Dr. Phil

[Vickychick]

I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
Vicky
(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)

[Andrew]

"Vickychick" > wrote in message
om...
> I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
> horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
> amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
> makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> Vicky
> (who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)

Hi,

I assume you are talking about single mothers? My thoughts are that single
parents can easily fall into trying to do too much and give too much of
themselves. There is only so much to go round at any one time and you need
to recharge yourself to be of most use to your kid. If you take no time out
you come to a point of diminishing returns at some stage and find you just
are'nt as useful to/good for your kid as you could be with a recharge. You
are the most important thing in your childs universe and its important to
keep yourself in tip top condition to fulfill that responsibility. One of
the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact that you should not
feel guilty for being human and needing some time to get yourself together
as well.I have scheduled a recharge for Dec 12th and I am going to a
function with some people I used to work with on a large project five or six
years ago. Intend to seriously let loose, my daughter is going to stay at my
sisters that night (I know my daughter will not be impressed but it won't do
her harm, there is another kid to play with, she gets on with them and will
be safe and I will feel revitalised (once the hangover subsides))

PS, the guilt thing, note I am justifying myself to myself and others in the
last bit.

PPS end of thoughts

Andrew

[Tiffany]

Andrew > wrote in message
...
>
> "Vickychick" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> > has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
> > horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
> > amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
> > makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> > Vicky
> > (who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
>
> Hi,
>
> I assume you are talking about single mothers? My thoughts are that single
> parents can easily fall into trying to do too much and give too much of
> themselves. There is only so much to go round at any one time and you need
> to recharge yourself to be of most use to your kid. If you take no time
out
> you come to a point of diminishing returns at some stage and find you just
> are'nt as useful to/good for your kid as you could be with a recharge. You
> are the most important thing in your childs universe and its important to
> keep yourself in tip top condition to fulfill that responsibility. One of
> the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact that you should not
> feel guilty for being human and needing some time to get yourself together
> as well.I have scheduled a recharge for Dec 12th and I am going to a
> function with some people I used to work with on a large project five or
six
> years ago. Intend to seriously let loose, my daughter is going to stay at
my
> sisters that night (I know my daughter will not be impressed but it won't
do
> her harm, there is another kid to play with, she gets on with them and
will
> be safe and I will feel revitalised (once the hangover subsides))
>
> PS, the guilt thing, note I am justifying myself to myself and others in
the
> last bit.
>
> PPS end of thoughts
>
> Andrew
>
>

I am not sure if the original post was on single parenting but I like to add
that ALL parents fall into that trap of being to giving of themselves. Of
what I see around me and in my profession, it is not more or less of a
single parenting thing. It is a parenting issue. I also will add, that in
homes where there are two parents, it seems to me that the man is more
likely to take time for himself then the women. That is just what I see, no
stats to back it up. It could be the fathers are doing things to keep them
strong for the family while moms tend to think the family will cease to
exist without them there to control it?

T

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On 1 Dec 2003 06:42:46 -0800, (Vickychick)
> >I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> >has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
> >horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
> >amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
> >makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> >Vicky
> >(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
>
> Mothers are judged to a different standard than fathers. Because we
> expect less from fathers, even the word "fathering" means fewer things,
> fewer expectations than the word "mothering", then mothers will feel as
> if there aren't enough hours in the day. Until the responsibilities of
> the roles are truly equal with respect to responsibilities (income,
> childcare, and housework), then mothers will continue to forego taking
> time out for themselves. Fathers seem to be more able to do this. They
> take the time that they need and then give to others. Perhaps it's
> because of the way that we think of fathers. Their traditional role is
> as income producer whereas mothers have traditionally taken care of
> everything else regarding home and family. I can only theorize that the
> idea of motherhood and fatherhood must change to catch up to the
> economic changes in the operation of the family.
>
> 'Kate
>

I'm with you on this one Kate. I found that living with someone else
created more problems than helped ease them. I found I was doing even more
work, whereas that other person could have helped out more. I think when
it's just me, I have only myself to count on, and when I was living with
someone else, their expectations weren't in line with mine (clean house,
laundry done, the basics really). *sigh* I want to be in a relationship
where it's based on equality. I find that typically, even though I was
working or going to school full-time that *I* was still responsible for the
household duties and let me tell you, that didn't fly for very long. lol

Christine

[HanK]

> as well.I have scheduled a recharge for Dec 12th and I am going to a
> function with some people I used to work with on a large project five or
six
> years ago. Intend to seriously let loose,

Have it large. Screw some bint. get over the hang over and subsequent
remorse, eat some carbs and do it all again next week!

[CME]

"HanK" > wrote in message
...
> > as well.I have scheduled a recharge for Dec 12th and I am going to a
> > function with some people I used to work with on a large project five or
> six
> > years ago. Intend to seriously let loose,
>
> Have it large. Screw some bint. get over the hang over and subsequent
> remorse, eat some carbs and do it all again next week!
>

Yeah and you thought my spending the night on the PC was lame...
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. *snicker* Yep, you're quite the role model.
;)

Christine

[Paul Fritz]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:cBPyb.230510$jy.97087@clgrps13...
>
> <'Kate> wrote in message
...
> > On 1 Dec 2003 06:42:46 -0800, (Vickychick)
> > >I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> > >has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
> > >horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
> > >amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
> > >makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> > >Vicky
> > >(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
> >
> > Mothers are judged to a different standard than fathers. Because we
> > expect less from fathers, even the word "fathering" means fewer things,
> > fewer expectations than the word "mothering", then mothers will feel as
> > if there aren't enough hours in the day. Until the responsibilities of
> > the roles are truly equal with respect to responsibilities (income,
> > childcare, and housework), then mothers will continue to forego taking
> > time out for themselves. Fathers seem to be more able to do this. They
> > take the time that they need and then give to others. Perhaps it's
> > because of the way that we think of fathers. Their traditional role is
> > as income producer whereas mothers have traditionally taken care of
> > everything else regarding home and family. I can only theorize that the
> > idea of motherhood and fatherhood must change to catch up to the
> > economic changes in the operation of the family.
> >
> > 'Kate
> >
>
> I'm with you on this one Kate. I found that living with someone else
> created more problems than helped ease them. I found I was doing even
more
> work, whereas that other person could have helped out more. I think when
> it's just me, I have only myself to count on, and when I was living with
> someone else, their expectations weren't in line with mine (clean house,
> laundry done, the basics really). *sigh* I want to be in a relationship
> where it's based on equality. I find that typically, even though I was
> working or going to school full-time that *I* was still responsible for
the
> household duties and let me tell you, that didn't fly for very long. lol
>
> Christine

I think that in general, there is a vast chasm between what men consider
'clean' and what women do ;-)

>
>

[Paul Fritz]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On 1 Dec 2003 06:42:46 -0800, (Vickychick)
> >I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> >has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
> >horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
> >amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
> >makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> >Vicky
> >(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
>
> Mothers are judged to a different standard than fathers. Because we
> expect less from fathers, even the word "fathering" means fewer things,
> fewer expectations than the word "mothering", then mothers will feel as
> if there aren't enough hours in the day. Until the responsibilities of
> the roles are truly equal with respect to responsibilities (income,
> childcare, and housework), then mothers will continue to forego taking
> time out for themselves. Fathers seem to be more able to do this. They
> take the time that they need and then give to others. Perhaps it's
> because of the way that we think of fathers. Their traditional role is
> as income producer whereas mothers have traditionally taken care of
> everything else regarding home and family. I can only theorize that the
> idea of motherhood and fatherhood must change to catch up to the
> economic changes in the operation of the family.
>
> 'Kate
>

Noooooooooooooo......its just that women in general live longer, so men need
to take the 'time outs' now, you can have them after we're gone ;-)

[CME]

"Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:cBPyb.230510$jy.97087@clgrps13...
> >
> > <'Kate> wrote in message
> ...
> > > On 1 Dec 2003 06:42:46 -0800, (Vickychick)
> > > >I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> > > >has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to
her
> > > >horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It
was
> > > >amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too
much
> > > >makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> > > >Vicky
> > > >(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
> > >
> > > Mothers are judged to a different standard than fathers. Because we
> > > expect less from fathers, even the word "fathering" means fewer
things,
> > > fewer expectations than the word "mothering", then mothers will feel
as
> > > if there aren't enough hours in the day. Until the responsibilities of
> > > the roles are truly equal with respect to responsibilities (income,
> > > childcare, and housework), then mothers will continue to forego taking
> > > time out for themselves. Fathers seem to be more able to do this.
They
> > > take the time that they need and then give to others. Perhaps it's
> > > because of the way that we think of fathers. Their traditional role
is
> > > as income producer whereas mothers have traditionally taken care of
> > > everything else regarding home and family. I can only theorize that
the
> > > idea of motherhood and fatherhood must change to catch up to the
> > > economic changes in the operation of the family.
> > >
> > > 'Kate
> > >
> >
> > I'm with you on this one Kate. I found that living with someone else
> > created more problems than helped ease them. I found I was doing even
> more
> > work, whereas that other person could have helped out more. I think
when
> > it's just me, I have only myself to count on, and when I was living with
> > someone else, their expectations weren't in line with mine (clean house,
> > laundry done, the basics really). *sigh* I want to be in a relationship
> > where it's based on equality. I find that typically, even though I was
> > working or going to school full-time that *I* was still responsible for
> the
> > household duties and let me tell you, that didn't fly for very long. lol
> >
> > Christine
>
> I think that in general, there is a vast chasm between what men consider
> 'clean' and what women do ;-)
>

LOL yeah you got THAT right. I draw the line at laundry strewn across the
house when let's face it, it's not hard to toss it in the laundry basket, or
when I find wrappers stuffed under the cushions, I'm like FFS are you 3
years old? And I know it wasn't my kids because geez, they actually know
better. LOL

Christine

[Paul Fritz]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:pWTyb.91503$oN2.36956@edtnps84...
>
> "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "CME" > wrote in message
> > news:cBPyb.230510$jy.97087@clgrps13...
> > >
> > > <'Kate> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > On 1 Dec 2003 06:42:46 -0800, (Vickychick)
> > > > >I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited
who
> > > > >has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to
> her
> > > > >horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It
> was
> > > > >amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too
> much
> > > > >makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> > > > >Vicky
> > > > >(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
> > > >
> > > > Mothers are judged to a different standard than fathers. Because we
> > > > expect less from fathers, even the word "fathering" means fewer
> things,
> > > > fewer expectations than the word "mothering", then mothers will feel
> as
> > > > if there aren't enough hours in the day. Until the responsibilities
of
> > > > the roles are truly equal with respect to responsibilities (income,
> > > > childcare, and housework), then mothers will continue to forego
taking
> > > > time out for themselves. Fathers seem to be more able to do this.
> They
> > > > take the time that they need and then give to others. Perhaps it's
> > > > because of the way that we think of fathers. Their traditional role
> is
> > > > as income producer whereas mothers have traditionally taken care of
> > > > everything else regarding home and family. I can only theorize that
> the
> > > > idea of motherhood and fatherhood must change to catch up to the
> > > > economic changes in the operation of the family.
> > > >
> > > > 'Kate
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm with you on this one Kate. I found that living with someone else
> > > created more problems than helped ease them. I found I was doing even
> > more
> > > work, whereas that other person could have helped out more. I think
> when
> > > it's just me, I have only myself to count on, and when I was living
with
> > > someone else, their expectations weren't in line with mine (clean
house,
> > > laundry done, the basics really). *sigh* I want to be in a
relationship
> > > where it's based on equality. I find that typically, even though I
was
> > > working or going to school full-time that *I* was still responsible
for
> > the
> > > household duties and let me tell you, that didn't fly for very long.
lol
> > >
> > > Christine
> >
> > I think that in general, there is a vast chasm between what men consider
> > 'clean' and what women do ;-)
> >
>
> LOL yeah you got THAT right. I draw the line at laundry strewn across the
> house when let's face it, it's not hard to toss it in the laundry basket,
or
> when I find wrappers stuffed under the cushions, I'm like FFS are you 3
> years old? And I know it wasn't my kids because geez, they actually know
> better. LOL
>
> Christine

I forgot to add.....'my daughter being the exception to the rule" LOL


>
>

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:50:48 GMT, "CME" >
> >
> ><'Kate> wrote in message
...
> >> On 1 Dec 2003 06:42:46 -0800, (Vickychick)
> >> >I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> >> >has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
> >> >horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
> >> >amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
> >> >makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> >> >Vicky
> >> >(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
> >>
> >> Mothers are judged to a different standard than fathers. Because we
> >> expect less from fathers, even the word "fathering" means fewer things,
> >> fewer expectations than the word "mothering", then mothers will feel as
> >> if there aren't enough hours in the day. Until the responsibilities of
> >> the roles are truly equal with respect to responsibilities (income,
> >> childcare, and housework), then mothers will continue to forego taking
> >> time out for themselves. Fathers seem to be more able to do this. They
> >> take the time that they need and then give to others. Perhaps it's
> >> because of the way that we think of fathers. Their traditional role is
> >> as income producer whereas mothers have traditionally taken care of
> >> everything else regarding home and family. I can only theorize that
the
> >> idea of motherhood and fatherhood must change to catch up to the
> >> economic changes in the operation of the family.
> >>
> >> 'Kate
> >>
> >
> >I'm with you on this one Kate. I found that living with someone else
> >created more problems than helped ease them. I found I was doing even
more
> >work, whereas that other person could have helped out more. I think when
> >it's just me, I have only myself to count on, and when I was living with
> >someone else, their expectations weren't in line with mine (clean house,
> >laundry done, the basics really). *sigh* I want to be in a relationship
> >where it's based on equality. I find that typically, even though I was
> >working or going to school full-time that *I* was still responsible for
the
> >household duties and let me tell you, that didn't fly for very long. lol
> >
> >Christine
> >
>
> I know what you mean. That was typical of my marriage. When I worked, I
> still had the same household and childcare responsibilities. I don't
> remember getting more than 4-5 hours of sleep per night because my day
> ended somewhere around midnight and started at 5 am. Weekends were
> spent doing the major cleaning, cooking for part of the week, and the
> general laundry (towels and sheets). It was awful.
>
> I think that men, in general, have changed from generation to
> generation. I hear different attitudes from the younger men. Many of
> them were raised in single-mother households and know how to take care
> of more than their older, more traditional counterparts.
>
> There are, of course, exceptional men and women who shared duties from
> the start or have adopted non-traditional roles by choice.
>
> 'Kate

Yeah and where can I meet them??? lol

Christine

[kat]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:a1Yyb.231801$jy.92667@clgrps13...
>
> <'Kate> wrote in message
...
> > On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:50:48 GMT, "CME" >
> > >
> > ><'Kate> wrote in message
> ...
> > >> On 1 Dec 2003 06:42:46 -0800, (Vickychick)
> > >> >I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> > >> >has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to
her
> > >> >horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It
was
> > >> >amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too
much
> > >> >makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> > >> >Vicky
> > >> >(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
> > >>
> > >> Mothers are judged to a different standard than fathers. Because we
> > >> expect less from fathers, even the word "fathering" means fewer
things,
> > >> fewer expectations than the word "mothering", then mothers will feel
as
> > >> if there aren't enough hours in the day. Until the responsibilities
of
> > >> the roles are truly equal with respect to responsibilities (income,
> > >> childcare, and housework), then mothers will continue to forego
taking
> > >> time out for themselves. Fathers seem to be more able to do this.
They
> > >> take the time that they need and then give to others. Perhaps it's
> > >> because of the way that we think of fathers. Their traditional role
is
> > >> as income producer whereas mothers have traditionally taken care of
> > >> everything else regarding home and family. I can only theorize that
> the
> > >> idea of motherhood and fatherhood must change to catch up to the
> > >> economic changes in the operation of the family.
> > >>
> > >> 'Kate
> > >>
> > >
> > >I'm with you on this one Kate. I found that living with someone else
> > >created more problems than helped ease them. I found I was doing even
> more
> > >work, whereas that other person could have helped out more. I think
when
> > >it's just me, I have only myself to count on, and when I was living
with
> > >someone else, their expectations weren't in line with mine (clean
house,
> > >laundry done, the basics really). *sigh* I want to be in a relationship
> > >where it's based on equality. I find that typically, even though I was
> > >working or going to school full-time that *I* was still responsible for
> the
> > >household duties and let me tell you, that didn't fly for very long.
lol
> > >
> > >Christine
> > >
> >
> > I know what you mean. That was typical of my marriage. When I worked, I
> > still had the same household and childcare responsibilities. I don't
> > remember getting more than 4-5 hours of sleep per night because my day
> > ended somewhere around midnight and started at 5 am. Weekends were
> > spent doing the major cleaning, cooking for part of the week, and the
> > general laundry (towels and sheets). It was awful.
> >
> > I think that men, in general, have changed from generation to
> > generation. I hear different attitudes from the younger men. Many of
> > them were raised in single-mother households and know how to take care
> > of more than their older, more traditional counterparts.
> >
> > There are, of course, exceptional men and women who shared duties from
> > the start or have adopted non-traditional roles by choice.
> >
> > 'Kate
>
> Yeah and where can I meet them??? lol
>
> Christine


I found one, although we're on the rocks, somewhat...
He's the one bitching about laundry getting backed up, or washed and folded
and left in baskets outside rooms, beside closets or dressers or on the
couch (and yes, I do realize it's not hard to put it all away) and it's him
I hardly ever see without a vacuum in his hand, although I do go overboard
with washing the floors... He's the one who finally gives up and does the
dishes in the sink, as I don't see any point in washed 3 glasses, a spoon
and a plate when you can save it all til the end of the day and do a bit
more to make it worthwhile...

[Andrew]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>

the man is more
> likely to take time for himself then the women.


moms tend to think the family will cease to
> exist without them there to control it?
>
> T
>
>

Ahhh marriage, the coming together of a male idle b*stard and a female
egotistical maniac. Sheer bliss.
;-) LOL

(its humor, so any and all attacks will be completely ignored)

Andrew

[Andrew]

"HanK" > wrote in message
...
> > as well.I have scheduled a recharge for Dec 12th and I am going to a
> > function with some people I used to work with on a large project five or
> six
> > years ago. Intend to seriously let loose,
>
> Have it large. Screw some bint. get over the hang over and subsequent
> remorse, eat some carbs and do it all again next week!
>
>
re carbs
Reminder to self. I can eat a greasy, chilli doner kebab at one in the
morning if I want. I have missed them!

Andrew

[Tiffany]

Andrew > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> the man is more
> > likely to take time for himself then the women.
>
>
> moms tend to think the family will cease to
> > exist without them there to control it?
> >
> > T
> >
> >
>
> Ahhh marriage, the coming together of a male idle b*stard and a female
> egotistical maniac. Sheer bliss.
> ;-) LOL
>
> (its humor, so any and all attacks will be completely ignored)
>
> Andrew
>
>

You say its humor but I think you know its true. lol... just kidding also.
;)

T

[Joelle]

> There are, of course, exceptional men and women who shared duties from
>> the start or have adopted non-traditional roles by choice.
>>
>> 'Kate
>
>Yeah and where can I meet them??? lol

My husband did more housecleaning than me.

He was older - 35 and had to live on his own and clean his own house. I think
that makes a difference.

Being somone that doesn't care if the bathtub gets disinfected every day or
even every week, I think Paul has a point about how a lot of women have higher
standards about housekeeping than men. So they don't give men credit for what
they do, or they complain and criticize what they do and so they don't do it.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Tiffany]

Joelle > wrote in message
...
> > There are, of course, exceptional men and women who shared duties from
> >> the start or have adopted non-traditional roles by choice.
> >>
> >> 'Kate
> >
> >Yeah and where can I meet them??? lol
>
> My husband did more housecleaning than me.
>
> He was older - 35 and had to live on his own and clean his own house. I
think
> that makes a difference.
>
> Being somone that doesn't care if the bathtub gets disinfected every day
or
> even every week, I think Paul has a point about how a lot of women have
higher
> standards about housekeeping than men. So they don't give men credit for
what
> they do, or they complain and criticize what they do and so they don't do
it.
>
> Joelle


That is very true. So many of my friends complain about how the husband
can't clean right or do laundry right. If someone else is cleaning, how can
it be wrong? lol

[CME]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Joelle > wrote in message
> ...
> > > There are, of course, exceptional men and women who shared duties from
> > >> the start or have adopted non-traditional roles by choice.
> > >>
> > >> 'Kate
> > >
> > >Yeah and where can I meet them??? lol
> >
> > My husband did more housecleaning than me.
> >
> > He was older - 35 and had to live on his own and clean his own house. I
> think
> > that makes a difference.
> >
> > Being somone that doesn't care if the bathtub gets disinfected every day
> or
> > even every week, I think Paul has a point about how a lot of women have
> higher
> > standards about housekeeping than men. So they don't give men credit
for
> what
> > they do, or they complain and criticize what they do and so they don't
do
> it.
> >
> > Joelle
>
>
> That is very true. So many of my friends complain about how the husband
> can't clean right or do laundry right. If someone else is cleaning, how
can
> it be wrong? lol
>

EXACTLY! I mean hey, if he was contributing, why bitch? I remember I
*used* to be alittle anal when it came to things, but after having kids oh
boy have my standards relaxed. If I have dishes in the sink, who cares...
if the laundry's pilled up over the week, oh well... I just like things to
be somewhat tidy, so I draw the line at garbage strewn around the house, or
if food is left out... basic housekeeping standards.

Christine

[CME]

"Andrew" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> the man is more
> > likely to take time for himself then the women.
>
>
> moms tend to think the family will cease to
> > exist without them there to control it?
> >
> > T
> >
> >
>
> Ahhh marriage, the coming together of a male idle b*stard and a female
> egotistical maniac. Sheer bliss.
> ;-) LOL
>
> (its humor, so any and all attacks will be completely ignored)
>
> Andrew
>

Hey... that's Ms. Ego Maniac to you. ;)

Christine

[HanK]

"CME"

Its funny I was thinking of you lot last Saturday night when some bint was
trying to remove my tonsels whilst telling me how much she loved her husband
and kids. women are like female spiders. Still another enemy diffused ;)

HanK

[CME]

"HanK" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME"
>
> Its funny I was thinking of you lot last Saturday night when some bint was
> trying to remove my tonsels whilst telling me how much she loved her
husband
> and kids. women are like female spiders. Still another enemy diffused ;)
>
> HanK
>

And you let her? I think that says more about you than her, proving our
point all along. ;)

Christine

[Paul Fritz]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:Mw6zb.236029$jy.34561@clgrps13...
>
> "HanK" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "CME"
> >
> > Its funny I was thinking of you lot last Saturday night when some bint
was
> > trying to remove my tonsels whilst telling me how much she loved her
> husband
> > and kids. women are like female spiders. Still another enemy diffused ;)
> >
> > HanK
> >
>
> And you let her? I think that says more about you than her, proving our
> point all along. ;)
>
> Christine
>
>

More likely hank was out in the barn piling it high.

[Joelle]

>I think Paul has a point about how a lot of women have higher
>>standards about housekeeping than men. So they don't give men credit for
>what
>>they do, or they complain and criticize what they do and so they don't do
>it.

>So rather than talk about what is going on, they withdraw help to teach
>the little woman a lesson?
>
Well that really puts it back on men to look at it that way. I doubt they are
thinking about "teaching her a lesson" - my guess is, they don't like being
criticized so they don't do it. Kids are like that. People are like that.
Yea, talking about it helps. I'm just offering the counter to the stereotype
that "men never help around the house" with the other side that when they do,
it's often not good enough.

I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in charge" of
the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a shared
responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Tiffany]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:50:50 -0500, "Tiffany" >
> >
> >Joelle > wrote in message
> ...
> >> > There are, of course, exceptional men and women who shared duties
from
> >> >> the start or have adopted non-traditional roles by choice.
> >> >>
> >> >> 'Kate
> >> >
> >> >Yeah and where can I meet them??? lol
> >>
> >> My husband did more housecleaning than me.
> >>
> >> He was older - 35 and had to live on his own and clean his own house.
I
> >think
> >> that makes a difference.
> >>
> >> Being somone that doesn't care if the bathtub gets disinfected every
day
> >or
> >> even every week, I think Paul has a point about how a lot of women have
> >higher
> >> standards about housekeeping than men. So they don't give men credit
for
> >what
> >> they do, or they complain and criticize what they do and so they don't
do
> >it.
> >>
> >> Joelle
> >
> >
> >That is very true. So many of my friends complain about how the husband
> >can't clean right or do laundry right. If someone else is cleaning, how
can
> >it be wrong? lol
>
> When they should be grateful that he ever lifted a finger to do
> something to contribute? This may surprise you but some men know darn
> well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
> white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
> to do laundry in the house.
>
> 'Kate
>

Maybe you should spank them like kids then. lol

T

[Tiffany]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:50:50 -0500, "Tiffany" >
> >
> >Joelle > wrote in message
> ...
> >> > There are, of course, exceptional men and women who shared duties
from
> >> >> the start or have adopted non-traditional roles by choice.
> >> >>
> >> >> 'Kate
> >> >
> >> >Yeah and where can I meet them??? lol
> >>
> >> My husband did more housecleaning than me.
> >>
> >> He was older - 35 and had to live on his own and clean his own house.
I
> >think
> >> that makes a difference.
> >>
> >> Being somone that doesn't care if the bathtub gets disinfected every
day
> >or
> >> even every week, I think Paul has a point about how a lot of women have
> >higher
> >> standards about housekeeping than men. So they don't give men credit
for
> >what
> >> they do, or they complain and criticize what they do and so they don't
do
> >it.
> >>
> >> Joelle
> >
> >
> >That is very true. So many of my friends complain about how the husband
> >can't clean right or do laundry right. If someone else is cleaning, how
can
> >it be wrong? lol
>
> When they should be grateful that he ever lifted a finger to do
> something to contribute? This may surprise you but some men know darn
> well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
> white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
> to do laundry in the house.
>
> 'Kate
>

What does surprise me is that women blame it on the man for his behavior
when chances are it is learnt behavior. If the man is someone who would
purposely ruin clothes to get out of helping around the house, then in my
opinion, he wouldn't be around the house. T

[Andrew]

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in charge"
of
> the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a shared
> responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.
>
> Joelle

Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with my wife and
I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a week, I
suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as it was a
big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My wife 'did
not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to manage. I
thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am alone I know
the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but thats a topic
for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my attempts
to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how to do
that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are inherently
lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves here?) will
avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal' (note the
quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams SEP field
applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some people
can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a troubled
person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to get out of
it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was great and
I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards with a
kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend on them
rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.

Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional' roles and
current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should have a read
of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very interesting
ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders behaviour
as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in your
views on the differing social structures she posits as better or at least
alternatives.

Andrew

PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is not
older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me out
here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)

PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the standards
front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although once
having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never have
imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into a toilet
bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need now is me
in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and a
volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty groovy
commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of mine.

[Andrew]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On 02 Dec 2003 22:07:02 GMT, (Joelle)
> >>I think Paul has a point about how a lot of women have higher
> >>>standards about housekeeping than men. So they don't give men credit
for
> >>what
> >>>they do, or they complain and criticize what they do and so they don't
do
> >>it.
> >
> >>So rather than talk about what is going on, they withdraw help to teach
> >>the little woman a lesson?
> >>
> >Well that really puts it back on men to look at it that way. I doubt
they are
> >thinking about "teaching her a lesson" - my guess is, they don't like
being
> >criticized so they don't do it. Kids are like that. People are like
that.
> >Yea, talking about it helps. I'm just offering the counter to the
stereotype
> >that "men never help around the house" with the other side that when they
do,
> >it's often not good enough.
> >
> >I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in
charge" of
> >the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a
shared
> >responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.
>
> I agree. Women do need to give up control to share control of the
> housework, children, etc....
>
> In the same way that men are needed to assume a more equitable level of
> work in the home, women need to adjust the way that we think about that
> work and learn to share responsibility. Sharing responsibility does
> mean that women will have to stop taking total responsibility, give up
> control, and learn to effectively communicate needs - to ask and to be
> heard. It's not easy to change tradition. Mothers/women gain a measure
> of self-esteem from their ability to parent well, to keep a clean home,
> to cook and perform other domestic chores well. Some men aren't
> thrilled with the idea of having more responsibility in the home. It
> isn't what they've learned "fatherhood" is. A request by the wife could
> easily be addressed as "she's nagging." Our roles as parents in a
> two-earner family has changed so fast and we don't have the tools
> (communication skills, models of functional families, learned roles and
> scripts) to keep up with that change. It is no wonder the divorce rate
> has increased. We know the "ideal" but it's awfully hard to find it for
> ourselves because we're building a brand new framework for the idea of
> "family." Adjustments like that require constant tweaking and both
> people in the marriage need to be willing to change how they think of
> their roles.
>
> 'Kate
>

Very good point, it is considered a mark of a 'good woman' to maintain a
clean home. Tradition has defined roles. Question. Do you think that both
genders should have the same roles? There are some physical differences such
as the male inability to breast feed. Should this mean that we take on
different roles and if so what should they be, should it affect housework,
income generation roles or only child rearing roles. Should mothers be
closer to children and fathers more or less superfluous? Not so long ago a
dad would have very little to do with child rearing, would they have been
missed by the child? Should they be missed? What would you personally
consider makes a 'good man' all political considerations aside? Is that what
you would have bred with at breeding time or would traditional values have
ruled your choice? (not to put too fne a point on it)

Andrew

(once you have dealt with the above lets move on to the questions of the
economy and global warming)

[Joelle]

>es. Should mothers be
>closer to children and fathers more or less superfluous?

Obviously fathers are not superfluous but I will say and this is only one
experience, my husband stayed home and took care of the kids, but there were
days when my son was a baby where he would cry all day long and would not be
comforted until I came home. He would cry as soon as I picked up the keys to
leave (this is at 3 months old!) and he would stop crying when I came in the
house. It was really horrible...my husband felt terrible and I don't think he
was incompetent or mean to the kid, I think the baby just wanted his mama. I
think young babies need mama's in a way that men can't fulfill. It was bad
enough to convince me to rearrange things so that when I had my daughter I was
home more.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[CME]

"Andrew" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Joelle" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in
charge"
> of
> > the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a
shared
> > responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.
> >
> > Joelle
>
> Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with my wife
and
> I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a week, I
> suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as it was a
> big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My wife
'did
> not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to manage. I
> thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am alone I
know
> the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but thats a
topic
> for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my attempts
> to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how to do
> that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are
inherently
> lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves here?) will
> avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal' (note the
> quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams SEP
field
> applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some people
> can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a troubled
> person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to get out of
> it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was great
and
> I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards with a
> kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend on them
> rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.
>
> Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional' roles
and
> current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should have a
read
> of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very interesting
> ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders
behaviour
> as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in your
> views on the differing social structures she posits as better or at least
> alternatives.
>
> Andrew
>
> PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is not
> older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me out
> here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)
>
> PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the
standards
> front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although once
> having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never have
> imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into a toilet
> bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need now is
me
> in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and a
> volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty groovy
> commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of mine.
>

LOL can I buy you a plane ticket to Canada? Kat and I are almost neighbours
and I make a mean dinner as well as do laundry. ;)

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:37:28 -0500, "Tiffany" >
> >
> ><'Kate> wrote in message
...
> >> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:50:50 -0500, "Tiffany" >
>
> >> When they should be grateful that he ever lifted a finger to do
> >> something to contribute? This may surprise you but some men know darn
> >> well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
> >> white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
> >> to do laundry in the house.
> >>
> >> 'Kate
> >>
> >
> >Maybe you should spank them like kids then. lol
> >
> >T
>
> I've never had to spank a child. I have, on the other hand, been asked
> to spank.... ah, that's another story altogether.
>
> 'Kate

That we all need to hear... lol

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:40:45 -0500, "Tiffany" >
>
> >What does surprise me is that women blame it on the man for his behavior
> >when chances are it is learnt behavior. If the man is someone who would
> >purposely ruin clothes to get out of helping around the house, then in my
> >opinion, he wouldn't be around the house. T
>
> It's easier to blame the person than the system that teaches some that
> they can get away with it. And it would be foolish to give up on someone
> because they simply don't want to do laundry. That's one of the
> compromises in the division of household labor that has to be discussed.
>
> Evidently, Phil didn't feel that he could tell me how much he hated
> doing laundry. He even confessed to hiding it when I visited his
> apartment and that one of his reasons for marrying was so that he
> wouldn't have to do that kind of thing anymore: laundry, cooking.. you
> know, women's work. I was young and naive when we met (17). I was use
> to working hard. I'd raised my younger siblings. It wasn't that big a
> deal.
>
> Perhaps you younger women are more savvy about things like this than I
> was. I hope so... for my daughters' sakes.
>
> 'Kate
>

Hell ya! If a man doesn't help around the house, I can tell you he won't
last long in my books. lol (Oh no there's that list again... Ohhhhh Tiff...
lmao. Hmmm could this possibly be a reason I'm single??? I have standards?
Oh God forbid. lol)

Christine

[Tiffany]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:40:45 -0500, "Tiffany" >
>
> >What does surprise me is that women blame it on the man for his behavior
> >when chances are it is learnt behavior. If the man is someone who would
> >purposely ruin clothes to get out of helping around the house, then in my
> >opinion, he wouldn't be around the house. T
>
> It's easier to blame the person than the system that teaches some that
> they can get away with it. And it would be foolish to give up on someone
> because they simply don't want to do laundry. That's one of the
> compromises in the division of household labor that has to be discussed.
>
> Evidently, Phil didn't feel that he could tell me how much he hated
> doing laundry. He even confessed to hiding it when I visited his
> apartment and that one of his reasons for marrying was so that he
> wouldn't have to do that kind of thing anymore: laundry, cooking.. you
> know, women's work. I was young and naive when we met (17). I was use
> to working hard. I'd raised my younger siblings. It wasn't that big a
> deal.
>
> Perhaps you younger women are more savvy about things like this than I
> was. I hope so... for my daughters' sakes.
>
> 'Kate
>

I think household chores should be split up based on who likes to do what. I
don't mind cleaning but I hate laundry. I like to cook but prefer to clean
up after and NOT cook. (My daughter is now doing some of the cooking) I HATE
to mow the lawn but don't mind tending the flower beds. So if there is a man
out there that likes to do laundry and cook and mow I will marry him. lol

Did your Phil do other things around the house to make up for his lack of
doing 'women's stuff"?

T

[Tiffany]

CME > wrote in message
news:GLczb.1185$d35.413@edtnps84...
>
> <'Kate> wrote in message
...
> > On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:40:45 -0500, "Tiffany" >
> >
> > >What does surprise me is that women blame it on the man for his
behavior
> > >when chances are it is learnt behavior. If the man is someone who would
> > >purposely ruin clothes to get out of helping around the house, then in
my
> > >opinion, he wouldn't be around the house. T
> >
> > It's easier to blame the person than the system that teaches some that
> > they can get away with it. And it would be foolish to give up on someone
> > because they simply don't want to do laundry. That's one of the
> > compromises in the division of household labor that has to be discussed.
> >
> > Evidently, Phil didn't feel that he could tell me how much he hated
> > doing laundry. He even confessed to hiding it when I visited his
> > apartment and that one of his reasons for marrying was so that he
> > wouldn't have to do that kind of thing anymore: laundry, cooking.. you
> > know, women's work. I was young and naive when we met (17). I was use
> > to working hard. I'd raised my younger siblings. It wasn't that big a
> > deal.
> >
> > Perhaps you younger women are more savvy about things like this than I
> > was. I hope so... for my daughters' sakes.
> >
> > 'Kate
> >
>
> Hell ya! If a man doesn't help around the house, I can tell you he won't
> last long in my books. lol (Oh no there's that list again... Ohhhhh
Tiff...
> lmao. Hmmm could this possibly be a reason I'm single??? I have
standards?
> Oh God forbid. lol)
>
> Christine
>
>

Back to the list eh? lol

If you are single due to your standards, then be proud. :) I don't think
this is really about having high standards. Back in the day, the man worked,
the women stayed home with the kids, the end. If one person IS home full
time, I would suspect that person would due most the house work. If both
adults work, then the housework should be split up. If it were that easy.
lol

T

[kat]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:kHczb.1182$d35.876@edtnps84...
>
> "Andrew" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Joelle" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in
> charge"
> > of
> > > the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a
> shared
> > > responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.
> > >
> > > Joelle
> >
> > Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with my wife
> and
> > I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a week, I
> > suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as it was
a
> > big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My wife
> 'did
> > not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to manage.
I
> > thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am alone I
> know
> > the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but thats a
> topic
> > for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my
attempts
> > to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how to do
> > that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are
> inherently
> > lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves here?)
will
> > avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal' (note
the
> > quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams SEP
> field
> > applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some
people
> > can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a
troubled
> > person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to get out
of
> > it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was great
> and
> > I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards with
a
> > kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend on
them
> > rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.
> >
> > Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional' roles
> and
> > current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should have a
> read
> > of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very
interesting
> > ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders
> behaviour
> > as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in your
> > views on the differing social structures she posits as better or at
least
> > alternatives.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is not
> > older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me out
> > here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)
> >
> > PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the
> standards
> > front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although once
> > having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never have
> > imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into a
toilet
> > bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need now
is
> me
> > in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and a
> > volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty groovy
> > commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of mine.
> >
>
> LOL can I buy you a plane ticket to Canada? Kat and I are almost
neighbours
> and I make a mean dinner as well as do laundry. ;)
>
> Christine

Hey, let me pitch in a bit on that ticket! I can't cook worth **** (In the
long run, it tases good, but half the food is ice cold or over cooked by the
time the last item for supper is ready) but I can clean floors like a mofo.
I also have a strange problem with frying pans/pots when they get that black
on the outside from the stove. But the insides? Hell, I'll use a pot to
boil potatos, give it a quick rinse and wipe the inside with my hand, then
use it for soup within the next day or so... Hey, it's all food, and if
rinsed out, it can't be that bad

[Tiffany]

kat > wrote in message news:Lfpzb.3449$bC.332@clgrps13...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:kHczb.1182$d35.876@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Andrew" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Joelle" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in
> > charge"
> > > of
> > > > the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a
> > shared
> > > > responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.
> > > >
> > > > Joelle
> > >
> > > Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with my
wife
> > and
> > > I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a week, I
> > > suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as it
was
> a
> > > big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My wife
> > 'did
> > > not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to
manage.
> I
> > > thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am alone I
> > know
> > > the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but thats a
> > topic
> > > for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my
> attempts
> > > to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how to
do
> > > that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are
> > inherently
> > > lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves here?)
> will
> > > avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal' (note
> the
> > > quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams SEP
> > field
> > > applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some
> people
> > > can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a
> troubled
> > > person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to get
out
> of
> > > it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was
great
> > and
> > > I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards
with
> a
> > > kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend on
> them
> > > rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.
> > >
> > > Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional'
roles
> > and
> > > current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should have
a
> > read
> > > of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very
> interesting
> > > ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders
> > behaviour
> > > as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in
your
> > > views on the differing social structures she posits as better or at
> least
> > > alternatives.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is
not
> > > older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me
out
> > > here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)
> > >
> > > PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the
> > standards
> > > front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although once
> > > having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never have
> > > imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into a
> toilet
> > > bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need now
> is
> > me
> > > in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and a
> > > volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty
groovy
> > > commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of
mine.
> > >
> >
> > LOL can I buy you a plane ticket to Canada? Kat and I are almost
> neighbours
> > and I make a mean dinner as well as do laundry. ;)
> >
> > Christine
>
> Hey, let me pitch in a bit on that ticket! I can't cook worth **** (In
the
> long run, it tases good, but half the food is ice cold or over cooked by
the
> time the last item for supper is ready) but I can clean floors like a
mofo.
> I also have a strange problem with frying pans/pots when they get that
black
> on the outside from the stove. But the insides? Hell, I'll use a pot to
> boil potatos, give it a quick rinse and wipe the inside with my hand, then
> use it for soup within the next day or so... Hey, it's all food, and if
> rinsed out, it can't be that bad
>
>

The problem with that logic is that bacteria can linger if not cleaned
properly. I should pass this post along to my step-father who is the local
city inspector. He would give you a long lecture. lol He is the one who
inspects restaurants around here. Let me tell you.... it is as gross as they
put it on TV.

T

[Joelle]

> PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is not
>> > older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me out
>> > here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)

35 is pretty old to get married for the first time. Actually he was 37 by the
time we got married. I was 30 and I thought I was over the hill.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[kat]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> kat > wrote in message news:Lfpzb.3449$bC.332@clgrps13...
> >
> > "CME" > wrote in message
> > news:kHczb.1182$d35.876@edtnps84...
> > >
> > > "Andrew" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Joelle" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in
> > > charge"
> > > > of
> > > > > the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is
a
> > > shared
> > > > > responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joelle
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with my
> wife
> > > and
> > > > I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a week,
I
> > > > suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as it
> was
> > a
> > > > big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My
wife
> > > 'did
> > > > not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to
> manage.
> > I
> > > > thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am alone
I
> > > know
> > > > the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but thats
a
> > > topic
> > > > for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my
> > attempts
> > > > to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how
to
> do
> > > > that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are
> > > inherently
> > > > lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves here?)
> > will
> > > > avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal'
(note
> > the
> > > > quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams
SEP
> > > field
> > > > applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some
> > people
> > > > can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a
> > troubled
> > > > person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to get
> out
> > of
> > > > it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was
> great
> > > and
> > > > I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards
> with
> > a
> > > > kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend
on
> > them
> > > > rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.
> > > >
> > > > Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional'
> roles
> > > and
> > > > current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should
have
> a
> > > read
> > > > of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very
> > interesting
> > > > ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders
> > > behaviour
> > > > as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in
> your
> > > > views on the differing social structures she posits as better or at
> > least
> > > > alternatives.
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is
> not
> > > > older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me
> out
> > > > here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)
> > > >
> > > > PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the
> > > standards
> > > > front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although
once
> > > > having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never
have
> > > > imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into a
> > toilet
> > > > bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need
now
> > is
> > > me
> > > > in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and a
> > > > volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty
> groovy
> > > > commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of
> mine.
> > > >
> > >
> > > LOL can I buy you a plane ticket to Canada? Kat and I are almost
> > neighbours
> > > and I make a mean dinner as well as do laundry. ;)
> > >
> > > Christine
> >
> > Hey, let me pitch in a bit on that ticket! I can't cook worth **** (In
> the
> > long run, it tases good, but half the food is ice cold or over cooked by
> the
> > time the last item for supper is ready) but I can clean floors like a
> mofo.
> > I also have a strange problem with frying pans/pots when they get that
> black
> > on the outside from the stove. But the insides? Hell, I'll use a pot
to
> > boil potatos, give it a quick rinse and wipe the inside with my hand,
then
> > use it for soup within the next day or so... Hey, it's all food, and if
> > rinsed out, it can't be that bad
> >
> >
>
> The problem with that logic is that bacteria can linger if not cleaned
> properly. I should pass this post along to my step-father who is the local
> city inspector. He would give you a long lecture. lol He is the one who
> inspects restaurants around here. Let me tell you.... it is as gross as
they
> put it on TV.
>
> T

I don't let dishes sit around all day and night collecting completely
disgusting "stuff" but I do boil water for something like potatos, and then
when potatoes are done boiling, I drain the water out, rinse the pot out
with water and my hand, sometimes a rag if there's one handy, and then use
it again if I see it there. I ALWAYS seem to use the same pot for the same
meal just because it keeps the dishes down. Either that, or when I'm trying
to cook, Wes is right behind me washing dishes ALMOST as fast as I can dirty
them. lol
And believe me, I've seen gross. The Pizza Hut I worked at just before Bran
was born was disgusting. If I told you stories, you'd never want to eat
there if you had just finished spending 3 years in a 3d world country eating
grubs.
Meh... I'll say anyways...
There was this big plastic garbage can that was used for used pizza pans,
topping cups, topping rings and pizza pan lids (this is where pizzas are
thrown together, in the back) When ANYTHING was dropped on the floor, it
had to be thrown in there for washing, obviously. More often than not,
things would fall. Fallen items seemed to rarely get picked up and thrown
in that bin, and everyone found it easier to kick it around a bit, and then
when you actually needed it, someone would pick it up and use it. So very,
very disgusting. I was, maybe, 78 years pregnant (worked until 3 days
before my actual due date) and I still took the time to nearly crawl on the
floor to pick up stuff I, and others, dropped, go put it where it belongs,
wash my hands off, then get back to what I was doing...
Got into work one morning to open the restaurant and do all the prep, only
to find that the psychotic, insane, crazy, perverted manager was there
(hours) before me, and sure enough, he was on his hands and knees, scrubbing
EVERYTHING with a toothbrush. He obviously saw the look of horror and shock
on my face, and that's when I found out that this health inspector was
coming. What a waste. Our store, surprise surprise, had THE lowest rating
in the Capital Region, and the second lowest in the province, second to some
**** hole town up north, I think.
I would not eat at that restaurant after working there, and that's pretty
bad.

[Tiffany]

kat > wrote in message news:Kyrzb.3489$bC.448@clgrps13...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > kat > wrote in message
news:Lfpzb.3449$bC.332@clgrps13...
> > >
> > > "CME" > wrote in message
> > > news:kHczb.1182$d35.876@edtnps84...
> > > >
> > > > "Andrew" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Joelle" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be
"in
> > > > charge"
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really
is
> a
> > > > shared
> > > > > > responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joelle
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, interesting that you should say so. When I was living with
my
> > wife
> > > > and
> > > > > I was working full time she had a part time job two evenings a
week,
> I
> > > > > suggested getting someone to help with managing the housework as
it
> > was
> > > a
> > > > > big load and my sister knew someone who did that for a living. My
> wife
> > > > 'did
> > > > > not want someone else in her house' but admitted it was hard to
> > manage.
> > > I
> > > > > thought I helped as much as possible when I was home (now I am
alone
> I
> > > > know
> > > > > the difference between the 'showy' help and the real help but
thats
> a
> > > > topic
> > > > > for another day!). I guess it gets very territorial. Sometimes my
> > > attempts
> > > > > to help out with something would be met with a 'you don't know how
> to
> > do
> > > > > that properly'. That's not to say that I am denying the 'men are
> > > > inherently
> > > > > lazy argument' as I think many humans (can we count ourselves
here?)
> > > will
> > > > > avoid tedious work if they think they can and men in a 'normal'
> (note
> > > the
> > > > > quotes) marriage have every opportunity to do this. Douglas Adams
> SEP
> > > > field
> > > > > applies (Someone Else's Problem). Hate to get contentious but some
> > > people
> > > > > can also project a real 'o woe is me, I work so hard, I am such a
> > > troubled
> > > > > person, life is just so tough, o woe' and don't seem to want to
get
> > out
> > > of
> > > > > it or be relieved of it. (Not my wife by the way who did lots, was
> > great
> > > > and
> > > > > I just wish it had worked out). Also standards alone and standards
> > with
> > > a
> > > > > kid in the house, the stuff they do and the time you have to spend
> on
> > > them
> > > > > rather than cleaning have got to be different in the real world.
> > > > >
> > > > > Like someone recently posted there is a problem with 'traditional'
> > roles
> > > > and
> > > > > current real life. Anyone who is a fan of science fiction should
> have
> > a
> > > > read
> > > > > of the books of Sherri Tepper, feminist writer with some very
> > > interesting
> > > > > ideas about the way we ought to structure society with the genders
> > > > behaviour
> > > > > as it is. If any of you do read her books I would be interested in
> > your
> > > > > views on the differing social structures she posits as better or
at
> > > least
> > > > > alternatives.
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35
is
> > not
> > > > > older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help
me
> > out
> > > > > here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > PPS As an aside there are some things I am obsessive about in the
> > > > standards
> > > > > front, such as how clean cutlery and crockery should be. Although
> once
> > > > > having a kid some things do change, five years ago I would never
> have
> > > > > imagined being in a position of sticking my poor, naked hand into
a
> > > toilet
> > > > > bowls water for any reason whatsoever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All we need
> now
> > > is
> > > > me
> > > > > in the kitchen with pots and pans, Kat dealing with the floors and
a
> > > > > volunteer for the laundry and bedmaking and we're set as a pretty
> > groovy
> > > > > commune. I also peel potatoes like a demon, its a primary skill of
> > mine.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > LOL can I buy you a plane ticket to Canada? Kat and I are almost
> > > neighbours
> > > > and I make a mean dinner as well as do laundry. ;)
> > > >
> > > > Christine
> > >
> > > Hey, let me pitch in a bit on that ticket! I can't cook worth ****
(In
> > the
> > > long run, it tases good, but half the food is ice cold or over cooked
by
> > the
> > > time the last item for supper is ready) but I can clean floors like a
> > mofo.
> > > I also have a strange problem with frying pans/pots when they get that
> > black
> > > on the outside from the stove. But the insides? Hell, I'll use a pot
> to
> > > boil potatos, give it a quick rinse and wipe the inside with my hand,
> then
> > > use it for soup within the next day or so... Hey, it's all food, and
if
> > > rinsed out, it can't be that bad
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The problem with that logic is that bacteria can linger if not cleaned
> > properly. I should pass this post along to my step-father who is the
local
> > city inspector. He would give you a long lecture. lol He is the one who
> > inspects restaurants around here. Let me tell you.... it is as gross as
> they
> > put it on TV.
> >
> > T
>
> I don't let dishes sit around all day and night collecting completely
> disgusting "stuff" but I do boil water for something like potatos, and
then
> when potatoes are done boiling, I drain the water out, rinse the pot out
> with water and my hand, sometimes a rag if there's one handy, and then use
> it again if I see it there. I ALWAYS seem to use the same pot for the
same
> meal just because it keeps the dishes down. Either that, or when I'm
trying
> to cook, Wes is right behind me washing dishes ALMOST as fast as I can
dirty
> them. lol
> And believe me, I've seen gross. The Pizza Hut I worked at just before
Bran
> was born was disgusting. If I told you stories, you'd never want to eat
> there if you had just finished spending 3 years in a 3d world country
eating
> grubs.
> Meh... I'll say anyways...
> There was this big plastic garbage can that was used for used pizza pans,
> topping cups, topping rings and pizza pan lids (this is where pizzas are
> thrown together, in the back) When ANYTHING was dropped on the floor, it
> had to be thrown in there for washing, obviously. More often than not,
> things would fall. Fallen items seemed to rarely get picked up and thrown
> in that bin, and everyone found it easier to kick it around a bit, and
then
> when you actually needed it, someone would pick it up and use it. So
very,
> very disgusting. I was, maybe, 78 years pregnant (worked until 3 days
> before my actual due date) and I still took the time to nearly crawl on
the
> floor to pick up stuff I, and others, dropped, go put it where it belongs,
> wash my hands off, then get back to what I was doing...
> Got into work one morning to open the restaurant and do all the prep, only
> to find that the psychotic, insane, crazy, perverted manager was there
> (hours) before me, and sure enough, he was on his hands and knees,
scrubbing
> EVERYTHING with a toothbrush. He obviously saw the look of horror and
shock
> on my face, and that's when I found out that this health inspector was
> coming. What a waste. Our store, surprise surprise, had THE lowest
rating
> in the Capital Region, and the second lowest in the province, second to
some
> **** hole town up north, I think.
> I would not eat at that restaurant after working there, and that's pretty
> bad.
>
>

Scary thing, those things are pretty typical. When I was a teen, I worked at
Rax Restaurants (which I am sure no one here will remember) but that place
was ALWAYS clean. But other restaurant jobs weren't like that. I could tell
you lots of stories but will spare my hands all the typing. lol

T

[Vickychick]

"Andrew" > wrote in message >...
> "Vickychick" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> > has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
> > horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
> > amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
> > makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> > Vicky
> > (who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
>
> Hi,
>
> I assume you are talking about single mothers? My thoughts are that single
> parents can easily fall into trying to do too much and give too much of
> themselves. There is only so much to go round at any one time and you need
> to recharge yourself to be of most use to your kid. If you take no time out
> you come to a point of diminishing returns at some stage and find you just
> are'nt as useful to/good for your kid as you could be with a recharge. You
> are the most important thing in your childs universe and its important to
> keep yourself in tip top condition to fulfill that responsibility. One of
> the hardest things to come to terms with is the fact that you should not
> feel guilty for being human and needing some time to get yourself together
> as well.I have scheduled a recharge for Dec 12th and I am going to a
> function with some people I used to work with on a large project five or six
> years ago. Intend to seriously let loose, my daughter is going to stay at my
> sisters that night (I know my daughter will not be impressed but it won't do
> her harm, there is another kid to play with, she gets on with them and will
> be safe and I will feel revitalised (once the hangover subsides))
>
> PS, the guilt thing, note I am justifying myself to myself and others in the
> last bit.
>
> PPS end of thoughts
>
> Andrew



Andrew:
No need to feel guilty. I take my own time outs in my room and put a
sign on the door: MOM NEEDS TEN MINUTES.
Have fun!
-Vicky

[Vickychick]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message >...

>
> I am not sure if the original post was on single parenting but I like to add
> that ALL parents fall into that trap of being to giving of themselves.


Of course, but my original post is geared towards single parents,
hence the newsgroup title.

Of
> what I see around me and in my profession, it is not more or less of a
> single parenting thing. It is a parenting issue.

Very much, but with a two parent household, functioning within normal
limits, I see the stress is lessened. With a single person, you have
to depend on family, friends, ex's to ease up some stress.

I also will add, that in
> homes where there are two parents, it seems to me that the man is more
> likely to take time for himself then the women.

That is not always true. The guy I am dating is a single dad and he is
not taking too much time for himself. I think that is generalizing
men.


That is just what I see, no
> stats to back it up. It could be the fathers are doing things to keep them
> strong for the family while moms tend to think the family will cease to
> exist without them there to control it?



Who knows, but with control issues or co-dependant nature, therapy is
needed, in my opinion.
>
> T


V

[Vickychick]

"CME" > wrote in message news:<LW4zb.92095$oN2.54527@edtnps84>...
> "Andrew" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> >
> > the man is more
> > > likely to take time for himself then the women.
> >
> >
> > moms tend to think the family will cease to
> > > exist without them there to control it?
> > >
> > > T
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Ahhh marriage, the coming together of a male idle b*stard and a female
> > egotistical maniac. Sheer bliss.
> > ;-) LOL
> >
> > (its humor, so any and all attacks will be completely ignored)
> >
> > Andrew
> >
>
> Hey... that's Ms. Ego Maniac to you. ;)
>
> Christine

Self indulging b*stard better and feministic self love?
hee hee.
V

[Vickychick]

"CME" > wrote in message news:<cBPyb.230510$jy.97087@clgrps13>...
> <'Kate> wrote in message ...
> > On 1 Dec 2003 06:42:46 -0800, (Vickychick)
> > >I saw a Dr. Phil the other night. It was a mother they revisited who
> > >has been in therapy. Her own daughter called her a monster, due to her
> > >horrible parenting style. But there was hope and she found it. It was
> > >amazing to see mom taking time out for herself. I think doing too much
> > >makes mothers more prone to fussiness and breakdowns. Any thoughts?
> > >Vicky
> > >(who takes time outs when "I" am angry.)
> >
> > Mothers are judged to a different standard than fathers. Because we
> > expect less from fathers, even the word "fathering" means fewer things,
> > fewer expectations than the word "mothering", then mothers will feel as
> > if there aren't enough hours in the day. Until the responsibilities of
> > the roles are truly equal with respect to responsibilities (income,
> > childcare, and housework), then mothers will continue to forego taking
> > time out for themselves. Fathers seem to be more able to do this. They
> > take the time that they need and then give to others. Perhaps it's
> > because of the way that we think of fathers. Their traditional role is
> > as income producer whereas mothers have traditionally taken care of
> > everything else regarding home and family. I can only theorize that the
> > idea of motherhood and fatherhood must change to catch up to the
> > economic changes in the operation of the family.
> >
> > 'Kate
> >
>
> I'm with you on this one Kate. I found that living with someone else
> created more problems than helped ease them. I found I was doing even more
> work, whereas that other person could have helped out more. I think when
> it's just me, I have only myself to count on, and when I was living with
> someone else, their expectations weren't in line with mine (clean house,
> laundry done, the basics really). *sigh* I want to be in a relationship
> where it's based on equality. I find that typically, even though I was
> working or going to school full-time that *I* was still responsible for the
> household duties and let me tell you, that didn't fly for very long. lol
>
> Christine


As it should be. A friend describes her hubby as another child. That is sad.
Kudos to you for not settling for less than what you want.
(you know how I feel about shacking anyway...)
V

[Vickychick]

(Joelle) wrote in message >...
> >I think Paul has a point about how a lot of women have higher
> >>standards about housekeeping than men. So they don't give men credit for
> what
> >>they do, or they complain and criticize what they do and so they don't do
> >it.
>
> >So rather than talk about what is going on, they withdraw help to teach
> >the little woman a lesson?
> >
> Well that really puts it back on men to look at it that way. I doubt they are
> thinking about "teaching her a lesson" - my guess is, they don't like being
> criticized so they don't do it. Kids are like that. People are like that.
> Yea, talking about it helps. I'm just offering the counter to the stereotype
> that "men never help around the house" with the other side that when they do,
> it's often not good enough.
>
> I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in charge" of
> the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a shared
> responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle


So right. You must have patience. I am now teaching J and C to iron. I
want them to be self sufficient when they are in college, etc. I have
set up the washing machine to arrows and stickers...put arrow
here....and a direction sheet nearby. Of course, we discussed the
dangers of the equipment too. It is supervised, but one day it won't
be.
BOTH a male and female child are doing the same chores and I do not
label them as "male or female" roles. That does not fly in my home.
V

[Tiffany]

Vickychick > wrote in message
om...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
>...
>
> >
> > I am not sure if the original post was on single parenting but I like to
add
> > that ALL parents fall into that trap of being to giving of themselves.
>
>
> Of course, but my original post is geared towards single parents,
> hence the newsgroup title.
>
> Of
> > what I see around me and in my profession, it is not more or less of a
> > single parenting thing. It is a parenting issue.
>
> Very much, but with a two parent household, functioning within normal
> limits, I see the stress is lessened. With a single person, you have
> to depend on family, friends, ex's to ease up some stress.
>
> I also will add, that in
> > homes where there are two parents, it seems to me that the man is more
> > likely to take time for himself then the women.
>
> That is not always true. The guy I am dating is a single dad and he is
> not taking too much time for himself. I think that is generalizing
> men.

But your case is different... he is a single dad..... my comment was
concerning 2 parent homes.


T

[Andrew]

"Vickychick" > wrote in message
om...
> (Joelle) wrote in message
>...
> > >I think Paul has a point about how a lot of women have higher
> > >>standards about housekeeping than men. So they don't give men credit
for
> > what
> > >>they do, or they complain and criticize what they do and so they don't
do
> > >it.
> >
> > >So rather than talk about what is going on, they withdraw help to teach
> > >the little woman a lesson?
> > >
> > Well that really puts it back on men to look at it that way. I doubt
they are
> > thinking about "teaching her a lesson" - my guess is, they don't like
being
> > criticized so they don't do it. Kids are like that. People are like
that.
> > Yea, talking about it helps. I'm just offering the counter to the
stereotype
> > that "men never help around the house" with the other side that when
they do,
> > it's often not good enough.
> >
> > I think there's a power thing going on, women still want to be "in
charge" of
> > the housework and want to set the standards. But if it really is a
shared
> > responsiblity, then you have to agree on the standards as well.
> >
> > Joelle
> > The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> > Augustine
> > Joelle
>
>
> So right. You must have patience. I am now teaching J and C to iron. I
> want them to be self sufficient when they are in college, etc. I have
> set up the washing machine to arrows and stickers...put arrow
> here....and a direction sheet nearby. Of course, we discussed the
> dangers of the equipment too. It is supervised, but one day it won't
> be.
> BOTH a male and female child are doing the same chores and I do not
> label them as "male or female" roles. That does not fly in my home.
> V

I have to say though that the roles still play a 'role' in my life. I have a
tendency to define myself as a man by my ability to look after my family,
and in this context look after generally means financial and
confrontational. I need to be able to provide enough money to keep my family
well, if anyone hassles any of my immediate circle then it is my role to
confront the 'hassler' and take some remedial action. This may only mean
taking the little brat to its mother and telling the mother that an apology
to my child might be in order in addition to some proper discipline at home
(or it could mean the Charles Bronson I'll come after you guys route, don't
know, in the four and a half year old circles not many gangsters or murders
as yet!) and I do tend to think of more household responsibilities when I
think of the female role. In practice, though, what each party does in any
relationship I have been involved in tends to be sort of mutually agreed
even if some of it just sort of happens like the potato peeling turning into
my responsibility (as I said I like it cos I find it easy, I'm really quick
and if I'm doing that I can't be given any other jobs I consider to be
lousy). In some ways single parent hood has been good in that its certainly
taught me a lot and I can do all the jobs required, know what is involved in
each so I know when and where sacrifices are being made. HanK is right in
that in some ways it is easier when there is no negotiation, you just get on
with all the jobs and make all the decisions, however it is also hard in
that there is lots to be done to bring a child up and I do think 2 would be
better. Sorry, rambling, good old Budweiser time outs! Anyhoo, with what I
know now and have been through I think I am a better person and a better
parent

Andrew

PS (still not tempted to buy an animated T shirt to go with my inspirational
emails though!)

[kat]

"Andrew" wrote in message ...
>
> I have to say though that the roles still play a 'role' in my life. I have
a
> tendency to define myself as a man by my ability to look after my family,
> and in this context look after generally means financial and
> confrontational. I need to be able to provide enough money to keep my
family
> well, if anyone hassles any of my immediate circle then it is my role to
> confront the 'hassler' and take some remedial action. This may only mean
> taking the little brat to its mother and telling the mother that an
apology
> to my child might be in order in addition to some proper discipline at
home


AHH HAHAHAHA!
Reminds me:
The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E Cheese place... Brand
new one opened up here a few months ago, and I haven't been to that place
for probably well over 10 years... (I loved Bullwinkles, which also shut
down years ago, but Chuck E Cheese was a place we went to very seldom)
Anyways, we got there, ate disgusting food, then played the games. B was
happy to play in the tunnels that ran up on the ceiling, and as I was off
acting 12, playing the games, trying and trying to get as many tickets as
possible, my mom was in that play area with B. I came back to reality and
my mom standing there, and she was laughing to herself. At first, I thought
she'd gone insane. Then she told me that the girl standing behind us a bit
came crying out of the tunnels and slide and ran to her mom to cry about
Bran in the tunnels trying to scare her. Ok, I figured this girl was about
5, and then the mom came over and said to my mom, "the little boy you are
with - my daughter came out and told me he was trying to scare her." I
looked at this woman. My mom said, that's your daughter over there? My
grandson is only 2 years old! (3 in a couple months, anyways, but still
only 2 :Þ lol) and the woman looked shocked, and was like, "He's only 2?
Oh, I thought he was way older and crawling around in the tunnels scaring
all the kids! She just couldn't get over it that he was not even 3 and her
daughter came out crying over that. She then said that it was her
daughter's 6th birthday and she was having her party here. It was just so
damn funny... We couldn't stop laughing. The headlines for Chuck E Cheese:
Girl, 6, terrified and tormented by almost 3 year old boy in tunnels!
Haha sorry, totally off topic, but what you said just reminded me of that
woman from the other night.


--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

<snip>

[Andrew]

"kat" > wrote in message
news:YJMzb.12682$bC.5287@clgrps13...
>
> "Andrew" wrote in message ...
> >
> > I have to say though that the roles still play a 'role' in my life. I
have
> a
> > tendency to define myself as a man by my ability to look after my
family,
> > and in this context look after generally means financial and
> > confrontational. I need to be able to provide enough money to keep my
> family
> > well, if anyone hassles any of my immediate circle then it is my role to
> > confront the 'hassler' and take some remedial action. This may only mean
> > taking the little brat to its mother and telling the mother that an
> apology
> > to my child might be in order in addition to some proper discipline at
> home
>
>
> AHH HAHAHAHA!
> Reminds me:
> The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E Cheese place...
Brand
> new one opened up here a few months ago, and I haven't been to that place
> for probably well over 10 years... (I loved Bullwinkles, which also shut
> down years ago, but Chuck E Cheese was a place we went to very seldom)
> Anyways, we got there, ate disgusting food, then played the games. B was
> happy to play in the tunnels that ran up on the ceiling, and as I was off
> acting 12, playing the games, trying and trying to get as many tickets as
> possible, my mom was in that play area with B. I came back to reality and
> my mom standing there, and she was laughing to herself. At first, I
thought
> she'd gone insane. Then she told me that the girl standing behind us a
bit
> came crying out of the tunnels and slide and ran to her mom to cry about
> Bran in the tunnels trying to scare her. Ok, I figured this girl was
about
> 5, and then the mom came over and said to my mom, "the little boy you are
> with - my daughter came out and told me he was trying to scare her." I
> looked at this woman. My mom said, that's your daughter over there? My
> grandson is only 2 years old! (3 in a couple months, anyways, but still
> only 2 :Þ lol) and the woman looked shocked, and was like, "He's only 2?
> Oh, I thought he was way older and crawling around in the tunnels scaring
> all the kids! She just couldn't get over it that he was not even 3 and her
> daughter came out crying over that. She then said that it was her
> daughter's 6th birthday and she was having her party here. It was just so
> damn funny... We couldn't stop laughing. The headlines for Chuck E
Cheese:
> Girl, 6, terrified and tormented by almost 3 year old boy in tunnels!
> Haha sorry, totally off topic, but what you said just reminded me of that
> woman from the other night.

Several thoughts:

OMG. you mean Chuck E Cheese is a real thing???!!? I thought it was just a
facetious name in a novel I've been reading recently. That's scary. Don't
know what else you guys are up to that side of the water but stop it now! I
sincerely hope 'Chuck E Cheese' is not a black tie establishment.

"Kat (slap face, slap face, slap face, throw water on head) get a grip girl!
It's OK. We're here for you. Stick with the program. We kicked off with Dr
Phil remember? Breath deep and try to focus" (the drugs do work!) LOL. O
dear, lost the plot entirely. :-)

How come everyone elses smileys look better than mine? Is it real or just a
self esteem thing?

Why am I still seeing this stuff about top posting below? Is there some kind
of message here? See if I peel your potatoes!!!

>
>
> --
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
>
> <snip>
>
>

[Andrew]

"kat" > wrote in message
news:YJMzb.12682$bC.5287@clgrps13...
>
> "Andrew" wrote in message ...
> >
>
>
> AHH HAHAHAHA!

> Haha sorry, totally off topic, but what you said just reminded me of that
> woman from the other night.
>
>

"Barman, I'll have one of what she's drinking!"
;-)

[turtledove]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:50:50 -0500, "Tiffany" >
> >
> >Joelle > wrote in message
> ...
>
> When they should be grateful that he ever lifted a finger to do
> something to contribute? This may surprise you but some men know darn
> well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
> white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
> to do laundry in the house.
>
> 'Kate
>

Nope, not me. He ruined several of my work clothes by drying them on high
(can we say SHRINK? They were dry clean only). Now he's just not allowed
to was MY clothes. He still washes his and DS. AND he takes care of the
kitchen for me when he's not working
:-D!!!

hugs,
*b

[Dennis Here]

CME wrote in message ...
>
><'Kate> wrote in message
>>
>> There are, of course, exceptional men and women who shared duties from
>> the start or have adopted non-traditional roles by choice.
>
>Yeah and where can I meet them??? lol


I'll collect you from Dublin airport ;-)

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...


> This may surprise you but some men know darn
>well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
>white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
>to do laundry in the house.


And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite capable
of changing the wheel themselves.

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

Joelle wrote in message

>I think young babies need mama's in a way that men can't fulfill.

Cobblers!
Why then did (and still does,) Freddie bypass his mother to get to me for
his comfort?
I'll tell you. Because I did 90% of the night feeding, he was only weeks old
initially and I did it until he stopped night feeds. The messages sent
through our eye contact during those precious hours has lasted and I expect
it will continue for some time to come. After the feed I used to nestle him
on my chest with his ear over my heartbeat. He felt safe, secure and at ease
with me, I became his comfort.
If I did it then so can any man. Most never get the opportunity because of
the prevailing attitudes being discussed in this thread.

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message

>But many mothers can use a breast pump (no, not all)
>and most fathers are very good nurturers when given the chance.

I had the chance, I also had the pumped breastmilk initially as Freddie's
mother was quite ill after giving birth. Later, when she was able to "take
over" it never happened so I carried on. I still am!

>I wish fathers felt their true value within the family. I think they've
>been made to feel superfluous by the changes in society and the more
>militant members of the women's rights movement.


Not my generation. Perhaps young men have been influenced more but that
would not be all bad. Getting the balance right seems to be the problem.


>
>A good man is a loving, kind, and considerate father. He stands by his
>children and spouse regardless of the ups and downs. He communicates
>openly with his wife about the children and works with her as a united
>team for the benefit of the family unit. He makes himself available and
>takes an interest in the children's interests. He wants to spend time
>with them because he genuinely likes them.
>
>As a husband, someone who asks, "How are you doing?" and means it.
>Someone who is honest, open, trustworthy and will not betray my
>confidences. Someone who sees me as a woman and not just a mother,
>housekeeper, or any of the other roles that I take on in life... and one
>who cherishes the marriage by doing things that are special to us as a
>couple. He would be intelligent and make me laugh but know when it's
>time to be serious too. He would not be prone to angry outbursts but be
>passionate about life and have a wide range of interests. He must be
>able to express himself without being demanding or putting others down.


Hiya 'Kate! [waving] here I am!

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

Andrew wrote in message ...

>
>PS Joelle, don't say things like 'he was older, 35'. It hurts. 35 is not
>older, it is prime rib from there till at least 45. (Dennis, help me out
>here?? 35-55, your sexiest years???) :-)


Well, that would be for them to decide!

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

Vickychick wrote in message >

>So right. You must have patience. I am now teaching J and C to iron.

I taught both older boys to iron. When married I used to do most of it
anyway. After seperation I was the one who always sent them to school in an
ironed uniform. Still the same with Freddie's mother, uniform comes back
un-ironed on a Sunday night! Since I started work I have bought another.
Just before I came on line tonight I was supervising Freddie making cakes!
Real man's work. Trouble is we fight over who gets to scrape the bowl!

Dennis

>BOTH a male and female child are doing the same chores and I do not
>label them as "male or female" roles. That does not fly in my home.
>V

[Dennis Here]

'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...
>
>I can only theorize that the
>idea of motherhood and fatherhood must change to catch up to the
>economic changes in the operation of the family.


Already changing .

Thirty years ago, men spent an average of 15 minutes a day with their
children. Today, it's three hours. And new research shows it's the amount of
'father time' which is driving down juvenile crime and pushing up levels of
literacy. Mark Honigsbaum meets the family men who are aspiring to be better
dads than their fathers were to them

Sunday November 30, 2003
The Observer
Full article, well worth the read at

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,1094709,00.html

Dennis

[Andrew]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> 'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...
>
>
> > This may surprise you but some men know darn
> >well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
> >white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
> >to do laundry in the house.
>
>
> And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
> helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite capable
> of changing the wheel themselves.
>
> Dennis
>
>

You never think about the obvious until its pointed out. That very example
is one I have done many times. I can also recall getting calls on the mobile
to dash over and rescue people by changing tyres. I'm going to have to lie
down and review it all now. Hmm.

Andrew

[Tiffany]

Dennis Here oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> 'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...
>
>
> > This may surprise you but some men know darn
> >well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
> >white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
> >to do laundry in the house.
>
>
> And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
> helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite capable
> of changing the wheel themselves.
>
> Dennis
>
>

Isn't that what AAA is for? Plus I have this program with my new car. I have
never changed a tire nor due I plan to. I do however, know HOW to thanks to
a mechanic friend. I also know how to change the oil and some other simple
things to a car.

I have dated men who didn't know **** about a car either BTW. ;)

T

[Tiffany]

Dennis Here oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> Joelle wrote in message
>
> >I think young babies need mama's in a way that men can't fulfill.
>
> Cobblers!
> Why then did (and still does,) Freddie bypass his mother to get to me for
> his comfort?
> I'll tell you. Because I did 90% of the night feeding, he was only weeks
old
> initially and I did it until he stopped night feeds. The messages sent
> through our eye contact during those precious hours has lasted and I
expect
> it will continue for some time to come. After the feed I used to nestle
him
> on my chest with his ear over my heartbeat. He felt safe, secure and at
ease
> with me, I became his comfort.
> If I did it then so can any man. Most never get the opportunity because of
> the prevailing attitudes being discussed in this thread.
>
> Dennis
>
>

I agree with you Dennis. It isn't all about who can breastfeed the child, as
I am sure there is a high percentage of mothers who don't breastfeed
anyways. It is about the parent spending time and nurturing the baby. That
can be done by any sex.

T

[Joelle]

>And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
>helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite capable
>of changing the wheel themselves

Actually flat tires are what I pay for Triple A for. Yea, I could do it, but
last time it was raining and I was more than happy to pay someone else to do
it.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Joelle]

>> >I think young babies need mama's in a way that men can't fulfill.

> Cobblers!

Yea well I knew I was going to **** some people off by saying that. I just
know what I know. Paul doesn't believe in anedoctal evidence, but mine
convinces me, yours convinces you. I know that I decided my babies needed me.
It wasn't that they didn't need their daddy, but daddy alone was not enough for
them. Not saying that mama alone would have been enough. I know that it is
important for single parents to be assured that they can do it all, and I'm
sure that most do fine and kids are resiliant and survive. But nothing and
nobody will ever convince me that one is as good as two.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Betsy]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> 'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...
>
>
> > This may surprise you but some men know darn
> >well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
> >white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
> >to do laundry in the house.
>
>
> And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
> helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite capable
> of changing the wheel themselves.
>
> Dennis
>
>
Not me!!! In fact...when my father came to 'help' me one night...he stopped
because he dropped things out of his shirt pocket. I took over jacking up
the car, and had the tire off and the spare on as fast as he could do it. I
always check out the location of the jack and the spare tire, when I get a
new vehicle; or when I rent one. I do have AAA roadside assistance, but
they are good for only 3 free visits, so it's always best to know how to
change a flat tire.

Betsy

[Betsy]

"Andrew" > wrote in message
...
>
> "kat" > wrote in message
> news:YJMzb.12682$bC.5287@clgrps13...
> >
> > "Andrew" wrote in message ...
> > >
> > > I have to say though that the roles still play a 'role' in my life. I
> have
> > a
> > > tendency to define myself as a man by my ability to look after my
> family,
> > > and in this context look after generally means financial and
> > > confrontational. I need to be able to provide enough money to keep my
> > family
> > > well, if anyone hassles any of my immediate circle then it is my role
to
> > > confront the 'hassler' and take some remedial action. This may only
mean
> > > taking the little brat to its mother and telling the mother that an
> > apology
> > > to my child might be in order in addition to some proper discipline at
> > home
> >
> >
> > AHH HAHAHAHA!
> > Reminds me:
> > The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E Cheese place...
> Brand
> > new one opened up here a few months ago, and I haven't been to that
place
> > for probably well over 10 years... (I loved Bullwinkles, which also shut
> > down years ago, but Chuck E Cheese was a place we went to very seldom)
> > Anyways, we got there, ate disgusting food, then played the games. B
was
> > happy to play in the tunnels that ran up on the ceiling, and as I was
off
> > acting 12, playing the games, trying and trying to get as many tickets
as
> > possible, my mom was in that play area with B. I came back to reality
and
> > my mom standing there, and she was laughing to herself. At first, I
> thought
> > she'd gone insane. Then she told me that the girl standing behind us a
> bit
> > came crying out of the tunnels and slide and ran to her mom to cry about
> > Bran in the tunnels trying to scare her. Ok, I figured this girl was
> about
> > 5, and then the mom came over and said to my mom, "the little boy you
are
> > with - my daughter came out and told me he was trying to scare her." I
> > looked at this woman. My mom said, that's your daughter over there? My
> > grandson is only 2 years old! (3 in a couple months, anyways, but still
> > only 2 :Þ lol) and the woman looked shocked, and was like, "He's only 2?
> > Oh, I thought he was way older and crawling around in the tunnels
scaring
> > all the kids! She just couldn't get over it that he was not even 3 and
her
> > daughter came out crying over that. She then said that it was her
> > daughter's 6th birthday and she was having her party here. It was just
so
> > damn funny... We couldn't stop laughing. The headlines for Chuck E
> Cheese:
> > Girl, 6, terrified and tormented by almost 3 year old boy in tunnels!
> > Haha sorry, totally off topic, but what you said just reminded me of
that
> > woman from the other night.
>
> Several thoughts:
>
> OMG. you mean Chuck E Cheese is a real thing???!!? I thought it was just a
> facetious name in a novel I've been reading recently. That's scary. Don't
> know what else you guys are up to that side of the water but stop it now!
I
> sincerely hope 'Chuck E Cheese' is not a black tie establishment.
>
> "Kat (slap face, slap face, slap face, throw water on head) get a grip
girl!
> It's OK. We're here for you. Stick with the program. We kicked off with Dr
> Phil remember? Breath deep and try to focus" (the drugs do work!) LOL. O
> dear, lost the plot entirely. :-)
>
> How come everyone elses smileys look better than mine? Is it real or just
a
> self esteem thing?
>
> Why am I still seeing this stuff about top posting below? Is there some
kind
> of message here? See if I peel your potatoes!!!
>
> >
> >

It's just kats sig. line now. I like it. Sassy. I need to get mine back
on here.
Betsy
--
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunch and good with
ketchup.
> > --
> > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Joelle]

> I do have AAA roadside assistance, but
>they are good for only 3 free visits, so it's always best to know how to
>change a flat tire.

If I had more than 3 flat tires in a year, I'd start to wonder about my tires
or where I've been driving!

I did recently have a flat tire in the rain and while waiting was quite
impressed that about 5 people stopped and asked if I needed help. And no I was
not standing on the roadside in a mini-skirt.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Tiffany]

Joelle > wrote in message
...
> > I do have AAA roadside assistance, but
> >they are good for only 3 free visits, so it's always best to know how to
> >change a flat tire.
>
> If I had more than 3 flat tires in a year, I'd start to wonder about my
tires
> or where I've been driving!
>
> I did recently have a flat tire in the rain and while waiting was quite
> impressed that about 5 people stopped and asked if I needed help. And no
I was
> not standing on the roadside in a mini-skirt.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

Come on... you know you were showing leg. ;)

T

[Joelle]

>And no
>I was
>> not standing on the roadside in a mini-skirt.

>Come on... you know you were showing leg. ;)

Actually I was in my bunny suit.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Betsy]

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> > I do have AAA roadside assistance, but
> >they are good for only 3 free visits, so it's always best to know how to
> >change a flat tire.
>
> If I had more than 3 flat tires in a year, I'd start to wonder about my
tires
> or where I've been driving!
>
> I did recently have a flat tire in the rain and while waiting was quite
> impressed that about 5 people stopped and asked if I needed help. And no
I was
> not standing on the roadside in a mini-skirt.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle
>
Well, the three visits aren't just for tires, it's for jump starts or
locking keys in car as well. :-)
Betsy

[Paul Griffiths]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:37:28 -0500, "Tiffany" >

<snip>

> >Maybe you should spank them like kids then. lol
>
> I've never had to spank a child.

Ditto.

> I have, on the other hand, been asked to spank.... ah, that's
> another story altogether.

Also ditto.

Are you me and if so should I claim my $10?


--
Paul Griffiths

[Joelle]

>Well, the three visits aren't just for tires, it's for jump starts or
>locking keys in car as well. :-)

Ah. I never really noticed if I had a limit,I don't have too many emergencies,
I've got jumper cables and I know lots of people who know how to break into a
locked car. Once my cat actually locked himself in the car. I also like AAA
for the travel books and maps.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[HanK]

"kat"

>Reminds me:
>The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E >Cheese place...

Classy arn't you.

[HanK]

>
> "Barman, I'll have one of what she's drinking!"
> ;-)
>
>

White spirit one assumes.

[CME]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> CME wrote in message ...
> >
> ><'Kate> wrote in message
> >>
> >> There are, of course, exceptional men and women who shared duties from
> >> the start or have adopted non-traditional roles by choice.
> >
> >Yeah and where can I meet them??? lol
>
>
> I'll collect you from Dublin airport ;-)
>
> Dennis
>

LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. ;)

Christine

[CME]

"Andrew" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dennis Here" oureply>
> wrote in message ...
> >
> > 'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...
> >
> >
> > > This may surprise you but some men know darn
> > >well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
> > >white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
> > >to do laundry in the house.
> >
> >
> > And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
> > helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite
capable
> > of changing the wheel themselves.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
>
> You never think about the obvious until its pointed out. That very example
> is one I have done many times. I can also recall getting calls on the
mobile
> to dash over and rescue people by changing tyres. I'm going to have to lie
> down and review it all now. Hmm.
>
> Andrew
>

*ahem* uhhh that's why I have AMA (Alberta Motor Association) they do all
that stuff for me, because hey, I wasn't interested in learning as a teen...
I drive, fill it with gas/oil and that's it. :(

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 17:25:01 -0000, "Dennis Here"
> oureply>
> >
> >'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...
> >
> >
> >> This may surprise you but some men know darn
> >>well that if they shrink a few sweaters or put something dark in the
> >>white wash a few times, that will be the last time they are ever asked
> >>to do laundry in the house.
> >
> >
> >And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
> >helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite
capable
> >of changing the wheel themselves.
> >
> >Dennis
>
> I'm sure they do. On the other hand, there are men who don't know how
> to release the flat tyre from under the car. I was called out on a
> bitter night for just such an occasion. Two grown ups, wife and
> husband, three kids standing around shivvering and niether had a lick of
> common sense.
>
> I think that single parents more often break the mold. We have to or we
> won't make it.
>
> 'Kate
>

Hey! I know how to do that!!! lol Being stranded on the highway outside of
Calgary with 2 adult women and 4 kids (one being an infant) sure makes a
girl learn quick.. but I will admit to changing into a tight shirt to get us
help because EVERYONE passed us, and we did need some help (the spare was
flat... hey, it wasn't MY van. lol) And you want to know who ended up
stopping after 2 hours??? A woman, then 2 more guys stopped 15 mins after
her... I thought Albertans were supposed to be friendly? She even followed
us to the Wal-Mart (on her spare) so we could buy a new tire. ;) Ahhh
summer holidays.


Christine

[CME]

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> >And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
> >helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite
capable
> >of changing the wheel themselves
>
> Actually flat tires are what I pay for Triple A for. Yea, I could do it,
but
> last time it was raining and I was more than happy to pay someone else to
do
> it.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

Exactly. lol

Christine

[CME]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> Joelle wrote in message
>
> >I think young babies need mama's in a way that men can't fulfill.
>
> Cobblers!
> Why then did (and still does,) Freddie bypass his mother to get to me for
> his comfort?
> I'll tell you. Because I did 90% of the night feeding, he was only weeks
old
> initially and I did it until he stopped night feeds. The messages sent
> through our eye contact during those precious hours has lasted and I
expect
> it will continue for some time to come. After the feed I used to nestle
him
> on my chest with his ear over my heartbeat. He felt safe, secure and at
ease
> with me, I became his comfort.
> If I did it then so can any man. Most never get the opportunity because of
> the prevailing attitudes being discussed in this thread.
>
> Dennis
>

Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his chest for
strength and comfort...

K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 17:54:06 -0000, "Dennis Here"
> oureply>
> >
> >'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message
> >
> >>But many mothers can use a breast pump (no, not all)
> >>and most fathers are very good nurturers when given the chance.
> >
> >I had the chance, I also had the pumped breastmilk initially as Freddie's
> >mother was quite ill after giving birth. Later, when she was able to
"take
> >over" it never happened so I carried on. I still am!
>
> I'll bet that was disappointing. We all want the best for our children.
> Maybe she felt inadequate or missed a necessary bonding period with
> Freddie. Or maybe motherhood just wasn't for her.
>
> I was disappointed by Phil's lack of interest in the children. I asked
> for his help. We don't all get what we expect or want.
>
> >>I wish fathers felt their true value within the family. I think they've
> >>been made to feel superfluous by the changes in society and the more
> >>militant members of the women's rights movement.
> >
> >
> >Not my generation. Perhaps young men have been influenced more but that
> >would not be all bad. Getting the balance right seems to be the problem.
>
> Or maybe not in your culture. Or not individually. Our perspectives
> may be skewed a bit given that we had spouses with a mental illness that
> compromised their ability to bond with others.
>
> >>A good man is a loving, kind, and considerate father. He stands by his
> >>children and spouse regardless of the ups and downs. He communicates
> >>openly with his wife about the children and works with her as a united
> >>team for the benefit of the family unit. He makes himself available and
> >>takes an interest in the children's interests. He wants to spend time
> >>with them because he genuinely likes them.
> >>
> >>As a husband, someone who asks, "How are you doing?" and means it.
> >>Someone who is honest, open, trustworthy and will not betray my
> >>confidences. Someone who sees me as a woman and not just a mother,
> >>housekeeper, or any of the other roles that I take on in life... and one
> >>who cherishes the marriage by doing things that are special to us as a
> >>couple. He would be intelligent and make me laugh but know when it's
> >>time to be serious too. He would not be prone to angry outbursts but be
> >>passionate about life and have a wide range of interests. He must be
> >>able to express himself without being demanding or putting others down.
> >
> >
> >Hiya 'Kate! [waving] here I am!
> >
> >Dennis
>
> I know, darlin'... but you're so darn far away. If I were there, we'd
> have a go at it.
>
> 'Kate
>

(snicker) a "go at it" eh? Kate, you perv. lol

Christine

[CME]

"HanK" > wrote in message
...
>
> "kat"
>
> >Reminds me:
> >The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E >Cheese place...
>
> Classy arn't you.
>
Ah well, not everyone walks all over people to afford Disneyland, we do what
we can and it's for the kids... but then again, you wouldn't know what
that's about.

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:46:59 GMT, "CME" >
>
> >Hey! I know how to do that!!! lol Being stranded on the highway outside
of
> >Calgary with 2 adult women and 4 kids (one being an infant) sure makes a
> >girl learn quick.. but I will admit to changing into a tight shirt to get
us
> >help because EVERYONE passed us, and we did need some help (the spare was
> >flat... hey, it wasn't MY van. lol) And you want to know who ended up
> >stopping after 2 hours??? A woman, then 2 more guys stopped 15 mins after
> >her... I thought Albertans were supposed to be friendly? She even
followed
> >us to the Wal-Mart (on her spare) so we could buy a new tire. ;) Ahhh
> >summer holidays.
> >
> >
> >Christine
>
> What a nice woman! We have a highway patrol.. the phone number is on
> the back of our window registration sticker. Getting stuck on the side
> of a highway is so dangerous.
>
> 'Kate

Uhh not here in Canada... honestly, that never even crossed my mind. :|

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:53:43 GMT, "CME" >
>
> >(snicker) a "go at it" eh? Kate, you perv. lol
> >
> >Christine
>
> <smile> Oh come on... you saw his pic. I'm still among the land of the
> living.
>
> 'Kate

I did? When? Damn I don't remember!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Send it over. lmao

Christine

[Lisa aka Surfer]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:DXWAb.24078$d35.17514@edtnps84...
>
> <'Kate> wrote in message
...
> > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:46:59 GMT, "CME" >
> >
> > >Hey! I know how to do that!!! lol Being stranded on the highway
outside
> of
> > >Calgary with 2 adult women and 4 kids (one being an infant) sure makes
a
> > >girl learn quick.. but I will admit to changing into a tight shirt to
get
> us
> > >help because EVERYONE passed us, and we did need some help (the spare
was
> > >flat... hey, it wasn't MY van. lol) And you want to know who ended up
> > >stopping after 2 hours??? A woman, then 2 more guys stopped 15 mins
after
> > >her... I thought Albertans were supposed to be friendly? She even
> followed
> > >us to the Wal-Mart (on her spare) so we could buy a new tire. ;) Ahhh
> > >summer holidays.
> > >
> > >
> > >Christine
> >
> > What a nice woman! We have a highway patrol.. the phone number is on
> > the back of our window registration sticker. Getting stuck on the side
> > of a highway is so dangerous.
> >
> > 'Kate
>
> Uhh not here in Canada... honestly, that never even crossed my mind. :|
>
> Christine
>
>

I think that's a little naive, read the news. Even after only 10 years, I
have seen a dramatic increase in the number of violent incidents in Eastern
Ontario. Alberta is no exception.

Lisa

[Lisa aka Surfer]

>
> >What would you personally
> >consider makes a 'good man' all political considerations aside?
>
> A good man is a loving, kind, and considerate father. He stands by his
> children and spouse regardless of the ups and downs. He communicates
> openly with his wife about the children and works with her as a united
> team for the benefit of the family unit. He makes himself available and
> takes an interest in the children's interests. He wants to spend time
> with them because he genuinely likes them.
>
> As a husband, someone who asks, "How are you doing?" and means it.
> Someone who is honest, open, trustworthy and will not betray my
> confidences. Someone who sees me as a woman and not just a mother,
> housekeeper, or any of the other roles that I take on in life... and one
> who cherishes the marriage by doing things that are special to us as a
> couple. He would be intelligent and make me laugh but know when it's
> time to be serious too. He would not be prone to angry outbursts but be
> passionate about life and have a wide range of interests. He must be
> able to express himself without being demanding or putting others down.
>
>

Why Kate, how interesting, that's the exact man that PROPOSED TO ME on
Saturday.

Can you believe it? We're getting married :)))))))

Lisa

[Dennis Here]

'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...

"Andrew>>

>>"Dennis Here" >>wrote in message
>>>
>>> And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
>>> helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite
capable
>>> of changing the wheel themselves.



>>You never think about the obvious until its pointed out. That very example
>>is one I have done many times. I can also recall getting calls on the
mobile
>>to dash over and rescue people by changing tyres. I'm going to have to lie
>>down and review it all now. Hmm.



>When you do that, include that many women haven't been exposed to car
>repair.

So how do you explain the fact that a woman can work out what has gone wrong
with a complex piece of engineering, like a sewing machine, in a few
seconds, whilst a man cannot?

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

Tiffany wrote in message ...
>
>I have dated men who didn't know **** about a car either BTW. ;)


But could they do the washing without shrinking your woolly jumper?

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...
>>
>>Hiya 'Kate! [waving] here I am!
>
>I know, darlin'... but you're so darn far away. If I were there, we'd
>have a go at it.


You could always take a year out from your studies to do a bit of travelling
;-)

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

Lisa aka Surfer wrote in message ...
>
>Why Kate, how interesting, that's the exact man that PROPOSED TO ME on
>Saturday.
>
>Can you believe it? We're getting married :)))))))


So I assume that you said yes then.
Was it a romantic bended knee job?
Just curious.
Congratulations!

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

CME wrote in message ...
>
>"Dennis Here" wrote in message

>> I'll collect you from Dublin airport ;-)


>LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. ;)


Phew!
Lucky I'm English :-p

Dennis

[Joelle]

>So how do you explain the fact that a woman can work out what has gone wrong
>with a complex piece of engineering, like a sewing machine, in a few
>seconds, whilst a man cannot?

I can't figure out my sewing machine. When it doesn't work, I take it in to be
repaired ....by a a man.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Dennis Here]

CME wrote in message ...
>>
>
>Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his chest
for
>strength and comfort...
>
>K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol


In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport. Just
home from a hard day on a building site.
You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?

Dennis

[CME]

"Lisa aka Surfer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:DXWAb.24078$d35.17514@edtnps84...
> >
> > <'Kate> wrote in message
> ...
> > > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:46:59 GMT, "CME" >
> > >
> > > >Hey! I know how to do that!!! lol Being stranded on the highway
> outside
> > of
> > > >Calgary with 2 adult women and 4 kids (one being an infant) sure
makes
> a
> > > >girl learn quick.. but I will admit to changing into a tight shirt to
> get
> > us
> > > >help because EVERYONE passed us, and we did need some help (the spare
> was
> > > >flat... hey, it wasn't MY van. lol) And you want to know who ended
up
> > > >stopping after 2 hours??? A woman, then 2 more guys stopped 15 mins
> after
> > > >her... I thought Albertans were supposed to be friendly? She even
> > followed
> > > >us to the Wal-Mart (on her spare) so we could buy a new tire. ;)
Ahhh
> > > >summer holidays.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Christine
> > >
> > > What a nice woman! We have a highway patrol.. the phone number is on
> > > the back of our window registration sticker. Getting stuck on the
side
> > > of a highway is so dangerous.
> > >
> > > 'Kate
> >
> > Uhh not here in Canada... honestly, that never even crossed my mind. :|
> >
> > Christine
> >
> >
>
> I think that's a little naive, read the news. Even after only 10 years, I
> have seen a dramatic increase in the number of violent incidents in
Eastern
> Ontario. Alberta is no exception.
>
> Lisa

Uh no actually I'm not naive, I study crime in University... watching the
news is not an accurate portrayal of crime.

Christine

[CME]

"Lisa aka Surfer" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> >
> > >What would you personally
> > >consider makes a 'good man' all political considerations aside?
> >
> > A good man is a loving, kind, and considerate father. He stands by his
> > children and spouse regardless of the ups and downs. He communicates
> > openly with his wife about the children and works with her as a united
> > team for the benefit of the family unit. He makes himself available and
> > takes an interest in the children's interests. He wants to spend time
> > with them because he genuinely likes them.
> >
> > As a husband, someone who asks, "How are you doing?" and means it.
> > Someone who is honest, open, trustworthy and will not betray my
> > confidences. Someone who sees me as a woman and not just a mother,
> > housekeeper, or any of the other roles that I take on in life... and one
> > who cherishes the marriage by doing things that are special to us as a
> > couple. He would be intelligent and make me laugh but know when it's
> > time to be serious too. He would not be prone to angry outbursts but be
> > passionate about life and have a wide range of interests. He must be
> > able to express himself without being demanding or putting others down.
> >
> >
>
> Why Kate, how interesting, that's the exact man that PROPOSED TO ME on
> Saturday.
>
> Can you believe it? We're getting married :)))))))
>
> Lisa
>

Congrats... at least one of us has got their happy ending. ;) (Ya ya you
too Bri. lol)

Christine

[CME]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> CME wrote in message ...
> >
> >"Dennis Here" wrote in message
>
> >> I'll collect you from Dublin airport ;-)
>
>
> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. ;)
>
>
> Phew!
> Lucky I'm English :-p
>
> Dennis
>

Ah well, then... but it's not like English men are exempt from the dashing
romantic stereotype. ;)

Christine

[Tiffany]

Dennis Here oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> 'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...
>
> "Andrew>>
>
> >>"Dennis Here" >>wrote in message
> >>>
> >>> And plenty of women know how to stand beside a flat tyred car looking
> >>> helpless and letting a gallant male do the job when they are quite
> capable
> >>> of changing the wheel themselves.
>
>
>
> >>You never think about the obvious until its pointed out. That very
example
> >>is one I have done many times. I can also recall getting calls on the
> mobile
> >>to dash over and rescue people by changing tyres. I'm going to have to
lie
> >>down and review it all now. Hmm.
>
>
>
> >When you do that, include that many women haven't been exposed to car
> >repair.
>
> So how do you explain the fact that a woman can work out what has gone
wrong
> with a complex piece of engineering, like a sewing machine, in a few
> seconds, whilst a man cannot?
>
> Dennis
>
>

I will add that in my previous job, I ran a huge machine and did mechanical
work on it. When trouble shooting with my official mechanic, I would often
help and even have the answers. I would say I am more mechanical then some
guys I know. I just don't prefer to do that sort of thing.

T

[CME]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> CME wrote in message ...
> >>
> >
> >Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his chest
> for
> >strength and comfort...
> >
> >K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol
>
>
> In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport. Just
> home from a hard day on a building site.
> You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?
>
> Dennis
>

*cough* uhhh no, not at all... ;) Got that pic Kate and I were reminiscing
about? lol Damn, perhaps it's time for a new one though. lol

Christine

[Tiffany]

Dennis Here oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> Tiffany wrote in message ...
> >
> >I have dated men who didn't know **** about a car either BTW. ;)
>
>
> But could they do the washing without shrinking your woolly jumper?
>
> Dennis
>
>

lol.... I have always done my own laundry. But if a guy even does my
laundry, I will marry him. ;)

[Tiffany]

Dennis Here oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> CME wrote in message ...
> >>
> >
> >Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his chest
> for
> >strength and comfort...
> >
> >K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol
>
>
> In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport. Just
> home from a hard day on a building site.
> You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?
>
> Dennis
>
>

omg Dennis... I didn't think you were one to toot your own horn. lol

T

[Joelle]

>Lisa aka Surfer wrote in message ...

>Why Kate, how interesting, that's the exact man that PROPOSED TO ME on
>>Saturday.
>>
>>Can you believe it? We're getting married :)))))))

I think news like this deserves it's own thread!

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[CME]

"Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dennis Here" oureply>
> wrote in message ...
> >
> > CME wrote in message ...
> > >>
> > >
> > >Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his
chest
> > for
> > >strength and comfort...
> > >
> > >K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol
> >
> >
> > In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport.
Just
> > home from a hard day on a building site.
> > You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?
>
> Not mentioning the beer gut and missing teeth? LOL........sorry, I was
> thinking american constuction workers ;-)
>

LOL, oh yeah baby... ;)

Christine

[Paul Fritz]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> CME wrote in message ...
> >>
> >
> >Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his chest
> for
> >strength and comfort...
> >
> >K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol
>
>
> In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport. Just
> home from a hard day on a building site.
> You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?

Not mentioning the beer gut and missing teeth? LOL........sorry, I was
thinking american constuction workers ;-)

>
> Dennis
>
>

[Vickychick]

"Andrew" > wrote in message >...

>
> I have to say though that the roles still play a 'role' in my life. I have a
> tendency to define myself as a man by my ability to look after my family,
> and in this context look after generally means financial and
> confrontational. I need to be able to provide enough money to keep my family
> well, if anyone hassles any of my immediate circle then it is my role to
> confront the 'hassler' and take some remedial action. This may only mean
> taking the little brat to its mother and telling the mother that an apology
> to my child might be in order in addition to some proper discipline at home
> (or it could mean the Charles Bronson I'll come after you guys route, don't
> know, in the four and a half year old circles not many gangsters or murders
> as yet!) and I do tend to think of more household responsibilities when I
> think of the female role. In practice, though, what each party does in any
> relationship I have been involved in tends to be sort of mutually agreed
> even if some of it just sort of happens like the potato peeling turning into
> my responsibility (as I said I like it cos I find it easy, I'm really quick
> and if I'm doing that I can't be given any other jobs I consider to be
> lousy). In some ways single parent hood has been good in that its certainly
> taught me a lot and I can do all the jobs required, know what is involved in
> each so I know when and where sacrifices are being made. HanK is right in
> that in some ways it is easier when there is no negotiation, you just get on
> with all the jobs and make all the decisions, however it is also hard in
> that there is lots to be done to bring a child up and I do think 2 would be
> better. Sorry, rambling, good old Budweiser time outs! Anyhoo, with what I
> know now and have been through I think I am a better person and a better
> parent
>
> Andrew
>
> PS (still not tempted to buy an animated T shirt to go with my inspirational
> emails though!)

You can do anything you put your mind too.
Don't feel like you are rambling. You should have seen me at the
Mexican restaurant with the Coronas...dah dah dah dah hahhhh (mexican
hat dance and a full stomach of beer and tamals do not mix!)
V

[Vickychick]

"Dennis Here" oureply> wrote in message >...
> Vickychick wrote in message >
>
> >So right. You must have patience. I am now teaching J and C to iron.
>
> I taught both older boys to iron. When married I used to do most of it
> anyway. After seperation I was the one who always sent them to school in an
> ironed uniform. Still the same with Freddie's mother, uniform comes back
> un-ironed on a Sunday night! Since I started work I have bought another.
> Just before I came on line tonight I was supervising Freddie making cakes!
> Real man's work. Trouble is we fight over who gets to scrape the bowl!
>
> Dennis
>
> >BOTH a male and female child are doing the same chores and I do not
> >label them as "male or female" roles. That does not fly in my home.
> >V



You go Dennis!
Freddie will make a wonderful hubby & father one day I am sure, due to
his guidance from you!
V

[Lisa aka Surfer]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:xj5Bb.26392$d35.13349@edtnps84...
>
> "Lisa aka Surfer" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "CME" > wrote in message
> > news:DXWAb.24078$d35.17514@edtnps84...
> > >
> > > <'Kate> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:46:59 GMT, "CME" >
> > > >
> > > > >Hey! I know how to do that!!! lol Being stranded on the highway
> > outside
> > > of
> > > > >Calgary with 2 adult women and 4 kids (one being an infant) sure
> makes
> > a
> > > > >girl learn quick.. but I will admit to changing into a tight shirt
to
> > get
> > > us
> > > > >help because EVERYONE passed us, and we did need some help (the
spare
> > was
> > > > >flat... hey, it wasn't MY van. lol) And you want to know who ended
> up
> > > > >stopping after 2 hours??? A woman, then 2 more guys stopped 15 mins
> > after
> > > > >her... I thought Albertans were supposed to be friendly? She even
> > > followed
> > > > >us to the Wal-Mart (on her spare) so we could buy a new tire. ;)
> Ahhh
> > > > >summer holidays.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Christine
> > > >
> > > > What a nice woman! We have a highway patrol.. the phone number is
on
> > > > the back of our window registration sticker. Getting stuck on the
> side
> > > > of a highway is so dangerous.
> > > >
> > > > 'Kate
> > >
> > > Uhh not here in Canada... honestly, that never even crossed my mind.
:|
> > >
> > > Christine
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I think that's a little naive, read the news. Even after only 10 years,
I
> > have seen a dramatic increase in the number of violent incidents in
> Eastern
> > Ontario. Alberta is no exception.
> >
> > Lisa
>
> Uh no actually I'm not naive, I study crime in University... watching the
> news is not an accurate portrayal of crime.
>
> Christine
>
>
I'll give you that watching the news is not an accurate protrayal of crime.
That's just the stuff we hear about. Then there's all the **** that we
never hear about. Text books aside, Canada is not the safe bubble that we
would like to think. In comparison to other countries maybe, but, I think I
prefer to err on the side of caution.

[Lisa aka Surfer]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> Lisa aka Surfer wrote in message ...
> >
> >Why Kate, how interesting, that's the exact man that PROPOSED TO ME on
> >Saturday.
> >
> >Can you believe it? We're getting married :)))))))
>
>
> So I assume that you said yes then.
> Was it a romantic bended knee job?
> Just curious.
> Congratulations!
>
> Dennis
>
>
I definately said yes, well, once I got passed the o my gods :)
We had lunch at a very intimate spot, not quite what he was looking for but
lovely none the less. He did not get on bended knee, although he said that
he was going to if it had felt right. He was so sweet, he was shaking when
he held my hand across the table and proposed. The ring was in a beautiful
porcelain music box, still can't place the tune that it plays though. We
are both very excited and thrilled, to say the least.

Thanks for the congrats!!
Lisa

[Lisa aka Surfer]

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> >Lisa aka Surfer wrote in message ...
>
> >Why Kate, how interesting, that's the exact man that PROPOSED TO ME on
> >>Saturday.
> >>
> >>Can you believe it? We're getting married :)))))))
>
> I think news like this deserves it's own thread!
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

Thanks Joelle!!! My poor friends, I'm going to be so obnoxious until the
wedding day! I've already been ring knocking with my girlfriends :)

Lisa

[Lisa aka Surfer]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:Gk5Bb.26393$d35.5441@edtnps84...
>
> "Lisa aka Surfer" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >What would you personally
> > > >consider makes a 'good man' all political considerations aside?
> > >
> > > A good man is a loving, kind, and considerate father. He stands by
his
> > > children and spouse regardless of the ups and downs. He communicates
> > > openly with his wife about the children and works with her as a united
> > > team for the benefit of the family unit. He makes himself available
and
> > > takes an interest in the children's interests. He wants to spend time
> > > with them because he genuinely likes them.
> > >
> > > As a husband, someone who asks, "How are you doing?" and means it.
> > > Someone who is honest, open, trustworthy and will not betray my
> > > confidences. Someone who sees me as a woman and not just a mother,
> > > housekeeper, or any of the other roles that I take on in life... and
one
> > > who cherishes the marriage by doing things that are special to us as a
> > > couple. He would be intelligent and make me laugh but know when it's
> > > time to be serious too. He would not be prone to angry outbursts but
be
> > > passionate about life and have a wide range of interests. He must be
> > > able to express himself without being demanding or putting others
down.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Why Kate, how interesting, that's the exact man that PROPOSED TO ME on
> > Saturday.
> >
> > Can you believe it? We're getting married :)))))))
> >
> > Lisa
> >
>
> Congrats... at least one of us has got their happy ending. ;) (Ya ya you
> too Bri. lol)
>
> Christine
>
>
Thanks Christine. I've always believed that we will all have a happy ending
in our own time :)

Lisa

[Lisa aka Surfer]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:11:42 -0500, "Lisa aka Surfer"
> >
>
> >Why Kate, how interesting, that's the exact man that PROPOSED TO ME on
> >Saturday.
> >
> >Can you believe it? We're getting married :)))))))
>
> Can I believe it??? Of course I can! You're a wonderful woman and
> deserve every happiness. Mazel tov!
>
> 'Kate
>
LOL...awww thanks Kate. My son is thrilled, Peter is a wonderful man, and a
great Dad to Ben. This could not have been a better choice for us.

Lisa

[Lisa aka Surfer]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:ym5Bb.26394$d35.12306@edtnps84...
>
> "Dennis Here" oureply>
> wrote in message ...
> >
> > CME wrote in message ...
> > >
> > >"Dennis Here" wrote in message
> >
> > >> I'll collect you from Dublin airport ;-)
> >
> >
> > >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. ;)
> >
> >
> > Phew!
> > Lucky I'm English :-p
> >
> > Dennis
> >
>
> Ah well, then... but it's not like English men are exempt from the dashing
> romantic stereotype. ;)
>
> Christine
>
>

Ever heard of Prince Charles? (couldn't resist)

[CME]

"Lisa aka Surfer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:xj5Bb.26392$d35.13349@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Lisa aka Surfer" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "CME" > wrote in message
> > > news:DXWAb.24078$d35.17514@edtnps84...
> > > >
> > > > <'Kate> wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:46:59 GMT, "CME" >
> > > > >
> > > > > >Hey! I know how to do that!!! lol Being stranded on the highway
> > > outside
> > > > of
> > > > > >Calgary with 2 adult women and 4 kids (one being an infant) sure
> > makes
> > > a
> > > > > >girl learn quick.. but I will admit to changing into a tight
shirt
> to
> > > get
> > > > us
> > > > > >help because EVERYONE passed us, and we did need some help (the
> spare
> > > was
> > > > > >flat... hey, it wasn't MY van. lol) And you want to know who
ended
> > up
> > > > > >stopping after 2 hours??? A woman, then 2 more guys stopped 15
mins
> > > after
> > > > > >her... I thought Albertans were supposed to be friendly? She
even
> > > > followed
> > > > > >us to the Wal-Mart (on her spare) so we could buy a new tire. ;)
> > Ahhh
> > > > > >summer holidays.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Christine
> > > > >
> > > > > What a nice woman! We have a highway patrol.. the phone number is
> on
> > > > > the back of our window registration sticker. Getting stuck on the
> > side
> > > > > of a highway is so dangerous.
> > > > >
> > > > > 'Kate
> > > >
> > > > Uhh not here in Canada... honestly, that never even crossed my mind.
> :|
> > > >
> > > > Christine
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think that's a little naive, read the news. Even after only 10
years,
> I
> > > have seen a dramatic increase in the number of violent incidents in
> > Eastern
> > > Ontario. Alberta is no exception.
> > >
> > > Lisa
> >
> > Uh no actually I'm not naive, I study crime in University... watching
the
> > news is not an accurate portrayal of crime.
> >
> > Christine
> >
> >
> I'll give you that watching the news is not an accurate protrayal of
crime.
> That's just the stuff we hear about. Then there's all the **** that we
> never hear about. Text books aside, Canada is not the safe bubble that we
> would like to think. In comparison to other countries maybe, but, I think
I
> prefer to err on the side of caution.

I never said Canada was this glorious little haven, I'm just saying the
chances of our getting jacked on the side of the highway outside of Calgary
in the middle of broad daylight on one of the most busiest highways, is slim
to none. I prefer to live my life, not live it in fear of being victimized.

Christine

[CME]

"Lisa aka Surfer" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:ym5Bb.26394$d35.12306@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Dennis Here"
oureply>
> > wrote in message ...
> > >
> > > CME wrote in message ...
> > > >
> > > >"Dennis Here" wrote in message
> > >
> > > >> I'll collect you from Dublin airport ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. ;)
> > >
> > >
> > > Phew!
> > > Lucky I'm English :-p
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> >
> > Ah well, then... but it's not like English men are exempt from the
dashing
> > romantic stereotype. ;)
> >
> > Christine
> >
> >
>
> Ever heard of Prince Charles? (couldn't resist)

Yeah but look at the ladies that swoon for him... ugh.

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:08:10 GMT, "CME" >
>
> >I never said Canada was this glorious little haven, I'm just saying the
> >chances of our getting jacked on the side of the highway outside of
Calgary
> >in the middle of broad daylight on one of the most busiest highways, is
slim
> >to none. I prefer to live my life, not live it in fear of being
victimized.
> >
> >Christine
>
> Well... actually, I meant that when a car is stuck on the side of the
> highway where other cars are driving very fast and very close to the
> disabled car, the possibility of surviving a crash is decreased. The
> number of cars on a busy highway is greater than the number of cars on a
> side street. Sometimes a driver just drifts over, tired or distracted,
> or thinks that there is a new lane and doesn't realize until it's too
> late, that the car on the side is disabled and stopped. I have a friend
> who lost his fiancee, one of her twin daughters, and the fiancee's best
> friend that way. The driver of the car that hit her car as she was
> exiting the vehicle took his eyes off the road to retrieve a CD player.
> I hadn't even thought of being jacked.
>
> 'Kate
>

Well we were in a driveway of sorts... not to mention we have quite a large
whatchamacallit on the side of the highway... but yes, I see your point.

Christine

[Paul Griffiths]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:04:31 -0000, "Paul Griffiths" >
> ><'Kate> wrote in message
> ...

> >Are you me and if so should I claim my $10?
>
> I'm getting a headache just thinking about that. >8-\

It's sad when you get to the age that you can only think about it, isn't it?

I'm guessing of course.


--
Paul Griffiths

[Tiffany]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:08:10 GMT, "CME" >
>
> >I never said Canada was this glorious little haven, I'm just saying the
> >chances of our getting jacked on the side of the highway outside of
Calgary
> >in the middle of broad daylight on one of the most busiest highways, is
slim
> >to none. I prefer to live my life, not live it in fear of being
victimized.
> >
> >Christine
>
> Well... actually, I meant that when a car is stuck on the side of the
> highway where other cars are driving very fast and very close to the
> disabled car, the possibility of surviving a crash is decreased. The
> number of cars on a busy highway is greater than the number of cars on a
> side street. Sometimes a driver just drifts over, tired or distracted,
> or thinks that there is a new lane and doesn't realize until it's too
> late, that the car on the side is disabled and stopped. I have a friend
> who lost his fiancee, one of her twin daughters, and the fiancee's best
> friend that way. The driver of the car that hit her car as she was
> exiting the vehicle took his eyes off the road to retrieve a CD player.
> I hadn't even thought of being jacked.
>
> 'Kate
>
>

Once my car broke down on the highway, right in the midst of a very narrow
lane situation. We were off the lane as far as we could go but when trucks
went by, I swear they were an inch from the car. We didn't know what the
heck to do. I bet within 10 minutes a tow truck was there to pull us out. He
told us that he drives the highways waiting for that sort of thing to
happen. That was what he was suppose to do and he would get paid by the
state. That was many years ago though. Who knows if they still do that. It
is scary though.

Tiff

[Dennis Here]

CME wrote in message ...
>
>"Dennis Here" wrote in message
>>
>> CME wrote in message ...
>> >>
>> >
>> >Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his chest
>> for
>> >strength and comfort...
>> >
>> >K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol
>>
>>
>> In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport. Just
>> home from a hard day on a building site.
>> You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?
>
>*cough* uhhh no, not at all... ;) Got that pic Kate and I were reminiscing
>about? lol Damn, perhaps it's time for a new one though. lol


You want to hug a picture?

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message

>"Dennis Here" wrote
>>
>>CME wrote in message ...
>>>>
>>>
>>>Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his chest
>>for
>>>strength and comfort...
>>>
>>>K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol
>>
>>
>>In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport. Just
>>home from a hard day on a building site.
>>You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?

>ROFL... why do I want to say, "No... do you?"


Now now! Don't get personal about Christine's biceps and chest.

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message ...

>On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 19:41:52 -0000, "Dennis Here"

>>
>>You could always take a year out from your studies to do a bit of
travelling
>>;-)
>
>But Dennis, I've only another 2 years of school. Surely I'm worth
>waiting for.


Only two years?
Going for early retirement are you?
Still waiting ;-)

Dennis

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

CME wrote in message ...
>
>"Dennis Here" wrote in message
>>
>> CME wrote in message ...
>> >
>> >"Dennis Here" wrote in message
>>
>> >> I'll collect you from Dublin airport ;-)
>>
>>
>> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. ;)
>>
>>
>> Phew!
>> Lucky I'm English :-p
>>
>
>Ah well, then... but it's not like English men are exempt from the dashing
>romantic stereotype. ;)


Stereotypical? Certainly not.
Dashing? Moreso in my, er, youth!
Romantic? Incurable.

Dennis

[CME]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> CME wrote in message ...
> >
> >"Dennis Here" wrote in message
> >>
> >> CME wrote in message ...
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his
chest
> >> for
> >> >strength and comfort...
> >> >
> >> >K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol
> >>
> >>
> >> In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport.
Just
> >> home from a hard day on a building site.
> >> You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?
> >
> >*cough* uhhh no, not at all... ;) Got that pic Kate and I were
reminiscing
> >about? lol Damn, perhaps it's time for a new one though. lol
>
>
> You want to hug a picture?
>
> Dennis
>

No, just a half naked, muscled pic... that should suffice. lol (innocent
smile)

Christine

[CME]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> 'Kate <'Kate> wrote in message
>
> >"Dennis Here" wrote
> >>
> >>CME wrote in message ...
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his
chest
> >>for
> >>>strength and comfort...
> >>>
> >>>K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol
> >>
> >>
> >>In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport.
Just
> >>home from a hard day on a building site.
> >>You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?
>
> >ROFL... why do I want to say, "No... do you?"
>
>
> Now now! Don't get personal about Christine's biceps and chest.
>
> Dennis
>

Hey, I have a great chest... the biceps could use a lil work though. lol

Christine

[CME]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> CME wrote in message ...
> >
> >"Dennis Here" wrote in message
> >>
> >> CME wrote in message ...
> >> >
> >> >"Dennis Here" wrote in message
> >>
> >> >> I'll collect you from Dublin airport ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. ;)
> >>
> >>
> >> Phew!
> >> Lucky I'm English :-p
> >>
> >
> >Ah well, then... but it's not like English men are exempt from the
dashing
> >romantic stereotype. ;)
>
>
> Stereotypical? Certainly not.
> Dashing? Moreso in my, er, youth!
> Romantic? Incurable.
>
> Dennis
>

Oh yeah, Kate, you and I need to take a lil trip to Ireland... anyone else
wanna come???

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:22:17 GMT, "CME" >
>
> >Oh yeah, Kate, you and I need to take a lil trip to Ireland... anyone
else
> >wanna come???
> >
> >Christine
>
> That depends... which part?
>
> 'Kate

To the part where Dennis and his half naked torso is... hello, stick with
the program. lol

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:09:41 GMT, "CME" >
> >
> ><'Kate> wrote in message
...
> >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:22:17 GMT, "CME" >
> >>
> >> >Oh yeah, Kate, you and I need to take a lil trip to Ireland... anyone
> >else
> >> >wanna come???
> >> >
> >> >Christine
> >>
> >> That depends... which part?
> >>
> >> 'Kate
> >
> >To the part where Dennis and his half naked torso is... hello, stick with
> >the program. lol
> >
> >Christine
>
> Oooh... that part. I think you're on your own. Dennis is firmly in my
> "too tempting to give in" category of men.
>
> 'Kate

Since when is too tempting a bad thing???

Christine

[Tiffany]

CME > wrote in message
news:In7Db.74149$bC.28312@clgrps13...
>
> <'Kate> wrote in message
...
> > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:09:41 GMT, "CME" >
> > >
> > ><'Kate> wrote in message
> ...
> > >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:22:17 GMT, "CME" >
> > >>
> > >> >Oh yeah, Kate, you and I need to take a lil trip to Ireland...
anyone
> > >else
> > >> >wanna come???
> > >> >
> > >> >Christine
> > >>
> > >> That depends... which part?
> > >>
> > >> 'Kate
> > >
> > >To the part where Dennis and his half naked torso is... hello, stick
with
> > >the program. lol
> > >
> > >Christine
> >
> > Oooh... that part. I think you're on your own. Dennis is firmly in my
> > "too tempting to give in" category of men.
> >
> > 'Kate
>
> Since when is too tempting a bad thing???
>
> Christine
>
>
>

OK... I just had to comment on this whole Dennis thing. God knows you both
are correct that he is a fine man. I wouldn't really say he is in the too
tempting to give in category though.... I would put him in the he is to far
away category. But Christine, you are right.... to tempting is not a bad
thing! ;)

T

[CME]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> CME > wrote in message
> news:In7Db.74149$bC.28312@clgrps13...
> >
> > <'Kate> wrote in message
> ...
> > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:09:41 GMT, "CME" >
> > > >
> > > ><'Kate> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:22:17 GMT, "CME" >
> > > >>
> > > >> >Oh yeah, Kate, you and I need to take a lil trip to Ireland...
> anyone
> > > >else
> > > >> >wanna come???
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Christine
> > > >>
> > > >> That depends... which part?
> > > >>
> > > >> 'Kate
> > > >
> > > >To the part where Dennis and his half naked torso is... hello, stick
> with
> > > >the program. lol
> > > >
> > > >Christine
> > >
> > > Oooh... that part. I think you're on your own. Dennis is firmly in
my
> > > "too tempting to give in" category of men.
> > >
> > > 'Kate
> >
> > Since when is too tempting a bad thing???
> >
> > Christine
> >
> >
> >
>
> OK... I just had to comment on this whole Dennis thing. God knows you both
> are correct that he is a fine man. I wouldn't really say he is in the too
> tempting to give in category though.... I would put him in the he is to
far
> away category. But Christine, you are right.... to tempting is not a bad
> thing! ;)
>
> T

But that's the fun Tiff, too far thus it's just a pipe dream... come on
girl, don't burst our collective bubbles. lol

Christine

[CME]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:38:00 GMT, "CME" >
>
> >Since when is too tempting a bad thing???
> >
> >Christine
>
> When the temptee lives far, far away.
>
> 'Kate


Oh I know... but it's fun to dream.

Christine

[Tiffany]

CME > wrote in message
news:MFaDb.11038$OJ.3854@edtnps84...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > CME > wrote in message
> > news:In7Db.74149$bC.28312@clgrps13...
> > >
> > > <'Kate> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:09:41 GMT, "CME" >
> > > > >
> > > > ><'Kate> wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > >> On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:22:17 GMT, "CME" >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >Oh yeah, Kate, you and I need to take a lil trip to Ireland...
> > anyone
> > > > >else
> > > > >> >wanna come???
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >Christine
> > > > >>
> > > > >> That depends... which part?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 'Kate
> > > > >
> > > > >To the part where Dennis and his half naked torso is... hello,
stick
> > with
> > > > >the program. lol
> > > > >
> > > > >Christine
> > > >
> > > > Oooh... that part. I think you're on your own. Dennis is firmly in
> my
> > > > "too tempting to give in" category of men.
> > > >
> > > > 'Kate
> > >
> > > Since when is too tempting a bad thing???
> > >
> > > Christine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > OK... I just had to comment on this whole Dennis thing. God knows you
both
> > are correct that he is a fine man. I wouldn't really say he is in the
too
> > tempting to give in category though.... I would put him in the he is to
> far
> > away category. But Christine, you are right.... to tempting is not a bad
> > thing! ;)
> >
> > T
>
> But that's the fun Tiff, too far thus it's just a pipe dream... come on
> girl, don't burst our collective bubbles. lol
>
> Christine
>
>

Sorry! OK... he is just a hop away...... use your miles and fly for a couple
bucks women! Just give me details when you get back!

[turtledove]

"Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
> I think that in general, there is a vast chasm between what men consider
> 'clean' and what women do ;-)
>
> >
>

And that is why we have a men's bathroom and MY bathroom at my house!!
;-)!!!

*b

[Paul Fritz]

Let me guess....the men's bathroom is in the basement. LOL (at least it
is at my sister-in-law's house)

"turtledove" > wrote in message
news:19jDb.12870$gN.10899@fed1read05...
>
> "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>
> > I think that in general, there is a vast chasm between what men consider
> > 'clean' and what women do ;-)
> >
> > >
> >
>
> And that is why we have a men's bathroom and MY bathroom at my house!!
> ;-)!!!
>
> *b
>
>

[turtledove]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> Joelle wrote in message
>
> >I think young babies need mama's in a way that men can't fulfill.
>
> Cobblers!
> Why then did (and still does,) Freddie bypass his mother to get to me for
> his comfort?
> I'll tell you. Because I did 90% of the night feeding, he was only weeks
old
> initially and I did it until he stopped night feeds. The messages sent
> through our eye contact during those precious hours has lasted and I
expect
> it will continue for some time to come. After the feed I used to nestle
him
> on my chest with his ear over my heartbeat. He felt safe, secure and at
ease
> with me, I became his comfort.
> If I did it then so can any man. Most never get the opportunity because of
> the prevailing attitudes being discussed in this thread.
>
> Dennis
>
I wholeheartedly agree. I think that children instinctively "know" who is
there to protect and take care of them. Even though my husband is not my
son's birth father, and they didn't meet until my son was almost 5...my son
KNOWS that my husband is there to take care of him and to hold him and
comfort him when he's hurt (physically or mentally).

It's all about action and bonding, not gender.

hugs,
*b

[Paul Fritz]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:1a7Bb.39881$bC.16903@clgrps13...
>
> "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Dennis Here"
oureply>
> > wrote in message ...
> > >
> > > CME wrote in message ...
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >Damn, that's what I need right about now.. a man to hold me to his
> chest
> > > for
> > > >strength and comfort...
> > > >
> > > >K, I'm buying that ticket to Ireland. lol
> > >
> > >
> > > In that case I'll pop into the shower before I drive to the airport.
> Just
> > > home from a hard day on a building site.
> > > You don't mind a muscular chest and powerful biceps do you?
> >
> > Not mentioning the beer gut and missing teeth? LOL........sorry, I
was
> > thinking american constuction workers ;-)
> >
>
> LOL, oh yeah baby... ;)
>
> Christine
>

Of course, what is even scarier is the women construction workers. ;-)

>

[kat]

"HanK" > wrote in message
...
>
> "kat"
>
> >Reminds me:
> >The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E >Cheese place...
>
> Classy arn't you.
>

Maybe, maybe not. What's it to you? At least I can spell common, every day
words and know how contractions go about becoming one word from two.

What's wrong with Chuck E Cheese? I don't see anything, aside from the
food. FYI, it also cost over $40 for the night, which IS expensive for 2
adults and a child who seems to eat very little. Classy, no, not really.
Expensive, yes, very much so.
I'll take my kids where THEY will enjoy themselves when we go out for
dinner. Why would I take them to the newest dinner theater? I'll pay what,
$50+ for a plate and they can sit around and have no fun, because THAT would
be classy.
Idiot.

[Andrew]

Hi Kat,

don't lose your sig line cos of me, look I'm posting on top again ho ho ho
(ps, not the only guilty party stir, stir,stir). Since our last chat I have
had a look at Chuck E Cheese website, does not show me what it provides for
the kids but looks similar to the concept of some of the kids play areas we
have here so could be good. I often take my kid to Playtown or
WackyWarehouse (was Playbarn) which have soft indoor play areas, kids
parties and really lousy food. Was actually thinking hmm, wonder if the
franchise has hit here yet and if it would be worthwhile?

Was the 40 American dollars? I am always amazed at how much more expensive
food (and houses) seem to be over here (UK).

Andrew

"kat" > wrote in message
news:cMMDb.90775$bC.9562@clgrps13...
>
> "HanK" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "kat"
> >
> > >Reminds me:
> > >The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E >Cheese place...
> >
> > Classy arn't you.
> >
>
> Maybe, maybe not. What's it to you? At least I can spell common, every
day
> words and know how contractions go about becoming one word from two.
>
> What's wrong with Chuck E Cheese? I don't see anything, aside from the
> food. FYI, it also cost over $40 for the night, which IS expensive for 2
> adults and a child who seems to eat very little. Classy, no, not really.
> Expensive, yes, very much so.
> I'll take my kids where THEY will enjoy themselves when we go out for
> dinner. Why would I take them to the newest dinner theater? I'll pay
what,
> $50+ for a plate and they can sit around and have no fun, because THAT
would
> be classy.
> Idiot.
>
>

[kat]

"Andrew" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Kat,
>
> don't lose your sig line cos of me, look I'm posting on top again ho ho ho
> (ps, not the only guilty party stir, stir,stir). Since our last chat I
have
> had a look at Chuck E Cheese website, does not show me what it provides
for
> the kids but looks similar to the concept of some of the kids play areas
we
> have here so could be good. I often take my kid to Playtown or
> WackyWarehouse (was Playbarn) which have soft indoor play areas, kids
> parties and really lousy food. Was actually thinking hmm, wonder if the
> franchise has hit here yet and if it would be worthwhile?
>
> Was the 40 American dollars? I am always amazed at how much more expensive
> food (and houses) seem to be over here (UK).
>
> Andrew

<snip cause of Andrew's love of top posting!!!!>

Yea, they're all the same thing, basically. It's just gross food that only
kids would love, along with games and play areas. $40 Canadian dollars, or
there abouts. Our money isn't even worth peanuts.

[Alex Nemeth]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:43:04 GMT, "kat" > wrote:

>
>"HanK" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "kat"
>>
>> >Reminds me:
>> >The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E >Cheese place...
>>
>> Classy arn't you.
>>
>
>Maybe, maybe not. What's it to you? At least I can spell common, every day
>words and know how contractions go about becoming one word from two.
>
>What's wrong with Chuck E Cheese? I don't see anything, aside from the
>food. FYI, it also cost over $40 for the night, which IS expensive for 2
>adults and a child who seems to eat very little.

only $40.00!!!!! you got off easy :-) I haven't been to Chuck E
Cheese since my daughter was 12 ( about 11 yrs ago ) Do they still
have all the games???




> Classy, no, not really.

Hey!!!! Where else can you boggie with a 6 ft Mouse ?????


<grumble> I pass 2 of them each tuesday/Thursday night on my way to
class. Now I'm going to have to stop.

Alex

[dolores]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:tPPCb.59799$d35.4923@edtnps84...
>
> "Dennis Here" oureply>
> wrote in message ...
> >
> > CME wrote in message ...
> > >
> > >"Dennis Here" wrote in message
> > >>
> > >> CME wrote in message ...
> > >> >
> > >> >"Dennis Here" wrote in message
> > >>
> > >> >> I'll collect you from Dublin airport ;-)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. ;)

"Sucker" being the definitive I'd say!...

> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Phew!
> > >> Lucky I'm English :-p

Bit of Guiness mustard and she'll never know the difference Dennis.....lolol

Dolores

[dolores]

"Andrew" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Kat,
>
> don't lose your sig line cos of me, look I'm posting on top again ho ho ho
> (ps, not the only guilty party stir, stir,stir). Since our last chat I
have
> had a look at Chuck E Cheese website, does not show me what it provides
for
> the kids but looks similar to the concept of some of the kids play areas
we
> have here so could be good. I often take my kid to Playtown or
> WackyWarehouse

Wacky Warehouse......Now that brings me back 10 or so years ago.....never
seemed to be able to get out of that place without some other kids' ****
......and I mean that literally......even the park was cleaner....and that is
saying something......

What part of UK are you in Andrew?......I lived in Berkshire......returned
home to Ireland.....in the hope that Ikea will follow!!..lolol

(was Playbarn) which have soft indoor play areas, kids
> parties and really lousy food. Was actually thinking hmm, wonder if the
> franchise has hit here yet and if it would be worthwhile?
>
> Was the 40 American dollars? I am always amazed at how much more expensive
> food (and houses) seem to be over here (UK).

You wanna try Ireland.....Damn!......E100 goes nowhere.....Kinda hoping I;ll
find oil in my field

Dolores
>
> Andrew
>
> "kat" > wrote in message
> news:cMMDb.90775$bC.9562@clgrps13...
> >
> > "HanK" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "kat"
> > >
> > > >Reminds me:
> > > >The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E >Cheese
place...
> > >
> > > Classy arn't you.
> > >
> >
> > Maybe, maybe not. What's it to you? At least I can spell common, every
> day
> > words and know how contractions go about becoming one word from two.
> >
> > What's wrong with Chuck E Cheese? I don't see anything, aside from the
> > food. FYI, it also cost over $40 for the night, which IS expensive for
2
> > adults and a child who seems to eat very little. Classy, no, not
really.
> > Expensive, yes, very much so.
> > I'll take my kids where THEY will enjoy themselves when we go out for
> > dinner. Why would I take them to the newest dinner theater? I'll pay
> what,
> > $50+ for a plate and they can sit around and have no fun, because THAT
> would
> > be classy.
> > Idiot.
> >
> >
>
>

[Andrew]

"dolores" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Andrew" > wrote in message
> ...

> What part of UK are you in Andrew?......I lived in Berkshire......returned
> home to Ireland.....in the hope that Ikea will follow!!..lolol
>
>
> Dolores

Hi Dolores, I am in South London (well, Purley, London Borough of Croydon,
some consider us London some don't. As far as I am concerned we have London
phone no's, are in travel card zone, its called the London Borough of etc so
its London). Hmm, Ikea, scary place, only been into one once, lots of marks
on the floor saying this way out that lie to you! They lead you round and
round to new places and places you have been before but don't know how you
got there. By the time I did find my way out I was so sweaty and panicked
forgot what I wanted from there. Evil place!!!

Andrew

[Andrew]

"dolores" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Andrew" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi Kat,
> >
> > don't lose your sig line cos of me, look I'm posting on top again ho ho
ho
> > (ps, not the only guilty party stir, stir,stir). Since our last chat I
> have
> > had a look at Chuck E Cheese website, does not show me what it provides
> for
> > the kids but looks similar to the concept of some of the kids play areas
> we
> > have here so could be good. I often take my kid to Playtown or
> > WackyWarehouse
>
> Wacky Warehouse......Now that brings me back 10 or so years ago.....never
> seemed to be able to get out of that place without some other kids' ****
> .....and I mean that literally......even the park was cleaner....and that
is
> saying something......
>
> What part of UK are you in Andrew?......I lived in Berkshire......returned
> home to Ireland.....in the hope that Ikea will follow!!..lolol
>
> (was Playbarn) which have soft indoor play areas, kids
> > parties and really lousy food. Was actually thinking hmm, wonder if the
> > franchise has hit here yet and if it would be worthwhile?
> >
> > Was the 40 American dollars? I am always amazed at how much more
expensive
> > food (and houses) seem to be over here (UK).
>
> You wanna try Ireland.....Damn!......E100 goes nowhere.....Kinda hoping
I;ll
> find oil in my field
>
> Dolores
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > "kat" > wrote in message
> > news:cMMDb.90775$bC.9562@clgrps13...
> > >
> > > "HanK" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "kat"
> > > >
> > > > >Reminds me:
> > > > >The other day, we went out for dinner to that Chuck E >Cheese
> place...
> > > >
> > > > Classy arn't you.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Maybe, maybe not. What's it to you? At least I can spell common,
every
> > day
> > > words and know how contractions go about becoming one word from two.
> > >
> > > What's wrong with Chuck E Cheese? I don't see anything, aside from
the
> > > food. FYI, it also cost over $40 for the night, which IS expensive
for
> 2
> > > adults and a child who seems to eat very little. Classy, no, not
> really.
> > > Expensive, yes, very much so.
> > > I'll take my kids where THEY will enjoy themselves when we go out for
> > > dinner. Why would I take them to the newest dinner theater? I'll pay
> > what,
> > > $50+ for a plate and they can sit around and have no fun, because THAT
> > would
> > > be classy.
> > > Idiot.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Hi Dolores, in South London (Purley) posted a reply before but machine ate
it. Also replied with my views on Ikea, they let you in but make it damn
difficult to find the exit again. Went in once only.

Andrew

[Dennis Here]

dolores wrote in message ...
>
>"CME" wrote in message
>> > >>
>> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. >
>Bit of Guinness mustard and she'll never know the difference
Dennis.....lolol


But where do you suggest I spread it?

Dennis

[CME]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> dolores wrote in message ...
> >
> >"CME" wrote in message
> >> > >>
> >> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. >
> >Bit of Guinness mustard and she'll never know the difference
> Dennis.....lolol
>
>
> But where do you suggest I spread it?
>
> Dennis
>

Hmmm dirty thoughts, I'm having dirty thoughts...

Christine

[Dennis Here]

CME wrote in message ...
>
>"Dennis Here" >wrote in
>>
>> dolores wrote in message ...
>> >
>> >"CME" wrote in message
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. >
>> >Bit of Guinness mustard and she'll never know the difference
>> Dennis.....lolol
>>
>>
>> But where do you suggest I spread it?
>
>Hmmm dirty thoughts, I'm having dirty thoughts...


Thoughts?
I was hoping you were thinking more about deeds!
Disclaimer.
I take no responsibility for anything any other user has to say through the
channel of my organ.

Dennis

[CME]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> CME wrote in message ...
> >
> >"Dennis Here" >wrote in
> >>
> >> dolores wrote in message ...
> >> >
> >> >"CME" wrote in message
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. >
> >> >Bit of Guinness mustard and she'll never know the difference
> >> Dennis.....lolol
> >>
> >>
> >> But where do you suggest I spread it?
> >
> >Hmmm dirty thoughts, I'm having dirty thoughts...
>
>
> Thoughts?
> I was hoping you were thinking more about deeds!
> Disclaimer.
> I take no responsibility for anything any other user has to say through
the
> channel of my organ.
>
> Dennis
>

Nah, don't worry about it... I like your organ better than the other organ
flappin her lips.

Christine

[Tiffany]

CME > wrote in message
news:za5Kb.162193$ss5.52587@clgrps13...
>
> "Dennis Here" oureply>
> wrote in message ...
> >
> > CME wrote in message ...
> > >
> > >"Dennis Here" >wrote in
> > >>
> > >> dolores wrote in message ...
> > >> >
> > >> >"CME" wrote in message
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. >
> > >> >Bit of Guinness mustard and she'll never know the difference
> > >> Dennis.....lolol
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> But where do you suggest I spread it?
> > >
> > >Hmmm dirty thoughts, I'm having dirty thoughts...
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> > I was hoping you were thinking more about deeds!
> > Disclaimer.
> > I take no responsibility for anything any other user has to say through
> the
> > channel of my organ.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
>
> Nah, don't worry about it... I like your organ better than the other organ
> flappin her lips.
>
> Christine
>
>

lol... good one. ;)

[Andrew]

"Dennis Here" oureply>
wrote in message ...
>
> CME wrote in message ...
> >
> >"Dennis Here" >wrote in
> >>
> >> dolores wrote in message ...
> >> >
> >> >"CME" wrote in message
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. >
> >> >Bit of Guinness mustard and she'll never know the difference
> >> Dennis.....lolol
> >>
> >>
> >> But where do you suggest I spread it?
> >
> >Hmmm dirty thoughts, I'm having dirty thoughts...
>
>
> Thoughts?
> I was hoping you were thinking more about deeds!
> Disclaimer.
> I take no responsibility for anything any other user has to say through
the
> channel of my organ.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>

Crude question.

Has anyone else seen the curry flavoured condoms they have in some pubs
vending machines in the gents here? If so does anyone have anything they are
willing to tell me about them? Popular with anyone?

Andrew

[Tiffany]

Andrew > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dennis Here" oureply>
> wrote in message ...
> >
> > CME wrote in message ...
> > >
> > >"Dennis Here" >wrote in
> > >>
> > >> dolores wrote in message ...
> > >> >
> > >> >"CME" wrote in message
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. >
> > >> >Bit of Guinness mustard and she'll never know the difference
> > >> Dennis.....lolol
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> But where do you suggest I spread it?
> > >
> > >Hmmm dirty thoughts, I'm having dirty thoughts...
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> > I was hoping you were thinking more about deeds!
> > Disclaimer.
> > I take no responsibility for anything any other user has to say through
> the
> > channel of my organ.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> >
>
> Crude question.
>
> Has anyone else seen the curry flavoured condoms they have in some pubs
> vending machines in the gents here? If so does anyone have anything they
are
> willing to tell me about them? Popular with anyone?
>
> Andrew
>
>
The only place I want curry is on my Thai food.

T

[CME]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Andrew > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Dennis Here"
oureply>
> > wrote in message ...
> > >
> > > CME wrote in message ...
> > > >
> > > >"Dennis Here" >wrote in
> > > >>
> > > >> dolores wrote in message ...
> > > >> >
> > > >> >"CME" wrote in message
> > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> >> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. >
> > > >> >Bit of Guinness mustard and she'll never know the difference
> > > >> Dennis.....lolol
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> But where do you suggest I spread it?
> > > >
> > > >Hmmm dirty thoughts, I'm having dirty thoughts...
> > >
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > > I was hoping you were thinking more about deeds!
> > > Disclaimer.
> > > I take no responsibility for anything any other user has to say
through
> > the
> > > channel of my organ.
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Crude question.
> >
> > Has anyone else seen the curry flavoured condoms they have in some pubs
> > vending machines in the gents here? If so does anyone have anything they
> are
> > willing to tell me about them? Popular with anyone?
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> The only place I want curry is on my Thai food.
>
> T
>

Ya I'm with ya there. lol

Christine

[Dennis Here]

CME wrote in message ...
>
>"Dennis Here" wrote in

>> CME wrote in message ...
>> >
>> >"Dennis Here" >wrote in
>> >>
>> >> dolores wrote in message ...
>> >> >
>> >> >"CME" wrote in message
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> >LOL don't tease me Dennis... I'm a sucker for Irish men. >
>> >> >Bit of Guinness mustard and she'll never know the difference
>> >> Dennis.....lolol
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> But where do you suggest I spread it?
>> >
>> >Hmmm dirty thoughts, I'm having dirty thoughts...
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>> I was hoping you were thinking more about deeds!
>> Disclaimer.
>> I take no responsibility for anything any other user has to say through
>the
>> channel of my organ.
>>
>
>Nah, don't worry about it... I like your organ better than the other organ
>flappin her lips.


Strange, I thought it was the same one :-p8

Dennis

[Dennis Here]

Andrew wrote in message ...
>
>Crude question.
>
>Has anyone else seen the curry flavoured condoms they have in some pubs
>vending machines in the gents here? If so does anyone have anything they
are
>willing to tell me about them? Popular with anyone?


An ex girlfriend of mine was always apprehensive about certain things in her
mouth (the vegetarian!) so I offered her a choice of curry, chocolate or
cherry flavour. She opted for the chocolate and said it tasted like cocoa.
Not sure about the curry flavour, it might burn your lips later.

Dennis