Can Living Outside U.S. Reduce Support Award?

[John Doe]

If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that country),
can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what the people earn
there?

For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my profession
in California (the United States). I will move to a developing country
where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as $12,000 NET/year (salaries
are reported to job applicant as net), and if I am fortunate, as much as
double that (but not likely). Can I ask the judge in a U.S. family court
to take this into consideration?

I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for non-payment of
CS because I had been living abroad and paying would have meant going
hungry and being unable to contribute support to the household (note
however that this award for support was issued before I had emigrated
although after I was married to another woman).

The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court (for the
1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a modification of support,
and with the hearing a month from now, can I ask the court if it would
impose an award of support that would prevent me from emigrating to be with
my family?

[Chris Owens]

John Doe wrote:
>
> If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that country),
> can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what the people earn
> there?
>
> For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my profession
> in California (the United States). I will move to a developing country
> where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as $12,000 NET/year (salaries
> are reported to job applicant as net), and if I am fortunate, as much as
> double that (but not likely). Can I ask the judge in a U.S. family court
> to take this into consideration?
>
> I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for non-payment of
> CS because I had been living abroad and paying would have meant going
> hungry and being unable to contribute support to the household (note
> however that this award for support was issued before I had emigrated
> although after I was married to another woman).
>
> The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court (for the
> 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a modification of support,
> and with the hearing a month from now, can I ask the court if it would
> impose an award of support that would prevent me from emigrating to be with
> my family?

You, sir, are in deep deep trouble. Get a lawyer, now. A judge
is likely to consider you as having voluntarily lowered your
income, and not give you any consideration for it. Neither do
you get credit for having voluntarily added to your household
expenses to a point where you cannot afford to pay for support.

Chris Owens


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[[email protected]]

(Me) wrote:
"[I]f you have not been paying for a long time, you are probably going
to get stuck with a huge bill for back support along with interest. You
may also be facing felony charges depending on the amount. There is a
very good chance you will not be able to get a passport to get out of
the country either (or have any existing passport revoked). Your
driver's license may also be suspended. You could be stripped of any way
of making a living, handed a huge bill, and be told pay up or go to
jail. Not trying to scare you, but trying to give you a heads up of what
could be coming."

---"Me" is correct, and also allow me to throw in the fact that if you
manage to get out of the United States under these circumstances, you
may not be allowed back in, or you might be arrested at the airport.
This has happened before (and it may happen to my deadbeat sometime in
the future).

[[email protected]]

(Me) wrote:
"[I]f you have not been paying for a long time, you are probably going
to get stuck with a huge bill for back support along with interest. You
may also be facing felony charges depending on the amount. There is a
very good chance you will not be able to get a passport to get out of
the country either (or have any existing passport revoked). Your
driver's license may also be suspended. You could be stripped of any way
of making a living, handed a huge bill, and be told pay up or go to
jail. Not trying to scare you, but trying to give you a heads up of what
could be coming."

---"Me" is correct, and also allow me to throw in the fact that if you
manage to get out of the United States under these circumstances, you
may not be allowed back in, or you might be arrested at the airport.
This has happened before (and it may happen to my deadbeat sometime in
the future).

[teachrmama]

> wrote in message
...
> (Me) wrote:
> "[I]f you have not been paying for a long time, you are probably going
> to get stuck with a huge bill for back support along with interest. You
> may also be facing felony charges depending on the amount. There is a
> very good chance you will not be able to get a passport to get out of
> the country either (or have any existing passport revoked). Your
> driver's license may also be suspended. You could be stripped of any way
> of making a living, handed a huge bill, and be told pay up or go to
> jail. Not trying to scare you, but trying to give you a heads up of what
> could be coming."
>
> ---"Me" is correct, and also allow me to throw in the fact that if you
> manage to get out of the United States under these circumstances, you
> may not be allowed back in, or you might be arrested at the airport.
> This has happened before (and it may happen to my deadbeat sometime in
> the future).

You've taken ownership of poor old Romaldo, have you, Brian? Are you going
to have him branded if he comes back?
>

[teachrmama]

> wrote in message
...
> (Me) wrote:
> "[I]f you have not been paying for a long time, you are probably going
> to get stuck with a huge bill for back support along with interest. You
> may also be facing felony charges depending on the amount. There is a
> very good chance you will not be able to get a passport to get out of
> the country either (or have any existing passport revoked). Your
> driver's license may also be suspended. You could be stripped of any way
> of making a living, handed a huge bill, and be told pay up or go to
> jail. Not trying to scare you, but trying to give you a heads up of what
> could be coming."
>
> ---"Me" is correct, and also allow me to throw in the fact that if you
> manage to get out of the United States under these circumstances, you
> may not be allowed back in, or you might be arrested at the airport.
> This has happened before (and it may happen to my deadbeat sometime in
> the future).

You've taken ownership of poor old Romaldo, have you, Brian? Are you going
to have him branded if he comes back?
>

[[email protected]]

(teachrmama) asked nicely:
"You've taken ownership of poor old Romaldo, have you, Brian? Are you
going to have him branded if he comes back?"

---Ronaldo will be my bitch if he ever comes back here.

[[email protected]]

(teachrmama) asked nicely:
"You've taken ownership of poor old Romaldo, have you, Brian? Are you
going to have him branded if he comes back?"

---Ronaldo will be my bitch if he ever comes back here.

[Kenneth S.]

wrote:
>
> (teachrmama) asked nicely:
> "You've taken ownership of poor old Romaldo, have you, Brian? Are you
> going to have him branded if he comes back?"
>
> ---Ronaldo will be my bitch if he ever comes back here.


On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not merely
a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson coming.
The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher than
for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
Ronaldo feels.

But then Brian is likely only a troll. (What IS the satisfaction
derived from trollery, I wonder. I suppose it's an attention-getting
device, and the satisfaction is similar to what you get from dreaming up
an Internet virus.)

[Kenneth S.]

wrote:
>
> (teachrmama) asked nicely:
> "You've taken ownership of poor old Romaldo, have you, Brian? Are you
> going to have him branded if he comes back?"
>
> ---Ronaldo will be my bitch if he ever comes back here.


On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not merely
a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson coming.
The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher than
for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
Ronaldo feels.

But then Brian is likely only a troll. (What IS the satisfaction
derived from trollery, I wonder. I suppose it's an attention-getting
device, and the satisfaction is similar to what you get from dreaming up
an Internet virus.)

[Blatt]

John Doe > wrote in message >...

> I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for non-payment of
> CS because I had been living abroad and paying would have meant going
> hungry and being unable to contribute support to the household (note
> however that this award for support was issued before I had emigrated
> although after I was married to another woman).
>
> The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court (for the
> 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a modification of support,
> and with the hearing a month from now, can I ask the court if it would
> impose an award of support that would prevent me from emigrating to be with
> my family?

It would be helpful if you defined "forcibly" and specified the
country from which you were removed, and whether you hold the
nationality of that country (and, if an EU/EEA country, another EU/EEA
nationality).

I can conceive of a find-word order that would force you to seek work
sufficient to pay the ordered child support, and punish you for not
being able to satisfy the court that you cannot meet the demand,
irrespective of the needs of subsequent family(ies) and their
survival.

There ain't no justice.

On the other hand, the bars of Latin America and Asia are filled with
"deadbeat dads" who have suffered under the slavery-oriented court
orders of ignorant judges in the USA and refuse to be cowed. One can
always buy a nationality and a passport, given sufficient assets, if
that is the issue.

[Blatt]

John Doe > wrote in message >...

> I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for non-payment of
> CS because I had been living abroad and paying would have meant going
> hungry and being unable to contribute support to the household (note
> however that this award for support was issued before I had emigrated
> although after I was married to another woman).
>
> The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court (for the
> 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a modification of support,
> and with the hearing a month from now, can I ask the court if it would
> impose an award of support that would prevent me from emigrating to be with
> my family?

It would be helpful if you defined "forcibly" and specified the
country from which you were removed, and whether you hold the
nationality of that country (and, if an EU/EEA country, another EU/EEA
nationality).

I can conceive of a find-word order that would force you to seek work
sufficient to pay the ordered child support, and punish you for not
being able to satisfy the court that you cannot meet the demand,
irrespective of the needs of subsequent family(ies) and their
survival.

There ain't no justice.

On the other hand, the bars of Latin America and Asia are filled with
"deadbeat dads" who have suffered under the slavery-oriented court
orders of ignorant judges in the USA and refuse to be cowed. One can
always buy a nationality and a passport, given sufficient assets, if
that is the issue.

[Blatt]

And, as I now remember, there's worse: the guy who complained in one
newsgroup that his ex was pursuing him for child support for years
before ... and the kid was now living with him, and he couldn't afford
both to support the kid and pay the back support to his greedy ex.

And the judge didn't care.

[Blatt]

And, as I now remember, there's worse: the guy who complained in one
newsgroup that his ex was pursuing him for child support for years
before ... and the kid was now living with him, and he couldn't afford
both to support the kid and pay the back support to his greedy ex.

And the judge didn't care.

[[email protected]]

"Kenneth S." > wrote:

> On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not merely
> a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson coming.
> The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher than
> for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
> not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
> collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
> Ronaldo feels.

Stick to the issue, Kenneth. And get some new material. I'm not a
failure in marriage. Are you?

[[email protected]]

"Kenneth S." > wrote:

> On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not merely
> a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson coming.
> The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher than
> for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
> not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
> collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
> Ronaldo feels.

Stick to the issue, Kenneth. And get some new material. I'm not a
failure in marriage. Are you?

[[email protected]]

(Blatt) wrote:
> And, as I now remember, there's worse: the guy who complained in one
> newsgroup that his ex was pursuing him for child support for years
> before ... and the kid was now living with him, and he couldn't afford
> both to support the kid and pay the back support to his greedy ex.

Some people make their bed for years, but eventually there comes a
time when they are forced to lie in it.

> And the judge didn't care.

Nor should he! Perhaps the dad in question should have paid his child
support all those years instead of ignoring his responsibility. This
is a fine example of wonderful, years-in-the-making karma, brought on
by an individual's own poor choices.

He got what he deserved.

[[email protected]]

(Blatt) wrote:
> And, as I now remember, there's worse: the guy who complained in one
> newsgroup that his ex was pursuing him for child support for years
> before ... and the kid was now living with him, and he couldn't afford
> both to support the kid and pay the back support to his greedy ex.

Some people make their bed for years, but eventually there comes a
time when they are forced to lie in it.

> And the judge didn't care.

Nor should he! Perhaps the dad in question should have paid his child
support all those years instead of ignoring his responsibility. This
is a fine example of wonderful, years-in-the-making karma, brought on
by an individual's own poor choices.

He got what he deserved.

[Kenneth S.]

wrote:
>
> "Kenneth S." > wrote:
>
> > On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not merely
> > a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson coming.
> > The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher than
> > for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
> > not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
> > collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
> > Ronaldo feels.
>
> Stick to the issue, Kenneth. And get some new material. I'm not a
> failure in marriage. Are you?



As the Good Book says, Brian, "pride goeth before a fall."

A few years down the pike, we'll see what you think about this. As I
told you before, my advice is: start the samba lessons now. You'll be
needing your dancing skills in Brazil. Maybe you and Ronaldo can be
room-mates there -- just to save money. And you can sit on the beach in
Rio with InopayCS, and watch the local ladies in their string bikinis --
assuming you HAVE some interests other that trollery, that is.

[Kenneth S.]

wrote:
>
> "Kenneth S." > wrote:
>
> > On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not merely
> > a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson coming.
> > The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher than
> > for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
> > not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
> > collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
> > Ronaldo feels.
>
> Stick to the issue, Kenneth. And get some new material. I'm not a
> failure in marriage. Are you?



As the Good Book says, Brian, "pride goeth before a fall."

A few years down the pike, we'll see what you think about this. As I
told you before, my advice is: start the samba lessons now. You'll be
needing your dancing skills in Brazil. Maybe you and Ronaldo can be
room-mates there -- just to save money. And you can sit on the beach in
Rio with InopayCS, and watch the local ladies in their string bikinis --
assuming you HAVE some interests other that trollery, that is.

[Bob Whiteside]

"Kenneth S." > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> >
> > "Kenneth S." > wrote:
> >
> > > On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not
merely
> > > a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson
coming.
> > > The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher
than
> > > for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
> > > not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
> > > collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
> > > Ronaldo feels.
> >
> > Stick to the issue, Kenneth. And get some new material. I'm not a
> > failure in marriage. Are you?
>
>
>
> As the Good Book says, Brian, "pride goeth before a fall."
>
> A few years down the pike, we'll see what you think about this. As I
> told you before, my advice is: start the samba lessons now. You'll be
> needing your dancing skills in Brazil. Maybe you and Ronaldo can be
> room-mates there -- just to save money. And you can sit on the beach in
> Rio with InopayCS, and watch the local ladies in their string bikinis --
> assuming you HAVE some interests other that trollery, that is.

"Watching" the local ladies is the keyword. Once they attach his fast-food
restaurant pay check, he won't be getting much salsa from the babes. And
Mrs. Brian will have his jewels in her jewelry case just like Renaldo's.
Make sure you sign those adoption papers Brian, because that is her key to
collecting child support from you too. Welcome to Rio!

[Bob Whiteside]

"Kenneth S." > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> >
> > "Kenneth S." > wrote:
> >
> > > On the assumption (probably totally incorrect) that Brian is not
merely
> > > a troll, I will confidently predict that Brian has a sad lesson
coming.
> > > The failure rate of second and subsequent marriages is even higher
than
> > > for first marriages in the U.S. So it's very probably that in the
> > > not-too-distant future, BRIAN will be the target of "child support"
> > > collection activities. Then he'll have an opportunity to know how
> > > Ronaldo feels.
> >
> > Stick to the issue, Kenneth. And get some new material. I'm not a
> > failure in marriage. Are you?
>
>
>
> As the Good Book says, Brian, "pride goeth before a fall."
>
> A few years down the pike, we'll see what you think about this. As I
> told you before, my advice is: start the samba lessons now. You'll be
> needing your dancing skills in Brazil. Maybe you and Ronaldo can be
> room-mates there -- just to save money. And you can sit on the beach in
> Rio with InopayCS, and watch the local ladies in their string bikinis --
> assuming you HAVE some interests other that trollery, that is.

"Watching" the local ladies is the keyword. Once they attach his fast-food
restaurant pay check, he won't be getting much salsa from the babes. And
Mrs. Brian will have his jewels in her jewelry case just like Renaldo's.
Make sure you sign those adoption papers Brian, because that is her key to
collecting child support from you too. Welcome to Rio!

[John Doe]

Chris Owens > wrote in inimitable style:

> John Doe wrote:
>>
>> If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that
>> country), can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what
>> the people earn there?
>>
>> For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my
>> profession in California (the United States). I will move to a
>> developing country where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as
>> $12,000 NET/year (salaries are reported to job applicant as net), and
>> if I am fortunate, as much as double that (but not likely). Can I
>> ask the judge in a U.S. family court to take this into consideration?
>>
>> I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
>> non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
>> have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
>> household (note however that this award for support was issued before
>> I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).
>>
>> The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
>> (for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
>> modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
>> ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
>> prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?
>
> You, sir, are in deep deep trouble. Get a lawyer, now. A judge
> is likely to consider you as having voluntarily lowered your
> income, and not give you any consideration for it. Neither do
> you get credit for having voluntarily added to your household
> expenses to a point where you cannot afford to pay for support.

You're confused.

I was married to a foreign nation a few months before I had to stipulate
to paternity and agree to support. My marriage preceded my obligation
for support.

My wife wants to live in her country. She's had her career set up there
and been a university faculty member for nearly 20 years. She doesn't
want to interrupt that career or living in her country for a few years
just because some judge has set a support award he believes any
Californian should have to pay.

I might live in San Francisco with a job which I perhaps fear losing----
who wouldn't in this economy???-----making $70K/year, but then take a job
in a "foreign country" like Kansas at $45K/year. It might be a good
career move, as well as anticipating the worst.

Are you telling me a California judge is going to criticize me in a
courtroom for taking the Kansas job and not crossing my fingers on the SF
job----a job I may not even like????

Are you telling me that California judges now become career and personal
counselor to NCPs????

[John Doe]

Chris Owens > wrote in inimitable style:

> John Doe wrote:
>>
>> If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that
>> country), can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what
>> the people earn there?
>>
>> For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my
>> profession in California (the United States). I will move to a
>> developing country where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as
>> $12,000 NET/year (salaries are reported to job applicant as net), and
>> if I am fortunate, as much as double that (but not likely). Can I
>> ask the judge in a U.S. family court to take this into consideration?
>>
>> I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
>> non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
>> have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
>> household (note however that this award for support was issued before
>> I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).
>>
>> The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
>> (for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
>> modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
>> ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
>> prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?
>
> You, sir, are in deep deep trouble. Get a lawyer, now. A judge
> is likely to consider you as having voluntarily lowered your
> income, and not give you any consideration for it. Neither do
> you get credit for having voluntarily added to your household
> expenses to a point where you cannot afford to pay for support.

You're confused.

I was married to a foreign nation a few months before I had to stipulate
to paternity and agree to support. My marriage preceded my obligation
for support.

My wife wants to live in her country. She's had her career set up there
and been a university faculty member for nearly 20 years. She doesn't
want to interrupt that career or living in her country for a few years
just because some judge has set a support award he believes any
Californian should have to pay.

I might live in San Francisco with a job which I perhaps fear losing----
who wouldn't in this economy???-----making $70K/year, but then take a job
in a "foreign country" like Kansas at $45K/year. It might be a good
career move, as well as anticipating the worst.

Are you telling me a California judge is going to criticize me in a
courtroom for taking the Kansas job and not crossing my fingers on the SF
job----a job I may not even like????

Are you telling me that California judges now become career and personal
counselor to NCPs????

[John Doe]

(Blatt) wrote in inimitable style:

> John Doe > wrote in message
> >...
>
>> I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
>> non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
>> have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
>> household (note however that this award for support was issued before
>> I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).
>>
>> The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
>> (for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
>> modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
>> ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
>> prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?
>
> It would be helpful if you defined "forcibly" and specified the
> country from which you were removed, and whether you hold the
> nationality of that country (and, if an EU/EEA country, another EU/EEA
> nationality).

I am a U.S. citizen, and only that. For 8+ years I lived overseas
without paying child support. The support award was for $140/month, and
I was earning anywhere from 400-800 USD equivalent/month in the country
in which I lived (it depended on the time of year, since salaries were
adjusted about every 6 months to deal with the approx. 100% annual
inflation rate in that developing country. Paying monthly support and
the bankwire fee (about $40-70) was not sensible. My wife was okay with
that, since it incensed her to think that "her money" would go to
"another child" (second wife syndrome is strong in a society were
divorce is low and discouraged).

I had warned my wife that if I ever took a trip to the U.S., I might be
arrested for contempt of court (for failure to pay). In 1996, I made a
visit, but nothing ever happened, although I looked over my shoulder and
was constantly expecting it. This also happened to be at the time when
there was a national outcry of "personal responsibility" and the scourge
of "deadbeat dads."

In 2000, I went to the embassy to renew my passport, they denied it as
you might guess. No passport, no staying in the country. I said goodbye
to my wife and child as I was given a limited return passport (this is
what I meant by "forcibly"). My wife told me to "deal with this mess"
and that her remaining in her country would be a hardship and sacrifice
for the family, although an unnecessary one. I resent my wife's attitude
on this naturally, for it is not difficult for her to "sacrifice" and to
live in the U.S. for a few years, being that half the people of her
country would cut off a body part for the chance to do so. But let that
be a lesson to you that not everyone is willing to sell his mother to
come to the U.S.

When I returned to the U.S., I got a job, reported to DCSS, and have been
paying. For those into numbers, that balance was $24,000, with $16,400
in overdue support and some $8000 interest (at 10% per year). Yes, each
year for the past 2, I have paid $1640 in interest charges alone. I
believe I have paid some $7000 since getting back, and the balance is
down to only $20,000. It's probably better than jail, but it's the cost
of an 18-year sentence.

> I can conceive of a find-word order that would force you to seek work
> sufficient to pay the ordered child support, and punish you for not
> being able to satisfy the court that you cannot meet the demand,
> irrespective of the needs of subsequent family(ies) and their
> survival.
>
> There ain't no justice.

Judges can pretty much do what they want, can't they?

It's the cost of inviting the state to intrude on relations of the
family.

Which is why I don't hesitate to go into long lectures with people and to
tell them to re-consider (or think long and hard) when they decide to (1)
get married (2) "shack up" (co-habitate, whatever) or (3) balance their
libidinous urges against all the precautions necessary to make sure there
are no consequences from hot, steamy sex.

> On the other hand, the bars of Latin America and Asia are filled with
> "deadbeat dads" who have suffered under the slavery-oriented court
> orders of ignorant judges in the USA and refuse to be cowed. One can
> always buy a nationality and a passport, given sufficient assets, if
> that is the issue.

I am owning up to my responsibility. And I am not against to owning up
to it. Even when I was not paying while living overseas, it was not like
I could absolutely afford to do it and chose to truly be in contempt of
the court's order.

The bitch who is the CP decided to trap me into a marriage and she should
have known better. But then I should have known better about her trying
to trap me (my family members say to this day they were telling me this
was so, and I told them at the time it was nonsense, although I have no
recollection of any of this). So then the bitch (CP) said she would have
the baby anyway and I could walk from it, and she would get on assistance
and wouldn't tell the DA. I said at the time, "You may think I am stupid
to have been with the likes of you, but you really can't believe I am
that stupid to think you won't tell the DA, perhaps years down the
road!" I did not walk to the DA's office to stipulate to paternity; I
ran to it.

Anyway, the child is 14, I figure I have less than 4 years of this
nightmare left. I just hope to get through it without too much more of
the state trying to smash the hammer down on top of my head.

[John Doe]

(Blatt) wrote in inimitable style:

> John Doe > wrote in message
> >...
>
>> I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
>> non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
>> have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
>> household (note however that this award for support was issued before
>> I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).
>>
>> The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
>> (for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
>> modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
>> ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
>> prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?
>
> It would be helpful if you defined "forcibly" and specified the
> country from which you were removed, and whether you hold the
> nationality of that country (and, if an EU/EEA country, another EU/EEA
> nationality).

I am a U.S. citizen, and only that. For 8+ years I lived overseas
without paying child support. The support award was for $140/month, and
I was earning anywhere from 400-800 USD equivalent/month in the country
in which I lived (it depended on the time of year, since salaries were
adjusted about every 6 months to deal with the approx. 100% annual
inflation rate in that developing country. Paying monthly support and
the bankwire fee (about $40-70) was not sensible. My wife was okay with
that, since it incensed her to think that "her money" would go to
"another child" (second wife syndrome is strong in a society were
divorce is low and discouraged).

I had warned my wife that if I ever took a trip to the U.S., I might be
arrested for contempt of court (for failure to pay). In 1996, I made a
visit, but nothing ever happened, although I looked over my shoulder and
was constantly expecting it. This also happened to be at the time when
there was a national outcry of "personal responsibility" and the scourge
of "deadbeat dads."

In 2000, I went to the embassy to renew my passport, they denied it as
you might guess. No passport, no staying in the country. I said goodbye
to my wife and child as I was given a limited return passport (this is
what I meant by "forcibly"). My wife told me to "deal with this mess"
and that her remaining in her country would be a hardship and sacrifice
for the family, although an unnecessary one. I resent my wife's attitude
on this naturally, for it is not difficult for her to "sacrifice" and to
live in the U.S. for a few years, being that half the people of her
country would cut off a body part for the chance to do so. But let that
be a lesson to you that not everyone is willing to sell his mother to
come to the U.S.

When I returned to the U.S., I got a job, reported to DCSS, and have been
paying. For those into numbers, that balance was $24,000, with $16,400
in overdue support and some $8000 interest (at 10% per year). Yes, each
year for the past 2, I have paid $1640 in interest charges alone. I
believe I have paid some $7000 since getting back, and the balance is
down to only $20,000. It's probably better than jail, but it's the cost
of an 18-year sentence.

> I can conceive of a find-word order that would force you to seek work
> sufficient to pay the ordered child support, and punish you for not
> being able to satisfy the court that you cannot meet the demand,
> irrespective of the needs of subsequent family(ies) and their
> survival.
>
> There ain't no justice.

Judges can pretty much do what they want, can't they?

It's the cost of inviting the state to intrude on relations of the
family.

Which is why I don't hesitate to go into long lectures with people and to
tell them to re-consider (or think long and hard) when they decide to (1)
get married (2) "shack up" (co-habitate, whatever) or (3) balance their
libidinous urges against all the precautions necessary to make sure there
are no consequences from hot, steamy sex.

> On the other hand, the bars of Latin America and Asia are filled with
> "deadbeat dads" who have suffered under the slavery-oriented court
> orders of ignorant judges in the USA and refuse to be cowed. One can
> always buy a nationality and a passport, given sufficient assets, if
> that is the issue.

I am owning up to my responsibility. And I am not against to owning up
to it. Even when I was not paying while living overseas, it was not like
I could absolutely afford to do it and chose to truly be in contempt of
the court's order.

The bitch who is the CP decided to trap me into a marriage and she should
have known better. But then I should have known better about her trying
to trap me (my family members say to this day they were telling me this
was so, and I told them at the time it was nonsense, although I have no
recollection of any of this). So then the bitch (CP) said she would have
the baby anyway and I could walk from it, and she would get on assistance
and wouldn't tell the DA. I said at the time, "You may think I am stupid
to have been with the likes of you, but you really can't believe I am
that stupid to think you won't tell the DA, perhaps years down the
road!" I did not walk to the DA's office to stipulate to paternity; I
ran to it.

Anyway, the child is 14, I figure I have less than 4 years of this
nightmare left. I just hope to get through it without too much more of
the state trying to smash the hammer down on top of my head.

[gini52]

"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> Chris Owens > wrote in inimitable style:
>
> > John Doe wrote:
> >>
> >> If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that
> >> country), can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what
> >> the people earn there?
> >>
> >> For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my
> >> profession in California (the United States). I will move to a
> >> developing country where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as
> >> $12,000 NET/year (salaries are reported to job applicant as net), and
> >> if I am fortunate, as much as double that (but not likely). Can I
> >> ask the judge in a U.S. family court to take this into consideration?
> >>
> >> I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
> >> non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
> >> have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
> >> household (note however that this award for support was issued before
> >> I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).
> >>
> >> The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
> >> (for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
> >> modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
> >> ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
> >> prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?
> >
> > You, sir, are in deep deep trouble. Get a lawyer, now. A judge
> > is likely to consider you as having voluntarily lowered your
> > income, and not give you any consideration for it. Neither do
> > you get credit for having voluntarily added to your household
> > expenses to a point where you cannot afford to pay for support.
>
> You're confused.
>
> I was married to a foreign nation a few months before I had to stipulate
> to paternity and agree to support. My marriage preceded my obligation
> for support.
>
> My wife wants to live in her country. She's had her career set up there
> and been a university faculty member for nearly 20 years. She doesn't
> want to interrupt that career or living in her country for a few years
> just because some judge has set a support award he believes any
> Californian should have to pay.
>
> I might live in San Francisco with a job which I perhaps fear losing----
> who wouldn't in this economy???-----making $70K/year, but then take a job
> in a "foreign country" like Kansas at $45K/year. It might be a good
> career move, as well as anticipating the worst.
>
> Are you telling me a California judge is going to criticize me in a
> courtroom for taking the Kansas job and not crossing my fingers on the SF
> job----a job I may not even like????
>
> Are you telling me that California judges now become career and personal
> counselor to NCPs????
===
Yes, but it isn't just California. It is system wide. Welcome to the reality
of fathers in family court.
BTW, try not to blame the messenger. Chris isn't confused. He simply advised
you of what you
could easily be up against. Most of us have significant experience in family
court and few here will
disagree with him.
===
===

[gini52]

"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> Chris Owens > wrote in inimitable style:
>
> > John Doe wrote:
> >>
> >> If I move to a foreign country to live with my spouse (from that
> >> country), can I ask the court/judge to modify support if I earn what
> >> the people earn there?
> >>
> >> For a real example, suppose I earn $40,000 GROSS each year in my
> >> profession in California (the United States). I will move to a
> >> developing country where I can expect to earn perhaps as much as
> >> $12,000 NET/year (salaries are reported to job applicant as net), and
> >> if I am fortunate, as much as double that (but not likely). Can I
> >> ask the judge in a U.S. family court to take this into consideration?
> >>
> >> I was, in fact, forcibly returned to the United States for
> >> non-payment of CS because I had been living abroad and paying would
> >> have meant going hungry and being unable to contribute support to the
> >> household (note however that this award for support was issued before
> >> I had emigrated although after I was married to another woman).
> >>
> >> The mother of the child receiving CS has now petitioned the court
> >> (for the 1st time in 14 years, the age of the child) for a
> >> modification of support, and with the hearing a month from now, can I
> >> ask the court if it would impose an award of support that would
> >> prevent me from emigrating to be with my family?
> >
> > You, sir, are in deep deep trouble. Get a lawyer, now. A judge
> > is likely to consider you as having voluntarily lowered your
> > income, and not give you any consideration for it. Neither do
> > you get credit for having voluntarily added to your household
> > expenses to a point where you cannot afford to pay for support.
>
> You're confused.
>
> I was married to a foreign nation a few months before I had to stipulate
> to paternity and agree to support. My marriage preceded my obligation
> for support.
>
> My wife wants to live in her country. She's had her career set up there
> and been a university faculty member for nearly 20 years. She doesn't
> want to interrupt that career or living in her country for a few years
> just because some judge has set a support award he believes any
> Californian should have to pay.
>
> I might live in San Francisco with a job which I perhaps fear losing----
> who wouldn't in this economy???-----making $70K/year, but then take a job
> in a "foreign country" like Kansas at $45K/year. It might be a good
> career move, as well as anticipating the worst.
>
> Are you telling me a California judge is going to criticize me in a
> courtroom for taking the Kansas job and not crossing my fingers on the SF
> job----a job I may not even like????
>
> Are you telling me that California judges now become career and personal
> counselor to NCPs????
===
Yes, but it isn't just California. It is system wide. Welcome to the reality
of fathers in family court.
BTW, try not to blame the messenger. Chris isn't confused. He simply advised
you of what you
could easily be up against. Most of us have significant experience in family
court and few here will
disagree with him.
===
===