Birthdays and Parties

[C. D.]

I know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
(fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
gifts?

- a party in the ex's neighborhood
- a party in my neighborhood
- a party from a child in day care (neutral) neighborhood
- a party from a child of the ex's friend
- a party from a child of my friend

For example, if a neighbor's children of the ex wife has a party but the party
is on my day, I was instructed by the ex as to a) must take our child and b)
purchase the gift.

Also, what happens if all events fall on one or the other's day?

Purchasing gifts are strange too since I pay lots of support.

The way I think it should work is that children parties or events that are
associated with me (my neighbors, friends, family) - I would take the child
regardless of the day or who "has them". The same would apply to the ex.

This way too, neither person is forcing the other to attend a function with
either strangers or people that would make them feel uncomfortable.

Any adice would be appreciated.

C..

[Moon Shyne]

"C. D." > wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
> I know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
> hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
> other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
> (fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
> time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
> gifts?
>
> - a party in the ex's neighborhood
> - a party in my neighborhood
> - a party from a child in day care (neutral) neighborhood
> - a party from a child of the ex's friend
> - a party from a child of my friend
>
> For example, if a neighbor's children of the ex wife has a party but the party
> is on my day, I was instructed by the ex as to a) must take our child and b)
> purchase the gift.
>
> Also, what happens if all events fall on one or the other's day?
>
> Purchasing gifts are strange too since I pay lots of support.
>
> The way I think it should work is that children parties or events that are
> associated with me (my neighbors, friends, family) - I would take the child
> regardless of the day or who "has them". The same would apply to the ex.
>
> This way too, neither person is forcing the other to attend a function with
> either strangers or people that would make them feel uncomfortable.
>
> Any adice would be appreciated.

What I've tried to do, for the past 5 years, is whichever parent has the child
on the day of the party has to be the one to give permission - and since the
children live primarily with me, I've always purchased the present.

>
> C..

[Moon Shyne]

"C. D." > wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
> I know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
> hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
> other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
> (fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
> time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
> gifts?
>
> - a party in the ex's neighborhood
> - a party in my neighborhood
> - a party from a child in day care (neutral) neighborhood
> - a party from a child of the ex's friend
> - a party from a child of my friend
>
> For example, if a neighbor's children of the ex wife has a party but the party
> is on my day, I was instructed by the ex as to a) must take our child and b)
> purchase the gift.
>
> Also, what happens if all events fall on one or the other's day?
>
> Purchasing gifts are strange too since I pay lots of support.
>
> The way I think it should work is that children parties or events that are
> associated with me (my neighbors, friends, family) - I would take the child
> regardless of the day or who "has them". The same would apply to the ex.
>
> This way too, neither person is forcing the other to attend a function with
> either strangers or people that would make them feel uncomfortable.
>
> Any adice would be appreciated.

What I've tried to do, for the past 5 years, is whichever parent has the child
on the day of the party has to be the one to give permission - and since the
children live primarily with me, I've always purchased the present.

>
> C..

[GudGye11]

I'd say...

If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex takes
them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
..

In article ers.com>,
(C. D.) writes:

> know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
>
>hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
>other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
>(fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
>time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
>
>gifts?

[GudGye11]

I'd say...

If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex takes
them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
..

In article ers.com>,
(C. D.) writes:

> know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
>
>hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
>other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
>(fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
>time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
>
>gifts?

[gini52]

"GudGye11" > wrote in message
...
> I'd say...
>
> If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
takes
> them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
==
Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
issues.
==
==
> .
>
> In article ers.com>,
> (C. D.) writes:
>
> > know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too
many
> >
> >hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties
and
> >other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
> >(fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my
ex's
> >time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase
the
> >
> >gifts?
>
>

[gini52]

"GudGye11" > wrote in message
...
> I'd say...
>
> If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
takes
> them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
==
Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
issues.
==
==
> .
>
> In article ers.com>,
> (C. D.) writes:
>
> > know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too
many
> >
> >hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties
and
> >other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
> >(fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my
ex's
> >time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase
the
> >
> >gifts?
>
>

[Leslie]

- a party from a child of the ex's friend
- a party in the ex's neighborhood
EX's responsibility, EX provides gift and transportation. If it was
my weekend, I would allow the child to attend unless there were
previous plans that could not be broken.


- a party in my neighborhood
- a party from a child of my friend
My responsibility, I provide gift and transportation. If it is EX's
weekend, I will respect EX's decision on whether the child could
attend or not. I would willingly offer compesation of another day for
time missed if EX wants.


- a party from a child in day care (neutral) neighborhood
This depends on which parent has the child in day care. I'm
custodial, so if it was a day care that I had enrolled the child in,
it would be my responsibility, I would purchase gift, and ask EX that
child be able to attend.
If it was a day care that the EX enrolled the child in during summer
visitation, he would be expected to take care of it.

[Leslie]

- a party from a child of the ex's friend
- a party in the ex's neighborhood
EX's responsibility, EX provides gift and transportation. If it was
my weekend, I would allow the child to attend unless there were
previous plans that could not be broken.


- a party in my neighborhood
- a party from a child of my friend
My responsibility, I provide gift and transportation. If it is EX's
weekend, I will respect EX's decision on whether the child could
attend or not. I would willingly offer compesation of another day for
time missed if EX wants.


- a party from a child in day care (neutral) neighborhood
This depends on which parent has the child in day care. I'm
custodial, so if it was a day care that I had enrolled the child in,
it would be my responsibility, I would purchase gift, and ask EX that
child be able to attend.
If it was a day care that the EX enrolled the child in during summer
visitation, he would be expected to take care of it.

[Bob Whiteside]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'd say...
> >
> > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
> takes
> > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> ==
> Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
> issues.
> ==
> ==

It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the party
and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and other
issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece or
nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the child
to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?

I think parents have to be reasonable about these situations and make
visitation accommodations to make it work. I also believe the parent where
the birthday invitation was received should purchase the gift for the child
to take. My reasoning is that parent has the advanced notice of the party
and is the parent responsible for the RSVP.

As an NCP I had a few issues with parties early on. Several times I found
out the party was on Saturday on the Friday night I picked up the children
and I *needed* to buy a present for them to take. I resolved this scenario
by insisting the children bring a pre-purchased gift with them for the
visitation or, at a minimum, the money to purchase the gift before the
party.

[Bob Whiteside]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'd say...
> >
> > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
> takes
> > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> ==
> Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
> issues.
> ==
> ==

It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the party
and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and other
issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece or
nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the child
to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?

I think parents have to be reasonable about these situations and make
visitation accommodations to make it work. I also believe the parent where
the birthday invitation was received should purchase the gift for the child
to take. My reasoning is that parent has the advanced notice of the party
and is the parent responsible for the RSVP.

As an NCP I had a few issues with parties early on. Several times I found
out the party was on Saturday on the Friday night I picked up the children
and I *needed* to buy a present for them to take. I resolved this scenario
by insisting the children bring a pre-purchased gift with them for the
visitation or, at a minimum, the money to purchase the gift before the
party.

[gini52]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "gini52" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'd say...
> > >
> > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
> > takes
> > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > ==
> > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
> > issues.
> > ==
> > ==
>
> It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the party
> and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and
other
> issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece or
> nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the
child
> to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
==
I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling over
such petty matters.
If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts into
"visitation," so what?
If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a few
hours away from the child while
he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of this
is absurd--parents need to work
these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried away
with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
"That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
==
==

[gini52]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "gini52" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'd say...
> > >
> > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
> > takes
> > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > ==
> > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
> > issues.
> > ==
> > ==
>
> It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the party
> and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and
other
> issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece or
> nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the
child
> to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
==
I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling over
such petty matters.
If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts into
"visitation," so what?
If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a few
hours away from the child while
he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of this
is absurd--parents need to work
these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried away
with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
"That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
==
==

[C. D.]

In article >, (GudGye11) wrote:
>I'd say...
>
>If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex takes
>them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)

Kind of makes me wonder where all those $1000's in "child" support are going
(and for what then??).


..
>
>In article ers.com>,
(C. D.) writes:
>
>> know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
>>
>>hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
>>other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
>>(fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
>>time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
>>
>>gifts?
>
>

[C. D.]

In article >, (GudGye11) wrote:
>I'd say...
>
>If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex takes
>them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)

Kind of makes me wonder where all those $1000's in "child" support are going
(and for what then??).


..
>
>In article ers.com>,
(C. D.) writes:
>
>> know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
>>
>>hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
>>other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
>>(fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
>>time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
>>
>>gifts?
>
>

[C. D.]

In article >, "gini52" > wrote:
>
>"GudGye11" > wrote in message
...
>> I'd say...
>>
>> If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
>takes
>> them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
>==
>Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
>issues.

I guess my question was, when do "I" take them. You assumed that issue was
already answered.

Do I want to 'forced' to take my child to the ex's best friend child's b-day
party just because it is my day only to be surrounded by people who hate me?
Also, kids are smart... they'll notice.

I assume I will take them to party's that are associated with me, and the ex
will take them to parties associated with her. Of course, the person would
still have to ask permission to do that if the day was not their day. For
example, what if I planned a fishing trip the weekend of a party. Unless the
children are old enough (mine are not) to voice their opinions, all kinds of
issues can arise.

It is funny though, but it depands also on what is classified as a substantive
issue. Unfortunately the more you give or be reasonable, the more you get
taken advantage of. When things are not amicable... nothing is a 'no-brainer'.

[C. D.]

In article >, "gini52" > wrote:
>
>"GudGye11" > wrote in message
...
>> I'd say...
>>
>> If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
>takes
>> them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
>==
>Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
>issues.

I guess my question was, when do "I" take them. You assumed that issue was
already answered.

Do I want to 'forced' to take my child to the ex's best friend child's b-day
party just because it is my day only to be surrounded by people who hate me?
Also, kids are smart... they'll notice.

I assume I will take them to party's that are associated with me, and the ex
will take them to parties associated with her. Of course, the person would
still have to ask permission to do that if the day was not their day. For
example, what if I planned a fishing trip the weekend of a party. Unless the
children are old enough (mine are not) to voice their opinions, all kinds of
issues can arise.

It is funny though, but it depands also on what is classified as a substantive
issue. Unfortunately the more you give or be reasonable, the more you get
taken advantage of. When things are not amicable... nothing is a 'no-brainer'.

[Chris Owens]

"C. D." wrote:
>
> I know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
> hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
> other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
> (fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
> time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
> gifts?
>
> - a party in the ex's neighborhood
> - a party in my neighborhood
> - a party from a child in day care (neutral) neighborhood
> - a party from a child of the ex's friend
> - a party from a child of my friend
>
> For example, if a neighbor's children of the ex wife has a party but the party
> is on my day, I was instructed by the ex as to a) must take our child and b)
> purchase the gift.
>
> Also, what happens if all events fall on one or the other's day?
>
> Purchasing gifts are strange too since I pay lots of support.
>
> The way I think it should work is that children parties or events that are
> associated with me (my neighbors, friends, family) - I would take the child
> regardless of the day or who "has them". The same would apply to the ex.
>
> This way too, neither person is forcing the other to attend a function with
> either strangers or people that would make them feel uncomfortable.
>
> Any adice would be appreciated.
>
> C..

If the party falls on one of your days of custody, unless you can
make alternative arrangements with your ex, it's your
responsibility to get your child to the party. If you're the one
taking the kid to the party, you're the one who buys the gift.

Chris Owens




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[Chris Owens]

"C. D." wrote:
>
> I know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
> hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
> other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
> (fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
> time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
> gifts?
>
> - a party in the ex's neighborhood
> - a party in my neighborhood
> - a party from a child in day care (neutral) neighborhood
> - a party from a child of the ex's friend
> - a party from a child of my friend
>
> For example, if a neighbor's children of the ex wife has a party but the party
> is on my day, I was instructed by the ex as to a) must take our child and b)
> purchase the gift.
>
> Also, what happens if all events fall on one or the other's day?
>
> Purchasing gifts are strange too since I pay lots of support.
>
> The way I think it should work is that children parties or events that are
> associated with me (my neighbors, friends, family) - I would take the child
> regardless of the day or who "has them". The same would apply to the ex.
>
> This way too, neither person is forcing the other to attend a function with
> either strangers or people that would make them feel uncomfortable.
>
> Any adice would be appreciated.
>
> C..

If the party falls on one of your days of custody, unless you can
make alternative arrangements with your ex, it's your
responsibility to get your child to the party. If you're the one
taking the kid to the party, you're the one who buys the gift.

Chris Owens




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[The Dave©]

> gini52 wrote:
> I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
> over such petty matters.
> If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that
> cuts into "visitation," so what?
> If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
> few hours away from the child while
> he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out
> of this is absurd--parents need to work
> these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
> away with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."

When everyone involved are mature adults, yes, it would be petty and
not an issue. I personally would be willing to work around parties and
the such as long as the consideration was returned when necessary.
It's the cases where the parents are not able to get along (it only
takes one to screw it up for both) that problems arise and it ends up
being best by holding to the agreement.

[The Dave©]

> gini52 wrote:
> I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
> over such petty matters.
> If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that
> cuts into "visitation," so what?
> If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
> few hours away from the child while
> he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out
> of this is absurd--parents need to work
> these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
> away with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."

When everyone involved are mature adults, yes, it would be petty and
not an issue. I personally would be willing to work around parties and
the such as long as the consideration was returned when necessary.
It's the cases where the parents are not able to get along (it only
takes one to screw it up for both) that problems arise and it ends up
being best by holding to the agreement.

[Tracy]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I'd say...
> > > >
> > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the
ex
> > > takes
> > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > ==
> > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
substantive
> > > issues.
> > > ==
> > > ==
> >
> > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the
party
> > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and
> other
> > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece
or
> > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the
> child
> > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
> ==
> I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling over
> such petty matters.
> If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts
into
> "visitation," so what?
> If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a few
> hours away from the child while
> he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of
this
> is absurd--parents need to work
> these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried away
> with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."

For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me that
understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain, straight
forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy. But
there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most petty
matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why joint
legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the parents
can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are they
going to deal with the real issues?

BTW - my two cents on this issue... if the birthday party is his side of the
family, then he deals with the party as a whole. Other than that, our son
purchases birthday gifts given to friends. I have purchased birthday gifts
given to family, since the item is from the family (not just a child). IF
the birthday party exists on a weekend that dad has our son, then I've
openly talked about the party with dad. After all, he has the final
decision in the matter if it is his weekend. Never once has dad said 'no'.
In my situation it has always been a no-brainer. I could only wish it was
that way for all.

My boyfriend doesn't have this luxury. Instead he has to think about both
sides of the family during his time. This includes Christmas. You don't
want to know what this Christmas is going to look like, because we haven't
worked out all the details. With three families, but our own(s) - we have a
lot of people to cover. Squeezing in quality family time together may
become quite the challenge. All because his ex isn't getting along with her
family due to her actions.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I'd say...
> > > >
> > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the
ex
> > > takes
> > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > ==
> > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
substantive
> > > issues.
> > > ==
> > > ==
> >
> > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the
party
> > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and
> other
> > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece
or
> > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the
> child
> > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
> ==
> I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling over
> such petty matters.
> If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts
into
> "visitation," so what?
> If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a few
> hours away from the child while
> he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of
this
> is absurd--parents need to work
> these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried away
> with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."

For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me that
understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain, straight
forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy. But
there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most petty
matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why joint
legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the parents
can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are they
going to deal with the real issues?

BTW - my two cents on this issue... if the birthday party is his side of the
family, then he deals with the party as a whole. Other than that, our son
purchases birthday gifts given to friends. I have purchased birthday gifts
given to family, since the item is from the family (not just a child). IF
the birthday party exists on a weekend that dad has our son, then I've
openly talked about the party with dad. After all, he has the final
decision in the matter if it is his weekend. Never once has dad said 'no'.
In my situation it has always been a no-brainer. I could only wish it was
that way for all.

My boyfriend doesn't have this luxury. Instead he has to think about both
sides of the family during his time. This includes Christmas. You don't
want to know what this Christmas is going to look like, because we haven't
worked out all the details. With three families, but our own(s) - we have a
lot of people to cover. Squeezing in quality family time together may
become quite the challenge. All because his ex isn't getting along with her
family due to her actions.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[gini52]

"The Dave©" > wrote in message
...
> > gini52 wrote:
> > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
> > over such petty matters.
> > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that
> > cuts into "visitation," so what?
> > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
> > few hours away from the child while
> > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out
> > of this is absurd--parents need to work
> > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
> > away with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
>
> When everyone involved are mature adults, yes, it would be petty and
> not an issue. I personally would be willing to work around parties and
> the such as long as the consideration was returned when necessary.
> It's the cases where the parents are not able to get along (it only
> takes one to screw it up for both) that problems arise and it ends up
> being best by holding to the agreement.
==
(Small rant and concession ahead) I honestly cannot understand why parents
do this but do concede it happens (see conclusion ;).
Indulge me here a little, please--This is exactly how the state came to be
involved in
our private family matters and as long as we conduct ourselves in a way that
encourages
such involvement, we will never get them (it) out of our family matters.
C'mon guys--
if you must feel a little uneasy at a birthday party with your child, is
that really enough reason to run to the court to decide whether you should
be there or who should buy the gift? We're talking what a few hours of time
and $10.00? OK, I don't think it does, but I guess some are OK with it. My
position is, and always has been, that I and my children's father will raise
our kids, thank you. To me that is a no-brainer. I don't know what
circumstances would make me view this otherwise. Genuine abuse or neglect, I
suppose. Never had to deal with that. I've been kinda careful with whom I
chose to have children and ruled out neglecters and abusers--but, I was 28
when I had my first child and we'd been happily married for 8 years. It's
been a long time since my older boys were young but the differences I recall
having with their dad were of far more substance. I was quite upset when he
left the country and he did that twice while they were little. He was
working on his master's degree and went to Russia and Ecuador for extended
periods of time. I told him I thought he could wait until they were a little
older to take off but he went anyway. He did email and write them and
brought cool stuff back for them. But, when we separated, we handled
parenting as we had when the family was intact--I did most of it. He
actually did more parenting after the divorce because I wasn't there all the
time. We still needed each other post divorce to raise the kids so neither
of us had any inclination to be beastly with the other. Most of you know
that we had no custody arrangement with our divorce. And, I can still tell
you that I cannot come to grips with the concept of dividing up kids. I just
don't get it, and I would feel the same if my now happily intact marriage
were to disintegrate. I still cannot imagine divvying up the kids. But, as
I'm reflecting on this (and dragging it out :-), I can see that Tracy had
both sides of this to deal with with two very different dads so I guess
circumstances are frequently beyond a good parent's control. OK, conclusion:
Do everything possible to avoid asking the state to make parenting decisions
for you. Don't sweat the small stuff and I guess you (collective) get to
decide what is small, not me.
==
==

[gini52]

"The Dave©" > wrote in message
...
> > gini52 wrote:
> > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
> > over such petty matters.
> > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that
> > cuts into "visitation," so what?
> > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
> > few hours away from the child while
> > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out
> > of this is absurd--parents need to work
> > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
> > away with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
>
> When everyone involved are mature adults, yes, it would be petty and
> not an issue. I personally would be willing to work around parties and
> the such as long as the consideration was returned when necessary.
> It's the cases where the parents are not able to get along (it only
> takes one to screw it up for both) that problems arise and it ends up
> being best by holding to the agreement.
==
(Small rant and concession ahead) I honestly cannot understand why parents
do this but do concede it happens (see conclusion ;).
Indulge me here a little, please--This is exactly how the state came to be
involved in
our private family matters and as long as we conduct ourselves in a way that
encourages
such involvement, we will never get them (it) out of our family matters.
C'mon guys--
if you must feel a little uneasy at a birthday party with your child, is
that really enough reason to run to the court to decide whether you should
be there or who should buy the gift? We're talking what a few hours of time
and $10.00? OK, I don't think it does, but I guess some are OK with it. My
position is, and always has been, that I and my children's father will raise
our kids, thank you. To me that is a no-brainer. I don't know what
circumstances would make me view this otherwise. Genuine abuse or neglect, I
suppose. Never had to deal with that. I've been kinda careful with whom I
chose to have children and ruled out neglecters and abusers--but, I was 28
when I had my first child and we'd been happily married for 8 years. It's
been a long time since my older boys were young but the differences I recall
having with their dad were of far more substance. I was quite upset when he
left the country and he did that twice while they were little. He was
working on his master's degree and went to Russia and Ecuador for extended
periods of time. I told him I thought he could wait until they were a little
older to take off but he went anyway. He did email and write them and
brought cool stuff back for them. But, when we separated, we handled
parenting as we had when the family was intact--I did most of it. He
actually did more parenting after the divorce because I wasn't there all the
time. We still needed each other post divorce to raise the kids so neither
of us had any inclination to be beastly with the other. Most of you know
that we had no custody arrangement with our divorce. And, I can still tell
you that I cannot come to grips with the concept of dividing up kids. I just
don't get it, and I would feel the same if my now happily intact marriage
were to disintegrate. I still cannot imagine divvying up the kids. But, as
I'm reflecting on this (and dragging it out :-), I can see that Tracy had
both sides of this to deal with with two very different dads so I guess
circumstances are frequently beyond a good parent's control. OK, conclusion:
Do everything possible to avoid asking the state to make parenting decisions
for you. Don't sweat the small stuff and I guess you (collective) get to
decide what is small, not me.
==
==

[Bob Whiteside]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> "gini52" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > >
> > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I'd say...
> > > > >
> > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If
the
> ex
> > > > takes
> > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > ==
> > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> substantive
> > > > issues.
> > > > ==
> > > > ==
> > >
> > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the
> party
> > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and
> > other
> > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece
> or
> > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the
> > child
> > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
> > ==
> > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
over
> > such petty matters.
> > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts
> into
> > "visitation," so what?
> > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a few
> > hours away from the child while
> > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of
> this
> > is absurd--parents need to work
> > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
away
> > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
>
> For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me that
> understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain, straight
> forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
But
> there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
petty
> matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
joint
> legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the parents
> can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are they
> going to deal with the real issues?

Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday party
for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?

[Bob Whiteside]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> "gini52" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > >
> > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I'd say...
> > > > >
> > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If
the
> ex
> > > > takes
> > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > ==
> > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> substantive
> > > > issues.
> > > > ==
> > > > ==
> > >
> > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the
> party
> > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and
> > other
> > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece
> or
> > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the
> > child
> > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
> > ==
> > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
over
> > such petty matters.
> > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts
> into
> > "visitation," so what?
> > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a few
> > hours away from the child while
> > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of
> this
> > is absurd--parents need to work
> > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
away
> > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
>
> For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me that
> understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain, straight
> forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
But
> there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
petty
> matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
joint
> legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the parents
> can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are they
> going to deal with the real issues?

Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday party
for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?

[Tracy]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > ink.net...
> > > >
> > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > I'd say...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If
> the
> > ex
> > > > > takes
> > > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > > ==
> > > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> > substantive
> > > > > issues.
> > > > > ==
> > > > > ==
> > > >
> > > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the
> > party
> > > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions
and
> > > other
> > > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's
niece
> > or
> > > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take
the
> > > child
> > > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
> > > ==
> > > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
> over
> > > such petty matters.
> > > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts
> > into
> > > "visitation," so what?
> > > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
few
> > > hours away from the child while
> > > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of
> > this
> > > is absurd--parents need to work
> > > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
> away
> > > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
> >
> > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me that
> > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
straight
> > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
> But
> > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
> petty
> > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
> joint
> > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the parents
> > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are they
> > going to deal with the real issues?
>
> Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday party
> for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?


No, because the communication is coming from the NCP. Instead the NCP
should pick up the child and take the child to the party. The child should
either (a) purchase the gift with the allowance given by the CP, or (b) the
NCP should purchase the gift and state the gift is from both.

Now, if the NCP's brother was friends with the CP and contacted the CP about
the party, because the NCP has a stick up their rear, then the right thing
to do is the CP should purchase the gift and state it is from the child.

It really boils down to how the communication about the party is happening -
we should always do what is best for our child. Birthday parties, and
keeping that line of communication open between family, is very important.
I personally don't care which side of the family it is on.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > ink.net...
> > > >
> > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > I'd say...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If
> the
> > ex
> > > > > takes
> > > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > > ==
> > > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> > substantive
> > > > > issues.
> > > > > ==
> > > > > ==
> > > >
> > > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the
> > party
> > > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions
and
> > > other
> > > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's
niece
> > or
> > > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take
the
> > > child
> > > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
> > > ==
> > > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
> over
> > > such petty matters.
> > > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts
> > into
> > > "visitation," so what?
> > > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
few
> > > hours away from the child while
> > > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of
> > this
> > > is absurd--parents need to work
> > > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
> away
> > > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
> >
> > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me that
> > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
straight
> > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
> But
> > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
> petty
> > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
> joint
> > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the parents
> > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are they
> > going to deal with the real issues?
>
> Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday party
> for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?


No, because the communication is coming from the NCP. Instead the NCP
should pick up the child and take the child to the party. The child should
either (a) purchase the gift with the allowance given by the CP, or (b) the
NCP should purchase the gift and state the gift is from both.

Now, if the NCP's brother was friends with the CP and contacted the CP about
the party, because the NCP has a stick up their rear, then the right thing
to do is the CP should purchase the gift and state it is from the child.

It really boils down to how the communication about the party is happening -
we should always do what is best for our child. Birthday parties, and
keeping that line of communication open between family, is very important.
I personally don't care which side of the family it is on.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Bob Whiteside]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
et...
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Tracy" > wrote in message
> > news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > > ink.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > I'd say...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s).
If
> > the
> > > ex
> > > > > > takes
> > > > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > > > ==
> > > > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> > > substantive
> > > > > > issues.
> > > > > > ==
> > > > > > ==
> > > > >
> > > > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having
the
> > > party
> > > > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions
> and
> > > > other
> > > > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's
> niece
> > > or
> > > > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take
> the
> > > > child
> > > > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a
stranger?
> > > > ==
> > > > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered
squabbling
> > over
> > > > such petty matters.
> > > > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that
cuts
> > > into
> > > > "visitation," so what?
> > > > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
> few
> > > > hours away from the child while
> > > > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out
of
> > > this
> > > > is absurd--parents need to work
> > > > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get
carried
> > away
> > > > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > > > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
> > >
> > > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me
that
> > > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
> straight
> > > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
> > But
> > > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
> > petty
> > > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
> > joint
> > > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the
parents
> > > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are
they
> > > going to deal with the real issues?
> >
> > Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> > coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday
party
> > for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> > child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
>
>
> No, because the communication is coming from the NCP. Instead the NCP
> should pick up the child and take the child to the party. The child
should
> either (a) purchase the gift with the allowance given by the CP, or (b)
the
> NCP should purchase the gift and state the gift is from both.

The first sentence above backs up the concept that I originally posted.
Communications from the NCP to the CP do not carrying the same weight as
communications from the CP to the NCP. Despite Tracy's good intentions, an
NCP cannot simply pick up the child to transport them to a party, UNLESS
the CP agrees. That was my point - where the party is held and who is
having the party drives a lot of the issues between the parents. If the CP
does not approve of the birthday party, the NCP cannot just "pick up the
child" to resolve the dispute.

[Bob Whiteside]

"Tracy" > wrote in message
et...
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Tracy" > wrote in message
> > news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > > ink.net...
> > > > >
> > > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > I'd say...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s).
If
> > the
> > > ex
> > > > > > takes
> > > > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > > > ==
> > > > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> > > substantive
> > > > > > issues.
> > > > > > ==
> > > > > > ==
> > > > >
> > > > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having
the
> > > party
> > > > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions
> and
> > > > other
> > > > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's
> niece
> > > or
> > > > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take
> the
> > > > child
> > > > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a
stranger?
> > > > ==
> > > > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered
squabbling
> > over
> > > > such petty matters.
> > > > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that
cuts
> > > into
> > > > "visitation," so what?
> > > > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
> few
> > > > hours away from the child while
> > > > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out
of
> > > this
> > > > is absurd--parents need to work
> > > > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get
carried
> > away
> > > > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > > > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
> > >
> > > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me
that
> > > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
> straight
> > > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
> > But
> > > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
> > petty
> > > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
> > joint
> > > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the
parents
> > > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are
they
> > > going to deal with the real issues?
> >
> > Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> > coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday
party
> > for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> > child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
>
>
> No, because the communication is coming from the NCP. Instead the NCP
> should pick up the child and take the child to the party. The child
should
> either (a) purchase the gift with the allowance given by the CP, or (b)
the
> NCP should purchase the gift and state the gift is from both.

The first sentence above backs up the concept that I originally posted.
Communications from the NCP to the CP do not carrying the same weight as
communications from the CP to the NCP. Despite Tracy's good intentions, an
NCP cannot simply pick up the child to transport them to a party, UNLESS
the CP agrees. That was my point - where the party is held and who is
having the party drives a lot of the issues between the parents. If the CP
does not approve of the birthday party, the NCP cannot just "pick up the
child" to resolve the dispute.

[gini52]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > ink.net...
> > > >
> > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > I'd say...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If
> the
> > ex
> > > > > takes
> > > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > > ==
> > > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> > substantive
> > > > > issues.
> > > > > ==
> > > > > ==
> > > >
> > > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the
> > party
> > > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions
and
> > > other
> > > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's
niece
> > or
> > > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take
the
> > > child
> > > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
> > > ==
> > > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
> over
> > > such petty matters.
> > > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts
> > into
> > > "visitation," so what?
> > > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
few
> > > hours away from the child while
> > > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of
> > this
> > > is absurd--parents need to work
> > > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
> away
> > > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
> >
> > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me that
> > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
straight
> > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
> But
> > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
> petty
> > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
> joint
> > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the parents
> > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are they
> > going to deal with the real issues?
>
> Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday party
> for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
==
The natural state of affairs seems to be that the NCP would take the child
to the birthday
party and if the CP hasn't already bought a gift, they should pick one up on
the way. And if the child is
tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
that's OK too.
==
==
>
>

[gini52]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > ink.net...
> > > >
> > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > I'd say...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If
> the
> > ex
> > > > > takes
> > > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > > ==
> > > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> > substantive
> > > > > issues.
> > > > > ==
> > > > > ==
> > > >
> > > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the
> > party
> > > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions
and
> > > other
> > > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's
niece
> > or
> > > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take
the
> > > child
> > > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
> > > ==
> > > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered squabbling
> over
> > > such petty matters.
> > > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that cuts
> > into
> > > "visitation," so what?
> > > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend a
few
> > > hours away from the child while
> > > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter out of
> > this
> > > is absurd--parents need to work
> > > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get carried
> away
> > > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
> >
> > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me that
> > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
straight
> > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
> But
> > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
> petty
> > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
> joint
> > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the parents
> > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are they
> > going to deal with the real issues?
>
> Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday party
> for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
==
The natural state of affairs seems to be that the NCP would take the child
to the birthday
party and if the CP hasn't already bought a gift, they should pick one up on
the way. And if the child is
tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
that's OK too.
==
==
>
>

[Tracy]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> et...
> > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > >
> > > "Tracy" > wrote in message
> > > news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > > > ink.net...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > I'd say...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s).
> If
> > > the
> > > > ex
> > > > > > > takes
> > > > > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > > > > ==
> > > > > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> > > > substantive
> > > > > > > issues.
> > > > > > > ==
> > > > > > > ==
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having
> the
> > > > party
> > > > > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation
disruptions
> > and
> > > > > other
> > > > > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's
> > niece
> > > > or
> > > > > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to
take
> > the
> > > > > child
> > > > > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a
> stranger?
> > > > > ==
> > > > > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered
> squabbling
> > > over
> > > > > such petty matters.
> > > > > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that
> cuts
> > > > into
> > > > > "visitation," so what?
> > > > > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend
a
> > few
> > > > > hours away from the child while
> > > > > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter
out
> of
> > > > this
> > > > > is absurd--parents need to work
> > > > > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get
> carried
> > > away
> > > > > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > > > > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
> > > >
> > > > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me
> that
> > > > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
> > straight
> > > > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is
easy.
> > > But
> > > > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the
most
> > > petty
> > > > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to
why
> > > joint
> > > > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the
> parents
> > > > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are
> they
> > > > going to deal with the real issues?
> > >
> > > Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> > > coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday
> party
> > > for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport
the
> > > child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
> >
> >
> > No, because the communication is coming from the NCP. Instead the NCP
> > should pick up the child and take the child to the party. The child
> should
> > either (a) purchase the gift with the allowance given by the CP, or (b)
> the
> > NCP should purchase the gift and state the gift is from both.
>
> The first sentence above backs up the concept that I originally posted.
> Communications from the NCP to the CP do not carrying the same weight as
> communications from the CP to the NCP. Despite Tracy's good intentions,
an
> NCP cannot simply pick up the child to transport them to a party, UNLESS
> the CP agrees. That was my point - where the party is held and who is
> having the party drives a lot of the issues between the parents. If the
CP
> does not approve of the birthday party, the NCP cannot just "pick up the
> child" to resolve the dispute.


Bob - no one is disagreeing with you that the CP has the final word when it
is their weekend. The point some are trying to make is the real issue
shouldn't be an issue. On top of that, I answered the question as if I was
the CP. I would have no problem with my son's father picking him up for a
birthday party. If that birthday party was a friend's kid, family, etc.
The relationship between him and I is much better than bickering over
birthday parties.

Also - see Gini's comment concerning the $10 gift thing. For the life of me
I don't understand those parents who insist on purchasing items over $10 for
a friend's birthday. Especially when they are young. As they get older,
the child should be doing it on their own - and without their parents
involvement. It allows the child to grow and develop a since of closeness
to their friends.



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Tracy" > wrote in message
> et...
> > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > >
> > > "Tracy" > wrote in message
> > > news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> > > > > ink.net...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "gini52" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > I'd say...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s).
> If
> > > the
> > > > ex
> > > > > > > takes
> > > > > > > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > > > > > > ==
> > > > > > > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more
> > > > substantive
> > > > > > > issues.
> > > > > > > ==
> > > > > > > ==
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having
> the
> > > > party
> > > > > > and where it is located can spill over into visitation
disruptions
> > and
> > > > > other
> > > > > > issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's
> > niece
> > > > or
> > > > > > nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to
take
> > the
> > > > > child
> > > > > > to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a
> stranger?
> > > > > ==
> > > > > I have to disagree, Bob. My ex and I never even considered
> squabbling
> > > over
> > > > > such petty matters.
> > > > > If the party is at the ex's relatives, the ex takes them. If that
> cuts
> > > > into
> > > > > "visitation," so what?
> > > > > If the relationship were intact, both parents would have to spend
a
> > few
> > > > > hours away from the child while
> > > > > he/she attends a party or other function. Making a court matter
out
> of
> > > > this
> > > > > is absurd--parents need to work
> > > > > these very mundane matters out between themselves and not get
> carried
> > > away
> > > > > with "legalities" of attending a birthday party.
> > > > > "That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it."
> > > >
> > > > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me
> that
> > > > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
> > straight
> > > > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is
easy.
> > > But
> > > > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the
most
> > > petty
> > > > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to
why
> > > joint
> > > > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the
> parents
> > > > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are
> they
> > > > going to deal with the real issues?
> > >
> > > Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> > > coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday
> party
> > > for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport
the
> > > child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
> >
> >
> > No, because the communication is coming from the NCP. Instead the NCP
> > should pick up the child and take the child to the party. The child
> should
> > either (a) purchase the gift with the allowance given by the CP, or (b)
> the
> > NCP should purchase the gift and state the gift is from both.
>
> The first sentence above backs up the concept that I originally posted.
> Communications from the NCP to the CP do not carrying the same weight as
> communications from the CP to the NCP. Despite Tracy's good intentions,
an
> NCP cannot simply pick up the child to transport them to a party, UNLESS
> the CP agrees. That was my point - where the party is held and who is
> having the party drives a lot of the issues between the parents. If the
CP
> does not approve of the birthday party, the NCP cannot just "pick up the
> child" to resolve the dispute.


Bob - no one is disagreeing with you that the CP has the final word when it
is their weekend. The point some are trying to make is the real issue
shouldn't be an issue. On top of that, I answered the question as if I was
the CP. I would have no problem with my son's father picking him up for a
birthday party. If that birthday party was a friend's kid, family, etc.
The relationship between him and I is much better than bickering over
birthday parties.

Also - see Gini's comment concerning the $10 gift thing. For the life of me
I don't understand those parents who insist on purchasing items over $10 for
a friend's birthday. Especially when they are young. As they get older,
the child should be doing it on their own - and without their parents
involvement. It allows the child to grow and develop a since of closeness
to their friends.



Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> OK, conclusion:
> Do everything possible to avoid asking the state to make parenting
decisions
> for you. Don't sweat the small stuff and I guess you (collective) get to
> decide what is small, not me.

exactly :)


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> OK, conclusion:
> Do everything possible to avoid asking the state to make parenting
decisions
> for you. Don't sweat the small stuff and I guess you (collective) get to
> decide what is small, not me.

exactly :)


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Tracy" > wrote in message
> > news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > > >
> > > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me
that
> > > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
> straight
> > > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
> > But
> > > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
> > petty
> > > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
> > joint
> > > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the
parents
> > > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are
they
> > > going to deal with the real issues?
> >
> > Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> > coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday
party
> > for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> > child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
> ==
> The natural state of affairs seems to be that the NCP would take the child
> to the birthday
> party and if the CP hasn't already bought a gift, they should pick one up
on
> the way. And if the child is
> tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
> that's OK too.


100% agreed... after all - the birthday party is for the children. Not the
parents. What is best for the child? To go to the party and have fun. It
doesn't matter if the child goes directly home to the CP's home or stays the
night at the NCP's home. What is important is the child is cared for,
loved, has fun, receives plenty of sleep, and is fed an over abundant of
cake and ice cream. :)


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"gini52" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Whiteside" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Tracy" > wrote in message
> > news:p3u9b.464613$YN5.309624@sccrnsc01...
> > > >
> > > For the most part, I agree with you Gini, but there is a part of me
that
> > > understands Bob's take. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brain,
> straight
> > > forward, easy situation to handle. For many, if not most, it is easy.
> > But
> > > there are some who are less fortunate than the rest and even the most
> > petty
> > > matters become large court battles. This is a good example as to why
> > joint
> > > legal custody fails - if not true shared parenting time. If the
parents
> > > can't agree over something that is so simple to deal with, how are
they
> > > going to deal with the real issues?
> >
> > Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> > coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday
party
> > for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> > child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
> ==
> The natural state of affairs seems to be that the NCP would take the child
> to the birthday
> party and if the CP hasn't already bought a gift, they should pick one up
on
> the way. And if the child is
> tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
> that's OK too.


100% agreed... after all - the birthday party is for the children. Not the
parents. What is best for the child? To go to the party and have fun. It
doesn't matter if the child goes directly home to the CP's home or stays the
night at the NCP's home. What is important is the child is cared for,
loved, has fun, receives plenty of sleep, and is fed an over abundant of
cake and ice cream. :)


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Melvin Gamble]

That's the big issue, Bob...

Bob Whiteside wrote:
>
> "gini52" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'd say...
> > >
> > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
> > takes
> > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > ==
> > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
> > issues.
> > ==
> > ==
>
> It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the party
> and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and other
> issues.

...., the dirsuptions. My experience is that the cost of the type of
presents that are sort of "expected" at these things isn't likely to
break most parents, unless your child is so popular that the parties are
frequent. But my time with my daughter is OUR time to do the things
that WE plan. If mom gets an invitation that falls on one of our days,
she should turn it over to me at the earliest opportunity so that WE -
my daughter and I - can make the decision whether to accept the
invitation or go ahead with our plans to make use of possibly the last
good weather of the season and go to the zoo, or catch the latest Disney
movie before it finishes it's run in the theater, or go to the county
fair which only lasts 4 days, or to do the many things we plan ahead for
that may not be so easy to do another day. THEN, if WE decide that the
party wins out, WE will get an appropriate gift.

Whichever parent makes the go/nogo decision should be responsible for
the gift, but the parent making the decision should be the parent the
child will be with on the day in question.

>As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece or
> nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the child
> to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
>
> I think parents have to be reasonable about these situations and make
> visitation accommodations to make it work. I also believe the parent where
> the birthday invitation was received should purchase the gift for the child
> to take. My reasoning is that parent has the advanced notice of the party
> and is the parent responsible for the RSVP.

I don't believe EITHER parent should be allowed to RSVP the other
parent's time with the child.

> As an NCP I had a few issues with parties early on. Several times I found
> out the party was on Saturday on the Friday night I picked up the children
> and I *needed* to buy a present for them to take.

You see, in our case the cost of the present would be less than the cost
of the movie tickets I might have bought on Thursday for the Saturday
matinee, or worth less to us than the last sunny day at the beach...

> I resolved this scenario
> by insisting the children bring a pre-purchased gift with them for the
> visitation or, at a minimum, the money to purchase the gift before the
> party.

I don't have to worry about it...mom spends every weekend at the
boyfriend's house 70 miles away in the wrong direction, so nobody in her
circle ever invites my daughter to anything. And if my daughter gets an
invitation at school or something, she brings it to my attention and
doesn't even bother with trying to get mom's attention long enough to
tell her about it...

Mel Gamble

[Melvin Gamble]

That's the big issue, Bob...

Bob Whiteside wrote:
>
> "gini52" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "GudGye11" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I'd say...
> > >
> > > If YOU take the children to the party, you buy the gift(s). If the ex
> > takes
> > > them to the party, then she buys the gift(s)
> > ==
> > Agreed. This seems a no-brainer. Save disagreements for more substantive
> > issues.
> > ==
> > ==
>
> It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the party
> and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and other
> issues.

...., the dirsuptions. My experience is that the cost of the type of
presents that are sort of "expected" at these things isn't likely to
break most parents, unless your child is so popular that the parties are
frequent. But my time with my daughter is OUR time to do the things
that WE plan. If mom gets an invitation that falls on one of our days,
she should turn it over to me at the earliest opportunity so that WE -
my daughter and I - can make the decision whether to accept the
invitation or go ahead with our plans to make use of possibly the last
good weather of the season and go to the zoo, or catch the latest Disney
movie before it finishes it's run in the theater, or go to the county
fair which only lasts 4 days, or to do the many things we plan ahead for
that may not be so easy to do another day. THEN, if WE decide that the
party wins out, WE will get an appropriate gift.

Whichever parent makes the go/nogo decision should be responsible for
the gift, but the parent making the decision should be the parent the
child will be with on the day in question.

>As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece or
> nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the child
> to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?
>
> I think parents have to be reasonable about these situations and make
> visitation accommodations to make it work. I also believe the parent where
> the birthday invitation was received should purchase the gift for the child
> to take. My reasoning is that parent has the advanced notice of the party
> and is the parent responsible for the RSVP.

I don't believe EITHER parent should be allowed to RSVP the other
parent's time with the child.

> As an NCP I had a few issues with parties early on. Several times I found
> out the party was on Saturday on the Friday night I picked up the children
> and I *needed* to buy a present for them to take.

You see, in our case the cost of the present would be less than the cost
of the movie tickets I might have bought on Thursday for the Saturday
matinee, or worth less to us than the last sunny day at the beach...

> I resolved this scenario
> by insisting the children bring a pre-purchased gift with them for the
> visitation or, at a minimum, the money to purchase the gift before the
> party.

I don't have to worry about it...mom spends every weekend at the
boyfriend's house 70 miles away in the wrong direction, so nobody in her
circle ever invites my daughter to anything. And if my daughter gets an
invitation at school or something, she brings it to my attention and
doesn't even bother with trying to get mom's attention long enough to
tell her about it...

Mel Gamble

[C. D.]

In article >, "gini52" > wrote:
transport the
>> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
>==
>The natural state of affairs seems to be that the NCP would take the child
>to the birthday
>party and if the CP hasn't already bought a gift, they should pick one up on
>the way. And if the child is
>tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
>that's OK too.

riiiigghhht.....

That works when people are mature and really care about the children. In my
case, the ex would be over so fast it would make your head spin with agreement
in hand.

I started this thread and I have seen a lot of great comments which give me
food for thought. Unfortunately when your ex (I am not sure if I feel like
calling her the CP and me the NCP or am I the CP when the kids are with me?)
is using the chilren against you, denying access and controlling, these are
not 'trivial' issues. Sad, isn't it.

[C. D.]

In article >, "gini52" > wrote:
transport the
>> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
>==
>The natural state of affairs seems to be that the NCP would take the child
>to the birthday
>party and if the CP hasn't already bought a gift, they should pick one up on
>the way. And if the child is
>tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
>that's OK too.

riiiigghhht.....

That works when people are mature and really care about the children. In my
case, the ex would be over so fast it would make your head spin with agreement
in hand.

I started this thread and I have seen a lot of great comments which give me
food for thought. Unfortunately when your ex (I am not sure if I feel like
calling her the CP and me the NCP or am I the CP when the kids are with me?)
is using the chilren against you, denying access and controlling, these are
not 'trivial' issues. Sad, isn't it.

[C. D.]

In article <IFv9b.465201$YN5.315448@sccrnsc01>, "Tracy" > wrote:
>"gini52" > wrote in message

>> the way. And if the child is
>> tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
>> that's OK too.
>
>
>100% agreed... after all - the birthday party is for the children. Not the
>parents. What is best for the child? To go to the party and have fun. It
>doesn't matter if the child goes directly home to the CP's home or stays the
>night at the NCP's home. What is important is the child is cared for,
>loved, has fun, receives plenty of sleep, and is fed an over abundant of
>cake and ice cream. :)

riiigghhttt... see my previous post. :(

[C. D.]

In article <IFv9b.465201$YN5.315448@sccrnsc01>, "Tracy" > wrote:
>"gini52" > wrote in message

>> the way. And if the child is
>> tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
>> that's OK too.
>
>
>100% agreed... after all - the birthday party is for the children. Not the
>parents. What is best for the child? To go to the party and have fun. It
>doesn't matter if the child goes directly home to the CP's home or stays the
>night at the NCP's home. What is important is the child is cared for,
>loved, has fun, receives plenty of sleep, and is fed an over abundant of
>cake and ice cream. :)

riiigghhttt... see my previous post. :(

[Chris Owens]

Bob Whiteside wrote:
>
> Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday party
> for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?

Yes; part of keeping the child healthy, well, and integrated into
the families -- and that is PLURAL -- is not ostracizing all the
other relatives just because your ex-spouse IS an ex. Fer Pete's
sake, how much control does it take to courteously deliver a
child to a front door, gift in hand, and retrieve said child at a
later point in time?

Chris Owens




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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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[Chris Owens]

Bob Whiteside wrote:
>
> Right. So let's reverse the scenario. The NCP tells the CP that this
> coming weekend (not a normal visitation weekend) there is a birthday party
> for his brother's child. Should the CP buy a present and transport the
> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?

Yes; part of keeping the child healthy, well, and integrated into
the families -- and that is PLURAL -- is not ostracizing all the
other relatives just because your ex-spouse IS an ex. Fer Pete's
sake, how much control does it take to courteously deliver a
child to a front door, gift in hand, and retrieve said child at a
later point in time?

Chris Owens




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

C. D. > wrote:
: I know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
: hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
: other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
: (fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
: time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
: gifts?


Why not have two birthday parties? One at each parent/location?

Our custody order indicates that whomever has parenting time on the
child's birthday has the child. If it's not on "my week", we have it a few
days later at my place. Each parent buys the child whatever gifts they
wish. Works fine. It also establishes a base of friends at each
of the parent's residence.

b.

C. D. > wrote:
: I know this has come up before, and I tried to search deja/google but too many
: hits were returned. I was wondering how people handle birthday parties and
: other events that the children are invited to. I share the children 30/70
: (fighting for 50/50). Since the actual day may be on either mine or my ex's
: time with our children, who should take the child and who should purchase the
: gifts?


Why not have two birthday parties? One at each parent/location?

Our custody order indicates that whomever has parenting time on the
child's birthday has the child. If it's not on "my week", we have it a few
days later at my place. Each parent buys the child whatever gifts they
wish. Works fine. It also establishes a base of friends at each
of the parent's residence.

b.

[PapaPolarBear]

"C. D." > wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
> ... who should take the child and who should purchase the
> gifts?
>
> - a party in the ex's neighborhood
> - a party in my neighborhood
> - a party from a child in day care (neutral) neighborhood
> - a party from a child of the ex's friend
> - a party from a child of my friend
>
> For example, if a neighbor's children of the ex wife has a party but the
party
> is on my day, I was instructed by the ex as to a) must take our child and
b)
> purchase the gift.
>

IMHO: The gift should be bought by the person who agrees to the event. In
the event that you are the parent asked, you say yes and get the gift. If
it's your weekend then you take the child, it's not about you after all,
it's about the child. Most events do not require parental involvement, those
that do... why not just be the best you can be and if the other parent is
the sort to put you down, you prove them wrong by example.

> Also, what happens if all events fall on one or the other's day?

Inform them of the event, check with them even. Then send the present along.

> Purchasing gifts are strange too since I pay lots of support.

It's $10... and while this may seem costly, the time specnt with the child
picking the gift can be good.

Papa

[PapaPolarBear]

"C. D." > wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
> ... who should take the child and who should purchase the
> gifts?
>
> - a party in the ex's neighborhood
> - a party in my neighborhood
> - a party from a child in day care (neutral) neighborhood
> - a party from a child of the ex's friend
> - a party from a child of my friend
>
> For example, if a neighbor's children of the ex wife has a party but the
party
> is on my day, I was instructed by the ex as to a) must take our child and
b)
> purchase the gift.
>

IMHO: The gift should be bought by the person who agrees to the event. In
the event that you are the parent asked, you say yes and get the gift. If
it's your weekend then you take the child, it's not about you after all,
it's about the child. Most events do not require parental involvement, those
that do... why not just be the best you can be and if the other parent is
the sort to put you down, you prove them wrong by example.

> Also, what happens if all events fall on one or the other's day?

Inform them of the event, check with them even. Then send the present along.

> Purchasing gifts are strange too since I pay lots of support.

It's $10... and while this may seem costly, the time specnt with the child
picking the gift can be good.

Papa

[Tracy]

"C. D." > wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
> In article >, "gini52"
> wrote:
> transport the
> >> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
> >==
> >The natural state of affairs seems to be that the NCP would take the
child
> >to the birthday
> >party and if the CP hasn't already bought a gift, they should pick one up
on
> >the way. And if the child is
> >tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
> >that's OK too.
>
> riiiigghhht.....
>
> That works when people are mature and really care about the children. In
my
> case, the ex would be over so fast it would make your head spin with
agreement
> in hand.
>
> I started this thread and I have seen a lot of great comments which give
me
> food for thought. Unfortunately when your ex (I am not sure if I feel like
> calling her the CP and me the NCP or am I the CP when the kids are with
me?)
> is using the chilren against you, denying access and controlling, these
are
> not 'trivial' issues. Sad, isn't it.

I feel you missed the point. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brainer,
because they are trivial. What you are going through is another subject.
You asked for opinions concerning birthdays. You received opinions
concerning just that - birthdays. What you didn't do was tell us your real
issue, then use birthdays as an example.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to tell you. It is horrible your ex
is a selfish person who doesn't believe in raising healthy children.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[Tracy]

"C. D." > wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
> In article >, "gini52"
> wrote:
> transport the
> >> child to a party being held by her former brother-in-law?
> >==
> >The natural state of affairs seems to be that the NCP would take the
child
> >to the birthday
> >party and if the CP hasn't already bought a gift, they should pick one up
on
> >the way. And if the child is
> >tired upon return from the party and wants to crash at the NCP's house,
> >that's OK too.
>
> riiiigghhht.....
>
> That works when people are mature and really care about the children. In
my
> case, the ex would be over so fast it would make your head spin with
agreement
> in hand.
>
> I started this thread and I have seen a lot of great comments which give
me
> food for thought. Unfortunately when your ex (I am not sure if I feel like
> calling her the CP and me the NCP or am I the CP when the kids are with
me?)
> is using the chilren against you, denying access and controlling, these
are
> not 'trivial' issues. Sad, isn't it.

I feel you missed the point. Birthday parties *should be* a no-brainer,
because they are trivial. What you are going through is another subject.
You asked for opinions concerning birthdays. You received opinions
concerning just that - birthdays. What you didn't do was tell us your real
issue, then use birthdays as an example.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to tell you. It is horrible your ex
is a selfish person who doesn't believe in raising healthy children.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***

[GudGye11]

In article et>, "Bob
Whiteside" > writes:

>It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the party
>and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and other
>issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece or
>nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the child
>to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?

I still think it's a good rule of thumb. No, I wouldn't mind paying for a gift
for a child of my ex's relatives...I'm buying the gift for MY SON who is going
to give it to his cousin. Maybe I'm a little bit more accomodating in that
area...but I also would have no problem in taking the kid over there, nor would
I have a problem with taking him to the ex's co-worker's house, either. I
would trust that my ex wouldn't allow our son to go to a stranger's house who
wasn't fit, just as I know she knows I wouldn't send our son to a stranger's
house who wasn't fit.

I believe that over the entire term of a visitation/custody arrangement (like
18 years) I would imagine the number of birthday parties each would have to
deal with would pretty much be consistent with the amount of time each spent
with the children. In other words, I don't think the NCP parent would be
saddled with an unsually burdensome gift expenditure, since you can figure if
the child spends 20% of the time with the NCP, over the long haul the NCP would
have to pay for roughly 20% of the birthday parties. Not a huge problem, in my
opinion, but then again...people can (and do) make it into a problem.

My ex-wife and I have bene divorced since 1995, and she's never tried to get me
to "chip-in" on any birthday presents, nor have I tried to get her to buy any,
either.

[GudGye11]

In article et>, "Bob
Whiteside" > writes:

>It's not that straight forward. My experience is who is having the party
>and where it is located can spill over into visitation disruptions and other
>issues. As an example - say the birthday party is for your ex's niece or
>nephew or your ex's co-worker's child. Would an NCP want to take the child
>to a party at his former in-laws house or to the home of a stranger?

I still think it's a good rule of thumb. No, I wouldn't mind paying for a gift
for a child of my ex's relatives...I'm buying the gift for MY SON who is going
to give it to his cousin. Maybe I'm a little bit more accomodating in that
area...but I also would have no problem in taking the kid over there, nor would
I have a problem with taking him to the ex's co-worker's house, either. I
would trust that my ex wouldn't allow our son to go to a stranger's house who
wasn't fit, just as I know she knows I wouldn't send our son to a stranger's
house who wasn't fit.

I believe that over the entire term of a visitation/custody arrangement (like
18 years) I would imagine the number of birthday parties each would have to
deal with would pretty much be consistent with the amount of time each spent
with the children. In other words, I don't think the NCP parent would be
saddled with an unsually burdensome gift expenditure, since you can figure if
the child spends 20% of the time with the NCP, over the long haul the NCP would
have to pay for roughly 20% of the birthday parties. Not a huge problem, in my
opinion, but then again...people can (and do) make it into a problem.

My ex-wife and I have bene divorced since 1995, and she's never tried to get me
to "chip-in" on any birthday presents, nor have I tried to get her to buy any,
either.