PDA

View Full Version : Re: Retired Father


teachrmama
August 3rd 03, 07:53 PM
How old are you, Jackie? And what state are you talking about? Does your
mother have a copy of the support order that you can read?

"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
> Hello,
>
> I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the
> divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would be
> still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on a
> 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep on
> working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of
his
> income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as long
as
> I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already
> over 18)?!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jackie
>
>

gini52
August 3rd 03, 09:29 PM
"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
> Hello,
>
> I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the
> divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would be
> still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on a
> 60% course load per term)?!

As it stands right now, if he were to keep on
> working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of
his
> income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as long
as
> I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already
> over 18)?!
==
Let's see-Your dad is 67--that means he has a life expectancy of less than
10 years.
Now, why would you expect your father to support you as an adult?
If you would expect your father to support you, why not your mother? Hey,
why don't
you move in with a friend and sue both of them? Actually,
you might just have to get a job like the students from intact families and
states
that require adult children to support themselves (though it appears you
have pretty
much ruled out getting a job). Who's going to foot your bill when your
dad is dead?
Sheesh! (Ah...I see you are in Canada. Everything applies but the legal
stuff)
==
==
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jackie
>
>

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 07:17 AM
"Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
...
> Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls? You really
expect
> a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month.

I have a friend being forced to pay more child support than he actually
makes. Since the courts cannot take more than 50% of his income due to the
'fair credit' federal laws, they put the rest on arrears and tack on a 12%?
interest rate so as to 'encourage' him to pay it off. Divorce appears to be
a pretty good business for most women. Excellent lifestyle, good income. I
spoke with one woman once who specifically told me that she intentionally
looks for men to get impregnated by so that she can end up collecting child
support from them.

> Living with your parents is
> one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not matter
how
> old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
courts)
>
> Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father. I would
> not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime which at
> that age could be right around the corner. That maybe the only way to
teach
> you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.
>
> "Jackie" > wrote in message
> . ca...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the
> > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
be
> > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on
a
> > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
on
> > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of
> his
> > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
long
> as
> > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already
> > over 18)?!
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Jackie
> >
> >
>
>

Jackie
August 4th 03, 10:40 AM
Let me tell you guys a few things.

1. My father's basically got it made... he makes over $90K/year, and he's
the one who wants the divorce from my mother.
2. He's told me on multiple occasions that he is going to make it as
difficult as possible for me to NOT be able to go to school (for one,
because of his income, I can't get a student loan, and he's not willing to
pay for my education).
3. He's verbally abusive and tells me that he wishes he never had me and
that I am stupid, just like my mother, and how, if we weren't in Canada, he
would have given me away when I was born.

So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for some
advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I see
you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway.


"Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
...
> Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls? You really
expect
> a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month. Living with your parents
is
> one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not matter
how
> old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
courts)
>
> Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father. I would
> not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime which at
> that age could be right around the corner. That maybe the only way to
teach
> you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.
>
> "Jackie" > wrote in message
> . ca...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the
> > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
be
> > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on
a
> > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
on
> > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of
> his
> > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
long
> as
> > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already
> > over 18)?!
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Jackie
> >
> >
>
>

Jackie
August 4th 03, 10:47 AM
"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
arthlink.net...
>
> "Jackie" > wrote in message
> . ca...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the
> > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
be
> > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on
a
> > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
on
> > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of
> his
> > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
long
> as
> > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already
> > over 18)?!
>
> Here's an answer that doesn't blast you for asking a reasonable question.
>
> Your state law and case law will drive how your situation is handled. For
> instance, in my state there is a child attending school statute that
extends
> CS for minor children until age 21 if they continually attend some form of
> post-secondary education, stay enrolled at least 50% of the time, maintain
> at least a "C" average, and comply with state requirements to file grades,
> confirmations of enrollment, and details of course of study.
>
> In my state, the case law says child attending school support is an
> extension of CS for minor children so the statute cannot be used to
> establish an order for an adult child who is already 18 years of age when
> their parents divorce.
>
> There is an advantage for you as a student that you may not have realized
> yet. After your parents are divorced the FFSA input you file will be
based
> on the parent's income where you live 50+% of the time. That means your
> expected family contribution will go down allowing you to qualify for
loans
> and grants at a lower income level than your parent's combined income. If
> you can work it out with your parents, you can use the lower income
earners
> financial data for setting the EFC and then get financial support from
both
> parents under the radar screen of how the government manages FFSA. It's
> actually an advantage for you because there will be no CS to add to your
> FFSA input as income for your and your 50+% parent.
>

Geez... an actual answer... thank you so much... I think most people don't
realize that it's nearly impossible to get a student loan when both of your
parents make a lot of money... and I AM working right now, but, with my full
time course load, I don't like to work while I'm actually in classes... so,
that makes me slightly broke... I'm actually from Canada... so all of that
"state by state" stuff won't make a difference in my case, but I will ask
the lawyer about it... I did also apply for a student loan... but I think
they are just going to be providing me with only my tuition, and not my
living expenses... so, I guess we'll see!

But, again... thanks for the answer, and not jumping to conclusions! :)

Jackie
August 4th 03, 10:49 AM
I'm 21, and in Canada... and I'm starting to realize that probably 90% of
you are either 1. Useless, or 2. In the USA... so, hopefully you're only
from the second category!
But, if you are, you won't be able to give me much advice anyway... I just
didn't want to have to pay the lawyer to get that answer... but it looks
like I'll have to!

"teachrmama" > wrote in message
...
> How old are you, Jackie? And what state are you talking about? Does your
> mother have a copy of the support order that you can read?
>
> "Jackie" > wrote in message
> . ca...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the
> > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
be
> > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on
a
> > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
on
> > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of
> his
> > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
long
> as
> > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already
> > over 18)?!
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Jackie
> >
> >
>
>

Jackie
August 4th 03, 10:53 AM
"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jackie" > wrote in message
> . ca...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the
> > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
be
> > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on
a
> > 60% course load per term)?!
>
> As it stands right now, if he were to keep on
> > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of
> his
> > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
long
> as
> > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already
> > over 18)?!
> ==
> Let's see-Your dad is 67--that means he has a life expectancy of less than
> 10 years.
> Now, why would you expect your father to support you as an adult?

Because, as long as I am a full time student, I am a dependent child in the
eyes of the law.

> If you would expect your father to support you, why not your mother?

Because she doesn't make enough money to support even herself.

Hey,
> why don't
> you move in with a friend and sue both of them?

That's a terrible comparison, unless these friends give birth to me somehow,
and then tell me after 21 years that they are not willing to support me in a
time when they ought to.

Actually,
> you might just have to get a job like the students from intact families
and
> states
> that require adult children to support themselves (though it appears you
> have pretty
> much ruled out getting a job).

I'm working right now, but I'm not going to sacrifice my grades for work
(i.e. I will not work when I'm in school... I've tried it, and i can't do
it.

Who's going to foot your bill when your
> dad is dead?

This is my last year of school... so, I suppose no one will.

> Sheesh! (Ah...I see you are in Canada. Everything applies but the legal
> stuff)
I don't know what that's supposed to mean... but I'm assuming it's useless
blather from someone with nothing better to do...

> ==
> ==
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Jackie
> >
> >
>
>

Jackie
August 4th 03, 10:55 AM
"Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
...
> Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls?

I would say I've got no balls... from a physiological standpoint.

You really expect
> a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month.

Well, a 67 year old man who brought me to this earth, and who makes
$90K/year... yep.

Living with your parents is
> one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not matter
how
> old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
courts)

Nope, I'm expecting that kind of money as a student.

> Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father.

Why would I?! As I said in another post, he's one of the most abusive people
I know.

I would
> not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime which at
> that age could be right around the corner.

He already told me that he's going to be adopting other children, and that
he is going to support them through school, because he doesn't want to give
me any of his money. (i.e. he would do anything to make it more difficult
for me to go to school... and he's willing to give the money out to ANYONE
but his own children, and the mother of his children)... so, think what you
want... you don't matter anyway.

That maybe the only way to teach
> you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.

Yep, you're obviously right.

> "Jackie" > wrote in message
> . ca...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the
> > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
be
> > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on
a
> > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
on
> > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of
> his
> > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
long
> as
> > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already
> > over 18)?!
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Jackie
> >
> >
>
>

glow
August 4th 03, 11:08 AM
"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
>
> "gini52" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > . ca...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
the
> > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
> be
> > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based
on
> a
> > > 60% course load per term)?!
> >
> > As it stands right now, if he were to keep on
> > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
of
> > his
> > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> long
> > as
> > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
already
> > > over 18)?!
> > ==
> > Let's see-Your dad is 67--that means he has a life expectancy of less
than
> > 10 years.
> > Now, why would you expect your father to support you as an adult?
>
> Because, as long as I am a full time student, I am a dependent child in
the
> eyes of the law.
>
> > If you would expect your father to support you, why not your mother?
>
> Because she doesn't make enough money to support even herself.
>
> Hey,
> > why don't
> > you move in with a friend and sue both of them?
>
> That's a terrible comparison, unless these friends give birth to me
somehow,
> and then tell me after 21 years that they are not willing to support me in
a
> time when they ought to.

You fool moving in with someone else reduces the overall living expenses
because they are shared between the two of you is actually just as cheap to
make a meal for two as for one. It also provides a different aspect in
regards to your parents supporting you.


>
> Actually,
> > you might just have to get a job like the students from intact families
> and
> > states
> > that require adult children to support themselves (though it appears you
> > have pretty
> > much ruled out getting a job).
>
> I'm working right now, but I'm not going to sacrifice my grades for work
> (i.e. I will not work when I'm in school... I've tried it, and i can't do
> it.
>
> Who's going to foot your bill when your
> > dad is dead?
>
> This is my last year of school... so, I suppose no one will.
>
> > Sheesh! (Ah...I see you are in Canada. Everything applies but the legal
> > stuff)
> I don't know what that's supposed to mean... but I'm assuming it's useless
> blather from someone with nothing better to do...
>
> > ==
> > ==
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Jackie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

glow
August 4th 03, 11:13 AM
"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
> I'm 21, and in Canada... and I'm starting to realize that probably 90% of
> you are either 1. Useless, or 2. In the USA... so, hopefully you're only
> from the second category!
> But, if you are, you won't be able to give me much advice anyway... I just
> didn't want to have to pay the lawyer to get that answer... but it looks
> like I'll have to!

Save your money it is obvious that you need an education. you havn't yet
learnt that someone of the age of 21 should be capable of supporting
themselves. you are capable of working. Go out and get a job preferrably in
your field of study. this will help you to understand the practical
application of your study and maybe even give credits towards your course.
as well as enabling you to actually support yourself like a capable person
should.

Rule in my parents house they would support us til the end of highschool
which here is Year twelve in private schools. If we wanted to go to
University we pay for it ourselves. My parents allowed me to live with them
but I had to pay board and I had to pay for my higher education
myself....Text books, supplies and course fees.

>
> "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> ...
> > How old are you, Jackie? And what state are you talking about? Does
your
> > mother have a copy of the support order that you can read?
> >
> > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > . ca...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
the
> > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
> be
> > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based
on
> a
> > > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
> on
> > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
of
> > his
> > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> long
> > as
> > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
already
> > > over 18)?!
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Jackie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

glow
August 4th 03, 11:24 AM
"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
> Honestly, I don't want more than what is rightfully mine... he's the one
who
> brought me to this earth, and if he doesn't want to have to support me by
> having me live with him anymore, then I think he should have to pay me
when
> I'm in school.

What do you call the 21 years? He has supported you. You are now a grown
woman.

>
> He and my mother were married for 41 years, and other than having an
affair
> and physically beating her, he did basically everything else (e.g. hitting
> me and my brother and sister)... so, i don't think it's fair that you guys
> paint him to be an angel or anything like that.

Ahhhhhhh so that explains it you want revenge you want to make his life hard
for what he did to you. Why not have him charged for the assaults if he hit
you (That's what my mother did). Ah no of course not because him going to
prison he wouldn't be bringing
in the money any more that's right.

>
> Yes, he's 67, but he makes over $90K/year, and he's on a one year
> contract... but I just think that if he knew he had to give me money he
> would quit his job... and I just wanted to know whether he'd have to give
me
> money when he's on his (HUGE) pension... but I guess you guys won't give
me
> the answer, so that's fine.

Honestly its about time he retired let the guy rest he already financially
supported his children let him go if he was such an abusive person be
thankful he has gone. Now you be a woman and learn to stand on your own two
feet.

>
> "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> > "Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls? You really
> > expect
> > > a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month.
> >
> > I have a friend being forced to pay more child support than he actually
> > makes. Since the courts cannot take more than 50% of his income due to
> the
> > 'fair credit' federal laws, they put the rest on arrears and tack on a
> 12%?
> > interest rate so as to 'encourage' him to pay it off. Divorce appears
to
> be
> > a pretty good business for most women. Excellent lifestyle, good
income.
> I
> > spoke with one woman once who specifically told me that she
intentionally
> > looks for men to get impregnated by so that she can end up collecting
> child
> > support from them.
> >
> > > Living with your parents is
> > > one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not
matter
> > how
> > > old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
> > courts)
> > >
> > > Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father. I
> would
> > > not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime
which
> at
> > > that age could be right around the corner. That maybe the only way to
> > teach
> > > you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.
> > >
> > > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > > . ca...
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in
the
> > > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
> the
> > > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire)
would
> > be
> > > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student
(based
> on
> > a
> > > > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to
keep
> > on
> > > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
> of
> > > his
> > > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> > long
> > > as
> > > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
> already
> > > > over 18)?!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > >
> > > > Jackie
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

glow
August 4th 03, 11:28 AM
Girl before you commence your study my suggestion to you is go and receive
some psychiatric help you obviously have some serious issues in regards to
your father. You will not cope in Uni unless you have dealt with these
problems why don't you instead have him charged for the abuse and sue him
for the costs of your treatment it will do you allot more good than chasing
him for money you cannot collect as a grown woman.


"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
>
> "Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
> ...
> > Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls?
>
> I would say I've got no balls... from a physiological standpoint.
>
> You really expect
> > a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month.
>
> Well, a 67 year old man who brought me to this earth, and who makes
> $90K/year... yep.
>
> Living with your parents is
> > one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not matter
> how
> > old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
> courts)
>
> Nope, I'm expecting that kind of money as a student.
>
> > Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father.
>
> Why would I?! As I said in another post, he's one of the most abusive
people
> I know.
>
> I would
> > not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime which
at
> > that age could be right around the corner.
>
> He already told me that he's going to be adopting other children, and that
> he is going to support them through school, because he doesn't want to
give
> me any of his money. (i.e. he would do anything to make it more difficult
> for me to go to school... and he's willing to give the money out to ANYONE
> but his own children, and the mother of his children)... so, think what
you
> want... you don't matter anyway.
>
> That maybe the only way to teach
> > you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.
>
> Yep, you're obviously right.
>
> > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > . ca...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
the
> > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
> be
> > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based
on
> a
> > > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
> on
> > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
of
> > his
> > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> long
> > as
> > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
already
> > > over 18)?!
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Jackie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Paul Fritz
August 4th 03, 12:15 PM
College is not an entitlement......you are an adult.....try to start acting
like one.
If you cannot afford the college of you choice full time.....go part time,
or go to a cheaper college, trade school etc.

Again.....college is NOT AN ENTITLEMENT.

"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
> "Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You are an ADULT.......start supporting yourself.
>
> I am a STUDENT... that's easier said than done... Working in the summer
> earned me under $4000 and I can't apply for a student loan because my
father
> makes too much money and doesn't want to give me any of it... so any other
> bright solutions?!
>
> > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > . ca...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
the
> > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
> be
> > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based
on
> a
> > > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
> on
> > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
of
> > his
> > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> long
> > as
> > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
already
> > > over 18)?!
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Jackie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Paul Fritz
August 4th 03, 12:19 PM
"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
>
> "gini52" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > . ca...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
the
> > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
> be
> > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based
on
> a
> > > 60% course load per term)?!
> >
> > As it stands right now, if he were to keep on
> > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
of
> > his
> > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> long
> > as
> > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
already
> > > over 18)?!
> > ==
> > Let's see-Your dad is 67--that means he has a life expectancy of less
than
> > 10 years.
> > Now, why would you expect your father to support you as an adult?
>
> Because, as long as I am a full time student, I am a dependent child in
the
> eyes of the law.

Only WRT to taxes. You cannot run and hide behind mommy if you sign a
contract.

>
> > If you would expect your father to support you, why not your mother?
>
> Because she doesn't make enough money to support even herself.

Why is that not a surprise.......must be where you learned the entitlement
mentality

>
> Hey,
> > why don't
> > you move in with a friend and sue both of them?
>
> That's a terrible comparison, unless these friends give birth to me
somehow,
> and then tell me after 21 years that they are not willing to support me in
a
> time when they ought to.

Sorry miss lame adult......college is not an entitlement, GET A JOB, GET A
LIFE, stop living off the backs of others.


>
> Actually,
> > you might just have to get a job like the students from intact families
> and
> > states
> > that require adult children to support themselves (though it appears you
> > have pretty
> > much ruled out getting a job).
>
> I'm working right now, but I'm not going to sacrifice my grades for work
> (i.e. I will not work when I'm in school... I've tried it, and i can't do
> it.

Then get a job and support yourself like real adults.

>
> Who's going to foot your bill when your
> > dad is dead?
>
> This is my last year of school... so, I suppose no one will.
>
> > Sheesh! (Ah...I see you are in Canada. Everything applies but the legal
> > stuff)
> I don't know what that's supposed to mean... but I'm assuming it's useless
> blather from someone with nothing better to do...
>
> > ==
> > ==
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Jackie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Mel Gamble
August 4th 03, 01:39 PM
Hmmm.....

>"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Jackie" > wrote in message
>> . ca...
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
>> > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once the
>> > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
>be
>> > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based on
>a
>> > 60% course load per term)?!
>>
>> As it stands right now, if he were to keep on
>> > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because of
>> his
>> > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
>long
>> as
>> > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm already
>> > over 18)?!
>> ==
>> Let's see-Your dad is 67--that means he has a life expectancy of less than
>> 10 years.
>> Now, why would you expect your father to support you as an adult?
>
>Because, as long as I am a full time student, I am a dependent child in the
>eyes of the law.
>
>> If you would expect your father to support you, why not your mother?
>
>Because she doesn't make enough money to support even herself.
>
>Hey,
>> why don't
>> you move in with a friend and sue both of them?
>
>That's a terrible comparison, unless these friends give birth to me somehow,
>and then tell me after 21 years that they are not willing to support me in a
>time when they ought to.
>
>Actually,
>> you might just have to get a job like the students from intact families
>and
>> states
>> that require adult children to support themselves (though it appears you
>> have pretty
>> much ruled out getting a job).
>
>I'm working right now, but I'm not going to sacrifice my grades for work
>(i.e. I will not work when I'm in school... I've tried it, and i can't do
>it.
>
> Who's going to foot your bill when your
>> dad is dead?
>
>This is my last year of school... so, I suppose no one will.
>
>> Sheesh! (Ah...I see you are in Canada. Everything applies but the legal
>> stuff)
>I don't know what that's supposed to mean... but I'm assuming it's useless
>blather from someone with nothing better to do...

..... cheeky bitch, ain't she? This is why Mexicans sneak across their northern
border into the U.S., but you never see Americans sneaking across their
northern border - nothin' but empty space up there....

Mel Gamble

>> ==
>> ==
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> >
>> > Jackie

Mel Gamble
August 4th 03, 01:44 PM
You got your answers - you're just ****ed 'cause they're not the ones you
wanted to hear....TS.

Mel Gamble

>Honestly, I don't want more than what is rightfully mine... he's the one who
>brought me to this earth, and if he doesn't want to have to support me by
>having me live with him anymore, then I think he should have to pay me when
>I'm in school.
>
>He and my mother were married for 41 years, and other than having an affair
>and physically beating her, he did basically everything else (e.g. hitting
>me and my brother and sister)... so, i don't think it's fair that you guys
>paint him to be an angel or anything like that.
>
>Yes, he's 67, but he makes over $90K/year, and he's on a one year
>contract... but I just think that if he knew he had to give me money he
>would quit his job... and I just wanted to know whether he'd have to give me
>money when he's on his (HUGE) pension... but I guess you guys won't give me
>the answer, so that's fine.
>
>"Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
s.com...
>> "Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls? You really
>> expect
>> > a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month.
>>
>> I have a friend being forced to pay more child support than he actually
>> makes. Since the courts cannot take more than 50% of his income due to
>the
>> 'fair credit' federal laws, they put the rest on arrears and tack on a
>12%?
>> interest rate so as to 'encourage' him to pay it off. Divorce appears to
>be
>> a pretty good business for most women. Excellent lifestyle, good income.
>I
>> spoke with one woman once who specifically told me that she intentionally
>> looks for men to get impregnated by so that she can end up collecting
>child
>> support from them.
>>
>> > Living with your parents is
>> > one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not matter
>> how
>> > old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
>> courts)
>> >
>> > Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father. I
>would
>> > not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime which
>at
>> > that age could be right around the corner. That maybe the only way to
>> teach
>> > you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.
>> >
>> > "Jackie" > wrote in message
>> > . ca...
>> > > Hello,
>> > >
>> > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
>> > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
>the
>> > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
>> be
>> > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based
>on
>> a
>> > > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
>> on
>> > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
>of
>> > his
>> > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
>> long
>> > as
>> > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
>already
>> > > over 18)?!
>> > >
>> > > Thanks in advance,
>> > >
>> > > Jackie

Tiffany
August 4th 03, 02:02 PM
Jackie > wrote in message
. ca...
>
> "Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
> ...
> > Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls?
>
> I would say I've got no balls... from a physiological standpoint.
>
> You really expect
> > a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month.
>
> Well, a 67 year old man who brought me to this earth, and who makes
> $90K/year... yep.
>
> Living with your parents is
> > one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not matter
> how
> > old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
> courts)
>
> Nope, I'm expecting that kind of money as a student.
>
> > Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father.
>
> Why would I?! As I said in another post, he's one of the most abusive
people
> I know.
>
> I would
> > not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime which
at
> > that age could be right around the corner.
>
> He already told me that he's going to be adopting other children, and that
> he is going to support them through school, because he doesn't want to
give
> me any of his money. (i.e. he would do anything to make it more difficult
> for me to go to school... and he's willing to give the money out to ANYONE
> but his own children, and the mother of his children)... so, think what
you
> want... you don't matter anyway.
>
> That maybe the only way to teach
> > you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.
>
> Yep, you're obviously right.
>


You stated elsewhere that you have only one year left of school? If your
father is the asshole you claim, then just keep him out of your life. I
personally wouldn't want anything to do with a man like that. Finish your
last year of school and move on.

Tiffany
August 4th 03, 02:05 PM
Jackie > wrote in message
. ca...
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> arthlink.net...
> >
> > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > . ca...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
the
> > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
> be
> > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based
on
> a
> > > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
> on
> > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
of
> > his
> > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> long
> > as
> > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
already
> > > over 18)?!
> >
> > Here's an answer that doesn't blast you for asking a reasonable
question.
> >
> > Your state law and case law will drive how your situation is handled.
For
> > instance, in my state there is a child attending school statute that
> extends
> > CS for minor children until age 21 if they continually attend some form
of
> > post-secondary education, stay enrolled at least 50% of the time,
maintain
> > at least a "C" average, and comply with state requirements to file
grades,
> > confirmations of enrollment, and details of course of study.
> >
> > In my state, the case law says child attending school support is an
> > extension of CS for minor children so the statute cannot be used to
> > establish an order for an adult child who is already 18 years of age
when
> > their parents divorce.
> >
> > There is an advantage for you as a student that you may not have
realized
> > yet. After your parents are divorced the FFSA input you file will be
> based
> > on the parent's income where you live 50+% of the time. That means your
> > expected family contribution will go down allowing you to qualify for
> loans
> > and grants at a lower income level than your parent's combined income.
If
> > you can work it out with your parents, you can use the lower income
> earners
> > financial data for setting the EFC and then get financial support from
> both
> > parents under the radar screen of how the government manages FFSA. It's
> > actually an advantage for you because there will be no CS to add to your
> > FFSA input as income for your and your 50+% parent.
> >
>
> Geez... an actual answer... thank you so much... I think most people don't
> realize that it's nearly impossible to get a student loan when both of
your
> parents make a lot of money...

Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't make
hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point where
they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 02:53 PM
"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
> Let me tell you guys a few things.
>
> 1. My father's basically got it made... he makes over $90K/year, and he's
> the one who wants the divorce from my mother.
> 2. He's told me on multiple occasions that he is going to make it as
> difficult as possible for me to NOT be able to go to school (for one,
> because of his income, I can't get a student loan, and he's not willing to
> pay for my education).
> 3. He's verbally abusive and tells me that he wishes he never had me and
> that I am stupid, just like my mother, and how, if we weren't in Canada,
he
> would have given me away when I was born.
>
> So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for
some
> advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I see
> you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway.

There is the 'you are a deadbeat, so you have no rights and deserve
everything you get' argument. I remember the same argument being applied to
Jews and Blacks sometime a while back in our history. First, label them...
then call them evil...

"First the Nazis went after the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew so I didn't react.
Then they went after the Catholics, but I wasn't a Catholic, so I did not
object. Then they went after the deadbeats, but I wasn't a deadbeat, so I
didn't stand up. And then they went after the me, and by then It was too
late for anybody to stand up."

For your information, I have a very good relationship with my ex-wife.
Still can't figure out why Americans think they have to hate each other
after a divorce. In any case, I am having no problems "paying" anything,
especially since there are better ways to support children than throwing
money at them and we BOTH tend to agree on that aspect.

I only became aware of the injustices of the child support system when the
divorce got tricky. Not because of anyone involved in the divorce, but
because of the judges and governments. I started looking into the situation
and could not believe it. That was when I had a clear understanding of how
NOBODY should ever have their rights denied them for any reason. Not
murderers, rapists, jews, blacks, deadbeats, communists, or anyone else.
EVERYONE should have the ability and right to stand before a nonpartial
judge and to present his case. Having worked at the Judicial Courts and
one-on-one with the judges however, I have CLEARLY found that is not the
case at all. You should hear, especially some of the female judges, what
they have to say about just MEN.... that's it, just men.

I remember one instance where a female judge was so disgusted by men, she
ordered that the toilet in her bathroom be changed out completely when she
found out that a male had sat on it. Thank God for juries when we have
judges like this. Problem is... guess what...

You can convict a man with felony failure to pay child support. Send him to
jail and prison. Take away his voting rights, his license to do business
and make income. Do you think he gets a court appointed attorney? Nope, he
pays for that himself. Does he get a jury? Nope, they claim it has to do
with privacy issues. Well, does he at least get to have his case heard
publicly... you know, that system they devised to see to it that courts to
not abuse the system... nope, more privacy issues. And I don't blame them
either, I wouldn't want my public know what I was doing behind those closed
doors either if I was them. Here is an even better kicker... does he at
LEAST get to present his case before an elected judge? Not in about 90% of
the cases he doesn't.

He makes his case before an APPOINTED individual, who is not even a judge,
in a closed court room, without a court appointed attorney, in a room where
the case is not recorded, without a jury. Doesn't that sound in the
SLIGHTEST bit like something wrong is happening?

If your arguement is that parents would rather, have their driver's license
revoked, lose their voting rights, lose access to firearms for defense of
home and self-protection, lose their job and ability to find a job, be
incarcerated and even to be forced to the point of taking their own lives,
than pay money to support their children. Then you are the one with the
problem and need to seriously re-evaluate your beliefs. The problem is in
MANY MORE OF THE CASES than not, that even after their children have been
stolen from them, most have paid all they can and are NOT ABLE to pay
anymore.

So take your "my daddy makes lots of money" and "he abused me" excuses and
stuff it. They have no bearing on the fact that you are an adult and need
to support yourself for once instead of crying that other people owe it to
you to support you, even as a grown adult. Kind of reminds me of welfare
cases.

>
>
> "Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
> ...
> > Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls? You really
> expect
> > a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month. Living with your parents
> is
> > one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not matter
> how
> > old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
> courts)
> >
> > Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father. I
would
> > not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime which
at
> > that age could be right around the corner. That maybe the only way to
> teach
> > you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.
> >
> > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > . ca...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
the
> > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
> be
> > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based
on
> a
> > > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to keep
> on
> > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
of
> > his
> > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> long
> > as
> > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
already
> > > over 18)?!
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Jackie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 02:56 PM
"glow" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jackie" > wrote in message
> . ca...
> > I'm 21, and in Canada... and I'm starting to realize that probably 90%
of
> > you are either 1. Useless, or 2. In the USA... so, hopefully you're only
> > from the second category!
> > But, if you are, you won't be able to give me much advice anyway... I
just
> > didn't want to have to pay the lawyer to get that answer... but it looks
> > like I'll have to!
>
> Save your money it is obvious that you need an education. you havn't yet
> learnt that someone of the age of 21 should be capable of supporting
> themselves. you are capable of working. Go out and get a job preferrably
in
> your field of study. this will help you to understand the practical
> application of your study and maybe even give credits towards your course.
> as well as enabling you to actually support yourself like a capable person
> should.

With the times being the way it is, I have little hope that 'court jester'
openings are readily available anymore.

>
> Rule in my parents house they would support us til the end of highschool
> which here is Year twelve in private schools. If we wanted to go to
> University we pay for it ourselves. My parents allowed me to live with
them
> but I had to pay board and I had to pay for my higher education
> myself....Text books, supplies and course fees.
>
> >
> > "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > How old are you, Jackie? And what state are you talking about? Does
> your
> > > mother have a copy of the support order that you can read?
> > >
> > > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > > . ca...
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in
the
> > > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
> the
> > > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire)
would
> > be
> > > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student
(based
> on
> > a
> > > > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to
keep
> > on
> > > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
> of
> > > his
> > > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> > long
> > > as
> > > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
> already
> > > > over 18)?!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > >
> > > > Jackie
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 03:23 PM
> Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't make
> hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point
where
> they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?

Hello Tiffany,
The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true. At
age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support
themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but they
can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18, but
they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.

In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to age
115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on
their income tax.

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 03:24 PM
"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Jackie > wrote in message
> . ca...
> >
> > "Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls?
> >
> > I would say I've got no balls... from a physiological standpoint.
> >
> > You really expect
> > > a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month.
> >
> > Well, a 67 year old man who brought me to this earth, and who makes
> > $90K/year... yep.
> >
> > Living with your parents is
> > > one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not
matter
> > how
> > > old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
> > courts)
> >
> > Nope, I'm expecting that kind of money as a student.
> >
> > > Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father.
> >
> > Why would I?! As I said in another post, he's one of the most abusive
> people
> > I know.
> >
> > I would
> > > not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime
which
> at
> > > that age could be right around the corner.
> >
> > He already told me that he's going to be adopting other children, and
that
> > he is going to support them through school, because he doesn't want to
> give
> > me any of his money. (i.e. he would do anything to make it more
difficult
> > for me to go to school... and he's willing to give the money out to
ANYONE
> > but his own children, and the mother of his children)... so, think what
> you
> > want... you don't matter anyway.
> >
> > That maybe the only way to teach
> > > you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.
> >
> > Yep, you're obviously right.
> >
>
>
> You stated elsewhere that you have only one year left of school? If your
> father is the asshole you claim, then just keep him out of your life. I
> personally wouldn't want anything to do with a man like that. Finish your
> last year of school and move on.

And can I hear an 'AMEN' from the congregation?!?

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 03:31 PM
"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
>
> "gini52" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > . ca...
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in the
> > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
the
> > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire) would
> be
> > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student (based
on
> a
> > > 60% course load per term)?!
> >
> > As it stands right now, if he were to keep on
> > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
of
> > his
> > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> long
> > as
> > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
already
> > > over 18)?!
> > ==
> > Let's see-Your dad is 67--that means he has a life expectancy of less
than
> > 10 years.
> > Now, why would you expect your father to support you as an adult?
>
> Because, as long as I am a full time student, I am a dependent child in
the
> eyes of the law.

Bull****. You are a dependent child until you start making your own way and
claim yourself on your income taxes. THAT is what the law says. Guess
what... you can claim yourself on your income tax at ANY TIME that you start
working. Guess what... you can EVEN FILL OUT A ZERO INCOME TAX FORM IF YOU
AREN'T MAKING ANY MONEY and STILL be able to claim yourself on the income
tax form?!?!?

Sounds to me as if the deadbeat is you.... not wanting to support yourself.

>
> > If you would expect your father to support you, why not your mother?
>
> Because she doesn't make enough money to support even herself.
>
> Hey,
> > why don't
> > you move in with a friend and sue both of them?
>
> That's a terrible comparison, unless these friends give birth to me
somehow,
> and then tell me after 21 years that they are not willing to support me in
a
> time when they ought to.
>
> Actually,
> > you might just have to get a job like the students from intact families
> and
> > states
> > that require adult children to support themselves (though it appears you
> > have pretty
> > much ruled out getting a job).
>
> I'm working right now, but I'm not going to sacrifice my grades for work
> (i.e. I will not work when I'm in school... I've tried it, and i can't do
> it.
>
> Who's going to foot your bill when your
> > dad is dead?
>
> This is my last year of school... so, I suppose no one will.
>
> > Sheesh! (Ah...I see you are in Canada. Everything applies but the legal
> > stuff)
> I don't know what that's supposed to mean... but I'm assuming it's useless
> blather from someone with nothing better to do...
>
> > ==
> > ==
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Jackie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 03:36 PM
> I am a STUDENT... that's easier said than done... Working in the summer
> earned me under $4000 and I can't apply for a student loan because my
father
> makes too much money and doesn't want to give me any of it... so any other
> bright solutions?!

I'm not buying that one either...

Listen up...

If you are not working AT ALL... fill out a zero income tax form and claim
yourself as a dependent. I DO believe that having ZERO income makes you
eligible for student loans. That will make it so it doesn't matter a hill
of beans how much mommy and daddy are making when you ask for financial aid.

I know all this because I go to school FULL TIME and live ONLY off of my
student financial aid. I take credit overloads and have a well above
average GPA.

glow
August 4th 03, 03:41 PM
Reality Check Girlee there are Grown Adults in this world who are the same
age as yourself with children. Supporting their children and raising them as
responsible people should, a number of these people are also studying while
doing so with no financial support from their Parents. I was younger than
you when I met my husband. I was working, helping take care of my step
daughter and studying. His Ex was also studying Part time at the same
university and working Part time for the govt so her studies were subsided
by the office she worked in as being relevant to her employment position.
His wages were taken by an over assessment of child support and paying the
debts from his first marriage. As she refused to sign the financial divorce
settlement. At the time I was financially supporting the three of us as the
child was staying with us about 33% of the time. I worked nights as a
security officer. Your demand to be supported at the age of 21 is sad and
pathetic. I was declared independent at the age of nineteen. Because people
in my country are assessed on their parents income until they are 25 even
though we have the choice to leave home and support ourselves from the age
of sixteen and sometimes sooner.

Don't whinge you are not worse off than anyone else.

"Jackie" > wrote in message
. ca...
> Let me tell you guys a few things.
>
> 1. My father's basically got it made... he makes over $90K/year, and he's
> the one who wants the divorce from my mother.
> 2. He's told me on multiple occasions that he is going to make it as
> difficult as possible for me to NOT be able to go to school (for one,
> because of his income, I can't get a student loan, and he's not willing to
> pay for my education).
> 3. He's verbally abusive and tells me that he wishes he never had me and
> that I am stupid, just like my mother, and how, if we weren't in Canada,
he
> would have given me away when I was born.

Well obviously as you are not even capable of supporting yourself on your
own at the age of 21!

>
> So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for
some
> advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I see
> you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway.

You have no idea just what a deadbeat is. a Deadbeat is someone who avoids
their responsibilities. How is your father a deadbeat he obviously supported
you financially for a number of years. You are now a grown women refusing
the responsibility to take care of HERSELF! The majority of people posting
here are not refusing their responsibilities. They are trying to live a life
while fullfilling their responsibilities. They are wanting an active part in
their childrens lives and being refused for no better reason than they are
more useful to the BFH as a wallet.

glow
August 4th 03, 04:23 PM
>Randy Jabsco wrote:

> Please don't bottom-post...
> It's a bitch to scroll down.
>

I agree entirely however having a mouse with a scroll wheel does make things
easier.

Bob Whiteside
August 4th 03, 06:30 PM
"teachrmama" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> > > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't
> make
> > > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point
> > where
> > > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?
> >
> > Hello Tiffany,
> > The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true.
> At
> > age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support
> > themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but
> they
> > can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18,
> but
> > they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
> >
> > In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to
> age
> > 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on
> > their income tax.
>
> So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no
> longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
financial
> aid applications.

Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the U.S. a
student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans and
grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and cut
it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:

1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school year.
2. Got married.
3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
4. Have dependents.
5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.

Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and
must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not help
them.

These rules are why I am so adamant against CS for children attending
school. The CS counts towards the parent/child combined incomes driving up
the out-of-pocket cost for college. The primary parent can keep the CS for
their own use and not use the CS for it's intended use. The child is forced
to provide the expected family contribution out of their own student loans
and part-time work pay. The primary parent can refuse to take out a parent
loan forcing the student to borrow even more money. The students actually
are put at a disadvantage when there is CS for a child attending school
because the CS.

Paul Fritz
August 4th 03, 06:36 PM
"Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
s.com...
> > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't
make
> > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point
> where
> > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?
>
> Hello Tiffany,
> The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true.
At
> age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support
> themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but
they
> can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18,
but
> they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
>
> In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to
age
> 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on
> their income tax.
>

Sounds to me like Jsckie's momma is being greedy and claiming her as a
dependant, making her ineligible for loans........sounds to me like Jackie
is learning entitlement dependency from het momma.

>

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 06:47 PM
haha... sorry. I was good about removing the signature file in the other
postings. I guess I forgot this one. This signature file is primarily used
in another group which often makes a lot of fuss over it.

"glow" > wrote in message
...
>
> >Randy Jabsco wrote:
>
> > Please don't bottom-post...
> > It's a bitch to scroll down.
> >
>
> I agree entirely however having a mouse with a scroll wheel does make
things
> easier.
>
>

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 06:52 PM
"teachrmama" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> > > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother didn't
> make
> > > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a point
> > where
> > > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?
> >
> > Hello Tiffany,
> > The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is true.
> At
> > age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and support
> > themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but
> they
> > can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until 18,
> but
> > they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
> >
> > In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up to
> age
> > 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant on
> > their income tax.
>
> So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no
> longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
financial
> aid applications.

Assuming she has ZERO income. All she would have to do is file a zero
income tax report and claim herself as a dependent. Then it would be
illegal for either of her parents to claim her, since she is claiming
herself. If she does not have zero income, then she would just file any tax
report just the same and still claim herself as a dependent. Same
situation, same results. It would not matter if she is living at home with
both parents, one parent, or with neither. There are plenty of students
living at home with their parents and they claim themselves as their own
dependents. Financial Aid office would not have anything to say about it
either way.

I filed my first income tax report, claiming myself as a dependent, when I
was 17.

Bob Whiteside
August 4th 03, 07:16 PM
"Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
s.com...
> "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> > s.com...
> > > > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
didn't
> > make
> > > > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
point
> > > where
> > > > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?
> > >
> > > Hello Tiffany,
> > > The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
true.
> > At
> > > age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
support
> > > themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but
> > they
> > > can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until
18,
> > but
> > > they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
> > >
> > > In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up
to
> > age
> > > 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant
on
> > > their income tax.
> >
> > So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no
> > longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
> financial
> > aid applications.
>
> Assuming she has ZERO income. All she would have to do is file a zero
> income tax report and claim herself as a dependent. Then it would be
> illegal for either of her parents to claim her, since she is claiming
> herself. If she does not have zero income, then she would just file any
tax
> report just the same and still claim herself as a dependent. Same
> situation, same results. It would not matter if she is living at home
with
> both parents, one parent, or with neither. There are plenty of students
> living at home with their parents and they claim themselves as their own
> dependents. Financial Aid office would not have anything to say about it
> either way.
>
> I filed my first income tax report, claiming myself as a dependent, when I
> was 17.

There are major differences between income tax dependency and
dependent/independent definitions for college loans and grants. The
assumption that a student claiming income tax dependency creates financial
aid independence is incorrect for U.S. citizens. If you are talking about
Canadian laws please make that clear.

August 4th 03, 07:19 PM
: "Jackie" > wrote in message
: . ca...
:> So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for
: some
:> advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I see
:> you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway.

It appears that YOU are the deadbeat.

Paul Fritz
August 4th 03, 07:36 PM
"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
>
> "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> > "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> > > s.com...
> > > > > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
> didn't
> > > make
> > > > > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
> point
> > > > where
> > > > > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?
> > > >
> > > > Hello Tiffany,
> > > > The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
> true.
> > > At
> > > > age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
> support
> > > > themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters,
but
> > > they
> > > > can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until
> 18,
> > > but
> > > > they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
> > > >
> > > > In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up
> to
> > > age
> > > > 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant
> on
> > > > their income tax.
> > >
> > > So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can
no
> > > longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
> > financial
> > > aid applications.
> >
> > Assuming she has ZERO income. All she would have to do is file a zero
> > income tax report and claim herself as a dependent. Then it would be
> > illegal for either of her parents to claim her, since she is claiming
> > herself. If she does not have zero income, then she would just file any
> tax
> > report just the same and still claim herself as a dependent. Same
> > situation, same results. It would not matter if she is living at home
> with
> > both parents, one parent, or with neither. There are plenty of students
> > living at home with their parents and they claim themselves as their own
> > dependents. Financial Aid office would not have anything to say about
it
> > either way.
> >
> > I filed my first income tax report, claiming myself as a dependent, when
I
> > was 17.
>
> There are major differences between income tax dependency and
> dependent/independent definitions for college loans and grants. The
> assumption that a student claiming income tax dependency creates financial
> aid independence is incorrect for U.S. citizens. If you are talking about
> Canadian laws please make that clear.

Just another example of congress disregarding the constitution

>
>

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 07:48 PM
"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
>
> "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> > s.com...
> > > > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
didn't
> > make
> > > > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
point
> > > where
> > > > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?
> > >
> > > Hello Tiffany,
> > > The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
true.
> > At
> > > age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
support
> > > themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters, but
> > they
> > > can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until
18,
> > but
> > > they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
> > >
> > > In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up
to
> > age
> > > 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant
on
> > > their income tax.
> >
> > So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can no
> > longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
> financial
> > aid applications.
>
> Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the U.S.
a
> student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans
and
> grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and cut
> it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:
>
> 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school year.
> 2. Got married.
> 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
> 4. Have dependents.
> 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
> 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.

That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why they
never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information. A
person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was
discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to declare
me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the right
to enter into contracts.

>
> Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and
> must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not
help
> them.

As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would be
her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial aid.
Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that he
does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the situation.

>
> These rules are why I am so adamant against CS for children attending
> school. The CS counts towards the parent/child combined incomes driving
up
> the out-of-pocket cost for college. The primary parent can keep the CS
for
> their own use and not use the CS for it's intended use. The child is
forced
> to provide the expected family contribution out of their own student loans
> and part-time work pay. The primary parent can refuse to take out a
parent
> loan forcing the student to borrow even more money. The students actually
> are put at a disadvantage when there is CS for a child attending school
> because the CS.
>
>

Bob Whiteside
August 4th 03, 09:03 PM
"Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
s.com...
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> thlink.net...
> >
> > "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> > > s.com...
> > > > > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
> didn't
> > > make
> > > > > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
> point
> > > > where
> > > > > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?
> > > >
> > > > Hello Tiffany,
> > > > The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
> true.
> > > At
> > > > age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
> support
> > > > themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters,
but
> > > they
> > > > can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave until
> 18,
> > > but
> > > > they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
> > > >
> > > > In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way up
> to
> > > age
> > > > 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a dependant
> on
> > > > their income tax.
> > >
> > > So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they can
no
> > > longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
> > financial
> > > aid applications.
> >
> > Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the
U.S.
> a
> > student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for loans
> and
> > grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and
cut
> > it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:
> >
> > 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school
year.
> > 2. Got married.
> > 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
> > 4. Have dependents.
> > 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
> > 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.
>
> That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why
they
> never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information.
A
> person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was
> discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to declare
> me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the
right
> to enter into contracts.

A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot
overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and grants.
Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college
funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent.

>
> >
> > Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent and
> > must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does not
> help
> > them.
>
> As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would be
> her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial
aid.
> Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that he
> does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the
situation.

I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with
financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed.
She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for free
money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing
college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments
about the process without knowing the details themselves.

CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS
received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite all
the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does.

teachrmama
August 4th 03, 10:10 PM
"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
>
> "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> s.com...
> > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > thlink.net...
> > >
> > > "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> > > > s.com...
> > > > > > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
> > didn't
> > > > make
> > > > > > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is a
> > point
> > > > > where
> > > > > > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Tiffany,
> > > > > The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it is
> > true.
> > > > At
> > > > > age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
> > support
> > > > > themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal matters,
> but
> > > > they
> > > > > can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave
until
> > 18,
> > > > but
> > > > > they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
> > > > >
> > > > > In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the way
up
> > to
> > > > age
> > > > > 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a
dependant
> > on
> > > > > their income tax.
> > > >
> > > > So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they
can
> no
> > > > longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
> > > financial
> > > > aid applications.
> > >
> > > Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the
> U.S.
> > a
> > > student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for
loans
> > and
> > > grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming and
> cut
> > > it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:
> > >
> > > 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school
> year.
> > > 2. Got married.
> > > 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
> > > 4. Have dependents.
> > > 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
> > > 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.
> >
> > That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why
> they
> > never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the information.
> A
> > person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there was
> > discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to
declare
> > me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the
> right
> > to enter into contracts.
>
> A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot
> overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and grants.
> Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college
> funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent.
>
> >
> > >
> > > Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent
and
> > > must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does
not
> > help
> > > them.
> >
> > As the primary parent however, according to her description, that would
be
> > her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from financial
> aid.
> > Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean that
he
> > does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the
> situation.
>
> I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with
> financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed.
> She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for free
> money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing
> college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments
> about the process without knowing the details themselves.
>
> CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS
> received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite all
> the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does.

So, Bob, if Jackie were living in Oregon, would a court award her the $$,
since there was never a CS order before she turned 18? The divorce is
occuring when she is 21--wouldn't that make a difference?

Bob Whiteside
August 4th 03, 11:33 PM
"teachrmama" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> thlink.net...
> >
> > "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> > s.com...
> > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > thlink.net...
> > > >
> > > > "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> > > > > s.com...
> > > > > > > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your mother
> > > didn't
> > > > > make
> > > > > > > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but there is
a
> > > point
> > > > > > where
> > > > > > > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up there?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Tiffany,
> > > > > > The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but it
is
> > > true.
> > > > > At
> > > > > > age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home and
> > > support
> > > > > > themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal
matters,
> > but
> > > > > they
> > > > > > can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them leave
> until
> > > 18,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all the
way
> up
> > > to
> > > > > age
> > > > > > 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a
> dependant
> > > on
> > > > > > their income tax.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so they
> can
> > no
> > > > > longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in her
> > > > financial
> > > > > aid applications.
> > > >
> > > > Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in the
> > U.S.
> > > a
> > > > student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify for
> loans
> > > and
> > > > grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy coming
and
> > cut
> > > > it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that school
> > year.
> > > > 2. Got married.
> > > > 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
> > > > 4. Have dependents.
> > > > 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
> > > > 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.
> > >
> > > That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be why
> > they
> > > never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the
information.
> > A
> > > person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16 there
was
> > > discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to
> declare
> > > me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including the
> > right
> > > to enter into contracts.
> >
> > A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge cannot
> > overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and
grants.
> > Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the college
> > funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Until one of those events occurs the student is considered dependent
> and
> > > > must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent does
> not
> > > help
> > > > them.
> > >
> > > As the primary parent however, according to her description, that
would
> be
> > > her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from
financial
> > aid.
> > > Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean
that
> he
> > > does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the
> > situation.
> >
> > I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with
> > financing her college education after her parent's divorce is completed.
> > She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for
free
> > money. Young people who try to understand their options for financing
> > college education are a lot smarter than those who make value judgments
> > about the process without knowing the details themselves.
> >
> > CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S. CS
> > received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and despite
all
> > the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does.
>
> So, Bob, if Jackie were living in Oregon, would a court award her the $$,
> since there was never a CS order before she turned 18?

My reading of the Thomas case, which is the appeals court case I cited,
would be no. In Thomas the court said, "ORS 107.108 does not create a new
parental obligation, but only empowers courts to extend a noncustodial
parent's preexisting duty to pay support beyond a child's eighteenth
birthday, if the child is attending school."

Inerestingly, also in the Thomas case, the appeals court ruled when there is
a break is CS accruals after a child reaches 18 because they do not attend
school, the statute cannot be used to restart a prior CS order that lapsed
due to non-attendance.

The divorce is
> occuring when she is 21--wouldn't that make a difference?

Yes. The Oregon law for support of a child attending school applies for
18-20 year old students only with support accruals ceasing when the child
reaches 21.

Randy Jabsco
August 4th 03, 11:43 PM
Who me? I didn't write that. Jackie wrote that bit.

--
Randy

Please don't bottom-post...
It's a bitch to scroll down.

> wrote in message
...
> : "Jackie" > wrote in message
> : . ca...
> :> So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for
> : some
> :> advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I
see
> :> you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway.
>
> It appears that YOU are the deadbeat.

Phil #3
August 5th 03, 04:35 AM
Keep in mind that $90 Canadian is about $64 American.

Phil #3

"Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
...
>
> "Jackie" > wrote in message
> . ca...
> > Let me tell you guys a few things.
> >
> > 1. My father's basically got it made... he makes over $90K/year, and
he's
> > the one who wants the divorce from my mother.
>
> 90k a year is peanuts if you are living in cities like NYC and many other
> metro areas where you are lucky to find a rental for under 2k a month.
> When you can find something under 2k the paradox is you cannot make over
40k
> to get the lower rent. Perhaps he also has other expenses and needs to
put
> away for retirement which leaves him little to pay for your college? The
> point is you still have not made your case where as an adult your 67 year
> old father should be paying you $800 a month,
>
> > 2. He's told me on multiple occasions that he is going to make it as
> > difficult as possible for me to NOT be able to go to school (for one,
> > because of his income, I can't get a student loan, and he's not willing
to
> > pay for my education).
>
> Hmmm. Why is that? What are you not telling us?
>
> > 3. He's verbally abusive and tells me that he wishes he never had me and
> > that I am stupid, just like my mother, and how, if we weren't in Canada,
> he
> > would have given me away when I was born.
> >
>
> Hmmm, did this really happen? Was this out of anger during an arguement?
> What did you say to him first?
>
> > So, there's no love lost between the two of us... I was just asking for
> some
> > advice, and if you guys won't give it, then I'll go to our lawyer... I
see
> > you guys are likely all deadbeat dads anyway.
> >
>
> In other words you cannot accept the truth about yourself and rather live
> the illusion that the words of advice here are from deadbeat dads to make
> you feel better.
>
> >
> > "Dave" <dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Are you for real or do you have one massive set of balls? You really
> > expect
> > > a 67 year old man to provide you $800 a month. Living with your
parents
> > is
> > > one thing (my children can stay with me as long as they like not
matter
> > how
> > > old), but expecting that kind of money as an adult! (and through the
> > courts)
> > >
> > > Thats sick and you obviously do not give a damn about your father. I
> would
> > > not be so suprised that when he dies he does not leave you a dime
which
> at
> > > that age could be right around the corner. That maybe the only way to
> > teach
> > > you some sense of morality in caring for others in life.
> > >
> > > "Jackie" > wrote in message
> > > . ca...
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure if anyone here would know but... if my parents are in
the
> > > > middle of a divorce right now, and my father decides to retire once
> the
> > > > divorce is settled (he's 67, so, it's not odd for him to retire)
would
> > be
> > > > still need to pay me child support if I am a full time student
(based
> on
> > a
> > > > 60% course load per term)?! As it stands right now, if he were to
keep
> > on
> > > > working, he would need to pay approximately $800/month to me because
> of
> > > his
> > > > income. If he were to retire would he still be required to pay me as
> > long
> > > as
> > > > I was a "dependent child" (i.e. a full time student... since I'm
> already
> > > > over 18)?!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > >
> > > > Jackie
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Bob Whiteside
August 5th 03, 06:34 AM
"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:75GXa.68523$YN5.53503@sccrnsc01...
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> thlink.net...
> >
> > "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > thlink.net...
> > > >
> > > > "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> > > > s.com...
> > > > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > > > thlink.net...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "teachrmama" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Randy Jabsco" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > s.com...
> > > > > > > > > Hold on here..... you said in a previous post that your
> mother
> > > > > didn't
> > > > > > > make
> > > > > > > > > hardly any money.... And I am not sure of the age but
there
> is
> > a
> > > > > point
> > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > they don't ask for parents income. What is that age up
> there?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello Tiffany,
> > > > > > > > The age is 16. I know that sounds hardly believable, but
it
> > is
> > > > > true.
> > > > > > > At
> > > > > > > > age 16, your children have the right to choose to leave home
> and
> > > > > support
> > > > > > > > themselves. They can't sign contracts and get into legal
> > matters,
> > > > but
> > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > can leave home on their own accord. You can't make them
leave
> > > until
> > > > > 18,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > they can leave on their own at age 16 if they want to.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In all actuality, your parent's income could matter all
the
> > way
> > > up
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > age
> > > > > > > > 115 (one hundred and fifteen) if they still claim you as a
> > > dependant
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > > their income tax.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, then, Randy, all she has to do is become independent, so
> they
> > > can
> > > > no
> > > > > > > longer claim her, right? Then their incomes wouldn't count in
> her
> > > > > > financial
> > > > > > > aid applications.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Randy has not said whether he is from Canada or the U.S., but in
> the
> > > > U.S.
> > > > > a
> > > > > > student cannot just declare themselves independent to qualify
for
> > > loans
> > > > > and
> > > > > > grants at a lower income level. Congress saw that strategy
coming
> > and
> > > > cut
> > > > > > it off by defining a student as "dependent" until they:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Are born before 1/1 in a year where they reach 25 in that
> school
> > > > year.
> > > > > > 2. Got married.
> > > > > > 3. Enrolled in graduate or professional school.
> > > > > > 4. Have dependents.
> > > > > > 5. Are orphaned or a ward of the court.
> > > > > > 6. Are a veteran of the Armed Forces.
> > > > >
> > > > > That may be the case, I got married at an early age so that may be
> why
> > > > they
> > > > > never inquired as to my parent's income. Thank you for the
> > information.
> > > > A
> > > > > person can also be declared independent by a judge. At age 16
there
> > was
> > > > > discussion in my family about going to court and asking a judge to
> > > declare
> > > > > me as independent and giving me full rights of an adult, including
> the
> > > > right
> > > > > to enter into contracts.
> > > >
> > > > A state judge can declare a minor to be "emancipated" but a judge
> cannot
> > > > overrule a federal law regarding qualifying for college loans and
> > grants.
> > > > Being declared emancipated is not one of the exceptions to the
college
> > > > funding legislation that allows a person to be viewd as independent.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Until one of those events occurs the student is considered
> dependent
> > > and
> > > > > > must declare their primary parent's income even if that parent
> does
> > > not
> > > > > help
> > > > > > them.
> > > > >
> > > > > As the primary parent however, according to her description, that
> > would
> > > be
> > > > > her poor penniless mother and would thus not exclude her from
> > financial
> > > > aid.
> > > > > Furthermore, if the father is paying child support that would mean
> > that
> > > he
> > > > > does not have custody of her and his income should not effect the
> > > > situation.
> > > >
> > > > I believe the OP was just trying to understand where she stood with
> > > > financing her college education after her parent's divorce is
> completed.
> > > > She wasn't trying to make some social statement or make a demand for
> > free
> > > > money. Young people who try to understand their options for
financing
> > > > college education are a lot smarter than those who make value
> judgments
> > > > about the process without knowing the details themselves.
> > > >
> > > > CS is a factor in determining college loans and grants. In the U.S.
> CS
> > > > received is an add-on to primary parent and child incomes and
despite
> > all
> > > > the protests stating it should not affect the situation, it does.
> > >
> > > So, Bob, if Jackie were living in Oregon, would a court award her the
> $$,
> > > since there was never a CS order before she turned 18?
> >
> > My reading of the Thomas case, which is the appeals court case I cited,
> > would be no. In Thomas the court said, "ORS 107.108 does not create a
new
> > parental obligation, but only empowers courts to extend a noncustodial
> > parent's preexisting duty to pay support beyond a child's eighteenth
> > birthday, if the child is attending school."
>
>
> What about CP's? What if a child, from a divorce, who just finished high
> school leaves home and wishes to pursue child support against the CP?
What
> if the child support award mentioned *nothing* about college? How about a
> CP who was once the NCP of this child, and the child support case against
> the NCP (who is now the CP) is closed?

Since ORS 107.108 is written the way it is, and the appeals court has ruled
the way they have, the legal answer is the CP has no CS obligation for a
child after age 17 unless the child hires an attorney and "joins" the
original case and then gets an order from the court requiring both the NCP
and the CP to pay adult attending school CS.

This is why I got so ****ed at the CS system after my daughter reached age
18. My CS obligation was based on the income shares model considering both
parent's incomes, but only the NCP parent was required to pay the CS money
to the child direct as specified in the law. The CP under the appellate
decision in Thomas has no obligation to support a post-17 child. The
appeals court made it very clear in Thomas only the NCP can be ordered to
support the child's advanced education pursuits.