Ok, I know what I should do... But... It's not that simple...

[kat]

Well, I have this real good friend, who lives in Calgary, who's been having
some problems.
Quick rundown on her: She's 27 (next month) on her second marriage (her
husband was killed 2 years ago yesterday, actually) and her second marriage
only happend in June when she found out she was pregnant by her good friend,
who was best man at her first wedding. (I believe they were both drunk, and
it was a one night stand type thing)
So... She got married June, he's a useless piece of **** that I never cared
much for from the start. This September, **** happened, to keep the story
short, and she kicked him out of her house. (She has money, a good job, her
own house, cars, etc., and he has very little as far as life goes -
gambling, cars and bars is his life, it seems) She's been staying, since
September, mostly at her grandparents' place, here in Edmonton.
2 weeks ago, we went out together, then the next day she called me cause she
was having these babies right away, and I rushed to the other side of the
city, picked her up and took her to the hospital, and even stayed with her
for most of the time she was there. She had her babies 2 weeks ago on
Sunday (twin boys) and, from what I've seen directly, is a useless piece of
**** herself.
Again, she's been staying at her grandparents' place, and they're both older
than Moses, and on many, many occasions, over the past 2 weeks, has called
me up in the middle of the night, crying herself and all I could hear was
these babies screaming in the background. Every time I've told her to come
over to my place and I'd help her out. She stayed here the first time for 4
days, and I did my best to try and get both these babies on some type of a
schedule of feeding and sleeping that would be easier on her (even though
I'm sure we all know babies like to keep their own crazy schedules) I ended
up being able to have both babies sleep around the same times and get up to
eat around the same times, and I gave her a night where she could get some
sleep and I could get up in the middle of the night. (To me, this seems no
different than a couple both taking turns with feedings and all that, and I
didn't mind)
Now I am starting to mind. She's been coming over more and more and she
sleeps all day and all night, it seems, and I've been stuck doing her
parenting responsibilities.
I know, in a way, I've put myself in this position, and I know I should tell
her to grow up and be responsible for her own children, but I also know what
it's like to take care of a child with no one else around, and I know how
damn hard it was with one infant, and at the time, I could only imagine what
it would be like with 2, and especially her and the way she is.
It got so bad for me, with her just sleeping all day and night, that I would
put both babies on the floor in the bouncy chairs while she slept on the
couch, hoping as they cried that she would wake up and do something, but
there's only so much screaming I can take, and she just seems to sleep right
through it and ignores it. One day, I had LOTS of running around to do all
over the city, and she wouldn't get up, so I had to pack off all these kids
into the car and haul them around with me as I ran errands, and she had just
woken up shortly before I got home - hours later.
This is driving me insane. I DO know I should boot her ass out and tell her
to call me when she wants some HELP every now and then, not when she wants
me to raise her children while she sleeps all day and night. These babies
are almost 2 weeks old, and really, I think they've been seeing my face more
than their own mother's, and at 2 weeks old, I do not think that what she is
doing is right, or at any age, really. I know I should tell her I don't
mind watching them if she wants a night out or a bit of time to herself, but
really, it's been 2 weeks and she's already wanting time to herself without
worries??
Seriously, I know what I should be doing, but I also know that standing by
and knowing they'll be neglected is even worse, and really, the last things
I want is for her to neglect or ignore them, or to call child welfare and
have them take them away. I feel like I'm babysitting an adult child, as
well as 2 extra infants, but I just feel like I'm so trapped...
I know this is stupid, and yes, I made my own bed, but really, what would
you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
lose-lose situation?

[Joelle]

>what would
>you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
>lose-lose situation?

I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really you have to
think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't going to
raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what is best
for the children and it should be a little less complicated.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[kat]

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> >what would
> >you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
> >lose-lose situation?
>
> I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really you
have to
> think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't
going to
> raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what is
best
> for the children and it should be a little less complicated.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for them.
I don't think bouncing around from foster home to foster home is better at
all. I cannot place them for adoption, nor can I seem to get through to her
and make her see what I'm sure she knows she should do.
I'm even getting to the point where I've been debating on calling that idiot
father and telling him to get his act together. She doesn't want him around
until he can stop drinking, and I agree with her 100% there. As much as I
don't like that fool, I do think he'd make a damn good dad, IF he can
control his drinking, because he's not that bad of a guy under normal
circumstances, there's just something about him I don't like (maybe
personality clash?) and he WANTS to see his kids. I don't know if I should
contact him and see what is going on or not.
It's just the little things... Instead of sleeping at night when I'm willing
to get up, and getting up in the day when I'm up as well and trying to learn
things or see what might or might not work for her, she's just... I don't
know... I was feeding them laying down on my bed, half watching TV with one
on each side of me with them laying the opposite direction I was and holding
bottles in each mouth, and she came in, saying that the nurse at the
hospital had told her she should hold the babies when feeding them... I lost
it and told her that she should then be holding her babies to feed them, and
how it's impossible, for me, to bottle feed them both at the same time while
holding one in each arm (obviously it's easier to hold both with a boob in
each mouth) but holding 2 bottles and 2 babies with only 2 arms was just
impossible. She got mad when I told her that she should then take the
advice of the nurse at the hospital and hold her babies to feed them. It's
just really nuts...

[Tiffany]

kat > wrote in message
news:AKVvb.19452$IZ1.15490@edtnps84...
>
> "Joelle" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >what would
> > >you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
> > >lose-lose situation?
> >
> > I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really you
> have to
> > think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't
> going to
> > raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what
is
> best
> > for the children and it should be a little less complicated.
> >
> > Joelle
> > The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> > Augustine
> > Joelle
>
> Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for
them.
> I don't think bouncing around from foster home to foster home is better at
> all. I cannot place them for adoption, nor can I seem to get through to
her
> and make her see what I'm sure she knows she should do.
> I'm even getting to the point where I've been debating on calling that
idiot
> father and telling him to get his act together. She doesn't want him
around
> until he can stop drinking, and I agree with her 100% there. As much as I
> don't like that fool, I do think he'd make a damn good dad, IF he can
> control his drinking, because he's not that bad of a guy under normal
> circumstances, there's just something about him I don't like (maybe
> personality clash?) and he WANTS to see his kids. I don't know if I
should
> contact him and see what is going on or not.
> It's just the little things... Instead of sleeping at night when I'm
willing
> to get up, and getting up in the day when I'm up as well and trying to
learn
> things or see what might or might not work for her, she's just... I don't
> know... I was feeding them laying down on my bed, half watching TV with
one
> on each side of me with them laying the opposite direction I was and
holding
> bottles in each mouth, and she came in, saying that the nurse at the
> hospital had told her she should hold the babies when feeding them... I
lost
> it and told her that she should then be holding her babies to feed them,
and
> how it's impossible, for me, to bottle feed them both at the same time
while
> holding one in each arm (obviously it's easier to hold both with a boob in
> each mouth) but holding 2 bottles and 2 babies with only 2 arms was just
> impossible. She got mad when I told her that she should then take the
> advice of the nurse at the hospital and hold her babies to feed them.
It's
> just really nuts...
>
>

She is taking advantage of you. Explain to her how YOU have been raising the
babies, the schedule YOU have tried to get the babies on, ect and tell her
ass to go home. Tough love type thing..... some people will very easily let
someone else do their work for them. If it wasn't you, it would have been
Grandma or someone else. Let her know you are still there for her but that
she will also have to work through the tough times, just like any mother
did. And yes, I am sure being a single mother of twins is hard but it sounds
like she has gotten a lot of sleep. She should be more prepared then most
parents ever are. lol

T

[CME]

"kat" > wrote in message
news:vnVvb.19182$IZ1.13878@edtnps84...
> Well, I have this real good friend, who lives in Calgary, who's been
having
> some problems.
> Quick rundown on her: She's 27 (next month) on her second marriage (her
> husband was killed 2 years ago yesterday, actually) and her second
marriage
> only happend in June when she found out she was pregnant by her good
friend,
> who was best man at her first wedding. (I believe they were both drunk,
and
> it was a one night stand type thing)
> So... She got married June, he's a useless piece of **** that I never
cared
> much for from the start. This September, **** happened, to keep the story
> short, and she kicked him out of her house. (She has money, a good job,
her
> own house, cars, etc., and he has very little as far as life goes -
> gambling, cars and bars is his life, it seems) She's been staying, since
> September, mostly at her grandparents' place, here in Edmonton.
> 2 weeks ago, we went out together, then the next day she called me cause
she
> was having these babies right away, and I rushed to the other side of the
> city, picked her up and took her to the hospital, and even stayed with her
> for most of the time she was there. She had her babies 2 weeks ago on
> Sunday (twin boys) and, from what I've seen directly, is a useless piece
of
> **** herself.
> Again, she's been staying at her grandparents' place, and they're both
older
> than Moses, and on many, many occasions, over the past 2 weeks, has called
> me up in the middle of the night, crying herself and all I could hear was
> these babies screaming in the background. Every time I've told her to
come
> over to my place and I'd help her out. She stayed here the first time for
4
> days, and I did my best to try and get both these babies on some type of a
> schedule of feeding and sleeping that would be easier on her (even though
> I'm sure we all know babies like to keep their own crazy schedules) I
ended
> up being able to have both babies sleep around the same times and get up
to
> eat around the same times, and I gave her a night where she could get some
> sleep and I could get up in the middle of the night. (To me, this seems
no
> different than a couple both taking turns with feedings and all that, and
I
> didn't mind)
> Now I am starting to mind. She's been coming over more and more and she
> sleeps all day and all night, it seems, and I've been stuck doing her
> parenting responsibilities.
> I know, in a way, I've put myself in this position, and I know I should
tell
> her to grow up and be responsible for her own children, but I also know
what
> it's like to take care of a child with no one else around, and I know how
> damn hard it was with one infant, and at the time, I could only imagine
what
> it would be like with 2, and especially her and the way she is.
> It got so bad for me, with her just sleeping all day and night, that I
would
> put both babies on the floor in the bouncy chairs while she slept on the
> couch, hoping as they cried that she would wake up and do something, but
> there's only so much screaming I can take, and she just seems to sleep
right
> through it and ignores it. One day, I had LOTS of running around to do
all
> over the city, and she wouldn't get up, so I had to pack off all these
kids
> into the car and haul them around with me as I ran errands, and she had
just
> woken up shortly before I got home - hours later.
> This is driving me insane. I DO know I should boot her ass out and tell
her
> to call me when she wants some HELP every now and then, not when she wants
> me to raise her children while she sleeps all day and night. These
babies
> are almost 2 weeks old, and really, I think they've been seeing my face
more
> than their own mother's, and at 2 weeks old, I do not think that what she
is
> doing is right, or at any age, really. I know I should tell her I don't
> mind watching them if she wants a night out or a bit of time to herself,
but
> really, it's been 2 weeks and she's already wanting time to herself
without
> worries??
> Seriously, I know what I should be doing, but I also know that standing by
> and knowing they'll be neglected is even worse, and really, the last
things
> I want is for her to neglect or ignore them, or to call child welfare and
> have them take them away. I feel like I'm babysitting an adult child, as
> well as 2 extra infants, but I just feel like I'm so trapped...
> I know this is stupid, and yes, I made my own bed, but really, what would
> you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
> lose-lose situation?
>

Well from someone who was 19 and had twin boys on my own... I can see how
hard it is for her and without the help of my parents I would have gone
insane. However, they offered emotional support and an occasional extra set
of arms, *I* was responsible for raising them. Your friend may be depressed
and should see someone... but you need to have a heart to heart with this
woman. She's 27 years old and she decided to keep these babies and it's HER
job to raise them, not yours. So quit enabling her. She needs to get her
**** together and fast for her sake as well as those kids. You are a good
friend, Kat and she's lucky you're there for her, but don't be there for her
so much that she uses you.

Christine

[kat]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> kat > wrote in message
> news:AKVvb.19452$IZ1.15490@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Joelle" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >what would
> > > >you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in
a
> > > >lose-lose situation?
> > >
> > > I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really
you
> > have to
> > > think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't
> > going to
> > > raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what
> is
> > best
> > > for the children and it should be a little less complicated.
> > >
> > > Joelle
> > > The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page -
St
> > > Augustine
> > > Joelle
> >
> > Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for
> them.
> > I don't think bouncing around from foster home to foster home is better
at
> > all. I cannot place them for adoption, nor can I seem to get through to
> her
> > and make her see what I'm sure she knows she should do.
> > I'm even getting to the point where I've been debating on calling that
> idiot
> > father and telling him to get his act together. She doesn't want him
> around
> > until he can stop drinking, and I agree with her 100% there. As much as
I
> > don't like that fool, I do think he'd make a damn good dad, IF he can
> > control his drinking, because he's not that bad of a guy under normal
> > circumstances, there's just something about him I don't like (maybe
> > personality clash?) and he WANTS to see his kids. I don't know if I
> should
> > contact him and see what is going on or not.
> > It's just the little things... Instead of sleeping at night when I'm
> willing
> > to get up, and getting up in the day when I'm up as well and trying to
> learn
> > things or see what might or might not work for her, she's just... I
don't
> > know... I was feeding them laying down on my bed, half watching TV with
> one
> > on each side of me with them laying the opposite direction I was and
> holding
> > bottles in each mouth, and she came in, saying that the nurse at the
> > hospital had told her she should hold the babies when feeding them... I
> lost
> > it and told her that she should then be holding her babies to feed them,
> and
> > how it's impossible, for me, to bottle feed them both at the same time
> while
> > holding one in each arm (obviously it's easier to hold both with a boob
in
> > each mouth) but holding 2 bottles and 2 babies with only 2 arms was just
> > impossible. She got mad when I told her that she should then take the
> > advice of the nurse at the hospital and hold her babies to feed them.
> It's
> > just really nuts...
> >
> >
>
> She is taking advantage of you. Explain to her how YOU have been raising
the
> babies, the schedule YOU have tried to get the babies on, ect and tell her
> ass to go home. Tough love type thing..... some people will very easily
let
> someone else do their work for them. If it wasn't you, it would have been
> Grandma or someone else. Let her know you are still there for her but that
> she will also have to work through the tough times, just like any mother
> did. And yes, I am sure being a single mother of twins is hard but it
sounds
> like she has gotten a lot of sleep. She should be more prepared then most
> parents ever are. lol
>
> T

She's just a spoiled brat. She's a triplet, and all three of them are
spoiled rotten, but she's the worst one. Her grandparents don't help much,
I know, mainly because they have to be at least 218 years old, maybe 219. I
don't think grandparents should be expected to raise their grandchildren if
the parent(s) are perfectly capable of doing so. A spoiled rotten brat
doesn't count as being incapable. The only reason she's staying at her
grandparents' place is because of the whole problems with him thing. So
yes, her house is sitting empty right now.
Just a few mins ago, I told her tomorrow morning to go home, be it her
grandparents' place or her own house. I was going to tell her to leave
right now, but it's already almost 9:30 at night, and dark and cold out.
Tomorrow morning is fine with me, and I think I made my point clear earlier
because she didn't get mad at me. She gave me the whole crying bit about
she doesn't know what to do, and when I asked her what she figured I was
doing for, basically, the better part of the last 2 weeks, she had no
answer.
She has my number. She knows where I live. She knows she can find me if
she needs, but before I even came here, I told her that I'm sick of this and
can't handle it right now.
I did my best to try and get some workable schedule out, and tonight, she is
getting up with me every time the babies do and I'll show her exactly what
I've been doing and exactly how I've been doing it, and she can either take
it or leave it.
I can handle another night because I know that's all it's going to be. I'm
done with babies, but every now and then it's a nice change and fun, until
it turns into day after day after day.
I just feel bad for kicking her out, but really, I can't have a million
people living with me, nor do I have the space or time for it... I just feel
bad about it all, yet I can't really pinpoint why...

[Tiffany]

kat > wrote in message
news:JRWvb.20928$IZ1.17706@edtnps84...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > kat > wrote in message
> > news:AKVvb.19452$IZ1.15490@edtnps84...
> > >
> > > "Joelle" > wrote in message
> > > ...


> I just feel bad for kicking her out, but really, I can't have a million
> people living with me, nor do I have the space or time for it... I just
feel
> bad about it all, yet I can't really pinpoint why...
>

Don't feel bad for 'kicking' her out! Hun, she has 2 places to go! Were she
homeless, that would be another story. Don't sweat it..... enjoy your last
night with the babies.

T

[Joy]

"kat" > wrote in message
news:AKVvb.19452$IZ1.15490@edtnps84...
>
> "Joelle" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >what would
> > >you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
> > >lose-lose situation?
> >
> > I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really you
> have to
> > think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't
> going to
> > raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what
is
> best
> > for the children and it should be a little less complicated.
> >
> > Joelle
> > The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> > Augustine
> > Joelle
>
> Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for
them.
> I don't think bouncing around from foster home to foster home is better at
> all. I cannot place them for adoption, nor can I seem to get through to
her
> and make her see what I'm sure she knows she should do.

Could she possibly have a case of post-partum depression? If so, maybe
appropriate treatment would make a big difference. Not that this is your
responsibility either - but maybe it would help to suggest she talk to her
doctor about the possibility.
Joy

[kat]

"Joy" <fairly_happy_doesn't_need_any_more_spam@withoutspa myahoo.com> wrote
in message .. .
>
> "kat" > wrote in message
> news:AKVvb.19452$IZ1.15490@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Joelle" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >what would
> > > >you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in
a
> > > >lose-lose situation?
> > >
> > > I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really
you
> > have to
> > > think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't
> > going to
> > > raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what
> is
> > best
> > > for the children and it should be a little less complicated.
> > >
> > > Joelle
> > > The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page -
St
> > > Augustine
> > > Joelle
> >
> > Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for
> them.
> > I don't think bouncing around from foster home to foster home is better
at
> > all. I cannot place them for adoption, nor can I seem to get through to
> her
> > and make her see what I'm sure she knows she should do.
>
> Could she possibly have a case of post-partum depression? If so, maybe
> appropriate treatment would make a big difference. Not that this is your
> responsibility either - but maybe it would help to suggest she talk to her
> doctor about the possibility.
> Joy

No, I don't really think that's the case. I do believe she just has a case
of spoiled-bratism, and that's been with her since the day she was born.
She's always been the one who was most spoiled, Daddy's Girl, and all she
had to ever do, and still does, is look at something, bat her eyelashes and
it's hers. Maybe she IS depressed, but I think it's more along the lines of
her realizing, slowly, that she's not the only person in this world, and
that the earth doesn't revolve around HER only...

[kat]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:2JWvb.20658$IZ1.7854@edtnps84...
>
> "kat" > wrote in message
> news:vnVvb.19182$IZ1.13878@edtnps84...
> > Well, I have this real good friend, who lives in Calgary, who's been
> having
> > some problems.
> > Quick rundown on her: She's 27 (next month) on her second marriage (her
> > husband was killed 2 years ago yesterday, actually) and her second
> marriage
> > only happend in June when she found out she was pregnant by her good
> friend,
> > who was best man at her first wedding. (I believe they were both drunk,
> and
> > it was a one night stand type thing)
> > So... She got married June, he's a useless piece of **** that I never
> cared
> > much for from the start. This September, **** happened, to keep the
story
> > short, and she kicked him out of her house. (She has money, a good job,
> her
> > own house, cars, etc., and he has very little as far as life goes -
> > gambling, cars and bars is his life, it seems) She's been staying,
since
> > September, mostly at her grandparents' place, here in Edmonton.
> > 2 weeks ago, we went out together, then the next day she called me cause
> she
> > was having these babies right away, and I rushed to the other side of
the
> > city, picked her up and took her to the hospital, and even stayed with
her
> > for most of the time she was there. She had her babies 2 weeks ago on
> > Sunday (twin boys) and, from what I've seen directly, is a useless piece
> of
> > **** herself.
> > Again, she's been staying at her grandparents' place, and they're both
> older
> > than Moses, and on many, many occasions, over the past 2 weeks, has
called
> > me up in the middle of the night, crying herself and all I could hear
was
> > these babies screaming in the background. Every time I've told her to
> come
> > over to my place and I'd help her out. She stayed here the first time
for
> 4
> > days, and I did my best to try and get both these babies on some type of
a
> > schedule of feeding and sleeping that would be easier on her (even
though
> > I'm sure we all know babies like to keep their own crazy schedules) I
> ended
> > up being able to have both babies sleep around the same times and get up
> to
> > eat around the same times, and I gave her a night where she could get
some
> > sleep and I could get up in the middle of the night. (To me, this seems
> no
> > different than a couple both taking turns with feedings and all that,
and
> I
> > didn't mind)
> > Now I am starting to mind. She's been coming over more and more and she
> > sleeps all day and all night, it seems, and I've been stuck doing her
> > parenting responsibilities.
> > I know, in a way, I've put myself in this position, and I know I should
> tell
> > her to grow up and be responsible for her own children, but I also know
> what
> > it's like to take care of a child with no one else around, and I know
how
> > damn hard it was with one infant, and at the time, I could only imagine
> what
> > it would be like with 2, and especially her and the way she is.
> > It got so bad for me, with her just sleeping all day and night, that I
> would
> > put both babies on the floor in the bouncy chairs while she slept on the
> > couch, hoping as they cried that she would wake up and do something, but
> > there's only so much screaming I can take, and she just seems to sleep
> right
> > through it and ignores it. One day, I had LOTS of running around to do
> all
> > over the city, and she wouldn't get up, so I had to pack off all these
> kids
> > into the car and haul them around with me as I ran errands, and she had
> just
> > woken up shortly before I got home - hours later.
> > This is driving me insane. I DO know I should boot her ass out and tell
> her
> > to call me when she wants some HELP every now and then, not when she
wants
> > me to raise her children while she sleeps all day and night. These
> babies
> > are almost 2 weeks old, and really, I think they've been seeing my face
> more
> > than their own mother's, and at 2 weeks old, I do not think that what
she
> is
> > doing is right, or at any age, really. I know I should tell her I don't
> > mind watching them if she wants a night out or a bit of time to herself,
> but
> > really, it's been 2 weeks and she's already wanting time to herself
> without
> > worries??
> > Seriously, I know what I should be doing, but I also know that standing
by
> > and knowing they'll be neglected is even worse, and really, the last
> things
> > I want is for her to neglect or ignore them, or to call child welfare
and
> > have them take them away. I feel like I'm babysitting an adult child,
as
> > well as 2 extra infants, but I just feel like I'm so trapped...
> > I know this is stupid, and yes, I made my own bed, but really, what
would
> > you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
> > lose-lose situation?
> >
>
> Well from someone who was 19 and had twin boys on my own... I can see how
> hard it is for her and without the help of my parents I would have gone
> insane.

Her parents live in New Jersey, but I do wonder where all her "cool" and
"fun" friends are anyways... Her brother and sister both live in Calgary,
and her brother has a little girl of his own, and she's gotta be about 5 by
now, and although her grandparents are kind of useless in the actual hands
on part of helping, I know them, and well, and they are definitely very
supportive in every other way, so it's not like she has absolutely NO ONE at
all.

> However, they offered emotional support and an occasional extra set
> of arms, *I* was responsible for raising them.

I, half jokingly, suggested she should hire some kind of nanny or something.
She has enough money to hire nannies for every one of us here, with a bit of
extra money to throw around after that, and I think she actually took my
suggestion, which was basically a joke she must have missed, somewhat
seriously. Maybe that is a good thing, but then again, she just might pass
her responsibilities onto someone else, but then, at least, they'd be cared
for, with her still actually there.

> Your friend may be depressed
> and should see someone...

I think just spoiled, as I said somewhere up a bit in this thread... She
should see someone alright... Believe me, I know this already, although I'd
be hesitant to believe it would have anything to do with depression...

> but you need to have a heart to heart with this
> woman.

Oh yea, heart to heart conversations with her turn into pure stupidity. She
sort of does the, "I heard you, but really, I only heard what I want to, and
the rest is all just silly talk if I didn't like what you had to say." For
being such a smart, intelligent and sharp person, she has such a head full
of bubbles that I hope pop and turn into brain cells really, really soon.

> She's 27 years old and she decided to keep these babies and it's HER
> job to raise them, not yours. So quit enabling her. She needs to get her
> **** together and fast for her sake as well as those kids.

I know this, and I think she does too. I looked up some numbers for places
that offer classes and support for new mothers, and I put the paper I
printed off on her head when she was sleeping... Half an hour ago, when I
went downstairs, the paper was still on her face... lol Maybe she'll get my
point? Again, I don't think she's depressed at all. I think she just
totally lacks the parenting skills that many might pick up from their own
parents, and the natural mothering skills are lost somewhere between her
video gaming skills and her car racing skills...

> You are a good
> friend, Kat and she's lucky you're there for her, but don't be there for
her
> so much that she uses you.

I tried my best, thinking I was helping, but now it seems that I've done
more damage and let it happen.

> Christine
>
>

[Betsy]

"kat" > wrote in message
news:vnVvb.19182$IZ1.13878@edtnps84...
> Well, I have this real good friend, who lives in Calgary, who's been
having
> some problems.
> Quick rundown on her: She's 27 (next month) on her second marriage (her
> husband was killed 2 years ago yesterday, actually) and her second
marriage
> only happend in June when she found out she was pregnant by her good
friend,
> who was best man at her first wedding. (I believe they were both drunk,
and
> it was a one night stand type thing)
> So... She got married June, he's a useless piece of **** that I never
cared
> much for from the start. This September, **** happened, to keep the story
> short, and she kicked him out of her house. (She has money, a good job,
her
> own house, cars, etc., and he has very little as far as life goes -
> gambling, cars and bars is his life, it seems) She's been staying, since
> September, mostly at her grandparents' place, here in Edmonton.
> 2 weeks ago, we went out together, then the next day she called me cause
she
> was having these babies right away, and I rushed to the other side of the
> city, picked her up and took her to the hospital, and even stayed with her
> for most of the time she was there. She had her babies 2 weeks ago on
> Sunday (twin boys) and, from what I've seen directly, is a useless piece
of
> **** herself.
> Again, she's been staying at her grandparents' place, and they're both
older
> than Moses, and on many, many occasions, over the past 2 weeks, has called
> me up in the middle of the night, crying herself and all I could hear was
> these babies screaming in the background. Every time I've told her to
come
> over to my place and I'd help her out. She stayed here the first time for
4
> days, and I did my best to try and get both these babies on some type of a
> schedule of feeding and sleeping that would be easier on her (even though
> I'm sure we all know babies like to keep their own crazy schedules) I
ended
> up being able to have both babies sleep around the same times and get up
to
> eat around the same times, and I gave her a night where she could get some
> sleep and I could get up in the middle of the night. (To me, this seems
no
> different than a couple both taking turns with feedings and all that, and
I
> didn't mind)
> Now I am starting to mind. She's been coming over more and more and she
> sleeps all day and all night, it seems, and I've been stuck doing her
> parenting responsibilities.
> I know, in a way, I've put myself in this position, and I know I should
tell
> her to grow up and be responsible for her own children, but I also know
what
> it's like to take care of a child with no one else around, and I know how
> damn hard it was with one infant, and at the time, I could only imagine
what
> it would be like with 2, and especially her and the way she is.
> It got so bad for me, with her just sleeping all day and night, that I
would
> put both babies on the floor in the bouncy chairs while she slept on the
> couch, hoping as they cried that she would wake up and do something, but
> there's only so much screaming I can take, and she just seems to sleep
right
> through it and ignores it. One day, I had LOTS of running around to do
all
> over the city, and she wouldn't get up, so I had to pack off all these
kids
> into the car and haul them around with me as I ran errands, and she had
just
> woken up shortly before I got home - hours later.
> This is driving me insane. I DO know I should boot her ass out and tell
her
> to call me when she wants some HELP every now and then, not when she wants
> me to raise her children while she sleeps all day and night. These
babies
> are almost 2 weeks old, and really, I think they've been seeing my face
more
> than their own mother's, and at 2 weeks old, I do not think that what she
is
> doing is right, or at any age, really. I know I should tell her I don't
> mind watching them if she wants a night out or a bit of time to herself,
but
> really, it's been 2 weeks and she's already wanting time to herself
without
> worries??
> Seriously, I know what I should be doing, but I also know that standing by
> and knowing they'll be neglected is even worse, and really, the last
things
> I want is for her to neglect or ignore them, or to call child welfare and
> have them take them away. I feel like I'm babysitting an adult child, as
> well as 2 extra infants, but I just feel like I'm so trapped...
> I know this is stupid, and yes, I made my own bed, but really, what would
> you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
> lose-lose situation?
>
>
>

Sounds to me like she may be suffering from post-partum depression. Have
her see her doctor right away, go with her and tell him what she's been
doing, because she's likely not to. Also, be firm with her, tell her she
needs to take more responsibility for her babies. Then follow your head for
the next step, whatever that may be. Firstly, I would recommend ruling out
depression, because that's what it sounds like to me. But then, I'm just a
nurse. :-)

Betsy

[kat]

"Betsy" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "kat" > wrote in message
> news:vnVvb.19182$IZ1.13878@edtnps84...
> > Well, I have this real good friend, who lives in Calgary, who's been
> having
> > some problems.
> > Quick rundown on her: She's 27 (next month) on her second marriage (her
> > husband was killed 2 years ago yesterday, actually) and her second
> marriage
> > only happend in June when she found out she was pregnant by her good
> friend,
> > who was best man at her first wedding. (I believe they were both drunk,
> and
> > it was a one night stand type thing)
> > So... She got married June, he's a useless piece of **** that I never
> cared
> > much for from the start. This September, **** happened, to keep the
story
> > short, and she kicked him out of her house. (She has money, a good job,
> her
> > own house, cars, etc., and he has very little as far as life goes -
> > gambling, cars and bars is his life, it seems) She's been staying,
since
> > September, mostly at her grandparents' place, here in Edmonton.
> > 2 weeks ago, we went out together, then the next day she called me cause
> she
> > was having these babies right away, and I rushed to the other side of
the
> > city, picked her up and took her to the hospital, and even stayed with
her
> > for most of the time she was there. She had her babies 2 weeks ago on
> > Sunday (twin boys) and, from what I've seen directly, is a useless piece
> of
> > **** herself.
> > Again, she's been staying at her grandparents' place, and they're both
> older
> > than Moses, and on many, many occasions, over the past 2 weeks, has
called
> > me up in the middle of the night, crying herself and all I could hear
was
> > these babies screaming in the background. Every time I've told her to
> come
> > over to my place and I'd help her out. She stayed here the first time
for
> 4
> > days, and I did my best to try and get both these babies on some type of
a
> > schedule of feeding and sleeping that would be easier on her (even
though
> > I'm sure we all know babies like to keep their own crazy schedules) I
> ended
> > up being able to have both babies sleep around the same times and get up
> to
> > eat around the same times, and I gave her a night where she could get
some
> > sleep and I could get up in the middle of the night. (To me, this seems
> no
> > different than a couple both taking turns with feedings and all that,
and
> I
> > didn't mind)
> > Now I am starting to mind. She's been coming over more and more and she
> > sleeps all day and all night, it seems, and I've been stuck doing her
> > parenting responsibilities.
> > I know, in a way, I've put myself in this position, and I know I should
> tell
> > her to grow up and be responsible for her own children, but I also know
> what
> > it's like to take care of a child with no one else around, and I know
how
> > damn hard it was with one infant, and at the time, I could only imagine
> what
> > it would be like with 2, and especially her and the way she is.
> > It got so bad for me, with her just sleeping all day and night, that I
> would
> > put both babies on the floor in the bouncy chairs while she slept on the
> > couch, hoping as they cried that she would wake up and do something, but
> > there's only so much screaming I can take, and she just seems to sleep
> right
> > through it and ignores it. One day, I had LOTS of running around to do
> all
> > over the city, and she wouldn't get up, so I had to pack off all these
> kids
> > into the car and haul them around with me as I ran errands, and she had
> just
> > woken up shortly before I got home - hours later.
> > This is driving me insane. I DO know I should boot her ass out and tell
> her
> > to call me when she wants some HELP every now and then, not when she
wants
> > me to raise her children while she sleeps all day and night. These
> babies
> > are almost 2 weeks old, and really, I think they've been seeing my face
> more
> > than their own mother's, and at 2 weeks old, I do not think that what
she
> is
> > doing is right, or at any age, really. I know I should tell her I don't
> > mind watching them if she wants a night out or a bit of time to herself,
> but
> > really, it's been 2 weeks and she's already wanting time to herself
> without
> > worries??
> > Seriously, I know what I should be doing, but I also know that standing
by
> > and knowing they'll be neglected is even worse, and really, the last
> things
> > I want is for her to neglect or ignore them, or to call child welfare
and
> > have them take them away. I feel like I'm babysitting an adult child,
as
> > well as 2 extra infants, but I just feel like I'm so trapped...
> > I know this is stupid, and yes, I made my own bed, but really, what
would
> > you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
> > lose-lose situation?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Sounds to me like she may be suffering from post-partum depression. Have
> her see her doctor right away, go with her and tell him what she's been
> doing, because she's likely not to. Also, be firm with her, tell her she
> needs to take more responsibility for her babies. Then follow your head
for
> the next step, whatever that may be. Firstly, I would recommend ruling
out
> depression, because that's what it sounds like to me. But then, I'm just
a
> nurse. :-)
>
> Betsy

Yes, but I know her inside and out, so to speak, and it's definitely not
post partum depression. Getting up all day and all night with a baby, or
two, will obviously make a person tired, cranky, on edge, even unhappy, no
matter who they are. But she really hasn't changed at all, even though I
she'd be the first candidate for ppd. She just seems to not get it that
both of her own babies need her. She's just very selfish, and she always
has been. Really, she's no happier or sadder or depressed or anxious or
anything, really, than what she's always been since the day I met her years
ago. There's definitely not any sudden or even gradual change in her, even
though a change is needed for some things, ie, priorities.
I know she has talked to the community nurse, and had even asked the nurse
to come back the following day (after that first in home visit) and I know
she was angry because she said that what the nurse told her didn't work at
all, but other than that, if she would just care more about other things
than herself, I know things would go way better for her.
She props up bottles while playing video games, then when I told her she
really shouldn't do that, and picked one up, she then was like, 'oh yea, I
guess you're right' and picked the other one up, and we both sat on the
couch, each feeding a baby, and sat talking the whole time, gossiping about
everyone we could think of. She knows right from wrong, but it's like she
just has other priorities, and I'm thinking it will just be time before she
grows up... Maybe I am completely wrong, but she's not suffering from ppd...
Sure, she sleeps all the time, but she's always been a workaholic who sleeps
every hour that she's not working, she doesn't have any kind of mood swings
at all, she doesn't cry for what seems like no reason (other than the couple
times she called me when she had no idea what to do) and she doesn't lack
total interest in either baby at all. She hasn't ever been overly happy or
sad, like, she's just her normal self, only now it seems to be more of a
concern because it's not just her.
I thought maybe she could have had a touch of the baby blues, or ppd, but
when I actually started paying attention and trying to 'watch' her without
her knowing, I saw I was the one who was going crazy. I looked all over the
computer, even tore through boxes downstairs to find my old books and such
to get some info, and from the bit I could find, she just doesn't seem to
fit any of the listed symptoms. I think it's me who is now going really,
really crazy...

[Joelle]

>
>Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for them.

How much do you know about the child protective services in your area? They
all vary and not all of them go for the jugular. Some really do want to work
with the parent. They can offer a lot of services and resources. ANd sometimes
it is the scare of loosing the kids that turns someone around. Why don't you
check out for sure what would happen if you called them?

Unfortunately there really is no perfect solution and no easy way out for you.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[lm]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:23:12 GMT, "kat" > wrote:

>
>"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
>> >what would
>> >you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
>> >lose-lose situation?
>>
>> I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really you
>have to
>> think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't
>going to
>> raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what is
>best
>> for the children and it should be a little less complicated.
>>
>> Joelle
>> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>> Augustine
>> Joelle
>
>Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for them.
>I don't think bouncing around from foster home to foster home is better at
>all. I cannot place them for adoption, nor can I seem to get through to her
>and make her see what I'm sure she knows she should do.
>I'm even getting to the point where I've been debating on calling that idiot
>father and telling him to get his act together. She doesn't want him around
>until he can stop drinking, and I agree with her 100% there. As much as I
>don't like that fool, I do think he'd make a damn good dad, IF he can
>control his drinking, because he's not that bad of a guy under normal
>circumstances, there's just something about him I don't like (maybe
>personality clash?) and he WANTS to see his kids. I don't know if I should
>contact him and see what is going on or not.

You're saying the father wants to see his babies and hasn't been
allowed to? That's not right. You may be right that a foster home
would not be better for them. Maybe their father's home would be
better for them. Maybe their mother is suffering from post-partum
depression and this is temporary. But what they've got right now
doesn't seem fair to them. I do not envy your position.

lm (wishing kat peace of mind and a good night's sleep)

[kat]

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for
them.
>
> How much do you know about the child protective services in your area?
They
> all vary and not all of them go for the jugular. Some really do want to
work
> with the parent. They can offer a lot of services and resources. ANd
sometimes
> it is the scare of loosing the kids that turns someone around. Why don't
you
> check out for sure what would happen if you called them?

I know it inside and out, from front to back and everything in between.
That's what I was going to school for last year (and I guess my excuse this
year was I just needed a break?) ;) My mom has also been in child
protection (child welfare) for over 25 years, which is longer than that I've
even been around. I've seen, first hand, children bouncing from foster home
to foster home then on to grouphomes and back.
Really, actually, one of my first thoughts of calling was the hopes of
scaring her to know that child abuse, in ANY way (be it neglect, emotional,
physical, psychological, sexual, etc. is not right) and I kind of see that
she doesn't really realize things until they are pointed out, just because
she doesn't know, and now that I think about it, I remember those days when
I, as well, didn't know either, but I was smart enough to ask for help, and
keep it as just help every now and then, and I was always willing to listen
to advice and try new things. She just doesn't seem to be at that point
yet.

> Unfortunately there really is no perfect solution and no easy way out for
you.

Yes, I do see this. But after last night, when I had talked to her, it was
like she was almost listening and actually hearing me, which is, a total
change for her... Maybe she had heard ME complaining about it to Wes, or
maybe she came here and read what I was saying, or maybe she has started to
realize by my own actions and things I say...

> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

[kat]

"lm" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 03:23:12 GMT, "kat" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Joelle" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> >what would
> >> >you do if you were in a similar situation, but felt like you were in a
> >> >lose-lose situation?
> >>
> >> I think you know what I'd do, but I'm the judgmental bitch. Really you
> >have to
> >> think of the children, not you and not your friend. And if you aren't
> >going to
> >> raise the children for her and she is not a fit mother...think of what
is
> >best
> >> for the children and it should be a little less complicated.
> >>
> >> Joelle
> >> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> >> Augustine
> >> Joelle
> >
> >Yes, but all I know is that I don't think a foster home is better for
them.
> >I don't think bouncing around from foster home to foster home is better
at
> >all. I cannot place them for adoption, nor can I seem to get through to
her
> >and make her see what I'm sure she knows she should do.
> >I'm even getting to the point where I've been debating on calling that
idiot
> >father and telling him to get his act together. She doesn't want him
around
> >until he can stop drinking, and I agree with her 100% there. As much as
I
> >don't like that fool, I do think he'd make a damn good dad, IF he can
> >control his drinking, because he's not that bad of a guy under normal
> >circumstances, there's just something about him I don't like (maybe
> >personality clash?) and he WANTS to see his kids. I don't know if I
should
> >contact him and see what is going on or not.
>
> You're saying the father wants to see his babies and hasn't been
> allowed to? That's not right.

No, I think it is right, only because all he does is drink. His life of
being this hardcore triad is so wonderful and full of gangs, booze,
gambling, street racing, guns, the list goes on. She told him to cut that
crap out for the safety of all involved because she wants no part of it now.

> You may be right that a foster home
> would not be better for them. Maybe their father's home would be
> better for them.

Haha MAYBE if he had a home it would be great. His home is in his
beautiful, expensive car. Other than that, he bounces, now, from friends to
friends, crashing where he's able to. No, that is not better. When she
kicked him out of her house (she's the one with the real money, owns her own
house, cars, has a real job, etc.) he was just staying wherever, again. My
opinion on this is strong as well, that this is not better, nor is coming
around drunk, half drunk, or hung over.

> Maybe their mother is suffering from post-partum
> depression and this is temporary. But what they've got right now
> doesn't seem fair to them. I do not envy your position.

I agree. But again, I'm still sticking to the fact that she is just a
spoiled brat herself...

> lm (wishing kat peace of mind and a good night's sleep)