Illinois Problem - a little help??

[news.charter.net]

I'm hoping someone reading this can point me in the right direction, be able
to offer some advice, etc...

I'm not looking to badmouth the mother, as justified as it would be, but
just want to focus on helping my son...

I have recently moved to California from Georgia with my family. My ex-wife
lives in Illinois with our two sons (16 and 12.5 years old). For the past
two years my youngest son has been wanting to live with me. He is doing
very poorly in school, barely passing each grade level. I have begged his
mother to let him live with me so I can help him, even offering to keep
paying his child support during a six month trial period. These past two
years have been difficult for me financially, due in large part to a company
layoff in 2001. Still, she has been after me for every penny of child
support she can get, requiring numerous drives to Illinois just to get
reamed by the Judge. The latest was an $850 per month judgement and $6,700
in arrears for HER attorney fees (I had to represent myself).

It is worth it to mention that I am convinced the reason she doesn't want to
give up custody is because of the child support. She is chronically
unemployed, living off welfare, church charity, and my child support.

In the meantime, my son suffers, and I feel powerless to do anything.

[gini52]

"news.charter.net" > wrote in message
...
> I'm hoping someone reading this can point me in the right direction, be
able
> to offer some advice, etc...
>
> I'm not looking to badmouth the mother, as justified as it would be, but
> just want to focus on helping my son...
>
> I have recently moved to California from Georgia with my family. My
ex-wife
> lives in Illinois with our two sons (16 and 12.5 years old). For the past
> two years my youngest son has been wanting to live with me. He is doing
> very poorly in school, barely passing each grade level. I have begged his
> mother to let him live with me so I can help him, even offering to keep
> paying his child support during a six month trial period.
===
Why are you "begging" his mother for custody? Have you petitioned the court
for custody?
If not, why not? Most judges will consider the wishes of a 12 year old. You
do not need
the mother's permission--you need the court's permission.
===
===

[Chris]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "news.charter.net" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm hoping someone reading this can point me in the right direction, be
> able
> > to offer some advice, etc...
> >
> > I'm not looking to badmouth the mother, as justified as it would be, but
> > just want to focus on helping my son...
> >
> > I have recently moved to California from Georgia with my family. My
> ex-wife
> > lives in Illinois with our two sons (16 and 12.5 years old). For the
past
> > two years my youngest son has been wanting to live with me. He is doing
> > very poorly in school, barely passing each grade level. I have begged
his
> > mother to let him live with me so I can help him, even offering to keep
> > paying his child support during a six month trial period.
> ===
> Why are you "begging" his mother for custody? Have you petitioned the
court
> for custody?
> If not, why not? Most judges will consider the wishes of a 12 year old.
You
> do not need
> the mother's permission--you need the court's permission.

Isn't that kinda like......... the same thing?

> ===
> ===
>
>

[Anon]

Okay, here's some more detail...

I just moved, remember, and having been paying her what I have, I am at the
end of my rope financially. Fighting a custody battle is expensive and time
consuming enough. Imagine trying to do it from about 2,000 miles away. I
almost lost the job I had in Georgia a few times just to litigate the child
support issue because of all the time I had to take off work.

Now the attorney I retained in Illinois has done a 360 on me and tells me
she doesn't think we can win it. What does it take...



"news.charter.net" > wrote in message
...
> I'm hoping someone reading this can point me in the right direction, be
able
> to offer some advice, etc...
>
> I'm not looking to badmouth the mother, as justified as it would be, but
> just want to focus on helping my son...
>
> I have recently moved to California from Georgia with my family. My
ex-wife
> lives in Illinois with our two sons (16 and 12.5 years old). For the past
> two years my youngest son has been wanting to live with me. He is doing
> very poorly in school, barely passing each grade level. I have begged his
> mother to let him live with me so I can help him, even offering to keep
> paying his child support during a six month trial period. These past two
> years have been difficult for me financially, due in large part to a
company
> layoff in 2001. Still, she has been after me for every penny of child
> support she can get, requiring numerous drives to Illinois just to get
> reamed by the Judge. The latest was an $850 per month judgement and
$6,700
> in arrears for HER attorney fees (I had to represent myself).
>
> It is worth it to mention that I am convinced the reason she doesn't want
to
> give up custody is because of the child support. She is chronically
> unemployed, living off welfare, church charity, and my child support.
>
> In the meantime, my son suffers, and I feel powerless to do anything.
>
>

[Bob Whiteside]

"Anon" > wrote in message
...
> Okay, here's some more detail...
>
> I just moved, remember, and having been paying her what I have, I am at
the
> end of my rope financially. Fighting a custody battle is expensive and
time
> consuming enough. Imagine trying to do it from about 2,000 miles away. I
> almost lost the job I had in Georgia a few times just to litigate the
child
> support issue because of all the time I had to take off work.
>
> Now the attorney I retained in Illinois has done a 360 on me and tells me
> she doesn't think we can win it. What does it take...

I suspect you meant the attorney did a 180 on you. Once a family law
attorney realizes they have sucked you dry financially, they make statements
like your attorney is making. If you are out of money, of course you can't
win because you can no longer afford her legal counsel. It's how the game
is played.

[Indyguy1]

>Okay, here's some more detail...
>
>I just moved, remember, and having been paying her what I have, I am at the
>end of my rope financially. Fighting a custody battle is expensive and time
>consuming enough. Imagine trying to do it from about 2,000 miles away.

If you are REALLY serious about obtaining custody the first you'd need to do is
move back to Illinois. Find a dwelling in the kids present school district and
get involved in the kids lives. To think any judge in Illinois would give you
custody and order a child to leave their established area, friends, school, and
other parent is foolish at best.

I
>almost lost the job I had in Georgia a few times just to litigate the child
>support issue because of all the time I had to take off work.

If you moved to Ga then those are some of the consequences of moving away from
your kids. If she moved to Illinois, why was this allowed? What did you do to
try and stop her move?

>
>Now the attorney I retained in Illinois has done a 360 on me and tells me
>she doesn't think we can win it. What does it take...

The first thing it will take is a hefty retainer. In Cook County retainers are
on average 15K, and that's just to get started. A 20K custody battle is low
end.

The next thing it will take is you returning to live close to your children.
Judges in Illinois usually won't uproot children to another state.

Then you need to concentrate on what you can do to develop a co-parenting
relationship with your ex and make it happen. Go for 50/50 joint physical and
get the silly notion out of your head that any judge will allow you to split up
siblings and move one of the children 2000 miles away from their established
life, regardless of what a 12 year olds ever changing wishes are.

Mrs Indyguy
>
>
>
>"news.charter.net" > wrote in message
...
>> I'm hoping someone reading this can point me in the right direction, be
>able
>> to offer some advice, etc...
>>
>> I'm not looking to badmouth the mother, as justified as it would be, but
>> just want to focus on helping my son...
>>
>> I have recently moved to California from Georgia with my family. My
>ex-wife
>> lives in Illinois with our two sons (16 and 12.5 years old). For the past
>> two years my youngest son has been wanting to live with me. He is doing
>> very poorly in school, barely passing each grade level. I have begged his
>> mother to let him live with me so I can help him, even offering to keep
>> paying his child support during a six month trial period. These past two
>> years have been difficult for me financially, due in large part to a
>company
>> layoff in 2001. Still, she has been after me for every penny of child
>> support she can get, requiring numerous drives to Illinois just to get
>> reamed by the Judge. The latest was an $850 per month judgement and
>$6,700
>> in arrears for HER attorney fees (I had to represent myself).
>>
>> It is worth it to mention that I am convinced the reason she doesn't want
>to
>> give up custody is because of the child support. She is chronically
>> unemployed, living off welfare, church charity, and my child support.
>>
>> In the meantime, my son suffers, and I feel powerless to do anything.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Phil #3]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>
> "Anon" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Okay, here's some more detail...
> >
> > I just moved, remember, and having been paying her what I have, I am at
> the
> > end of my rope financially. Fighting a custody battle is expensive and
> time
> > consuming enough. Imagine trying to do it from about 2,000 miles away.
I
> > almost lost the job I had in Georgia a few times just to litigate the
> child
> > support issue because of all the time I had to take off work.
> >
> > Now the attorney I retained in Illinois has done a 360 on me and tells
me
> > she doesn't think we can win it. What does it take...
>
> I suspect you meant the attorney did a 180 on you. Once a family law
> attorney realizes they have sucked you dry financially, they make
statements
> like your attorney is making. If you are out of money, of course you
can't
> win because you can no longer afford her legal counsel. It's how the game
> is played.
>
>

My (blood-sucking, parasitic) lawyer kept 'nickel and diming' me right up to
the courthouse not counting the three separate retainers. When he arrived,
he took me aside and told me that I might as well sign and be done with it
since this was the best deal I could hope to get after literally months of
telling me "we can do better than this" (what my wife was asking). This was
5 minutes AFTER the hearing was supposed to start and the judge was
impatiently waiting for the case to be presented. What I know now is that I
would have lost less without an attorney and not have paid that SOB for the
privilege of sailing me up the proverbial creek.
Phil #3

[Kenneth S.]

In my view, the more realistic approach is not just to abandon any
notion that a judge in Illinois would give this father custody in the
current situation, but to abandon the notion that a judge in Illinois
would give him custody in ANY situation. Moving to Illinois in the
expectation that this would change the odds seems a forlorn hope.

I realize that many people find it impossible to accept that the courts
in the U.S. are simply flat-out biased against fathers. People can't
believe things are that bad. I realize too that there are attorneys who
will encourage the belief that fathers can win in custody fights.
However, the truth is that custody fights are "fights" in the same sense
that bullfights are "fights." The bull always loses, and fathers always
lose -- although in both types of fight the spectators are provided with
some amusement, and (in the case of custody fights) the lawyers are able
to line their pockets.

The custody situation will not be changed by individual action. It
will be changed only when fathers succeed in calling attention to the
glass ceiling on paternal custody, and when they manage to get the
statistics published about custody decisions overall, and in individual
judges' courts. Custody statistics should include the information
about decisions in out-of-court settlements, since it is well-known
that such settlements are affected by the parents' expectations about
what would happen in court.

Indyguy1 wrote:
>
> >Okay, here's some more detail...
> >
> >I just moved, remember, and having been paying her what I have, I am at the
> >end of my rope financially. Fighting a custody battle is expensive and time
> >consuming enough. Imagine trying to do it from about 2,000 miles away.
>
> If you are REALLY serious about obtaining custody the first you'd need to do is
> move back to Illinois. Find a dwelling in the kids present school district and
> get involved in the kids lives. To think any judge in Illinois would give you
> custody and order a child to leave their established area, friends, school, and
> other parent is foolish at best.
>
> I
> >almost lost the job I had in Georgia a few times just to litigate the child
> >support issue because of all the time I had to take off work.
>
> If you moved to Ga then those are some of the consequences of moving away from
> your kids. If she moved to Illinois, why was this allowed? What did you do to
> try and stop her move?
>
> >
> >Now the attorney I retained in Illinois has done a 360 on me and tells me
> >she doesn't think we can win it. What does it take...
>
> The first thing it will take is a hefty retainer. In Cook County retainers are
> on average 15K, and that's just to get started. A 20K custody battle is low
> end.
>
> The next thing it will take is you returning to live close to your children.
> Judges in Illinois usually won't uproot children to another state.
>
> Then you need to concentrate on what you can do to develop a co-parenting
> relationship with your ex and make it happen. Go for 50/50 joint physical and
> get the silly notion out of your head that any judge will allow you to split up
> siblings and move one of the children 2000 miles away from their established
> life, regardless of what a 12 year olds ever changing wishes are.
>
> Mrs Indyguy
> >
> >
> >
> >"news.charter.net" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> I'm hoping someone reading this can point me in the right direction, be
> >able
> >> to offer some advice, etc...
> >>
> >> I'm not looking to badmouth the mother, as justified as it would be, but
> >> just want to focus on helping my son...
> >>
> >> I have recently moved to California from Georgia with my family. My
> >ex-wife
> >> lives in Illinois with our two sons (16 and 12.5 years old). For the past
> >> two years my youngest son has been wanting to live with me. He is doing
> >> very poorly in school, barely passing each grade level. I have begged his
> >> mother to let him live with me so I can help him, even offering to keep
> >> paying his child support during a six month trial period. These past two
> >> years have been difficult for me financially, due in large part to a
> >company
> >> layoff in 2001. Still, she has been after me for every penny of child
> >> support she can get, requiring numerous drives to Illinois just to get
> >> reamed by the Judge. The latest was an $850 per month judgement and
> >$6,700
> >> in arrears for HER attorney fees (I had to represent myself).
> >>
> >> It is worth it to mention that I am convinced the reason she doesn't want
> >to
> >> give up custody is because of the child support. She is chronically
> >> unemployed, living off welfare, church charity, and my child support.
> >>
> >> In the meantime, my son suffers, and I feel powerless to do anything.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Meldon Fens]

news.charter.net > wrote in message
...
> I'm hoping someone reading this can point me in the right direction, be
able
> to offer some advice, etc...
>
> I'm not looking to badmouth the mother, as justified as it would be, but
> just want to focus on helping my son...
>
> I have recently moved to California from Georgia with my family. My
ex-wife
> lives in Illinois with our two sons (16 and 12.5 years old). For the past
> two years my youngest son has been wanting to live with me. He is doing
> very poorly in school, barely passing each grade level. I have begged his
> mother to let him live with me so I can help him, even offering to keep
> paying his child support during a six month trial period. These past two
> years have been difficult for me financially, due in large part to a
company
> layoff in 2001. Still, she has been after me for every penny of child
> support she can get, requiring numerous drives to Illinois just to get
> reamed by the Judge. The latest was an $850 per month judgement and
$6,700
> in arrears for HER attorney fees (I had to represent myself).


Been there done that.



>
> It is worth it to mention that I am convinced the reason she doesn't want
to
> give up custody is because of the child support. She is chronically
> unemployed, living off welfare, church charity, and my child support.
>
> In the meantime, my son suffers, and I feel powerless to do anything.
>
>


It is almost entirely about money. You can't forget about the control factor
and the fact that if he comes and does better, then she might "look bad".

This is precisely what the courts ignore in any child custody case. Since we
have to make it easy for a woman to get a divorce and receive custody of the
children, she has virtually no burden of proof. The man can provide
significant and compelling evidence but the burden of proof is extremely
high. It is gender bias in all it's glory.

[Anon]

Indyguy, you are telling me pretty much what I had expected. I had heard
that Illinois is the toughest out there as far as obtaining custody goes.

Just to inform anyone else, I never lived in Illinois, nor is it really
possible for me to move there. My current wife and I moved here to
California because her father was having medical problems. Plus, there
aren't really many opportunities in the industry we work in in Illinois to
make living there feasible.

Also, for the pessimists. I fought for, and won custody of my youngest two
children (8 and six years now) from ex #2 when living in Georgia. They are
here with me now in California. It IS possible.

I just absolutely HATE the thought that I am giving up on my son. It is not
just his present, but his future at stake, with his abysmal school
performance. I was hoping someone knew of an attorney, or a local advocacy
group, that I might be able to turn to.


"Kenneth S." > wrote in message
...
> In my view, the more realistic approach is not just to abandon any
> notion that a judge in Illinois would give this father custody in the
> current situation, but to abandon the notion that a judge in Illinois
> would give him custody in ANY situation. Moving to Illinois in the
> expectation that this would change the odds seems a forlorn hope.
>
> I realize that many people find it impossible to accept that the courts
> in the U.S. are simply flat-out biased against fathers. People can't
> believe things are that bad. I realize too that there are attorneys who
> will encourage the belief that fathers can win in custody fights.
> However, the truth is that custody fights are "fights" in the same sense
> that bullfights are "fights." The bull always loses, and fathers always
> lose -- although in both types of fight the spectators are provided with
> some amusement, and (in the case of custody fights) the lawyers are able
> to line their pockets.
>
> The custody situation will not be changed by individual action. It
> will be changed only when fathers succeed in calling attention to the
> glass ceiling on paternal custody, and when they manage to get the
> statistics published about custody decisions overall, and in individual
> judges' courts. Custody statistics should include the information
> about decisions in out-of-court settlements, since it is well-known
> that such settlements are affected by the parents' expectations about
> what would happen in court.
>
> Indyguy1 wrote:
> >
> > >Okay, here's some more detail...
> > >
> > >I just moved, remember, and having been paying her what I have, I am at
the
> > >end of my rope financially. Fighting a custody battle is expensive and
time
> > >consuming enough. Imagine trying to do it from about 2,000 miles away.
> >
> > If you are REALLY serious about obtaining custody the first you'd need
to do is
> > move back to Illinois. Find a dwelling in the kids present school
district and
> > get involved in the kids lives. To think any judge in Illinois would
give you
> > custody and order a child to leave their established area, friends,
school, and
> > other parent is foolish at best.
> >
> > I
> > >almost lost the job I had in Georgia a few times just to litigate the
child
> > >support issue because of all the time I had to take off work.
> >
> > If you moved to Ga then those are some of the consequences of moving
away from
> > your kids. If she moved to Illinois, why was this allowed? What did you
do to
> > try and stop her move?
> >
> > >
> > >Now the attorney I retained in Illinois has done a 360 on me and tells
me
> > >she doesn't think we can win it. What does it take...
> >
> > The first thing it will take is a hefty retainer. In Cook County
retainers are
> > on average 15K, and that's just to get started. A 20K custody battle is
low
> > end.
> >
> > The next thing it will take is you returning to live close to your
children.
> > Judges in Illinois usually won't uproot children to another state.
> >
> > Then you need to concentrate on what you can do to develop a
co-parenting
> > relationship with your ex and make it happen. Go for 50/50 joint
physical and
> > get the silly notion out of your head that any judge will allow you to
split up
> > siblings and move one of the children 2000 miles away from their
established
> > life, regardless of what a 12 year olds ever changing wishes are.
> >
> > Mrs Indyguy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >"news.charter.net" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >> I'm hoping someone reading this can point me in the right direction,
be
> > >able
> > >> to offer some advice, etc...
> > >>
> > >> I'm not looking to badmouth the mother, as justified as it would be,
but
> > >> just want to focus on helping my son...
> > >>
> > >> I have recently moved to California from Georgia with my family. My
> > >ex-wife
> > >> lives in Illinois with our two sons (16 and 12.5 years old). For the
past
> > >> two years my youngest son has been wanting to live with me. He is
doing
> > >> very poorly in school, barely passing each grade level. I have
begged his
> > >> mother to let him live with me so I can help him, even offering to
keep
> > >> paying his child support during a six month trial period. These past
two
> > >> years have been difficult for me financially, due in large part to a
> > >company
> > >> layoff in 2001. Still, she has been after me for every penny of
child
> > >> support she can get, requiring numerous drives to Illinois just to
get
> > >> reamed by the Judge. The latest was an $850 per month judgement and
> > >$6,700
> > >> in arrears for HER attorney fees (I had to represent myself).
> > >>
> > >> It is worth it to mention that I am convinced the reason she doesn't
want
> > >to
> > >> give up custody is because of the child support. She is chronically
> > >> unemployed, living off welfare, church charity, and my child support.
> > >>
> > >> In the meantime, my son suffers, and I feel powerless to do anything.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >