bedtime routine for 3rd baby

[Nevermind]

Hi. My 3rd child is now 7 months old and is generally still up and
about with the family, made to sit/lie/nurse/play/nurse/be pacified
through whatever it is we're doing until 9 or 9:30 at night, when she
finally conks so far out in my arms that I put her in her crib. She
has no bedtime routine and I know this is too late for her to be up
(she starts acting tired by 8). I am concerned about this because (1)
she often ends up being up a lot during the night, and I think it may
be due to going down overtired; (2) I am not "training" her to go to
sleep by herself at all -- throughout the evening, I am pacifying her
crankiness with the breast and pacifier. MY 2 older kids were both
great. reliable sleepers by 12 months -- including my 2nd, who was a
terrible sleeper but who I was so disciplined about that I (gently)
had her able to sleep on her own by 12 months.

The problem is that before this baby arrived, my 2 older kids had
well-established routines that we are all loath to give up. For
example, they are used to getting nice long bedtime books (and they
are 3 years apart, so they do need different books, one from DH, one
from me, which uses up both parents).

I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts and experiences on
setting up a reasonable bedtime routine for "later" children in busy
households with already-established evening routines. Did you just
never get around to it and the baby coped? Did you disrupt the older
kids' routines so you could get the baby onto one?

[Ericka Kammerer]

Nevermind wrote:

> Hi. My 3rd child is now 7 months old and is generally still up and
> about with the family, made to sit/lie/nurse/play/nurse/be pacified
> through whatever it is we're doing until 9 or 9:30 at night, when she
> finally conks so far out in my arms that I put her in her crib. She
> has no bedtime routine and I know this is too late for her to be up
> (she starts acting tired by 8). I am concerned about this because (1)
> she often ends up being up a lot during the night, and I think it may
> be due to going down overtired; (2) I am not "training" her to go to
> sleep by herself at all -- throughout the evening, I am pacifying her
> crankiness with the breast and pacifier. MY 2 older kids were both
> great. reliable sleepers by 12 months -- including my 2nd, who was a
> terrible sleeper but who I was so disciplined about that I (gently)
> had her able to sleep on her own by 12 months.
>
> The problem is that before this baby arrived, my 2 older kids had
> well-established routines that we are all loath to give up. For
> example, they are used to getting nice long bedtime books (and they
> are 3 years apart, so they do need different books, one from DH, one
> from me, which uses up both parents).
>
> I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts and experiences on
> setting up a reasonable bedtime routine for "later" children in busy
> households with already-established evening routines. Did you just
> never get around to it and the baby coped? Did you disrupt the older
> kids' routines so you could get the baby onto one?


I'm not quite sure of the problem here...what's the
time frame involved? I.e., when do the older kids go to bed
and how long do their bedtime routines take? Without specifics,
my inclination would be to put the baby to bed before the older
kids if you're having trouble keeping her up through the bedtime
routines. If before the bedtime routines is too early and afterwards
is too late, then maybe one has to shorten the bedtime routines
somewhat. How old are the older children? I would imagine that
if the bedtime stories are the real problem, they could learn to
have stories some other time of day rather than just before bedtime.
I do think that you have to find something that works for the whole
family.

In our case, #3 is still too little to be settled into
a schedule, but we're moving toward staggered bedtimes here.
The oldest (8) goes to bed at 8pm and the second (almost 6) goes
at 7:30pm. We'll probably shoot for the baby having a bedtime
around 8:30pm when she's ready for that (because she'll be able
to sleep in a bit longer in the morning). Eventually, she'll
have a bedtime before the boys. That said, the boys have
minimal bedtime routines. Dad does the bedtime routines and
spends some time with each and occasionally does stories, but
we moved stories to the daytime, where they work better for us.
Bedtime stories turned into a massive delaying tactic and as
they got older, the stories got too long to accommodate. We'd
have to start getting ready for bed too early in order to have
time for stories *and* get them to sleep in time that they
wouldn't be grouchy the next day. And really, I like doing
stories better during the day. There's more opportunity to
discuss and do other activities related to the stories then.
They do sometimes spend a little time in the evening winding
down by reading to themselves, but it's rare that we read to
them before bed anymore.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Kate J]

(Nevermind) wrote in message >...

> I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts and experiences on
> setting up a reasonable bedtime routine for "later" children in busy
> households with already-established evening routines. Did you just
> never get around to it and the baby coped? Did you disrupt the older
> kids' routines so you could get the baby onto one?

Our kids are 9, 6 and 16 months and we solve this problem by aiming
for them all go to bed at more-or-less the same time, which is 8 pm.
This means that the middle child is always slightly underslept but she
refuses to go to bed earlier than her big sister, and the baby and the
oldest one seeem to have the same sleep requirements (if they go to
bed at 8, both get up spontaneously at 6.15 or thereabouts).

We don't have a long shutdown routine though because we depend on the
evenings to catch up on work missed during the day (my DH works from
home and my work day is truncated by my commute so I have to make it
up later). At the moment our house is being rebuilt around our ears
and we are camping in a small no. of rooms with the three kids crammed
in the one bedroom, so for now, we are putting the baby to bed first
(at 8) so that she is asleep by the time the others go to bed (15-45
min later).

I agree with setting a schedule for sleeping - we have been quite
strict about the 8 pm thing with the baby and she is pretty settled
now, even with all the building disruption.

Kate

[Ericka Kammerer]

Nevermind wrote:


> As I continue to think through what I need to do, and as I have read
> the 3 responses to my post, it is becoming clear that I'm going to
> need to bite the bullet and give up some of our luxurious bedtime
> routine in order to "add one in" for the baby -- who probably "needs"
> it the most right now, even though her older sibs (8 and 5) are very
> attached to theirs. Each of the older kids currently gets read to by
> one of the parents for at least an hour every night now, and,
> honestly, it is a time we all just love. But, due to the schedules we
> all have for the hours prior to bedtime, that reading hour inevitably
> takes place just when the baby appears ready to go to bed herself. I
> have warned all that things will be changing in September. Either my
> DH will take turns reading to one one night and the other the next, or
> both kids will get shorter reads, so that I have time to spend just
> with the baby, getting her to sleep with a routine and at a reasonable
> hour. Thanks!


Is it really impossible to consolidate and read to both
older kids at the same time? My older kids are 8.5 and almost-6,
so they're about the same age, and we find that while they can't
read the same kinds of books *to themselves*, when it comes to
reading *to them* they can enjoy the same books. Of course,
there are the occasional disagreements over which book to do
next, but we work through those. I know that doesn't give each
child the one-on-one time, but perhaps there's another way to
accomplish that at some other time during the day. Honestly,
we couldn't manage with two separate hours of reading time
at bedtime every day even with just two kids!
Also, I do think it might go over better if you move
things around rather than just taking away from their bedtime.
For instance, if you shorten (or even eliminate) their bedtime
read (and maybe allow them to read to themselves before bed),
you could read to them at some other part of the day that works
better for everyone.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Rosalie B.]

x-no-archive:yes Ericka Kammerer > wrote:

>Nevermind wrote:
>
>> Hi. My 3rd child is now 7 months old and is generally still up and
>> about with the family, made to sit/lie/nurse/play/nurse/be pacified
>> through whatever it is we're doing until 9 or 9:30 at night, when she
>> finally conks so far out in my arms that I put her in her crib. She
>> has no bedtime routine and I know this is too late for her to be up
>> (she starts acting tired by 8). I am concerned about this because (1)
>> she often ends up being up a lot during the night, and I think it may
>> be due to going down overtired; (2) I am not "training" her to go to
>> sleep by herself at all -- throughout the evening, I am pacifying her
>> crankiness with the breast and pacifier. MY 2 older kids were both
>> great. reliable sleepers by 12 months -- including my 2nd, who was a
>> terrible sleeper but who I was so disciplined about that I (gently)
>> had her able to sleep on her own by 12 months.
>>
>> The problem is that before this baby arrived, my 2 older kids had
>> well-established routines that we are all loath to give up. For
>> example, they are used to getting nice long bedtime books (and they
>> are 3 years apart, so they do need different books, one from DH, one
>> from me, which uses up both parents).
>>
>> I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts and experiences on
>> setting up a reasonable bedtime routine for "later" children in busy
>> households with already-established evening routines. Did you just
>> never get around to it and the baby coped? Did you disrupt the older
>> kids' routines so you could get the baby onto one?

My two oldest are two years apart, and the next one is 5+ years
younger. Generally, the baby coped with whatever we did. I did have
a rough schedule as I did with the others, and I did not do family bed
or anything although they were all bf on a more or less demand
schedule.

My older two always had their bedtime at the same time and at the same
place because they were sleeping in bunk beds in the same room when
the baby was born. The room was too small for two single beds. They
went to bed at the same time because the older one needed more sleep
than the younger one.

I do not think your older two actually need different books. My
sister and I are 2.5 years apart and we never had different books.

However -- having said that, I think what you need to consider is
whether the purpose of the bedtime routine is reading, or if it is
one-on-one time with a parent. I suspect it is one-on-one time that
is the most precious rather than the reading part.

If it is reading, that's much easier to deal with. Let them be read
to for 1/2 hour together, and then let them read to themselves for 1/2
hour. That will take only one parent and the other one can deal with
the baby.

If you want some one-on-one time to be integrated into the bedtime
routine though, which I BTW think is a good idea, then that routine
wouldn't suit.

What you might want to do is let one of the kids have time with their
dad while the other one helps you with putting the baby down to sleep
(bath? or whatever). And then dad has one-on-one with the one on baby
duty afterwards while the first one reads to herself. And the next
night they could switch.

Or you can probably think of other things that will work as well. My
idea is that I don't want the fact that there are other things other
than being read to which are important.



grandma Rosalie