(IL.) DCFS probes charges of cover-up at Maryville [Archive]

Dan Sullivan

August 18th 03, 02:23 PM

"bobb" > wrote in message
...
>
> "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > bobb wrote:
> > >
> > > It's been a long time coming.. but if anyone had listened to the kids
> who
> > > passed through Maryville there would have been no surprises.
> > >
> > > I do have to wonder how come the word of a child who claims sexual,
> physical
> > > abuse, or rape in the outside word is not questioned, yet the word of
a
> > > child who claims mistreatment in a place such as Maryville is not
heard?
> > >
> > > Do people have selective hearing? You bet they do!
> > >
> > > bobb
> > ----------------------
> > No, Dummy.
> > Children who are not abused have no motive to fabricate stories
> > about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be believed.
> >
> > Children who already WERE abused and are in an institution have
> > nothing else to do BUT speak of their abuse. That's to be expected.
> > Steve
>
> Apparently you are not aware of the number of children who have, in fact,
> killed their parents because they didn't like house-hold rules, or wanted
> something the parents wouldn't buy them. One boy in a neighboring
community
> killed his father just so he could drive dad's corvette to the prom.You
must
> also be unawre of kids to falsey accused their parents of some wrong-doing
> merely to get even. A false accusation should not be surprising, nor
should
> the fact that kids do fabricate stories.

In Steve's world children never lie or make up stories.

Children only and always speak the truth.

It's the adults that lie.

You wonder where they learned it.

Best, Dan

bobb

August 18th 03, 03:53 PM

"R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
...
> bobb wrote:
> >
> > It's been a long time coming.. but if anyone had listened to the kids
who
> > passed through Maryville there would have been no surprises.
> >
> > I do have to wonder how come the word of a child who claims sexual,
physical
> > abuse, or rape in the outside word is not questioned, yet the word of a
> > child who claims mistreatment in a place such as Maryville is not heard?
> >
> > Do people have selective hearing? You bet they do!
> >
> > bobb
> ----------------------
> No, Dummy.
> Children who are not abused have no motive to fabricate stories
> about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be believed.
>
> Children who already WERE abused and are in an institution have
> nothing else to do BUT speak of their abuse. That's to be expected.
> Steve

Apparently you are not aware of the number of children who have, in fact,
killed their parents because they didn't like house-hold rules, or wanted
something the parents wouldn't buy them. One boy in a neighboring community
killed his father just so he could drive dad's corvette to the prom.You must
also be unawre of kids to falsey accused their parents of some wrong-doing
merely to get even. A false accusation should not be surprising, nor should
the fact that kids do fabricate stories.

bobb

R. Steve Walz

August 19th 03, 03:16 AM

bobb wrote:
>
> "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
>
> > No, Dummy.
> > Children who are not abused have no motive to fabricate stories
> > about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be believed.
> >
> > Children who already WERE abused and are in an institution have
> > nothing else to do BUT speak of their abuse. That's to be expected.
> > Steve
>
> Apparently you are not aware of the number of children who have, in fact,
> killed their parents because they didn't like house-hold rules, or wanted
> something the parents wouldn't buy them.
------------
Garbage. MUCH more abuse prior to that!! Sounds exactly like an
abuser minimization!

> One boy in a neighboring community
> killed his father just so he could drive dad's corvette to the prom.
-----------------
Kids who do this were abused for a VERY long time before that.

You must
> also be unawre of kids to falsey accused their parents of some wrong-doing
> merely to get even.
------------------
If their parents behave as their friends, then they won't want to
GET EVEN, now, will they?!! You ****ing dumb-ass.

> A false accusation should not be surprising, nor should
> the fact that kids do fabricate stories.
----------------
****ing liar, that's the same **** lies parents told before child
abuse laws investigated them and discovered their horrible abuses.
Steve

R. Steve Walz

August 19th 03, 03:17 AM

Dan Sullivan wrote:
>
> "bobb" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > bobb wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's been a long time coming.. but if anyone had listened to the kids
> > who
> > > > passed through Maryville there would have been no surprises.
> > > >
> > > > I do have to wonder how come the word of a child who claims sexual,
> > physical
> > > > abuse, or rape in the outside word is not questioned, yet the word of
> a
> > > > child who claims mistreatment in a place such as Maryville is not
> heard?
> > > >
> > > > Do people have selective hearing? You bet they do!
> > > >
> > > > bobb
> > > ----------------------
> > > No, Dummy.
> > > Children who are not abused have no motive to fabricate stories
> > > about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be believed.
> > >
> > > Children who already WERE abused and are in an institution have
> > > nothing else to do BUT speak of their abuse. That's to be expected.
> > > Steve
> >
> > Apparently you are not aware of the number of children who have, in fact,
> > killed their parents because they didn't like house-hold rules, or wanted
> > something the parents wouldn't buy them. One boy in a neighboring
> community
> > killed his father just so he could drive dad's corvette to the prom.You
> must
> > also be unawre of kids to falsey accused their parents of some wrong-doing
> > merely to get even. A false accusation should not be surprising, nor
> should
> > the fact that kids do fabricate stories.
>
> In Steve's world children never lie or make up stories.
---------------
Kids who feel they HAVE to make up stories DESERVE protection.

> Children only and always speak the truth.
>
> It's the adults that lie.
>
> You wonder where they learned it.
>
> Best, Dan
-----------------
The weak must be protected from the strong.
Steve

Dan Sullivan

August 19th 03, 04:57 AM

"R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > bobb wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It's been a long time coming.. but if anyone had listened to the
kids
> > who
> > > > passed through Maryville there would have been no surprises.
> > > >
> > > > I do have to wonder how come the word of a child who claims sexual,
> > physical
> > > > abuse, or rape in the outside word is not questioned, yet the word
of a
> > > > child who claims mistreatment in a place such as Maryville is not
heard?
> > > >
> > > > Do people have selective hearing? You bet they do!
> > > >
> > > > bobb
> > > ----------------------
> > > No, Dummy.
> > > Children who are not abused have no motive to fabricate stories
> > > about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be believed.
> >
> > If you say your daddy (soon to be ex-husband) touched you on your butt
I'll
> > buy you a new dress.
> ----------------------------
> If they love their father, they won't, if they don't then he deserves
> it, even if false.

Who wouldn't agree with you, Steve?

> > > Children who already WERE abused and are in an institution have
> > > nothing else to do BUT speak of their abuse. That's to be expected.
> >
> > A friend of mine's daughter was in an alcohol rehab program when she was
> > twelve.
> >
> > On her last day there in a group session my friend's daughter said she
> > believed that everyone was abused.
> ----------------------------
> They are, partly parents, partly society, partly life, it's all a
> matter of degree. And in a western family with authoritarian child-
> raising, it's inevitable.
>
>
> > This statement prompted a report to the CPS hotline.
> --------------------
> Good.
>
>
> > His daughter thought she remembered her father touching her on her chest
on
> > her seventh birthday.
> ----------------------
> Maybe she did. It's not YOURS to say.

She also thought her father brought her naked to school and beat her with
lead pipes.

The school administration had known about the contentious divorce and they
told CPS that they didn't see any inappropriate behavior on the part of the
father.

And there were no recollection of injuries to the girl by the school nurse
or gym coach.

> > CPS wrote up her story as if she told it to three people.
> -------------------------
> Perhaps she did.
>
> > Her counselor, the person who ran the group sessions, and the person who
> > reported the allegation to CPS.
> ----------------
> That adds up to three to me.
>
> > Would you be surprised to know that they were all the same person?
> ----------------------
> Doesn't matter.

Why not?

> > IOW there wasn't a BIT of credible evidence that the father had done
> > anything to his daughter.
> --------------
> So YOU say.
> Except she said so... classic.

What's classic about it?

> Abusers do things in private.

So do non-abusers.

> If you don't want to be called one, be nice to your child.

CALLED ONE???

You said kids didn't lie about abuse, "Children who are not abused have no
motive to fabricate stories about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be
believed."

and now you say they might lie about it because of their perception of
what's nice and what isn't!

> If you're a good friend to them they won't want to hurt you.

But they have two parents and one parent may have more control or influence
over them than the other.

In fact that's usually the case.

> If they do want to hurt you, it's BECAUSE YOU HURT THEM,

You said a child could call their parent an abuser if they felt their parent
wasn't nice to them.

> YOU ASSHOLE!

I win.

Dan

bobb

August 19th 03, 05:23 PM

"Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > bobb wrote:
> > >
> > > It's been a long time coming.. but if anyone had listened to the kids
> who
> > > passed through Maryville there would have been no surprises.
> > >
> > > I do have to wonder how come the word of a child who claims sexual,
> physical
> > > abuse, or rape in the outside word is not questioned, yet the word of
a
> > > child who claims mistreatment in a place such as Maryville is not
heard?
> > >
> > > Do people have selective hearing? You bet they do!
> > >
> > > bobb
> > ----------------------
> > No, Dummy.
> > Children who are not abused have no motive to fabricate stories
> > about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be believed.
>
> If you say your daddy (soon to be ex-husband) touched you on your butt
I'll
> buy you a new dress.
>
> If you don't say that mommy's new boyfriend touched you I won't pick you
up
> anymore.
>
> > Children who already WERE abused and are in an institution have
> > nothing else to do BUT speak of their abuse. That's to be expected.
>
> A friend of mine's daughter was in an alcohol rehab program when she was
> twelve.
>
> On her last day there in a group session my friend's daughter said she
> believed that everyone was abused.
>
> This statement prompted a report to the CPS hotline.
>
> His daughter thought she remembered her father touching her on her chest
on
> her seventh birthday.
>
> CPS wrote up her story as if she told it to three people.
>
> Her counselor, the person who ran the group sessions, and the person who
> reported the allegation to CPS.
>
> Would you be surprised to know that they were all the same person?
>
> When he got to his Fair Hearing (it took about three years) CPS produced
no
> witnesses, no counselor, no daughter, and no mother.
>
> Not even the caseworker.
>
> All they did was submit the case record into evidence.
>
> According to the case record at the start of the investigation started his
> ex-wife was questioned by CPS.
>
> They asked if she had known all along about the supposed molestation on
her
> daughter's birthday.
>
> Thinking she could get her ex-husband in trouble she said, "yes."
>
> Then CPS asked why she didn't report the allegation five years earlier and
> stop the visitation between the father and her daughter.
>
> OOOPS!!! CPS founded the mother for neglect.
>
> And after the father finished his statements at the Fair Hearing the Judge
> reversed CPS' finding because it was all smoke and mirrors.
>
> IOW there wasn't a BIT of credible evidence that the father had done
> anything to his daughter.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
I could even bring myself to reply to R. Steve, Dan, but I do appreciate
that you did.

bobb

Dan Sullivan

August 19th 03, 05:51 PM

"bobb" > wrote in message
et...
> >
> I could even bring myself to reply to R. Steve, Dan, but I do appreciate
> that you did.

I think you meant, "couldn't."

And I answer Steve to get the word out AND to demonstrate that Steve doesn't
know spit about CPS.

Best, Dan

bobb

August 19th 03, 06:08 PM

"toto" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 07:53:14 -0700, "bobb" >
> wrote:
>
> >Apparently you are not aware of the number of children who have, in fact,
> >killed their parents because they didn't like house-hold rules, or wanted
> >something the parents wouldn't buy them. One boy in a neighboring
community
> >killed his father just so he could drive dad's corvette to the prom.You
must
> >also be unawre of kids to falsey accused their parents of some
wrong-doing
> >merely to get even. A false accusation should not be surprising, nor
should
> >the fact that kids do fabricate stories.
> >
> >bobb
>
> Most children who kill their parents do it because they were badly
> abused, just as most wives who kill husbands are battered spouses.
>
> http://www.nospank.net/n-i67.htm
>
> ::There is no doubt that Gregory Scruggs Jr. was abused by his
> ::father, Judge Janet Burney told a packed courtroom yesterday.
> ::
> ::"Blacked eyes, scars and bruises," she said, "should never be
> ::part of parental discipline."
> ::
> ::But the Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court judge still found the
> ::13-year-old boy delinquent by virtue of voluntary manslaughter
> ::in the shooting death of his father in June.
> ::
> ::The abuse, she told Gregory, did not justify the killing - though
> ::she made it clear that she did not consider him a lost cause.
>
> The FBI statistics, for 1998, showed about 100 killings of
> parents by children under 18. About 70 percent of the parricide
> cases involve boys who kill their fathers in response to some
> type of abuse, Mones said. "Most of these kids don't have the
> same profile as kids who kill strangers," he said. "They tend to
> have average to above-average intelligence. They're polite,
> they obey adults. They generally don't have a history of acting
> violently at all."
>
> The surface reasons are not always the underlying reasons
> for the actions and I believe that even in that 30% where the
> FBI does not attribute the parricide to abuse, it is pretty likely
> to be under the surface if the cases were to be probed.
>
> Boys won't tell about some things even after they take actions
> that end the life of an abuser. In particular boys don't tell about
> sexual abuses.
>
> Many of the false allegations seem to take place in the context
> of a bitter divorces and custody battles and are not initiated by
> the children, but by one parent against the other. Children
> (especially young ones) will often back up a parent because
> they are confused about the reality of what is happening.
>
>
> --
> Dorothy
>
> There is no sound, no cry in all the world
> that can be heard unless someone listens ..
> Outer Limits

I think I may have agreed with you a number of years ago but times have
changed a bit. Kids are venting there anger, anger derived from being
denied materialistics... not that they were abused either physically or
sexually.

Kids of today seem caught up in image more than anything else. I think is
generally reflected even in divorice cases.... they tend to side with the
parent who has most money, gifts, and fun times... and rebell against the
ruling parent.

The kids have also become more cunning. They learn how to use the law in
their favor... particularly false allegations... to get their way.

I can't help but feel that the errosion of parent rights has a lot to do
with the attitudes of kids today.

bobb

..

..

bobb

August 20th 03, 03:48 AM

"Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "bobb" > wrote in message
> et...
> > >
> > I could even bring myself to reply to R. Steve, Dan, but I do appreciate
> > that you did.
>
> I think you meant, "couldn't."
>
> And I answer Steve to get the word out AND to demonstrate that Steve
doesn't
> know spit about CPS.
>
> Best, Dan
>
>
>
Thanks... yep... I meant 'couldn't' and I don't think you meant 'spit'
either! : - )

bobb

bobb

August 20th 03, 02:18 PM

"toto" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:08:03 -0700, "bobb" >
> wrote:
>
> >I think I may have agreed with you a number of years ago but times have
> >changed a bit. Kids are venting there anger, anger derived from being
> >denied materialistics... not that they were abused either physically or
> >sexually.
> >
> >Kids of today seem caught up in image more than anything else. I think
is
> >generally reflected even in divorice cases.... they tend to side with the
> >parent who has most money, gifts, and fun times... and rebell against the
> >ruling parent.
> >
> >The kids have also become more cunning. They learn how to use the law in
> >their favor... particularly false allegations... to get their way.
> >
> >I can't help but feel that the errosion of parent rights has a lot to do
> >with the attitudes of kids today.
> >
> >bobb
>
> Children who are taught only to value the material are being neglected
> and not getting the attention they need in the first place.

If it were the parents teaching such values I would certainly agree. I,
for one, downplay the material stuff but I haven't found a way to over-come
what might be called peer preasure. The first words out of a kids mouth is
'how much did it cost'. I was the worse person around when I wouldn't give
into pagers, cell phones, or the expensive clothes.

Now, many years later the kids are a bit more frugal. Of course, they are
spending their own many now.

>
> I don't believe that children who are loved and paid attention to are
> making up stories like the ones you mention. In a divorce, when a
> child is being used as a pawn, it is abusive. No matter what the
> status of the relationship, both parents are still the child's parents
> and they have to come up with a parenting plan that both agree on.

Huge problem... and always well be.

> When they instead try to use the child as a weapon between them,
> then it is no wonder that the children do whatever they can to get
> whatever they can. Of course, material *stuff* doesn't make up for
> the love they have been denied.

Love comes in many different flavors... I'm not sure kids really understand
the affection parents have for them. We live in a time of immediate
gratification and that's what many kids see as more important. At one time
my kids would've been eager to tell you how unfair I was. Today they see
things much differently, thank goodness.

bobb

>
>
> --
> Dorothy
>
> There is no sound, no cry in all the world
> that can be heard unless someone listens ..
> Outer Limits

Dan Sullivan

August 20th 03, 02:57 PM

"bobb" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "toto" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:08:03 -0700, "bobb" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I think I may have agreed with you a number of years ago but times have
> > >changed a bit. Kids are venting there anger, anger derived from being
> > >denied materialistics... not that they were abused either physically or
> > >sexually.
> > >
> > >Kids of today seem caught up in image more than anything else. I think
> is
> > >generally reflected even in divorice cases.... they tend to side with
the
> > >parent who has most money, gifts, and fun times... and rebell against
the
> > >ruling parent.
> > >
> > >The kids have also become more cunning. They learn how to use the law
in
> > >their favor... particularly false allegations... to get their way.
> > >
> > >I can't help but feel that the errosion of parent rights has a lot to
do
> > >with the attitudes of kids today.
> > >
> > >bobb
> >
> > Children who are taught only to value the material are being neglected
> > and not getting the attention they need in the first place.
>
> If it were the parents teaching such values I would certainly agree. I,
> for one, downplay the material stuff but I haven't found a way to
over-come
> what might be called peer preasure. The first words out of a kids mouth
is
> 'how much did it cost'. I was the worse person around when I wouldn't
give
> into pagers, cell phones, or the expensive clothes.
>
> Now, many years later the kids are a bit more frugal. Of course, they are
> spending their own many now.

When my kids were small they'd ask me to buy them something in every store
we went into.

My saying NO usually resulted in an argument.

So I decided to tell em I'd buy everything they asked for only they wouldn't
get it till their birthday or Christmas.

It worked GREAT for a LOOOOOOOONG time!

Eventually my oldest said, "You're never gonna buy that for me that are
you?"

I told him, "If you're good and you still want it on your birthday, I will."

That worked as well.

It's like lookin thru a Sharper Image catalog.

You mentally buy everything over and over, only you don't actually spend the
money on it.

Last Christmas my son asked me to buy him a $2000 video camera.

I told him when I was a kid you were lucky to have a bicycle.

So I gave him a used bicycle for Christmas.

I also gave him an industrial size can of Campbell's Split Pea with Ham
soup.

You should have seen the look on his face!

He won't let me cook it because he says it's the funniest present he ever
got.

Best, Dan

PS the ($300) bike was all set up for jumpin and street tricks... it was
just what he wanted.

Ron

August 20th 03, 03:30 PM

"Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "bobb" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "toto" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:08:03 -0700, "bobb" >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >I think I may have agreed with you a number of years ago but times
have
> > > >changed a bit. Kids are venting there anger, anger derived from
being
> > > >denied materialistics... not that they were abused either physically
or
> > > >sexually.
> > > >
> > > >Kids of today seem caught up in image more than anything else. I
think
> > is
> > > >generally reflected even in divorice cases.... they tend to side with
> the
> > > >parent who has most money, gifts, and fun times... and rebell against
> the
> > > >ruling parent.
> > > >
> > > >The kids have also become more cunning. They learn how to use the
law
> in
> > > >their favor... particularly false allegations... to get their way.
> > > >
> > > >I can't help but feel that the errosion of parent rights has a lot to
> do
> > > >with the attitudes of kids today.
> > > >
> > > >bobb
> > >
> > > Children who are taught only to value the material are being neglected
> > > and not getting the attention they need in the first place.
> >
> > If it were the parents teaching such values I would certainly agree.
I,
> > for one, downplay the material stuff but I haven't found a way to
> over-come
> > what might be called peer preasure. The first words out of a kids mouth
> is
> > 'how much did it cost'. I was the worse person around when I wouldn't
> give
> > into pagers, cell phones, or the expensive clothes.
> >
> > Now, many years later the kids are a bit more frugal. Of course, they
are
> > spending their own many now.
>
> When my kids were small they'd ask me to buy them something in every store
> we went into.
>
> My saying NO usually resulted in an argument.
>
> So I decided to tell em I'd buy everything they asked for only they
wouldn't
> get it till their birthday or Christmas.
>
> It worked GREAT for a LOOOOOOOONG time!
>
> Eventually my oldest said, "You're never gonna buy that for me that are
> you?"
>
> I told him, "If you're good and you still want it on your birthday, I
will."
>
> That worked as well.
>
> It's like lookin thru a Sharper Image catalog.
>
> You mentally buy everything over and over, only you don't actually spend
the
> money on it.
>
> Last Christmas my son asked me to buy him a $2000 video camera.
>
> I told him when I was a kid you were lucky to have a bicycle.
>
> So I gave him a used bicycle for Christmas.
>
> I also gave him an industrial size can of Campbell's Split Pea with Ham
> soup.
>
> You should have seen the look on his face!
>
> He won't let me cook it because he says it's the funniest present he ever
> got.
>
> Best, Dan
>
> PS the ($300) bike was all set up for jumpin and street tricks... it was
> just what he wanted.
>

Cute, I like the story. Thanks for posting it.

Ron

[email protected]

August 20th 03, 08:17 PM

"Ron" > wrote:
> "Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
> .net...
> >
> > "bobb" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > >
> > > "toto" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:08:03 -0700, "bobb" >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >I think I may have agreed with you a number of years ago but times
> have
> > > > >changed a bit. Kids are venting there anger, anger derived from
> being
> > > > >denied materialistics... not that they were abused either
> > > > >physically
> or
> > > > >sexually.
> > > > >
> > > > >Kids of today seem caught up in image more than anything else. I
> think
> > > is
> > > > >generally reflected even in divorice cases.... they tend to side
> > > > >with
> > the
> > > > >parent who has most money, gifts, and fun times... and rebell
> > > > >against
> > the
> > > > >ruling parent.
> > > > >
> > > > >The kids have also become more cunning. They learn how to use the
> law
> > in
> > > > >their favor... particularly false allegations... to get their way.
> > > > >
> > > > >I can't help but feel that the errosion of parent rights has a lot
> > > > >to
> > do
> > > > >with the attitudes of kids today.
> > > > >
> > > > >bobb
> > > >
> > > > Children who are taught only to value the material are being
> > > > neglected and not getting the attention they need in the first
> > > > place.
> > >
> > > If it were the parents teaching such values I would certainly
> > > agree.
> I,
> > > for one, downplay the material stuff but I haven't found a way to
> > over-come
> > > what might be called peer preasure. The first words out of a kids
> > > mouth
> > is
> > > 'how much did it cost'. I was the worse person around when I
> > > wouldn't
> > give
> > > into pagers, cell phones, or the expensive clothes.
> > >
> > > Now, many years later the kids are a bit more frugal. Of course, they
> are
> > > spending their own many now.
> >
> > When my kids were small they'd ask me to buy them something in every
> > store we went into.
> >
> > My saying NO usually resulted in an argument.
> >
> > So I decided to tell em I'd buy everything they asked for only they
> wouldn't
> > get it till their birthday or Christmas.
> >
> > It worked GREAT for a LOOOOOOOONG time!
> >
> > Eventually my oldest said, "You're never gonna buy that for me that are
> > you?"
> >
> > I told him, "If you're good and you still want it on your birthday, I
> will."
> >
> > That worked as well.
> >
> > It's like lookin thru a Sharper Image catalog.
> >
> > You mentally buy everything over and over, only you don't actually
> > spend
> the
> > money on it.
> >
> > Last Christmas my son asked me to buy him a $2000 video camera.
> >
> > I told him when I was a kid you were lucky to have a bicycle.
> >
> > So I gave him a used bicycle for Christmas.
> >
> > I also gave him an industrial size can of Campbell's Split Pea with Ham
> > soup.
> >
> > You should have seen the look on his face!
> >
> > He won't let me cook it because he says it's the funniest present he
> > ever got.
> >
> > Best, Dan
> >
> > PS the ($300) bike was all set up for jumpin and street tricks... it
> > was just what he wanted.
> >
>
> Cute, I like the story. Thanks for posting it.

Ha ha, a can of beans and a used bike, coming from the same people that
criticized Neal for saving money. Anyone else catch this??? FYI, Neal's
girls are attending the finer schools of the world now. Dan, otoh, has
lost his children, if he ever even had any to begin with.. What a loser.
No, two losers...Ron and delusional dan. Thanks for the post Ron!

>
> Ron

--
Dennis

R. Steve Walz

August 20th 03, 09:35 PM

bobb wrote:
>
> "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Dan Sullivan wrote:
> > >
> > > "bobb" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > bobb wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's been a long time coming.. but if anyone had listened to the
> kids
> > > > who
> > > > > > passed through Maryville there would have been no surprises.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do have to wonder how come the word of a child who claims
> sexual,
> > > > physical
> > > > > > abuse, or rape in the outside word is not questioned, yet the word
> of
> > > a
> > > > > > child who claims mistreatment in a place such as Maryville is not
> > > heard?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do people have selective hearing? You bet they do!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > bobb
> > > > > ----------------------
> > > > > No, Dummy.
> > > > > Children who are not abused have no motive to fabricate stories
> > > > > about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be believed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Children who already WERE abused and are in an institution have
> > > > > nothing else to do BUT speak of their abuse. That's to be expected.
> > > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > Apparently you are not aware of the number of children who have, in
> fact,
> > > > killed their parents because they didn't like house-hold rules, or
> wanted
> > > > something the parents wouldn't buy them. One boy in a neighboring
> > > community
> > > > killed his father just so he could drive dad's corvette to the
> prom.You
> > > must
> > > > also be unawre of kids to falsey accused their parents of some
> wrong-doing
> > > > merely to get even. A false accusation should not be surprising, nor
> > > should
> > > > the fact that kids do fabricate stories.
> > >
> > > In Steve's world children never lie or make up stories.
> > ---------------
> > Kids who feel they HAVE to make up stories DESERVE protection.
>
> Kids who feel they HAVE to make up stories deserve NO
> protection.
> bobb
-------------------
Garbage, that's like saying a person who shoots someone trying to
kill him should be executed.
Steve

> > > Children only and always speak the truth.
> > >
> > > It's the adults that lie.
> > >
> > > You wonder where they learned it.
> > >
> > > Best, Dan
> > -----------------
> > The weak must be protected from the strong.
> > Steve

R. Steve Walz

August 20th 03, 09:52 PM

bobb wrote:
>
[]
> Kids are venting there anger, anger derived from being
> denied materialistics... not that they were abused either physically or
> sexually.
-----------------------
Wrongo! It isn't material, they only USE that to get back at their
abuser.

> Kids of today seem caught up in image more than anything else. I think is
> generally reflected even in divorice cases.... they tend to side with the
> parent who has most money, gifts, and fun times... and rebell against the
> ruling parent.
----------------
Who you call the "ruling" parent is the ABUSING parent. This is often
the father, because males are raised to be macho controlling fascist
assholes in this culture. Who you called the "fun" parent is often
the woman who has won support from the father and the controlling
ex-husband resents having his power over the purse-strings removed
in the divorce and handed to her, and this economic abuse is usually
the source of wife abuse in marriages that lead to divorced. She is
usually more successful in the separation, because she blooms in her
independence, whereas his control is cut-back and he remains hurting
and depressed till he figures out why everyone hates him now, when
actually everyone always did!!

> The kids have also become more cunning. They learn how to use the law in
> their favor... particularly false allegations... to get their way.
--------------
They should, they have a right to their share of the divorce too.
They have the right to damages for having been damaged by the
controlling abusive asshole father of the middle ages who just
had it handed to him that he's an obsolete antique that will
need redemption before he can ever find love again in the modern
world, asn ass who has lots of lessons to learn in how to treat
others.

> I can't help but feel that the errosion of parent rights has a lot to do
> with the attitudes of kids today.
> bobb
----------------
Your so-called "parent rights" are remnants of the Dark Age feudalism
that will now be systematically destroyed by the new achievement of
greater and greater fairness in the modernization of this society and
this formerly VERY sick culture.

You're just a hurting macho asshole who hasn't even yet figured out
why his little family came to hate his ****ing guts so much.
Steve

Dan Sullivan

August 20th 03, 10:26 PM

> wrote in message
...
> "Ron" > wrote:
> > "Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message

<<<snip>>>

> > > When my kids were small they'd ask me to buy them something in every
> > > store we went into.
> > >
> > > My saying NO usually resulted in an argument.
> > >
> > > So I decided to tell em I'd buy everything they asked for only they
> > wouldn't
> > > get it till their birthday or Christmas.
> > >
> > > It worked GREAT for a LOOOOOOOONG time!
> > >
> > > Eventually my oldest said, "You're never gonna buy that for me that
are
> > > you?"
> > >
> > > I told him, "If you're good and you still want it on your birthday, I
> > will."
> > >
> > > That worked as well.
> > >
> > > It's like lookin thru a Sharper Image catalog.
> > >
> > > You mentally buy everything over and over, only you don't actually
> > > spend
> > the
> > > money on it.
> > >
> > > Last Christmas my son asked me to buy him a $2000 video camera.
> > >
> > > I told him when I was a kid you were lucky to have a bicycle.
> > >
> > > So I gave him a used bicycle for Christmas.
> > >
> > > I also gave him an industrial size can of Campbell's Split Pea with
Ham
> > > soup.
> > >
> > > You should have seen the look on his face!
> > >
> > > He won't let me cook it because he says it's the funniest present he
> > > ever got.
> > >
> > > Best, Dan
> > >
> > > PS the ($300) bike was all set up for jumpin and street tricks... it
> > > was just what he wanted.
> > >
> >
> > Cute, I like the story. Thanks for posting it.
>
> Ha ha, a can of beans and a used bike,

Split Pea with Ham Soup.

And this was bike #3.

After a mountain bike and some other bike that was too heavy for the street
tricks.

And what do you give a kid who already has his own comp, own TV, electric
guitar, acoustic guitars, keyboards, drums, video camera, multiple
skateboards, stereo, etc, etc...

You give em a lesson on life.

Kids have everything these days.

My son says the music today is the way it is because the kids are angry.

Angry? About what?

Not having Sony Playstation #17?

Not having baggy enough pants?

Having to take ten minutes out of cartoon watching to mow a lawn?

> coming from the same people that
> criticized Neal for saving money.

I believe I criticized neal for buying his little girls wear used underwear.

Do ya think used toothbrushes were beyond neal's frugality?

I don't.

> Anyone else catch this??? FYI, Neal's
> girls are attending the finer schools of the world now.

Oh yeah?

"Finer schools of the world?"

Which ones?

> Dan, otoh, has lost his children,
> if he ever even had any to begin with..

I never lost my kids.

But you did lose your's, Dennis.

Did you lose your son once or more than once, Dennis?

whatsisname lost his kids to fostercare twice.

> What a loser. No, two losers...Ron and delusional dan.

Has yer son ever asked to live in a real house, Dennis?

You know... instead of a tin can.

> Thanks for the post Ron!

You know when you give someone a gift, it's supposed to be the thought that
counts.

And if it's a gift for your child and you can teach em a lesson about life
at the same time, you've really accomplished something.

The bike'll last a year or two if you're lucky.

The lesson they'll always remember.

And if he never opens the Split Pea Soup he'll have a great story to tell
his kids.

Just like I tell my kids stories about my father.

Dan

R. Steve Walz

August 20th 03, 11:07 PM

Dan Sullivan wrote:
>
> My son says the music today is the way it is because the kids are angry.
>
> Angry? About what?
>
> Not having Sony Playstation #17?
>
> Not having baggy enough pants?
>
> Having to take ten minutes out of cartoon watching to mow a lawn?
--------------
Nope, about being pushed around instead of being left to figure it
all out themselves. You see, that steals all the fun from life.
Steve

Dan Sullivan

August 21st 03, 12:03 AM

"R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > My son says the music today is the way it is because the kids are angry.
> >
> > Angry? About what?
> >
> > Not having Sony Playstation #17?
> >
> > Not having baggy enough pants?
> >
> > Having to take ten minutes out of cartoon watching to mow a lawn?
> --------------
> Nope, about being pushed around instead of being left to figure it
> all out themselves. You see, that steals all the fun from life.

Life is doin the things ya don't want to do to get the chance to do the
things ya do want to do.

Dan

R. Steve Walz

August 21st 03, 02:50 AM

Dan Sullivan wrote:
>
> "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Dan Sullivan wrote:
> > >
> > > My son says the music today is the way it is because the kids are angry.
> > >
> > > Angry? About what?
> > >
> > > Not having Sony Playstation #17?
> > >
> > > Not having baggy enough pants?
> > >
> > > Having to take ten minutes out of cartoon watching to mow a lawn?
> > --------------
> > Nope, about being pushed around instead of being left to figure it
> > all out themselves. You see, that steals all the fun from life.
>
> Life is doin the things ya don't want to do to get the chance to do the
> things ya do want to do.
> Dan
----------------
No, it's figuring out that you're supposed to kill anyone who says
stupid **** like that.
Steve

R. Steve Walz

August 21st 03, 02:52 AM

Dan Sullivan wrote:
>
> "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > bobb wrote:
>
> <<<snip>>>
>
> > > Kids who feel they HAVE to make up stories deserve NO
> > > protection.
> > > bobb
> > -------------------
> > Garbage, that's like saying a person who shoots someone trying to
> > kill him should be executed.
> > Steve
>
> More accurately you believe that a person, who fabricates a story that
> someone was trying to kill them and who shoots that someone, shouldn't
> suffer any consequences because they're not an adult, just a liar.
--------------------------
Nope, that would be someone like you, and deserves death.

> > > > > Children only and always speak the truth.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's the adults that lie.
> > > > >
> > > > > You wonder where they learned it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best, Dan
> > > > -----------------
> > > > The weak must be protected from the strong.
>
> And the massively stupid should be protected from themselves.
-----------------------------------
The stupid but harmless deserve protection,
the stupidly abusive deserves obliteration.
Steve

R. Steve Walz

August 21st 03, 04:09 AM

Dan Sullivan wrote:
>
> "R. Steve Walz" > wrote:
[]
> > > Life is doin the things ya don't want to do to get the chance to do the
> > > things ya do want to do.
> > > Dan
> > ----------------
> > No, it's figuring out that you're supposed to kill anyone who says
> > stupid **** like that.
> > Steve
>
> You gotta have a philosophy for kids better than that.
---------------------
But you have to start there.

> Let's hear it.
>
> Dan
-------------
I've told you people for years, don't you pay attention?

If you even rescue your young child from real danger, kneel to your
child and apologize immediately afterward.

Treat your children like you would have to treat your adult friends
to HAVE any friends!!

If anyone says the Dark Ages are over, smash his face with a brick.

If anyone tells you that your fantasies aren't meant to become
reality, kill him, he is your enslaver.

If anyone tries to stand in the way of children's sexual
exploration done with the consent of those they are exploring,
torture him to death.

If anyone claims that some people deserve more than others,
make him shriek himself to death.
Steve

[email protected]

August 21st 03, 05:04 PM

"R. Steve Walz" > wrote:
> Dan Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Dan Sullivan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My son says the music today is the way it is because the kids are
> > > > angry.
> > > >
> > > > Angry? About what?
> > > >
> > > > Not having Sony Playstation #17?
> > > >
> > > > Not having baggy enough pants?
> > > >
> > > > Having to take ten minutes out of cartoon watching to mow a lawn?
> > > --------------
> > > Nope, about being pushed around instead of being left to figure it
> > > all out themselves. You see, that steals all the fun from life.
> >
> > Life is doin the things ya don't want to do to get the chance to do the
> > things ya do want to do.
> > Dan
> ----------------
> No, it's figuring out that you're supposed to kill anyone who says
> stupid **** like that.
> Steve

Wow. Ten minutes to mow a lawn?!? Heck it takes me more time than that
just to mop the floor of our downstairs rec room. Maybe six hours of two
people mowing our lawn. Now I understand why dan was so upset and turned
in his neighbor, for that neighbor's dog peeing on dan's blade of grass
thru the fence. <chuckle>

--
Dennis

Dan Sullivan

August 21st 03, 05:08 PM

> wrote in message
...
> "R. Steve Walz" > wrote:
> > Dan Sullivan wrote:
> > >
> > > "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Dan Sullivan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My son says the music today is the way it is because the kids are
> > > > > angry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Angry? About what?
> > > > >
> > > > > Not having Sony Playstation #17?
> > > > >
> > > > > Not having baggy enough pants?
> > > > >
> > > > > Having to take ten minutes out of cartoon watching to mow a lawn?
> > > > --------------
> > > > Nope, about being pushed around instead of being left to figure it
> > > > all out themselves. You see, that steals all the fun from life.
> > >
> > > Life is doin the things ya don't want to do to get the chance to do
the
> > > things ya do want to do.
> > > Dan
> > ----------------
> > No, it's figuring out that you're supposed to kill anyone who says
> > stupid **** like that.
> > Steve
>
>
> Wow. Ten minutes to mow a lawn?!? Heck it takes me more time than that
> just to mop the floor of our downstairs rec room.

Try peeing outside for a change, Dennis.

Dan

[email protected]

August 22nd 03, 03:12 AM

"Ron" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Ron" > wrote:
> > > "Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
> > > .net...
> > > >
> > > > "bobb" > wrote in message
> > > > nk.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > "toto" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:08:03 -0700, "bobb"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >I think I may have agreed with you a number of years ago but
> times
> > > have
> > > > > > >changed a bit. Kids are venting there anger, anger derived
> > > > > > >from
> > > being
> > > > > > >denied materialistics... not that they were abused either
> > > > > > >physically
> > > or
> > > > > > >sexually.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Kids of today seem caught up in image more than anything else.
> > > > > > >I
> > > think
> > > > > is
> > > > > > >generally reflected even in divorice cases.... they tend to
> > > > > > >side with
> > > > the
> > > > > > >parent who has most money, gifts, and fun times... and rebell
> > > > > > >against
> > > > the
> > > > > > >ruling parent.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The kids have also become more cunning. They learn how to use
> the
> > > law
> > > > in
> > > > > > >their favor... particularly false allegations... to get their
> way.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I can't help but feel that the errosion of parent rights has a
> lot
> > > > > > >to
> > > > do
> > > > > > >with the attitudes of kids today.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >bobb
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Children who are taught only to value the material are being
> > > > > > neglected and not getting the attention they need in the first
> > > > > > place.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it were the parents teaching such values I would certainly
> > > > > agree.
> > > I,
> > > > > for one, downplay the material stuff but I haven't found a way to
> > > > over-come
> > > > > what might be called peer preasure. The first words out of a
> > > > > kids mouth
> > > > is
> > > > > 'how much did it cost'. I was the worse person around when I
> > > > > wouldn't
> > > > give
> > > > > into pagers, cell phones, or the expensive clothes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, many years later the kids are a bit more frugal. Of course,
> they
> > > are
> > > > > spending their own many now.
> > > >
> > > > When my kids were small they'd ask me to buy them something in
> > > > every store we went into.
> > > >
> > > > My saying NO usually resulted in an argument.
> > > >
> > > > So I decided to tell em I'd buy everything they asked for only they
> > > wouldn't
> > > > get it till their birthday or Christmas.
> > > >
> > > > It worked GREAT for a LOOOOOOOONG time!
> > > >
> > > > Eventually my oldest said, "You're never gonna buy that for me that
> are
> > > > you?"
> > > >
> > > > I told him, "If you're good and you still want it on your birthday,
> > > > I
> > > will."
> > > >
> > > > That worked as well.
> > > >
> > > > It's like lookin thru a Sharper Image catalog.
> > > >
> > > > You mentally buy everything over and over, only you don't actually
> > > > spend
> > > the
> > > > money on it.
> > > >
> > > > Last Christmas my son asked me to buy him a $2000 video camera.
> > > >
> > > > I told him when I was a kid you were lucky to have a bicycle.
> > > >
> > > > So I gave him a used bicycle for Christmas.
> > > >
> > > > I also gave him an industrial size can of Campbell's Split Pea with
> Ham
> > > > soup.
> > > >
> > > > You should have seen the look on his face!
> > > >
> > > > He won't let me cook it because he says it's the funniest present
> > > > he ever got.
> > > >
> > > > Best, Dan
> > > >
> > > > PS the ($300) bike was all set up for jumpin and street tricks...
> > > > it was just what he wanted.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Cute, I like the story. Thanks for posting it.
> >
> > Ha ha, a can of beans and a used bike, coming from the same people
> > that criticized Neal for saving money. Anyone else catch this??? FYI,
> > Neal's girls are attending the finer schools of the world now. Dan,
> > otoh, has lost his children, if he ever even had any to begin with..
> > What a loser. No, two losers...Ron and delusional dan. Thanks for the
> > post Ron!
> >
>
> I enjoyed the story, dip****. That's what I said, and that's what I
> meant.

Hi practice dog! I don't care what you say, or what you mean. What gave
you the impression that I do? I called you a "loser" and thanked you for
the post, that's all. ( :

>
> kneal didn't save money, he abused his own children. Significant
> difference there dummy.

You criticized him severely and made fun of him for shopping at yard sales
and thrift stores. That is abuse? What is your point? Difference from
what?

>
> His girls may be, and they are better off away from him. They would be
> even better of if they had never known him.

"His girls may be, and they are better off away from him." Hey, that
makes about as much sense as your usual posts. Tipping the bottle just a
wee bit again, are you? Ron? The only thing you got right is they are
"his" girls. They love him and he them, so I would beg to differ with
you.

>
> Ya don't like my post dennis, don't read it. A pretty simple solution.
> A better one is to save all the citizens of IL some grief and shoot
> yourself. That way you wont read my posts, two birds with one stone.....

I don't like your posts Ron. I think I'll keep on reading them. Want to
try and stop me? Lol. Why would I want to shoot myself Ron? I have
everything going for me. What do you have? Let's see...Are you still
asking children to come closer to you? Are you still a self-proclaimed
"NAZI" in training?

http://www.clannorthwind.net/inh/mem/le.html (Ron's page.)

Thanks Ron!

>
> Ron

--
Dennis

Coloradoskibum

August 23rd 03, 04:32 AM

> Kids of today seem caught up in image more than anything else. I think is
> generally reflected even in divorice cases.... they tend to side with the
> parent who has most money, gifts, and fun times... and rebell against the
> ruling parent.

This is horse****. I don't know what kind of work you do Bobb, but I teach
high school in a district where the vast majority of the kids *do not* live
in homes with both natural parents. And I can tell you from years of
experience that they absolutely do not "side" with the parent with the most
money. They side with the parent that treats them with the highest level of
personal dignity and respect.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

Coloradoskibum

August 23rd 03, 04:36 AM

> Angry? About what?
>
> Not having Sony Playstation #17?
>
> Not having baggy enough pants?
>
> Having to take ten minutes out of cartoon watching to mow a lawn?

No, I believe probably angry about the lack of quality time with their
parents. Believe it or not, most teenagers *want* to spend more time with
their parents. They crave it, they need it, but they're actually getting
less and less. Of course they're angry!
--
ColoradoSkiBum

R. Steve Walz

August 23rd 03, 04:40 AM

Coloradoskibum wrote:
>
> > Kids of today seem caught up in image more than anything else. I think is
> > generally reflected even in divorice cases.... they tend to side with the
> > parent who has most money, gifts, and fun times... and rebell against the
> > ruling parent.
>
> This is horse****. I don't know what kind of work you do Bobb, but I teach
> high school in a district where the vast majority of the kids *do not* live
> in homes with both natural parents. And I can tell you from years of
> experience that they absolutely do not "side" with the parent with the most
> money. They side with the parent that treats them with the highest level of
> personal dignity and respect.
> --
> ColoradoSkiBum
-----------------
Yup!!
Steve

greccogirl

August 28th 03, 12:20 AM

I am beginning to hate everything that CPS stands for, even though they
have never caused me a problem personally. Have any of you been
following the latest child murder here in Atlanta? Child abused
horribly land then beaten to death. CPS returned child several times to
abusing step father. Now under investigation. Caseworkers fired and
others resigned.
This is beginning to happen wayyyyyyy too often.

Dan Sullivan wrote:

>"R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>Dan Sullivan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>bobb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It's been a long time coming.. but if anyone had listened to the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>kids
>
>
>>>who
>>>
>>>
>>>>>passed through Maryville there would have been no surprises.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do have to wonder how come the word of a child who claims sexual,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>physical
>>>
>>>
>>>>>abuse, or rape in the outside word is not questioned, yet the word
>>>>>
>>>>>
>of a
>
>
>>>>>child who claims mistreatment in a place such as Maryville is not
>>>>>
>>>>>
>heard?
>
>
>>>>>Do people have selective hearing? You bet they do!
>>>>>
>>>>>bobb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>----------------------
>>>>No, Dummy.
>>>>Children who are not abused have no motive to fabricate stories
>>>>about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be believed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>If you say your daddy (soon to be ex-husband) touched you on your butt
>>>
>>>
>I'll
>
>
>>>buy you a new dress.
>>>
>>>
>>----------------------------
>>If they love their father, they won't, if they don't then he deserves
>>it, even if false.
>>
>>
>
>Who wouldn't agree with you, Steve?
>
>
>
>>>>Children who already WERE abused and are in an institution have
>>>>nothing else to do BUT speak of their abuse. That's to be expected.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>A friend of mine's daughter was in an alcohol rehab program when she was
>>>twelve.
>>>
>>>On her last day there in a group session my friend's daughter said she
>>>believed that everyone was abused.
>>>
>>>
>>----------------------------
>>They are, partly parents, partly society, partly life, it's all a
>>matter of degree. And in a western family with authoritarian child-
>>raising, it's inevitable.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>This statement prompted a report to the CPS hotline.
>>>
>>>
>>--------------------
>>Good.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>His daughter thought she remembered her father touching her on her chest
>>>
>>>
>on
>
>
>>>her seventh birthday.
>>>
>>>
>>----------------------
>>Maybe she did. It's not YOURS to say.
>>
>>
>
>She also thought her father brought her naked to school and beat her with
>lead pipes.
>
>The school administration had known about the contentious divorce and they
>told CPS that they didn't see any inappropriate behavior on the part of the
>father.
>
>And there were no recollection of injuries to the girl by the school nurse
>or gym coach.
>
>
>
>>>CPS wrote up her story as if she told it to three people.
>>>
>>>
>>-------------------------
>>Perhaps she did.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Her counselor, the person who ran the group sessions, and the person who
>>>reported the allegation to CPS.
>>>
>>>
>>----------------
>>That adds up to three to me.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Would you be surprised to know that they were all the same person?
>>>
>>>
>>----------------------
>>Doesn't matter.
>>
>>
>
>Why not?
>
>
>
>>>IOW there wasn't a BIT of credible evidence that the father had done
>>>anything to his daughter.
>>>
>>>
>>--------------
>>So YOU say.
>>Except she said so... classic.
>>
>>
>
>What's classic about it?
>
>
>
>>Abusers do things in private.
>>
>>
>
>So do non-abusers.
>
>
>
>>If you don't want to be called one, be nice to your child.
>>
>>
>
>CALLED ONE???
>
>You said kids didn't lie about abuse, "Children who are not abused have no
>motive to fabricate stories about their parents. That's WHY they SHOULD be
>believed."
>
>and now you say they might lie about it because of their perception of
>what's nice and what isn't!
>
>
>
>>If you're a good friend to them they won't want to hurt you.
>>
>>
>
>But they have two parents and one parent may have more control or influence
>over them than the other.
>
>In fact that's usually the case.
>
>
>
>>If they do want to hurt you, it's BECAUSE YOU HURT THEM,
>>
>>
>
>You said a child could call their parent an abuser if they felt their parent
>wasn't nice to them.
>
>
>
>>YOU ASSHOLE!
>>
>>
>
>I win.
>
>Dan
>
>
>
>

Dan Sullivan

August 28th 03, 01:14 AM

"greccogirl" > wrote in message
...
>
> I am beginning to hate everything that CPS stands for, even though they
> have never caused me a problem personally.

CPS hasn't cornered the market on monumental mistakes, yet.

> Have any of you been
> following the latest child murder here in Atlanta? Child abused
> horribly land then beaten to death. CPS returned child several times to
> abusing step father. Now under investigation.

As I've said,

The question CPS should always ask is, "Would you want your grandchild be
returned to that situation," or, "Would you want your grandchild removed
from that situation."

The answer to those questions will point CPS in the direction they SHOULD
take.

Too many times CPS returns children when they KNOW the children are still in
danger.

And too many times CPS removes children when they KNOW there is no danger.

> Caseworkers fired and others resigned.
>
> This is beginning to happen wayyyyyyy too often.

Always has.

Best, Dan

R. Steve Walz

August 28th 03, 03:01 AM

greccogirl wrote:
>
> I am beginning to hate everything that CPS stands for, even though they
> have never caused me a problem personally. Have any of you been
> following the latest child murder here in Atlanta? Child abused
> horribly land then beaten to death. CPS returned child several times to
> abusing step father. Now under investigation. Caseworkers fired and
> others resigned.
> This is beginning to happen wayyyyyyy too often.
-------------
Then you should SUPPORT CPS and INCREASE THEIR FUNDING!

Moron!

That's like hating the police and cutting their funding because
you DON'T LIKE CRIME!
Steve

Dan Sullivan

August 28th 03, 04:24 PM

"R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message >...
> greccogirl wrote:
> >
> > I am beginning to hate everything that CPS stands for, even though they
> > have never caused me a problem personally. Have any of you been
> > following the latest child murder here in Atlanta? Child abused
> > horribly land then beaten to death. CPS returned child several times to
> > abusing step father. Now under investigation. Caseworkers fired and
> > others resigned.
> > This is beginning to happen wayyyyyyy too often.
> -------------
> Then you should SUPPORT CPS and INCREASE THEIR FUNDING!

Increase CPS' funding so they can hire back the people who were fired
and who resigned from CPS because they returned a child several times
to an abusing relative who eventually beat the child to death?

Is that what the public should support CPS for?

> Moron!
>
> That's like hating the police and cutting their funding because
> you DON'T LIKE CRIME!

Actually it's like hating the police because they were called on
numerous occasions to a house where they knew a man was continously
abusing his step-son and yet they failed to remove the abuser until
the child eventually died from the abuse.

Is that about right?

> Steve

How much are ya gonna personally donate to CPS so they can continue
their
"work," Steve?

Dan

Dan Sullivan

August 29th 03, 02:42 PM

"R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > "R. Steve Walz" > wrote in message
>...
> > > greccogirl wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am beginning to hate everything that CPS stands for, even though
they
> > > > have never caused me a problem personally. Have any of you been
> > > > following the latest child murder here in Atlanta? Child abused
> > > > horribly land then beaten to death. CPS returned child several
times to
> > > > abusing step father. Now under investigation. Caseworkers fired
and
> > > > others resigned.
> > > > This is beginning to happen wayyyyyyy too often.
> > > -------------
> > > Then you should SUPPORT CPS and INCREASE THEIR FUNDING!
> >
> > Increase CPS' funding so they can hire back the people who were fired
> > and who resigned from CPS because they returned a child several times
> > to an abusing relative who eventually beat the child to death?
> >
> > Is that what the public should support CPS for?
> -----------------------
> Why would any such agency do that?

Because they want to hire people with experience?

> You're a disingenuous liar!

No I'm not.

If CPS needs people to make better decisions all they have to do is properly
train the people they hire.

The problem right now is the caseworkers and their supervisors are making
bad decisions.

> > > Moron!
> > >
> > > That's like hating the police and cutting their funding because
> > > you DON'T LIKE CRIME!
> >
> > Actually it's like hating the police because they were called on
> > numerous occasions to a house where they knew a man was continously
> > abusing his step-son and yet they failed to remove the abuser until
> > the child eventually died from the abuse.
> >
> > Is that about right?
> ------------------------
> No, it's a lie. And you KNOW it!

My comparison is far more accurate than your's.

> Steve

Dan

greccogirl

August 30th 03, 12:10 AM

No, Steve. Funding had nothing to do with caseworkers making stupid
decisions. I DO support CPS when they do their jobs.

R. Steve Walz wrote:

>greccogirl wrote:
>
>
>>I am beginning to hate everything that CPS stands for, even though they
>>have never caused me a problem personally. Have any of you been
>>following the latest child murder here in Atlanta? Child abused
>>horribly land then beaten to death. CPS returned child several times to
>>abusing step father. Now under investigation. Caseworkers fired and
>>others resigned.
>>This is beginning to happen wayyyyyyy too often.
>>
>>
>-------------
>Then you should SUPPORT CPS and INCREASE THEIR FUNDING!
>
>Moron!
>
>That's like hating the police and cutting their funding because
>you DON'T LIKE CRIME!
>Steve
>
>

Greg Hanson

August 31st 03, 01:07 PM

Dan, it really looks to me like arguing with Steve is so important
that you change your position on CPS just to argue with him.
Didn't you two used to be buddies?

Cat fight eh?

> > That's like hating the police and cutting
> > their funding because you DON'T LIKE CRIME!
> > Steve

But sometimes cops ARE their own crime wave!

A cop in my home town was part of a group that backed
a 50' Semi trailer up snug to a big store, chainsawed a hole
in a wall, took their time loading and had a police escort.

The cop had had several such incidents, hopping from
town to town until they instituted a registry for
bad cops.

In bigger cities, it's very common to find Police
running "protection" rackets for drug dealers and
picking off their competitors and product.

One who got caught testified before Congress a few years ago.
He was making such good money his paycheck was piddly.

Do we have to pay every cop $300K per year so they
won't be tempted by crime money? Does money buy honesty?

Dan Sullivan

August 31st 03, 01:26 PM

"Greg Hanson" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Dan, it really looks to me like arguing with Steve is so important
> that you change your position on CPS just to argue with him.

You are wrong as usual, Greg.

How do you believe my position on CPS has changed?

> Didn't you two used to be buddies?

We've exchanged messages.

> Cat fight eh?
>
> > > That's like hating the police and cutting
> > > their funding because you DON'T LIKE CRIME!
> > > Steve
>
> But sometimes cops ARE their own crime wave!

More often than that boyfriends of mothers maltreat their children.

Is that not true?

You can go off on a rant now, Greg.

> A cop in my home town was part of a group that backed
> a 50' Semi trailer up snug to a big store, chainsawed a hole
> in a wall, took their time loading and had a police escort.
>
> The cop had had several such incidents, hopping from
> town to town until they instituted a registry for
> bad cops.
>
> In bigger cities, it's very common to find Police
> running "protection" rackets for drug dealers and
> picking off their competitors and product.
>
> One who got caught testified before Congress a few years ago.
> He was making such good money his paycheck was piddly.
>
> Do we have to pay every cop $300K per year so they
> won't be tempted by crime money? Does money buy honesty?

I think the question you'd like answered is, 'Will leaving an unrelated
child in foster care get me M-O-N-E-Y???'

Lookin fer that answer, Greg?

Dan