Re: Accused Teen Said to Keep Enemies List

[dfsdfasdf]

If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
where the father is the single parent.


On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> wrote:

>http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
>
>The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died nearly 10
>years ago
>
>

[Moon Shyne]

"dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
...
> If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
> kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
> has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
> and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
> nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
> where the father is the single parent.

Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers 'ruin'
children. Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would probably
appreciate it.


>
>
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > wrote:
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> >
> >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died nearly
10
> >years ago
> >
> >
>

[Freedom]

I believe one or more of columbine kids had stepparents.


"dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
...
> If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
> kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
> has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
> and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
> nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
> where the father is the single parent.
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > wrote:
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> >
> >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
nearly 10
> >years ago
> >
> >
>

[Freedom]

I don't know how you can ignore urban street gangs where the violence and
death sticks out like a sore thumb. In most all those situations the
fathers have been removed. These are well known facts.


"dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
...
> If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
> kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
> has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
> and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
> nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
> where the father is the single parent.
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > wrote:
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> >
> >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
nearly 10
> >years ago
> >
> >
>

[Phil #3]

"dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
...
> If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
> kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
> has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
> and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
> nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
> where the father is the single parent.
>

If "We just don't know..." how can you be so sure "...it has nothing to do
with..."?
Phil #3


>
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > wrote:
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> >
> >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
nearly 10
> >years ago
> >
> >
>

[dfsdfasdf]

On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:38:54 -0700, "Phil #3" >
wrote:

>
>"dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
...
>> If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
>> kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
>> has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
>> abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
>> anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
>> over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
>> and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
>> nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
>> where the father is the single parent.
>>
>
>If "We just don't know..." how can you be so sure "...it has nothing to do
>with..."?
>Phil #3
>
Yes, good point, but we know that these crimes are comitted by kids
from double parent homes and single mother homes, also. So the point
that is has nothing to do with coming from a single father home, yes,
of course it could, but it is a high probability that it has nothing
to do with that fact.



>
>>
>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
>> >
>> >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
>nearly 10
>> >years ago
>> >
>> >
>>
>

[The Dave©]

"Moon Shyne" wrote
> The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his
> wife died nearly 10 years ago

What's your point?

[Mel Gamble]

Columbine was an anomaly. The problem is kids who have failed to develop a
sense of worth and a sense of responsibility, kids who have failed to learn
that actions have consequences, kids that have their values all screwed up.
Columbine was ONE example of an "intact" family which failed to instill these
important lessons, possilbly in spite of all good intentions. This story is
ALSO an anomaly - it is ONE example of a single father who failed in the same
way.

But our prisons and juvenile detention centers are FULL of the status quo -
(mostly) men from single-mother-headed "families" where that same teaching
failed.

Kids from an intact family CAN "go bad". Kids from a single father home CAN
"go bad". But the statistics show that the odds of a kid going bad are MUCH
higher for kids from single mother homes.

Mel Gamble

>If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
>kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
>has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
>abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
>anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
>over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
>and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
>nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
>where the father is the single parent.
>
>
>On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> wrote:
>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
>>
>>The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died nearly
>10
>>years ago

[Mel Gamble]

You give nasty WAY too much credit, Chris.

Mel Gamble

>"Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
>> > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
>> > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
>> > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
>> > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
>> > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
>> > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
>> > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
>> > where the father is the single parent.
>>
>> Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers 'ruin'
>> children.
>
>The statistics speak for themselves.
>
>> Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would probably
>> appreciate it.
>
>There's a few of you.
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
>> > >
>> > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
>nearly
>> 10
>> > >years ago

[Mel Gamble]

Yes...

>On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:38:54 -0700, "Phil #3" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
...
>>> If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
>>> kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
>>> has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
>>> abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
>>> anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
>>> over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
>>> and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
>>> nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
>>> where the father is the single parent.
>>>
>>
>>If "We just don't know..." how can you be so sure "...it has nothing to do
>>with..."?
>>Phil #3
>>
>Yes, good point, but we know that these crimes are comitted by kids
>from double parent homes

But the odds are MUCH lower that kids from "double parent" homes will do such
things...

>and single mother homes, also.

Not just "also". Kids from single mother homes are much more likely to be
involved in such undertakings.

>So the point
>that is has nothing to do with coming from a single father home, yes,
>of course it could, but it is a high probability that it has nothing
>to do with that fact.

You mistakenly get this fact straight. The "probability" that a kid from a
single father home - or a "double parent" home - will be involved in one of
these crimes is much lower than the probability that a kid from a single-mother
home will be involved. So the fact that this particular kid is from a single
father home is just an anomaly among the statistics.

Mel Gamble

>>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
>>> >
>>> >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
>>nearly 10
>>> >years ago

[Kenneth S.]

Little Ms. Moonshine apparently is trying to turn this into a debate
about the relative merits of children growing up in fatherless v.
motherless families.

That, of course, is not the point.

The point is that the overall research information is crystal clear.
Children growing up in two-parent families do far better than children
who grow up in families where one parent is missing.

So, instead of doing everything we can to facilitate the breakup of
families (pretty much the present policy in the U.S.), we should be
trying to preserve two-parent families.

Mothers who themselves created single parent families SHOULD be the
focus of criticism. These women have inflicted serious damage on their
children, and it is very likely that they are sponging off the fathers
of their children. Unfortunately, in the present climate of opinion
such women are sheltered from well-deserved criticism by feminist
political correctness, which has succeeded in pulling the wool over most
people's eyes by persuading them that men are to blame for most family
and social problems. The truth is otherwise, and the situation will not
be fixed until there is more general recognition of the role of mothers
in creating the present problems.

Chris wrote:
>
> "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
> > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
> > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
> > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
> > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
> > > where the father is the single parent.
> >
> > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers 'ruin'
> > children.
>
> The statistics speak for themselves.
>
> > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would probably
> > appreciate it.
>
> There's a few of you.
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> > > >
> > > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
> nearly
> > 10
> > > >years ago
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >

[Paul Fritz]

"Chris" > wrote in message
news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
>
> "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
> > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
> > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
> > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
> > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
> > > where the father is the single parent.
> >
> > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers 'ruin'
> > children.
>
> The statistics speak for themselves.
>
> > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would probably
> > appreciate it.
>
> There's a few of you.

You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them


>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> > > >
> > > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
> nearly
> > 10
> > > >years ago
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Chris]

"Mel Gamble" > wrote in message
...
> You give nasty WAY too much credit, Chris.

It's called a handicap advantage.

>
> Mel Gamble
>
> >"Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
> >> > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe
this
> >> > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> >> > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> >> > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> >> > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
> >> > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
> >> > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent
homes
> >> > where the father is the single parent.
> >>
> >> Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers 'ruin'
> >> children.
> >
> >The statistics speak for themselves.
> >
> >> Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would probably
> >> appreciate it.
> >
> >There's a few of you.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> >> > >
> >> > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife
died
> >nearly
> >> 10
> >> > >years ago
>
>

[Chris]

"Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Chris" > wrote in message
> news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
> >
> > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
> > > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe
this
> > > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> > > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> > > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> > > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
> > > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it
has
> > > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent
homes
> > > > where the father is the single parent.
> > >
> > > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers
'ruin'
> > > children.
> >
> > The statistics speak for themselves.
> >
> > > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would probably
> > > appreciate it.
> >
> > There's a few of you.
>
> You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them

The saddest part about wrecking children is that they COULD have turned out
well; but NO....... single mama (and daddy on RARE occasions)had to screw
them up!

>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> > > > >
> > > > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife
died
> > nearly
> > > 10
> > > > >years ago
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Tiffany]

Chris > wrote in message
news:ZQWOa.69777$1e.20206@fed1read04...
>
> "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Chris" > wrote in message
> > news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
> > >
> > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant.
Columbine
> > > > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe
> this
> > > > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> > > > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> > > > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> > > > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize
it
> > > > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it
> has
> > > > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent
> homes
> > > > > where the father is the single parent.
> > > >
> > > > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers
> 'ruin'
> > > > children.
> > >
> > > The statistics speak for themselves.
> > >
> > > > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would
probably
> > > > appreciate it.
> > >
> > > There's a few of you.
> >
> > You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them
>
> The saddest part about wrecking children is that they COULD have turned
out
> well; but NO....... single mama (and daddy on RARE occasions)had to
screw
> them up!

Well honey, it took both my parents to screw me up. lol

[Chris]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Chris > wrote in message
> news:ZQWOa.69777$1e.20206@fed1read04...
> >
> > "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Chris" > wrote in message
> > > news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
> > > >
> > > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant.
> Columbine
> > > > > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't
believe
> > this
> > > > > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic
psychological
> > > > > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> > > > > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be
pushed
> > > > > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids'
internalize
> it
> > > > > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But
it
> > has
> > > > > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent
> > homes
> > > > > > where the father is the single parent.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers
> > 'ruin'
> > > > > children.
> > > >
> > > > The statistics speak for themselves.
> > > >
> > > > > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would
> probably
> > > > > appreciate it.
> > > >
> > > > There's a few of you.
> > >
> > > You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them
> >
> > The saddest part about wrecking children is that they COULD have turned
> out
> > well; but NO....... single mama (and daddy on RARE occasions)had to
> screw
> > them up!
>
> Well honey, it took both my parents to screw me up. lol

There you go; a perfect example of the exception to the rule.

>
>

[Bob Whiteside]

"Kenneth S." > wrote in message
...
> I'm not much concerned with convincing YOU about anything, Miz
> Moonshine. Since the days when you used to post under the name
> Anastasia, you have demonstrated that your views are of little account.
> (And it speaks volumes that, for your Internet names, your first choice
> was someone who was convincingly demonstrated to be a fraud, and your
> second was an alcoholic beverage that rots the brains of people in the
> backwoods).

Kenneth you are being too kind. The regulars here know "MoonShyne" means
Amy is exposing her bare buttocks into the face of the former Ms. Shyne who
posts here and has called Amy on the fabricated, delusional postings and her
propensity to display aggressive PAS characteristics.

I'm just wondering how Moonie's imaginary second husband is dealing with all
of her man hating rhetoric.

[Kenneth S.]

Bob Whiteside wrote:
>
> "Kenneth S." > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm not much concerned with convincing YOU about anything, Miz
> > Moonshine. Since the days when you used to post under the name
> > Anastasia, you have demonstrated that your views are of little account.
> > (And it speaks volumes that, for your Internet names, your first choice
> > was someone who was convincingly demonstrated to be a fraud, and your
> > second was an alcoholic beverage that rots the brains of people in the
> > backwoods).
>
> Kenneth you are being too kind. The regulars here know "MoonShyne" means
> Amy is exposing her bare buttocks into the face of the former Ms. Shyne who
> posts here and has called Amy on the fabricated, delusional postings and her
> propensity to display aggressive PAS characteristics.
>
> I'm just wondering how Moonie's imaginary second husband is dealing with all
> of her man hating rhetoric.


You're right, Bob. Being too kind has always been a problem for me.

But the thought of Miz Moonshine's bare buttocks is too much even for
kind old me to stomach. All I can do is avert my eyes from such a
hideous sight.

[Chris]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Chris > wrote in message news:go0Pa.55$OP.9@fed1read04...
> >
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Chris > wrote in message
> > > news:ZQWOa.69777$1e.20206@fed1read04...
> > > >
> > > > "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Chris" > wrote in message
> > > > > news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant.
> > > Columbine
> > > > > > > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't
> > believe
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic
> > psychological
> > > > > > > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and
pent
> up
> > > > > > > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be
> > pushed
> > > > > > > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids'
> > internalize
> > > it
> > > > > > > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows?
But
> > it
> > > > has
> > > > > > > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single
> parent
> > > > homes
> > > > > > > > where the father is the single parent.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single
mothers
> > > > 'ruin'
> > > > > > > children.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The statistics speak for themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would
> > > probably
> > > > > > > appreciate it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There's a few of you.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them
> > > >
> > > > The saddest part about wrecking children is that they COULD have
> turned
> > > out
> > > > well; but NO....... single mama (and daddy on RARE occasions)had
to
> > > screw
> > > > them up!
> > >
> > > Well honey, it took both my parents to screw me up. lol
> >
> > There you go; a perfect example of the exception to the rule.
> >
> > >
>
>
> lol....actually if you think about it, for all the women and men who are
> currently screwing up their children, they were brought up in a generation
> where divorce rates were very low. So I would not be the exception, now
> would I?

The exception is TWO parents screwing up the kid; or didn't you catch that?

>
>

[Moon Shyne]

"Kenneth S." > wrote in message ...
> Bob Whiteside wrote:
> >
> > "Kenneth S." > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'm not much concerned with convincing YOU about anything, Miz
> > > Moonshine. Since the days when you used to post under the name
> > > Anastasia, you have demonstrated that your views are of little account.
> > > (And it speaks volumes that, for your Internet names, your first choice
> > > was someone who was convincingly demonstrated to be a fraud, and your
> > > second was an alcoholic beverage that rots the brains of people in the
> > > backwoods).
> >
> > Kenneth you are being too kind. The regulars here know "MoonShyne" means
> > Amy is exposing her bare buttocks into the face of the former Ms. Shyne who
> > posts here and has called Amy on the fabricated, delusional postings and her
> > propensity to display aggressive PAS characteristics.
> >
> > I'm just wondering how Moonie's imaginary second husband is dealing with all
> > of her man hating rhetoric.
>
>
> You're right, Bob. Being too kind has always been a problem for me.
>
> But the thought of Miz Moonshine's bare buttocks is too much even for
> kind old me to stomach. All I can do is avert my eyes from such a
> hideous sight.

And yet more flaming from the two of you, rather than any actual discussion
about the article.

Not surprising at all...........

[Chris]

"Mel Gamble" > wrote in message
...
> Columbine was an anomaly. The problem is kids who have failed to develop
a
> sense of worth and a sense of responsibility, kids who have failed to
learn
> that actions have consequences, kids that have their values all screwed
up.
> Columbine was ONE example of an "intact" family which failed to instill
these
> important lessons, possilbly in spite of all good intentions. This story
is
> ALSO an anomaly - it is ONE example of a single father who failed in the
same
> way.
>
> But our prisons and juvenile detention centers are FULL of the status
quo -
> (mostly) men from single-mother-headed "families" where that same teaching
> failed.
>
> Kids from an intact family CAN "go bad". Kids from a single father home
CAN
> "go bad". But the statistics show that the odds of a kid going bad are
MUCH
> higher for kids from single mother homes.

A fact that the family kourts (and their advocates) just LOVE to ignore; or
they are well aware of it and simply choose to push their evil agenda.

>
> Mel Gamble
>
> >If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
> >kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
> >has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> >abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> >anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> >over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
> >and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
> >nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
> >where the father is the single parent.
> >
> >
> >On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > wrote:
> >
> >>http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> >>
> >>The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
nearly
> >10
> >>years ago
>
>

[Chris]

"Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Chris" > wrote in message
> > news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
> > >
> > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant.
Columbine
> > > > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe
this
> > > > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> > > > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> > > > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> > > > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize
it
> > > > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it
has
> > > > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent
homes
> > > > > where the father is the single parent.
> > > >
> > > > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers
'ruin'
> > > > children.
> > >
> > > The statistics speak for themselves.
> > >
> > > > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would
probably
> > > > appreciate it.
> > >
> > > There's a few of you.
> >
> > You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them
>
> I don't know which I find more amusing - that you would use the posting of
a
> newspaper article as yet another opportunity to flame me,
personally........ or
> that you would attempt to flame me personally, and my mothering, when
you've met
> neither me, nor my children.

Have you met Bill Clinton personally?

>
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife
died
> > > nearly
> > > > 10
> > > > > >years ago
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Sunny]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:16:05 GMT, "Bob Whiteside"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth S." > wrote in message
...
>> I'm not much concerned with convincing YOU about anything, Miz
>> Moonshine. Since the days when you used to post under the name
>> Anastasia, you have demonstrated that your views are of little account.
>> (And it speaks volumes that, for your Internet names, your first choice
>> was someone who was convincingly demonstrated to be a fraud, and your
>> second was an alcoholic beverage that rots the brains of people in the
>> backwoods).
>
>Kenneth you are being too kind. The regulars here know "MoonShyne" means
>Amy is exposing her bare buttocks into the face of the former Ms. Shyne who
>posts here and has called Amy on the fabricated, delusional postings and her
>propensity to display aggressive PAS characteristics.

This is completely correct.

>I'm just wondering how Moonie's imaginary second husband is dealing with all
>of her man hating rhetoric.

Cardboard never feels pain.

I would love to meet her lawyer, who tells her that her innumerable
ongoing court cases against her ex can be filed under her former
husband's last name instead of her supposedly new married name. Huh.
That's a first.

[Sunny]

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:13:46 -0400, "Kenneth S." >
wrote:

>Bob Whiteside wrote:
>>
>> "Kenneth S." > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I'm not much concerned with convincing YOU about anything, Miz
>> > Moonshine. Since the days when you used to post under the name
>> > Anastasia, you have demonstrated that your views are of little account.
>> > (And it speaks volumes that, for your Internet names, your first choice
>> > was someone who was convincingly demonstrated to be a fraud, and your
>> > second was an alcoholic beverage that rots the brains of people in the
>> > backwoods).
>>
>> Kenneth you are being too kind. The regulars here know "MoonShyne" means
>> Amy is exposing her bare buttocks into the face of the former Ms. Shyne who
>> posts here and has called Amy on the fabricated, delusional postings and her
>> propensity to display aggressive PAS characteristics.
>>
>> I'm just wondering how Moonie's imaginary second husband is dealing with all
>> of her man hating rhetoric.
>
>
> You're right, Bob. Being too kind has always been a problem for me.

Not a bad fault to have.

> But the thought of Miz Moonshine's bare buttocks is too much even for
>kind old me to stomach. All I can do is avert my eyes from such a
>hideous sight.

Good policy. If they're anything like her face, they are pockmarked
with acne scars and overly pierced.

I offered her a deal -- change her cleverly offensive name, and I'll
stop replying to all of her posts. She chooses not to. She likes the
negative attention, which she calls "harassment."

[Moon Shyne]

"Sunny" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 20:20:19 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"The Dave©" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> >> "Moon Shyne" wrote
> >> > "Kenneth S." wrote
> >> > > Little Ms. Moonshine apparently is trying to turn
> >> > > this into a debate about the relative merits of
> >> > > children growing up in fatherless v.
> >> > > motherless families.
> >> >
> >> > I didn't turn anything into anything - I posted the
> >> > original link to the newspaper story.
> >>
> >> If it were only that. You also posted a comment, did you not?
>
> She did.
>
> >> What was the
> >> purpose behind your comment?
> >
> >I posted no comments of my own - it was a quote out of the article.
>
> It's often hard to tell the difference, seeing as you have a penchant
> for plagiarism.
>
> But you DID post a comment:
>
> "Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers
> 'ruin' children. Those of us mothers raising good, considerate
> children would probably appreciate it."
>
> That was not in the article.
>
> Who is the "us" that you refer to? You are including yourself among
> good mothers, after all you have done?
>
> Your children, while perhaps considerate to you, are damaged by your
> actions toward their father. That is a given.

Still can't control yourself - just have to keep replying to my posts.........
*that* is a given.

>
> >> > You, on the other hand, appear to be trying to hi-jack
> >> > this into your own personal soapbox, for a harangue that
> >> > we've all seen you post innumerable times.
>
>

[Moon Shyne]

"Chris" > wrote in message news:8LfPa.548$zy.363@fed1read06...
>
> "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Chris" > wrote in message
> > > news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
> > > >
> > > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant.
> Columbine
> > > > > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe
> this
> > > > > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
> > > > > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
> > > > > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
> > > > > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize
> it
> > > > > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it
> has
> > > > > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent
> homes
> > > > > > where the father is the single parent.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers
> 'ruin'
> > > > > children.
> > > >
> > > > The statistics speak for themselves.
> > > >
> > > > > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would
> probably
> > > > > appreciate it.
> > > >
> > > > There's a few of you.
> > >
> > > You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them
> >
> > I don't know which I find more amusing - that you would use the posting of
> a
> > newspaper article as yet another opportunity to flame me,
> personally........ or
> > that you would attempt to flame me personally, and my mothering, when
> you've met
> > neither me, nor my children.
>
> Have you met Bill Clinton personally?

Non sequitor

>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife
> died
> > > > nearly
> > > > > 10
> > > > > > >years ago
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[The Dave©]

"Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sunny" > wrote in message
> ...

Sybil?

[Chris]

"Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Chris" > wrote in message
news:8LfPa.548$zy.363@fed1read06...
> >
> > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Chris" > wrote in message
> > > > news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant.
> > Columbine
> > > > > > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't
believe
> > this
> > > > > > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic
psychological
> > > > > > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent
up
> > > > > > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be
pushed
> > > > > > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids'
internalize
> > it
> > > > > > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But
it
> > has
> > > > > > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single
parent
> > homes
> > > > > > > where the father is the single parent.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers
> > 'ruin'
> > > > > > children.
> > > > >
> > > > > The statistics speak for themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would
> > probably
> > > > > > appreciate it.
> > > > >
> > > > > There's a few of you.
> > > >
> > > > You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them
> > >
> > > I don't know which I find more amusing - that you would use the
posting of
> > a
> > > newspaper article as yet another opportunity to flame me,
> > personally........ or
> > > that you would attempt to flame me personally, and my mothering, when
> > you've met
> > > neither me, nor my children.
> >
> > Have you met Bill Clinton personally?
>
> Non sequitor

It's not a comment; it's a question.

>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his
wife
> > died
> > > > > nearly
> > > > > > 10
> > > > > > > >years ago
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Mel Gamble]

They just don't give a nasty what happens to the kids, Chris. And that's
giving them the benefit of the doubt - they may well rejoice every time one of
them shows indications of turning out like the young man in the article....job
security at any cost.

Mel Gamble

>"Mel Gamble" > wrote in message
...
>> Columbine was an anomaly. The problem is kids who have failed to develop
>a
>> sense of worth and a sense of responsibility, kids who have failed to
>learn
>> that actions have consequences, kids that have their values all screwed
>up.
>> Columbine was ONE example of an "intact" family which failed to instill
>these
>> important lessons, possilbly in spite of all good intentions. This story
>is
>> ALSO an anomaly - it is ONE example of a single father who failed in the
>same
>> way.
>>
>> But our prisons and juvenile detention centers are FULL of the status
>quo -
>> (mostly) men from single-mother-headed "families" where that same teaching
>> failed.
>>
>> Kids from an intact family CAN "go bad". Kids from a single father home
>CAN
>> "go bad". But the statistics show that the odds of a kid going bad are
>MUCH
>> higher for kids from single mother homes.
>
>A fact that the family kourts (and their advocates) just LOVE to ignore; or
>they are well aware of it and simply choose to push their evil agenda.
>
>>
>> Mel Gamble
>>
>> >If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant. Columbine
>> >kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't believe this
>> >has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic psychological
>> >abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent up
>> >anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be pushed
>> >over the edge from being picked on, while other kids' internalize it
>> >and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But it has
>> >nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single parent homes
>> >where the father is the single parent.
>> >
>> >
>> >On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
>> >>
>> >>The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his wife died
>nearly
>> >10
>> >>years ago

[Moon Shyne]

"Chris" > wrote in message news:aqrPa.1112$zy.60@fed1read06...
>
> "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Chris" > wrote in message
> news:8LfPa.548$zy.363@fed1read06...
> > >
> > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Chris" > wrote in message
> > > > > news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant.
> > > Columbine
> > > > > > > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't
> believe
> > > this
> > > > > > > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic
> psychological
> > > > > > > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and pent
> up
> > > > > > > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to be
> pushed
> > > > > > > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids'
> internalize
> > > it
> > > > > > > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows? But
> it
> > > has
> > > > > > > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single
> parent
> > > homes
> > > > > > > > where the father is the single parent.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single mothers
> > > 'ruin'
> > > > > > > children.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The statistics speak for themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would
> > > probably
> > > > > > > appreciate it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There's a few of you.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them
> > > >
> > > > I don't know which I find more amusing - that you would use the
> posting of
> > > a
> > > > newspaper article as yet another opportunity to flame me,
> > > personally........ or
> > > > that you would attempt to flame me personally, and my mothering, when
> > > you've met
> > > > neither me, nor my children.
> > >
> > > Have you met Bill Clinton personally?
> >
> > Non sequitor
>
> It's not a comment; it's a question.

It still has nothing to do with anything - nor does it have anything to do with
people who would use the posting of a newspaper article (about someone else) as
an opportunity to attack me and my mothering of my children, when they've met
neither.

If they want to continue to make things up this way, they only make themselves
look bad.


>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since his
> wife
> > > died
> > > > > > nearly
> > > > > > > 10
> > > > > > > > >years ago
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Chris]

"Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Chris" > wrote in message
news:aqrPa.1112$zy.60@fed1read06...
> >
> > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Chris" > wrote in message
> > news:8LfPa.548$zy.363@fed1read06...
> > > >
> > > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Chris" > wrote in message
> > > > > > news:orOOa.124729$MJ5.36547@fed1read03...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Moon Shyne" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "dfsdfasdf" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > If someone takes this angle about this they are ignorant.
> > > > Columbine
> > > > > > > > > kids had both parents, what was the excuse there? I don't
> > believe
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > > has anything to do with psychosis or even systematic
> > psychological
> > > > > > > > > abuse by classmates, which can cause mental problems and
pent
> > up
> > > > > > > > > anger. We just don't know what motivates certain kids to
be
> > pushed
> > > > > > > > > over the edge from being picked on, while other kids'
> > internalize
> > > > it
> > > > > > > > > and grow up with low self-esteem and complexes. Who knows?
But
> > it
> > > > has
> > > > > > > > > nothing to do with single parent homes, especially single
> > parent
> > > > homes
> > > > > > > > > where the father is the single parent.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then perhaps we'll quit hearing so much about how single
mothers
> > > > 'ruin'
> > > > > > > > children.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The statistics speak for themselves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Those of us mothers raising good, considerate children would
> > > > probably
> > > > > > > > appreciate it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There's a few of you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You can bet the ranch she ain't one of them
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know which I find more amusing - that you would use the
> > posting of
> > > > a
> > > > > newspaper article as yet another opportunity to flame me,
> > > > personally........ or
> > > > > that you would attempt to flame me personally, and my mothering,
when
> > > > you've met
> > > > > neither me, nor my children.
> > > >
> > > > Have you met Bill Clinton personally?
> > >
> > > Non sequitor
> >
> > It's not a comment; it's a question.
>
> It still has nothing to do with anything - nor does it have anything to do
with
> people who would use the posting of a newspaper article (about someone
else) as
> an opportunity to attack me and my mothering of my children, when they've
met
> neither.

Is it a prerequisite to meet someone in person before making claims against
their character?

>
> If they want to continue to make things up this way, they only make
themselves
> look bad.
>
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:54:21 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
>http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Teen-Plot.html
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >The father, Ron Lovett, has raised his sons alone since
his
> > wife
> > > > died
> > > > > > > nearly
> > > > > > > > 10
> > > > > > > > > >years ago
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[TeacherMama]

(Mel Gamble) wrote in message >...
> Columbine was an anomaly. The problem is kids who have failed to develop a
> sense of worth and a sense of responsibility, kids who have failed to learn
> that actions have consequences, kids that have their values all screwed up.
> Columbine was ONE example of an "intact" family which failed to instill these
> important lessons, possilbly in spite of all good intentions. This story is
> ALSO an anomaly - it is ONE example of a single father who failed in the same
> way.
>
> But our prisons and juvenile detention centers are FULL of the status quo -
> (mostly) men from single-mother-headed "families" where that same teaching
> failed.
>
> Kids from an intact family CAN "go bad". Kids from a single father home CAN
> "go bad". But the statistics show that the odds of a kid going bad are MUCH
> higher for kids from single mother homes.

I sometimes wonder about that, Mel. If the preponderance of
single-parent homes were single father homes, would statistics show
that children from single father homes fared more poorly than others?
Do children from single mother homes do so much more poorly
statistically because mothers are granted custody almost as a matter
of course whether they are the better parent or not, and the fathers
who fight to raise their children are the fathers who really, really
want them, so will do a good job raising them? (Of course, I am not
saying that if a father does not get custody, he doesn't really want
his kids enough) Or are the statistics saying that children really do
need both parents to have the best chance of turning out as balanced,
happy, responsible adults with both parents actively involved in their
lives. And, if both parents are not involved, then a concerned
parent, actively involved in the child's life is the next best thing.
I just don't think we can jump from "single mothers are crappy, single
fathers are better" based on the statistics until we see how the kids
turn out with 50/50 custody being the norm, and those cases that
aren't 50/50 divided evenly between mothers and fathers.
>
>

[Mel Gamble]

That's a good question, Teach, basically boiling down to "Is the average father
a better parent than the average mother?" Or is that really the question we're
looking at? I don't think so. When we see all the negative stats that come
out of single-parent homes, we can see at least one or two things that all
these negatives have in common - a poor sense of responsibility and an
inability to follow (society's) rules. In the "what ever happened to them"
two-parent family that we're prone to compare to, those just happened to be
aspects of maturing that were more often put under the father's guiding hand.

With the traditional set of values learned from the father on one side and the
traditional set learned from the mother on the other, it seems fairly easy to
see that a failure to gain those that are on the father's side would be more
likely to cause a child or young adult to become one of these statistics we
read about. It's not that the things on mother's side are any less important
in an overall sense, it's just that losing them is less likely to cause a child
to become one of the stats.

So, assuming that fathers and mothers were equally dedicated to doing a good
job, I would say that kids from a single-father home would tend to do better in
these particular stats because the fathers would view "doing a good job" as
concentrating on those particular things which would be more likely to help the
kids avoid becoming stats.

Now for the part that's more difficult. I wrote above "... assuming the
fathers and mothers were equally dedicated to doing a good job ..." I don't
believe that's true in our current world. We have spent too many decades
telling fathers that not only were they not necessary to raise kids....we don't
even want them trying. At the same time, we've put enormous pressure on
girls/women to be the one who will sacrifice anything and everything to keep
and raise the kids. I've written about this before. I think this has caused a
lot of mothers to feel they have NO CHOICE but to raise the kids, even when it
was the LAST thing they wanted to do. I think this has resulted in a lot of
very poor mothers insisting on raising their kids and doing a very poor job of
it. But I also think it has probably made dedicated parents out of some
mothers who would have been mediocre parents without the added pressure

Sooo....full answer - if a coin were tossed in each case and fathers got the
kids half the time and mothers the other half ... I have to say that I don't
know if the stats would be any better. I also have to say that in an overall
sense we'd probably see a (small) decline in the overall quality of parenting.
The difficulty in answering this question is that it's much easier to see the
importance of NOT robbing a liquor store or NOT becoming pregnant at 13 than it
is to see the the importance of making sure you're always dressed in clean
clothes or that you always get sufficient sleep or that you know how to fix
your own meals.

Even sticking with the narrow view of "good parenting" as defined by avoiding
becoming one of these stats, I think it should be fairly obvious that by far
the better situation is two loving parents, with single parents of either
gender following a distant second and third.

Mel Gamble

(Mel Gamble) wrote in message
>...
>> Columbine was an anomaly. The problem is kids who have failed to develop a
>> sense of worth and a sense of responsibility, kids who have failed to learn
>> that actions have consequences, kids that have their values all screwed up.
>
>> Columbine was ONE example of an "intact" family which failed to instill
>these
>> important lessons, possilbly in spite of all good intentions. This story
>is
>> ALSO an anomaly - it is ONE example of a single father who failed in the
>same
>> way.
>>
>> But our prisons and juvenile detention centers are FULL of the status quo -
>> (mostly) men from single-mother-headed "families" where that same teaching
>> failed.
>>
>> Kids from an intact family CAN "go bad". Kids from a single father home
>CAN
>> "go bad". But the statistics show that the odds of a kid going bad are
>MUCH
>> higher for kids from single mother homes.
>
>I sometimes wonder about that, Mel. If the preponderance of
>single-parent homes were single father homes, would statistics show
>that children from single father homes fared more poorly than others?
>Do children from single mother homes do so much more poorly
>statistically because mothers are granted custody almost as a matter
>of course whether they are the better parent or not, and the fathers
>who fight to raise their children are the fathers who really, really
>want them, so will do a good job raising them? (Of course, I am not
>saying that if a father does not get custody, he doesn't really want
>his kids enough) Or are the statistics saying that children really do
>need both parents to have the best chance of turning out as balanced,
>happy, responsible adults with both parents actively involved in their
>lives. And, if both parents are not involved, then a concerned
>parent, actively involved in the child's life is the next best thing.
>I just don't think we can jump from "single mothers are crappy, single
>fathers are better" based on the statistics until we see how the kids
>turn out with 50/50 custody being the norm, and those cases that
>aren't 50/50 divided evenly between mothers and fathers.

[Sunny]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:51:16 -0500, "Moon Shyne"
> wrote:
>"Sunny" > wrote in message
...

>> Your children, while perhaps considerate to you, are damaged by your
>> actions toward their father. That is a given.
>
>Still can't control yourself - just have to keep replying to my posts.........
>*that* is a given.

Why, it appears to be mutual!