When do the kids have the right?

[PapaPolarbear]

My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living arrangements
we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2 weeks,
mom has them 2 weeks.

I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At what age
can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order? I
have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.

Any comments?

Papa

[Clark Simmons]

If you can find a good attorney, you should be able to submit a petition at any
time. It also depends on your state laws, also.

--
Regards,
Clark, Still Free in Round Rock Texas USA
http://xld.com - Freedom's Home Page
http://xld.com/public/xldata/net.htm - ISP Service
God Bless America and her friends!



"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:oqw3b.289733$uu5.64148@sccrnsc04...
> "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living arrangements
> > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2 weeks,
> > mom has them 2 weeks.
> >
> > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At what
> age
> > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order? I
> > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> >
> > Any comments?
>
>
> I believe it is typically 13-14, but in truth it really depends on the
> judge. I suggest you seek the opinion of an attorney who knows the judges.
> You'll learn more from them than from us.
>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> "You can't solve problems with the same
> type of thinking that created them."
> Albert Einstein
>
> *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
>
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003

[Clark Simmons]

If you can find a good attorney, you should be able to submit a petition at any
time. It also depends on your state laws, also.

--
Regards,
Clark, Still Free in Round Rock Texas USA
http://xld.com - Freedom's Home Page
http://xld.com/public/xldata/net.htm - ISP Service
God Bless America and her friends!



"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:oqw3b.289733$uu5.64148@sccrnsc04...
> "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living arrangements
> > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2 weeks,
> > mom has them 2 weeks.
> >
> > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At what
> age
> > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order? I
> > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> >
> > Any comments?
>
>
> I believe it is typically 13-14, but in truth it really depends on the
> judge. I suggest you seek the opinion of an attorney who knows the judges.
> You'll learn more from them than from us.
>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> "You can't solve problems with the same
> type of thinking that created them."
> Albert Einstein
>
> *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
>
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003

[Chris]

"Clark Simmons" > wrote in message
...
> If you can find a good attorney, you should be able to submit a petition
at any
> time. It also depends on your state laws, also.

Yeah. The difference between state laws is the difference between a dumb ox
and a doorknob.

>
> --
> Regards,
> Clark, Still Free in Round Rock Texas USA
> http://xld.com - Freedom's Home Page
> http://xld.com/public/xldata/net.htm - ISP Service
> God Bless America and her friends!
>
>
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:oqw3b.289733$uu5.64148@sccrnsc04...
> > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
arrangements
> > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
weeks,
> > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > >
> > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At
what
> > age
> > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
order? I
> > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > >
> > > Any comments?
> >
> >
> > I believe it is typically 13-14, but in truth it really depends on the
> > judge. I suggest you seek the opinion of an attorney who knows the
judges.
> > You'll learn more from them than from us.
> >
> >
> > Tracy
> > ~~~~~~~
> > http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> > "You can't solve problems with the same
> > type of thinking that created them."
> > Albert Einstein
> >
> > *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003
>
>

[Chris]

"Clark Simmons" > wrote in message
...
> If you can find a good attorney, you should be able to submit a petition
at any
> time. It also depends on your state laws, also.

Yeah. The difference between state laws is the difference between a dumb ox
and a doorknob.

>
> --
> Regards,
> Clark, Still Free in Round Rock Texas USA
> http://xld.com - Freedom's Home Page
> http://xld.com/public/xldata/net.htm - ISP Service
> God Bless America and her friends!
>
>
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:oqw3b.289733$uu5.64148@sccrnsc04...
> > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
arrangements
> > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
weeks,
> > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > >
> > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At
what
> > age
> > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
order? I
> > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > >
> > > Any comments?
> >
> >
> > I believe it is typically 13-14, but in truth it really depends on the
> > judge. I suggest you seek the opinion of an attorney who knows the
judges.
> > You'll learn more from them than from us.
> >
> >
> > Tracy
> > ~~~~~~~
> > http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> > "You can't solve problems with the same
> > type of thinking that created them."
> > Albert Einstein
> >
> > *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 8/19/2003
>
>

[Paul Fritz]

AND, typically the wishes of the child is only one of a dozen or so factors
that the coursts consider.


"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:oqw3b.289733$uu5.64148@sccrnsc04...
> "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
arrangements
> > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
weeks,
> > mom has them 2 weeks.
> >
> > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At what
> age
> > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order?
I
> > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> >
> > Any comments?
>
>
> I believe it is typically 13-14, but in truth it really depends on the
> judge. I suggest you seek the opinion of an attorney who knows the
judges.
> You'll learn more from them than from us.
>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> "You can't solve problems with the same
> type of thinking that created them."
> Albert Einstein
>
> *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
>
>
>

[Paul Fritz]

AND, typically the wishes of the child is only one of a dozen or so factors
that the coursts consider.


"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:oqw3b.289733$uu5.64148@sccrnsc04...
> "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
arrangements
> > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
weeks,
> > mom has them 2 weeks.
> >
> > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At what
> age
> > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order?
I
> > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> >
> > Any comments?
>
>
> I believe it is typically 13-14, but in truth it really depends on the
> judge. I suggest you seek the opinion of an attorney who knows the
judges.
> You'll learn more from them than from us.
>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> "You can't solve problems with the same
> type of thinking that created them."
> Albert Einstein
>
> *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
>
>
>

[Chris Owens]

PapaPolarbear wrote:
>
> My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living arrangements
> we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2 weeks,
> mom has them 2 weeks.
>
> I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At what age
> can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order? I
> have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Papa

It depends on the state. Some will consider children's wishes to
some extent as soon as they are able to adequately verbalize
them; most use a standard of somewhere around 11-13 years of age;
some refuse to ever consider the wishes of the children -- for
the specificis in your state, look up your state website or talk
to your lawyer. If you wish to amend the custody agreement, be
ready to demonstrate, other than the wishes of your daughters,
why it would be better for them than the current one --
especially in respect to how this will impact their schooling . .
.. I hope that you and their mother both live in the same
district.

Chris Owens


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[Chris Owens]

PapaPolarbear wrote:
>
> My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living arrangements
> we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2 weeks,
> mom has them 2 weeks.
>
> I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At what age
> can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order? I
> have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Papa

It depends on the state. Some will consider children's wishes to
some extent as soon as they are able to adequately verbalize
them; most use a standard of somewhere around 11-13 years of age;
some refuse to ever consider the wishes of the children -- for
the specificis in your state, look up your state website or talk
to your lawyer. If you wish to amend the custody agreement, be
ready to demonstrate, other than the wishes of your daughters,
why it would be better for them than the current one --
especially in respect to how this will impact their schooling . .
.. I hope that you and their mother both live in the same
district.

Chris Owens


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[...8MM..]

"Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
...
> AND, typically the wishes of the child is only one of a dozen or so
factors
> that the coursts consider.

LOL's maybe where you are from, knowing the judge will get you cusody.



>
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:oqw3b.289733$uu5.64148@sccrnsc04...
> > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> arrangements
> > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
> weeks,
> > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > >
> > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At
what
> > age
> > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
order?
> I
> > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > >
> > > Any comments?
> >
> >
> > I believe it is typically 13-14, but in truth it really depends on the
> > judge. I suggest you seek the opinion of an attorney who knows the
> judges.
> > You'll learn more from them than from us.
> >
> >
> > Tracy
> > ~~~~~~~
> > http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> > "You can't solve problems with the same
> > type of thinking that created them."
> > Albert Einstein
> >
> > *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[...8MM..]

"Paul Fritz" > wrote in message
...
> AND, typically the wishes of the child is only one of a dozen or so
factors
> that the coursts consider.

LOL's maybe where you are from, knowing the judge will get you cusody.



>
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:oqw3b.289733$uu5.64148@sccrnsc04...
> > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> arrangements
> > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
> weeks,
> > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > >
> > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At
what
> > age
> > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
order?
> I
> > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > >
> > > Any comments?
> >
> >
> > I believe it is typically 13-14, but in truth it really depends on the
> > judge. I suggest you seek the opinion of an attorney who knows the
> judges.
> > You'll learn more from them than from us.
> >
> >
> > Tracy
> > ~~~~~~~
> > http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> > "You can't solve problems with the same
> > type of thinking that created them."
> > Albert Einstein
> >
> > *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[...8MM..]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
arrangements
> > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
weeks,
> > mom has them 2 weeks.
> >
> > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At what
> age
> > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order?
I
> > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> >
> > Any comments?
>
> Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an opinion
about
> custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity of the
> child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws that list
> the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for the court
to
> consider.
>
> In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference, refusing to
> even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change custody after
> considering all the "other" factors.

Now that sounds like the courts.

>
> The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system. They don't
> want to take the time to really study a case and make an appropriate
> decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and disregard
the
> real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try to get
the
> judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child psychologists.

Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of losing
what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always seem to
come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the children,
therefore supervised access is put in order.

> Even getting that step accomplished can be problematic since the ones who
> work for the county will just return the "good news" the judge wants to
> hear.

What the mother is best fit.

This process is called "negotiating in the shadow of the court."
>
>

[...8MM..]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
arrangements
> > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
weeks,
> > mom has them 2 weeks.
> >
> > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At what
> age
> > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order?
I
> > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> >
> > Any comments?
>
> Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an opinion
about
> custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity of the
> child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws that list
> the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for the court
to
> consider.
>
> In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference, refusing to
> even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change custody after
> considering all the "other" factors.

Now that sounds like the courts.

>
> The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system. They don't
> want to take the time to really study a case and make an appropriate
> decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and disregard
the
> real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try to get
the
> judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child psychologists.

Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of losing
what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always seem to
come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the children,
therefore supervised access is put in order.

> Even getting that step accomplished can be problematic since the ones who
> work for the county will just return the "good news" the judge wants to
> hear.

What the mother is best fit.

This process is called "negotiating in the shadow of the court."
>
>

[...8MM..]

"Chris" > wrote in message
news:Y5T3b.32719$cj1.32139@fed1read06...
>
> "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
arrangements
> > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
weeks,
> > mom has them 2 weeks.
> >
> > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario.
>
> Of course not because she knows that the more time she can keep them away
> from you the more free money she gets.

It's more then that, it depends on the child's age, but in all cases, it
doesn't matter what the mother is or does, women get custody of the
children... The avg. Father get maybe 4% of the time in court custody, don't
expect hight hopes of getting what you want, unless you got some fairy dust
about.

>
> > At what age
> > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order?
I
> > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> >
> > Any comments?

16

>
> Yes. Your daughter can run away from her and seek refuge at your home.
When
> the kourt people come and take her away, they will place her back with the
> mother. At that point, she can once again escape. Eventually, it will get
to
> the point where they lock her up in children's prison rather than see her
be
> with you. True colors at its finest!

very good, but that wouldn't happen unless the mother agree's with it, but
if she did the child would hate the mothers guts.

>
> >
> > Papa
> >
> >
>
>

[...8MM..]

"Chris" > wrote in message
news:Y5T3b.32719$cj1.32139@fed1read06...
>
> "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
arrangements
> > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
weeks,
> > mom has them 2 weeks.
> >
> > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario.
>
> Of course not because she knows that the more time she can keep them away
> from you the more free money she gets.

It's more then that, it depends on the child's age, but in all cases, it
doesn't matter what the mother is or does, women get custody of the
children... The avg. Father get maybe 4% of the time in court custody, don't
expect hight hopes of getting what you want, unless you got some fairy dust
about.

>
> > At what age
> > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the order?
I
> > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> >
> > Any comments?

16

>
> Yes. Your daughter can run away from her and seek refuge at your home.
When
> the kourt people come and take her away, they will place her back with the
> mother. At that point, she can once again escape. Eventually, it will get
to
> the point where they lock her up in children's prison rather than see her
be
> with you. True colors at its finest!

very good, but that wouldn't happen unless the mother agree's with it, but
if she did the child would hate the mothers guts.

>
> >
> > Papa
> >
> >
>
>

[Bob Whiteside]

"...8MM.." > wrote in message
news:OFO5b.4259$kW.4105@edtnps84...
>
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> arrangements
> > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
> weeks,
> > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > >
> > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At
what
> > age
> > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
order?
> I
> > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > >
> > > Any comments?
> >
> > Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an opinion
> about
> > custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity of the
> > child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws that
list
> > the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for the
court
> to
> > consider.
> >
> > In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference, refusing
to
> > even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change custody
after
> > considering all the "other" factors.
>
> Now that sounds like the courts.
>
> >
> > The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system. They
don't
> > want to take the time to really study a case and make an appropriate
> > decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and disregard
> the
> > real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try to get
> the
> > judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child
psychologists.
>
> Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
> child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
> fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of losing
> what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always seem to
> come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the children,
> therefore supervised access is put in order.

My experience with gaining custody of my son was the result of a
professional child psychologist supporting me as being able to provide an
environment where he would do better. Private child psychologists operate
on a whole different level than the honks who work for the county courts.

The psychologist got agreement up front that we would accept her evaluation
and final recommendation. She interviewed all family members in every
conceivable combination. When she announced her decision was for our son to
live with me, my ex tried to renege on her agreement to accept the final
outcome. The psychologist told her very directly she would testify on my
behalf in court as an expert witness, explain to the judge how my ex agreed
with the process, and then tried to renege. And she would testify any
second opinion expert my ex tried to hire would have a hard time showing
they were doing anything other than delivering the good news to confuse the
issue. Then we scheduled several follow-up sessions to prepare for the
physical change of custody and help me and my son understand how we could
work best together to implement the change and resolve some of the issues he
had been experiencing.

[Bob Whiteside]

"...8MM.." > wrote in message
news:OFO5b.4259$kW.4105@edtnps84...
>
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> arrangements
> > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
> weeks,
> > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > >
> > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At
what
> > age
> > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
order?
> I
> > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > >
> > > Any comments?
> >
> > Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an opinion
> about
> > custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity of the
> > child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws that
list
> > the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for the
court
> to
> > consider.
> >
> > In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference, refusing
to
> > even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change custody
after
> > considering all the "other" factors.
>
> Now that sounds like the courts.
>
> >
> > The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system. They
don't
> > want to take the time to really study a case and make an appropriate
> > decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and disregard
> the
> > real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try to get
> the
> > judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child
psychologists.
>
> Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
> child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
> fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of losing
> what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always seem to
> come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the children,
> therefore supervised access is put in order.

My experience with gaining custody of my son was the result of a
professional child psychologist supporting me as being able to provide an
environment where he would do better. Private child psychologists operate
on a whole different level than the honks who work for the county courts.

The psychologist got agreement up front that we would accept her evaluation
and final recommendation. She interviewed all family members in every
conceivable combination. When she announced her decision was for our son to
live with me, my ex tried to renege on her agreement to accept the final
outcome. The psychologist told her very directly she would testify on my
behalf in court as an expert witness, explain to the judge how my ex agreed
with the process, and then tried to renege. And she would testify any
second opinion expert my ex tried to hire would have a hard time showing
they were doing anything other than delivering the good news to confuse the
issue. Then we scheduled several follow-up sessions to prepare for the
physical change of custody and help me and my son understand how we could
work best together to implement the change and resolve some of the issues he
had been experiencing.

[...8MM..]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "...8MM.." > wrote in message
> news:OFO5b.4259$kW.4105@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > >
> > > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > > . ..
> > > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> > arrangements
> > > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
> > weeks,
> > > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > > >
> > > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At
> what
> > > age
> > > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
> order?
> > I
> > > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > > >
> > > > Any comments?
> > >
> > > Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an opinion
> > about
> > > custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity of
the
> > > child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws that
> list
> > > the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for the
> court
> > to
> > > consider.
> > >
> > > In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference, refusing
> to
> > > even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change custody
> after
> > > considering all the "other" factors.
> >
> > Now that sounds like the courts.
> >
> > >
> > > The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system. They
> don't
> > > want to take the time to really study a case and make an appropriate
> > > decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and
disregard
> > the
> > > real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try to
get
> > the
> > > judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child
> psychologists.
> >
> > Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
> > child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
> > fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of
losing
> > what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always seem to
> > come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the
children,
> > therefore supervised access is put in order.
>
> My experience with gaining custody of my son was the result of a
> professional child psychologist supporting me as being able to provide an
> environment where he would do better.

Gee that a first then, not heard of that much at all, but in Canada, I can
tell you in most cases that go in front of the courts, it doesn't matter if
the fathers are good dads or not, or what professionals they hire.

As it turns out, fathers in the majority of cases end up getting shafted,
which leaves them with wasted money on witch craft psychologist.

Having spent twelve years in the legal system I can tell you, your kind of
case is rare, that is if the mother didn't fight you for custody, or she
just gave you the kids, or she died, or as it just turns out she just to
drugged out to even take care of a pet, let alone take care of a child.

It well know that professional child psychologist are not going to win the
day for fathers in a feminist court system, and I make that known up front,
so not to give men the false hope of succeeding in their cases.

You should be thankful you didn't lose but then you never said anything
about the mother and why it was she lost the children.


Private child psychologists operate
> on a whole different level than the honks who work for the county courts.

Why that may be true, You seem to think most men have all this extra money
to pay out for this witch craft, as it is they don't, the averge guy doesn't
have huge dollars to spend to hire a dream team as it is to hire a witch
craft doctor..

>
> The psychologist got agreement up front that we would accept her
evaluation
> and final recommendation. She interviewed all family members in every
> conceivable combination.

That's standard procedure, it doesn't mean anything.

When she announced her decision was for our son to
> live with me, my ex tried to renege on her agreement to accept the final
> outcome. The psychologist told her very directly she would testify on my
> behalf in court as an expert witness, explain to the judge how my ex
agreed
> with the process, and then tried to renege. And she would testify any
> second opinion expert my ex tried to hire would have a hard time showing
> they were doing anything other than delivering the good news to confuse
the
> issue. Then we scheduled several follow-up sessions to prepare for the
> physical change of custody and help me and my son understand how we could
> work best together to implement the change and resolve some of the issues
he
> had been experiencing.

Well I glad for you, if you are the man, as it is most cases go the other
way around with poor old dad getting the screws dug in deeper.

>
>

[...8MM..]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "...8MM.." > wrote in message
> news:OFO5b.4259$kW.4105@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > >
> > > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > > . ..
> > > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> > arrangements
> > > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters 2
> > weeks,
> > > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > > >
> > > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario. At
> what
> > > age
> > > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
> order?
> > I
> > > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > > >
> > > > Any comments?
> > >
> > > Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an opinion
> > about
> > > custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity of
the
> > > child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws that
> list
> > > the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for the
> court
> > to
> > > consider.
> > >
> > > In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference, refusing
> to
> > > even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change custody
> after
> > > considering all the "other" factors.
> >
> > Now that sounds like the courts.
> >
> > >
> > > The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system. They
> don't
> > > want to take the time to really study a case and make an appropriate
> > > decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and
disregard
> > the
> > > real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try to
get
> > the
> > > judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child
> psychologists.
> >
> > Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
> > child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
> > fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of
losing
> > what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always seem to
> > come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the
children,
> > therefore supervised access is put in order.
>
> My experience with gaining custody of my son was the result of a
> professional child psychologist supporting me as being able to provide an
> environment where he would do better.

Gee that a first then, not heard of that much at all, but in Canada, I can
tell you in most cases that go in front of the courts, it doesn't matter if
the fathers are good dads or not, or what professionals they hire.

As it turns out, fathers in the majority of cases end up getting shafted,
which leaves them with wasted money on witch craft psychologist.

Having spent twelve years in the legal system I can tell you, your kind of
case is rare, that is if the mother didn't fight you for custody, or she
just gave you the kids, or she died, or as it just turns out she just to
drugged out to even take care of a pet, let alone take care of a child.

It well know that professional child psychologist are not going to win the
day for fathers in a feminist court system, and I make that known up front,
so not to give men the false hope of succeeding in their cases.

You should be thankful you didn't lose but then you never said anything
about the mother and why it was she lost the children.


Private child psychologists operate
> on a whole different level than the honks who work for the county courts.

Why that may be true, You seem to think most men have all this extra money
to pay out for this witch craft, as it is they don't, the averge guy doesn't
have huge dollars to spend to hire a dream team as it is to hire a witch
craft doctor..

>
> The psychologist got agreement up front that we would accept her
evaluation
> and final recommendation. She interviewed all family members in every
> conceivable combination.

That's standard procedure, it doesn't mean anything.

When she announced her decision was for our son to
> live with me, my ex tried to renege on her agreement to accept the final
> outcome. The psychologist told her very directly she would testify on my
> behalf in court as an expert witness, explain to the judge how my ex
agreed
> with the process, and then tried to renege. And she would testify any
> second opinion expert my ex tried to hire would have a hard time showing
> they were doing anything other than delivering the good news to confuse
the
> issue. Then we scheduled several follow-up sessions to prepare for the
> physical change of custody and help me and my son understand how we could
> work best together to implement the change and resolve some of the issues
he
> had been experiencing.

Well I glad for you, if you are the man, as it is most cases go the other
way around with poor old dad getting the screws dug in deeper.

>
>

[Bob Whiteside]

"...8MM.." > wrote in message
news:d4Q5b.4866$kW.862@edtnps84...
>
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "...8MM.." > wrote in message
> > news:OFO5b.4259$kW.4105@edtnps84...
> > >
> > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > nk.net...
> > > >
> > > > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > > > . ..
> > > > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> > > arrangements
> > > > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters
2
> > > weeks,
> > > > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario.
At
> > what
> > > > age
> > > > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
> > order?
> > > I
> > > > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any comments?
> > > >
> > > > Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an
opinion
> > > about
> > > > custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity of
> the
> > > > child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws that
> > list
> > > > the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for the
> > court
> > > to
> > > > consider.
> > > >
> > > > In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference,
refusing
> > to
> > > > even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change custody
> > after
> > > > considering all the "other" factors.
> > >
> > > Now that sounds like the courts.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system. They
> > don't
> > > > want to take the time to really study a case and make an appropriate
> > > > decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and
> disregard
> > > the
> > > > real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try to
> get
> > > the
> > > > judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child
> > psychologists.
> > >
> > > Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
> > > child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
> > > fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of
> losing
> > > what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always seem
to
> > > come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the
> children,
> > > therefore supervised access is put in order.
> >
> > My experience with gaining custody of my son was the result of a
> > professional child psychologist supporting me as being able to provide
an
> > environment where he would do better.
>
> Gee that a first then, not heard of that much at all, but in Canada, I can
> tell you in most cases that go in front of the courts, it doesn't matter
if
> the fathers are good dads or not, or what professionals they hire.
>
> As it turns out, fathers in the majority of cases end up getting shafted,
> which leaves them with wasted money on witch craft psychologist.
>
> Having spent twelve years in the legal system I can tell you, your kind of
> case is rare, that is if the mother didn't fight you for custody, or she
> just gave you the kids, or she died, or as it just turns out she just to
> drugged out to even take care of a pet, let alone take care of a child.
>
> It well know that professional child psychologist are not going to win the
> day for fathers in a feminist court system, and I make that known up
front,
> so not to give men the false hope of succeeding in their cases.
>
> You should be thankful you didn't lose but then you never said anything
> about the mother and why it was she lost the children.

You are missing my point that an effective way for a father to gain custody
is to get it done outside of the legal system and not leave it up to the
court or court appointed county payroll child psychologists to pass
judgement. In the U.S. most medical insurance covers psychological
counseling up to a lifetime dollar limit. About 8-10 counseling sessions at
about $75 each and reimbursed at 80% is not a very big cash outlay.

[Bob Whiteside]

"...8MM.." > wrote in message
news:d4Q5b.4866$kW.862@edtnps84...
>
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "...8MM.." > wrote in message
> > news:OFO5b.4259$kW.4105@edtnps84...
> > >
> > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > nk.net...
> > > >
> > > > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > > > . ..
> > > > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> > > arrangements
> > > > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my daughters
2
> > > weeks,
> > > > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario.
At
> > what
> > > > age
> > > > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
> > order?
> > > I
> > > > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any comments?
> > > >
> > > > Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an
opinion
> > > about
> > > > custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity of
> the
> > > > child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws that
> > list
> > > > the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for the
> > court
> > > to
> > > > consider.
> > > >
> > > > In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference,
refusing
> > to
> > > > even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change custody
> > after
> > > > considering all the "other" factors.
> > >
> > > Now that sounds like the courts.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system. They
> > don't
> > > > want to take the time to really study a case and make an appropriate
> > > > decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and
> disregard
> > > the
> > > > real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try to
> get
> > > the
> > > > judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child
> > psychologists.
> > >
> > > Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
> > > child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
> > > fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of
> losing
> > > what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always seem
to
> > > come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the
> children,
> > > therefore supervised access is put in order.
> >
> > My experience with gaining custody of my son was the result of a
> > professional child psychologist supporting me as being able to provide
an
> > environment where he would do better.
>
> Gee that a first then, not heard of that much at all, but in Canada, I can
> tell you in most cases that go in front of the courts, it doesn't matter
if
> the fathers are good dads or not, or what professionals they hire.
>
> As it turns out, fathers in the majority of cases end up getting shafted,
> which leaves them with wasted money on witch craft psychologist.
>
> Having spent twelve years in the legal system I can tell you, your kind of
> case is rare, that is if the mother didn't fight you for custody, or she
> just gave you the kids, or she died, or as it just turns out she just to
> drugged out to even take care of a pet, let alone take care of a child.
>
> It well know that professional child psychologist are not going to win the
> day for fathers in a feminist court system, and I make that known up
front,
> so not to give men the false hope of succeeding in their cases.
>
> You should be thankful you didn't lose but then you never said anything
> about the mother and why it was she lost the children.

You are missing my point that an effective way for a father to gain custody
is to get it done outside of the legal system and not leave it up to the
court or court appointed county payroll child psychologists to pass
judgement. In the U.S. most medical insurance covers psychological
counseling up to a lifetime dollar limit. About 8-10 counseling sessions at
about $75 each and reimbursed at 80% is not a very big cash outlay.

[...8MM..]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "...8MM.." > wrote in message
> news:d4Q5b.4866$kW.862@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > >
> > > "...8MM.." > wrote in message
> > > news:OFO5b.4259$kW.4105@edtnps84...
> > > >
> > > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > > nk.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > > > > . ..
> > > > > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> > > > arrangements
> > > > > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my
daughters
> 2
> > > > weeks,
> > > > > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario.
> At
> > > what
> > > > > age
> > > > > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
> > > order?
> > > > I
> > > > > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any comments?
> > > > >
> > > > > Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an
> opinion
> > > > about
> > > > > custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity
of
> > the
> > > > > child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws
that
> > > list
> > > > > the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for
the
> > > court
> > > > to
> > > > > consider.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference,
> refusing
> > > to
> > > > > even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change
custody
> > > after
> > > > > considering all the "other" factors.
> > > >
> > > > Now that sounds like the courts.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system.
They
> > > don't
> > > > > want to take the time to really study a case and make an
appropriate
> > > > > decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and
> > disregard
> > > > the
> > > > > real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try
to
> > get
> > > > the
> > > > > judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child
> > > psychologists.
> > > >
> > > > Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
> > > > child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
> > > > fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of
> > losing
> > > > what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always
seem
> to
> > > > come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the
> > children,
> > > > therefore supervised access is put in order.
> > >
> > > My experience with gaining custody of my son was the result of a
> > > professional child psychologist supporting me as being able to provide
> an
> > > environment where he would do better.
> >
> > Gee that a first then, not heard of that much at all, but in Canada, I
can
> > tell you in most cases that go in front of the courts, it doesn't matter
> if
> > the fathers are good dads or not, or what professionals they hire.
> >
> > As it turns out, fathers in the majority of cases end up getting
shafted,
> > which leaves them with wasted money on witch craft psychologist.
> >
> > Having spent twelve years in the legal system I can tell you, your kind
of
> > case is rare, that is if the mother didn't fight you for custody, or she
> > just gave you the kids, or she died, or as it just turns out she just to
> > drugged out to even take care of a pet, let alone take care of a child.
> >
> > It well know that professional child psychologist are not going to win
the
> > day for fathers in a feminist court system, and I make that known up
> front,
> > so not to give men the false hope of succeeding in their cases.
> >
> > You should be thankful you didn't lose but then you never said anything
> > about the mother and why it was she lost the children.
>
> You are missing my point that an effective way for a father to gain
custody
> is to get it done outside of the legal system and not leave it up to the
> court or court appointed county payroll child psychologists to pass
> judgement.

That's bull****, it still has to go to court, either way, unless both partys
agree not to, and even then, if the women changes her mind, it doesn't
matter what was agreed too, she still can take it too court.

I have seen real good reports for fathers, and agreements terminated, for
dads and been tossed out in the supreme courts, using this child
psychologist witch craft, because the feminist courts don't give one ****
either way, as long as women are heard.

All the emotional leftwing crap works better for women in the courts then
common sense including fathers using child psychologist and their witch
craft.

You might have been able to convince your ex, but it doesn't work all the
time or I should say rarely as most women would fight tooth and nail to get
their children.

In the U.S. most medical insurance covers psychological
> counseling up to a lifetime dollar limit. About 8-10 counseling sessions
at
> about $75 each and reimbursed at 80% is not a very big cash outlay.

Well tell you what, you can bull**** all these dads that come here, with all
this hope message crap, but in the real world, it doesn't work all that
great for dads.

You were just, "one of the few lucky ones", who got his kids.

I have to say, it does sound like your trying to boost business for child
psychologist and their witch craft.

[...8MM..]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "...8MM.." > wrote in message
> news:d4Q5b.4866$kW.862@edtnps84...
> >
> > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > >
> > > "...8MM.." > wrote in message
> > > news:OFO5b.4259$kW.4105@edtnps84...
> > > >
> > > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > > nk.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > "PapaPolarbear" > wrote in message
> > > > > . ..
> > > > > > My oldest daughter has been very anxious to change the living
> > > > arrangements
> > > > > > we have (I have every second weekend) so that I have my
daughters
> 2
> > > > weeks,
> > > > > > mom has them 2 weeks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd do this now except that my ex will not discuss the scenario.
> At
> > > what
> > > > > age
> > > > > > can my daughter flex her muscle and ask the courts to change the
> > > order?
> > > > I
> > > > > > have heard she will be taken seriously from about age 12.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any comments?
> > > > >
> > > > > Most states use 13-14 as the age where a child can express an
> opinion
> > > > about
> > > > > custody. The court is usually required to consider the maturity
of
> > the
> > > > > child. The problem is most states also have child custody laws
that
> > > list
> > > > > the child's preference as only one of about a dozen factors for
the
> > > court
> > > > to
> > > > > consider.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my case, the court blew off the child's stated preference,
> refusing
> > > to
> > > > > even hear directly from the child, and decided not to change
custody
> > > after
> > > > > considering all the "other" factors.
> > > >
> > > > Now that sounds like the courts.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem is the judges try to herd you through the system.
They
> > > don't
> > > > > want to take the time to really study a case and make an
appropriate
> > > > > decision. Instead, they use the "cookie cutter" approach and
> > disregard
> > > > the
> > > > > real issues a father might try to raise. Your best bet is to try
to
> > get
> > > > the
> > > > > judge to require a formal custody evaluation by local child
> > > psychologists.
> > > >
> > > > Ya right, if your a dad, don't expect a good out come,
> > > > child psychologists, use and play the feminist way, not favorable to
> > > > fathers, and besides, it's all witch craft, and it's a good way of
> > losing
> > > > what you have if your the man, in most cases those clowns always
seem
> to
> > > > come up with some ourlandish claim that dads are harmful to the
> > children,
> > > > therefore supervised access is put in order.
> > >
> > > My experience with gaining custody of my son was the result of a
> > > professional child psychologist supporting me as being able to provide
> an
> > > environment where he would do better.
> >
> > Gee that a first then, not heard of that much at all, but in Canada, I
can
> > tell you in most cases that go in front of the courts, it doesn't matter
> if
> > the fathers are good dads or not, or what professionals they hire.
> >
> > As it turns out, fathers in the majority of cases end up getting
shafted,
> > which leaves them with wasted money on witch craft psychologist.
> >
> > Having spent twelve years in the legal system I can tell you, your kind
of
> > case is rare, that is if the mother didn't fight you for custody, or she
> > just gave you the kids, or she died, or as it just turns out she just to
> > drugged out to even take care of a pet, let alone take care of a child.
> >
> > It well know that professional child psychologist are not going to win
the
> > day for fathers in a feminist court system, and I make that known up
> front,
> > so not to give men the false hope of succeeding in their cases.
> >
> > You should be thankful you didn't lose but then you never said anything
> > about the mother and why it was she lost the children.
>
> You are missing my point that an effective way for a father to gain
custody
> is to get it done outside of the legal system and not leave it up to the
> court or court appointed county payroll child psychologists to pass
> judgement.

That's bull****, it still has to go to court, either way, unless both partys
agree not to, and even then, if the women changes her mind, it doesn't
matter what was agreed too, she still can take it too court.

I have seen real good reports for fathers, and agreements terminated, for
dads and been tossed out in the supreme courts, using this child
psychologist witch craft, because the feminist courts don't give one ****
either way, as long as women are heard.

All the emotional leftwing crap works better for women in the courts then
common sense including fathers using child psychologist and their witch
craft.

You might have been able to convince your ex, but it doesn't work all the
time or I should say rarely as most women would fight tooth and nail to get
their children.

In the U.S. most medical insurance covers psychological
> counseling up to a lifetime dollar limit. About 8-10 counseling sessions
at
> about $75 each and reimbursed at 80% is not a very big cash outlay.

Well tell you what, you can bull**** all these dads that come here, with all
this hope message crap, but in the real world, it doesn't work all that
great for dads.

You were just, "one of the few lucky ones", who got his kids.

I have to say, it does sound like your trying to boost business for child
psychologist and their witch craft.