Kinda stupid, but still... [Archive]

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xkatx

February 27th 04, 04:01 PM

What do you think?

I'm kind of having some problems here; My auntie called me last night and
asked if she could take the B to the circus next weekend. She sounded
really excited about it. She's my aunt, and B's great aunt, and he's
definitely the closest thing to a grandson she might ever have, or at least
for a very long time. They are really close, even though he's 3, so when
she called me to ask if she and my uncle could take him to the circus, I was
kind of at a loss for words.

I hate circuses. I'm against them for my own personal reasons, which really
aren't important right now. I was really hesitant to answer, and when I
said I really wasn't very comfortable with that, I could tell it was almost
like I had told her she had terminal cancer. I could tell for a split
second she was disappointed, then I quickly recovered and said I'd ask Bran
if he wanted to go with her to the circus. I turned around and did so, and,
of course, he said yes. (I don't even really think he even knows what a
circus is, but the thought of neat things to watch and animals definitely
grabbed his attention.)

She told me that they'd pick him up, take him for supper then they'd go to
the circus. She told me I could make plans, and I didn't see how making
some plans for a couple of hours was worth the effort (I could do a fair
amount of laundry in just a few hours instead) but then she said that since
the circus wasn't over until probably 9:30pm, he'd just spend the night at
her place and she'd bring him back in the morning.

It still isn't sitting well with me. Hell, a completely FREE night without
having a curfew to pick the baby up and bring him home sounds so nice, and
it's something I haven't had in well over a year, but because the event at
hand is him going to the circus (which is something I feel really strongly
about) It kind of changes things. I don't want to hurt my auntie's
feelings, and a free evening/night sounds so wonderful. I said that he
could go (given he's good this week) but I'm not sure if I'm being stupid
about this or not.

What do you think?
If something came up that you didn't agree with that, really, would not hurt
your child, but it was still something you were totally and 100% against,
what would you do?

--
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(Reply to xkatx[at]shaw[dot]ca, and change the obvious, asshat.)

Joelle

February 27th 04, 04:25 PM

>What do you think?
>If something came up that you didn't agree with that, really, would not hurt
>your child, but it was still something you were totally and 100% against,
>what would you do?
>

Well if you are totally and 100% against supporting something, I guess you have
to stand up for your principles.

On the other hand, it's nice to let kids make up their own minds about some
things. How old is this kid? Depending on how old he is, you can let him know
your thoughts on the issue (in an age appropriate matter) and let him go and
make up his own mind.

You could do some research on this particular circus, if this circus has a bad
reputation for mistreating the animals, then I wouldn't let the kid go. But if
they have a good reputation and you are just opposed to the whole idea of
circuses, then I'd let the kid see and decide for himself.

Unless he's 4 or under and then I dunno, just say yes or no but don't burden
him.

Well, wasnt' that a wishy washy answer...

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

xkatx

February 27th 04, 05:09 PM

"Joelle" wrote in message ...
> >What do you think?
> >If something came up that you didn't agree with that, really, would not
hurt
> >your child, but it was still something you were totally and 100%
against,
> >what would you do?
> >
>
> Well if you are totally and 100% against supporting something, I guess you
have
> to stand up for your principles.

With a circus, I am as a whole. But in all reality, I am not supporting it
in any way - it's my aunt.

> On the other hand, it's nice to let kids make up their own minds about
some
> things. How old is this kid? Depending on how old he is, you can let him
know
> your thoughts on the issue (in an age appropriate matter) and let him go
and
> make up his own mind.

He's 3. I let him decide what pj's he wants to wear for bed, and it's his
choice if he wants a shower, regular bath or bubble bath... That seems to
be enough for now. lol

> You could do some research on this particular circus, if this circus has a
bad
> reputation for mistreating the animals, then I wouldn't let the kid go.
But if
> they have a good reputation and you are just opposed to the whole idea of
> circuses, then I'd let the kid see and decide for himself.

I'm really not sure. I just don't like the whole idea of a circus, if it
involves animals at all, mainly because I don't think that animals, treated
well or not, should be used as a big spectacle for our amusement, unless, of
course, they're monkeys, but just because I'm not a huge monkey fan. LOL I
did ask him, and he said he wanted to go, but any more than that, I don't
think he cares.

> Unless he's 4 or under and then I dunno, just say yes or no but don't
burden
> him.

Yea, I did say yes, but it kinda isn't what I want, but after 'sleeping on
it' I know I have the ability and right to say no, but I don't see the real
reason to... Sooner or later, he's going to have to make his own decisions,
and although I'd like to influence him, I don't ever want to make him feel
forced to agree or think or do what I do. I guess it can't really hurt, and
the ability to go out with not much of a care in the world for one night
sounds very appealing :D

> Well, wasnt' that a wishy washy answer...

Yes, but it was a response, and better than nothing, and also gave me a few
things to think about. Thanks.

> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

(Reply to xkatx[at]shaw[dot]ca, and change the obvious, asshat.)

February 27th 04, 08:31 PM

"xkatx" .> wrote in message
news:ERJ%b.610915$JQ1.252746@pd7tw1no...
> What do you think?
>
> I'm kind of having some problems here; My auntie called me last night and
> asked if she could take the B to the circus next weekend. She sounded
> really excited about it. She's my aunt, and B's great aunt, and he's
> definitely the closest thing to a grandson she might ever have, or at least
> for a very long time. They are really close, even though he's 3, so when
> she called me to ask if she and my uncle could take him to the circus, I was
> kind of at a loss for words.
>
> I hate circuses. I'm against them for my own personal reasons, which really
> aren't important right now. I was really hesitant to answer, and when I
> said I really wasn't very comfortable with that, I could tell it was almost
> like I had told her she had terminal cancer. I could tell for a split
> second she was disappointed, then I quickly recovered and said I'd ask Bran
> if he wanted to go with her to the circus. I turned around and did so, and,
> of course, he said yes. (I don't even really think he even knows what a
> circus is, but the thought of neat things to watch and animals definitely
> grabbed his attention.)
>
> She told me that they'd pick him up, take him for supper then they'd go to
> the circus. She told me I could make plans, and I didn't see how making
> some plans for a couple of hours was worth the effort (I could do a fair
> amount of laundry in just a few hours instead) but then she said that since
> the circus wasn't over until probably 9:30pm, he'd just spend the night at
> her place and she'd bring him back in the morning.
>
> It still isn't sitting well with me. Hell, a completely FREE night without
> having a curfew to pick the baby up and bring him home sounds so nice, and
> it's something I haven't had in well over a year, but because the event at
> hand is him going to the circus (which is something I feel really strongly
> about) It kind of changes things. I don't want to hurt my auntie's
> feelings, and a free evening/night sounds so wonderful. I said that he
> could go (given he's good this week) but I'm not sure if I'm being stupid
> about this or not.
>
> What do you think?
> If something came up that you didn't agree with that, really, would not hurt
> your child, but it was still something you were totally and 100% against,
> what would you do?
>
>
>
>
> --
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?
>
>
> (Reply to xkatx[at]shaw[dot]ca, and change the obvious, asshat.)
>
>

I have a crazy fear of clowns and I am allergic to latex balloons...I hate
circus'! My kids can go, but I do not go. We have perfect other times
together.
V

February 27th 04, 09:07 PM

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:09:43 GMT, "xkatx" .> wrote:

>
>"Joelle" wrote in message ...
>> >What do you think?
>> >If something came up that you didn't agree with that, really, would not
>hurt
>> >your child, but it was still something you were totally and 100%
>against,
>> >what would you do?
>> >
>>
>> Well if you are totally and 100% against supporting something, I guess you
>have
>> to stand up for your principles.
>
>With a circus, I am as a whole. But in all reality, I am not supporting it
>in any way - it's my aunt.

Hmmm, he's your son. Just because you're not spending the money
doesn't mean you're not supporting it. By allowing your son to go,
you're condoning it.

Here's an example from my house. I'm vegetarian, my older son is not.
I buy and cook him meat because it's an individual choice.

I'm also a pacifist. Therefore I will not allow my son to go to his
friend's farm for target practice. It's not a matter of buying him a
gun, it's a matter of whether it is acceptable or not.

Although some may see a conflict between pacifism and buying meat for
my son, I do not. The question in your case is whether you feel
sending your son to the circus is in conflict with your principles.
Your aunt would surely find a substitute activity if you stood your
ground, especially if she knew your objection was to the circus rather
than to an overnight with her.

I don't mean to belabor the point about principles, but you're either
against it "as a whole" or you're not. You can't have it both ways.

>Yea, I did say yes, but it kinda isn't what I want, but after 'sleeping on
>it' I know I have the ability and right to say no, but I don't see the real
>reason to... Sooner or later, he's going to have to make his own decisions,
>and although I'd like to influence him, I don't ever want to make him feel
>forced to agree or think or do what I do.

Wow, you're going to stop instilling your values before he's started
school?!

>I guess it can't really hurt, and
>the ability to go out with not much of a care in the world for one night
>sounds very appealing :D

You certainly deserve a night of R&R. Have a nice time.

lm

Betty

February 27th 04, 09:10 PM

Bebe lestrnge

February 27th 04, 09:43 PM

Hi , What I am thinking is he is 3 , maybe he will enjoy it that young,
I kinda think not. Your aunt and uncle will probably enjoy him more the
the darn Circus ! I would consider the time they spent together more
than what the activity was. I also think the animal abuses we have
heard about is a horrible thing to support. I did take my daughters to
the traveling circus that came to town when they were young , about 5
and 11 years old they were. They took a ride on an elephant , they
really did enjoy it and it was before we heard of the way the animals
are treated too ! I always wished I could see the Barnum and Bailey's
Circus as a child, never did get to. I Love the clowns, and the trapeze
show. I also think we can't push our beliefs on our children, we can
explain our concerns and logic on a subject but they need to decide for
themselves where they stand as individuals ........and at 3 it is a
little early to introduce "some" topics. The level of understanding just
isn't there, ya know?
If you are that "against" the Circus You could say no to the Circus and
suggest they take him and spend the time doing something else
together.=A0That you feel it would be great for him to spend some fun
time with them, and you "could " use the break. I think they would
understand how you feel. A flat No may give them ideas that you don't
trust them with him, you must explain ....... Hope this helps some.
Bev

xkatx

February 27th 04, 11:00 PM

"lm" wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:09:43 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:
>
> >
> >"Joelle" wrote in message ...
> >> >What do you think?
> >> >If something came up that you didn't agree with that, really, would
not
> >hurt
> >> >your child, but it was still something you were totally and 100%
> >against,
> >> >what would you do?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Well if you are totally and 100% against supporting something, I guess
you
> >have
> >> to stand up for your principles.
> >
> >With a circus, I am as a whole. But in all reality, I am not supporting
it
> >in any way - it's my aunt.
>
> Hmmm, he's your son. Just because you're not spending the money
> doesn't mean you're not supporting it. By allowing your son to go,
> you're condoning it.

It's really hard to put up with this aunt. She has always been like my mom
away from my mom, but there's been a few issues we've come across where we
don't agree with things, and even though this is my son, I seem to end up
losing the battle against her. She never once has said anything like she
will stop talking to me if I don't agree with something, but there's little
things like I don't want him having much sugar, meaning candy, chocolates,
pop and so on, but something like jam on toast in the morning is fine, or
just every day things with sugar are fine, but chocolates and candies and
cookies to no end is just a small thing I don't like. I bring that up, and
she will say something like, "well, when he's at my house, he can have
treats" so that kind of backs me into a corner. I'm not about to say,
"fine, then we'll never, ever come over again" because that is my aunt, she
loves him and he loves her to death, well, it just kind of puts me in a bad
position. That's kind of a really stupid example, but it's just a small
example. She would never do a thing to hurt him, but it's things that I try
to enforce every day that get broken, and I just don't like it that much
but, again, in the long run, I lose the battle.

> Here's an example from my house. I'm vegetarian, my older son is not.
> I buy and cook him meat because it's an individual choice.

That's the same here. I don't eat animal, or their products at all, but he
loves his milk and loves chicken, sausages and other things like that.
Soon, I fear, he just might turn into a hot dog or a block of cheese.

> I'm also a pacifist. Therefore I will not allow my son to go to his
> friend's farm for target practice. It's not a matter of buying him a
> gun, it's a matter of whether it is acceptable or not.
>
> Although some may see a conflict between pacifism and buying meat for
> my son, I do not. The question in your case is whether you feel
> sending your son to the circus is in conflict with your principles.
> Your aunt would surely find a substitute activity if you stood your
> ground, especially if she knew your objection was to the circus rather
> than to an overnight with her.

I'm kind of lost because this is not something that has ever been an issue.
It's never been that the circus has come to town and I had said yes or no
before. I can't seem to find any info on this circus about animal abuse or
cruelty, and I shouldn't put my own fear of evil clowns into my son, just as
a whole, I personally hate the circus. This has never been an issue of
principles for US, just for me, but maybe it hasn't been an 'us' thing
because the issue has never come up before.

> I don't mean to belabor the point about principles, but you're either
> against it "as a whole" or you're not. You can't have it both ways.
>
>
>
> >Yea, I did say yes, but it kinda isn't what I want, but after 'sleeping
on
> >it' I know I have the ability and right to say no, but I don't see the
real
> >reason to... Sooner or later, he's going to have to make his own
decisions,
> >and although I'd like to influence him, I don't ever want to make him
feel
> >forced to agree or think or do what I do.
>
> Wow, you're going to stop instilling your values before he's started
> school?!
>
> >I guess it can't really hurt, and
> >the ability to go out with not much of a care in the world for one night
> >sounds very appealing :D
>
> You certainly deserve a night of R&R. Have a nice time.
>
> lm

Kim

February 28th 04, 03:20 AM

"xkatx" wrote in message

*snipped*

> I'm kind of lost because this is not something that has ever been an
issue.
> It's never been that the circus has come to town and I had said yes or no
> before. I can't seem to find any info on this circus about animal abuse
or
> cruelty, and I shouldn't put my own fear of evil clowns into my son, just
as
> a whole, I personally hate the circus.

Bingo... I'm afraid of the dentist... Doesn't mean I'm going to stop the
kids from going... I'm also afraid of spiders, snakes and all sorts of
things that I have had nightmares about... I don't stop my kids from picking
up snakes or climbing ladders or removing the spider from the shower while I
cower in the corner screaming like a banchee...

If the circus has a good rep for being clean and treating thier critters
right I really don't think you should stop him from going because you are
afraid of clowns... That's just not fair to him or the auntie... They both
might find it a very entertaining trip...

and my thoughts on:

"but chocolates and candies and
cookies to no end is just a small thing I don't like. I bring that up, and
she will say something like, "well, when he's at my house, he can have
treats" so that kind of backs me into a corner. I'm not about to say,
"fine, then we'll never, ever come over again"

Very simple... I would never tell them that you'd never come back I'd very
simply state "well when the dental bills start piling up we'll know where to
send them" in a very no nonsense voice AND make sure that auntie knows the
line "I'm sure that when so and so becomes over excited and I have to raise
my voice or give him a time out becuase you gave him too many sweets while
he visited I'm positive I'll let him know that it was the aunties sweet
giving that caused him grief"

That is exactly what I did with my mom and guess what? My kids were very
closely monitored after that time... Treats are good and ok some of the time
but not ok ALL of the time... and Aunties love to spoil them and that's
fantastic too but have auntie do it in a different way ;) with lots and lots
snuggles... Always the preffered choice

I know those two lines may seem extreme... BUT as a single parent with
little or know breaks available the last thing you want are caveties and
overly active sugar induced energized munchkins... Auntie needs to
apprecieate that aspect as well... Also doen't help if she is undermining
your authoritie with the tyke... Things like that aren't much help... You
might want to sit down with her and just chat about the facts of single
parenting ;)

JMHO,
K

Tiffany

February 28th 04, 12:44 PM

xkatx .> wrote in message
news:ZZP%b.635827$ts4.625636@pd7tw3no...
>
> "lm" wrote in message ...
> > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:09:43 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Joelle" wrote in message ...
> > >> >What do you think?
> > >> >If something came up that you didn't agree with that, really, would
> not
> > >hurt
> > >> >your child, but it was still something you were totally and 100%
> > >against,
> > >> >what would you do?
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Well if you are totally and 100% against supporting something, I
guess
> you
> > >have
> > >> to stand up for your principles.
> > >
> > >With a circus, I am as a whole. But in all reality, I am not
supporting
> it
> > >in any way - it's my aunt.
> >
> > Hmmm, he's your son. Just because you're not spending the money
> > doesn't mean you're not supporting it. By allowing your son to go,
> > you're condoning it.
>
> It's really hard to put up with this aunt. She has always been like my
mom
> away from my mom, but there's been a few issues we've come across where we
> don't agree with things, and even though this is my son, I seem to end up
> losing the battle against her. She never once has said anything like she
> will stop talking to me if I don't agree with something, but there's
little
> things like I don't want him having much sugar, meaning candy, chocolates,
> pop and so on, but something like jam on toast in the morning is fine, or
> just every day things with sugar are fine, but chocolates and candies and
> cookies to no end is just a small thing I don't like. I bring that up,
and
> she will say something like, "well, when he's at my house, he can have
> treats" so that kind of backs me into a corner. I'm not about to say,
> "fine, then we'll never, ever come over again" because that is my aunt,
she
> loves him and he loves her to death, well, it just kind of puts me in a
bad
> position. That's kind of a really stupid example, but it's just a small
> example. She would never do a thing to hurt him, but it's things that I
try
> to enforce every day that get broken, and I just don't like it that much
> but, again, in the long run, I lose the battle.
>
> > Here's an example from my house. I'm vegetarian, my older son is not.
> > I buy and cook him meat because it's an individual choice.
>
> That's the same here. I don't eat animal, or their products at all, but
he
> loves his milk and loves chicken, sausages and other things like that.
> Soon, I fear, he just might turn into a hot dog or a block of cheese.
>
> > I'm also a pacifist. Therefore I will not allow my son to go to his
> > friend's farm for target practice. It's not a matter of buying him a
> > gun, it's a matter of whether it is acceptable or not.
> >
> > Although some may see a conflict between pacifism and buying meat for
> > my son, I do not. The question in your case is whether you feel
> > sending your son to the circus is in conflict with your principles.
> > Your aunt would surely find a substitute activity if you stood your
> > ground, especially if she knew your objection was to the circus rather
> > than to an overnight with her.
>
> I'm kind of lost because this is not something that has ever been an
issue.
> It's never been that the circus has come to town and I had said yes or no
> before. I can't seem to find any info on this circus about animal abuse
or
> cruelty, and I shouldn't put my own fear of evil clowns into my son, just
as
> a whole, I personally hate the circus. This has never been an issue of
> principles for US, just for me, but maybe it hasn't been an 'us' thing
> because the issue has never come up before.
>

You mention a fear of clowns..... is that the reason you don't like circus?
sorry if you did post your reason elsewhere. I haven't really given opinion
because I think the reason you are against the circus would change the
outcome. If its your fears, why would you prevent him from going? If its the
cruelty issue, you could let him go then explain to him why you don't agree
with circus. Let him now before he goes, so he can really SEE your reason. I
don't go to circus or animal shows as I don't believe animals were put on
this earth for our sick entertainment. Most animals are abused in one form
or another, why else would they do things they don't normally do? But one
day my daughter was with her father and he took her to a circus. Amazing, he
was a vegetarian too. I am amazed as I never thought he would do that. She
did like it then, but now, after going to some other places, seeing other
animals in wild, she probably wouldn't go. I made that her choice.

T

Tiffany

February 28th 04, 12:46 PM

xkatx

February 28th 04, 05:16 PM

"Kim" wrote in message ...
>
> "xkatx" wrote in message
>
> *snipped*
>
> > I'm kind of lost because this is not something that has ever been an
> issue.
> > It's never been that the circus has come to town and I had said yes or
no
> > before. I can't seem to find any info on this circus about animal abuse
> or
> > cruelty, and I shouldn't put my own fear of evil clowns into my son,
just
> as
> > a whole, I personally hate the circus.
>
>
> Bingo... I'm afraid of the dentist... Doesn't mean I'm going to stop the
> kids from going... I'm also afraid of spiders, snakes and all sorts of
> things that I have had nightmares about... I don't stop my kids from
picking
> up snakes or climbing ladders or removing the spider from the shower while
I
> cower in the corner screaming like a banchee...
>
> If the circus has a good rep for being clean and treating thier critters
> right I really don't think you should stop him from going because you are
> afraid of clowns... That's just not fair to him or the auntie... They both
> might find it a very entertaining trip...

Ah yes, I can relate. But, with the circus, it's not JUST the creepy and
demon-like clowns. It's a bit of everything, and I actually DID try and do
a bit of searching the other night on the circus. I couldn't come up with
anything, but I still don't think that animals should be exploited. Unless,
of course, they're monkeys, but only because I hate monkeys.

> and my thoughts on:
>
> "but chocolates and candies and
> cookies to no end is just a small thing I don't like. I bring that up,
and
> she will say something like, "well, when he's at my house, he can have
> treats" so that kind of backs me into a corner. I'm not about to say,
> "fine, then we'll never, ever come over again"
>
> Very simple... I would never tell them that you'd never come back I'd very
> simply state "well when the dental bills start piling up we'll know where
to
> send them" in a very no nonsense voice AND make sure that auntie knows the
> line "I'm sure that when so and so becomes over excited and I have to
raise
> my voice or give him a time out becuase you gave him too many sweets while
> he visited I'm positive I'll let him know that it was the aunties sweet
> giving that caused him grief"

You know, I never thought of it like that. That's a really, really good
idea!

> That is exactly what I did with my mom and guess what? My kids were very
> closely monitored after that time... Treats are good and ok some of the
time
> but not ok ALL of the time... and Aunties love to spoil them and that's
> fantastic too but have auntie do it in a different way ;) with lots and
lots
> snuggles... Always the preffered choice
>
> I know those two lines may seem extreme... BUT as a single parent with
> little or know breaks available the last thing you want are caveties and
> overly active sugar induced energized munchkins... Auntie needs to
> apprecieate that aspect as well... Also doen't help if she is undermining
> your authoritie with the tyke... Things like that aren't much help... You
> might want to sit down with her and just chat about the facts of single
> parenting ;)
>
> JMHO,
> K

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

(Reply to xkatx[at]shaw[dot]ca, and change the obvious, asshat.)

xkatx

February 28th 04, 05:30 PM

"Tiffany" wrote in message ...
<snip 'cause it's getting long>
>
> You mention a fear of clowns..... is that the reason you don't like
circus?

No, not entirely. It's a bit of everything, but some may fear a giant lion
getting ready to pounce on them, I fear the clowns.
I also don't believe in exploiting those animals, and agree with you for
that.
I find more amusement in something like RealTV or something that we, as
humans, do that is just plain stupid, rather than what animals do.
I also don't like all the cruelty that rolls on in with the circus, but I
looked and looked, and had to admit that this circus seems to have a fairly
good rep.

> sorry if you did post your reason elsewhere. I haven't really given
opinion
> because I think the reason you are against the circus would change the
> outcome. If its your fears, why would you prevent him from going? If its
the
> cruelty issue, you could let him go then explain to him why you don't
agree
> with circus. Let him now before he goes, so he can really SEE your reason.

Well, I really don't think he cares much for my reasons. He's 3, and
really, I don't think at 3 they can actually understand such thoughts as
this, and no, he's no super-human, super-smart, super-special toddler that
can do advanced physics in a matter of moments. Explaining much more than,
"What happened?" in a movie we've watched 100 times is kind of pointless, I
think. He wouldn't even be able to sit and concentrate long enough for me
to begin to start to explain my thoughts, and I think he'd care more about
making faces or silly noises at me than actually sitting and listening to
something like an entire lecture. lol

> I don't go to circus or animal shows as I don't believe animals were put
on
> this earth for our sick entertainment. Most animals are abused in one form
> or another, why else would they do things they don't normally do? But one
> day my daughter was with her father and he took her to a circus. Amazing,
he
> was a vegetarian too. I am amazed as I never thought he would do that. She
> did like it then, but now, after going to some other places, seeing other
> animals in wild, she probably wouldn't go. I made that her choice.

Yes, he seems to like the wild as well. He loves going out of town to the
lake or just away and since, I guess, I'm a lot like my dad, I tend to keep
my eyes off the road and in the ditch or sky to point out every hawk, moose
or fox I see. He likes that, and we slow down to see deer running along a
field. I doubt he can really see a difference yet, but maybe one day he
will, or maybe he won't.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

(Reply to xkatx[at]shaw[dot]ca, and change the obvious, asshat.)

> T
>
>

xkatx

February 28th 04, 05:36 PM

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> xkatx .> wrote in message
> news:ZZP%b.635827$ts4.625636@pd7tw3no...
> >
> > "lm" wrote in message ...
> > > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:09:43 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >"Joelle" wrote in message ...
> > > >> >What do you think?
> > > >> >If something came up that you didn't agree with that, really,
would
> > not
> > > >hurt
> > > >> >your child, but it was still something you were totally and 100%
> > > >against,
> > > >> >what would you do?
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Well if you are totally and 100% against supporting something, I
> guess
> > you
> > > >have
> > > >> to stand up for your principles.
> > > >
> > > >With a circus, I am as a whole. But in all reality, I am not
> supporting
> > it
> > > >in any way - it's my aunt.
> > >
> > > Hmmm, he's your son. Just because you're not spending the money
> > > doesn't mean you're not supporting it. By allowing your son to go,
> > > you're condoning it.
> >
> > It's really hard to put up with this aunt. She has always been like my
> mom
> > away from my mom, but there's been a few issues we've come across where
we
> > don't agree with things, and even though this is my son, I seem to end
up
> > losing the battle against her. She never once has said anything like
she
> > will stop talking to me if I don't agree with something, but there's
> little
> > things like I don't want him having much sugar, meaning candy,
chocolates,
> > pop and so on, but something like jam on toast in the morning is fine,
or
> > just every day things with sugar are fine, but chocolates and candies
and
> > cookies to no end is just a small thing I don't like. I bring that up,
> and
> > she will say something like, "well, when he's at my house, he can have
> > treats" so that kind of backs me into a corner. I'm not about to say,
> > "fine, then we'll never, ever come over again" because that is my aunt,
> she
> > loves him and he loves her to death, well, it just kind of puts me in a
> bad
> > position. That's kind of a really stupid example, but it's just a small
> > example. She would never do a thing to hurt him, but it's things that I
> try
> > to enforce every day that get broken, and I just don't like it that much
> > but, again, in the long run, I lose the battle.
> >
>
> How often is your son with the Auntie? If its occasionally, don't sweat
the
> sweets. If its a daily thing, then you need to be firm. It can be hard, I
> deal with issues with my mom all the time. Sometimes its a no-win.

Quite often... She works a few blocks from where we live, so we often go
visit her at work when she's not that busy and we aren't that busy either.
She lives way on the other side of the city, but we still visit her at home,
usually around once a week. She often babysits if I go to a movie at the
mall, so I'd say they're together fairly often, but not every single day.

> T
>
>

Joelle

February 28th 04, 06:41 PM

>> I don't go to circus or animal shows as I don't believe animals were put
>on
>> this earth for our sick entertainment. Most animals are abused in one form
>> or another, why else would they do things they don't normally do?

Well actually, many of the tricks elephants at reputable circuses do, are
actions they do in the wild. And elephants in the wild spend their time
working and looking for food, and traveling....so although an elephant is
better off in the wild, between a zoo, where they just stand around all day,
and a circus, where they work, an elephant in a reputable circus is better off.

Of course lions don't normally jump through hoops of fire, but really animals
that are put to work are usually happier than animals with nothing to do.

Kind of true for people to...

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

February 28th 04, 10:44 PM

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:16:31 GMT, "xkatx" .> wrote:

[snipped so xkatx's quote is entirely out of context]

>I still don't think that animals should be exploited. Unless,
>of course, they're monkeys, but only because I hate monkeys.

LOL! That cracked me up! I'm not big on cats, myself, but they won't
do tricks anyway.

lm

xkatx

February 29th 04, 05:11 PM

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:16:31 GMT, "xkatx" .>
> >
> >"Kim" wrote in message ...
>
> >Ah yes, I can relate. But, with the circus, it's not JUST the creepy and
> >demon-like clowns. It's a bit of everything, and I actually DID try and
do
> >a bit of searching the other night on the circus. I couldn't come up
with
> >anything, but I still don't think that animals should be exploited.
Unless,
> >of course, they're monkeys, but only because I hate monkeys.
>
> Could it be that the clown fear led to seeking causes to avoid the
> circus (like the determination of unethical treatment of animals) so
> that avoiding the circus becomes less about clowns and seems more
> plausable?

I don't really know. Could be, but I don't know for sure. I've never
really liked either, so you could be right.

> What happens if the little one returns and LOVES the clowns? What if
> that's all he can talk about? What if he wants to be one for Halloween?

Well, if that happens, I can, at least, ship him off to work with the
circus. He'll get all the clowns he could ever imagine. Haha Hopefully
next weekend is far enough away from Halloween that he'll want to be
something else ;)

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

(Reply to xkatx[at]shaw[dot]ca, and change the obvious, asshat.)

> 'Kate
>

xkatx

February 29th 04, 05:13 PM

"lm" wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:16:31 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:
>
> [snipped so xkatx's quote is entirely out of context]
>
> >I still don't think that animals should be exploited. Unless,
> >of course, they're monkeys, but only because I hate monkeys.
>
> LOL! That cracked me up! I'm not big on cats, myself, but they won't
> do tricks anyway.
>
> lm

THAT'S why it's all about monkeys.

David

March 1st 04, 06:46 AM

Stand up for yourself - I agree about the circus (if it includes animals) but
really the principle here is that he is your child and you a right to decide
where he goes and what he sees.

I do not agree that the circus is not harmful to him tho - he will be
entertained and excited at the spectacle of animals (esp the lions and tigers
etc) who lead a miserable life, and will 'educated' that this is acceptable,
and that (by allowing him to go) you approve.

I cannot figure out why you didn't simply point out to the woman that you would
be happy for her to take him to a movie or some other form of entertainment,
but would allow him to go to the circus because...

David

xkatx wrote:

> What do you think?
>
> I'm kind of having some problems here; My auntie called me last night and
> asked if she could take the B to the circus next weekend. ....
>
> What do you think?
> If something came up that you didn't agree with that, really, would not hurt
> your child, but it was still something you were totally and 100% against,
> what would you do?
>
>

David

March 1st 04, 07:00 AM

Hi xkatx

There is an important issue in the paragraph below - in my view it is not
acceptable that your aunt has stated that SHE will decide what your son eats
when he is at her home.

If you agree with this in principle, then what about when he is older - does
that mean when he is at someone elses home and THEY think it is OK for him to
drink alcohol or smoke pot then that is OK with you?

Over the years I have many kids other than my own in my care (eg my kids
friends on sleepovers etc) and I have always believed that I should follow
their parents wishes about food, movies they watch, bedtimes etc etc.

Remember, you can give your aunt the opportunity to make a choice - she can
enjoy the company of your child and follow your rules, or she can miss out.

Easy peasy

David - who thinks you have to stick up for your principles, even tho sometimes
it is not so easy

xkatx wrote:

> It's really hard to put up with this aunt. She has always been like my mom
> away from my mom, but there's been a few issues we've come across where we
> don't agree with things, and even though this is my son, I seem to end up
> losing the battle against her. She never once has said anything like she
> will stop talking to me if I don't agree with something, but there's little
> things like I don't want him having much sugar, meaning candy, chocolates,
> pop and so on, but something like jam on toast in the morning is fine, or
> just every day things with sugar are fine, but chocolates and candies and
> cookies to no end is just a small thing I don't like. I bring that up, and
> she will say something like, "well, when he's at my house, he can have
> treats" so that kind of backs me into a corner. I'm not about to say,
> "fine, then we'll never, ever come over again" because that is my aunt, she
> loves him and he loves her to death, well, it just kind of puts me in a bad
> position. That's kind of a really stupid example, but it's just a small
> example. She would never do a thing to hurt him, but it's things that I try
> to enforce every day that get broken, and I just don't like it that much
> but, again, in the long run, I lose the battle.
>