Do I tell?

[Tiffany]

Well, I just found out that S's father died from an overdose of cocaine and
menth.
..

Though it does not surprise me, I know this information can be pretty hard
on S. Part of me wants to hide it from her but I don't like the idea of
secrets. Part of me knows that this can be a BIG deterrent from her ever
doing drugs, when she comes to that part of her teenage years.

So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through, (whether I
agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.

Thanks guys/gals.

T

[lm]

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:10:47 -0400, "Tiffany" >
wrote:

>Well, I just found out that S's father died from an overdose of cocaine and
>menth.

No way. She doesn't need to know. Unless she's been walking around
saying "do you really think it was a heart attack?" then why add to
her burden?

>
>Though it does not surprise me, I know this information can be pretty hard
>on S. Part of me wants to hide it from her but I don't like the idea of
>secrets.

Santa Claus, everything will be ok, your dad died of a heart attack,
I'll always take care of you. None are true.

Sometimes the hard truth doesn't have to be shared. It's not as though
his death under any circumstances wasn't hastened by his lifestyle.
Keeping the ugly details to yourself doesn't mean you're lying to her.

>Part of me knows that this can be a BIG deterrent from her ever
>doing drugs, when she comes to that part of her teenage years.

And it could also be a big way for her to try to identify with him, if
she ends up headed in that direction.

>So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through, (whether I
>agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
>
>Thanks guys/gals.

I do not envy your position, T.

lm

[Tiffany]

"lm" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:10:47 -0400, "Tiffany" >
> wrote:
>
> >Well, I just found out that S's father died from an overdose of cocaine
and
> >menth.
>
> No way. She doesn't need to know. Unless she's been walking around
> saying "do you really think it was a heart attack?" then why add to
> her burden?

Well, we pretty much knew it wasn't a heart attack. That would have showed
up in the altopsy and then the toxicology report wouldn't have been so
important, or necessary for that matter.

>
> >
> >Though it does not surprise me, I know this information can be pretty
hard
> >on S. Part of me wants to hide it from her but I don't like the idea of
> >secrets.
>
> Santa Claus, everything will be ok, your dad died of a heart attack,
> I'll always take care of you. None are true.

I still don't lie about Santa Claus though! lol Well, sometimes, but just
to be funny. You don't think everything will be ok? I do. And I don't tell
her I will always take care of her. I tell her I will do what I can for as
long as I can or choice too.

>
> Sometimes the hard truth doesn't have to be shared. It's not as though
> his death under any circumstances wasn't hastened by his lifestyle.
> Keeping the ugly details to yourself doesn't mean you're lying to her.

If she does ask.... Mom... why did he die? Did they ever find out? I will
have to lie then if I don't tell her the truth. I also worry because in the
end, truths are uncovered. Skeletons stay hidden only so long. Do I want to
be the one she comes back to and asks why I didn't tell her the truth?

>
> >Part of me knows that this can be a BIG deterrent from her ever
> >doing drugs, when she comes to that part of her teenage years.
>
> And it could also be a big way for her to try to identify with him, if
> she ends up headed in that direction.

True... those are the things I think I am going to talk to a pro about.

>
> >So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through,
(whether I
> >agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
> >
> >Thanks guys/gals.
>
> I do not envy your position, T.
>
> lm

Me either. Thanks for the input. All input is welcome.

T

[Moon Shyne]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "lm" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:10:47 -0400, "Tiffany" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Well, I just found out that S's father died from an overdose of cocaine
> and
> > >menth.
> >
> > No way. She doesn't need to know. Unless she's been walking around
> > saying "do you really think it was a heart attack?" then why add to
> > her burden?
>
> Well, we pretty much knew it wasn't a heart attack. That would have showed
> up in the altopsy and then the toxicology report wouldn't have been so
> important, or necessary for that matter.
>
> >
> > >
> > >Though it does not surprise me, I know this information can be pretty
> hard
> > >on S. Part of me wants to hide it from her but I don't like the idea of
> > >secrets.
> >
> > Santa Claus, everything will be ok, your dad died of a heart attack,
> > I'll always take care of you. None are true.
>
> I still don't lie about Santa Claus though! lol Well, sometimes, but just
> to be funny. You don't think everything will be ok? I do. And I don't tell
> her I will always take care of her. I tell her I will do what I can for as
> long as I can or choice too.
>
> >
> > Sometimes the hard truth doesn't have to be shared. It's not as though
> > his death under any circumstances wasn't hastened by his lifestyle.
> > Keeping the ugly details to yourself doesn't mean you're lying to her.
>
> If she does ask.... Mom... why did he die? Did they ever find out? I will
> have to lie then if I don't tell her the truth. I also worry because in the
> end, truths are uncovered. Skeletons stay hidden only so long. Do I want to
> be the one she comes back to and asks why I didn't tell her the truth?

If she comes out and asks, then I'd tell her the truth, if it were me - she's
old enough to understand, and will have signalled her desire for truthful
information by asking.

My former stepson died from a one car, alcohol induced car accident - and while
I didn't hammer to my kids how he died, when they asked, I told them the truth -
he had too much to drink, lost control of the car and as a result died. They
handled it pretty well, and the older one has come back to me and thanked me for
telling her the truth.

>
> >
> > >Part of me knows that this can be a BIG deterrent from her ever
> > >doing drugs, when she comes to that part of her teenage years.
> >
> > And it could also be a big way for her to try to identify with him, if
> > she ends up headed in that direction.
>
> True... those are the things I think I am going to talk to a pro about.

If your daughter is currently in counselling, then perhaps talk to her therapist
and get some feedback, and probably some suggestions, as to how to handle it
when the question finally comes up (and it probably will)

>
> >
> > >So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through,
> (whether I
> > >agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
> > >
> > >Thanks guys/gals.
> >
> > I do not envy your position, T.
> >
> > lm
>
> Me either. Thanks for the input. All input is welcome.
>
> T
>
>

[Joelle]

>If she does ask.... Mom... why did he die? Did they ever find out? I will
>have to lie then if I don't tell her the truth. I also worry because in the
>end, truths are uncovered. Skeletons stay hidden only so long. Do I want to
>be the one she comes back to and asks why I didn't tell her the truth?

This is a hard call and it sounds to me like you do want to tell her, but first
ask yourself what the benefit is to HER, not you. Yes, it will be a burden to
you to keep it and to lie, yes it will be uncomfortable to explain it to her if
she finds out later, but that's the advantage to YOU to tell her. What
advantage is it to her?

I know these days there seems to be some kind of philosophy that children have
a right to know everything there is to know about their parents. I don't
agree.

I can't see any benefit to her to know, (I agree that the deterent effect is
iffy at best) other than some kind of esoteric idea that "it's the truth" which
I still think is more about making you feel better than her.

If you decide there is no benefit and don't tell her and she finds out later
and asks you why you can honestly tell her the truth - you saw no benefit to
her for her to know at the time.

Also there's no hurry. If you think she needs to know at some point, she
doesn't necesarily need to know now.

But it's a hard call. Honestly don't know what I'd do.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Tiffany]

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> >If she does ask.... Mom... why did he die? Did they ever find out? I will
> >have to lie then if I don't tell her the truth. I also worry because in
the
> >end, truths are uncovered. Skeletons stay hidden only so long. Do I want
to
> >be the one she comes back to and asks why I didn't tell her the truth?
>
> This is a hard call and it sounds to me like you do want to tell her, but
first
> ask yourself what the benefit is to HER, not you. Yes, it will be a
burden to
> you to keep it and to lie, yes it will be uncomfortable to explain it to
her if
> she finds out later, but that's the advantage to YOU to tell her. What
> advantage is it to her?
>
> I know these days there seems to be some kind of philosophy that children
have
> a right to know everything there is to know about their parents. I don't
> agree.
>
> I can't see any benefit to her to know, (I agree that the deterent effect
is
> iffy at best) other than some kind of esoteric idea that "it's the truth"
which
> I still think is more about making you feel better than her.
>
> If you decide there is no benefit and don't tell her and she finds out
later
> and asks you why you can honestly tell her the truth - you saw no benefit
to
> her for her to know at the time.
>
> Also there's no hurry. If you think she needs to know at some point, she
> doesn't necesarily need to know now.
>
> But it's a hard call. Honestly don't know what I'd do.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

I am diffently going to sit on this for a bit and think it out. Luckily I
know that his family will respect my wish for her not to know at this point.
How upsetting for them, to find this out. I feel so bad for them. His father
isn't going to tell anyone, other then me, his ex-wife and the brother. And
the girlfriend too of course. I guess it is shameful (???) and embarrassing.
I think no matter how you want to keep it a secret it will get out.

T

[Tiffany]

"'Kate" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:10:47 -0400, "Tiffany" >
> wrote:
>
> >Well, I just found out that S's father died from an overdose of cocaine
and
> >menth.
> >.
> >
> >Though it does not surprise me, I know this information can be pretty
hard
> >on S. Part of me wants to hide it from her but I don't like the idea of
> >secrets. Part of me knows that this can be a BIG deterrent from her ever
> >doing drugs, when she comes to that part of her teenage years.
> >
> >So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through,
(whether I
> >agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
> >
> >Thanks guys/gals.
> >
> >T
>
> Sure wish I had some good advice for you but I'm still waiting out the
> repercussions of having told my children that their father died from
> taking an overdose of pain medicines. I might have the answer in 10
> years.... any idea if that's within your time frame for holding off?
> Hmmm.. probably not.

I hadn't realized he died that way. Was the overdose intentional? Sometimes
people taking pain medicines become accustom to the drug and need more to
get any relief. Before they know it, they have taken way to many. I didn't
mean to bring this up if you don't want to talk about it, ignore it. S's dad
was in chronic pain and on meds.

>
> The thing is... S's father didn't mean to die. It was not
> intentional. He made a mistake. His drug use got out of hand.

I have to wonder a bit about that. I don't know how easy it is to over-dose
on those drugs..... I guess it is easy, as you buy from someone and you
don't really know the potency of the drug and whatnot. Plus the body can
only take so much so with pain meds, illegal drugs.... yeah, it will only
last so long. But with everyone swearing up and down that he was clean, part
of me wonders if he was just tired of the pain, he knew he was to lose a leg
within the year, he had another baby coming...... I guess I will always
wonder. Then I wonder if S is wondering if he killed himself. All this
wondering.

>
> He contacted her and fully meant to maintain that contact... but as
> you suspected (and this confirms) he was using. Your instincts were
> right. You questioned his ability to have a good relationship with
> your daugther because of what you saw in his emails. Your instincts
> were right. Let your instincts tell you what to do now. You know
> your daughter better than anyone else.
>
> 'Kate
>

Blah to instincts! :) I believe the best thing is to hold off a bit, there
is no hurry. Soon she will be into a grief program here, but they won't take
her until 6 months after the deaths. I will be able to talk to them, I will
talk to someone at the local NA and get some advice there too.

Thanks.
T

[V]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I just found out that S's father died from an overdose of cocaine and
> menth.
> .
>
> Though it does not surprise me, I know this information can be pretty hard
> on S. Part of me wants to hide it from her but I don't like the idea of
> secrets. Part of me knows that this can be a BIG deterrent from her ever
> doing drugs, when she comes to that part of her teenage years.
>
> So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through, (whether I
> agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
>
> Thanks guys/gals.
>
> T
>
>

I would.
I would also seek counseling for her as well to deal with this news and also
the death, etc..
V

[Purchgdss]

>Well, I just found out that S's father died from an overdose of cocaine and
>menth.
>.
>
>Though it does not surprise me, I know this information can be pretty hard
>on S. Part of me wants to hide it from her but I don't like the idea of
>secrets. Part of me knows that this can be a BIG deterrent from her ever
>doing drugs, when she comes to that part of her teenage years.
>
>So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through, (whether I
>agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
>
>Thanks guys/gals.
>
>T
>
It will be less of a deterrent than you think. Don't forget they are 10 ft
tall and bulletproof. She wasn't close to her dad from what you have said and
may adopt the "yeah, but he's an asshole, I'm not so it wont get ME" attitude.

I see this in my own son. His dad took it upon himself to tell him about his
addictions, their contribution to his not being there, his suicide attempts,
etc. THANKFULLY the only thing he didn't tell him about was that he contracted
AIDS.

His dad is a long term survivor (well over 10 years now since diagnosed thanks
to medications and 5 years after that getting clean and sober and staying that
way).

My son is not involved with his dad, by his dad's choice. Even with a
frightening illness like that I would never deny my son knowing him.

Will this induce my son to wear a condom if he has premarital sex? I can only
pray....... He will be 15 this year, and I have the task of telling him about
his dad's illness because he is of age to become sexually active.

Only time will tell if he avoids the drugs and drinking part of his youth. I
see the bulletproof part of his personality and pray.

Just my 2 cents.........
Christine

[Tiffany]

"Purchgdss" > wrote in message
...
> >Well, I just found out that S's father died from an overdose of cocaine
and
> >menth.
> >.
> >
> >Though it does not surprise me, I know this information can be pretty
hard
> >on S. Part of me wants to hide it from her but I don't like the idea of
> >secrets. Part of me knows that this can be a BIG deterrent from her ever
> >doing drugs, when she comes to that part of her teenage years.
> >
> >So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through,
(whether I
> >agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
> >
> >Thanks guys/gals.
> >
> >T
> >
> It will be less of a deterrent than you think. Don't forget they are 10
ft
> tall and bulletproof. She wasn't close to her dad from what you have said
and
> may adopt the "yeah, but he's an asshole, I'm not so it wont get ME"
attitude.
>
> I see this in my own son. His dad took it upon himself to tell him about
his
> addictions, their contribution to his not being there, his suicide
attempts,
> etc. THANKFULLY the only thing he didn't tell him about was that he
contracted
> AIDS.
>
> His dad is a long term survivor (well over 10 years now since diagnosed
thanks
> to medications and 5 years after that getting clean and sober and staying
that
> way).
>
> My son is not involved with his dad, by his dad's choice. Even with a
> frightening illness like that I would never deny my son knowing him.
>
> Will this induce my son to wear a condom if he has premarital sex? I can
only
> pray....... He will be 15 this year, and I have the task of telling him
about
> his dad's illness because he is of age to become sexually active.
>
> Only time will tell if he avoids the drugs and drinking part of his youth.
I
> see the bulletproof part of his personality and pray.
>
> Just my 2 cents.........
> Christine

Ahh, how true. 'That won't happen to ME!"

What does your son think of his father's addictions, that he isn't a part of
his life, ect? To bad the father can't tell him about his AID's and how it
has effected his life. It could be an eye opener. Most people don't realize
just how much AID's can effect your life unless you see it happening. Of
course with the meds, even it isn't sounding as bad as it use to.

Your son is 15? Have the talk. ;)

T

[denanson]

"Tiffany" wrote in message
>
> So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through, (whether
I
> agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.

Wait for the questions.

Dennis

[Tiffany]

"denanson" <Dennis@Large .ie> wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" wrote in message
> >
> > So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through,
(whether
> I
> > agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
>
> Wait for the questions.
>
> Dennis
>
>

She has asked but not since I knew the answer. I will stall for time, trust
me.

I spoke with her Grandmother and she is just upset and angry and sad. I feel
so bad for her. Then I get ****ed at him for putting her through this,
because she is such a great women. She is like my second Mom but better
because more a friend.

Next day I have to myself, I am going to make some phone calls to drug
hotlines or wherever and find someone to talk to about this.

T

[Tiffany]

"'Kate" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:22:22 +0100, "denanson" <Dennis@Large .ie>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Tiffany" wrote in message
> >>
> >> So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through,
(whether
> >I
> >> agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
> >
> >Wait for the questions.
> >
> >Dennis
>
>
> Perhaps the age and disposition of the child matters. Some kids
> imagine the worst. Many children won't ask even if they want to know
> because they fear making a parent sad.
>
> Plus, knowing ones' family history is important.
>
> 'Kate

I think she will ask again, but it might be some time away. I am still
thinking this all out and going to search out some professional help.

Thanks.
T

[P.Fritz]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "'Kate" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:22:22 +0100, "denanson" <Dennis@Large .ie>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Tiffany" wrote in message
> > >>
> > >> So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through,
> (whether
> > >I
> > >> agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
> > >
> > >Wait for the questions.
> > >
> > >Dennis
> >
> >
> > Perhaps the age and disposition of the child matters. Some kids
> > imagine the worst. Many children won't ask even if they want to know
> > because they fear making a parent sad.
> >
> > Plus, knowing ones' family history is important.
> >
> > 'Kate
>
> I think she will ask again, but it might be some time away. I am still
> thinking this all out and going to search out some professional help.

Yeah........she will ask at the absolute worst time....... kids seem to have
that incredible sense of timing :-)

>
> Thanks.
> T
>
>

[Tiffany]

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "'Kate" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:22:22 +0100, "denanson" <Dennis@Large .ie>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >"Tiffany" wrote in message
> > > >>
> > > >> So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through,
> > (whether
> > > >I
> > > >> agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
> > > >
> > > >Wait for the questions.
> > > >
> > > >Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps the age and disposition of the child matters. Some kids
> > > imagine the worst. Many children won't ask even if they want to know
> > > because they fear making a parent sad.
> > >
> > > Plus, knowing ones' family history is important.
> > >
> > > 'Kate
> >
> > I think she will ask again, but it might be some time away. I am still
> > thinking this all out and going to search out some professional help.
>
> Yeah........she will ask at the absolute worst time....... kids seem to
have
> that incredible sense of timing :-)
>
> >


Yeah! Like in front of a bunch of people or something, or worse yet, when I
am in a bad mood. lol

T

[P.Fritz]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "'Kate" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 18:22:22 +0100, "denanson" <Dennis@Large .ie>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >"Tiffany" wrote in message
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through,
> > > (whether
> > > > >I
> > > > >> agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
> > > > >
> > > > >Wait for the questions.
> > > > >
> > > > >Dennis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps the age and disposition of the child matters. Some kids
> > > > imagine the worst. Many children won't ask even if they want to
know
> > > > because they fear making a parent sad.
> > > >
> > > > Plus, knowing ones' family history is important.
> > > >
> > > > 'Kate
> > >
> > > I think she will ask again, but it might be some time away. I am still
> > > thinking this all out and going to search out some professional help.
> >
> > Yeah........she will ask at the absolute worst time....... kids seem to
> have
> > that incredible sense of timing :-)
> >
> > >
>
>
> Yeah! Like in front of a bunch of people or something, or worse yet, when
I
> am in a bad mood. lol

BOTH LOL

>
> T
>
>

[Purchgdss]

>What does your son think of his father's addictions, that he isn't a part of
>his life, ect? To bad the father can't tell him about his AID's and how it
>has effected his life. It could be an eye opener. Most people don't realize
>just how much AID's can effect your life unless you see it happening. Of
>course with the meds, even it isn't sounding as bad as it use to.
>
>Your son is 15? Have the talk. ;)
>
Honestly, my son thinks he's an asshole, hence the 10 foot tall and
bulletproof. Whether the story had ANY effect (other than to cause my son to
lose all respect for a father he barely knew, and now he feels contempt for
his weaknesses).

My son has taken the self-protective route of supposedly not caring whether his
father is involved. I know how it hurts him (as it would any child) but he
blocks that out.

The last conversation I had with his father (over a year ago) was that he
couldn't POSSIBLY have his son come visit because he just moved in with a new
girlfriend and had too much going on.

I have had "the talk" with him (actually, I've been very open and answered his
questions to the best of my ability and his ability to understand) over the
years. I think he feels somewhat comfortable talking to me about it as needed
as he was telling me about how the boys at school were talking about
masturbating with lotion (as twisted as this may seem, I was ENCOURAGED that he
could talk to me about that but, after all, I'm a woman and only know so much
about male stuff).

Even with meds, it proves to be a miserable existence for those with AIDS.

Just my 2 cents.........
Christine

[CME]

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I just found out that S's father died from an overdose of cocaine
and
> menth.
> .
>
> Though it does not surprise me, I know this information can be pretty hard
> on S. Part of me wants to hide it from her but I don't like the idea of
> secrets. Part of me knows that this can be a BIG deterrent from her ever
> doing drugs, when she comes to that part of her teenage years.
>
> So I know I always get advice that helps me think things through, (whether
I
> agree totally or not) and I am sending out the advice call again.
>
> Thanks guys/gals.
>
> T
>

Unless she asked outright I wouldn't offer up the information until she's
old enough and further removed from the situation (hence give her more
time.) It's a very difficult situation, mostly because I would want to tell
my children and perhaps try to gleam something from such a horrible
experience, but then again, some truths are hurtful. :( Either way you go
Tif, you have my support.

Christine