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Kane
September 14th 03, 08:21 PM
On 14 Sep 2003 17:15:45 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

>You ACTUALLY HAVE TO READ THE ARTICLE,

Yep, I did. Why didn't you? And you the poster.

>Kane,

You called?

>Blowhard.

Tsk tsk. To be called a name by a Plant. How embarrassing.

>Didja flunk reading comprehension?

Math was my challenge, but in college I aced it, thanks to a really
good tutor...I married her...r r r r

I aced "reading comprehension" with no help at all. r r r r

>Kane embarasses himself again.

Yes. I actually converse in USENET with a mindless Plant as though it
was human.

Oh, the humiliation.

>Nope, he doesn't know that emotion....

I don't get it. You accuse me of embarrassment, then claim I am not.

I think you are fishing.

What a scoop!

I think I'll call Montel's people and give it to them, "Plant Fishes."
or the "Fishing Plant of USENET."

Damn! I ought to be in public relations. Need a PR guy, Cucumber?

>only
>hostility and anger:

Oh dear. Are Plants unable to recognize other emotions then those?

I think you missed my "hilarity." LMAO.....

You certainly seem to have that particular limitation. In fact your
own range of emotions seem highly limited. Mostly you project malice.

>He needs Anger management.

Clue: I direct my "Anger" quite carefully.

Thus I manage it very well, indeed.

And you seem to notice very handily?

Aren't we a team though? R R R R R

And of course, now that you have engaged me on issues concerning your
assessment of me psychologically we, I and any readers, are supposed
to not notice that you didn't respond to even one of my points that
show you are full of ****?

Oh well, had you it might have upset my whole day, what with your
breaking with Pumpkin tradition and your usual routine.

r r r r

bingo bango bongo.

Stoneman.

>
>
>>Subject: Re: Murder Swedish style & crime higher than you think
>>From: (Kane)
>>Date: 9/13/2003 2:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
(Fern5827) wrote in message
>...
>>> http://cphpost.sites.itera.dk/default.asp?id=34392
>>>
>>> May be worth a look.
>>
>>might be, might not.
>>
>>>
>>> It is possible the RATE is higher. Possibly higher than the rest
of the
>>EU.
>>
>>
>>And the relevance to this of a no spank law in Sweden would be?
>>
>>If you do even a casual inquiry you'll find that all the countries
>>that have a far lower incidence of crime in the EU also have NO
SPANK
>>laws, so neither causation or correlation would apply. In fact it
>>would tend to strengthen the correlation to lower crime rates in
those
>>countries that more vigorously pursue no spank alternatives and
>>enforcement of the pertaining law.
>>
>>In other words, there is a high likelihood there is some other
factor
>>than spanking or not ( in fact I think it was YOU folks from the
>>pro-spank nitwit crowd that claimed Swedish citizens are spanking
>>their children despite the law ) that is causing a reporting of a
>>higher crime rate.
>>
>>It could even be the reporting and data collection methods
variations
>>between countries, and what is and isn't considered criminal
behavior.
>>
>>Such silliness, but then that's about all a Pumpkin can come up
with.
>>
>>It's miracle that a Plant can cut and paste anyway, so we celebrate
>>that you can do something at all but sit there and wait to be made
>>into a JackOLantern and pies....R R R R
>>
>>bingo bango bongo.
>>
>>Stoneman

Greg Hanson
September 15th 03, 04:17 PM
Fern: I think this is just the tip of the iceberg (accidental pun)
when it comes to wonderful non spanking Scandinavia.

Are they fudging the numbers to try to put on a low crime image?
(Didn't some city in the US get found out for something like
that to enhance their "quality of life" rating to bring in
people and employers?)

Does Interpol have any motivation to lie about the stats?

That they compare their murder rate to us might be a similar
stupid comparison shoved in their faces. If the US murder rate
is the standard by which they judge their own murder rates,
maybe they need to look to a higher standard like Moscow,
Beijing or Guatamala? :) Or Nazi Germany? :)

What I'm confused about is that Social Worker types seem
(in literature) to preach the connection of an entire
constellation of other factors to crime/murder stats.

Then when it's convenient they use a place where NONE
of those factors are the same as if it was a CONTROLLED
scientific comparison.

1. Scandinavians PEOPLE are NOT American PEOPLE.
2. Almost every variable does.
3. Nothing is the same.
4. Everything changes.
5. Why would any comparison be meaningful?
6. What idiot would compare Copenhagen to Detroit or Los Angeles?

Wasn't using Sweden as a model no spanking paradise stupid?

Part of this short article actually sounds like the
Danes might be a bit sick of the "non spanking" hype also!

"our laid-back, neutral, furniture-loving neighbour, where
slapping a child is a criminal offence"

http://cphpost.sites.itera.dk/default.asp?id=34392
Murder - Swedish style Copenhagen Post (Denmark) 14 September
2003
New Interpol international crime statistics revealed, rather
surprisingly, that Sweden, our laid-back, neutral, furniture-loving
neighbour, where slapping a child is a criminal offence, tops the
European crime league in murder, serious assaults and robberies, and
even surpasses the USA in violent crime. The murder rate in Sweden is
three times as high as Denmark, four times as high as Norway, and
twice as high as in the USA. In addition, Sweden has twice as many sex
crimes and robberies as this country and 25 times as many violent
assaults. A Swedish National Crime Agency criminologist dismissed the
Interpol figures as 'exaggerated.' 'They claim that there were 900
murders here in 2001, but that also included suicides which have
somehow ended up in the murder column. To say we have a higher murder
rate than the USA is ridiculous,' he said.

Kane
September 16th 03, 02:33 AM
On 15 Sep 2003 08:17:45 -0700, (Greg Hanson)
wrote:

>Fern: I think this is just the tip of the iceberg (accidental pun)
>when it comes to wonderful non spanking Scandinavia.

Well now, that is not quite accurate. One of the things Doan crowed
over, and I'm sure made The Plant giggle, was that parents in
Scandinavia do not have to be afraid of inforcement...the law is
writen without that feature, and they still, and this made Doan howl
with glee, spank there children rather a lot.

It very hard to reform the ignorant violent types like you, Greegor.
You are so sure of yourself and so without empathy that you don't and
can't get it until you get smashed up side the head.

I think grandpa was too old. I'll be happy to stand in for him next
time.

After a little bout of illness I'm back to curling 58 pounds, five
reps, five sets, every other day. Wanna feel my muskuls?

>Are they fudging the numbers to try to put on a low crime image?

Well if they were someone caught them. eh?

But if you think they were, just post it. We'll make fun of them and
villify them right along with you.

>(Didn't some city in the US get found out for something like
> that to enhance their "quality of life" rating to bring in
> people and employers?)

You do take strange asides, now don't you. What has this particular
byway got to do with spanking/nonspanking vis a vis crime rates?

I'll listen. You know me, patient as a Buddha, and willing to wait
years and years to nail your ass for what you did to the little girl.

I think it won't be long. She is so close to being a teen now. A
couple of years more of your lazy sitting around conning her mother
and she'll be doin' her Laura Croft practice. Little girls these days
are growing up to be anything but compliant...don'tchaknow.

I can just imagine her plans for you as she remembers the shower, the
towel boy, the hands on her tiny six year old naked shoulders being
pushed under the shower, and the coldness....ooooo,.... the
coldness....the embarrassment for wetting herself.

Yeah, I'd have a bugout bag packed if I were you, and someone watching
her.

>Does Interpol have any motivation to lie about the stats?

Interpol?

They are upset about spanking and crime relationships? Hmm. I guess
I'm unfamiliar with their mandate.

>That they compare their murder rate to us might be a similar
>stupid comparison shoved in their faces.

Yah just got to bully someone, don't yah. "Shoved in their faces" Is
like shoved under the shower because she wet herself and had shampoo
in her hair?

>If the US murder rate
>is the standard by which they judge their own murder rates,
>maybe they need to look to a higher standard like Moscow,
>Beijing or Guatamala? :) Or Nazi Germany? :)

Nazi Germany, after the National Socialist Workers Party came to power
acted according to the law. Sadly, like some laws that protect you,
they were bad laws. Would that we weren't going in the direction of
fascism in this country even now.

They will leave laws in place that protect such as you. Sad. But true.

But your time will come. I have a hunch, if that child really gets it
what you are, she won't care about the law, only about payback.

I'll pay for her defense, promise.

>What I'm confused about is that Social Worker types seem
>(in literature) to preach the connection of an entire
>constellation of other factors to crime/murder stats.

No they don't. Those are Social Scientists. It's their job to find
causation and correlation where they can. So they simply chart events
and incidences and make connections where they seem to fit.

From that they attempt to advise, by request, policy makers so we,
this society, might be better prepared, or at least not too surprized
when thugs like you start your numbers.

>Then when it's convenient they use a place where NONE
>of those factors are the same as if it was a CONTROLLED
>scientific comparison.

No they don't. The government uses Social Scientist studies to make
decisions. It's considered a pretty good way to do things, rather than
guess and be so wrong, as you so often are and were.

By what means using what methods would you like Social Workers (r rr )
to make decisions about adult towelboys and little girls? You want
them to guess don't you. But in fact they have hard data, no analysis,
but hard numbers, that clearly show that the paramour (there, that
should make you feel better, Whore) of a women is the one most likely
to abuse those children.

Any man that moves into a home with a woman and her children....and
forgive mee...r r r r r r rr ........has got to study up before hand
on this subject.

Just like you kindly blamed the victim for in your post to BigBoy.

Does nothing embarrass you?

There is a condition that includes that charateristic in the DSM IV.
You should look it up.

>1. Scandinavians PEOPLE are NOT American PEOPLE.

I am impressed. You are so erudite.

>2. Almost every variable does.

Does what, be an American people?

>3. Nothing is the same.

As anything else. We know. Even mirror images are 180 degrees out of
faze with what they are reflecting.

Are you going to bore us further with your giant intellect and powers
of deduction? Bucking for S. Holmes Prize for 2003?

That already went to a gent out in Ill-noise that heads up a parent
advocate outfit. Look him up. He'll show it to you, surely.

>4. Everything changes.

Yep, even by the minute of time fragments. Atoms move, pal.

You must have known that or you would make such an obvious
statement...no wait, you'd only do that if you thought everyone ELSE
was stupid.

>5. Why would any comparison be meaningful?

Yeah, pointless to compare a dry day with a wet and put on your hat.
Why in just a few seconds the rain could stop.

Look up stupid. Shut your mouth. Breath through your nose. Make some
gurggling noises when you choke to death. We need to keep track of
your progress .

>6. What idiot would compare Copenhagen to Detroit or Los Angeles?

Someone idiot trying to figure out what is going on, and doing so by
NOT sitting on their dead ass moaning and whining that everyone is
against them so why work, who get married until the state returns the
child, why why why oh why am I.
>
>Wasn't using Sweden as a model no spanking paradise stupid?
>

No, as I said. They have a law. There is NO enforcement part at all.
Nothing, and Sweden is known to still have parent, a lot of them, that
spank.

>Part of this short article actually sounds like the
>Danes might be a bit sick of the "non spanking" hype also!

Sure, you hope. Is that were your are going to bugout to when the girl
gets old enough to come for you? Think you can find a needy mother
with child there to sponge off?

By the way, what were you doing before your current "fiance" for a
place to live, and pocket change?.

>"our laid-back, neutral, furniture-loving neighbour, where
>slapping a child is a criminal offence"

Is it? I'm not sure. I haven't read the law. In most places it's a
civil matter under no cp laws. In Sweden, as I've noted, it is NO
crime or offense at all. The law is a plea to stop the abuse of
spanking.

Smack upside their punkin' heads would be better. In fact if this
continues the Swedes may well go to amending that law.

I think I'll write. Why don't you write and try to counter me and get
the law repealled completely. I'd love to debate you publically,
dip****.

You made a lot of stupid assumptions given the limits of this article.

Normal for you.

Kane

>http://cphpost.sites.itera.dk/default.asp?id=34392
>Murder - Swedish style Copenhagen Post (Denmark) 14 September
>2003
>New Interpol international crime statistics revealed, rather
>surprisingly, that Sweden, our laid-back, neutral, furniture-loving
>neighbour, where slapping a child is a criminal offence, tops the
>European crime league in murder, serious assaults and robberies, and
>even surpasses the USA in violent crime. The murder rate in Sweden is
>three times as high as Denmark, four times as high as Norway, and
>twice as high as in the USA. In addition, Sweden has twice as many
sex
>crimes and robberies as this country and 25 times as many violent
>assaults. A Swedish National Crime Agency criminologist dismissed the
>Interpol figures as 'exaggerated.' 'They claim that there were 900
>murders here in 2001, but that also included suicides which have
>somehow ended up in the murder column. To say we have a higher murder
>rate than the USA is ridiculous,' he said.

Greg Hanson
September 25th 03, 11:41 AM
So the no-spank "success stories" from Scandinavia are bogus?
The no-spank WAGs have been bluffing a long time with that?
No wonder Doan was laughing his butt off!

Kane
September 25th 03, 06:02 PM
On 25 Sep 2003 03:41:25 -0700, (Greg Hanson)
wrote:

>So the no-spank "success stories" from Scandinavia are bogus?
>The no-spank WAGs have been bluffing a long time with that?
>No wonder Doan was laughing his butt off!

Yeah, I guess the NewZealanders, one of the more actively interested
research countries on such matter is lying, dawgonitanyways.

http://www.epochnz.org.nz/newsletter/6/sweden.shtml

The recent report of the effects of this ban is based on data from
official Swedish sources on: support for corporal punishment,
reporting of child physical assault, child abuse mortality,
prosecution rates, and interventions by social authorities. Findings
show that:

public support for corporal punishment has declined – it is now 11%

identification of children at risk has increased

child abuse mortality is rare

prosecution rates have remained steady – there has not been a greater
criminalisation of caregivers

social service interventions have become increasingly supportive and
preventive.

The author concludes that while it is likely that social policies and
demographic changes may have also contributed to the trends, she
reports it is clear that the original goals of the corporal punishment
ban have been met.
________________________

Awwww. Greegor losses his turn as towel boy at the local kindergarten
.....

Doan
September 29th 03, 05:53 PM
On 25 Sep 2003, Kane wrote:

> On 25 Sep 2003 03:41:25 -0700, (Greg Hanson)
> wrote:
>
> >So the no-spank "success stories" from Scandinavia are bogus?
> >The no-spank WAGs have been bluffing a long time with that?
> >No wonder Doan was laughing his butt off!
>
> Yeah, I guess the NewZealanders, one of the more actively interested
> research countries on such matter is lying, dawgonitanyways.
>
> http://www.epochnz.org.nz/newsletter/6/sweden.shtml
>
Now there is a reliable source! ;-) Why a second-hand report from an
organization with an agenda to ban spanking WORLDWIDE??? Why not post
the Durrant (1999) directly and see if it can stand to scientific
scrutiny? Do you expect organization like EPOCH New Zealand to give
you an unbiased truth? Why not give them the other side? Try this:
http://www.nkmr.org/english/sweden_data_does_not_support_success_claims.htm

> The recent report of the effects of this ban is based on data from
> official Swedish sources on: support for corporal punishment,
> reporting of child physical assault, child abuse mortality,
> prosecution rates, and interventions by social authorities. Findings
> show that:
>
> public support for corporal punishment has declined =96 it is now 11%
>
> identification of children at risk has increased
>
> child abuse mortality is rare
>
Did you know the author admitted that the analysis did not even reach
statistical significant? Did you read the orginal study yourself?
Child abuse mortality was rare in Sweden even before they passed their
anti-spanking law!

> prosecution rates have remained steady =96 there has not been a greater
> criminalisation of caregivers
>
> social service interventions have become increasingly supportive and
> preventive.
>
> The author concludes that while it is likely that social policies and
> demographic changes may have also contributed to the trends, she
> reports it is clear that the original goals of the corporal punishment
> ban have been met.

And this is propaganda, nothing less! Did she says what Sweden parents
do instead of spanking? How about yelling...oops "verbal conflict
resolution"!!!???

"Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely
on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most
commonly used is _verbal_conflict_resolution_, which invites parents as
well as children to express their anger in words. Parents insist that
discussions involve constant eye contact, even if this means taking firm
hold of young children to engage their attention. Parents and
professionals agree that discussions may escalate into yelling, or that
yelling may be a necessary trigger for discussion. Still, many point out
that while yelling may be humiliating, it is better than ignoring the
problem or containing the anger, and it is usually less humiliating than
physical punishment."

It is better to yell at your kid - just call it "verbal conflict
resolution"! ;-)

> ________________________
>
> Awwww. Greegor losses his turn as towel boy at the local kindergarten
> ....
>
And Kane9 just proved to the newsgroup what his character is! ;-)

Doan

LaVonne Carlson
October 2nd 03, 02:41 AM
What is this post about? Are you trying to respond to someone's post?
If so, please do not cut the attributes. The internet isn't a coffee
party. Not everyone has read or remembered every post, every thread, or
every comment you have made.

What no spank "success stories" from Scandinavia are you talking about?
Who are the "no-spank WAGs?" What have whoever these people are been
bluffing about?

LaVonne

Greg Hanson wrote:

> So the no-spank "success stories" from Scandinavia are bogus?
> The no-spank WAGs have been bluffing a long time with that?
> No wonder Doan was laughing his butt off!

Greg Hanson
October 3rd 03, 11:44 AM
LaVonne:
Please see the original thread:
Murder Swedish style & crime higher than you think
(You posted there yourself!)

If you look to the top poster in this thread you can
see who named this thread this way.
Unlike bureaucrats like you, most other people detest
needless duplication (quotation) of long threads.

To summarize though:

Fern posted a link to a Danish story about murder rates
in no-spank Sweden. The author even seemed to jibe
at Sweden a bit for the no-spank claim. One official
did state that the stats were wrong, including
suicides as murder.

Kane responded to this in his usual style, but one
precious gem was that he pointed out that Sweden
has no-spank laws, but no enforcement of them.

I jeered at the oft repeated example of how wonderful
no-spanking laws work and what good they have done.
Kane had exposed the big BLUFF about SWEDEN that
anti-spank zealots used for YEARS to enhance their myths.

More information was eventually added somewhere that
people in Sweden do a lot of YELLING at their kids.
Verbal problem resolution or some other label.

That is a very brief synopsis.

I'd like to add another thought that did not
come up regarding the original Danish story.
Do you think it was really an accident that
SUICIDE numbers got mixed in there?

LaVonne Carlson
October 6th 03, 01:50 AM
Greg,

What you need to do is retain the portion of the post to which you are
responding. It is your responsibility for clarifying posts, not the
readers. Original threads expire and/or are not on everyone's news
server.

But you called me a bureaucrat. Thank you, but what a hoot. On this
ng, I've been accused of working for CPS, of being a minister, of being
a child-abuser, of receiving government money for CPS reports, and some
other things I can't right now remember. But I've never been called a
bureaucrat.

How funny!

LaVonne

Greg Hanson wrote:

> LaVonne:
> Please see the original thread:
> Murder Swedish style & crime higher than you think
> (You posted there yourself!)
>
> If you look to the top poster in this thread you can
> see who named this thread this way.
> Unlike bureaucrats like you, most other people detest
> needless duplication (quotation) of long threads.
>
> To summarize though:
>
> Fern posted a link to a Danish story about murder rates
> in no-spank Sweden. The author even seemed to jibe
> at Sweden a bit for the no-spank claim. One official
> did state that the stats were wrong, including
> suicides as murder.
>
> Kane responded to this in his usual style, but one
> precious gem was that he pointed out that Sweden
> has no-spank laws, but no enforcement of them.
>
> I jeered at the oft repeated example of how wonderful
> no-spanking laws work and what good they have done.
> Kane had exposed the big BLUFF about SWEDEN that
> anti-spank zealots used for YEARS to enhance their myths.
>
> More information was eventually added somewhere that
> people in Sweden do a lot of YELLING at their kids.
> Verbal problem resolution or some other label.
>
> That is a very brief synopsis.
>
> I'd like to add another thought that did not
> come up regarding the original Danish story.
> Do you think it was really an accident that
> SUICIDE numbers got mixed in there?