Update: Problems with 14yr old sister...

[Daniel]

Here is an update on what has happened so far. I finally got the chance to
talk to her last night (she keeps putting that kind of stuff off & I think
it ended with more of a "to be continued" than anything else). She said
that she's noticed a change in me since I've got with my girlfriend, though
she admitted that what she was seeing wasn't a bad change. She talked
though as if she wasn't talking but someone else was talking through her &
she was giving the thoughts they put into her head. She tried to argue that
I don't spend as much time at the computer any more. I explained to her
that the main reason I did before is because I didn't have much else to do
(wont go into the details of it on this post...but basically my whole life,
mainly growing up, I've been forced into having to put all my time &
attention into something because there wasn't anything/anyone else worth
being around until more recently with her...& even then it was durring any
time I wasn't with her). She also said that she thinks my girlfriend has
changed the way I dress. This because since I've met her, I've found 2
shirts that have dragon pictures on them, rather than the usual plain solid
or stripped that I'd normally wear. I explained to her that she didn't get
them for me but simply showed me that they were at the store we happened to
be in at the time (& she recognized that I might like them based on many of
the video games that I've played). My sister did agree on this after I
explained it to her (& 2 shirts isn't hardly changing someone's look). She
also tried to argue also that I'm neglecting my responsibilities (but
couldn't give any example...& then finally agreed in more of a confused/"why
did I say that"/"what did I even mean by that" that this wasn't true. She
asked that I remind her to do the dishes or other chores & not yell at her
for not doing them...but then immediately recognized that not only have I
not yelled at her for not doing her chores (I simply don't give her as much
allowance for it...she gets allowance based on a percentage of how much she
does vs. how much I do..& I let her do as much as she wants so she could get
double the amount, & she agrees that allowance is payment for work done, not
a gift, & doesnt have a problem with the way I do it), but I also have
reminded her many times & she still didn't get them done (remind her to do
something mid day Saturday, she's home all day & reminded her sunday too,
then didnt do it Monday & finally did a last minute half-assed job Tuesday
morning before leaving). She then brought up the fact that we've not spent
much time together lately, however she agreed that I've given her the chance
& she's chosen to be gone until late in the evenings & then hide in her room
the rest of the night, & where I've had to plan activities for her in order
to get her to be with me. She also did recognize that I didn't like coming
home after my recent trip & after not having seen her for 8 days (which is
the longest time she's not seen me in about 1.5 yrs), her first thing she
asked (I called her, she was at a friend's house about a 10 minute walk
away) was if she could go over to her boyfriend's house for a few hrs
(BEFORE seeing me...since he was more important). Her excuse was that she
was upset that I at first (before knowing the full travel information) said
I'd be home about 7-8PM, but then got home a few hrs before that (&
understood this wasn't a valid arguement since she had a copy of all the
flight information & could have met me at the airport had she wanted
to...she even knew exactly when each plain would take off & land...even the
ones that didnt concern her...an exact copy of all the info that I had/I
just printed 2 of them). Another thing she tried to say was that she heard
that I've talked to her social worker & told them of her sneaking around &
about her 19yr old boyfriend & that I didn't want her any more. I finally
got her to admit where she'd heard that...it was from our friend (who I'd
known for 5.5 yrs & who has done allot for me & I've done allot for her). I
explained that this wasn't true because she knows she doesnt even have a
social worker, & when I offered to prove it to her by showing her the phone
bill (which logs date/time/phone# of incoming & outgoing calls), she
declined to see the proof that I was telling the trueth & agreed with me
that I'd not been trying to get her in trouble or get rid of her. But this
brings up a further problem. This friend (according to their chat logs) has
apparently for the past few months been telling me one thing & telling my
sister another. She's been supporting me on not liking what has been going
on with this guy but then turns around & helps my sister with it & lets her
know how much I know about things (I never told her I've been reading the
logs of my sister & her boyfriend...& only recently read the full log for my
sister & her). She even offered & agreed to cover for my sister this past
week, to have my sister stay with her through the week but actually to let
her spend the night with her boyfriend (19yr old) (she is not only
supportive of an innappropriate relationship with someone who has been
causing my sister some problems, but is willing to lie to me & cover things
up for her...this after all that we've done for each other too in the past
5.5 yrs.) So now I've got another problem that has been found too (for
those who don't approve of chat logging & spying in that sense...this is why
I did it...now I know who to watch out for as well.) My girlfriend & I have
thought of the possibility of jelousy that she's no longer the only
important person in my life (she did somewhat finish raising me & has tought
me allot). Though my girlfriend's sister has suggested the possibility of
jelousy in that I'm not HER boyfriend. We've both disagreed on this due to
the facts that she's had over 5yrs to have decided to go that direction with
me had she wanted to, has had more than enough time to have done that (based
on the timings & amount of time spent together, plus me living with her this
past summer), & had not shown any interest in anything more than a big
sister type of relationship with me (the reason I'd never thought of that
possibility myself). My sister acted throughout the conversation as if she
was quoting/reading a script when making her various claims about what has
supposedly been different lately (I say this seeing how easy it was to
explain the reasoning to her or correct her on her thoughts & how she
appeared more as if she was looking for proof that those thoughts/ideas
weren't right). There will probably be more to talk to her about later (as
she was somewhat preocupied at the time...but if I try to sit her down with
nothing to distract her she ends the conversation very quickly, needing to
go do something else & wont talk...so thats why I didnt mind her doing other
things at the time). I'll post an update later on that & any
feedback/questions too.

(for those who think I'm making excuses of why I'm not trying certain things
& that I'm not really looking for input...if I weren't then why would I be
taking the time to post/follow up here? For those others who have made
suggestions & comments that have been good ideas & useful, thank you for
your time & please continue to contribute.)

--

--

There are 10 types of people in this world...
....those who understand binary & those who dont.

[Joelle]

>My sister acted throughout the conversation as if she
>was quoting/reading a script when making her various claims about what has
>supposedly been different lately (I say this seeing how easy it was to
>explain the reasoning to her

So everything she said to you - you had a counter argument and "explanation"
and you calmly explained to her how wrong she was about everything. How nice.
That would make me want to talke to you again.

>(for those who think I'm making excuses of why I'm not trying certain things
>& that I'm not really looking for input...if I weren't then why would I be
>taking the time to post/follow up here?

So you can justify, defend and "explain" yourself - the same way you did when
you supposedly "listened" to your little sister.

Next time, just listen. Try to see it from her perspective, right or wrong,
that's how it feels to her and she took the time to try to tell you and all you
did was shoot her down. That's not listening. It's not about you and
defending or explaining yourself to her. It's about her and trying to
understand what she is going through and how it feels.

Before you answer right away about how I'm wrong, just take a breath. You
don't have to defend yourself. I'm sure you care about your sister and are
trying to help her- but you seem to have a need to justify yourself - here and
to your sister that is getting in the way of your ability to listen. Next time
she talks to you (if you get that chance) try just shutting up and hearing her.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Lisa]

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> >My sister acted throughout the conversation as if she
> >was quoting/reading a script when making her various claims about what
has
> >supposedly been different lately (I say this seeing how easy it was to
> >explain the reasoning to her
>
> So everything she said to you - you had a counter argument and
"explanation"
> and you calmly explained to her how wrong she was about everything. How
nice.
> That would make me want to talke to you again.
>
> >(for those who think I'm making excuses of why I'm not trying certain
things
> >& that I'm not really looking for input...if I weren't then why would I
be
> >taking the time to post/follow up here?
>
> So you can justify, defend and "explain" yourself - the same way you did
when
> you supposedly "listened" to your little sister.
>
> Next time, just listen. Try to see it from her perspective, right or
wrong,
> that's how it feels to her and she took the time to try to tell you and
all you
> did was shoot her down. That's not listening. It's not about you and
> defending or explaining yourself to her. It's about her and trying to
> understand what she is going through and how it feels.
>

The mind of a 14 year old is easily filled with perceptions. This young
girl is exposed to a lot of perceptions by outside influences that are not
exactly meant to be in the mix. Those perceptions are simply an
interpretation or understanding. Interpretations need clarification in
order to agree on an understanding. It sounds to me like Daniel did hear
his sister out, and addressed each of her perceptions with clarification.
Nor do I think Daniel is making "it all about him", in that he is more the
central topic of the all the things his sister brought up.

Lesson learned, though, Daniel, is that I hope next time you realize that
only you can really count on yourself to give the guidance and supervision
to your sister that you feel appropriate. Clearly, the friend that you had
asked to keep an eye wasn't helping a whole lot.

Lisa





> Before you answer right away about how I'm wrong, just take a breath. You
> don't have to defend yourself. I'm sure you care about your sister and
are
> trying to help her- but you seem to have a need to justify yourself - here
and
> to your sister that is getting in the way of your ability to listen. Next
time
> she talks to you (if you get that chance) try just shutting up and hearing
her.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

[Daniel]

"Lisa" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Joelle" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >My sister acted throughout the conversation as if she
> > >was quoting/reading a script when making her various claims about what
> has
> > >supposedly been different lately (I say this seeing how easy it was to
> > >explain the reasoning to her
> >
> > So everything she said to you - you had a counter argument and
> "explanation"
> > and you calmly explained to her how wrong she was about everything. How
> nice.
> > That would make me want to talke to you again.
> >
> > >(for those who think I'm making excuses of why I'm not trying certain
> things
> > >& that I'm not really looking for input...if I weren't then why would I
> be
> > >taking the time to post/follow up here?
> >
> > So you can justify, defend and "explain" yourself - the same way you did
> when
> > you supposedly "listened" to your little sister.
> >
> > Next time, just listen. Try to see it from her perspective, right or
> wrong,
> > that's how it feels to her and she took the time to try to tell you and
> all you
> > did was shoot her down. That's not listening. It's not about you and
> > defending or explaining yourself to her. It's about her and trying to
> > understand what she is going through and how it feels.
> >
>
> The mind of a 14 year old is easily filled with perceptions. This young
> girl is exposed to a lot of perceptions by outside influences that are not
> exactly meant to be in the mix. Those perceptions are simply an
> interpretation or understanding. Interpretations need clarification in
> order to agree on an understanding. It sounds to me like Daniel did hear
> his sister out, and addressed each of her perceptions with clarification.
> Nor do I think Daniel is making "it all about him", in that he is more the
> central topic of the all the things his sister brought up.
>
I thank you for seeing it this way...just because someone explains or
clarifies something doesnt mean they are making excuses. If an explaination
is just an excuse, then anyone who believes this should go & carry their
vehicle to work rather than drive it & don't try to blame it on a ficticious
force you call gravity that you say is pulling to to the grownd & is
overpowering your ability to hold it up...you're just too lazy & too week to
carry it yourself. When I gave my explinations, she appeared to understand
them & see that her thinking was wrong & why.

> Lesson learned, though, Daniel, is that I hope next time you realize that
> only you can really count on yourself to give the guidance and supervision
> to your sister that you feel appropriate. Clearly, the friend that you
had
> asked to keep an eye wasn't helping a whole lot.
>
This friend who practically finished raising me & got me out on my own & to
the point of owning my own home & taking care of my sister...then goes &
after all that she's helped me with she wants to mess up my sister's life?!

> Lisa
>
>
>
>
>
> > Before you answer right away about how I'm wrong, just take a breath.
You
> > don't have to defend yourself. I'm sure you care about your sister and
> are
> > trying to help her- but you seem to have a need to justify yourself -
here
> and
> > to your sister that is getting in the way of your ability to listen.
Next
> time
> > she talks to you (if you get that chance) try just shutting up and
hearing
> her.
> >
> > Joelle
> > The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> > Augustine
> > Joelle
>

[Joelle]

>When I gave my explinations, she appeared to understand
>them & see that her thinking was wrong & why.

Okay. Well then if your goal was for her to let you know that she knows how
wrong she is, you were successful. Congratulations.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Tiffany]

Daniel <daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom> wrote in message
...
> Here is an update on what has happened so far. I finally got the chance
to
> talk to her last night (she keeps putting that kind of stuff off & I think
> it ended with more of a "to be continued" than anything else). She said
> that she's noticed a change in me since I've got with my girlfriend,
though
> she admitted that what she was seeing wasn't a bad change. She talked
> though as if she wasn't talking but someone else was talking through her &
> she was giving the thoughts they put into her head. She tried to argue
that
> I don't spend as much time at the computer any more. I explained to her
> that the main reason I did before is because I didn't have much else to do
> (wont go into the details of it on this post...but basically my whole
life,
> mainly growing up, I've been forced into having to put all my time &
> attention into something because there wasn't anything/anyone else worth
> being around until more recently with her...& even then it was durring any
> time I wasn't with her). She also said that she thinks my girlfriend has
> changed the way I dress. This because since I've met her, I've found 2
> shirts that have dragon pictures on them, rather than the usual plain
solid
> or stripped that I'd normally wear. I explained to her that she didn't
get
> them for me but simply showed me that they were at the store we happened
to
> be in at the time (& she recognized that I might like them based on many
of
> the video games that I've played). My sister did agree on this after I
> explained it to her (& 2 shirts isn't hardly changing someone's look).
She
> also tried to argue also that I'm neglecting my responsibilities (but
> couldn't give any example...& then finally agreed in more of a
confused/"why
> did I say that"/"what did I even mean by that" that this wasn't true. She
> asked that I remind her to do the dishes or other chores & not yell at her
> for not doing them...but then immediately recognized that not only have I
> not yelled at her for not doing her chores (I simply don't give her as
much
> allowance for it...she gets allowance based on a percentage of how much
she
> does vs. how much I do..& I let her do as much as she wants so she could
get
> double the amount, & she agrees that allowance is payment for work done,
not
> a gift, & doesnt have a problem with the way I do it), but I also have
> reminded her many times & she still didn't get them done (remind her to do
> something mid day Saturday, she's home all day & reminded her sunday too,
> then didnt do it Monday & finally did a last minute half-assed job Tuesday
> morning before leaving). She then brought up the fact that we've not
spent
> much time together lately, however she agreed that I've given her the
chance
> & she's chosen to be gone until late in the evenings & then hide in her
room
> the rest of the night, & where I've had to plan activities for her in
order
> to get her to be with me. She also did recognize that I didn't like
coming
> home after my recent trip & after not having seen her for 8 days (which is
> the longest time she's not seen me in about 1.5 yrs), her first thing she
> asked (I called her, she was at a friend's house about a 10 minute walk
> away) was if she could go over to her boyfriend's house for a few hrs
> (BEFORE seeing me...since he was more important). Her excuse was that she
> was upset that I at first (before knowing the full travel information)
said
> I'd be home about 7-8PM, but then got home a few hrs before that (&
> understood this wasn't a valid arguement since she had a copy of all the
> flight information & could have met me at the airport had she wanted
> to...she even knew exactly when each plain would take off & land...even
the
> ones that didnt concern her...an exact copy of all the info that I had/I
> just printed 2 of them). Another thing she tried to say was that she
heard
> that I've talked to her social worker & told them of her sneaking around &
> about her 19yr old boyfriend & that I didn't want her any more. I finally
> got her to admit where she'd heard that...it was from our friend (who I'd
> known for 5.5 yrs & who has done allot for me & I've done allot for her).
I
> explained that this wasn't true because she knows she doesnt even have a
> social worker, & when I offered to prove it to her by showing her the
phone
> bill (which logs date/time/phone# of incoming & outgoing calls), she
> declined to see the proof that I was telling the trueth & agreed with me
> that I'd not been trying to get her in trouble or get rid of her. But
this
> brings up a further problem. This friend (according to their chat logs)
has
> apparently for the past few months been telling me one thing & telling my
> sister another. She's been supporting me on not liking what has been
going
> on with this guy but then turns around & helps my sister with it & lets
her
> know how much I know about things (I never told her I've been reading the
> logs of my sister & her boyfriend...& only recently read the full log for
my
> sister & her). She even offered & agreed to cover for my sister this past
> week, to have my sister stay with her through the week but actually to let
> her spend the night with her boyfriend (19yr old) (she is not only
> supportive of an innappropriate relationship with someone who has been
> causing my sister some problems, but is willing to lie to me & cover
things
> up for her...this after all that we've done for each other too in the past
> 5.5 yrs.) So now I've got another problem that has been found too (for
> those who don't approve of chat logging & spying in that sense...this is
why
> I did it...now I know who to watch out for as well.) My girlfriend & I
have
> thought of the possibility of jelousy that she's no longer the only
> important person in my life (she did somewhat finish raising me & has
tought
> me allot). Though my girlfriend's sister has suggested the possibility of
> jelousy in that I'm not HER boyfriend. We've both disagreed on this due
to
> the facts that she's had over 5yrs to have decided to go that direction
with
> me had she wanted to, has had more than enough time to have done that
(based
> on the timings & amount of time spent together, plus me living with her
this
> past summer), & had not shown any interest in anything more than a big
> sister type of relationship with me (the reason I'd never thought of that
> possibility myself). My sister acted throughout the conversation as if
she
> was quoting/reading a script when making her various claims about what has
> supposedly been different lately (I say this seeing how easy it was to
> explain the reasoning to her or correct her on her thoughts & how she
> appeared more as if she was looking for proof that those thoughts/ideas
> weren't right). There will probably be more to talk to her about later
(as
> she was somewhat preocupied at the time...but if I try to sit her down
with
> nothing to distract her she ends the conversation very quickly, needing to
> go do something else & wont talk...so thats why I didnt mind her doing
other
> things at the time). I'll post an update later on that & any
> feedback/questions too.
>
> (for those who think I'm making excuses of why I'm not trying certain
things
> & that I'm not really looking for input...if I weren't then why would I be
> taking the time to post/follow up here? For those others who have made
> suggestions & comments that have been good ideas & useful, thank you for
> your time & please continue to contribute.)
>
> --
>
> --
>

Good of you to have that talk and hope you had a good trip. Since you didn't
post anything to the contrary, I am glad to see that your sister didn't get
into any trouble while you were gone.

She is talking about your girlfriend changing your clothes, you are not on
the Pc as much..... how is this relevant to HER behavior anyways? It just
seemed as though your chat was of 2 adults, when in reality, it is one adult
in charge and a child.

As for the 'friend'..... you never really know someone and may never know
her reasons for what she did. Kick her out of your life and be done with it.
Your energies are needed elsewhere.

Have you given any thought to having her sister speak with a professional?

T

[Daniel]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Daniel <daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom> wrote in message
> ...
> > Here is an update on what has happened so far. I finally got the chance
> to
> > talk to her last night (she keeps putting that kind of stuff off & I
think
> > it ended with more of a "to be continued" than anything else). She said
> > that she's noticed a change in me since I've got with my girlfriend,
> though
> > she admitted that what she was seeing wasn't a bad change. She talked
> > though as if she wasn't talking but someone else was talking through her
&
> > she was giving the thoughts they put into her head. She tried to argue
> that
> > I don't spend as much time at the computer any more. I explained to her
> > that the main reason I did before is because I didn't have much else to
do
> > (wont go into the details of it on this post...but basically my whole
> life,
> > mainly growing up, I've been forced into having to put all my time &
> > attention into something because there wasn't anything/anyone else worth
> > being around until more recently with her...& even then it was durring
any
> > time I wasn't with her). She also said that she thinks my girlfriend
has
> > changed the way I dress. This because since I've met her, I've found 2
> > shirts that have dragon pictures on them, rather than the usual plain
> solid
> > or stripped that I'd normally wear. I explained to her that she didn't
> get
> > them for me but simply showed me that they were at the store we happened
> to
> > be in at the time (& she recognized that I might like them based on many
> of
> > the video games that I've played). My sister did agree on this after I
> > explained it to her (& 2 shirts isn't hardly changing someone's look).
> She
> > also tried to argue also that I'm neglecting my responsibilities (but
> > couldn't give any example...& then finally agreed in more of a
> confused/"why
> > did I say that"/"what did I even mean by that" that this wasn't true.
She
> > asked that I remind her to do the dishes or other chores & not yell at
her
> > for not doing them...but then immediately recognized that not only have
I
> > not yelled at her for not doing her chores (I simply don't give her as
> much
> > allowance for it...she gets allowance based on a percentage of how much
> she
> > does vs. how much I do..& I let her do as much as she wants so she could
> get
> > double the amount, & she agrees that allowance is payment for work done,
> not
> > a gift, & doesnt have a problem with the way I do it), but I also have
> > reminded her many times & she still didn't get them done (remind her to
do
> > something mid day Saturday, she's home all day & reminded her sunday
too,
> > then didnt do it Monday & finally did a last minute half-assed job
Tuesday
> > morning before leaving). She then brought up the fact that we've not
> spent
> > much time together lately, however she agreed that I've given her the
> chance
> > & she's chosen to be gone until late in the evenings & then hide in her
> room
> > the rest of the night, & where I've had to plan activities for her in
> order
> > to get her to be with me. She also did recognize that I didn't like
> coming
> > home after my recent trip & after not having seen her for 8 days (which
is
> > the longest time she's not seen me in about 1.5 yrs), her first thing
she
> > asked (I called her, she was at a friend's house about a 10 minute walk
> > away) was if she could go over to her boyfriend's house for a few hrs
> > (BEFORE seeing me...since he was more important). Her excuse was that
she
> > was upset that I at first (before knowing the full travel information)
> said
> > I'd be home about 7-8PM, but then got home a few hrs before that (&
> > understood this wasn't a valid arguement since she had a copy of all the
> > flight information & could have met me at the airport had she wanted
> > to...she even knew exactly when each plain would take off & land...even
> the
> > ones that didnt concern her...an exact copy of all the info that I had/I
> > just printed 2 of them). Another thing she tried to say was that she
> heard
> > that I've talked to her social worker & told them of her sneaking around
&
> > about her 19yr old boyfriend & that I didn't want her any more. I
finally
> > got her to admit where she'd heard that...it was from our friend (who
I'd
> > known for 5.5 yrs & who has done allot for me & I've done allot for
her).
> I
> > explained that this wasn't true because she knows she doesnt even have a
> > social worker, & when I offered to prove it to her by showing her the
> phone
> > bill (which logs date/time/phone# of incoming & outgoing calls), she
> > declined to see the proof that I was telling the trueth & agreed with me
> > that I'd not been trying to get her in trouble or get rid of her. But
> this
> > brings up a further problem. This friend (according to their chat logs)
> has
> > apparently for the past few months been telling me one thing & telling
my
> > sister another. She's been supporting me on not liking what has been
> going
> > on with this guy but then turns around & helps my sister with it & lets
> her
> > know how much I know about things (I never told her I've been reading
the
> > logs of my sister & her boyfriend...& only recently read the full log
for
> my
> > sister & her). She even offered & agreed to cover for my sister this
past
> > week, to have my sister stay with her through the week but actually to
let
> > her spend the night with her boyfriend (19yr old) (she is not only
> > supportive of an innappropriate relationship with someone who has been
> > causing my sister some problems, but is willing to lie to me & cover
> things
> > up for her...this after all that we've done for each other too in the
past
> > 5.5 yrs.) So now I've got another problem that has been found too (for
> > those who don't approve of chat logging & spying in that sense...this is
> why
> > I did it...now I know who to watch out for as well.) My girlfriend & I
> have
> > thought of the possibility of jelousy that she's no longer the only
> > important person in my life (she did somewhat finish raising me & has
> tought
> > me allot). Though my girlfriend's sister has suggested the possibility
of
> > jelousy in that I'm not HER boyfriend. We've both disagreed on this due
> to
> > the facts that she's had over 5yrs to have decided to go that direction
> with
> > me had she wanted to, has had more than enough time to have done that
> (based
> > on the timings & amount of time spent together, plus me living with her
> this
> > past summer), & had not shown any interest in anything more than a big
> > sister type of relationship with me (the reason I'd never thought of
that
> > possibility myself). My sister acted throughout the conversation as if
> she
> > was quoting/reading a script when making her various claims about what
has
> > supposedly been different lately (I say this seeing how easy it was to
> > explain the reasoning to her or correct her on her thoughts & how she
> > appeared more as if she was looking for proof that those thoughts/ideas
> > weren't right). There will probably be more to talk to her about later
> (as
> > she was somewhat preocupied at the time...but if I try to sit her down
> with
> > nothing to distract her she ends the conversation very quickly, needing
to
> > go do something else & wont talk...so thats why I didnt mind her doing
> other
> > things at the time). I'll post an update later on that & any
> > feedback/questions too.
> >
> > (for those who think I'm making excuses of why I'm not trying certain
> things
> > & that I'm not really looking for input...if I weren't then why would I
be
> > taking the time to post/follow up here? For those others who have made
> > suggestions & comments that have been good ideas & useful, thank you for
> > your time & please continue to contribute.)
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> >
>
> Good of you to have that talk and hope you had a good trip. Since you
didn't
> post anything to the contrary, I am glad to see that your sister didn't
get
> into any trouble while you were gone.
>
> She is talking about your girlfriend changing your clothes, you are not on
> the Pc as much..... how is this relevant to HER behavior anyways? It just
> seemed as though your chat was of 2 adults, when in reality, it is one
adult
> in charge and a child.
>
I let my sister lead the conversation & I just turned it in the
directions/points needed for the time. SHE is the one who brought that
up...she acted as if she had a problem with my girlfriend & was giving this
as arguements for her belief (though they were improper & invalid ones, as I
explained to her). She had tried to say that since I've got with my
girlfriend that is the reason she started this relationship with this
guy...though she failed to remember/acknowledge that she started this thing
of being gone at every chance long before then, started hanging out with the
bad crowd before then, got into trouble before then, & also that we have
tried to include her as much as possible (because when she's with us she's
not with him or with any other form of trouble + she is spending time with
us/me), & that she's seen me leave my girlfriend alone as long as needed to
talk to her when she asked or needed it. I think the reason she brought her
up was either because it was pre-programmed into her head (the jelousy of
the other friend), or she was just looking for an easy excuse/blame game &
needed to be reminded/showed that this was NOT a valid excuse & why it
wasn't. She may have acknowledged the relationship between him & her after
we got together, but we've made sure not to give her any reason to use us as
an excuse to be this way. Also a 3rd possible reason she brought my
girlfriend into this was because she's used to having some problem
(legitimate one, usually the guy being a total a**hole/drunk/druggie/women
beater/loser) with EVERY one of my mom's boyfriends (& may be repeating the
same situation?).

> As for the 'friend'..... you never really know someone and may never know
> her reasons for what she did. Kick her out of your life and be done with
it.
> Your energies are needed elsewhere.
>
I'll also add that she (this person) is immature at times & is also on
medication for various mental problems (including depression)...maybe that
is playing a part here? She sees my sister as wanting to play & the
immaturity kicks in & she decides that since playing is more fun then to
allow it & when she talks to me & I talk about the problems she is anadult &
realizes the situation & sides with me for that reason???

> Have you given any thought to having her sister speak with a professional?
>
Yes, as soon as we finally get her medical stuff worked out (she's on state
insurance...awaiting her medical card now...should get in another 2 weeks or
so).

BTW: I've never been to a councelor/psychiatrist like this before (I went
when I was a kid for about an 8yr time span, but that was really messed up &
didnt help at all, since the lady would then report anything I said & I'd
get introuble for it & it would end up making things worse for me). How
would my interaction in this be? What would be the best way to have myself
involved in this (though I'd like to know what is going on, I don't want to
repeat what happened with me, & even though I wont punnish her for anything
she says, if I do know what she says or the general idea of it, I'd use it
in the same way as the chat logs & keylogging...for
info/warning/understanding purposes anyway...I wont use it in any way to
cause distrust or anything like that)?
> T
>
>

[Tiffany]

Daniel <daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom> wrote in message
...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Daniel <daniel_h_wATyyahooDOTccom> wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> >
> > Good of you to have that talk and hope you had a good trip. Since you
> didn't
> > post anything to the contrary, I am glad to see that your sister didn't
> get
> > into any trouble while you were gone.
> >
> > She is talking about your girlfriend changing your clothes, you are not
on
> > the Pc as much..... how is this relevant to HER behavior anyways? It
just
> > seemed as though your chat was of 2 adults, when in reality, it is one
> adult
> > in charge and a child.
> >
> I let my sister lead the conversation & I just turned it in the
> directions/points needed for the time. SHE is the one who brought that
> up...she acted as if she had a problem with my girlfriend & was giving
this
> as arguements for her belief (though they were improper & invalid ones, as
I
> explained to her). She had tried to say that since I've got with my
> girlfriend that is the reason she started this relationship with this
> guy...though she failed to remember/acknowledge that she started this
thing
> of being gone at every chance long before then, started hanging out with
the
> bad crowd before then, got into trouble before then, & also that we have
> tried to include her as much as possible (because when she's with us she's
> not with him or with any other form of trouble + she is spending time with
> us/me), & that she's seen me leave my girlfriend alone as long as needed
to
> talk to her when she asked or needed it. I think the reason she brought
her
> up was either because it was pre-programmed into her head (the jelousy of
> the other friend), or she was just looking for an easy excuse/blame game &
> needed to be reminded/showed that this was NOT a valid excuse & why it
> wasn't. She may have acknowledged the relationship between him & her
after
> we got together, but we've made sure not to give her any reason to use us
as
> an excuse to be this way. Also a 3rd possible reason she brought my
> girlfriend into this was because she's used to having some problem
> (legitimate one, usually the guy being a total a**hole/drunk/druggie/women
> beater/loser) with EVERY one of my mom's boyfriends (& may be repeating
the
> same situation?).
>
> > As for the 'friend'..... you never really know someone and may never
know
> > her reasons for what she did. Kick her out of your life and be done with
> it.
> > Your energies are needed elsewhere.
> >
> I'll also add that she (this person) is immature at times & is also on
> medication for various mental problems (including depression)...maybe that
> is playing a part here? She sees my sister as wanting to play & the
> immaturity kicks in & she decides that since playing is more fun then to
> allow it & when she talks to me & I talk about the problems she is anadult
&
> realizes the situation & sides with me for that reason???

Yeah, sounds like she has issues. Mental issues could be at play here.
Regardless, she isn't helping the situation.
>
> > Have you given any thought to having her sister speak with a
professional?
> >
> Yes, as soon as we finally get her medical stuff worked out (she's on
state
> insurance...awaiting her medical card now...should get in another 2 weeks
or
> so).
>
> BTW: I've never been to a councelor/psychiatrist like this before (I went
> when I was a kid for about an 8yr time span, but that was really messed up
&
> didnt help at all, since the lady would then report anything I said & I'd
> get introuble for it & it would end up making things worse for me). How
> would my interaction in this be? What would be the best way to have myself
> involved in this (though I'd like to know what is going on, I don't want
to
> repeat what happened with me, & even though I wont punnish her for
anything
> she says, if I do know what she says or the general idea of it, I'd use it
> in the same way as the chat logs & keylogging...for
> info/warning/understanding purposes anyway...I wont use it in any way to
> cause distrust or anything like that)?
> > T
> >

When you call and make an appointment for your sister, they will have you
come in also. The counselor will probably talk to you first, alone. Then
sister will be brought in. What the 2 talk about is confidential and unless
something is happening that could or is harming sister, you won't be told
what she says. The counselor SHOULD keep you updated though on progress and
the over all feel of the sessions. The counselor may have sessions that
include both of you, maybe even other family members at times. If sister
isn't comfortable with the first person you see, try others. It would be
better to have some sort of referral, someone with a good reputation.

Tiff

[Daniel]

> Yeah, sounds like she has issues. Mental issues could be at play here.
> Regardless, she isn't helping the situation.

Thats more what we expected...her own problems to be causing my sister (&
myself) problems.

> When you call and make an appointment for your sister, they will have you
> come in also. The counselor will probably talk to you first, alone. Then
> sister will be brought in. What the 2 talk about is confidential and
unless
> something is happening that could or is harming sister, you won't be told
> what she says. The counselor SHOULD keep you updated though on progress
and
> the over all feel of the sessions. The counselor may have sessions that
> include both of you, maybe even other family members at times. If sister
> isn't comfortable with the first person you see, try others. It would be
> better to have some sort of referral, someone with a good reputation.
>
OK...thats what I was hoping for. I want to be able to talk to them first
to let them know about her background & whats going on now so they'll be
able to figure out where to work without having to wait for her to say
things herself (they'll know what sort of questions to ask to get her to
talk about a specific thing rather than having to wait for her to talk about
it on her own & hope she's giving all the info). So when you say that they
will only inform me of details of something if it could or is harming her,
you're meaning (obviously if something is currently happening that I need to
be made aware of) if she is planning on doing something such as running away
& gives them the details of it then I'll be told? Although I did see a
councelor myself for 8 yrs, I can't say for sure how one would normally
opperate. I quickly learned that anything I said (about how I felt or how I
was being treated at home or anything like that) could come back to haunt me
later. Like I said, even if I'm told something I'll only use the
information if needed & will either try to find a way to have gotten the
knowledge elsewhere (so she doesn't quit telling them the trueth) or just
happen to plan something against it (if she is planning on doing something
at a specific time, I could have a last minute change of plans that requires
her to be somewhere else at that time). This is exactly how I use the chat
logs.

[Tiffany]

Daniel <daniel_h_wATyahooDOTcom> wrote in message
...
> > Yeah, sounds like she has issues. Mental issues could be at play here.
> > Regardless, she isn't helping the situation.
>
> Thats more what we expected...her own problems to be causing my sister (&
> myself) problems.
>
> > When you call and make an appointment for your sister, they will have
you
> > come in also. The counselor will probably talk to you first, alone. Then
> > sister will be brought in. What the 2 talk about is confidential and
> unless
> > something is happening that could or is harming sister, you won't be
told
> > what she says. The counselor SHOULD keep you updated though on progress
> and
> > the over all feel of the sessions. The counselor may have sessions that
> > include both of you, maybe even other family members at times. If sister
> > isn't comfortable with the first person you see, try others. It would be
> > better to have some sort of referral, someone with a good reputation.
> >
> OK...thats what I was hoping for. I want to be able to talk to them first
> to let them know about her background & whats going on now so they'll be
> able to figure out where to work without having to wait for her to say
> things herself (they'll know what sort of questions to ask to get her to
> talk about a specific thing rather than having to wait for her to talk
about
> it on her own & hope she's giving all the info). So when you say that
they
> will only inform me of details of something if it could or is harming her,
> you're meaning (obviously if something is currently happening that I need
to
> be made aware of) if she is planning on doing something such as running
away
> & gives them the details of it then I'll be told? Although I did see a
> councelor myself for 8 yrs, I can't say for sure how one would normally
> opperate. I quickly learned that anything I said (about how I felt or how
I
> was being treated at home or anything like that) could come back to haunt
me
> later. Like I said, even if I'm told something I'll only use the
> information if needed & will either try to find a way to have gotten the
> knowledge elsewhere (so she doesn't quit telling them the trueth) or just
> happen to plan something against it (if she is planning on doing something
> at a specific time, I could have a last minute change of plans that
requires
> her to be somewhere else at that time). This is exactly how I use the
chat
> logs.
>
>

Even in my profession, I have to uphold total confidentiality. When I see
kids, the parents always want to know what went on. Aside from saying the
session went well, ect. I never indulge any conversation that might have
taken place. And I know from taking my daughter to a physiatrist, she told
me should would not betray my daughters trust unless it was life
threatening.... for instance, my daughter was talking of suicide or there
was a form of abuse going on. Now, had my daughter talked to her about
having sex or doing drugs, I don't know if she would have told me herself. I
believe her approach would have been to eventually have my daughter tell me
herself.

I think the idea would be to have your sister get things off her chest and
learn some skills for making good decisions in life. Our kids don't always
listen to use but may listen to some one else. There is where a professional
comes in.

T

[xkatx]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:12:18 -0600, "Daniel" <daniel_h_wATyahooDOTcom>
> > So when you say that they
> >will only inform me of details of something if it could or is harming
her,
> >you're meaning (obviously if something is currently happening that I need
to
> >be made aware of) if she is planning on doing
>
> Actually... that would be unethical. It isn't done. A therapist could
> have his/her license yanked for it.
>
> 'Kate
>


Yeah, patient confidentiality is something that EVERY professional
practices, otherwise they wouldn't be holding their job very long at all.
That might be a good reason, if this is something you fear (Daniel), to get
a reference as to someone who has an even better than good reputation.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

[V]

<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:12:18 -0600, "Daniel" <daniel_h_wATyahooDOTcom>
> > So when you say that they
> >will only inform me of details of something if it could or is harming her,
> >you're meaning (obviously if something is currently happening that I need
to
> >be made aware of) if she is planning on doing
>
> Actually... that would be unethical. It isn't done. A therapist could
> have his/her license yanked for it.
>
> 'Kate
>

This is a good topic of discussion. I think that in certain situations,
criminal acts can be reported if they are going to do it. I know that no one
is privy to the information a victim tells me unless they are dead. What about
priests etc?
V

[sg34]

A therapist I went to called the Dept. of Social Services to report abuse.
By law, the therapist had to, and pointed that out to me. But, this is in
Massachusetts. I don't know about the laws in other states.


<'Kate> wrote in message ...
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:15:53 GMT, "V" >
> >
> ><'Kate> wrote in message
...
> >> On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:12:18 -0600, "Daniel" <daniel_h_wATyahooDOTcom>
> >> > So when you say that they
> >> >will only inform me of details of something if it could or is harming
her,
> >> >you're meaning (obviously if something is currently happening that I
need
> >to
> >> >be made aware of) if she is planning on doing
> >>
> >> Actually... that would be unethical. It isn't done. A therapist could
> >> have his/her license yanked for it.
> >>
> >> 'Kate
> >>
> >
> >This is a good topic of discussion. I think that in certain situations,
> >criminal acts can be reported if they are going to do it. I know that no
one
> >is privy to the information a victim tells me unless they are dead. What
about
> >priests etc?
> >V
>
> The therapist's responsibility is to the patient. If the patient is a
> "danger to self or others" there's a procedure to follow.
>
> 'Kate
>

[QuietDavid]

Hi Joelle

Hang in there, because YOU have the right idea - so many parents who "have a
talk" with their kids (or their partner) in reality just have a "this is why I
am right and you are wrong" session that only serves to let their child know
that the parent is really only interested in justifying their own view.

As you so rightly point out, while the child may "agree" with the parent during
one of these sessions, it is generally a 'forced' agreement where disagreeing
is labled as stupid or imature or 'not loving' the parent etc and agreement
with the parent is seen as 'coming to ones senses' or such.

What these sessions actually accomplish is to teach the child to shut up and
keep their ideas to themselves.

David



Joelle wrote:

> >When I gave my explinations, she appeared to understand
> >them & see that her thinking was wrong & why.
>
> Okay. Well then if your goal was for her to let you know that she knows how
> wrong she is, you were successful. Congratulations.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle