not tall compared to a building, but she's certainly tall compared
to a mushroom. What you really mean when you say she is "tall" is that
she is tall relative to other people of the same age, and gender, and
race, and socioeconomic status (all factors that tend to affect height).

If you're already comparing a child to other children of the same age,
and the child has a twin, it seems awfully normal to me to use the twin
as an obvious basis of comparison, because they are the same age, after
all. On lots of "developmental milestones", I really have no idea
whether my son is more or less advanced relative to other children of
the same age, because I don't see enough other children, nor do I know
their exact ages, so I can't draw any conclusions. But it's often
obvious when he's better at some things, and not so good at other
things, as his sister. It doesn't bother me to talk about that.

I guess, if my children were in a class with lots of other children of
very similar ages, it would seem more normal to compare them
individually with the class overall. But it still wouldn't *bother* me
when people point out comparisons between them (especially when they are
really obvious anyway, like that one reads better, or is taller, or
whatever). Maybe this is just something I'm not going to understand.

David desJardins

[H Schinske]

wrote:

>But it still wouldn't *bother* me
>when people point out comparisons between them (especially when they are
>really obvious anyway, like that one reads better, or is taller, or
>whatever). Maybe this is just something I'm not going to understand.

It's the leaping to conclusions that one of them is going to be PERMANENTLY
better at whatever it is that is really aggravating ("She's pretty good at
math, isn't she? Is she better than X?"), and the ranking of things that are
not significantly different and really oughtn't to be described in terms of
comparison. People tend to polarize my kids because their coloring is very
different, and think they must be total opposites when they are no such thing.

And really, most people aren't described in terms of "better" or "worse" in
every aspect of their lives. People who talk about me and my husband say things
like "Bob is a marvelous cook," or "Helen has such an interesting book
collection." They don't very often say "Bob cooks so much better than Helen,"
or "Helen takes so much more interest in books than Bob does." That would make
me sound like a lousy cook (which I'm not) and Bob sound next door to
illiterate (far from it, his current pile of reading ranges from Melville to
Langston Hughes).

I suspect the reason you don't understand it is that you don't understand why
people would make comparisons that are not meaningful. It's not the meaningful
ones that I object to.

I do go out of my way to phrase explanations to people in terms of process and
degree of certainty. "Yes, Sophia tends to run about an inch taller than Emily.
Once in while Emily has a growth spurt and they're about the same for a while,
but the difference has been consistent enough that I think Sophia will be an
inch or two the taller when they get to be adults. I'm sure they'll both be
taller than I am, they're built more like their dad."

--Helen

[H Schinske]

>> ("She's pretty good at math, isn't she? Is she better than X?"), and
>> the ranking of things that are not significantly different and really
>> oughtn't to be described in terms of comparison.
>
>But why do you say "ought not"? What difference does it make? You've
>said it's unnecessary, but you haven't said why it would be bad, or
>harmful, or undesirable.

You think it could possibly be *good* for kids to hear "You're prettier than
your sister," "You're smarter than your sister," "You're nicer than your
sister," "You're more musical than your sister," "You're more athletic than
your sister," "You work harder than your sister," "You're more polite than your
sister," yada yada yada?
You *really* don't see how it's better to hear things like "You look very
pretty," "What a nice thing to say," "You sang very well," "You really improved
your time on the mile," "You worked very hard on this," "What nice manners you
have!"?

--Helen

[Kender]

My girls did well together in Kindergarten. One of the main reasons we
separated them for 1st grade is a strange one. I am tired of shared
playdates and invitations! The kids in their class felt if they invited one
over for a playdate then they had to invite the other one as well. The
competition and stress of two girls sharing one friend was huge. This year
with them being in separate 1st grade classes I am hoping this trend will
die out. I think having their own friends and space outside of school will
be a big benefit.
--
Erin
Morgan and Megan 2/15/97
Evan 5/14/00

"Andrea" > wrote in message
...
> This is the first year that I have had the option of putting my girls in a
> different class, since their preschool has three 3 year-old classes. The
> director called me to ask if I want them in the same class and I told her
I do.
> At the end of last school year I asked Jordan & Madison's teachers how
they did
> in the same class....did they play with other children or stick together,
etc.?
> The teachers said they did very well in the same class and that they were
> surprised that one of them was not more dominant than the other. They said
that
> with all the other twins they have had one twin was always more dominant
than
> the other. They both have different interests (Madison's favorite thing at
> school is art and Jordan's is music) and when I dropped them off last year
they
> almost always went into 2 different directions. Jordan has been clinging
to me
> a lot lately too and I think it will help her to know that Madison in the
room
> with her.
>
> So I'm pretty confident I made the right decision, but then I started
thinking
> about other factors that should be considered when they get older. I am
going
> to make the decision on a year by year basis, but I would like to hear how
> those of you with twins in school have made your decisions over the years.
>
> TIA,
> Andrea
> twin girls-Jordan & Madison
> 3 yrs. old

[David desJardins]

Helen writes:
> You think it could possibly be *good* for kids to hear "You're
> prettier than your sister," "You're smarter than your sister," "You're
> nicer than your sister," "You're more musical than your sister,"
> "You're more athletic than your sister," "You work harder than your
> sister," "You're more polite than your sister," yada yada yada?

Hey, none of these are like the previous examples. Before, your example
of a "needless comparison" was "She's taller than her sister." I don't
see how *that* is anything more than a simple statement of fact. She
can obviously already see that she's taller than her sister. How can it
do any harm to say it?

Similarly, when I say "Sarah's pronunciation is clearer than Louis's,"
or, "Sarah likes using the potty but Louis doesn't," or, "Louis likes to
type on the keyboard, but Sarah doesn't," these are just simple
statements of fact.

But saying, "She's prettier than her sister," is a completely different
sort of thing. So are "smarter", "nicer", "more musical", etc. Those
are value judgments, and totally subjective anyway. What you're really
saying is, "I like your appearance better than your sister's
appearance." And sure, I agree that *that* (in fact, the whole idea of
even deciding whose appearance you like better, much less talking about
it) is not the sort of way I would expect a parent to behave.

David desJardins

[H Schinske]

wrote:

>Hey, none of these are like the previous examples. Before, your example
>of a "needless comparison" was "She's taller than her sister." I don't
>see how *that* is anything more than a simple statement of fact. She
>can obviously already see that she's taller than her sister. How can it
>do any harm to say it?

That kind of comparison doesn't do any harm *now and then*. But when every
single aspect of how people describe you is *constantly* being put in terms of
how you compare to your sister, THAT gets old.
Combine with the fact that people *also* occasionally use more hurtful
comparisons, and yes, any comparisons do get to be a sore spot.

I apologize if my strong feelings have gotten in the way of my expressing
myself more clearly, particularly if they've sounded ill-tempered (I was
ill-tempered, but not really at you). I actually admire your logical view and
wish more people held it.

--Helen

[David desJardins]

Helen writes:
> I apologize if my strong feelings have gotten in the way of my
> expressing myself more clearly, particularly if they've sounded
> ill-tempered (I was ill-tempered, but not really at you).

Not at all. Particularly with people with older multiples, it's really
helpful to hear about issues people have that I might run into in the
future.

David desJardins

[Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)]

Something that I have found is that they need to know they have strong
points in different things. Whether they are in the same class or not
believe me, they know. They hear each other read, do math or just
question/answer things. It is sooo important to stress that even though
they are twins, they are very different and have different talents. One may
be better at math or reading, but the other might be better at drawing. My
DS is a fantastic artist, it shows in everything that he does, he has a
perceptive eye that can distinguish symmetry, lines, distance, etc. His
sister doesn't have any of those skills and does talk about how Chris is
better at drawing. Chris's art teacher is the same one Kathleen has and he
works with all kids, but has said many times how talented Chris is, of
course he doesn't say that Kathleen isn't but it's there just by the grades
he gets. She is a wonderful Irish Dancer, passionate, dedicated and very
artistic in her presentation. Something that even Chris says he of course
could never achieve. I try to stress over and over, just as everyone has a
burden to carry in life (loss of parents, disease or other things - in our
house Chris has seizures and medicine and tests that he has to live with),
each one of us also has a talent that grows and needs to be fed. They will
be compared all of their lives, maybe not directly but they compare each
other - especially as they get older, and you would be lying if you told
both they were equal in everything. It's more truthful to let them know how
they are talented and what they seem to excel in. BTW, Kathleen is a
straight A student (Chris A/B). She retains some things quicker and school
work comes easier to her than him. They see that too, one seems to have to
study more than the other. Chris write better, I could go on and on. But
it will start to grow and I think especially with multiples you have to be
prepared to be honest but supportive.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95

"David desJardins" > wrote in message
...
> Helen writes:
> > I apologize if my strong feelings have gotten in the way of my
> > expressing myself more clearly, particularly if they've sounded
> > ill-tempered (I was ill-tempered, but not really at you).
>
> Not at all. Particularly with people with older multiples, it's really
> helpful to hear about issues people have that I might run into in the
> future.
>
> David desJardins

[Cindy Wells]

"Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-)" wrote:
>
> Something that I have found is that they need to know they have strong
> points in different things. Whether they are in the same class or not
> believe me, they know. They hear each other read, do math or just
> question/answer things. It is sooo important to stress that even though
> they are twins, they are very different and have different talents. One may
> be better at math or reading, but the other might be better at drawing. My
> DS is a fantastic artist, it shows in everything that he does, he has a
> perceptive eye that can distinguish symmetry, lines, distance, etc. His
> sister doesn't have any of those skills and does talk about how Chris is
> better at drawing. Chris's art teacher is the same one Kathleen has and he
> works with all kids, but has said many times how talented Chris is, of
> course he doesn't say that Kathleen isn't but it's there just by the grades
> he gets. She is a wonderful Irish Dancer, passionate, dedicated and very
> artistic in her presentation. Something that even Chris says he of course
> could never achieve. I try to stress over and over, just as everyone has a
> burden to carry in life (loss of parents, disease or other things - in our
> house Chris has seizures and medicine and tests that he has to live with),
> each one of us also has a talent that grows and needs to be fed. They will
> be compared all of their lives, maybe not directly but they compare each
> other - especially as they get older, and you would be lying if you told
> both they were equal in everything. It's more truthful to let them know how
> they are talented and what they seem to excel in. BTW, Kathleen is a
> straight A student (Chris A/B). She retains some things quicker and school
> work comes easier to her than him. They see that too, one seems to have to
> study more than the other. Chris write better, I could go on and on. But
> it will start to grow and I think especially with multiples you have to be
> prepared to be honest but supportive.
>
> Shirley
> Chris and Kathleen 1/95


Each child's strong points should be noted and encouraged - as they
need it. However, I would advise caution on any scale that starts them
competing to excell at the same things (or stop excelling so as to not
be different). I've unfortunately met some multiples who had learned
either side of these abnormal attitudes.

That is why I dislike seeing a statement of a teacher comparing two
students who share a last name. In the school situation, it's more
informative for the parents to know if the student(s) abilities are
consistently improving over time compared to that child's starting
point. (Comparison to an average for the age is useful for determining
special needs or assistance - whether it be tutoring to bring up to the
norm or additional activities to avoid boredom.)

For something like reading skills, comparing siblings can lead to
odd anomalies in evaluating their skills. I'm a faster reader than
my sister and this sometimes made me seem like a better reader. However
throughout school we were both considered advanced compared to our
age-groups averages. The major difference was that I completed more
questions on the tests - no significant differences in comprehension
for the material we both completed.

Cindy Wells
(who excelled in the humanities and did reasonably well in math and
science; both of my siblings were better with the math and science.
However when we went off to our various college experiences, I chose
to major in chemistry at a school with a good liberal arts program
available for my electives (coursework outside of the major was
required). My sister went to an engineering college where there were
fewer humanities requirements. After those programs we both went on
to do grad work in our respective majors.)

[Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)]

I agree about the teachers comparing the child but the kids do this all on
their own. They do see the other excel in an area that they might be
struggling in or they are very aware of the other child coming home with A's
or on the honor roll with the same curriculum - you don't have to split the
twins not to have the same courses for the same grades. The teachers pretty
much have a set plan daily witch in 3rd grade is the same for each. Granted
their approach to teaching varies but the A's and B's come from the same
stuff. It's very tough to curtail the comparison - again, not necessarily
the spoken word but unspoken. In our situation the teachers don't (even in
the same class), we certainly don't compare them but they compare each
other.

Shirley

">
>
> >
> That is why I dislike seeing a statement of a teacher comparing two
> students who share a last name. In the school situation, it's more
> informative for the parents to know if the student(s) abilities are
> consistently improving over time compared to that child's starting
> point. (Comparison to an average for the age is useful for determining
> special needs or assistance - whether it be tutoring to bring up to the
> norm or additional activities to avoid boredom.)
>
> For something like reading skills, comparing siblings can lead to
> odd anomalies in evaluating their skills. I'm a faster reader than
> my sister and this sometimes made me seem like a better reader. However
> throughout school we were both considered advanced compared to our
> age-groups averages. The major difference was that I completed more
> questions on the tests - no significant differences in comprehension
> for the material we both completed.
>
> Cindy Wells
> (who excelled in the humanities and did reasonably well in math and
> science; both of my siblings were better with the math and science.
> However when we went off to our various college experiences, I chose
> to major in chemistry at a school with a good liberal arts program
> available for my electives (coursework outside of the major was
> required). My sister went to an engineering college where there were
> fewer humanities requirements. After those programs we both went on
> to do grad work in our respective majors.)

[Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)]

First off It sounds like anyone who would compare children of any age group
to say "why aren't you more like" is just plain bad parenting IMHO. I
don't care if they are minutes apart or years. Again, luckily we've never
had teachers compare the two even in the same class. Maybe good teachers, I
don't know, but neither kid cares in that sense. What they care about is
just being behind the other one in some way and that is something you can't
hide - unless you lie. Both my kids get a trip out of seeing how big/tall
or how much they each weigh. Yes, they get annoyed when one is above the
other but the doctor keeps telling Kathleen she doesn't want to be 6'3"
which is what Chris (at this rate of growth and shoe size) should be. She
seems to think this is ok. I think at 8.5 they can handle a lot more and
adjust better than children of 5. At 5 these things were issues and took a
lot of coddling to get them through the "bigger, heavier, stronger" issues
including loosing teeth. One lost before the other - how do you control
that or protect the other from the pain of being "behind." There really are
some things that all ages just must come to terms with without being mean or
nasty (which is what I think the "why aren't you" quote is).

Shirley

"Cindy Wells" > wrote in message
...
> "Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-)" wrote:
> >
> > I agree about the teachers comparing the child but the kids do this all
on
> > their own. They do see the other excel in an area that they might be
> > struggling in or they are very aware of the other child coming home with
A's
> > or on the honor roll with the same curriculum - you don't have to split
the
> > twins not to have the same courses for the same grades. The teachers
pretty
> > much have a set plan daily witch in 3rd grade is the same for each.
Granted
> > their approach to teaching varies but the A's and B's come from the same
> > stuff. It's very tough to curtail the comparison - again, not
necessarily
> > the spoken word but unspoken. In our situation the teachers don't (even
in
> > the same class), we certainly don't compare them but they compare each
> > other.
> >
> > Shirley
> >
>
> I'm aware of that. Most siblings will do that. (My dad is a year
> younger than his brother but they had several classes together in
> high school. Uncle John apparently was very annoyed by dad's better
> grades in the science class.) However, I've seen the misuse of the
> comparisons. Variously - expectations of equal achievements (to the
> point of making every assignment a competition), "why can't you be more
> like your sibling" applied to all activities/subjects, placing twins
> in the same class when not appropriate academically so that one fails
> or is bored (and then gets in trouble for daydreaming or whatever),
> and the like. For most families, these types of excessive comparisons
> don't become a factor but you do have to watch out that no one (the
> children, parents and their teachers) obsesses about the issues.
>
> Similarly, at the doctor's office a height and weight comparison between
> multiples is not important unless it indicates a health problem
> developing. In that case the comparison to the normal growth charts
> is still more useful (obesity or failure to thrive issues).
>
> Cindy Wells
> (In one case, expectations of equal achievement was met by both children
> aiming at C's and D's. (How do I know they expected equal grades? They
> teased my sister because she'd gotten second honors (A/Bs) and I'd
> gotten first honors. We shut them down fast with a "talk to us when you
> make any honor role".))

[Cindy Wells]

"Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-)" wrote:
>
> First off It sounds like anyone who would compare children of any age group
> to say "why aren't you more like" is just plain bad parenting IMHO. I
> don't care if they are minutes apart or years. Again, luckily we've never
> had teachers compare the two even in the same class. Maybe good teachers, I
> don't know, but neither kid cares in that sense. What they care about is
> just being behind the other one in some way and that is something you can't
> hide - unless you lie. Both my kids get a trip out of seeing how big/tall
> or how much they each weigh. Yes, they get annoyed when one is above the
> other but the doctor keeps telling Kathleen she doesn't want to be 6'3"
> which is what Chris (at this rate of growth and shoe size) should be. She
> seems to think this is ok. I think at 8.5 they can handle a lot more and
> adjust better than children of 5. At 5 these things were issues and took a
> lot of coddling to get them through the "bigger, heavier, stronger" issues
> including loosing teeth. One lost before the other - how do you control
> that or protect the other from the pain of being "behind." There really are
> some things that all ages just must come to terms with without being mean or
> nasty (which is what I think the "why aren't you" quote is).
>
> Shirley
>

You really can't but you do the coddle/comfort routine until they
get old enough to understand. Your children seem rather good at
settling in to that understanding. My parents similarly treated it
calmly until we did too (mom remembers it starting as soon as one of
us crawled); we outgrew it before kindergarten but hit teachers and
other students making the dumb comparisons (and like all bullying, it
needed special handling). It's just that I've seen the constant
competing/comparing between siblings continued at the
Jr. High, high school and college levels. (The college situation was
one always competing while the other ignored the issue.)

When the classmates started teasing because one was in school and the
other is out sick, it is annoying. It's still the type of bullying that
can result in poor coping skills such as the obsession with being the
same; this happens more when combined with bad teachers. I will admit
the schools in general are getting better at handling the response
to all teasing.

Cindy Wells
(there are good and bad ways to handle comparisons; the majority of
parents and teachers probably don't have a problem finding the good
ways. I've just met enough of the exceptions to be very wary of the
issue with school. Since the odds of the other classmates making
comparisons and dumb comments are high, any comparison a teacher might
say can end up being badly misinterpreted by the child already
frustrated by other comments.)

[Cindy Wells]

"Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-)" wrote:
>
> I guess I'm very sensitive to it as my SIL is so incredibly jealous of my DH
> that it's ridiculous, considering that they are in their 50's and should get
> beyond it - but she still is suffering from "you were smarter and I wasn't."
> She has 2 Master's in totally different fields, holds a great job and is
> 'successful' (whatever that means). My DH did indeed get a graduate degree
> but had to change careers as his went defunct with the economy. I can't
> believe she still harbors that old "sibling rivalry" something my in-laws
> were very good at flaming to death - the "why aren't you like your brother
> routine". I do understand that it sometimes never goes away - as the
> above - we only talk when necessary and it always comes out. Anyhow, I am
> glad that my kids go with the flow.
>
> Shirley


There's nothing like seeing the other mistakes to help you avoid those
(and find new ones) in parenting. All you can do is stay alert and
help your children resolve the issues in beneficial ways as they
come up (or recur).

Cindy Wells
(My mom was luckier - a lot of the sibling issues generated
by her mother's behavior ended up being things mom and her sister
discussed and resolved at summer camp (they went to the same camp
exactly once because of their age differences). Despite being in
different areas of the camp, they got together at one point and
talked things out. The discussion resulted in them both realizing
their mother made mistakes that hurt their relationship so they needed
to start over with each other.)