A Good Man

[chillin']

Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
about "sex" and "money"?


Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003

Guest Column by Harvey Yoder

Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
asked
what they thought society's perceptions were of males.

They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
negative stereotypes.

We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
focusing
on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
become
addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
good
qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
of
person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
else."

That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
of
person you are. But what is that kind of person like?

For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
He
treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
interests
and feelings other than about sex.

A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
do
with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
dependable
than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
giving
than about getting.

A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
someone
to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
every part of his life.

A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
dangerously
addictive and downright harmful to relationships.

A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
not
just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
sees
sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
one
man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
course,
for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.

A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
honors
that promise.

A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
a
good man really possible?

Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
created
each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
fail,
as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
honestly.
We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
the same kind of mistakes over and over again.

As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
that
constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.

The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
on
one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."

Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
men.
And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

[Mel Gamble]

Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those same
people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into something
which acts more like a girl.

Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls and
women as being "wrong".

>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
>about "sex" and "money"?
>
>
>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>
>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>
>Macho.

*************************************
>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
*************************************
I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure found in a
lot of women.

>Obsessed with sex.

Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as many
men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?

>These were
>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
>asked
>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.

Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a very
small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.

>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
>negative stereotypes.
>
>We men do often behave badly.

Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose definitions?

>We leer at women,

Which harms who???

>demean them by
>focusing
>on their body parts,

Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.

>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
>abandon them.

???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???

>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
>become
>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
>men to moral adolescents.

And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for women. AND
women are also it's customers.

>I'll never forget the advice an older high
>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.

Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" women to
pick from.

>"So start by listing the
>good
>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
>of
>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
>else."
>
>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
>of
>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>
>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.

But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown a
total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?

>He
>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
>mother or sister.

Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
respectfully...

>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,

Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...

>and with
>interests
>and feelings other than about sex.
>
>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
>do
>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
>dependable
>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
>giving
>than about getting.

And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
.................

>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
>someone
>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
>every part of his life.

"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."

>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
>dangerously
>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.

Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what she's
willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy may be
better than HER reality.

>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,

Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH human
being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
bitchin' about???? : )

>not
>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
>sees
>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting

Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
************************************************** ************************
******
>one
>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
>course,
>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
************************************************** ************************
******
.... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the kind.

>
>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
>honors
>that promise.

Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the restraining
order - served on him while he's away at work.

>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.

Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the phrase
"knowledge is power".

>He takes a strong interest in
>his children

....if allowed...

>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
>needs.

If allowed...otherwise he just pays.

>They are always a number one priority in his life.

Whether they are *IN* his life or not.

>But is being
>a
>good man really possible?

Only so long a woman allows it.

>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
>created
>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.

That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can allow us
to become...or not.

>And when we
>fail,
>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
>honestly.
>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.

Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.

>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
>that
>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>
>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
>on
>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>
>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
>men.
>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

Dream on amigo.

Mel Gamble

[Mel Gamble]

Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those same
people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into something
which acts more like a girl.

Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls and
women as being "wrong".

>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
>about "sex" and "money"?
>
>
>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>
>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>
>Macho.

*************************************
>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
*************************************
I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure found in a
lot of women.

>Obsessed with sex.

Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as many
men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?

>These were
>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
>asked
>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.

Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a very
small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.

>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
>negative stereotypes.
>
>We men do often behave badly.

Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose definitions?

>We leer at women,

Which harms who???

>demean them by
>focusing
>on their body parts,

Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.

>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
>abandon them.

???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???

>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
>become
>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
>men to moral adolescents.

And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for women. AND
women are also it's customers.

>I'll never forget the advice an older high
>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.

Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" women to
pick from.

>"So start by listing the
>good
>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
>of
>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
>else."
>
>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
>of
>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>
>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.

But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown a
total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?

>He
>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
>mother or sister.

Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
respectfully...

>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,

Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...

>and with
>interests
>and feelings other than about sex.
>
>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
>do
>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
>dependable
>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
>giving
>than about getting.

And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
.................

>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
>someone
>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
>every part of his life.

"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."

>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
>dangerously
>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.

Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what she's
willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy may be
better than HER reality.

>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,

Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH human
being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
bitchin' about???? : )

>not
>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
>sees
>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting

Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
************************************************** ************************
******
>one
>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
>course,
>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
************************************************** ************************
******
.... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the kind.

>
>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
>honors
>that promise.

Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the restraining
order - served on him while he's away at work.

>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.

Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the phrase
"knowledge is power".

>He takes a strong interest in
>his children

....if allowed...

>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
>needs.

If allowed...otherwise he just pays.

>They are always a number one priority in his life.

Whether they are *IN* his life or not.

>But is being
>a
>good man really possible?

Only so long a woman allows it.

>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
>created
>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.

That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can allow us
to become...or not.

>And when we
>fail,
>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
>honestly.
>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.

Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.

>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
>that
>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>
>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
>on
>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>
>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
>men.
>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

Dream on amigo.

Mel Gamble

[J.D. Hoeye]

On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:

>Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined =
by
>people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those =
same
>people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into =
something
>which acts more like a girl.
>
>Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls =
and
>women as being "wrong".

maybe? try past time...
not to be confused with passing time=20

on the other hand, 'good man' speaks to how anyone, regardless of
gender, treats those they love. and assumes the treatment is
reciprocated in kind (returned, not out of kindness but naturally) -
including emotionally (men and women are different, political equality
not withstanding, particularly emotionally.)=20

i for one am tired of accommodating female mental and emotional needs
while my own mental and emotional needs are ignored, trampled and at
times intentionally chastised.

there are two, companion books, by Robert H. Loeb,=20
He Manners and She Manners
the titles should make the subject matter clear without any further
description.=20

my sisters, my brother and i know the directions and advise contained
therein works while at the same time allowing men and women be exactly
what they are, men and women.
--
JD
--

>>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
>>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
>>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
>>about "sex" and "money"?
>>
>>
>>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>>
>>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>>
>>Macho.=20
>
>*************************************
>>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.=20
>*************************************
>I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure =
found in a
>lot of women.
>
>>Obsessed with sex.=20
>
>Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as =
many
>men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?
>
>>These were
>>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
>>asked
>>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
>
>Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a=
very
>small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.
>
>>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
>>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
>>negative stereotypes.
>>
>>We men do often behave badly.=20
>
>Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose =
definitions?
>
>>We leer at women,=20
>
>Which harms who???
>
>>demean them by
>>focusing
>>on their body parts,=20
>
>Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.
>
>>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
>>abandon them.=20
>
>???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???
>
>>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
>>become
>>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
>>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
>>men to moral adolescents.=20
>
>And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for =
women. AND
>women are also it's customers.
>
>>I'll never forget the advice an older high
>>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
>>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.=20
>
>Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" =
women to
>pick from.
>
>>"So start by listing the
>>good
>>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
>>of
>>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
>>else."
>>
>>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
>>of
>>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>>
>>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
>
>But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have =
shown a
>total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?
>
>>He
>>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
>>mother or sister.=20
>
>Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
>respectfully...
>
>>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
>>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,=20
>
>Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...
>
>>and with
>>interests
>>and feelings other than about sex.
>>
>>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
>>do
>>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
>>dependable
>>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
>>giving
>>than about getting.
>
>And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, =
and
>giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and =
giving,
>and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
>................
>
>>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
>>someone
>>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
>>every part of his life.
>
>"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."
>
>>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
>>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
>>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
>>dangerously
>>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
>
>Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what =
she's
>willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy=
may be
>better than HER reality.
>
>>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
>
>Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH =
human
>being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
>bitchin' about???? : )
>
>>not
>>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
>>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
>>sees
>>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
>
>Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
>************************************************** **********************=
**
>******
>>one
>>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
>>course,
>>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>************************************************** **********************=
**
>******
>... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the =
kind.
>
>>
>>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
>>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
>>honors
>>that promise.
>
>Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the =
restraining
>order - served on him while he's away at work.
>
>>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.=20
>
>Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the =
phrase
>"knowledge is power".
>
>>He takes a strong interest in
>>his children=20
>
>...if allowed...
>
>>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
>>needs.=20
>
>If allowed...otherwise he just pays.
>
>>They are always a number one priority in his life.=20
>
>Whether they are *IN* his life or not.
>
>>But is being
>>a
>>good man really possible?
>
>Only so long a woman allows it.
>
>>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
>>created
>>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.=20
>
>That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can =
allow us
>to become...or not.
>
>>And when we
>>fail,
>>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
>>honestly.
>>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
>>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
>
>Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.
>
>>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
>>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
>>that
>>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>>
>>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
>>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
>>on
>>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
>>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>>
>>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
>>men.
>>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
>
>Dream on amigo.
>
>Mel Gamble
>
>

[J.D. Hoeye]

On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:

>Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined =
by
>people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those =
same
>people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into =
something
>which acts more like a girl.
>
>Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls =
and
>women as being "wrong".

maybe? try past time...
not to be confused with passing time=20

on the other hand, 'good man' speaks to how anyone, regardless of
gender, treats those they love. and assumes the treatment is
reciprocated in kind (returned, not out of kindness but naturally) -
including emotionally (men and women are different, political equality
not withstanding, particularly emotionally.)=20

i for one am tired of accommodating female mental and emotional needs
while my own mental and emotional needs are ignored, trampled and at
times intentionally chastised.

there are two, companion books, by Robert H. Loeb,=20
He Manners and She Manners
the titles should make the subject matter clear without any further
description.=20

my sisters, my brother and i know the directions and advise contained
therein works while at the same time allowing men and women be exactly
what they are, men and women.
--
JD
--

>>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
>>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
>>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
>>about "sex" and "money"?
>>
>>
>>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>>
>>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>>
>>Macho.=20
>
>*************************************
>>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.=20
>*************************************
>I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure =
found in a
>lot of women.
>
>>Obsessed with sex.=20
>
>Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as =
many
>men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?
>
>>These were
>>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
>>asked
>>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
>
>Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a=
very
>small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.
>
>>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
>>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
>>negative stereotypes.
>>
>>We men do often behave badly.=20
>
>Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose =
definitions?
>
>>We leer at women,=20
>
>Which harms who???
>
>>demean them by
>>focusing
>>on their body parts,=20
>
>Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.
>
>>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
>>abandon them.=20
>
>???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???
>
>>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
>>become
>>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
>>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
>>men to moral adolescents.=20
>
>And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for =
women. AND
>women are also it's customers.
>
>>I'll never forget the advice an older high
>>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
>>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.=20
>
>Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" =
women to
>pick from.
>
>>"So start by listing the
>>good
>>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
>>of
>>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
>>else."
>>
>>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
>>of
>>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>>
>>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
>
>But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have =
shown a
>total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?
>
>>He
>>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
>>mother or sister.=20
>
>Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
>respectfully...
>
>>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
>>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,=20
>
>Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...
>
>>and with
>>interests
>>and feelings other than about sex.
>>
>>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
>>do
>>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
>>dependable
>>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
>>giving
>>than about getting.
>
>And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, =
and
>giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and =
giving,
>and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
>................
>
>>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
>>someone
>>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
>>every part of his life.
>
>"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."
>
>>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
>>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
>>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
>>dangerously
>>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
>
>Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what =
she's
>willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy=
may be
>better than HER reality.
>
>>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
>
>Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH =
human
>being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
>bitchin' about???? : )
>
>>not
>>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
>>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
>>sees
>>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
>
>Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
>************************************************** **********************=
**
>******
>>one
>>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
>>course,
>>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>************************************************** **********************=
**
>******
>... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the =
kind.
>
>>
>>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
>>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
>>honors
>>that promise.
>
>Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the =
restraining
>order - served on him while he's away at work.
>
>>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.=20
>
>Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the =
phrase
>"knowledge is power".
>
>>He takes a strong interest in
>>his children=20
>
>...if allowed...
>
>>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
>>needs.=20
>
>If allowed...otherwise he just pays.
>
>>They are always a number one priority in his life.=20
>
>Whether they are *IN* his life or not.
>
>>But is being
>>a
>>good man really possible?
>
>Only so long a woman allows it.
>
>>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
>>created
>>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.=20
>
>That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can =
allow us
>to become...or not.
>
>>And when we
>>fail,
>>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
>>honestly.
>>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
>>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
>
>Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.
>
>>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
>>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
>>that
>>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>>
>>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
>>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
>>on
>>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
>>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>>
>>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
>>men.
>>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
>
>Dream on amigo.
>
>Mel Gamble
>
>

[Me]

On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:

>Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
>people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those same
>people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into something
>which acts more like a girl.
>
>Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls and
>women as being "wrong".
>
>>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
>>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
>>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
>>about "sex" and "money"?

Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.


>>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>>
>>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>>
>>Macho.
>
>*************************************
>>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
>*************************************
>I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure found in a
>lot of women.
>
>>Obsessed with sex.
>
>Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as many
>men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?
>
>>These were
>>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
>>asked
>>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
>
>Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a very
>small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.
>
>>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
>>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
>>negative stereotypes.
>>
>>We men do often behave badly.
>
>Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose definitions?
>
>>We leer at women,
>
>Which harms who???
>
>>demean them by
>>focusing
>>on their body parts,
>
>Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.
>
>>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
>>abandon them.
>
>???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???
>
>>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
>>become
>>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
>>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
>>men to moral adolescents.
>
>And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for women. AND
>women are also it's customers.
>
>>I'll never forget the advice an older high
>>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
>>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.
>
>Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" women to
>pick from.
>
>>"So start by listing the
>>good
>>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
>>of
>>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
>>else."
>>
>>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
>>of
>>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>>
>>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
>
>But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown a
>total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?
>
>>He
>>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
>>mother or sister.
>
>Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
>respectfully...
>
>>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
>>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,
>
>Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...
>
>>and with
>>interests
>>and feelings other than about sex.
>>
>>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
>>do
>>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
>>dependable
>>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
>>giving
>>than about getting.
>
>And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
>giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
>and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
>................
>
>>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
>>someone
>>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
>>every part of his life.
>
>"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."
>
>>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
>>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
>>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
>>dangerously
>>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
>
>Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what she's
>willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy may be
>better than HER reality.
>
>>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
>
>Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH human
>being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
>bitchin' about???? : )
>
>>not
>>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
>>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
>>sees
>>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
>
>Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
>************************************************** ************************
>******
>>one
>>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
>>course,
>>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>************************************************** ************************
>******
>... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the kind.
>
>>
>>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
>>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
>>honors
>>that promise.
>
>Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the restraining
>order - served on him while he's away at work.
>
>>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.
>
>Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the phrase
>"knowledge is power".
>
>>He takes a strong interest in
>>his children
>
>...if allowed...
>
>>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
>>needs.
>
>If allowed...otherwise he just pays.
>
>>They are always a number one priority in his life.
>
>Whether they are *IN* his life or not.
>
>>But is being
>>a
>>good man really possible?
>
>Only so long a woman allows it.
>
>>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
>>created
>>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.
>
>That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can allow us
>to become...or not.
>
>>And when we
>>fail,
>>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
>>honestly.
>>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
>>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
>
>Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.
>
>>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
>>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
>>that
>>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>>
>>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
>>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
>>on
>>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
>>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>>
>>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
>>men.
>>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
>
>Dream on amigo.
>
>Mel Gamble
>
>

[Me]

On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:

>Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
>people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those same
>people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into something
>which acts more like a girl.
>
>Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls and
>women as being "wrong".
>
>>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
>>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
>>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
>>about "sex" and "money"?

Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.


>>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>>
>>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>>
>>Macho.
>
>*************************************
>>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
>*************************************
>I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure found in a
>lot of women.
>
>>Obsessed with sex.
>
>Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as many
>men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?
>
>>These were
>>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
>>asked
>>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
>
>Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a very
>small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.
>
>>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
>>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
>>negative stereotypes.
>>
>>We men do often behave badly.
>
>Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose definitions?
>
>>We leer at women,
>
>Which harms who???
>
>>demean them by
>>focusing
>>on their body parts,
>
>Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.
>
>>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
>>abandon them.
>
>???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???
>
>>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
>>become
>>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
>>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
>>men to moral adolescents.
>
>And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for women. AND
>women are also it's customers.
>
>>I'll never forget the advice an older high
>>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
>>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.
>
>Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" women to
>pick from.
>
>>"So start by listing the
>>good
>>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
>>of
>>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
>>else."
>>
>>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
>>of
>>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>>
>>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
>
>But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown a
>total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?
>
>>He
>>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
>>mother or sister.
>
>Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
>respectfully...
>
>>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
>>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,
>
>Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...
>
>>and with
>>interests
>>and feelings other than about sex.
>>
>>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
>>do
>>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
>>dependable
>>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
>>giving
>>than about getting.
>
>And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
>giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
>and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
>................
>
>>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
>>someone
>>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
>>every part of his life.
>
>"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."
>
>>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
>>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
>>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
>>dangerously
>>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
>
>Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what she's
>willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy may be
>better than HER reality.
>
>>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
>
>Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH human
>being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
>bitchin' about???? : )
>
>>not
>>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
>>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
>>sees
>>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
>
>Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
>************************************************** ************************
>******
>>one
>>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
>>course,
>>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>************************************************** ************************
>******
>... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the kind.
>
>>
>>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
>>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
>>honors
>>that promise.
>
>Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the restraining
>order - served on him while he's away at work.
>
>>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.
>
>Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the phrase
>"knowledge is power".
>
>>He takes a strong interest in
>>his children
>
>...if allowed...
>
>>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
>>needs.
>
>If allowed...otherwise he just pays.
>
>>They are always a number one priority in his life.
>
>Whether they are *IN* his life or not.
>
>>But is being
>>a
>>good man really possible?
>
>Only so long a woman allows it.
>
>>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
>>created
>>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.
>
>That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can allow us
>to become...or not.
>
>>And when we
>>fail,
>>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
>>honestly.
>>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
>>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
>
>Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.
>
>>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
>>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
>>that
>>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>>
>>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
>>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
>>on
>>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
>>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>>
>>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
>>men.
>>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
>
>Dream on amigo.
>
>Mel Gamble
>
>

[Dave]

Being a "real man" is a feminist code word for a man to be a obey them as a
loyal indentured servant without question.

"Me" > wrote in message
news.com...
> On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:
>
> >Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
> >people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those
same
> >people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into
something
> >which acts more like a girl.
> >
> >Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls
and
> >women as being "wrong".
> >
> >>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
> >>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
> >>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
> >>about "sex" and "money"?
>
> Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
> supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
> we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
> don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
> down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
> men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
> that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
> meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
> idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.
>
>
> >>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
> >>
> >>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
> >>
> >>Macho.
> >
> >*************************************
> >>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
> >*************************************
> >I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure
found in a
> >lot of women.
> >
> >>Obsessed with sex.
> >
> >Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as
many
> >men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?
> >
> >>These were
> >>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
> >>asked
> >>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
> >
> >Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a
very
> >small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.
> >
> >>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
> >>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
> >>negative stereotypes.
> >>
> >>We men do often behave badly.
> >
> >Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose
definitions?
> >
> >>We leer at women,
> >
> >Which harms who???
> >
> >>demean them by
> >>focusing
> >>on their body parts,
> >
> >Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.
> >
> >>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
> >>abandon them.
> >
> >???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???
> >
> >>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
> >>become
> >>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
> >>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
> >>men to moral adolescents.
> >
> >And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for
women. AND
> >women are also it's customers.
> >
> >>I'll never forget the advice an older high
> >>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
> >>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.
> >
> >Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good"
women to
> >pick from.
> >
> >>"So start by listing the
> >>good
> >>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
> >>of
> >>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
> >>else."
> >>
> >>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
> >>of
> >>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
> >>
> >>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
> >
> >But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown
a
> >total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?
> >
> >>He
> >>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
> >>mother or sister.
> >
> >Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
> >respectfully...
> >
> >>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
> >>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,
> >
> >Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...
> >
> >>and with
> >>interests
> >>and feelings other than about sex.
> >>
> >>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
> >>do
> >>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
> >>dependable
> >>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
> >>giving
> >>than about getting.
> >
> >And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
and
> >giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
giving,
> >and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
> >................
> >
> >>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
> >>someone
> >>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
> >>every part of his life.
> >
> >"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."
> >
> >>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
> >>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
> >>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
> >>dangerously
> >>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
> >
> >Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what
she's
> >willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy
may be
> >better than HER reality.
> >
> >>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
> >
> >Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH
human
> >being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
> >bitchin' about???? : )
> >
> >>not
> >>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
> >>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
> >>sees
> >>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
> >
> >Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
>
>************************************************** ************************
> >******
> >>one
> >>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
> >>course,
> >>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>
>************************************************** ************************
> >******
> >... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the
kind.
> >
> >>
> >>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
> >>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
> >>honors
> >>that promise.
> >
> >Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the
restraining
> >order - served on him while he's away at work.
> >
> >>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.
> >
> >Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the
phrase
> >"knowledge is power".
> >
> >>He takes a strong interest in
> >>his children
> >
> >...if allowed...
> >
> >>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
> >>needs.
> >
> >If allowed...otherwise he just pays.
> >
> >>They are always a number one priority in his life.
> >
> >Whether they are *IN* his life or not.
> >
> >>But is being
> >>a
> >>good man really possible?
> >
> >Only so long a woman allows it.
> >
> >>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
> >>created
> >>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.
> >
> >That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can
allow us
> >to become...or not.
> >
> >>And when we
> >>fail,
> >>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
> >>honestly.
> >>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
> >>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
> >
> >Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.
> >
> >>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
> >>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
> >>that
> >>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
> >>
> >>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
> >>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
> >>on
> >>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
> >>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
> >>
> >>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
> >>men.
> >>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
> >
> >Dream on amigo.
> >
> >Mel Gamble
> >
> >
>

[Dave]

Being a "real man" is a feminist code word for a man to be a obey them as a
loyal indentured servant without question.

"Me" > wrote in message
news.com...
> On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:
>
> >Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
> >people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those
same
> >people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into
something
> >which acts more like a girl.
> >
> >Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls
and
> >women as being "wrong".
> >
> >>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
> >>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
> >>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
> >>about "sex" and "money"?
>
> Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
> supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
> we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
> don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
> down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
> men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
> that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
> meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
> idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.
>
>
> >>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
> >>
> >>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
> >>
> >>Macho.
> >
> >*************************************
> >>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
> >*************************************
> >I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure
found in a
> >lot of women.
> >
> >>Obsessed with sex.
> >
> >Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as
many
> >men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?
> >
> >>These were
> >>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
> >>asked
> >>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
> >
> >Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a
very
> >small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.
> >
> >>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
> >>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
> >>negative stereotypes.
> >>
> >>We men do often behave badly.
> >
> >Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose
definitions?
> >
> >>We leer at women,
> >
> >Which harms who???
> >
> >>demean them by
> >>focusing
> >>on their body parts,
> >
> >Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.
> >
> >>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
> >>abandon them.
> >
> >???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???
> >
> >>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
> >>become
> >>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
> >>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
> >>men to moral adolescents.
> >
> >And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for
women. AND
> >women are also it's customers.
> >
> >>I'll never forget the advice an older high
> >>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
> >>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.
> >
> >Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good"
women to
> >pick from.
> >
> >>"So start by listing the
> >>good
> >>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
> >>of
> >>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
> >>else."
> >>
> >>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
> >>of
> >>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
> >>
> >>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
> >
> >But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown
a
> >total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?
> >
> >>He
> >>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
> >>mother or sister.
> >
> >Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
> >respectfully...
> >
> >>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
> >>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,
> >
> >Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...
> >
> >>and with
> >>interests
> >>and feelings other than about sex.
> >>
> >>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
> >>do
> >>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
> >>dependable
> >>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
> >>giving
> >>than about getting.
> >
> >And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
and
> >giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
giving,
> >and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
> >................
> >
> >>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
> >>someone
> >>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
> >>every part of his life.
> >
> >"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."
> >
> >>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
> >>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
> >>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
> >>dangerously
> >>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
> >
> >Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what
she's
> >willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy
may be
> >better than HER reality.
> >
> >>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
> >
> >Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH
human
> >being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
> >bitchin' about???? : )
> >
> >>not
> >>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
> >>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
> >>sees
> >>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
> >
> >Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
>
>************************************************** ************************
> >******
> >>one
> >>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
> >>course,
> >>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>
>************************************************** ************************
> >******
> >... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the
kind.
> >
> >>
> >>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
> >>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
> >>honors
> >>that promise.
> >
> >Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the
restraining
> >order - served on him while he's away at work.
> >
> >>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.
> >
> >Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the
phrase
> >"knowledge is power".
> >
> >>He takes a strong interest in
> >>his children
> >
> >...if allowed...
> >
> >>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
> >>needs.
> >
> >If allowed...otherwise he just pays.
> >
> >>They are always a number one priority in his life.
> >
> >Whether they are *IN* his life or not.
> >
> >>But is being
> >>a
> >>good man really possible?
> >
> >Only so long a woman allows it.
> >
> >>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
> >>created
> >>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.
> >
> >That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can
allow us
> >to become...or not.
> >
> >>And when we
> >>fail,
> >>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
> >>honestly.
> >>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
> >>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
> >
> >Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.
> >
> >>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
> >>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
> >>that
> >>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
> >>
> >>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
> >>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
> >>on
> >>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
> >>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
> >>
> >>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
> >>men.
> >>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
> >
> >Dream on amigo.
> >
> >Mel Gamble
> >
> >
>

[Bob Whiteside]

"Dave" <Dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
...
> Being a "real man" is a feminist code word for a man to be a obey them as
a
> loyal indentured servant without question.

I always thought it meant agreeing with whatever a woman says even though
you know better - as in - "Honey, everyone knows that washing machines eat
men's socks." Because if a man presses a woman to own up to personal
responsibility the response will be a total breakdown of communication - as
in - "If you don't like the way I do the laundry, do it yourself."

[Bob Whiteside]

"Dave" <Dave@freedoms-door> wrote in message
...
> Being a "real man" is a feminist code word for a man to be a obey them as
a
> loyal indentured servant without question.

I always thought it meant agreeing with whatever a woman says even though
you know better - as in - "Honey, everyone knows that washing machines eat
men's socks." Because if a man presses a woman to own up to personal
responsibility the response will be a total breakdown of communication - as
in - "If you don't like the way I do the laundry, do it yourself."

[Mel Gamble]

It's like being a landlord and allowing prospective tenants to tell you what
you should include in a "furnished apartment". If you do that, a "furnished
apartment" will suddenly include a big-screen TV and home theater, a
well-stocked pantry and liquor cabinet, closets full of designer clothes, etc.

A furnished apartment is what it is - if you don't like, don't rent it : )

Mel Gamble

>On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:
>
>>Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
>>people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those same
>>people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into
>something
>>which acts more like a girl.
>>
>>Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls and
>>women as being "wrong".
>>
>>>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
>>>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
>>>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
>>>about "sex" and "money"?
>
>Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
>supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
>we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
>don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
>down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
>men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
>that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
>meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
>idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.
>
>
>>>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>>>
>>>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>>>
>>>Macho.
>>
>>*************************************
>>>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
>>*************************************
>>I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure found
>in a
>>lot of women.
>>
>>>Obsessed with sex.
>>
>>Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as many
>>men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?
>>
>>>These were
>>>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
>>>asked
>>>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
>>
>>Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a
>very
>>small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.
>>
>>>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
>>>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
>>>negative stereotypes.
>>>
>>>We men do often behave badly.
>>
>>Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose definitions?
>>
>>>We leer at women,
>>
>>Which harms who???
>>
>>>demean them by
>>>focusing
>>>on their body parts,
>>
>>Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.
>>
>>>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
>>>abandon them.
>>
>>???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???
>>
>>>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
>>>become
>>>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
>>>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
>>>men to moral adolescents.
>>
>>And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for women.
>AND
>>women are also it's customers.
>>
>>>I'll never forget the advice an older high
>>>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
>>>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.
>>
>>Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" women
>to
>>pick from.
>>
>>>"So start by listing the
>>>good
>>>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
>>>of
>>>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
>>>else."
>>>
>>>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
>>>of
>>>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>>>
>>>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
>>
>>But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown a
>>total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?
>>
>>>He
>>>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
>>>mother or sister.
>>
>>Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
>>respectfully...
>>
>>>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
>>>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,
>>
>>Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...
>>
>>>and with
>>>interests
>>>and feelings other than about sex.
>>>
>>>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
>>>do
>>>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
>>>dependable
>>>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
>>>giving
>>>than about getting.
>>
>>And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
>>giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
>giving,
>>and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
>>................
>>
>>>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
>>>someone
>>>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
>>>every part of his life.
>>
>>"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."
>>
>>>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
>>>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
>>>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
>>>dangerously
>>>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
>>
>>Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what she's
>>willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy may
>be
>>better than HER reality.
>>
>>>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
>>
>>Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH human
>>being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
>>bitchin' about???? : )
>>
>>>not
>>>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
>>>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
>>>sees
>>>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
>>
>>Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
>>************************************************** ************************
>>******
>>>one
>>>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
>>>course,
>>>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>>************************************************** ************************
>>******
>>... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the kind.
>>
>>>
>>>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
>>>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
>>>honors
>>>that promise.
>>
>>Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the restraining
>>order - served on him while he's away at work.
>>
>>>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.
>>
>>Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the
>phrase
>>"knowledge is power".
>>
>>>He takes a strong interest in
>>>his children
>>
>>...if allowed...
>>
>>>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
>>>needs.
>>
>>If allowed...otherwise he just pays.
>>
>>>They are always a number one priority in his life.
>>
>>Whether they are *IN* his life or not.
>>
>>>But is being
>>>a
>>>good man really possible?
>>
>>Only so long a woman allows it.
>>
>>>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
>>>created
>>>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.
>>
>>That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can allow
>us
>>to become...or not.
>>
>>>And when we
>>>fail,
>>>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
>>>honestly.
>>>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
>>>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
>>
>>Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.
>>
>>>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
>>>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
>>>that
>>>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>>>
>>>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
>>>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
>>>on
>>>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
>>>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>>>
>>>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
>>>men.
>>>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
>>
>>Dream on amigo.
>>
>>Mel Gamble

[Mel Gamble]

It's like being a landlord and allowing prospective tenants to tell you what
you should include in a "furnished apartment". If you do that, a "furnished
apartment" will suddenly include a big-screen TV and home theater, a
well-stocked pantry and liquor cabinet, closets full of designer clothes, etc.

A furnished apartment is what it is - if you don't like, don't rent it : )

Mel Gamble

>On 01 Sep 2003 08:08:56 GMT, (Mel Gamble) wrote:
>
>>Harvey seems to have been tricked into letting a "good man" be defined by
>>people with a vested interest in a certain definition. Just like those same
>>people define a "good" boy as a natural one who has been drugged into
>something
>>which acts more like a girl.
>>
>>Maybe it's time to start delcaring the characteristics of typical girls and
>>women as being "wrong".
>>
>>>Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
>>>relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
>>>good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
>>>about "sex" and "money"?
>
>Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
>supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
>we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
>don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
>down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
>men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
>that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
>meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
>idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.
>
>
>>>Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>>>
>>>Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>>>
>>>Macho.
>>
>>*************************************
>>>Crude. Insensitive. Controlling.
>>*************************************
>>I thought this was about men???? The above characteristics are sure found
>in a
>>lot of women.
>>
>>>Obsessed with sex.
>>
>>Is that worse than being obsessed with creating the desire for it in as many
>>men as possible and then laughing as you withhold it?
>>
>>>These were
>>>some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
>>>asked
>>>what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
>>
>>Unfortunately for society, it's perceptions of males are formulated by a
>very
>>small group with a big agenda and MUCH to much credibility.
>>
>>>They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
>>>time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
>>>negative stereotypes.
>>>
>>>We men do often behave badly.
>>
>>Ah, yes, but do we do so more often than women??? And by whose definitions?
>>
>>>We leer at women,
>>
>>Which harms who???
>>
>>>demean them by
>>>focusing
>>>on their body parts,
>>
>>Men don't focus on women's body parts nearly as often as women do.
>>
>>>and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
>>>abandon them.
>>
>>???? And women DON'T do the same...to men AND to each other???
>>
>>>And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
>>>become
>>>addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
>>>multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
>>>men to moral adolescents.
>>
>>And is often an industry run by women and making small fortunes for women.
>AND
>>women are also it's customers.
>>
>>>I'll never forget the advice an older high
>>>school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
>>>good man. It's as simple as that," he said.
>>
>>Unfortunately, this advice will do nothing to create a pool of "good" women
>to
>>pick from.
>>
>>>"So start by listing the
>>>good
>>>qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
>>>of
>>>person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
>>>else."
>>>
>>>That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
>>>of
>>>person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>>>
>>>For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
>>
>>But why should a person feel obligated to "respect" others who have shown a
>>total lack of respect for others or qualities deserving of respect?
>>
>>>He
>>>treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
>>>mother or sister.
>>
>>Which earns him frequent kicks in the groin by those women he treats so
>>respectfully...
>>
>>>That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
>>>bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds,
>>
>>Even when that is not the case??? Dumb...
>>
>>>and with
>>>interests
>>>and feelings other than about sex.
>>>
>>>A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
>>>do
>>>with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
>>>dependable
>>>than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
>>>giving
>>>than about getting.
>>
>>And giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
>>giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and
>giving,
>>and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving, and giving,
>>................
>>
>>>A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
>>>someone
>>>to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
>>>every part of his life.
>>
>>"If she kicks you while you're down...lick her boot."
>>
>>>A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
>>>endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
>>>him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
>>>dangerously
>>>addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
>>
>>Yeah. It's best to realise you are stuck with what you got and what she's
>>willing to give you...you must not be allowed to find out that a fantasy may
>be
>>better than HER reality.
>>
>>>A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
>>
>>Now HERE is a circular argument going off the track bigtime. If EACH human
>>being truly IS a "genuinely beautiful person"....what the hell is Harvey
>>bitchin' about???? : )
>>
>>>not
>>>just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
>>>child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
>>>sees
>>>sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
>>
>>Awww, poor ignorant Harvey:
>>************************************************** ************************
>>******
>>>one
>>>man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
>>>course,
>>>for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>>************************************************** ************************
>>******
>>... the folks he's trying to suck up to don't believe anything of the kind.
>>
>>>
>>>A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
>>>worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
>>>honors
>>>that promise.
>>
>>Right up to the point where she has the divorce papers - and the restraining
>>order - served on him while he's away at work.
>>
>>>A good man knows how to be a decent Dad.
>>
>>Whether he's allowed to be or not. A case truly putting the lie to the
>phrase
>>"knowledge is power".
>>
>>>He takes a strong interest in
>>>his children
>>
>>...if allowed...
>>
>>>and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
>>>needs.
>>
>>If allowed...otherwise he just pays.
>>
>>>They are always a number one priority in his life.
>>
>>Whether they are *IN* his life or not.
>>
>>>But is being
>>>a
>>>good man really possible?
>>
>>Only so long a woman allows it.
>>
>>>Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
>>>created
>>>each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become.
>>
>>That would be what God, the state, and the mothers of our children can allow
>us
>>to become...or not.
>>
>>>And when we
>>>fail,
>>>as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
>>>honestly.
>>>We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
>>>the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
>>
>>Whether we've actually made those mistakes or not.
>>
>>>As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
>>>but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
>>>that
>>>constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>>>
>>>The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
>>>and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
>>>on
>>>one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
>>>honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>>>
>>>Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
>>>men.
>>>And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
>>
>>Dream on amigo.
>>
>>Mel Gamble

[Father Drew]

Of course some men behave badley, including good men. This is true of
bother genders.

I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
place is because we appreciate the female body.

I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one who
can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to be
good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me how
I should behave.

-Drew

"chillin'" > wrote in message
om...
> Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
> relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
> good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
> about "sex" and "money"?
>
>
> Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>
> Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>
> Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
> some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
> asked
> what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
>
> They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
> time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
> negative stereotypes.
>
> We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
> focusing
> on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
> abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
> become
> addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
> multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
> men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
> school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
> good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
> good
> qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
> of
> person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
> else."
>
> That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
> of
> person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>
> For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
> He
> treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
> mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
> bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
> interests
> and feelings other than about sex.
>
> A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
> do
> with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
> dependable
> than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
> giving
> than about getting.
>
> A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
> someone
> to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
> every part of his life.
>
> A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
> endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
> him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
> dangerously
> addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
>
> A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
> not
> just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
> child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
> sees
> sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
> one
> man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
> course,
> for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>
> A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
> worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
> honors
> that promise.
>
> A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
> his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
> needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
> a
> good man really possible?
>
> Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
> created
> each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
> fail,
> as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
> honestly.
> We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
> the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
>
> As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
> but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
> that
> constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>
> The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
> and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
> on
> one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
> honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>
> Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
> men.
> And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

[Father Drew]

Of course some men behave badley, including good men. This is true of
bother genders.

I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
place is because we appreciate the female body.

I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one who
can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to be
good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me how
I should behave.

-Drew

"chillin'" > wrote in message
om...
> Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
> relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
> good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
> about "sex" and "money"?
>
>
> Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
>
> Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
>
> Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
> some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
> asked
> what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
>
> They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
> time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
> negative stereotypes.
>
> We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
> focusing
> on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
> abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
> become
> addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
> multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
> men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
> school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
> good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
> good
> qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
> of
> person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
> else."
>
> That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
> of
> person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
>
> For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
> He
> treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
> mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
> bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
> interests
> and feelings other than about sex.
>
> A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
> do
> with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
> dependable
> than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
> giving
> than about getting.
>
> A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
> someone
> to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
> every part of his life.
>
> A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
> endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
> him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
> dangerously
> addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
>
> A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
> not
> just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
> child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
> sees
> sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
> one
> man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
> course,
> for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
>
> A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
> worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
> honors
> that promise.
>
> A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
> his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
> needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
> a
> good man really possible?
>
> Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
> created
> each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
> fail,
> as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
> honestly.
> We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
> the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
>
> As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
> but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
> that
> constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
>
> The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
> and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
> on
> one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
> honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
>
> Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
> men.
> And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

[Steve]

Reminds me of a comic strip joke I saw years ago. It showed a woman
getting ready to go out to a night club. She put on fake eyelashes,
lots of make-up, put on hair extensions, put her double-D cup bra to
hold her breast implants, and so on. Her female room-mate enters and
asks her what she is doing. She responds that she is going out to
find herself a REAL man. :-P

Me > wrote in message . com>...
>
> Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
> supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
> we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
> don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
> down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
> men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
> that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
> meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
> idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.
>

[Steve]

Reminds me of a comic strip joke I saw years ago. It showed a woman
getting ready to go out to a night club. She put on fake eyelashes,
lots of make-up, put on hair extensions, put her double-D cup bra to
hold her breast implants, and so on. Her female room-mate enters and
asks her what she is doing. She responds that she is going out to
find herself a REAL man. :-P

Me > wrote in message . com>...
>
> Well I for one am sick of hearing women tell us what "real men" are
> supposed to be. They read off a laundry list of characteristics that
> we are supposed to have then tell us that we are not real men if we
> don't meet the test? NEWSFLASH! A real man is any average guy walking
> down the street. Some are good and some are bad but they are all real
> men. If anyone needs a course in what real men are, it's these women
> that try to tell us what they are. I'm no less of a man for not
> meeting your list than you are not a real woman for meeting some
> idealized version of womanhood that I dream up.
>

[Tracy]

"Father Drew" > wrote in message
news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
> Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true of
> bother genders.
>
> I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
> natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
> place is because we appreciate the female body.

My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural urge".
I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive is
normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and take a
look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both men and
women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't. My
boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a "girlie"
calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It isn't like
he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there, otherwise it
wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female that
exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman while I'm
around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.

Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy. Since
he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't exist. You
guys are nothing more than just other people. :)

I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes far
beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks <== that is for both
men and women too.


> I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one
who
> can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
> of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to
be
> good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me
how
> I should behave.

LOL - I hope so!



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***


>
> -Drew
>
> "chillin'" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
> > relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
> > good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
> > about "sex" and "money"?
> >
> >
> > Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
> >
> > Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
> >
> > Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
> > some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
> > asked
> > what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
> >
> > They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
> > time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
> > negative stereotypes.
> >
> > We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
> > focusing
> > on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
> > abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
> > become
> > addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
> > multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
> > men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
> > school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
> > good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
> > good
> > qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
> > of
> > person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
> > else."
> >
> > That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
> > of
> > person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
> >
> > For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
> > He
> > treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
> > mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
> > bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
> > interests
> > and feelings other than about sex.
> >
> > A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
> > do
> > with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
> > dependable
> > than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
> > giving
> > than about getting.
> >
> > A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
> > someone
> > to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
> > every part of his life.
> >
> > A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
> > endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
> > him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
> > dangerously
> > addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
> >
> > A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
> > not
> > just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
> > child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
> > sees
> > sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
> > one
> > man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
> > course,
> > for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
> >
> > A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
> > worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
> > honors
> > that promise.
> >
> > A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
> > his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
> > needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
> > a
> > good man really possible?
> >
> > Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
> > created
> > each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
> > fail,
> > as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
> > honestly.
> > We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
> > the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
> >
> > As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
> > but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
> > that
> > constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
> >
> > The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
> > and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
> > on
> > one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
> > honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
> >
> > Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
> > men.
> > And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
>
>

[Tracy]

"Father Drew" > wrote in message
news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
> Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true of
> bother genders.
>
> I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
> natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
> place is because we appreciate the female body.

My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural urge".
I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive is
normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and take a
look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both men and
women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't. My
boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a "girlie"
calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It isn't like
he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there, otherwise it
wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female that
exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman while I'm
around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.

Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy. Since
he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't exist. You
guys are nothing more than just other people. :)

I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes far
beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks <== that is for both
men and women too.


> I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one
who
> can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
> of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to
be
> good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me
how
> I should behave.

LOL - I hope so!



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***


>
> -Drew
>
> "chillin'" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
> > relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
> > good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
> > about "sex" and "money"?
> >
> >
> > Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
> >
> > Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
> >
> > Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
> > some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
> > asked
> > what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
> >
> > They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
> > time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
> > negative stereotypes.
> >
> > We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
> > focusing
> > on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
> > abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
> > become
> > addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
> > multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
> > men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
> > school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
> > good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
> > good
> > qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
> > of
> > person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
> > else."
> >
> > That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
> > of
> > person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
> >
> > For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
> > He
> > treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
> > mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
> > bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
> > interests
> > and feelings other than about sex.
> >
> > A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
> > do
> > with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
> > dependable
> > than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
> > giving
> > than about getting.
> >
> > A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
> > someone
> > to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
> > every part of his life.
> >
> > A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
> > endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
> > him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
> > dangerously
> > addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
> >
> > A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
> > not
> > just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
> > child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
> > sees
> > sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
> > one
> > man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
> > course,
> > for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
> >
> > A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
> > worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
> > honors
> > that promise.
> >
> > A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
> > his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
> > needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
> > a
> > good man really possible?
> >
> > Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
> > created
> > each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
> > fail,
> > as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
> > honestly.
> > We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
> > the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
> >
> > As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
> > but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
> > that
> > constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
> >
> > The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
> > and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
> > on
> > one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
> > honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
> >
> > Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
> > men.
> > And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.
>
>

[Tiffany]

Tracy > wrote in message
et...
> "Father Drew" > wrote in message
> news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
> > Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true of
> > bother genders.
> >
> > I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's
a
> > natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the
first
> > place is because we appreciate the female body.
>
> My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural urge".
> I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive is
> normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and take a
> look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both men
and
> women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't. My
> boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a
"girlie"
> calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It isn't
like
> he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there, otherwise it
> wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female
that
> exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman while
I'm
> around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.
>
> Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy. Since
> he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't exist.
You
> guys are nothing more than just other people. :)
>
> I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes far
> beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks <== that is for
both
> men and women too.
>
>
> > I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one
> who
> > can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and
ideas
> > of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe
to
> be
> > good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me
> how
> > I should behave.
>
> LOL - I hope so!
>
>
>
> Tracy


But what about a man who doesn't have that love of his life and resorts to
pornography to help him along in his self-pleasurement? Would you consider
that natural or unnatural? I have mixed feelings about pornography but this
isn't the place for that discussion. lol

T

[Tiffany]

Tracy > wrote in message
et...
> "Father Drew" > wrote in message
> news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
> > Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true of
> > bother genders.
> >
> > I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's
a
> > natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the
first
> > place is because we appreciate the female body.
>
> My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural urge".
> I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive is
> normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and take a
> look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both men
and
> women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't. My
> boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a
"girlie"
> calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It isn't
like
> he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there, otherwise it
> wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female
that
> exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman while
I'm
> around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.
>
> Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy. Since
> he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't exist.
You
> guys are nothing more than just other people. :)
>
> I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes far
> beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks <== that is for
both
> men and women too.
>
>
> > I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one
> who
> > can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and
ideas
> > of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe
to
> be
> > good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me
> how
> > I should behave.
>
> LOL - I hope so!
>
>
>
> Tracy


But what about a man who doesn't have that love of his life and resorts to
pornography to help him along in his self-pleasurement? Would you consider
that natural or unnatural? I have mixed feelings about pornography but this
isn't the place for that discussion. lol

T

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Tracy > wrote in message
> et...
> > "Father Drew" > wrote in message
> > news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
> > > Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true of
> > > bother genders.
> > >
> > > I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days?
It's
> a
> > > natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the
> first
> > > place is because we appreciate the female body.
> >
> > My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural
urge".
> > I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive is
> > normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and take
a
> > look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both men
> and
> > women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't. My
> > boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a
> "girlie"
> > calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It isn't
> like
> > he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there, otherwise
it
> > wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female
> that
> > exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman while
> I'm
> > around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.
> >
> > Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy. Since
> > he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't exist.
> You
> > guys are nothing more than just other people. :)
> >
> > I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes far
> > beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks <== that is for
> both
> > men and women too.
> >
> >
> > > I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only
one
> > who
> > > can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and
> ideas
> > > of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe
> to
> > be
> > > good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell
me
> > how
> > > I should behave.
> >
> > LOL - I hope so!
> >
> >
> >
> > Tracy
>
>
> But what about a man who doesn't have that love of his life and resorts to
> pornography to help him along in his self-pleasurement? Would you consider
> that natural or unnatural?

Neither... it is just him and part of his personality, and it isn't up to me
to make that judgment. Just like there are those who feel the need to
masturbate when they don't have someone in their life, then there are those
who don't. My opinion concerning them doing it doesn't mean anything. I
was merely commenting on if the act is a natural urge. Ironically my
boyfriend and I talked about porn, masturbation, and being without a current
someone... it was my boyfriend who told me he personally views it that you
don't do it - you wait for the real thing. Therefore, to him it isn't a
natural urge to view porn. It isn't natural to masturbate, etc... it *is*
natural to want to make love to that someone special.

I tend to view natural urges similar to an act of nature. It is something
which you can't control but have a desire for. An example would include a
parent catching their baby when baby is trying to learn how to walk and
starts to fall. It is hard for the parent to not reach out and catch their
baby, because we don't want our baby to hurt themselves. It is like we
don't have a choice... it is an instinct. Most parents react the same when
faced with their baby falling during those tender moments.

In my opinion it is stereotypical (if not sexist) to view that men have
natural urges for porn. It is almost like how some people view single women
and the women's *need* for sex toys. Some have them and some don't. Just
because society thrives on smut and dirt doesn't mean everyone does it,
needs it, or that it is an act of nature (natural).

We can talk about other stereotypical views too for both sexes. All of them
are just stereotypical B.S. The original post in this thread was so
stereotypical of women it wasn't even worth my time to respond, because all
you have to do is step back and view what type of women are attracted to the
"bad" guy instead of the norm. How does the song go? Dirty Laundry... it
sells news you know... we (society) thrives on it. If we spoke the truth on
what really is the norm, it would put us to sleep, because most already live
it and to us it isn't exciting or different - it isn't the green grass.
What we don't realize is that the green grass is really just painted. It
isn't real. It is fake. What is real is right in front of us and within
our reach... not to mention often times it is the most beautiful thing we
could ever want. We're just attracted to the fake, unreal, painted smut.

> I have mixed feelings about pornography but this
> isn't the place for that discussion. lol

You bad girl. :-p


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Tracy > wrote in message
> et...
> > "Father Drew" > wrote in message
> > news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
> > > Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true of
> > > bother genders.
> > >
> > > I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days?
It's
> a
> > > natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the
> first
> > > place is because we appreciate the female body.
> >
> > My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural
urge".
> > I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive is
> > normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and take
a
> > look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both men
> and
> > women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't. My
> > boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a
> "girlie"
> > calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It isn't
> like
> > he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there, otherwise
it
> > wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female
> that
> > exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman while
> I'm
> > around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.
> >
> > Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy. Since
> > he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't exist.
> You
> > guys are nothing more than just other people. :)
> >
> > I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes far
> > beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks <== that is for
> both
> > men and women too.
> >
> >
> > > I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only
one
> > who
> > > can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and
> ideas
> > > of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe
> to
> > be
> > > good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell
me
> > how
> > > I should behave.
> >
> > LOL - I hope so!
> >
> >
> >
> > Tracy
>
>
> But what about a man who doesn't have that love of his life and resorts to
> pornography to help him along in his self-pleasurement? Would you consider
> that natural or unnatural?

Neither... it is just him and part of his personality, and it isn't up to me
to make that judgment. Just like there are those who feel the need to
masturbate when they don't have someone in their life, then there are those
who don't. My opinion concerning them doing it doesn't mean anything. I
was merely commenting on if the act is a natural urge. Ironically my
boyfriend and I talked about porn, masturbation, and being without a current
someone... it was my boyfriend who told me he personally views it that you
don't do it - you wait for the real thing. Therefore, to him it isn't a
natural urge to view porn. It isn't natural to masturbate, etc... it *is*
natural to want to make love to that someone special.

I tend to view natural urges similar to an act of nature. It is something
which you can't control but have a desire for. An example would include a
parent catching their baby when baby is trying to learn how to walk and
starts to fall. It is hard for the parent to not reach out and catch their
baby, because we don't want our baby to hurt themselves. It is like we
don't have a choice... it is an instinct. Most parents react the same when
faced with their baby falling during those tender moments.

In my opinion it is stereotypical (if not sexist) to view that men have
natural urges for porn. It is almost like how some people view single women
and the women's *need* for sex toys. Some have them and some don't. Just
because society thrives on smut and dirt doesn't mean everyone does it,
needs it, or that it is an act of nature (natural).

We can talk about other stereotypical views too for both sexes. All of them
are just stereotypical B.S. The original post in this thread was so
stereotypical of women it wasn't even worth my time to respond, because all
you have to do is step back and view what type of women are attracted to the
"bad" guy instead of the norm. How does the song go? Dirty Laundry... it
sells news you know... we (society) thrives on it. If we spoke the truth on
what really is the norm, it would put us to sleep, because most already live
it and to us it isn't exciting or different - it isn't the green grass.
What we don't realize is that the green grass is really just painted. It
isn't real. It is fake. What is real is right in front of us and within
our reach... not to mention often times it is the most beautiful thing we
could ever want. We're just attracted to the fake, unreal, painted smut.

> I have mixed feelings about pornography but this
> isn't the place for that discussion. lol

You bad girl. :-p


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[gini52]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:%g96b.272186$cF.85099@rwcrnsc53...
...............................
If we spoke the truth on
> what really is the norm, it would put us to sleep, because most already
live
> it and to us it isn't exciting or different - it isn't the green grass.
> What we don't realize is that the green grass is really just painted. It
> isn't real. It is fake.
===
Say it ain't so!...Just when I figured out how to get over the fence
and back without getting caught. Sheesh. Is nothing sacred anymore?
Gini (Who actually has a very good man with no porn in the house. My
grandfather was
another matter, though. He kept his under his recliner-- And I have no idea
how I came to find that out.)
==
==

[gini52]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:%g96b.272186$cF.85099@rwcrnsc53...
...............................
If we spoke the truth on
> what really is the norm, it would put us to sleep, because most already
live
> it and to us it isn't exciting or different - it isn't the green grass.
> What we don't realize is that the green grass is really just painted. It
> isn't real. It is fake.
===
Say it ain't so!...Just when I figured out how to get over the fence
and back without getting caught. Sheesh. Is nothing sacred anymore?
Gini (Who actually has a very good man with no porn in the house. My
grandfather was
another matter, though. He kept his under his recliner-- And I have no idea
how I came to find that out.)
==
==

[Tiffany]

Tracy > wrote in message
news:%g96b.272186$cF.85099@rwcrnsc53...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Tracy > wrote in message
> > et...
> > > "Father Drew" > wrote in message
> > > news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
> > > > Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true
of
> > > > bother genders.
> > > >
> > > > I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days?
> It's
> > a
> > > > natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the
> > first
> > > > place is because we appreciate the female body.
> > >
> > > My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural
> urge".
> > > I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive
is
> > > normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and
take
> a
> > > look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both
men
> > and
> > > women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't.
My
> > > boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a
> > "girlie"
> > > calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It
isn't
> > like
> > > he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there,
otherwise
> it
> > > wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female
> > that
> > > exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman
while
> > I'm
> > > around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.
> > >
> > > Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy.
Since
> > > he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't
exist.
> > You
> > > guys are nothing more than just other people. :)
> > >
> > > I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes
far
> > > beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks <== that is for
> > both
> > > men and women too.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only
> one
> > > who
> > > > can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and
> > ideas
> > > > of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we
believe
> > to
> > > be
> > > > good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell
> me
> > > how
> > > > I should behave.
> > >
> > > LOL - I hope so!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tracy
> >
> >
> > But what about a man who doesn't have that love of his life and resorts
to
> > pornography to help him along in his self-pleasurement? Would you
consider
> > that natural or unnatural?
>
> Neither... it is just him and part of his personality, and it isn't up to
me
> to make that judgment. Just like there are those who feel the need to
> masturbate when they don't have someone in their life, then there are
those
> who don't. My opinion concerning them doing it doesn't mean anything. I
> was merely commenting on if the act is a natural urge. Ironically my
> boyfriend and I talked about porn, masturbation, and being without a
current
> someone... it was my boyfriend who told me he personally views it that you
> don't do it - you wait for the real thing. Therefore, to him it isn't a
> natural urge to view porn. It isn't natural to masturbate, etc... it *is*
> natural to want to make love to that someone special.
>
> I tend to view natural urges similar to an act of nature. It is something
> which you can't control but have a desire for. An example would include a
> parent catching their baby when baby is trying to learn how to walk and
> starts to fall. It is hard for the parent to not reach out and catch
their
> baby, because we don't want our baby to hurt themselves. It is like we
> don't have a choice... it is an instinct. Most parents react the same
when
> faced with their baby falling during those tender moments.
>
> In my opinion it is stereotypical (if not sexist) to view that men have
> natural urges for porn. It is almost like how some people view single
women
> and the women's *need* for sex toys. Some have them and some don't. Just
> because society thrives on smut and dirt doesn't mean everyone does it,
> needs it, or that it is an act of nature (natural).
>
> We can talk about other stereotypical views too for both sexes. All of
them
> are just stereotypical B.S. The original post in this thread was so
> stereotypical of women it wasn't even worth my time to respond, because
all
> you have to do is step back and view what type of women are attracted to
the
> "bad" guy instead of the norm. How does the song go? Dirty Laundry... it
> sells news you know... we (society) thrives on it. If we spoke the truth
on
> what really is the norm, it would put us to sleep, because most already
live
> it and to us it isn't exciting or different - it isn't the green grass.
> What we don't realize is that the green grass is really just painted. It
> isn't real. It is fake. What is real is right in front of us and within
> our reach... not to mention often times it is the most beautiful thing we
> could ever want. We're just attracted to the fake, unreal, painted smut.
>
> > I have mixed feelings about pornography but this
> > isn't the place for that discussion. lol
>
> You bad girl. :-p
>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~


I will be honest... I didn't read the original post as it wasn't something I
thought was worth my time. I only caught that short message from Father Drew
and your reply. You are right though, everyone is different. But what I have
heard folks say is that we talk of natural urges and whether or not is it
'moral' to act on them..... but some folks have urges that most would not
consider natural but are still urges to them so they deem them as natural.
It is all in the eye of the beholder. :)

[Tiffany]

Tracy > wrote in message
news:%g96b.272186$cF.85099@rwcrnsc53...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Tracy > wrote in message
> > et...
> > > "Father Drew" > wrote in message
> > > news:IhT5b.47001$nf3.32024@fed1read07...
> > > > Of course some men behave badly, including good men. This is true
of
> > > > bother genders.
> > > >
> > > > I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days?
> It's
> > a
> > > > natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the
> > first
> > > > place is because we appreciate the female body.
> > >
> > > My boyfriend would disagree with you that "pornography is a natural
> urge".
> > > I strongly believe the looking at something which we find attractive
is
> > > normal. That is for both genders. It isn't just men who stop and
take
> a
> > > look at someone of the opposite sex that they find attractive. Both
men
> > and
> > > women do it. But *pornography* being a natural urge - no it isn't.
My
> > > boyfriend does not go out of his way to view pornography. He has a
> > "girlie"
> > > calendar hanging in his garage, which I could careless about. It
isn't
> > like
> > > he is over there drooling, etc. His oldest son put it there,
otherwise
> it
> > > wouldn't exist. When I'm with my boyfriend I feel I'm the only female
> > that
> > > exists. I have never seen him look (check out, etc) another woman
while
> > I'm
> > > around. What I experience with my boyfriend is extremely rare.
> > >
> > > Likewise - my boyfriend will never see me looking at another guy.
Since
> > > he's been in my life the rest of the men population just doesn't
exist.
> > You
> > > guys are nothing more than just other people. :)
> > >
> > > I guess the real difference is that to my boyfriend attraction goes
far
> > > beyond just looks. To some all it takes is just looks <== that is for
> > both
> > > men and women too.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only
> one
> > > who
> > > > can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and
> > ideas
> > > > of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we
believe
> > to
> > > be
> > > > good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell
> me
> > > how
> > > > I should behave.
> > >
> > > LOL - I hope so!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tracy
> >
> >
> > But what about a man who doesn't have that love of his life and resorts
to
> > pornography to help him along in his self-pleasurement? Would you
consider
> > that natural or unnatural?
>
> Neither... it is just him and part of his personality, and it isn't up to
me
> to make that judgment. Just like there are those who feel the need to
> masturbate when they don't have someone in their life, then there are
those
> who don't. My opinion concerning them doing it doesn't mean anything. I
> was merely commenting on if the act is a natural urge. Ironically my
> boyfriend and I talked about porn, masturbation, and being without a
current
> someone... it was my boyfriend who told me he personally views it that you
> don't do it - you wait for the real thing. Therefore, to him it isn't a
> natural urge to view porn. It isn't natural to masturbate, etc... it *is*
> natural to want to make love to that someone special.
>
> I tend to view natural urges similar to an act of nature. It is something
> which you can't control but have a desire for. An example would include a
> parent catching their baby when baby is trying to learn how to walk and
> starts to fall. It is hard for the parent to not reach out and catch
their
> baby, because we don't want our baby to hurt themselves. It is like we
> don't have a choice... it is an instinct. Most parents react the same
when
> faced with their baby falling during those tender moments.
>
> In my opinion it is stereotypical (if not sexist) to view that men have
> natural urges for porn. It is almost like how some people view single
women
> and the women's *need* for sex toys. Some have them and some don't. Just
> because society thrives on smut and dirt doesn't mean everyone does it,
> needs it, or that it is an act of nature (natural).
>
> We can talk about other stereotypical views too for both sexes. All of
them
> are just stereotypical B.S. The original post in this thread was so
> stereotypical of women it wasn't even worth my time to respond, because
all
> you have to do is step back and view what type of women are attracted to
the
> "bad" guy instead of the norm. How does the song go? Dirty Laundry... it
> sells news you know... we (society) thrives on it. If we spoke the truth
on
> what really is the norm, it would put us to sleep, because most already
live
> it and to us it isn't exciting or different - it isn't the green grass.
> What we don't realize is that the green grass is really just painted. It
> isn't real. It is fake. What is real is right in front of us and within
> our reach... not to mention often times it is the most beautiful thing we
> could ever want. We're just attracted to the fake, unreal, painted smut.
>
> > I have mixed feelings about pornography but this
> > isn't the place for that discussion. lol
>
> You bad girl. :-p
>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~


I will be honest... I didn't read the original post as it wasn't something I
thought was worth my time. I only caught that short message from Father Drew
and your reply. You are right though, everyone is different. But what I have
heard folks say is that we talk of natural urges and whether or not is it
'moral' to act on them..... but some folks have urges that most would not
consider natural but are still urges to them so they deem them as natural.
It is all in the eye of the beholder. :)

[Father Drew]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
> I will be honest... I didn't read the original post as it wasn't something
I
> thought was worth my time. I only caught that short message from Father
Drew
> and your reply. You are right though, everyone is different. But what I
have
> heard folks say is that we talk of natural urges and whether or not is it
> 'moral' to act on them..... but some folks have urges that most would not
> consider natural but are still urges to them so they deem them as natural.
> It is all in the eye of the beholder. :)

Sounds like we are caught up on symantics. What urge is not natural? If a
human (a natural being) has an urge, isn't it natural? Not that it matters,
cause it was really about being a good man anyway.

-Drew

[Father Drew]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
> I will be honest... I didn't read the original post as it wasn't something
I
> thought was worth my time. I only caught that short message from Father
Drew
> and your reply. You are right though, everyone is different. But what I
have
> heard folks say is that we talk of natural urges and whether or not is it
> 'moral' to act on them..... but some folks have urges that most would not
> consider natural but are still urges to them so they deem them as natural.
> It is all in the eye of the beholder. :)

Sounds like we are caught up on symantics. What urge is not natural? If a
human (a natural being) has an urge, isn't it natural? Not that it matters,
cause it was really about being a good man anyway.

-Drew

[Tiffany]

Father Drew > wrote in message
news:PJb6b.48498$nf3.39761@fed1read07...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I will be honest... I didn't read the original post as it wasn't
something
> I
> > thought was worth my time. I only caught that short message from Father
> Drew
> > and your reply. You are right though, everyone is different. But what I
> have
> > heard folks say is that we talk of natural urges and whether or not is
it
> > 'moral' to act on them..... but some folks have urges that most would
not
> > consider natural but are still urges to them so they deem them as
natural.
> > It is all in the eye of the beholder. :)
>
> Sounds like we are caught up on symantics. What urge is not natural? If
a
> human (a natural being) has an urge, isn't it natural? Not that it
matters,
> cause it was really about being a good man anyway.
>
> -Drew
>
>

Symantics yes which is why I didn't elaborate on it. But briefly, some men
have urges when they look at children..... is that natural? They will claim
they can't help themselves and all that horse****.

You are right, its all about being a good person.

T

[Tiffany]

Father Drew > wrote in message
news:PJb6b.48498$nf3.39761@fed1read07...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I will be honest... I didn't read the original post as it wasn't
something
> I
> > thought was worth my time. I only caught that short message from Father
> Drew
> > and your reply. You are right though, everyone is different. But what I
> have
> > heard folks say is that we talk of natural urges and whether or not is
it
> > 'moral' to act on them..... but some folks have urges that most would
not
> > consider natural but are still urges to them so they deem them as
natural.
> > It is all in the eye of the beholder. :)
>
> Sounds like we are caught up on symantics. What urge is not natural? If
a
> human (a natural being) has an urge, isn't it natural? Not that it
matters,
> cause it was really about being a good man anyway.
>
> -Drew
>
>

Symantics yes which is why I didn't elaborate on it. But briefly, some men
have urges when they look at children..... is that natural? They will claim
they can't help themselves and all that horse****.

You are right, its all about being a good person.

T

[Tracy]

"Father Drew" > wrote in message
news:oka6b.48347$nf3.17746@fed1read07...
> Hahaha. Oh Tracy. A guy told you he didn't spank it during his down time,
> and you bout that? It would only be true in 1 of 3 cases.
>
> 1.> His down time was under 3 days
> 2.> His equipment is broken
> 3.> He is a shoulin monk
>
> No offense to you and yours, cause I know you are real happy in your

"No offense"???? I do believe I know my boyfriend a hell of a lot better
than you. So are you telling this group you take matters into your own
hands at least every three days if you can't get a piece of ass?

My boyfriend doesn't lie to me - period. Since I've been talking to this
man, which is prior to us dating, he has been very honest. No matter how
painful his honesty has been, he has been honest. There is nothing wrong
with his equipment, etc.. and I won't go into all the details on how I know
he isn't lying. You need to stop and think. The man was depressed when his
ex-wife (the woman he practically worshiped for over 21 years) left him for
another man. She left in January of this year. Him and I started dating in
June. Going through the emotions of divorce, and an affair, takes a toll on
you... and maybe - just maybe - the last thing from his mind was his dick!
Prior to his ex he was in his late teens. Getting a piece of ass wasn't an
issue. So stop and think before you go around insulting someone you don't
know.

I don't care to personally know the details of other's sexual lives in this
group - but I'm sure there are plenty of men, and women, who understand what
my boyfriend went through. Therefore, they would understand that getting a
piece was high on the priority list. He had three kids to care for, he had
to get up and go to work, he had to somehow go on with his life, he begged
his ex to return a few times, plus a lot more.



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Father Drew" > wrote in message
news:oka6b.48347$nf3.17746@fed1read07...
> Hahaha. Oh Tracy. A guy told you he didn't spank it during his down time,
> and you bout that? It would only be true in 1 of 3 cases.
>
> 1.> His down time was under 3 days
> 2.> His equipment is broken
> 3.> He is a shoulin monk
>
> No offense to you and yours, cause I know you are real happy in your

"No offense"???? I do believe I know my boyfriend a hell of a lot better
than you. So are you telling this group you take matters into your own
hands at least every three days if you can't get a piece of ass?

My boyfriend doesn't lie to me - period. Since I've been talking to this
man, which is prior to us dating, he has been very honest. No matter how
painful his honesty has been, he has been honest. There is nothing wrong
with his equipment, etc.. and I won't go into all the details on how I know
he isn't lying. You need to stop and think. The man was depressed when his
ex-wife (the woman he practically worshiped for over 21 years) left him for
another man. She left in January of this year. Him and I started dating in
June. Going through the emotions of divorce, and an affair, takes a toll on
you... and maybe - just maybe - the last thing from his mind was his dick!
Prior to his ex he was in his late teens. Getting a piece of ass wasn't an
issue. So stop and think before you go around insulting someone you don't
know.

I don't care to personally know the details of other's sexual lives in this
group - but I'm sure there are plenty of men, and women, who understand what
my boyfriend went through. Therefore, they would understand that getting a
piece was high on the priority list. He had three kids to care for, he had
to get up and go to work, he had to somehow go on with his life, he begged
his ex to return a few times, plus a lot more.



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:%g96b.272186$cF.85099@rwcrnsc53...
> ..............................
> If we spoke the truth on
> > what really is the norm, it would put us to sleep, because most already
> live
> > it and to us it isn't exciting or different - it isn't the green grass.
> > What we don't realize is that the green grass is really just painted.
It
> > isn't real. It is fake.
> ===
> Say it ain't so!...Just when I figured out how to get over the fence
> and back without getting caught. Sheesh. Is nothing sacred anymore?

LOL - no, nothing is sacred anymore. :)


> Gini (Who actually has a very good man with no porn in the house. My
> grandfather was
> another matter, though. He kept his under his recliner-- And I have no
idea
> how I came to find that out.)

Good men are worth holding onto. I know mine is. Just like I know porn
will never be an issue in my household since my boyfriend isn't into it. :)

My legal father kept porn in his bedroom (stacks of it), and in his living
room. He didn't hide it either.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:%g96b.272186$cF.85099@rwcrnsc53...
> ..............................
> If we spoke the truth on
> > what really is the norm, it would put us to sleep, because most already
> live
> > it and to us it isn't exciting or different - it isn't the green grass.
> > What we don't realize is that the green grass is really just painted.
It
> > isn't real. It is fake.
> ===
> Say it ain't so!...Just when I figured out how to get over the fence
> and back without getting caught. Sheesh. Is nothing sacred anymore?

LOL - no, nothing is sacred anymore. :)


> Gini (Who actually has a very good man with no porn in the house. My
> grandfather was
> another matter, though. He kept his under his recliner-- And I have no
idea
> how I came to find that out.)

Good men are worth holding onto. I know mine is. Just like I know porn
will never be an issue in my household since my boyfriend isn't into it. :)

My legal father kept porn in his bedroom (stacks of it), and in his living
room. He didn't hide it either.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Tracy > wrote in message
> news:%g96b.272186$cF.85099@rwcrnsc53...
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
>
> I will be honest... I didn't read the original post as it wasn't something
I
> thought was worth my time. I only caught that short message from Father
Drew
> and your reply. You are right though, everyone is different. But what I
have
> heard folks say is that we talk of natural urges and whether or not is it
> 'moral' to act on them..... but some folks have urges that most would not
> consider natural but are still urges to them so they deem them as natural.
> It is all in the eye of the beholder. :)


I totally agree that it is in the eye of the beholder. :)

--
Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Tracy > wrote in message
> news:%g96b.272186$cF.85099@rwcrnsc53...
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
>
> I will be honest... I didn't read the original post as it wasn't something
I
> thought was worth my time. I only caught that short message from Father
Drew
> and your reply. You are right though, everyone is different. But what I
have
> heard folks say is that we talk of natural urges and whether or not is it
> 'moral' to act on them..... but some folks have urges that most would not
> consider natural but are still urges to them so they deem them as natural.
> It is all in the eye of the beholder. :)


I totally agree that it is in the eye of the beholder. :)

--
Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"AZ Astrea" > wrote in message
...
> warning top-posting
>
> Drew, that was my reaction also. And in the case of those 'monks', while
> they may not have 'spanked' it they do have nocturnal emmissions because
the
> URGE is natural and REQUIRES release.


Sometimes the urge is deemed sick and deserves punishment - as in those
whose urges are for children, or physically violent rape, plus others. Do
you feel those urges require release and is natural? I don't. If you
believe those sick urges can be controlled, then you should understand that
everyone has the capability of controlling their own sexual urges - no
matter how "un-natural" it may seem.

Let's say you are married, or in a serious relationship and living together.
You've been together for many many years. The woman is diagnosed with
cancer. She has surgery and starts treatment. Her treatment leaves her
feeling very sick and she is tired a lot. Do you feel it is okay for the
man to find someone else to go an release his urge? Do you honestly think
the man would even get horny after watching the woman he loves become sick
like that? "Yeah honey while you have your head in the toilet can you lift
it and take care of me?" Yeah right!

I know a couple who is in the early 60's. When she was in her mid-50's she
was diagnosed with breast cancer. She had both breast removed. Later she
went back and had more tissue removed. She went through many years of
treatment, and was sicker than a dog the whole time. Her husband did not
cheat on her. They didn't have sex. And yes - she shares that information.
In fact one of the things she loved about the man is his sex drive. Her
personal sex drive is low (to none), and he matched hers.

As it has been said before - everyone is different. People have different
sex drives and what turns them on. I personally question those who feel
they need it every few days. I question if they are capable of staying
within a long-term relationship (marriage or otherwise), because a large
amounts of sexual activity will not always happen.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"AZ Astrea" > wrote in message
...
> warning top-posting
>
> Drew, that was my reaction also. And in the case of those 'monks', while
> they may not have 'spanked' it they do have nocturnal emmissions because
the
> URGE is natural and REQUIRES release.


Sometimes the urge is deemed sick and deserves punishment - as in those
whose urges are for children, or physically violent rape, plus others. Do
you feel those urges require release and is natural? I don't. If you
believe those sick urges can be controlled, then you should understand that
everyone has the capability of controlling their own sexual urges - no
matter how "un-natural" it may seem.

Let's say you are married, or in a serious relationship and living together.
You've been together for many many years. The woman is diagnosed with
cancer. She has surgery and starts treatment. Her treatment leaves her
feeling very sick and she is tired a lot. Do you feel it is okay for the
man to find someone else to go an release his urge? Do you honestly think
the man would even get horny after watching the woman he loves become sick
like that? "Yeah honey while you have your head in the toilet can you lift
it and take care of me?" Yeah right!

I know a couple who is in the early 60's. When she was in her mid-50's she
was diagnosed with breast cancer. She had both breast removed. Later she
went back and had more tissue removed. She went through many years of
treatment, and was sicker than a dog the whole time. Her husband did not
cheat on her. They didn't have sex. And yes - she shares that information.
In fact one of the things she loved about the man is his sex drive. Her
personal sex drive is low (to none), and he matched hers.

As it has been said before - everyone is different. People have different
sex drives and what turns them on. I personally question those who feel
they need it every few days. I question if they are capable of staying
within a long-term relationship (marriage or otherwise), because a large
amounts of sexual activity will not always happen.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Kenneth S.]

A lady friend showed me this article several weeks, and I considered
e-mailing Harvey Yoder about it, but decided not to do so. Several
years ago I met him, and he's a good man himself. However,
unfortunately the perspective of this piece is badly skewed.

One important problem is that Yoder neglects the way in which, for
several decades, there has been a one-sided propaganda war going on
against men. That war is promoted by feminists, and one unfortunate
feature is that their picture of men, and the premises on which it is
based, are never challenged. There are no effective men's groups to
challenge the feminists, and the media -- which in the U.S. is totally
intimidated by feminists -- certainly isn't going to do so.

The first thing men in the U.S. need to do is to make it perfectly
clear that they are not going to try to meet the standards that
feminists want to set for them. The whole thing about pornography is
just a red herring, and is one of those weird situations where
conservative Christians, such as Harvey Yoder, have been suckered into
accepting the feminist point of view. One reason why the feminists play
up the pornography issue is that they think they've found something that
men like, but women don't. There are indications that the feminists are
wrong about this, just as they are wrong about other crimes that they
thought only men were guilty of, such as domestic violence.

Men aren't like women. They're wired up differently, and there are
good reasons why this is so, and why society benefits from male
characteristics that are seldom found in women. I think it's
unfortunate that Harvey Yoder has (1) endorsed the feminist view of
men's supposed defects, and (2) encouraged men to run around trying to
satisfy targets set by women, instead of asking WHY they should dance to
the feminist tune.

And what's wrong with leering at women? I don't mind if women leer at
me. Leer away, ladies, is what I say.

Relevant quotes: "Perfection is what American women expect to find in
their husbands... but English women only hope to find in their butlers."
(W. Somerset Maugham)
"It's better to be looked over than to be overlooked." (Mae West)

Father Drew wrote:
>
> Of course some men behave badley, including good men. This is true of
> bother genders.
>
> I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
> natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
> place is because we appreciate the female body.
>
> I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one who
> can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
> of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to be
> good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me how
> I should behave.
>
> -Drew
>
> "chillin'" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
> > relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
> > good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
> > about "sex" and "money"?
> >
> >
> > Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
> >
> > Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
> >
> > Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
> > some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
> > asked
> > what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
> >
> > They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
> > time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
> > negative stereotypes.
> >
> > We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
> > focusing
> > on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
> > abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
> > become
> > addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
> > multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
> > men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
> > school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
> > good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
> > good
> > qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
> > of
> > person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
> > else."
> >
> > That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
> > of
> > person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
> >
> > For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
> > He
> > treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
> > mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
> > bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
> > interests
> > and feelings other than about sex.
> >
> > A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
> > do
> > with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
> > dependable
> > than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
> > giving
> > than about getting.
> >
> > A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
> > someone
> > to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
> > every part of his life.
> >
> > A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
> > endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
> > him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
> > dangerously
> > addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
> >
> > A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
> > not
> > just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
> > child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
> > sees
> > sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
> > one
> > man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
> > course,
> > for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
> >
> > A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
> > worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
> > honors
> > that promise.
> >
> > A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
> > his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
> > needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
> > a
> > good man really possible?
> >
> > Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
> > created
> > each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
> > fail,
> > as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
> > honestly.
> > We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
> > the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
> >
> > As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
> > but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
> > that
> > constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
> >
> > The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
> > and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
> > on
> > one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
> > honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
> >
> > Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
> > men.
> > And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

[Kenneth S.]

A lady friend showed me this article several weeks, and I considered
e-mailing Harvey Yoder about it, but decided not to do so. Several
years ago I met him, and he's a good man himself. However,
unfortunately the perspective of this piece is badly skewed.

One important problem is that Yoder neglects the way in which, for
several decades, there has been a one-sided propaganda war going on
against men. That war is promoted by feminists, and one unfortunate
feature is that their picture of men, and the premises on which it is
based, are never challenged. There are no effective men's groups to
challenge the feminists, and the media -- which in the U.S. is totally
intimidated by feminists -- certainly isn't going to do so.

The first thing men in the U.S. need to do is to make it perfectly
clear that they are not going to try to meet the standards that
feminists want to set for them. The whole thing about pornography is
just a red herring, and is one of those weird situations where
conservative Christians, such as Harvey Yoder, have been suckered into
accepting the feminist point of view. One reason why the feminists play
up the pornography issue is that they think they've found something that
men like, but women don't. There are indications that the feminists are
wrong about this, just as they are wrong about other crimes that they
thought only men were guilty of, such as domestic violence.

Men aren't like women. They're wired up differently, and there are
good reasons why this is so, and why society benefits from male
characteristics that are seldom found in women. I think it's
unfortunate that Harvey Yoder has (1) endorsed the feminist view of
men's supposed defects, and (2) encouraged men to run around trying to
satisfy targets set by women, instead of asking WHY they should dance to
the feminist tune.

And what's wrong with leering at women? I don't mind if women leer at
me. Leer away, ladies, is what I say.

Relevant quotes: "Perfection is what American women expect to find in
their husbands... but English women only hope to find in their butlers."
(W. Somerset Maugham)
"It's better to be looked over than to be overlooked." (Mae West)

Father Drew wrote:
>
> Of course some men behave badley, including good men. This is true of
> bother genders.
>
> I have to ask though, does pornography make a man bad these days? It's a
> natural urge, guys are visual. The only reason we have kids in the first
> place is because we appreciate the female body.
>
> I could blow away the rest of the article, but in the end, the only one who
> can judge if you are good or not is you. We all have our morals and ideas
> of what is and is not acceptable, and if we live up to what we believe to be
> good, we are. I refuse to let a butch dike with a bad haircut tell me how
> I should behave.
>
> -Drew
>
> "chillin'" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Women! All those who feel as thought they have been wronged in a
> > relationship! What kind of man are YOU looking for? Are there any
> > good women out there who would search for a good man, or is it all
> > about "sex" and "money"?
> >
> >
> > Straight Talk: Men - August 11, 2003
> >
> > Guest Column by Harvey Yoder
> >
> > Macho. Crude. Insensitive. Controlling. Obsessed with sex. These were
> > some of the first responses I got at a recent men's seminar when I
> > asked
> > what they thought society's perceptions were of males.
> >
> > They agreed these unflattering labels weren't true of all men all the
> > time, but admitted that our gender had earned all too many of these
> > negative stereotypes.
> >
> > We men do often behave badly. We leer at women, demean them by
> > focusing
> > on their body parts, and have been known to sometimes use, abuse and
> > abandon them. And as the ultimate insult, more and more men have
> > become
> > addicted to pornography, have become regular supporters of a growing
> > multibillion industry that uses women as moral prostitutes and reduces
> > men to moral adolescents. I'll never forget the advice an older high
> > school teacher once gave: "If you want a good woman, you have to be a
> > good man. It's as simple as that," he said. "So start by listing the
> > good
> > qualities you are looking for, then concentrate on becoming that kind
> > of
> > person yourself, rather than just looking for those traits in someone
> > else."
> >
> > That sounds basic. Just be a good man. You can only deserve the kind
> > of
> > person you are. But what is that kind of person like?
> >
> > For starters, a good man shows a high level of respect--for everyone.
> > He
> > treats women the way he would have other men treat his own daughter,
> > mother or sister. That means seeing them not just as desirable, warm
> > bodies, but as precious human beings with real minds, and with
> > interests
> > and feelings other than about sex.
> >
> > A good man strives to be a good lover, but realizes love has more to
> > do
> > with being patient than being passionate, with being kind and
> > dependable
> > than just amorous in bed. A real man knows real love is more about
> > giving
> > than about getting.
> >
> > A good man is honest. An "I love you" is never used just to get
> > someone
> > to give him what he wants, but is matched by kind, caring behavior in
> > every part of his life.
> >
> > A good man doesn't indulge in pornographic fantasies of artificially
> > endowed models (anorexics with breast implants) dying to have sex with
> > him. He recognizes pornography use as not only infantile but
> > dangerously
> > addictive and downright harmful to relationships.
> >
> > A good man regards each human being as a genuinely beautiful person,
> > not
> > just for their physical shape or appearance, but for who they are as a
> > child of God, a unique individual of incomparable worth. A good man
> > sees
> > sex as a God-given gift meant not only for pleasure, but for uniting
> > one
> > man to one woman "for as long as they both shall live." And, of
> > course,
> > for creating children who can grow up in a stable, loving family.
> >
> > A good man honors his commitments. When he says "for better or for
> > worse," he means it. When he promises "until death do us part," he
> > honors
> > that promise.
> >
> > A good man knows how to be a decent Dad. He takes a strong interest in
> > his children and provides for their physical, emotional and spiritual
> > needs. They are always a number one priority in his life. But is being
> > a
> > good man really possible?
> >
> > Not perfectly, of course, and maybe not always, but it's what God
> > created
> > each of us to be, and what God can enable us to become. And when we
> > fail,
> > as we sometimes do, we are ready to admit it, immediately and
> > honestly.
> > We do whatever it takes to change and to do better, to avoid repeating
> > the same kind of mistakes over and over again.
> >
> > As an imperfect father of two young adult sons, each of them imperfect
> > but good men, and as a father-in-law of another one, I can only say
> > that
> > constantly working at this goal is worth all the effort it takes.
> >
> > The Bible tells the story of David, who when he had committed adultery
> > and then realized the awfulness of what he had done, cried out to God
> > on
> > one of the greatest prayers of repentance in the Bible (Psalm 51). God
> > honored him by calling him a "man after God's own heart."
> >
> > Likewise, God will love and bless us in our pursuit of becoming good
> > men.
> > And our wives, families and friends will forever thank us.

[Father Drew]

Did not mean to insult you Tracy. Of course I don't know your man better
than you being that I never met him. But anytime I hear some one claim they
can hold it in like that on will-power alone, I don't buy it. I would have
the same reaction if someone told me that they decided to quit urinating.
It's a medical fact, not a personal attack. What do you think would happen
to the swimmers if they were cooped up in there for say a year ot two while
John Doe was sexually in-active? It has to go somewhere. I can understand
a married person, or someone getting it on a regular basis, but someone with
the magical ability to transport cooked swimmers into thin air should have a
show in Vegas. It might just be difficult to relate too when you don't own
the gear, like I don't know how it feels to need to eat chocolate and cry
every 28 days.

I went out to validate and ran across a few interesting links on the topic
(although it's about time we OT this thread).

An interesting :What Are Men Thinking page. Kinda funny, some true, some
not.
http://www.egodriven.net/men/default.htm

The University of Chicago did a study on frequency in 1992. The running
joke is that 99% do and 1% lie, and it's the truth in the joke that made me
giggle at your post.
http://www.mypleasure.com/aboutus/pressarchive/honey_2002_10.pdf

A chart on frequency.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/xeyr/circum/mast.htm

Few findings from the janus Report, Playboy, and Alfred Kinksly.
http://www.jvibe.com/jvibrations/issue2/mword.shtml

-Drew

"Tracy" > wrote in message
et...
> "Father Drew" > wrote in message
> news:oka6b.48347$nf3.17746@fed1read07...
> > Hahaha. Oh Tracy. A guy told you he didn't spank it during his down
time,
> > and you bout that? It would only be true in 1 of 3 cases.
> >
> > 1.> His down time was under 3 days
> > 2.> His equipment is broken
> > 3.> He is a shoulin monk
> >
> > No offense to you and yours, cause I know you are real happy in your
>
> "No offense"???? I do believe I know my boyfriend a hell of a lot better
> than you. So are you telling this group you take matters into your own
> hands at least every three days if you can't get a piece of ass?
>
> My boyfriend doesn't lie to me - period. Since I've been talking to this
> man, which is prior to us dating, he has been very honest. No matter how
> painful his honesty has been, he has been honest. There is nothing wrong
> with his equipment, etc.. and I won't go into all the details on how I
know
> he isn't lying. You need to stop and think. The man was depressed when
his
> ex-wife (the woman he practically worshiped for over 21 years) left him
for
> another man. She left in January of this year. Him and I started dating
in
> June. Going through the emotions of divorce, and an affair, takes a toll
on
> you... and maybe - just maybe - the last thing from his mind was his dick!
> Prior to his ex he was in his late teens. Getting a piece of ass wasn't
an
> issue. So stop and think before you go around insulting someone you don't
> know.
>
> I don't care to personally know the details of other's sexual lives in
this
> group - but I'm sure there are plenty of men, and women, who understand
what
> my boyfriend went through. Therefore, they would understand that getting
a
> piece was high on the priority list. He had three kids to care for, he
had
> to get up and go to work, he had to somehow go on with his life, he begged
> his ex to return a few times, plus a lot more.
>
>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> "You can't solve problems with the same
> type of thinking that created them."
> Albert Einstein
>
> *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
>
>
>

[Father Drew]

Did not mean to insult you Tracy. Of course I don't know your man better
than you being that I never met him. But anytime I hear some one claim they
can hold it in like that on will-power alone, I don't buy it. I would have
the same reaction if someone told me that they decided to quit urinating.
It's a medical fact, not a personal attack. What do you think would happen
to the swimmers if they were cooped up in there for say a year ot two while
John Doe was sexually in-active? It has to go somewhere. I can understand
a married person, or someone getting it on a regular basis, but someone with
the magical ability to transport cooked swimmers into thin air should have a
show in Vegas. It might just be difficult to relate too when you don't own
the gear, like I don't know how it feels to need to eat chocolate and cry
every 28 days.

I went out to validate and ran across a few interesting links on the topic
(although it's about time we OT this thread).

An interesting :What Are Men Thinking page. Kinda funny, some true, some
not.
http://www.egodriven.net/men/default.htm

The University of Chicago did a study on frequency in 1992. The running
joke is that 99% do and 1% lie, and it's the truth in the joke that made me
giggle at your post.
http://www.mypleasure.com/aboutus/pressarchive/honey_2002_10.pdf

A chart on frequency.
http://users.bigpond.net.au/xeyr/circum/mast.htm

Few findings from the janus Report, Playboy, and Alfred Kinksly.
http://www.jvibe.com/jvibrations/issue2/mword.shtml

-Drew

"Tracy" > wrote in message
et...
> "Father Drew" > wrote in message
> news:oka6b.48347$nf3.17746@fed1read07...
> > Hahaha. Oh Tracy. A guy told you he didn't spank it during his down
time,
> > and you bout that? It would only be true in 1 of 3 cases.
> >
> > 1.> His down time was under 3 days
> > 2.> His equipment is broken
> > 3.> He is a shoulin monk
> >
> > No offense to you and yours, cause I know you are real happy in your
>
> "No offense"???? I do believe I know my boyfriend a hell of a lot better
> than you. So are you telling this group you take matters into your own
> hands at least every three days if you can't get a piece of ass?
>
> My boyfriend doesn't lie to me - period. Since I've been talking to this
> man, which is prior to us dating, he has been very honest. No matter how
> painful his honesty has been, he has been honest. There is nothing wrong
> with his equipment, etc.. and I won't go into all the details on how I
know
> he isn't lying. You need to stop and think. The man was depressed when
his
> ex-wife (the woman he practically worshiped for over 21 years) left him
for
> another man. She left in January of this year. Him and I started dating
in
> June. Going through the emotions of divorce, and an affair, takes a toll
on
> you... and maybe - just maybe - the last thing from his mind was his dick!
> Prior to his ex he was in his late teens. Getting a piece of ass wasn't
an
> issue. So stop and think before you go around insulting someone you don't
> know.
>
> I don't care to personally know the details of other's sexual lives in
this
> group - but I'm sure there are plenty of men, and women, who understand
what
> my boyfriend went through. Therefore, they would understand that getting
a
> piece was high on the priority list. He had three kids to care for, he
had
> to get up and go to work, he had to somehow go on with his life, he begged
> his ex to return a few times, plus a lot more.
>
>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> "You can't solve problems with the same
> type of thinking that created them."
> Albert Einstein
>
> *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
>
>
>

[Tiffany]

Father Drew > wrote in message
news:UxP6b.49458$nf3.24095@fed1read07...
> Did not mean to insult you Tracy. Of course I don't know your man better
> than you being that I never met him. But anytime I hear some one claim
they
> can hold it in like that on will-power alone, I don't buy it. I would
have
> the same reaction if someone told me that they decided to quit urinating.
> It's a medical fact, not a personal attack. What do you think would
happen
> to the swimmers if they were cooped up in there for say a year ot two
while
> John Doe was sexually in-active? It has to go somewhere. I can
understand
> a married person, or someone getting it on a regular basis, but someone
with
> the magical ability to transport cooked swimmers into thin air should have
a
> show in Vegas. It might just be difficult to relate too when you don't
own
> the gear, like I don't know how it feels to need to eat chocolate and cry
> every 28 days.
>
> I went out to validate and ran across a few interesting links on the topic
> (although it's about time we OT this thread).
>


Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men HAVE
to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was under
the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used by
young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will then
let this go as it is way OT. lol

T

[Tiffany]

Father Drew > wrote in message
news:UxP6b.49458$nf3.24095@fed1read07...
> Did not mean to insult you Tracy. Of course I don't know your man better
> than you being that I never met him. But anytime I hear some one claim
they
> can hold it in like that on will-power alone, I don't buy it. I would
have
> the same reaction if someone told me that they decided to quit urinating.
> It's a medical fact, not a personal attack. What do you think would
happen
> to the swimmers if they were cooped up in there for say a year ot two
while
> John Doe was sexually in-active? It has to go somewhere. I can
understand
> a married person, or someone getting it on a regular basis, but someone
with
> the magical ability to transport cooked swimmers into thin air should have
a
> show in Vegas. It might just be difficult to relate too when you don't
own
> the gear, like I don't know how it feels to need to eat chocolate and cry
> every 28 days.
>
> I went out to validate and ran across a few interesting links on the topic
> (although it's about time we OT this thread).
>


Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men HAVE
to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was under
the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used by
young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will then
let this go as it is way OT. lol

T

[Bob Whiteside]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Father Drew > wrote in message
> news:UxP6b.49458$nf3.24095@fed1read07...
> > Did not mean to insult you Tracy. Of course I don't know your man
better
> > than you being that I never met him. But anytime I hear some one claim
> they
> > can hold it in like that on will-power alone, I don't buy it. I would
> have
> > the same reaction if someone told me that they decided to quit
urinating.
> > It's a medical fact, not a personal attack. What do you think would
> happen
> > to the swimmers if they were cooped up in there for say a year ot two
> while
> > John Doe was sexually in-active? It has to go somewhere. I can
> understand
> > a married person, or someone getting it on a regular basis, but someone
> with
> > the magical ability to transport cooked swimmers into thin air should
have
> a
> > show in Vegas. It might just be difficult to relate too when you don't
> own
> > the gear, like I don't know how it feels to need to eat chocolate and
cry
> > every 28 days.
> >
> > I went out to validate and ran across a few interesting links on the
topic
> > (although it's about time we OT this thread).
> >
>
>
> Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men HAVE
> to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was under
> the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used
by
> young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will then
> let this go as it is way OT. lol

Anyone wanting more details on how men function sexually should get a copy
of The New Male Sexuality by Bernie Zilbergeld, Ph.D. It is the most
thorough and frequently cited source on male sexuality. And although most
women probably believe male sexuality is pretty simple to understand, the
book in paperback is 645 pages long.

Now to answer your question - the issue is not releasing "swimmers" and if
you want proof of that fact talk to any man who has had a vasectomy. What
actually occurs is a build up of fluids from the prostate, seminal vesicles,
and vas deferens which all contract pouring their contents into the urethra.
The sperm mix in and go along for the ride.

[Bob Whiteside]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Father Drew > wrote in message
> news:UxP6b.49458$nf3.24095@fed1read07...
> > Did not mean to insult you Tracy. Of course I don't know your man
better
> > than you being that I never met him. But anytime I hear some one claim
> they
> > can hold it in like that on will-power alone, I don't buy it. I would
> have
> > the same reaction if someone told me that they decided to quit
urinating.
> > It's a medical fact, not a personal attack. What do you think would
> happen
> > to the swimmers if they were cooped up in there for say a year ot two
> while
> > John Doe was sexually in-active? It has to go somewhere. I can
> understand
> > a married person, or someone getting it on a regular basis, but someone
> with
> > the magical ability to transport cooked swimmers into thin air should
have
> a
> > show in Vegas. It might just be difficult to relate too when you don't
> own
> > the gear, like I don't know how it feels to need to eat chocolate and
cry
> > every 28 days.
> >
> > I went out to validate and ran across a few interesting links on the
topic
> > (although it's about time we OT this thread).
> >
>
>
> Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men HAVE
> to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was under
> the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used
by
> young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will then
> let this go as it is way OT. lol

Anyone wanting more details on how men function sexually should get a copy
of The New Male Sexuality by Bernie Zilbergeld, Ph.D. It is the most
thorough and frequently cited source on male sexuality. And although most
women probably believe male sexuality is pretty simple to understand, the
book in paperback is 645 pages long.

Now to answer your question - the issue is not releasing "swimmers" and if
you want proof of that fact talk to any man who has had a vasectomy. What
actually occurs is a build up of fluids from the prostate, seminal vesicles,
and vas deferens which all contract pouring their contents into the urethra.
The sperm mix in and go along for the ride.

[Phil #3]

Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas snipped,
cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body. The body
absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another matter. I
am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those who
don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an outlet with
or without cooperation of the owner.
Phil #3


"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Father Drew > wrote in message
> news:UxP6b.49458$nf3.24095@fed1read07...
> > Did not mean to insult you Tracy. Of course I don't know your man
better
> > than you being that I never met him. But anytime I hear some one claim
> they
> > can hold it in like that on will-power alone, I don't buy it. I would
> have
> > the same reaction if someone told me that they decided to quit
urinating.
> > It's a medical fact, not a personal attack. What do you think would
> happen
> > to the swimmers if they were cooped up in there for say a year ot two
> while
> > John Doe was sexually in-active? It has to go somewhere. I can
> understand
> > a married person, or someone getting it on a regular basis, but someone
> with
> > the magical ability to transport cooked swimmers into thin air should
have
> a
> > show in Vegas. It might just be difficult to relate too when you don't
> own
> > the gear, like I don't know how it feels to need to eat chocolate and
cry
> > every 28 days.
> >
> > I went out to validate and ran across a few interesting links on the
topic
> > (although it's about time we OT this thread).
> >
>
>
> Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men HAVE
> to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was under
> the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used
by
> young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will then
> let this go as it is way OT. lol
>
> T
>
>

[Phil #3]

Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas snipped,
cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body. The body
absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another matter. I
am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those who
don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an outlet with
or without cooperation of the owner.
Phil #3


"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Father Drew > wrote in message
> news:UxP6b.49458$nf3.24095@fed1read07...
> > Did not mean to insult you Tracy. Of course I don't know your man
better
> > than you being that I never met him. But anytime I hear some one claim
> they
> > can hold it in like that on will-power alone, I don't buy it. I would
> have
> > the same reaction if someone told me that they decided to quit
urinating.
> > It's a medical fact, not a personal attack. What do you think would
> happen
> > to the swimmers if they were cooped up in there for say a year ot two
> while
> > John Doe was sexually in-active? It has to go somewhere. I can
> understand
> > a married person, or someone getting it on a regular basis, but someone
> with
> > the magical ability to transport cooked swimmers into thin air should
have
> a
> > show in Vegas. It might just be difficult to relate too when you don't
> own
> > the gear, like I don't know how it feels to need to eat chocolate and
cry
> > every 28 days.
> >
> > I went out to validate and ran across a few interesting links on the
topic
> > (although it's about time we OT this thread).
> >
>
>
> Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men HAVE
> to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was under
> the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used
by
> young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will then
> let this go as it is way OT. lol
>
> T
>
>

[Tiffany]

Phil #3 > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas snipped,
> cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body. The
body
> absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another matter.
I
> am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those who
> don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
> Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an outlet
with
> or without cooperation of the owner.
> Phil #3
>
>


I knew male's were weird, this just confirms it. lol

jk

[Tiffany]

Phil #3 > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas snipped,
> cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body. The
body
> absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another matter.
I
> am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those who
> don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
> Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an outlet
with
> or without cooperation of the owner.
> Phil #3
>
>


I knew male's were weird, this just confirms it. lol

jk

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men HAVE
> to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was under
> the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used
by
> young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will then
> let this go as it is way OT. lol


I can't believe someone is even challenging what I've stated. That goes for
anyone. After all, everyone in *this* group should understand that divorce
can cause depression. Stress, as well as depression, will impact a man's
ability to have an erection, etc. Maybe this whole thing has to do with
age... but really now.

Anyways... back in '94 Psychology Today published a quick study. About 92%
of men stated they masturbated.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/htdocs/prod/PTOArticle/PTO-19940101-000019.AS
P

At this site: http://www.sexuality.org/l/sex/dsmansex.html it states the
average number of ejaculation for a given year. The page claims it was
published in Newsweek. Look for "Frequency of Ejaculation". This page,
which is long, also touches on other topics. Many more topics, and is
probably worth reading. I only scanned it a bit in different subjects.
Bottom-line: even this page admits that most (not all) men masturbate.

Here's another:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/9483/braindrain/men.html This site in
on Depression in Men. Skip down to the paragraph on Sex... "Okay, enough
social history, let's get on to the important stuff. Depression causes big
changes in appetite, reducing most of them to a low level. Sex is no
exception. For most depressed people, men and women, their sex drive reduces
markedly or shuts down altogether while they are ill (a few become more
promiscuous)."

When my boyfriend was ready to start dating again - he was "ready" - but
believe me he still had a road to travel down. I believe him in what he
told me. Why? Two reasons - never had a reason to prior to his divorce,
and I knew he suffered from depression before him and I started dating.
Since I'm not an idiot as to what depression can do - I may have given it a
thought, but I didn't argue with him. If others choose to disagree, make
stupid insulting comments, etc... so be it. It must be an age thing,
because some day they just may learn differently. And I do hope it isn't
due to their own drive swindling to nothing due to depression. I'd hate for
anyone to experience what he did.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men HAVE
> to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was under
> the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used
by
> young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will then
> let this go as it is way OT. lol


I can't believe someone is even challenging what I've stated. That goes for
anyone. After all, everyone in *this* group should understand that divorce
can cause depression. Stress, as well as depression, will impact a man's
ability to have an erection, etc. Maybe this whole thing has to do with
age... but really now.

Anyways... back in '94 Psychology Today published a quick study. About 92%
of men stated they masturbated.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/htdocs/prod/PTOArticle/PTO-19940101-000019.AS
P

At this site: http://www.sexuality.org/l/sex/dsmansex.html it states the
average number of ejaculation for a given year. The page claims it was
published in Newsweek. Look for "Frequency of Ejaculation". This page,
which is long, also touches on other topics. Many more topics, and is
probably worth reading. I only scanned it a bit in different subjects.
Bottom-line: even this page admits that most (not all) men masturbate.

Here's another:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/9483/braindrain/men.html This site in
on Depression in Men. Skip down to the paragraph on Sex... "Okay, enough
social history, let's get on to the important stuff. Depression causes big
changes in appetite, reducing most of them to a low level. Sex is no
exception. For most depressed people, men and women, their sex drive reduces
markedly or shuts down altogether while they are ill (a few become more
promiscuous)."

When my boyfriend was ready to start dating again - he was "ready" - but
believe me he still had a road to travel down. I believe him in what he
told me. Why? Two reasons - never had a reason to prior to his divorce,
and I knew he suffered from depression before him and I started dating.
Since I'm not an idiot as to what depression can do - I may have given it a
thought, but I didn't argue with him. If others choose to disagree, make
stupid insulting comments, etc... so be it. It must be an age thing,
because some day they just may learn differently. And I do hope it isn't
due to their own drive swindling to nothing due to depression. I'd hate for
anyone to experience what he did.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tiffany]

Tracy > wrote in message
news:7ia7b.396725$Ho3.60312@sccrnsc03...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men
HAVE
> > to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was
under
> > the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used
> by
> > young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will
then
> > let this go as it is way OT. lol
>
>
> I can't believe someone is even challenging what I've stated. That goes
for
> anyone. After all, everyone in *this* group should understand that
divorce
> can cause depression. Stress, as well as depression, will impact a man's
> ability to have an erection, etc. Maybe this whole thing has to do with
> age... but really now.


I am assuming you think I am challenging what you stated, since you replied
to my post. I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't challanging your
statement, I was actually wanting proof that men HAVE to ejaculate for
health reasons. That was in response to Drew's (I think) post. I am very
aware of what depression can do to anyone's sex drive. Sorry your partner
went through such a hard time. Glad things are better for him. Thanks for
the links. I will see if any of them answer my question. :)

T

[Tiffany]

Tracy > wrote in message
news:7ia7b.396725$Ho3.60312@sccrnsc03...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men
HAVE
> > to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was
under
> > the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth used
> by
> > young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will
then
> > let this go as it is way OT. lol
>
>
> I can't believe someone is even challenging what I've stated. That goes
for
> anyone. After all, everyone in *this* group should understand that
divorce
> can cause depression. Stress, as well as depression, will impact a man's
> ability to have an erection, etc. Maybe this whole thing has to do with
> age... but really now.


I am assuming you think I am challenging what you stated, since you replied
to my post. I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't challanging your
statement, I was actually wanting proof that men HAVE to ejaculate for
health reasons. That was in response to Drew's (I think) post. I am very
aware of what depression can do to anyone's sex drive. Sorry your partner
went through such a hard time. Glad things are better for him. Thanks for
the links. I will see if any of them answer my question. :)

T

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Tracy > wrote in message
> news:7ia7b.396725$Ho3.60312@sccrnsc03...
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men
> HAVE
> > > to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was
> under
> > > the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth
used
> > by
> > > young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will
> then
> > > let this go as it is way OT. lol
> >
> >
> > I can't believe someone is even challenging what I've stated. That goes
> for
> > anyone. After all, everyone in *this* group should understand that
> divorce
> > can cause depression. Stress, as well as depression, will impact a
man's
> > ability to have an erection, etc. Maybe this whole thing has to do with
> > age... but really now.
>
>
> I am assuming you think I am challenging what you stated, since you
replied
> to my post. I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't challanging your
> statement,

I have to apologize to you... I didn't mean you were. I was "thinking out
loud". Honestly, I'm sorry. I was just kind of in shock after what I had
been reading.


> I was actually wanting proof that men HAVE to ejaculate for
> health reasons. That was in response to Drew's (I think) post. I am very
> aware of what depression can do to anyone's sex drive. Sorry your partner
> went through such a hard time. Glad things are better for him. Thanks for
> the links. I will see if any of them answer my question. :)

I'm glad things are better for my boyfriend too ;-)



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Tracy > wrote in message
> news:7ia7b.396725$Ho3.60312@sccrnsc03...
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that men
> HAVE
> > > to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was
> under
> > > the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth
used
> > by
> > > young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will
> then
> > > let this go as it is way OT. lol
> >
> >
> > I can't believe someone is even challenging what I've stated. That goes
> for
> > anyone. After all, everyone in *this* group should understand that
> divorce
> > can cause depression. Stress, as well as depression, will impact a
man's
> > ability to have an erection, etc. Maybe this whole thing has to do with
> > age... but really now.
>
>
> I am assuming you think I am challenging what you stated, since you
replied
> to my post. I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't challanging your
> statement,

I have to apologize to you... I didn't mean you were. I was "thinking out
loud". Honestly, I'm sorry. I was just kind of in shock after what I had
been reading.


> I was actually wanting proof that men HAVE to ejaculate for
> health reasons. That was in response to Drew's (I think) post. I am very
> aware of what depression can do to anyone's sex drive. Sorry your partner
> went through such a hard time. Glad things are better for him. Thanks for
> the links. I will see if any of them answer my question. :)

I'm glad things are better for my boyfriend too ;-)



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Phil #3]

If you think men are weird, think about this: women have a 'wound' that
won't heal that bleeds every month.
now THAT'S weird :)
Phil #3

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Phil #3 > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas snipped,
> > cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body. The
> body
> > absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another
matter.
> I
> > am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those who
> > don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
> > Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an outlet
> with
> > or without cooperation of the owner.
> > Phil #3
> >
> >
>
>
> I knew male's were weird, this just confirms it. lol
>
> jk
>
>

[Phil #3]

If you think men are weird, think about this: women have a 'wound' that
won't heal that bleeds every month.
now THAT'S weird :)
Phil #3

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Phil #3 > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas snipped,
> > cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body. The
> body
> > absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another
matter.
> I
> > am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those who
> > don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
> > Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an outlet
> with
> > or without cooperation of the owner.
> > Phil #3
> >
> >
>
>
> I knew male's were weird, this just confirms it. lol
>
> jk
>
>

[Tiffany]

lol.... that may be weird to you men but for me as a women, its utterly
annoying. Why won't it heal, damnit?!?!
Phil #3 > wrote in message
nk.net...
> If you think men are weird, think about this: women have a 'wound' that
> won't heal that bleeds every month.
> now THAT'S weird :)
> Phil #3
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Phil #3 > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas
snipped,
> > > cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body.
The
> > body
> > > absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another
> matter.
> > I
> > > am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those who
> > > don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
> > > Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an
outlet
> > with
> > > or without cooperation of the owner.
> > > Phil #3
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > I knew male's were weird, this just confirms it. lol
> >
> > jk
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Tiffany]

lol.... that may be weird to you men but for me as a women, its utterly
annoying. Why won't it heal, damnit?!?!
Phil #3 > wrote in message
nk.net...
> If you think men are weird, think about this: women have a 'wound' that
> won't heal that bleeds every month.
> now THAT'S weird :)
> Phil #3
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Phil #3 > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas
snipped,
> > > cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body.
The
> > body
> > > absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another
> matter.
> > I
> > > am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those who
> > > don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
> > > Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an
outlet
> > with
> > > or without cooperation of the owner.
> > > Phil #3
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > I knew male's were weird, this just confirms it. lol
> >
> > jk
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Tiffany]

Tracy > wrote in message
...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Tracy > wrote in message
> > news:7ia7b.396725$Ho3.60312@sccrnsc03...
> > > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that
men
> > HAVE
> > > > to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was
> > under
> > > > the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth
> used
> > > by
> > > > young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will
> > then
> > > > let this go as it is way OT. lol
> > >
> > >
> > > I can't believe someone is even challenging what I've stated. That
goes
> > for
> > > anyone. After all, everyone in *this* group should understand that
> > divorce
> > > can cause depression. Stress, as well as depression, will impact a
> man's
> > > ability to have an erection, etc. Maybe this whole thing has to do
with
> > > age... but really now.
> >
> >
> > I am assuming you think I am challenging what you stated, since you
> replied
> > to my post. I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't challanging your
> > statement,
>
> I have to apologize to you... I didn't mean you were. I was "thinking out
> loud". Honestly, I'm sorry. I was just kind of in shock after what I had
> been reading.
>
>


Thanks. Clarification was all that was needed. Thanks. :)

T

[Tiffany]

Tracy > wrote in message
...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Tracy > wrote in message
> > news:7ia7b.396725$Ho3.60312@sccrnsc03...
> > > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Can you possibly post some medical links related to the fact that
men
> > HAVE
> > > > to let the swimmers go or they just BUILD up in them? Because I was
> > under
> > > > the assumption the comment concerning what you said was just a myth
> used
> > > by
> > > > young teens to 'convince' their partner to let them 'do it'. I will
> > then
> > > > let this go as it is way OT. lol
> > >
> > >
> > > I can't believe someone is even challenging what I've stated. That
goes
> > for
> > > anyone. After all, everyone in *this* group should understand that
> > divorce
> > > can cause depression. Stress, as well as depression, will impact a
> man's
> > > ability to have an erection, etc. Maybe this whole thing has to do
with
> > > age... but really now.
> >
> >
> > I am assuming you think I am challenging what you stated, since you
> replied
> > to my post. I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't challanging your
> > statement,
>
> I have to apologize to you... I didn't mean you were. I was "thinking out
> loud". Honestly, I'm sorry. I was just kind of in shock after what I had
> been reading.
>
>


Thanks. Clarification was all that was needed. Thanks. :)

T

[Father Drew]

I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but didn't
want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a sense
of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal, life
would be boring.

-Weird Drew

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
> lol.... that may be weird to you men but for me as a women, its utterly
> annoying. Why won't it heal, damnit?!?!
> Phil #3 > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > If you think men are weird, think about this: women have a 'wound' that
> > won't heal that bleeds every month.
> > now THAT'S weird :)
> > Phil #3
> >
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Phil #3 > wrote in message
> > > ink.net...
> > > > Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas
> snipped,
> > > > cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body.
> The
> > > body
> > > > absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another
> > matter.
> > > I
> > > > am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those
who
> > > > don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
> > > > Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an
> outlet
> > > with
> > > > or without cooperation of the owner.
> > > > Phil #3
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I knew male's were weird, this just confirms it. lol
> > >
> > > jk
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Father Drew]

I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but didn't
want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a sense
of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal, life
would be boring.

-Weird Drew

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
> lol.... that may be weird to you men but for me as a women, its utterly
> annoying. Why won't it heal, damnit?!?!
> Phil #3 > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > If you think men are weird, think about this: women have a 'wound' that
> > won't heal that bleeds every month.
> > now THAT'S weird :)
> > Phil #3
> >
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Phil #3 > wrote in message
> > > ink.net...
> > > > Since I have had a vasectomy with both ends of the clipped vas
> snipped,
> > > > cauterized and banded, my "swimmers" have no means to exit my body.
> The
> > > body
> > > > absorbs these after a period of time. Semen, san sperm, is another
> > matter.
> > > I
> > > > am fortunate in that I have a couple of outlets or that. For those
who
> > > > don't, night-time emissions (wet dreams) are a common occurrence.
> > > > Sperm does not build up, semen will and when sufficient, find an
> outlet
> > > with
> > > > or without cooperation of the owner.
> > > > Phil #3
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I knew male's were weird, this just confirms it. lol
> > >
> > > jk
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Tiffany]

Father Drew > wrote in message
news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but didn't
> want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a
sense
> of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal,
life
> would be boring.
>
> -Weird Drew

Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other women
would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this cause I
am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)

T
>

[Tiffany]

Father Drew > wrote in message
news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but didn't
> want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a
sense
> of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal,
life
> would be boring.
>
> -Weird Drew

Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other women
would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this cause I
am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)

T
>

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Father Drew > wrote in message
> news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but didn't
> > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a
> sense
> > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal,
> life
> > would be boring.
> >
> > -Weird Drew
>
> Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
women
> would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this cause
I
> am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)


LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)

I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group. In my
opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)

My Aunt sent me a picture of a license plate from right here in Oregon. It
reads "PMS24-7". My Aunt asked if I think it would keep the cops away. LOL


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> Father Drew > wrote in message
> news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but didn't
> > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a
> sense
> > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal,
> life
> > would be boring.
> >
> > -Weird Drew
>
> Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
women
> would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this cause
I
> am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)


LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)

I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group. In my
opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)

My Aunt sent me a picture of a license plate from right here in Oregon. It
reads "PMS24-7". My Aunt asked if I think it would keep the cops away. LOL


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Bob Whiteside]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
t...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Father Drew > wrote in message
> > news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> > > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but
didn't
> > > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a
> > sense
> > > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal,
> > life
> > > would be boring.
> > >
> > > -Weird Drew
> >
> > Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
> women
> > would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this
cause
> I
> > am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)
>
>
> LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)
>
> I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
> group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group. In
my
> opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)

I believe you are referring to me and you are taking what I said out of
context. I think jokes are funny just like anybody else. My prior comments
were not about jokes being told in a-c-s. I specifically stated that under
the sexual harassment laws, telling jokes (like the one above) are
considered to contribute to a hostile work environment. The exact context
of my comment was in reaction to posters stating they have heard, or told,
the jokes at work. A manager who overheard the above joke and didn't take
immediate action to discipline the joke teller would face personal liability
for their inaction.

The problem with the hostile work environment law is a person like Tiffany
or Tracy can say they think a joke is funny. But if a person near them, who
overhears the joke finds it offensive, the joke teller can be suspended or
lose their job. I believe I also pointed out that having one standard of
joke telling for the work environment and another for off-work time can
cause a person to slip up at work and potentially get themselves into a
bind.

White males are particularly vulnerable in the workplace for accusations of
sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment. Tiffany's
comment that she can say women are fickle "cause she is a female" is part of
the problem. There are double standards in how the sexual harassment laws
are applied.

[Bob Whiteside]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
t...
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Father Drew > wrote in message
> > news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> > > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but
didn't
> > > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a
> > sense
> > > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal,
> > life
> > > would be boring.
> > >
> > > -Weird Drew
> >
> > Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
> women
> > would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this
cause
> I
> > am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)
>
>
> LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)
>
> I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
> group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group. In
my
> opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)

I believe you are referring to me and you are taking what I said out of
context. I think jokes are funny just like anybody else. My prior comments
were not about jokes being told in a-c-s. I specifically stated that under
the sexual harassment laws, telling jokes (like the one above) are
considered to contribute to a hostile work environment. The exact context
of my comment was in reaction to posters stating they have heard, or told,
the jokes at work. A manager who overheard the above joke and didn't take
immediate action to discipline the joke teller would face personal liability
for their inaction.

The problem with the hostile work environment law is a person like Tiffany
or Tracy can say they think a joke is funny. But if a person near them, who
overhears the joke finds it offensive, the joke teller can be suspended or
lose their job. I believe I also pointed out that having one standard of
joke telling for the work environment and another for off-work time can
cause a person to slip up at work and potentially get themselves into a
bind.

White males are particularly vulnerable in the workplace for accusations of
sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment. Tiffany's
comment that she can say women are fickle "cause she is a female" is part of
the problem. There are double standards in how the sexual harassment laws
are applied.

[Mel Gamble]

DAMN....

>"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Father Drew > wrote in message
>> news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
>> > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but didn't
>> > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a
>> sense
>> > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal,
>> life
>> > would be boring.
>> >
>> > -Weird Drew
>>
>> Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
>women
>> would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this cause
>I
>> am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)
>
>
>LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)
>
>I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
>group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group. In my
>opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)
>
>My Aunt sent me a picture of a license plate from right here in Oregon. It

************************
>reads "PMS24-7".
************************

Guess my second wife is back in oregun....

Mel Gamble

>My Aunt asked if I think it would keep the cops away. LOL
>
>
>Tracy

[Mel Gamble]

DAMN....

>"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Father Drew > wrote in message
>> news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
>> > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but didn't
>> > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with a
>> sense
>> > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all normal,
>> life
>> > would be boring.
>> >
>> > -Weird Drew
>>
>> Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
>women
>> would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this cause
>I
>> am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)
>
>
>LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)
>
>I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
>group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group. In my
>opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)
>
>My Aunt sent me a picture of a license plate from right here in Oregon. It

************************
>reads "PMS24-7".
************************

Guess my second wife is back in oregun....

Mel Gamble

>My Aunt asked if I think it would keep the cops away. LOL
>
>
>Tracy

[Tiffany]

Bob Whiteside > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> t...
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Father Drew > wrote in message
> > > news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> > > > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but
> didn't
> > > > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with
a
> > > sense
> > > > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all
normal,
> > > life
> > > > would be boring.
> > > >
> > > > -Weird Drew
> > >
> > > Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
> > women
> > > would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this
> cause
> > I
> > > am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)
> >
> >
> > LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)
> >
> > I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
> > group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group.
In
> my
> > opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)
>
> I believe you are referring to me and you are taking what I said out of
> context. I think jokes are funny just like anybody else. My prior
comments
> were not about jokes being told in a-c-s. I specifically stated that
under
> the sexual harassment laws, telling jokes (like the one above) are
> considered to contribute to a hostile work environment. The exact context
> of my comment was in reaction to posters stating they have heard, or told,
> the jokes at work. A manager who overheard the above joke and didn't take
> immediate action to discipline the joke teller would face personal
liability
> for their inaction.
>
> The problem with the hostile work environment law is a person like Tiffany
> or Tracy can say they think a joke is funny. But if a person near them,
who
> overhears the joke finds it offensive, the joke teller can be suspended or
> lose their job. I believe I also pointed out that having one standard of
> joke telling for the work environment and another for off-work time can
> cause a person to slip up at work and potentially get themselves into a
> bind.
>
> White males are particularly vulnerable in the workplace for accusations
of
> sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment. Tiffany's
> comment that she can say women are fickle "cause she is a female" is part
of
> the problem. There are double standards in how the sexual harassment laws
> are applied.
>
>

Very true unfortunately but as my last job I worked with a lot of men and if
I filed harassment against every man that made in indecent 'joke' or
comment, I would have been in the office more then working. You really have
to be careful what you say with certain people, as in all of your life
dealings. Men can also complain about the same harassment problems they just
don't over all as often as women. I think there are times when a mans
comments to the opposite sex can get out of hand though and if the female
isn't up for dealing with it personally, she might need to talk to the
supervisor. The same can go for men. I had a male coworker who was getting
harassed by a female who had the guts to hand him naked pictures of herself.
(They were apparently not impressive....lol)

[Tiffany]

Bob Whiteside > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> t...
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Father Drew > wrote in message
> > > news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> > > > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but
> didn't
> > > > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with
a
> > > sense
> > > > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all
normal,
> > > life
> > > > would be boring.
> > > >
> > > > -Weird Drew
> > >
> > > Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
> > women
> > > would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this
> cause
> > I
> > > am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)
> >
> >
> > LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)
> >
> > I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
> > group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group.
In
> my
> > opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)
>
> I believe you are referring to me and you are taking what I said out of
> context. I think jokes are funny just like anybody else. My prior
comments
> were not about jokes being told in a-c-s. I specifically stated that
under
> the sexual harassment laws, telling jokes (like the one above) are
> considered to contribute to a hostile work environment. The exact context
> of my comment was in reaction to posters stating they have heard, or told,
> the jokes at work. A manager who overheard the above joke and didn't take
> immediate action to discipline the joke teller would face personal
liability
> for their inaction.
>
> The problem with the hostile work environment law is a person like Tiffany
> or Tracy can say they think a joke is funny. But if a person near them,
who
> overhears the joke finds it offensive, the joke teller can be suspended or
> lose their job. I believe I also pointed out that having one standard of
> joke telling for the work environment and another for off-work time can
> cause a person to slip up at work and potentially get themselves into a
> bind.
>
> White males are particularly vulnerable in the workplace for accusations
of
> sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment. Tiffany's
> comment that she can say women are fickle "cause she is a female" is part
of
> the problem. There are double standards in how the sexual harassment laws
> are applied.
>
>

Very true unfortunately but as my last job I worked with a lot of men and if
I filed harassment against every man that made in indecent 'joke' or
comment, I would have been in the office more then working. You really have
to be careful what you say with certain people, as in all of your life
dealings. Men can also complain about the same harassment problems they just
don't over all as often as women. I think there are times when a mans
comments to the opposite sex can get out of hand though and if the female
isn't up for dealing with it personally, she might need to talk to the
supervisor. The same can go for men. I had a male coworker who was getting
harassed by a female who had the guts to hand him naked pictures of herself.
(They were apparently not impressive....lol)

[Tracy]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> t...
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Father Drew > wrote in message
> > > news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> > > > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but
> didn't
> > > > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with
a
> > > sense
> > > > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all
normal,
> > > life
> > > > would be boring.
> > > >
> > > > -Weird Drew
> > >
> > > Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
> > women
> > > would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this
> cause
> > I
> > > am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)
> >
> >
> > LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)
> >
> > I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
> > group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group.
In
> my
> > opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)
>
> I believe you are referring to me and you are taking what I said out of
> context. I think jokes are funny just like anybody else. My prior
comments
> were not about jokes being told in a-c-s. I specifically stated that
under
> the sexual harassment laws, telling jokes (like the one above) are
> considered to contribute to a hostile work environment.

I was referring to your comments about off-topic posts in this group and how
you are "guilty" of trying to steer conversations back to CS topics, not to
mention your responses to others, you didn't like, who have attempted humor
(a joke on motherhood and Dan's comments). That is why I placed quotes
around the word jokes. It goes far beyond jokes.

So now that you decided that they are "ok" - good.. because this group has
been dry for a very long time and there is no reason for it.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> t...
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Father Drew > wrote in message
> > > news:aQy7b.52305$nf3.43889@fed1read07...
> > > > I actually wrote the same thing in response to the same post, but
> didn't
> > > > want to upset the women in here. Thought it might not be taken with
a
> > > sense
> > > > of humor, I was wrong. Hey, we are all weird. If we were all
normal,
> > > life
> > > > would be boring.
> > > >
> > > > -Weird Drew
> > >
> > > Well, I thought it was funny.... that surely doesn't mean every other
> > women
> > > would. You know us women..... very fickle. ;) (See, I can say this
> cause
> > I
> > > am female. If you say it, you better watch out. lol)
> >
> >
> > LOL... I thought it was funny too. Good play on words, and true. :)
> >
> > I've only seen one person who has ever complained about "jokes" in this
> > group. I've personally have had no problems with them in this group.
In
> my
> > opinion it helps to laugh to bring down the tension in here. :)
>
> I believe you are referring to me and you are taking what I said out of
> context. I think jokes are funny just like anybody else. My prior
comments
> were not about jokes being told in a-c-s. I specifically stated that
under
> the sexual harassment laws, telling jokes (like the one above) are
> considered to contribute to a hostile work environment.

I was referring to your comments about off-topic posts in this group and how
you are "guilty" of trying to steer conversations back to CS topics, not to
mention your responses to others, you didn't like, who have attempted humor
(a joke on motherhood and Dan's comments). That is why I placed quotes
around the word jokes. It goes far beyond jokes.

So now that you decided that they are "ok" - good.. because this group has
been dry for a very long time and there is no reason for it.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Mel Gamble" > wrote in message
...
> DAMN....
>
> >My Aunt sent me a picture of a license plate from right here in Oregon.
It
>
> ************************
> >reads "PMS24-7".
> ************************
>
> Guess my second wife is back in oregun....


LOL! :)

btw - I've been busy, otherwise I would have answered your email. I love
the video of my baby. :)


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Mel Gamble" > wrote in message
...
> DAMN....
>
> >My Aunt sent me a picture of a license plate from right here in Oregon.
It
>
> ************************
> >reads "PMS24-7".
> ************************
>
> Guess my second wife is back in oregun....


LOL! :)

btw - I've been busy, otherwise I would have answered your email. I love
the video of my baby. :)


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:0788b.320583$Oz4.109093@rwcrnsc54...
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> So now that you decided that they are "ok" - good.. because this group has
> been dry for a very long time and there is no reason for it.

Oh, and before I forget - here's a good one for those who enjoy soapboxes.
:-p

http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/~jon/humor/web_animations/may02-smilepo
p-soapbox4.swf



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:0788b.320583$Oz4.109093@rwcrnsc54...
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> So now that you decided that they are "ok" - good.. because this group has
> been dry for a very long time and there is no reason for it.

Oh, and before I forget - here's a good one for those who enjoy soapboxes.
:-p

http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/~jon/humor/web_animations/may02-smilepo
p-soapbox4.swf



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[AZ Astrea]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
.net...
> "AZ Astrea" > wrote in message
> ...
> > warning top-posting
> >
> > Drew, that was my reaction also. And in the case of those 'monks',
while
> > they may not have 'spanked' it they do have nocturnal emmissions because
> the
> > URGE is natural and REQUIRES release.
>
>
> Sometimes the urge is deemed sick and deserves punishment - as in those
> whose urges are for children, or physically violent rape, plus others. Do
> you feel those urges require release and is natural? I don't. If you
> believe those sick urges can be controlled, then you should understand
that
> everyone has the capability of controlling their own sexual urges - no
> matter how "un-natural" it may seem.
----------------------------
I didn't see this post until today, maybe it's my news server?

That's not what I meant at all. I'm not saying a guy has to 'act' on an
urge, like a ped*phile taking a child. I'm saying that no matter how hard a
guy suppresses the physical urge, (not the 'act'), but the actual physical
release of semen from the body, the more likely it is that when the body
requires the release of that semen it will find a way to release it. It's a
medical fact that various fluids, (not necessarily sperm), are excreted and
build up in the body and at some point it has to be released. There is
nothing remotely un-natural about this and neither is it a question of
"controlling their own sexual urges".

As far as the 'monks' go, since they weren't allowed to masturbate, they
naturally had night-time emmissions. There was no sin in this, although
apparantly, there was some shame which is why the stories of the succubus
and such came to be. The succubus visits men in their sleep to have sex.
The men don't awaken during this but may experience it as a dream.
--------------------------------------------
>
> Let's say you are married, or in a serious relationship and living
together.
> You've been together for many many years. The woman is diagnosed with
> cancer. She has surgery and starts treatment. Her treatment leaves her
> feeling very sick and she is tired a lot. Do you feel it is okay for the
> man to find someone else to go an release his urge? Do you honestly think
> the man would even get horny after watching the woman he loves become sick
> like that? "Yeah honey while you have your head in the toilet can you
lift
> it and take care of me?" Yeah right!
-----------------------------
It wouldn't be okay for me in that situation. There was a movie I saw,
can't remember the name, but there was a hooker named China Blue. At one
point an elderly lady hired CB to have s*x with her dying husband. It was a
very poignant scene where he tells her he has no desire for her, etc and
ends with them both crying, (and me), and her comforting him,(non-sexual).
------------------------------
>
> I know a couple who is in the early 60's. When she was in her mid-50's
she
> was diagnosed with breast cancer. She had both breast removed. Later she
> went back and had more tissue removed. She went through many years of
> treatment, and was sicker than a dog the whole time. Her husband did not
> cheat on her. They didn't have sex. And yes - she shares that
information.
> In fact one of the things she loved about the man is his sex drive. Her
> personal sex drive is low (to none), and he matched hers.
-------------------------------
Depression, illness, of course these affect the sex drive and, I don't know,
maybe even slow the production of semen. A guy may have no desire to have
sex or masturbate, but at some point regardless of his desire, or lack of
it, enough fluids are going to build up and require release. And I'm not
saying that he is going to start thinking about sex or even remember what
'caused' a night-time emmission, it doesn't require his cooperation at all.
It's just going to build up, and he may not even 'feel' it, (as in get
horny), due to depression or illness, until the body must rid itself of it.
----------------------------------
>
> As it has been said before - everyone is different. People have different
> sex drives and what turns them on. I personally question those who feel
> they need it every few days. I question if they are capable of staying
> within a long-term relationship (marriage or otherwise), because a large
> amounts of sexual activity will not always happen.
-------------------------------------
Yes, everyone is different. Some people have to take a daily poop. Some
people only go about once a week. Some people have to eat several small
meals a day and some are good with a couple of big meals. But the one
constant is that at some point everyones body has to have intake and output
and seminal fluid is no different. It's not a question of what turns them
on, 'needing it' or being capable of long-term relationships, it's just a
medical reality.

I'm glad your bf is 'happier' now!

~AZ~


>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> "You can't solve problems with the same
> type of thinking that created them."
> Albert Einstein
>
> *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
>
>

[AZ Astrea]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
.net...
> "AZ Astrea" > wrote in message
> ...
> > warning top-posting
> >
> > Drew, that was my reaction also. And in the case of those 'monks',
while
> > they may not have 'spanked' it they do have nocturnal emmissions because
> the
> > URGE is natural and REQUIRES release.
>
>
> Sometimes the urge is deemed sick and deserves punishment - as in those
> whose urges are for children, or physically violent rape, plus others. Do
> you feel those urges require release and is natural? I don't. If you
> believe those sick urges can be controlled, then you should understand
that
> everyone has the capability of controlling their own sexual urges - no
> matter how "un-natural" it may seem.
----------------------------
I didn't see this post until today, maybe it's my news server?

That's not what I meant at all. I'm not saying a guy has to 'act' on an
urge, like a ped*phile taking a child. I'm saying that no matter how hard a
guy suppresses the physical urge, (not the 'act'), but the actual physical
release of semen from the body, the more likely it is that when the body
requires the release of that semen it will find a way to release it. It's a
medical fact that various fluids, (not necessarily sperm), are excreted and
build up in the body and at some point it has to be released. There is
nothing remotely un-natural about this and neither is it a question of
"controlling their own sexual urges".

As far as the 'monks' go, since they weren't allowed to masturbate, they
naturally had night-time emmissions. There was no sin in this, although
apparantly, there was some shame which is why the stories of the succubus
and such came to be. The succubus visits men in their sleep to have sex.
The men don't awaken during this but may experience it as a dream.
--------------------------------------------
>
> Let's say you are married, or in a serious relationship and living
together.
> You've been together for many many years. The woman is diagnosed with
> cancer. She has surgery and starts treatment. Her treatment leaves her
> feeling very sick and she is tired a lot. Do you feel it is okay for the
> man to find someone else to go an release his urge? Do you honestly think
> the man would even get horny after watching the woman he loves become sick
> like that? "Yeah honey while you have your head in the toilet can you
lift
> it and take care of me?" Yeah right!
-----------------------------
It wouldn't be okay for me in that situation. There was a movie I saw,
can't remember the name, but there was a hooker named China Blue. At one
point an elderly lady hired CB to have s*x with her dying husband. It was a
very poignant scene where he tells her he has no desire for her, etc and
ends with them both crying, (and me), and her comforting him,(non-sexual).
------------------------------
>
> I know a couple who is in the early 60's. When she was in her mid-50's
she
> was diagnosed with breast cancer. She had both breast removed. Later she
> went back and had more tissue removed. She went through many years of
> treatment, and was sicker than a dog the whole time. Her husband did not
> cheat on her. They didn't have sex. And yes - she shares that
information.
> In fact one of the things she loved about the man is his sex drive. Her
> personal sex drive is low (to none), and he matched hers.
-------------------------------
Depression, illness, of course these affect the sex drive and, I don't know,
maybe even slow the production of semen. A guy may have no desire to have
sex or masturbate, but at some point regardless of his desire, or lack of
it, enough fluids are going to build up and require release. And I'm not
saying that he is going to start thinking about sex or even remember what
'caused' a night-time emmission, it doesn't require his cooperation at all.
It's just going to build up, and he may not even 'feel' it, (as in get
horny), due to depression or illness, until the body must rid itself of it.
----------------------------------
>
> As it has been said before - everyone is different. People have different
> sex drives and what turns them on. I personally question those who feel
> they need it every few days. I question if they are capable of staying
> within a long-term relationship (marriage or otherwise), because a large
> amounts of sexual activity will not always happen.
-------------------------------------
Yes, everyone is different. Some people have to take a daily poop. Some
people only go about once a week. Some people have to eat several small
meals a day and some are good with a couple of big meals. But the one
constant is that at some point everyones body has to have intake and output
and seminal fluid is no different. It's not a question of what turns them
on, 'needing it' or being capable of long-term relationships, it's just a
medical reality.

I'm glad your bf is 'happier' now!

~AZ~


>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> "You can't solve problems with the same
> type of thinking that created them."
> Albert Einstein
>
> *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
>
>

[AZ Astrea]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
.net...
> "AZ Astrea" > wrote in message
> ...
> > warning top-posting
> >
> > Drew, that was my reaction also. And in the case of those 'monks',
while
> > they may not have 'spanked' it they do have nocturnal emmissions because
> the
> > URGE is natural and REQUIRES release.
>
>
> Sometimes the urge is deemed sick and deserves punishment - as in those
> whose urges are for children, or physically violent rape, plus others. Do
> you feel those urges require release and is natural? I don't. If you
> believe those sick urges can be controlled, then you should understand
that
> everyone has the capability of controlling their own sexual urges - no
> matter how "un-natural" it may seem.
----------------------------
I didn't see this post until today, maybe it's my news server?

That's not what I meant at all. I'm not saying a guy has to 'act' on an
urge, like a ped*phile taking a child. I'm saying that no matter how hard a
guy suppresses the physical urge, (not the 'act'), but the actual physical
release of semen from the body, the more likely it is that when the body
requires the release of that semen it will find a way to release it. It's a
medical fact that various fluids, (not necessarily sperm), are excreted and
build up in the body and at some point it has to be released. There is
nothing remotely un-natural about this and neither is it a question of
"controlling their own sexual urges".

As far as the 'monks' go, since they weren't allowed to masturbate, they
naturally had night-time emmissions. There was no sin in this, although
apparantly, there was some shame which is why the stories of the succubus
and such came to be. The succubus visits men in their sleep to have sex.
The men don't awaken during this but may experience it as a dream.
--------------------------------------------
>
> Let's say you are married, or in a serious relationship and living
together.
> You've been together for many many years. The woman is diagnosed with
> cancer. She has surgery and starts treatment. Her treatment leaves her
> feeling very sick and she is tired a lot. Do you feel it is okay for the
> man to find someone else to go an release his urge? Do you honestly think
> the man would even get horny after watching the woman he loves become sick
> like that? "Yeah honey while you have your head in the toilet can you
lift
> it and take care of me?" Yeah right!
-----------------------------
It wouldn't be okay for me in that situation. There was a movie I saw,
can't remember the name, but there was a hooker named China Blue. At one
point an elderly lady hired CB to have s*x with her dying husband. It was a
very poignant scene where he tells her he has no desire for her, etc and
ends with them both crying, (and me), and her comforting him,(non-sexual).
------------------------------
>
> I know a couple who is in the early 60's. When she was in her mid-50's
she
> was diagnosed with breast cancer. She had both breast removed. Later she
> went back and had more tissue removed. She went through many years of
> treatment, and was sicker than a dog the whole time. Her husband did not
> cheat on her. They didn't have sex. And yes - she shares that
information.
> In fact one of the things she loved about the man is his sex drive. Her
> personal sex drive is low (to none), and he matched hers.
-------------------------------
Depression, illness, of course these affect the sex drive and, I don't know,
maybe even slow the production of semen. A guy may have no desire to have
sex or masturbate, but at some point regardless of his desire, or lack of
it, enough fluids are going to build up and require release. And I'm not
saying that he is going to start thinking about sex or even remember what
'caused' a night-time emmission, it doesn't require his cooperation at all.
It's just going to build up, and he may not even 'feel' it, (as in get
horny), due to depression or illness, until the body must rid itself of it.
----------------------------------
>
> As it has been said before - everyone is different. People have different
> sex drives and what turns them on. I personally question those who feel
> they need it every few days. I question if they are capable of staying
> within a long-term relationship (marriage or otherwise), because a large
> amounts of sexual activity will not always happen.
-------------------------------------
Yes, everyone is different. Some people have to take a daily poop. Some
people only go about once a week. Some people have to eat several small
meals a day and some are good with a couple of big meals. But the one
constant is that at some point everyones body has to have intake and output
and seminal fluid is no different. It's not a question of what turns them
on, 'needing it' or being capable of long-term relationships, it's just a
medical reality.

I'm glad your bf is 'happier' now!

~AZ~


>
>
> Tracy
> ~~~~~~~
> http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
> "You can't solve problems with the same
> type of thinking that created them."
> Albert Einstein
>
> *** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***
>
>