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View Full Version : Why not fight?


Freedom
June 25th 03, 04:40 AM
Many articles speak about how unnatural things are in custody, but no
mention of fighting the corrupt system that feeds the inequity, injustice
and perversion.


http://single-parent.family.org/Web/groups/public/@fotf_singleparent/documen
ts/articles/spf001280.cfm

Father Drew
June 25th 03, 08:15 AM
Wow, I'm psychic. I just posted a vary similar msg in the thread above this
one.
You are right though. Here is what I'm doing on top of my complaining. I
am a board member of AZ Father's Rights. I spend 1 Sunday a month, for 10
hours, training noobs on how to look up the statutes, cases law, ect. at the
local university law library I take phone calls at home from fathers in
trouble, or fathers that just need a shoulder to cry on. I write to my
governor, senetors, and yes, even Geroge Bush himself. I've even written to
Dr. Phil last week in fact, just to see if we could get some press. I
attend monthly AZFR meetings to help the noobs and answer the questions that
I can. I donate personal web space and application development time for the
AZFR message board. I attend hearings of fathers that need support in the
courtroom. I had a friend leave my house about 4 hours ago after going
through his paperwork with him and his girlfriend regarding paternity,
custody, and support. I tell everyone I know about how the laws are and my
position. This cause consumes my life.

So that's what I've been up too. My posts in here are just playtime. The
real work is done outside of this idiot-box. Not to say I don't enjoy the
discussions here. Many of you have given me a much needed head-check a time
or two.
-Drew

"Layne Barlow" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:40:32 -0400, "Freedom" >
> wrote:
>
> >Many articles speak about how unnatural things are in custody, but no
> >mention of fighting the corrupt system that feeds the inequity, injustice
> >and perversion.
> >
> >
>
>http://single-parent.family.org/Web/groups/public/@fotf_singleparent/docume
n
> >ts/articles/spf001280.cfm
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Depends on where you look. This site address you posted appears to be
> another one of those afraid to offend public faces.
>
> It's called a free press. They can publish what they want.
>
> You don't like it, start your own.
>
> Personally, I have considerable disdain for those who whine and
> complain but won't do anything beyond that .... especially when it
> comes to supporting a real proposal to do just what you said --
> "fighting the corrupt system that feeds the inequity, injustice
> and perversion."
>
> So what are *you* willing do besides just talk?
>

Lecher9000
June 25th 03, 01:17 PM
Drew,

You deserve applause for your efforts. Do you also hold down a job
while doing all this?

The main reason, I think, that ncp's do not "get involved" and fight is that
we are all working fulltime, paying huge cs awards, and and almlost always
braindead from working so much.

I, an NCP paying CS, have been unemployed for a long time, and have been
looking in vain, for a way to help the NCP cause. I looked on the net and found
NOTHING to join, NOWHERE to go to attend a meeting, etc.

Finally, a month ago, I found the Million Dads March, on Father's Day, in
D.C. The MDM was haphazardly organized, unfortunately, and I can find NOTHING
on the net about how many people showed up, who spoke, etc. I almost attended,
but since I has my son that weekend, decided to stay home.

I thought of having a sidewalk protest in front of my local courthouse, with
a sign or two, but wanted at least one other guy to join me. Don't know any
other ncp's
living near me.

I guess the protest by a courthouse with a sign is the way to go. Judges,
lawyers, secretaries, etc would get the advertising (our signs) every day
AGAINST the abusive system, which they must know is abusive to men, and since
they have been indoctrinated to believe anyone who protests against the
"system" is "OK" ( a liberal), then there must be somerthing right with the
men's movement.

My protest would be against both the "no fault" divorce laws, and against
knee-jerk custody awards to women, and against "lifestyle" child support
awards.

I wonder how long I could do it before some judge had the cops come get my name
and start surveilling me.

Freedom
June 25th 03, 09:43 PM
I am pro-se to my state's supreme court on support issues.

And i help others to. I join all the father's rights groups in my area and
try to convince then that grass roots outreach is what is needed.


"Layne Barlow" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:40:32 -0400, "Freedom" >
> wrote:
>
> >Many articles speak about how unnatural things are in custody, but no
> >mention of fighting the corrupt system that feeds the inequity, injustice
> >and perversion.
> >
> >
>
>http://single-parent.family.org/Web/groups/public/@fotf_singleparent/docume
n
> >ts/articles/spf001280.cfm
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Depends on where you look. This site address you posted appears to be
> another one of those afraid to offend public faces.
>
> It's called a free press. They can publish what they want.
>
> You don't like it, start your own.
>
> Personally, I have considerable disdain for those who whine and
> complain but won't do anything beyond that .... especially when it
> comes to supporting a real proposal to do just what you said --
> "fighting the corrupt system that feeds the inequity, injustice
> and perversion."
>
> So what are *you* willing do besides just talk?
>

Bob Whiteside
June 26th 03, 02:35 AM
"Layne Barlow" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:40:32 -0400, "Freedom" >
> wrote:
>
> >Many articles speak about how unnatural things are in custody, but no
> >mention of fighting the corrupt system that feeds the inequity, injustice
> >and perversion.
> >
> >
>
>http://single-parent.family.org/Web/groups/public/@fotf_singleparent/docume
n
> >ts/articles/spf001280.cfm
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Depends on where you look. This site address you posted appears to be
> another one of those afraid to offend public faces.
>
> It's called a free press. They can publish what they want.
>
> You don't like it, start your own.
>
> Personally, I have considerable disdain for those who whine and
> complain but won't do anything beyond that .... especially when it
> comes to supporting a real proposal to do just what you said --
> "fighting the corrupt system that feeds the inequity, injustice
> and perversion."
>
> So what are *you* willing do besides just talk?

Layne - I understand what you are getting at but there is a general
frustration level from fathers everywhere with politicans ignoring input
that doesn't fit their pre-determined templates for thinking.

Take one of our favorite state representatives as an example. Max Williams
heads up the House Judiciary Committee that controls CS issues in our state.
There is no way to justify how he kisses the state AG's butt in the public
hearing we both testified at, tells NCP's testifying they don't understand
the CS system, informs people appearing before his committee the state HAS
to comply with Federal mandates, and then turns around and becomes the
biggest RINO of all supporting a legislature imposed state sales tax and
other fee increases despite the fact the sales tax initiatives have been
voted down NINE times.

I know we can't give up, but fathers have got to find someone who is going
to listen to our concerns with an open mind and not blow off any ideas that
rock the status quo. In our state the guy who should be listening to us
refuses to acknowledge what he hears as being valid.

How would you suggest fathers get the legislature to listen to what we are
saying and act on it?

Lecher9000
June 26th 03, 06:10 AM
>Layne - I understand what you are getting at but there is a general
>frustration level from fathers everywhere with politicans ignoring input
>that doesn't fit their pre-determined templates for thinking.
>

Exactly. In the "template for thinking", divorced dads seem to be not even a
blip on the radar screen for any pol, either Repub or Dem, or even independent.
Not one single pol ever mentions "no fault" divorce or child support, except to
mention "deadbeat dads". As long as there is no MEDIA ATTENTION to the
reality of CS and divorce laws, and as long as ALL the pols continue to
knee-jerk the same way, nothing changes. But once at least ONE pol starts
courting the "divorced dads" vote (which I have never heard mentioned), the
rest might get on the bandwagon. And the way that one first pol gets on is that
we somehow get MEDIA ATTENTION and media favor. I guess we will never get media
favor as long as the media is leftist, however..... frustrating....
And even the conservative media doesn't like us apparently.... geez....
they must have a "template for thinking too"....
Well, I suppose the grass roots stuff is still a possibility.

Kenneth S.
June 26th 03, 01:51 PM
Lecher9000 wrote:
>
> >Layne - I understand what you are getting at but there is a general
> >frustration level from fathers everywhere with politicans ignoring input
> >that doesn't fit their pre-determined templates for thinking.
> >
>
> Exactly. In the "template for thinking", divorced dads seem to be not even a
> blip on the radar screen for any pol, either Repub or Dem, or even independent.
> Not one single pol ever mentions "no fault" divorce or child support, except to
> mention "deadbeat dads". As long as there is no MEDIA ATTENTION to the
> reality of CS and divorce laws, and as long as ALL the pols continue to
> knee-jerk the same way, nothing changes. But once at least ONE pol starts
> courting the "divorced dads" vote (which I have never heard mentioned), the
> rest might get on the bandwagon. And the way that one first pol gets on is that
> we somehow get MEDIA ATTENTION and media favor. I guess we will never get media
> favor as long as the media is leftist, however..... frustrating....
> And even the conservative media doesn't like us apparently.... geez....
> they must have a "template for thinking too"....
> Well, I suppose the grass roots stuff is still a possibility.

You're right about the conservative media, but remember that fathers
are starting from ground zero here. I have had some experience in
dealing with reporters, and you have to start with the understanding
that all of them -- be they liberal, or the tiny handful of
conservatives -- have bought into the lying feminist propaganda, which
goes virtually unchallenged because there's no "masculinist" group to
challenge it.

One of the first things to point out is that the great majority of
single parent families in the U.S. today are the result of decisions
made by mothers, not fathers. One reason why the media demonizes
fathers is because they think fathers have ditched their families,
instead of being expelled from them. And never-married mothers had
post-conception reproductive choices (abortion, abandonment, and
adoption) that were denied to the fathers.

One of the first things to do is to explode the myth of mothers as the
victims of fathers.

Layne Barlow
June 28th 03, 10:52 AM
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:15:18 -0700, "Father Drew"
> wrote:

>Wow, I'm psychic. I just posted a vary similar msg in the thread above this
>one.
>You are right though. Here is what I'm doing on top of my complaining. I
>am a board member of AZ Father's Rights. I spend 1 Sunday a month, for 10
>hours, training noobs on how to look up the statutes, cases law, ect. at the
>local university law library I take phone calls at home from fathers in
>trouble, or fathers that just need a shoulder to cry on. I write to my
>governor, senetors, and yes, even Geroge Bush himself. I've even written to
>Dr. Phil last week in fact, just to see if we could get some press. I
>attend monthly AZFR meetings to help the noobs and answer the questions that
>I can. I donate personal web space and application development time for the
>AZFR message board. I attend hearings of fathers that need support in the
>courtroom. I had a friend leave my house about 4 hours ago after going
>through his paperwork with him and his girlfriend regarding paternity,
>custody, and support. I tell everyone I know about how the laws are and my
>position. This cause consumes my life.
>
>So that's what I've been up too. My posts in here are just playtime. The
>real work is done outside of this idiot-box. Not to say I don't enjoy the
>discussions here. Many of you have given me a much needed head-check a time
>or two.
>-Drew
>

Good to see you're involved. Where are you?

Layne


>"Layne Barlow" > wrote in message
...
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:40:32 -0400, "Freedom" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Many articles speak about how unnatural things are in custody, but no
>> >mention of fighting the corrupt system that feeds the inequity, injustice
>> >and perversion.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>http://single-parent.family.org/Web/groups/public/@fotf_singleparent/docume
>n
>> >ts/articles/spf001280.cfm
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Depends on where you look. This site address you posted appears to be
>> another one of those afraid to offend public faces.
>>
>> It's called a free press. They can publish what they want.
>>
>> You don't like it, start your own.
>>
>> Personally, I have considerable disdain for those who whine and
>> complain but won't do anything beyond that .... especially when it
>> comes to supporting a real proposal to do just what you said --
>> "fighting the corrupt system that feeds the inequity, injustice
>> and perversion."
>>
>> So what are *you* willing do besides just talk?
>>
>

Layne Barlow
June 28th 03, 10:52 AM
On 26 Jun 2003 05:10:51 GMT, (Lecher9000) wrote:

>>Layne - I understand what you are getting at but there is a general
>>frustration level from fathers everywhere with politicans ignoring input
>>that doesn't fit their pre-determined templates for thinking.
>>
>
>Exactly. In the "template for thinking", divorced dads seem to be not even a
>blip on the radar screen for any pol, either Repub or Dem, or even independent.
>Not one single pol ever mentions "no fault" divorce or child support, except to
>mention "deadbeat dads". As long as there is no MEDIA ATTENTION to the
>reality of CS and divorce laws, and as long as ALL the pols continue to
>knee-jerk the same way, nothing changes. But once at least ONE pol starts
>courting the "divorced dads" vote (which I have never heard mentioned), the
>rest might get on the bandwagon. And the way that one first pol gets on is that
>we somehow get MEDIA ATTENTION and media favor. I guess we will never get media
>favor as long as the media is leftist, however..... frustrating....

As one who's played this game for over a decade, my experience is
this: (1) Media are fickle -- they'll interview you for half an hour
or more and, if you're lucky, they'll play ten seconds of it ... and
not your best ten seconds. (2) Membership drives were a waste of time
for us. Lot of people show up as long as there's free pizza and they
think you might take care of their problem ("what, no free lawyer?").
Not to mention all the adults you end up babysitting. (3) I've
helped organize and participated in rallies and demonstrations around
the Portland, Oregon, area. Usuallly only a couple of us showed up.

> And even the conservative media doesn't like us apparently.... geez....
>they must have a "template for thinking too"....
> Well, I suppose the grass roots stuff is still a possibility.

You gotta do something. We've found our biggest success where it
counts -- with the legislature and politics. We have a good working
relationship with the top child support agency people in this state.
Our Chief Justice has an open door policy with us. We are the authors
of this state's "friendly parent" law as well a score of more minor
laws here and there. Instead of just jumping up and down and making
noise, we kinda just quietly go along making the real changes our
children may enjoy.

Layne

Kenneth S.
June 28th 03, 05:55 PM
Layne Barlow wrote:
>
> On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 08:51:58 -0400, "Kenneth S." >
> wrote:
>
> >Lecher9000 wrote:
> >>
> >> >Layne - I understand what you are getting at but there is a general
> >> >frustration level from fathers everywhere with politicans ignoring input
> >> >that doesn't fit their pre-determined templates for thinking.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Exactly. In the "template for thinking", divorced dads seem to be not even a
> >> blip on the radar screen for any pol, either Repub or Dem, or even independent.
> >> Not one single pol ever mentions "no fault" divorce or child support, except to
> >> mention "deadbeat dads". As long as there is no MEDIA ATTENTION to the
> >> reality of CS and divorce laws, and as long as ALL the pols continue to
> >> knee-jerk the same way, nothing changes. But once at least ONE pol starts
> >> courting the "divorced dads" vote (which I have never heard mentioned), the
> >> rest might get on the bandwagon. And the way that one first pol gets on is that
> >> we somehow get MEDIA ATTENTION and media favor. I guess we will never get media
> >> favor as long as the media is leftist, however..... frustrating....
> >> And even the conservative media doesn't like us apparently.... geez....
> >> they must have a "template for thinking too"....
> >> Well, I suppose the grass roots stuff is still a possibility.
> >
> > You're right about the conservative media, but remember that fathers
> >are starting from ground zero here. I have had some experience in
> >dealing with reporters, and you have to start with the understanding
> >that all of them -- be they liberal, or the tiny handful of
> >conservatives -- have bought into the lying feminist propaganda, which
> >goes virtually unchallenged because there's no "masculinist" group to
> >challenge it.
> >
> > One of the first things to point out is that the great majority of
> >single parent families in the U.S. today are the result of decisions
> >made by mothers, not fathers. One reason why the media demonizes
> >fathers is because they think fathers have ditched their families,
> >instead of being expelled from them. And never-married mothers had
> >post-conception reproductive choices (abortion, abandonment, and
> >adoption) that were denied to the fathers.
> >
> > One of the first things to do is to explode the myth of mothers as the
> >victims of fathers.
>
> Not to mention you usually don't have to look too far before you find
> either reporters, or people they're close to, who have discovered the
> knee-in-the-groin which is our family law system.
>
> Layne

That factor MIGHT be helpful, Layne. However, you've got to bear in
mind that there is a prevailing orthodoxy in the U.S. media about all
kinds of things, including the war between the sexes. You've also got
to bear in mind that most reporters who write about family law matters
are women -- nearly always of a distinctly feminist turn of mind.

A male reporter who writes about family law matters may feel that
fathers have a case. But this feeling is unlikely to be reflected in
his story -- any more than some other story would reflect feelings of
sympathy for white supremacists if the reporter felt them. It would be
a career-killer for a story to reflect these points of view, and any
such story wouldn't get published anyway.

Suppose you're a male reporter who's paying lots of "child support"
because he's been screwed by the system. Would you want to make your
situation worse by producing a story that is very unlikely to be
published anyway about the plight of fathers like him?