morals?

[caroline godfrey]

My personal life just seems to be going from one bad move to another. My
now ex boyfriend and I split up in August just after his ex girlfriend had
their child, and obviously he went back to her. It's been 3 mths and I've
managed to keep well and trully away from him, except for when I work (I
work at the local club that he goes to). A group of us went out and hit the
town on Saturday night and stupid me went and slept with the guy, again.
I've been beating myself up now for two days. I even covered his ass with
his now girlfriend (mother of his child - not married by the way). I feel
like such a bitch. He says that he loves me and that he went back to this
girl because of his daughter being born. The mother of his child isn't
exactly the type of person who would take this in a rational adult fashion.
She would literally turn up at my house and belt the crap out of me, weather
my kids (4 and 2) were here or not. Now I don't know what to do. I love
this guy so much and we were really great together. I know I should have
said no, I know that I did the wrong thing - but I also know that I would do
it again. Am I being totally immoral here or is this just a really
complicated situation that I have to take one day at a time. I feel like
I'm losing my mind over this.

[Joelle]

> I love
>this guy so much and we were really great together.

No you don't love him and no you weren't great together. I bet if you think
real hard and are real honest, the sex wasn't even that great. You are just
lonely and scared of being in the world without a man to lean on. Well get
over it honey, your kids need you to be confident enough that you can raise
them and take care of them without some man in your bed.

> I know I should have
>said no, I know that I did the wrong thing - but I also know that I would do
>it again.

Well if you are that sure that you have absolutely no control, find some nice
relative to raise your kids for you because you are not fit to. How the hell
are your children supposed to learn anything about self-discipline,self respect
and self control if you can't even keep your legs together around some fool tom
cat who obviously can't keep it in his pants?


>Am I being totally immoral here or

Let's just take the whole morality question out of it and say YOU ARE BEING
STUPID.


> this just a really
>complicated situation that I have to take one day at a time.

No it's not complicated. If you really are this weak, get some counseling, get
some help or give your children to someone who has a little backbone.

>I feel like
>I'm losing my mind over this.

Maybe if you just stopped thinking about yourself for two seconds and thought
of what your children need you would get a clue.

Geesh, someone tell me this is a troll.

Joelle

[Celtic Castaway]

I know that pattern.... take a look at this info, and if it reminds you of
yourself then seek some professional help and stay away from any type of
relationship until you figure it out. Focus on your kids, need them as much
as they need you, and stay away from clubs... or any place where picking up
men and alcohol are combined...

Good Luck
CC

People with dependant personality go beyond the normal degree of
interdependence to allowing another person to take over major areas in their
lives. It is not unusual for people with this disorder to have another
personality disorder. They are also at a higher risk for developing major
depression, dysthymia, and anxiety disorders. There are no reliable
estimates to this disorder's prevalence. The major traits of dependant
personality disorder are:

Need for others to control their lives
They have difficulty in making decisions or initiating new projects on their
own. This is because they lack the self-confidence and trust in themselves,
not because they lack motivation or energy.

Submissive and clinging behavior
People with this disorder have problems expressing disagreement with others
because they fear the person will not like them or support them afterwards.

Fears of separation and abandonment
Individuals with dependant personality disorder have a strong need to be
taken care of. They will volunteer to do undesirable tasks to keep another
person 's affection and support. After a relationship ends, they may feel so
incapable, helpless, and alone that they will search for a new partner and
enter into a relationship with the first person to come along.

Lack of confidence in themselves and abilities
People with this disorder often belittle their own abilities and would
describe themselves as dumb or stupid. Because they doubt their own ability
to make decisions, they feel uncomfortable and helpless when no one is there
to take care of them. A person with this disorder will rarely initiate
projects or activities because they lack self-confidence in their judgement
or abilities.

Treatment
Psychotherapy is the primary treatment for dependant personality disorder.
Much of the time is spent teaching assertiveness skills, decision-making,
and developing independence using behavioral and cognitive techniques. Like
many of the personality disorders, a supportive therapeutic relationship is
vital. Within this relationship, the person with dependent personality
disorder will begin expressing their true feelings, make decisions, and deal
with episodes of anxiety. This will help to boost their self-esteem. Group
therapy can help them to develop supportive relationships and provide an
atmosphere to try their new social skills. Cognitive-behavioral therapy can
help them challenge negative self-thoughts.




"caroline godfrey" > wrote in message
...
> My personal life just seems to be going from one bad move to another. My
> now ex boyfriend and I split up in August just after his ex girlfriend had
> their child, and obviously he went back to her. It's been 3 mths and I've
> managed to keep well and trully away from him, except for when I work (I
> work at the local club that he goes to). A group of us went out and hit
the
> town on Saturday night and stupid me went and slept with the guy, again.
> I've been beating myself up now for two days. I even covered his ass with
> his now girlfriend (mother of his child - not married by the way). I feel
> like such a bitch. He says that he loves me and that he went back to this
> girl because of his daughter being born. The mother of his child isn't
> exactly the type of person who would take this in a rational adult
fashion.
> She would literally turn up at my house and belt the crap out of me,
weather
> my kids (4 and 2) were here or not. Now I don't know what to do. I love
> this guy so much and we were really great together. I know I should have
> said no, I know that I did the wrong thing - but I also know that I would
do
> it again. Am I being totally immoral here or is this just a really
> complicated situation that I have to take one day at a time. I feel like
> I'm losing my mind over this.
>
>



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 11/8/2003

[Joelle]

>one of these days, I'm going to learn how to use a spell checker.
><sigh> wright = write.

You were trying to get her to think about the "Right" thing to do...

Joelle

[Dennis Here]

caroline godfrey wrote in message ...

>My personal life just seems to be going from one bad move to another.

I know the feeling. For a while I adopted the motto
"Always in the ****, only the depth varies"

Snip the details

He does not love you.
He may have said as such and he will also have said the same to his
girlfriend. He will no doubt say it to any woman if he thinks there is a
fair chance of a shag.
He looks at life through the eye of his dick and confuses love with a
feeling he gets in his pants.
Looks like you are heading in the same direction.
If you want to be better than him then have a good long look at yourself and
concentrate on getting to a point where you are content purely on your own
account without the need to have someone else around.
The amazing thing is that when you get to that point, good decent people
will start to be attracted to you and you will be able to see right through
the dick heads.

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

Celtic Castaway wrote in message ...

>Cognitive-behavioral therapy can
>help them challenge negative self-thoughts.


Wow! What a lot of buzz words!
What does it mean?

Dennis

[caroline godfrey]

--
love you always caroline mwah
"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> caroline godfrey wrote in message ...
>
> >My personal life just seems to be going from one bad move to another.
>
> I know the feeling. For a while I adopted the motto
> "Always in the ****, only the depth varies"
>
> Snip the details
>
> He does not love you.
> He may have said as such and he will also have said the same to his
> girlfriend. He will no doubt say it to any woman if he thinks there is a
> fair chance of a shag.
> He looks at life through the eye of his dick and confuses love with a
> feeling he gets in his pants.
> Looks like you are heading in the same direction.
> If you want to be better than him then have a good long look at yourself
and
> concentrate on getting to a point where you are content purely on your own
> account without the need to have someone else around.
> The amazing thing is that when you get to that point, good decent people
> will start to be attracted to you and you will be able to see right
through
> the dick heads.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> Thanks Dennis. I know where you are coming from I just have to get my
head there. Thanks for not abusing me, lecturing me or telling me that I
have a psychological problem
Caroline

[Celtic Castaway]

<snip>
> Thanks Dennis. I know where you are coming from I just have to get my
> head there. Thanks for not abusing me, lecturing me or telling me that I
> have a psychological problem
> Caroline

Sorry Caroline, I didnt' mean my post to come across that way, I wasnt'
trying to say you have a psychological problem, it is just that your post
reminded me of myself, so I thought I'd share the info with you... DPD is a
problem that many people have, goes it is also highly missed diagnosed, or
just missed completely, it affects relationships a great deal, and most of
us who have it go from one bad relationship to another... No accusation,
just information.

CC



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 11/8/2003

[Celtic Castaway]

CBT is a type of talk therapy where you try to recondition patterns of
thoughts and subsequently behaviour, negative self thoughts are the one's
that keep us feeling bad about our selves and our choices, the "I'm not
_________" ie: good enough, pretty enough, etc...

CBT is also used in more than this application... depends on circumstance,
and person.

CC




"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> Celtic Castaway wrote in message ...
>
> >Cognitive-behavioral therapy can
> >help them challenge negative self-thoughts.
>
>
> Wow! What a lot of buzz words!
> What does it mean?
>
> Dennis
>
>



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 11/8/2003

[Celtic Castaway]

"Them" is me and lots more.. and what is it?

CC


<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:43:07 -0000, "Dennis Here"
> oureply>
> >
> >Celtic Castaway wrote in message ...
> >
> >>Cognitive-behavioral therapy can
> >>help them challenge negative self-thoughts.
> >
> >
> >Wow! What a lot of buzz words!
> >What does it mean?
> >
> >Dennis
> >
>
> hehe.... <raising hand> I know! I know! If you tell me who "them"
> are, I'll tell you what IT is.
>
> 'Kate
>



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 11/8/2003

[caroline godfrey]

I didn't realise that this group was about putting down other people. Don't
you think I feel bad enough as it is. And to have you turn around and say
that I should give my kids to someone else cause I have no back bone,
please, give me a break here. Just for the record my kids have only ever
met this guy a couple of times and they know him only as mummy's friend. My
kids mean the world to me and I would do anything for them, my personal life
does not affect them. And as for not having a back bone, you know nothing
about me or what I have been through. I have been on the run from my
children's father for nearly 3yrs, I have numerous violence orders placed on
his head and protection orders for me and my children. I've gone back to
full time University while still holding down two casual jobs and raising my
kids. You really should not start running people down without knowing them
or just because they have done something that you don't agree with.
caroline

--
love you always caroline mwah
"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
>
> > I love
> >this guy so much and we were really great together.
>
> No you don't love him and no you weren't great together. I bet if you
think
> real hard and are real honest, the sex wasn't even that great. You are
just
> lonely and scared of being in the world without a man to lean on. Well
get
> over it honey, your kids need you to be confident enough that you can
raise
> them and take care of them without some man in your bed.
>
> > I know I should have
> >said no, I know that I did the wrong thing - but I also know that I would
do
> >it again.
>
> Well if you are that sure that you have absolutely no control, find some
nice
> relative to raise your kids for you because you are not fit to. How the
hell
> are your children supposed to learn anything about self-discipline,self
respect
> and self control if you can't even keep your legs together around some
fool tom
> cat who obviously can't keep it in his pants?
>
>
> >Am I being totally immoral here or
>
> Let's just take the whole morality question out of it and say YOU ARE
BEING
> STUPID.
>
>
> > this just a really
> >complicated situation that I have to take one day at a time.
>
> No it's not complicated. If you really are this weak, get some
counseling, get
> some help or give your children to someone who has a little backbone.
>
> >I feel like
> >I'm losing my mind over this.
>
> Maybe if you just stopped thinking about yourself for two seconds and
thought
> of what your children need you would get a clue.
>
> Geesh, someone tell me this is a troll.
>
> Joelle

[caroline godfrey]

Thanks for the advice but I don't have a dependant personality. I am a very
strong person, I"ve had no choice but to be that way. My life revolves
around my children and doing the best I can to give them the life that they
deserve. The way that you have worded the first paragraph I don't think you
are on track. It is a very rare occurence if I happen to go out. And
drinking is something even rarer for me. I study full time, have two casual
jobs and I am raising two children, where on earth would I find the time to
go out. And besides that what is the problem with picking up occassionaly.
It's not like I would bring them home to my house with my children here, I
do have more brains than that. And as for having a lack of confidance in
myself and my abilities, no way. After what I have been through in the last
three years I have total confidence in my decisions, especially where it
concerns my children and their safety, and in my abilities as a mother. I
have goten my family from the gutter to a brand new four bedroom house by my
self. I am proud of what I have done for my kids and just because my
personal life is fckd doesnt mean that I am fckd as a human being.
caroline

--
love you always caroline mwah
"Celtic Castaway" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I know that pattern.... take a look at this info, and if it reminds you of
> yourself then seek some professional help and stay away from any type of
> relationship until you figure it out. Focus on your kids, need them as
much
> as they need you, and stay away from clubs... or any place where picking
up
> men and alcohol are combined...
>
> Good Luck
> CC
>
> People with dependant personality go beyond the normal degree of
> interdependence to allowing another person to take over major areas in
their
> lives. It is not unusual for people with this disorder to have another
> personality disorder. They are also at a higher risk for developing major
> depression, dysthymia, and anxiety disorders. There are no reliable
> estimates to this disorder's prevalence. The major traits of dependant
> personality disorder are:
>
> Need for others to control their lives
> They have difficulty in making decisions or initiating new projects on
their
> own. This is because they lack the self-confidence and trust in
themselves,
> not because they lack motivation or energy.
>
> Submissive and clinging behavior
> People with this disorder have problems expressing disagreement with
others
> because they fear the person will not like them or support them
afterwards.
>
> Fears of separation and abandonment
> Individuals with dependant personality disorder have a strong need to be
> taken care of. They will volunteer to do undesirable tasks to keep another
> person 's affection and support. After a relationship ends, they may feel
so
> incapable, helpless, and alone that they will search for a new partner and
> enter into a relationship with the first person to come along.
>
> Lack of confidence in themselves and abilities
> People with this disorder often belittle their own abilities and would
> describe themselves as dumb or stupid. Because they doubt their own
ability
> to make decisions, they feel uncomfortable and helpless when no one is
there
> to take care of them. A person with this disorder will rarely initiate
> projects or activities because they lack self-confidence in their
judgement
> or abilities.
>
> Treatment
> Psychotherapy is the primary treatment for dependant personality disorder.
> Much of the time is spent teaching assertiveness skills, decision-making,
> and developing independence using behavioral and cognitive techniques.
Like
> many of the personality disorders, a supportive therapeutic relationship
is
> vital. Within this relationship, the person with dependent personality
> disorder will begin expressing their true feelings, make decisions, and
deal
> with episodes of anxiety. This will help to boost their self-esteem. Group
> therapy can help them to develop supportive relationships and provide an
> atmosphere to try their new social skills. Cognitive-behavioral therapy
can
> help them challenge negative self-thoughts.
>
>
>
>
> "caroline godfrey" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My personal life just seems to be going from one bad move to another.
My
> > now ex boyfriend and I split up in August just after his ex girlfriend
had
> > their child, and obviously he went back to her. It's been 3 mths and
I've
> > managed to keep well and trully away from him, except for when I work (I
> > work at the local club that he goes to). A group of us went out and hit
> the
> > town on Saturday night and stupid me went and slept with the guy, again.
> > I've been beating myself up now for two days. I even covered his ass
with
> > his now girlfriend (mother of his child - not married by the way). I
feel
> > like such a bitch. He says that he loves me and that he went back to
this
> > girl because of his daughter being born. The mother of his child isn't
> > exactly the type of person who would take this in a rational adult
> fashion.
> > She would literally turn up at my house and belt the crap out of me,
> weather
> > my kids (4 and 2) were here or not. Now I don't know what to do. I
love
> > this guy so much and we were really great together. I know I should
have
> > said no, I know that I did the wrong thing - but I also know that I
would
> do
> > it again. Am I being totally immoral here or is this just a really
> > complicated situation that I have to take one day at a time. I feel
like
> > I'm losing my mind over this.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 11/8/2003
>
>

[Tiffany]

caroline godfrey > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the advice but I don't have a dependant personality. I am a
very
> strong person, I"ve had no choice but to be that way. My life revolves
> around my children and doing the best I can to give them the life that
they
> deserve. The way that you have worded the first paragraph I don't think
you
> are on track. It is a very rare occurence if I happen to go out. And
> drinking is something even rarer for me. I study full time, have two
casual
> jobs and I am raising two children, where on earth would I find the time
to
> go out. And besides that what is the problem with picking up
occassionaly.
> It's not like I would bring them home to my house with my children here, I
> do have more brains than that. And as for having a lack of confidance in
> myself and my abilities, no way. After what I have been through in the
last
> three years I have total confidence in my decisions, especially where it
> concerns my children and their safety, and in my abilities as a mother. I
> have goten my family from the gutter to a brand new four bedroom house by
my
> self. I am proud of what I have done for my kids and just because my
> personal life is fckd doesnt mean that I am fckd as a human being.
> caroline
>
> --


It may not be a problem picking up someone, as you said but it IS a problem
for you, right? That was your reason for the original post?? I do think if
that man did love you, well, he would be with you. But I am not a
relationship expert. As for your kids, trust me, they will one day know of
your actions. It always comes back to haunt you. I tell you this because as
I got older, the sins of my parents became known to me in various ways. Live
as though you have nothing to hide.

T

[Joelle]

>And to have you turn around and say
>that I should give my kids to someone else cause I have no back bone,

You are the one that said "I know I should not sleep with this guy but I'm
going to anyway." You are the one that told us you have no backbone. Do you
think that someone who doesn't even have control over her sex life should raise
children? Does that make you mad? Good. Get mad enough to get some control
over you life so that you can raise your kids.

>please, give me a break here.

No. Giving you a break has not helped you or your children.

>My
>kids mean the world to me and I would do anything for them, my personal life
>does not affect them.

Yes it does. If you have no control over your sex life, that effects them
whether they meet the guy or not.

>And as for not having a back bone, you know nothing
>about me

I know what you told us. You said you are going to have sex with a man even
though you don't want to. Does that sound like a backbone?

>I have been on the run from my
>children's father for nearly 3yrs

So this is not the first time you have given yourself to a man who is not
worthy of you.

>You really should not start running people down without knowing them
>or just because they have done something that you don't agree with.

So what the hell did you post for? For people to say "Oh you poor dear, you
can't help it if you sleep with men who wipe their shoes on you

I'm sure you have told your sordid tale to lots of girlfriends who have
sympathized and "supported" you. Did it stop you from getting involved with
abusive men? No. Maybe if someone tells you that if you can't control
yourself around men you should give up your children will make you FIGHT FOR
YOUR CHILDREN and show them you do have enough respect for yourself to stop
these stupid self-destructive patterns. Trust me, being weak and giving
yourself to men who are not right for you DOES effect your children.

Are you ****ed off at me? Does it **** you off that I say you are a pathetic
weak woman who cannot say no to any man that shows her a little attention?
Good. Prove me wrong. Kick that ******* out of your life.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Lisa aka Surfer]

"caroline godfrey" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks for the advice but I don't have a dependant personality. I am a
very
> strong person, I"ve had no choice but to be that way. My life revolves
> around my children and doing the best I can to give them the life that
they
> deserve. The way that you have worded the first paragraph I don't think
you
> are on track. It is a very rare occurence if I happen to go out. And
> drinking is something even rarer for me. I study full time, have two
casual
> jobs and I am raising two children, where on earth would I find the time
to
> go out. And besides that what is the problem with picking up
occassionaly.
> It's not like I would bring them home to my house with my children here, I
> do have more brains than that. And as for having a lack of confidance in
> myself and my abilities, no way. After what I have been through in the
last
> three years I have total confidence in my decisions, especially where it
> concerns my children and their safety, and in my abilities as a mother. I
> have goten my family from the gutter to a brand new four bedroom house by
my
> self. I am proud of what I have done for my kids and just because my
> personal life is fckd doesnt mean that I am fckd as a human being.
> caroline
>

For your sake, I hope that your casual tryst with your former boyfriend is
an isolated incident of poor choice. We know that he's fertile, given that
he is currently a new parent with some else. The last thing you need is to
get pregnant as well. That is integral in looking after your family "with
total confidence where it concerns your children, their safety and your
abilities as a mother"

Lisa

[Dennis Here]

caroline godfrey wrote in message ...
>>
>> Thanks Dennis. I know where you are coming from I just have to get my
>head there.

Yeah, no one ever said it was easy.

>Thanks for not abusing me, lecturing me or telling me that I
>have a psychological problem


What! for having a shag with an ex?
Now if you had said that George W Bush is the best president the USA has
ever had then I'd give you the works ;-)

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

Joelle wrote in message

>The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>Augustine


A great quote, never heard it before.
Think I'm about half way through the book and Freddie is well into the third
chapter.

Dennis

[Vickychick]

"caroline godfrey" > wrote in message >...
SNip
I feel like I'm losing my mind over this.

I am so sorry you have been put through this, but remember, you can
lose your mind, but not your soul or self respect.

Keep strong,
V

[lm]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:57:59 -0000, "Dennis Here"
oureply> wrote:

>
>caroline godfrey wrote in message ...
>>>
>>> Thanks Dennis. I know where you are coming from I just have to get my
>>head there.
>
>Yeah, no one ever said it was easy.
>
>>Thanks for not abusing me, lecturing me or telling me that I
>>have a psychological problem
>
>
>What! for having a shag with an ex?
>Now if you had said that George W Bush is the best president the USA has
>ever had then I'd give you the works ;-)

He's the best president ever appointed by the judiciary, howzat?

lm

[turtledove]

"lm" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:57:59 -0000, "Dennis Here"
> oureply> wrote:
>
>
> He's the best president ever appointed by the judiciary, howzat?
>
> lm

Hmmm...should I say it? Nah...

I can't help it...I have to say it

He's the best president money could buy....
Money can get you many things, but intelligence is NOT one of them

there, I said it....

*b :-)

"The folks who conducted to act on our country on September 11 made a big
mistake. They underestimated America. They underestimated our resolve, our
determination, our love for freedom. They misunderestimated the fact that
we love a neighbor in need. They misunderestimated the compassion of our
country. I think they misunderestimated the will and determination of the
commander in chief, too." --At the CIA, Langley, Virginia, September 26,
2001

and I have plenty more official quote where that came from....

[debra mirth]

Look at what you said. The other woman would show up at your house with your
kids there and belt youone. Is it worth it for your kids to see this or even
to put them in harm's way? There is someone out there for you that doesn't
have so much baggage.
caroline godfrey wrote in message ...
>My personal life just seems to be going from one bad move to another. My
>now ex boyfriend and I split up in August just after his ex girlfriend had
>their child, and obviously he went back to her. It's been 3 mths and I've
>managed to keep well and trully away from him, except for when I work (I
>work at the local club that he goes to). A group of us went out and hit
the
>town on Saturday night and stupid me went and slept with the guy, again.
>I've been beating myself up now for two days. I even covered his ass with
>his now girlfriend (mother of his child - not married by the way). I feel
>like such a bitch. He says that he loves me and that he went back to this
>girl because of his daughter being born. The mother of his child isn't
>exactly the type of person who would take this in a rational adult fashion.
>She would literally turn up at my house and belt the crap out of me,
weather
>my kids (4 and 2) were here or not. Now I don't know what to do. I love
>this guy so much and we were really great together. I know I should have
>said no, I know that I did the wrong thing - but I also know that I would
do
>it again. Am I being totally immoral here or is this just a really
>complicated situation that I have to take one day at a time. I feel like
>I'm losing my mind over this.
>
>

[Dennis Here]

lm wrote in message

>"Dennis Here" wrote:

>>Now if you had said that George W Bush is the best president the USA has
>>ever had then I'd give you the works ;-)
>
>He's the best president ever appointed by the judiciary, howzat?

If this is what his supposed allies think of him then what chance the rest
of the world?


ONE IN THREE BRITONS THINK BUSH IS STUPID - POLL Sat Nov 15 2003 19:43:02 ET

The full extent of the low regard Britons have for George Bush was tonight
revealed in a poll.

The US President was branded a threat to world peace by a clear majority,
60%, of those questioned by YouGov.

More than one in three, 37%, said Mr Bush was "stupid" while 33% called him
"incoherent".

Only a minority saw positive characteristics in Mr Bush, with just 7%
regarding him as a good world leader, 6% as articulate and 10% as
intelligent.

The findings are published in The Sunday Times ahead of his state visit to
Britain next week, the first by a US leader.

A slim majority of those questioned opposed the visit by 26% to 21% although
half did not care.

[Joelle]

>The press has done everything they can to portray him as dumb, despite the
>fact he has an MBA

Um, I'm not making any statments about Bush's intellegence but the fact that he
has an MBA proves nothing. There was a period where everyone seemed to be
getting one and it really didn't take much smarts.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[lm]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:56:36 -0000, "Dennis Here"
oureply> wrote:

>
>lm wrote in message
>
>>"Dennis Here" wrote:
>
>>>Now if you had said that George W Bush is the best president the USA has
>>>ever had then I'd give you the works ;-)
>>
>>He's the best president ever appointed by the judiciary, howzat?
>
>If this is what his supposed allies think of him then what chance the rest
>of the world?
>
>
>ONE IN THREE BRITONS THINK BUSH IS STUPID - POLL Sat Nov 15 2003 19:43:02 ET
>
>The full extent of the low regard Britons have for George Bush was tonight
>revealed in a poll.
>
>The US President was branded a threat to world peace by a clear majority,
>60%, of those questioned by YouGov.
>
>More than one in three, 37%, said Mr Bush was "stupid" while 33% called him
>"incoherent".
>
>Only a minority saw positive characteristics in Mr Bush, with just 7%
>regarding him as a good world leader, 6% as articulate and 10% as
>intelligent.
>
>The findings are published in The Sunday Times ahead of his state visit to
>Britain next week, the first by a US leader.
>
>A slim majority of those questioned opposed the visit by 26% to 21% although
>half did not care.

Come on, Dennis, I know you can do better than that. Aim at the
policies.

lm

[Paul Fritz]

"turtledove" > wrote in message
news:DXCtb.2117$vJ6.1124@fed1read05...
>
> "lm" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:57:59 -0000, "Dennis Here"
> > oureply> wrote:
> >
> >
> > He's the best president ever appointed by the judiciary, howzat?
> >
> > lm
>
> Hmmm...should I say it? Nah...
>
> I can't help it...I have to say it
>
> He's the best president money could buy....
> Money can get you many things, but intelligence is NOT one of them

Let's see.....he has a MBA, his opponent failed out of divinity school.

Every method of recount showed Bush won the election (the only way algore
would have won is if non votes had been counted - as in blank ballots ) ,
despite the all the spin



>
> there, I said it....
>
> *b :-)
>
> "The folks who conducted to act on our country on September 11 made a big
> mistake. They underestimated America. They underestimated our resolve,
our
> determination, our love for freedom. They misunderestimated the fact that
> we love a neighbor in need. They misunderestimated the compassion of our
> country. I think they misunderestimated the will and determination of the
> commander in chief, too." --At the CIA, Langley, Virginia, September 26,
> 2001
>
> and I have plenty more official quote where that came from....
>
>
>

[Paul Fritz]

The press has done everything they can to portray him as dumb, despite the
fact he has an MBA, but judging from what I have seen in the european press
in the past, I am not surprised by the hatred for the U.S. in general

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> lm wrote in message
>
> >"Dennis Here" wrote:
>
> >>Now if you had said that George W Bush is the best president the USA has
> >>ever had then I'd give you the works ;-)
> >
> >He's the best president ever appointed by the judiciary, howzat?
>
> If this is what his supposed allies think of him then what chance the rest
> of the world?
>
>
> ONE IN THREE BRITONS THINK BUSH IS STUPID - POLL Sat Nov 15 2003 19:43:02
ET
>
> The full extent of the low regard Britons have for George Bush was tonight
> revealed in a poll.
>
> The US President was branded a threat to world peace by a clear majority,
> 60%, of those questioned by YouGov.
>
> More than one in three, 37%, said Mr Bush was "stupid" while 33% called
him
> "incoherent".
>
> Only a minority saw positive characteristics in Mr Bush, with just 7%
> regarding him as a good world leader, 6% as articulate and 10% as
> intelligent.
>
> The findings are published in The Sunday Times ahead of his state visit to
> Britain next week, the first by a US leader.
>
> A slim majority of those questioned opposed the visit by 26% to 21%
although
> half did not care.
>
>
>
>

[Paul Fritz]

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> >The press has done everything they can to portray him as dumb, despite
the
> >fact he has an MBA
>
> Um, I'm not making any statments about Bush's intellegence but the fact
that he
> has an MBA proves nothing. There was a period where everyone seemed to be
> getting one and it really didn't take much smarts.

Not in an Ivy league school. I am not saying Bush is a rocket scientist,
but he is no dumb bunny either......he doesn't have the silver plated tongue
like slick willie had, but he is everything the liberal press hates.

>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

[Dennis Here]

Celtic Castaway wrote in message

>CBT is a type of talk therapy where you try to recondition patterns of
>thoughts and subsequently behaviour, negative self thoughts are the one's
>that keep us feeling bad about our selves and our choices, the "I'm not
>_________" ie: good enough, pretty enough, etc...


Ah! The half full, half empty outlook on life. Difficult to lead a full life
if you see yourself as empty.


You seem to be posting from Ireland?
Why not introduce yourself?

Dennis

[Celtic Castaway]

Actually I am in Canada... :-) 34 mother of two girls, who are 7 and almost
6. (14mths apart), work full time, volunteer, too busy to keep track of
myself sometimes.. separated 3 years in Apr 04 from a disinterested dad, was
awared sole custody by courts recently (yippee), and I am single. Born in
England, moved here when I was 11.

Where are you located.





"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> Celtic Castaway wrote in message
>
> >CBT is a type of talk therapy where you try to recondition patterns of
> >thoughts and subsequently behaviour, negative self thoughts are the one's
> >that keep us feeling bad about our selves and our choices, the "I'm not
> >_________" ie: good enough, pretty enough, etc...
>
>
> Ah! The half full, half empty outlook on life. Difficult to lead a full
life
> if you see yourself as empty.
>
>
> You seem to be posting from Ireland?
> Why not introduce yourself?
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>

[CME]

"Celtic Castaway" > wrote in message
...
> Actually I am in Canada... :-) 34 mother of two girls, who are 7 and
almost
> 6. (14mths apart), work full time, volunteer, too busy to keep track of
> myself sometimes.. separated 3 years in Apr 04 from a disinterested dad,
was
> awared sole custody by courts recently (yippee), and I am single. Born in
> England, moved here when I was 11.
>
> Where are you located.

Oh oh oh where in Canada??? Yeah another Canuck!!!

Christine

[Celtic Castaway]

Aurora, Ontario. How about you?

CC


"CME" > wrote in message
news:HzXub.63680$1K.38601@edtnps84...
>
> "Celtic Castaway" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Actually I am in Canada... :-) 34 mother of two girls, who are 7 and
> almost
> > 6. (14mths apart), work full time, volunteer, too busy to keep track of
> > myself sometimes.. separated 3 years in Apr 04 from a disinterested dad,
> was
> > awared sole custody by courts recently (yippee), and I am single. Born
in
> > England, moved here when I was 11.
> >
> > Where are you located.
>
> Oh oh oh where in Canada??? Yeah another Canuck!!!
>
> Christine
>
>

[Dennis Here]

Celtic Castaway wrote in message ...
>Actually I am in Canada... :-) 34 mother of two girls, who are 7 and
almost
>6. (14mths apart), work full time, volunteer, too busy to keep track of
>myself sometimes.. separated 3 years in Apr 04 from a disinterested dad,
was
>awared sole custody by courts recently (yippee), and I am single. Born in
>England, moved here when I was 11.
>
>Where are you located.


Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
Three boys, 29, 27 and 7! I too was born in England and lived in Devon for
most of my life. Moved here 13 years ago.
I also have sole custody of my 7 yo. Work full time and get well paid for
it. I also had a disinterested ex for the first three years but it gradually
changed and she now plays an active role in her sons life.

Dennis

[CME]

"Celtic Castaway" > wrote in message
...
> Aurora, Ontario. How about you?
>
> CC
>

Edmonton, Alberta... yep, I'm a westerner. lol

Christine

[dolores]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> lm wrote in message
>
> >"Dennis Here" wrote:
>
> >>Now if you had said that George W Bush is the best president the USA has
> >>ever had then I'd give you the works ;-)
> >
> >He's the best president ever appointed by the judiciary, howzat?
>
> If this is what his supposed allies think of him then what chance the rest
> of the world?
>
>
> ONE IN THREE BRITONS THINK BUSH IS STUPID - POLL Sat Nov 15 2003 19:43:02
ET
>
> The full extent of the low regard Britons have for George Bush was tonight
> revealed in a poll.
>
> The US President was branded a threat to world peace by a clear majority,
> 60%, of those questioned by YouGov.
>
> More than one in three, 37%, said Mr Bush was "stupid" while 33% called
him
> "incoherent".

What was that phrase he used....."Known unknowns".....or something to that
effect...... And this is the guy in charge of the US......Makes me wonder
why I even bother sending my kids to school......"Dont worry about school
lads, sure if all else fails ye can be president of the US!!....ya dont need
an education fer that".....

Dolores
>
>
>
>
>

[Jaques d'Alltrades]

The message >
from "dolores" > contains these words:

> > "incoherent".

> What was that phrase he used....."Known unknowns".....or something to that
> effect...... And this is the guy in charge of the US......Makes me wonder
> why I even bother sending my kids to school......"Dont worry about school
> lads, sure if all else fails ye can be president of the US!!....ya dont need
> an education fer that".....

That was Rumsfelt, not Bush.

And contrary to the beliefs of those who sneered at the statement, it
made perfect sense and conveyed a very valid message.

Bush isn't thick either: though he's a very poor verbaliser - or do I
mean verbalisationicator?

Most presidents (and prime ministers) get stick of some sort. Opponents
said of Gerry Ford that he couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.

On being informed that Calvin Coolidge was dead, Dorothy parker asked:
"How can they tell?"

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)