Just got out of jail...

[Fido]

Werebat > wrote in :


>
> I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
> matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
> others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?


Boy that suck.

Makes you kind of sympathetic to John Mohammad, though, doesn't it? Man,
what a bunch of fukking a-holes.

Best - Fido




>
> - Ron ^*^

[Fido]

Werebat > wrote in :


>
> I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
> matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
> others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?


Boy that suck.

Makes you kind of sympathetic to John Mohammad, though, doesn't it? Man,
what a bunch of fukking a-holes.

Best - Fido




>
> - Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

So here's my account of the last couple of days...

For those of you who don't know me, a few preliminaries. I'm a
30-year-old man living in the state of Rhode Island who was divorced
three years ago. I have one three-year-old son, and I share joint
custody of him (both legal and physical) with my ex-wife. I have him 50%
of the time.

My ex and I mediated our divorce fairly amicably. She suffers from
mental illness and I do not believe that she will ever be able to support
herself independently. My feelings for her consist primarily of
pity and frustration. There have been times when I have been tempted to
seek sole custody of our son, or at least contact DCYF, due to the
condition of her apartment, his clothes when returned to me, etc. I have
not yet acted on this, however, and I think she is sincerely trying to be
a good mother to him (he also does not exhibit any discomfort or fear of
her). Recently, she has managed to get and keep a job, which she has
worked at for the last two months or so.

Very early Sunday morning (2:00 am), I was driving home from a night of
cards at a friend's house with my godfather's nephew (a minor) in the
passenger seat. I was pulled over by a police officer for "driving
suspiciously" (???) and learned that there was a warrant out for my
arrest for non-payment of child support. This was a bit of a mystery to
me, as I see my ex frequently and have never missed a CS payment.
However, I had no choice but to submit as the officer handcuffed me and
loaded me into the back of his cruiser. My car was towed, and the minor
in the passenger seat was also taken to the station (in a different
cruiser) and held there until his father came to pick him up.

Now at the station in East Providence I was dressed down and put into a
cell. The officers there were quite professional and fairly courteous,
although they were probably just returning the courtesy I offered them.
I understood that they were just doing their jobs and not personally
responsible for my situation. Still, I was a bit perturbed, and nervous
-- why was there a warrant out for my arrest? How had I missed a
payment? I had seen my ex-wife earlier that same day, and she had
mentioned nothing about it to me. I remembered giving her her checks for
December. What was this about?

I called my father and told him what was going on. The officer who
brought me in had informed me that since the courts were not open on
Sunday I would be held until Monday morning at the earliest, and I would
have to be sent to the ACI in the meantime. He also informed me that
because my warrant was a Family Court matter, I was not eligible for
bail. He had no idea about the exact nature of my case and told me I
would have to wait until Monday to find out.

I called my ex-wife. We are not exactly close friends, but we are on
fair terms and try to work together to benefit our son. She sounded more
shocked than I was that I was in jail, and insisted that it had nothing
to do with her. She was also a bit upset because she had to work that
morning and was counting on my being available to watch our son, as I am
scheduled to do on Sunday mornings. She even went so far as to call the
police station and insist that I had made all of my child support
payments on time, and offered to arrive in person and verify if it would
change matters. She was told that this would accomplish nothing, that
they had no authority to release prisoners of the Family Court until they
had seen a judge.

However, their attitude towards me softened even more. Clearly my
situation was making little sense to them as well at this point.

I spent the December night in a cold, bare, unfurnished cell wearing only
jeans and a T-shirt. I lay on the floor, too cold and nervous to sleep.
My cellmate, a disheveled man who looked to be sleeping off an
overindulgence of alcohol or worse, snored loudly all night. In the
morning, I was processed and shipped to the ACI. I still had no idea why
I was in prison.

My family, my girlfriend, and my ex were all nearly as upset and
confused as I was. No one knew what was going on. On crackling prison
phones I was asked things by family and friends such as, "Aren't they
supposed to tell you *why* you are being arrested?" I had always thought
the same. To be held for non-payment of child support when my ex herself
was calling in, willing to appear and dismiss the charges, seemed to make
no sense to anyone.

I spent the rest of Sunday being processed at the ACI, and finally got to
sleep in a cot with something resembling a mattress. I would have to
miss work on Monday to appear in court.

Eventually the night passed. There was snow in the morning and some
fear that we would be processed too slowly to make court, but we got
through. I had all of thirty seconds to talk to my lawyer, who I had not
been able to access during my processing at the ACI, before being whisked
away to the courtroom where I was finally told why I had been imprisoned.

My lawyer told the judge the one thing I had had time to tell him -- that
I had no idea why I had been arrested, and that I had received no notice
that anything was wrong. The judge produced a document which she
proceeded to wave about and announced that I had received a summons to
appear in court and had not arrived. I said that I had no recollection
of being required to appear in court recently, and the document was shown
to me -- and indeed, I had signed it.

It was a summons to appear in court over a year ago, a summons that my ex
had also received. In fact we had both missed the court date, and had
briefly discussed the matter when we had realized our error. She had
called the Family Court and told me that she was informed that the matter
was a mere formality; because she was going on welfare, I was now
required to mail my child support checks to the Family Court instead of
to her directly. She was given the address, which she forwarded to me,
and told not to worry about having missed the court date because she
already had all the information she needed.

Understand that at that particular moment, in court, I had not been able
to shower in two days... My hair, about two feet long, was out of its
normal neat pony tail (my elastic had been removed at the ACI for fear, I
suppose, that I might hang myself in my cell or shoot someone in the
eye with it) and flying out in all directions... I had not been able to
shave in three or four days. In handcuffs, I looked for all the world
about as upstanding a citizen as Charles Manson. I had also not slept or
eaten much in the last two days, and had not been allowed to consult
fully with my lawyer. I did not remember the details of that particular
document, or how my ex and I had been told that the matter had been
resoleved. I blinked and admitted that I did recall signing the summons
to appear in court.

The judge went on smugly to point out an interesting detail in my divorce
decree that had escaped the notice of both myself and my ex. As I said
before, we had mediated our divorce, and come up with our own terms of
what was fair and agreeable regarding many things, including child
support. We were told by our mediator and my lawyer that the mediation
agreement would be formalized by the judge -- not altered by him.
However...

The official amount of child support I was obligated to pay my ex was
some fifty dollars higher in the divorce decree than it was in the
mediation agreement.

For about three years, neither my ex nor myself had noticed.

This, then, was why I had been arrested. The Family Court and the
Welfare Department knew very well how much money the divorce decree had
ordered, and by their reckoning I had short-changed them. And, legally,
they were in the right on this point. It had been an honest mistake on
my part, and something that could have been easily cleared up with a
simple phone call or letter, but apparently the Family Court prefers to
handle their mosquitoes with elephant guns.

My ex informed me some ten months ago that I was not to pay the family
courts directly anymore, and that I was to begin paying her directly
again. I remember checking up on this -- again with an undocumented
phone call to the Family Court system -- and being told that my account
was fine and that what she had told me was true, I was not to pay them
directly anymore. She is still, however, on disabity and welfare
(apparently her job does not earn enough money to cause her problems with
this). The judge would not answer my questions and my lawyer was not
certain if I would be ordered to pay money to the Family Court system for
the past ten months I had been paying my ex directly -- that will have to
be figured out in court at an upcoming date. I was, however, ordered to
make the full payment ordered in the divorce decree to the Family Court
starting on January 1st.

My lawyer tells me that the courts will be seeking an even greater amount
of child support now, and that I am going to have to gear up to deal with
it (a prosecuting attorney tried to get the judge to order full child
support based on my $60,000 a year salary in court today, even though I
have my son half of the time and I do not actually earn that much money;
my lawyer was able to convince the judge to wait on that until the next
court date).

Interestingly, my ex's name is being used in the court case by the
prosecution -- "Jennifer X" vs. "Ronald X". I spoke with my ex about
this and we wondered if it were actually legal for the court system to
use someone's name to prosecute something without that person's consent.

Of course this is all about money, and naturally the Welfare Department
wants to spend as little money as possible on my ex (the CS money I pay
them stays with them and is considered part of the Welfare money they pay
her). Ideally they would like me to pay all of her Welfare.

While I can understand their desire to save themselves some money, I do
find it strange that a man can be incarcerated for close to two days and
not actually know why he is being incarcerated beyond the vague
"non-payment of child support" (when his ex-wife is there insisting
that he has paid her in full!)... That a judge can subtly alter a
mediation agreement without bringing the matter to the attention of
either party in the divorce... That a matter that could be handled with
a simple letter or phone call is dealt with in such a heavy-handed and
traumatic manner as discretely issuing an arrest warrant... and finally,
that a state department can use a person's name without their permission
in order to prosecute a lawsuit!

I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?

- Ron ^*^

[Annie]

"Werebat" > wrote in message

> I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
> matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
> others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?
>
> - Ron ^*^

Ron........

They do what they want, when they want, irregardless........my 20 year old
son was arrested unlawfully when he called to report his car stolen a couple
months ago, and spent 8 days/7 nights in jail for no cause......illegally

This is a kid with absolutley no record who had never been in
trouble.......about a month before, he'd missed a court date on a speeding
ticket, immediately a warrant was issued and that evening an officer came to
arrest him......he wasn't here.......

Very next day he got ahold of the court clerk and explained what had
happened (the court date was Tues, he thought it was a Thurs), she gave him
a new court date and removed the warrant........

The next week he went to court and made the 1st payment on the ticket

This officer returned after that and refused to listen to what I told him,
that there was no more warrant and he should check with the court (this is a
very small town, I might add)

2 or 3 weeks later, he came home and found his car had been
stolen.......when he called to report it, he was arrested......he tried to
tell this officer (same one) he had no warrant but he wouldn't
listen.......and he couldn't prove he'd been to court, as his receipt/papers
were in the stolen car..........

There was no warrant on the computer at the county jail either, only the
original paper warrant this officer had........

I had no money, so my son had to sit in county with the gang bangers and
dopers for 8 days and 7 nights...........

When he got to court, the judge wanted to know why he was there and he told
her he didn't know..........
She cleared the ticket, and told him the city owed him an apology........
Since this officer has apparently done other unscruptulous things (my
understanding), he was put on 3 months unpaid suspension and a good chance
of "possible transfer"............(whoopdee doo)

I have lost all respect, much less faith in this system
Seems they can do anything they want, with few real consequences
I don't think this man should ever be an officer again, myself
And I think removing a ticket and an apology is pretty lame, as well

I would very much like to see him talk to someone about possibley suing the
city/officer, but he can't even talk about this......he had been working
hard to get that car up and running and a little money saved, in order to go
back to CO and get himself in school..........now he's just "lost" sorta
He'll never feel safe around cops, I think, now......imagine.........20
years old and green as grass and the car you've worked on for hours and
hours and spent every spare dime you have to get running is
stolen........and you are arrested.......and then have to stay in there that
long...........how would you feel or think?

Welcome to the real world of "Police State"
They can do anything they want to you and get away with it, it's just that
simple............
Unless of course, you have political/business/money connections..........

Hope you don't ever go through anything like this again (at least anytime
soon)
Time we all learned to goosestep..................!
I'll bet Saddam is treated better than this, sheesh

[Annie]

"Werebat" > wrote in message

> I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
> matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
> others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?
>
> - Ron ^*^

Ron........

They do what they want, when they want, irregardless........my 20 year old
son was arrested unlawfully when he called to report his car stolen a couple
months ago, and spent 8 days/7 nights in jail for no cause......illegally

This is a kid with absolutley no record who had never been in
trouble.......about a month before, he'd missed a court date on a speeding
ticket, immediately a warrant was issued and that evening an officer came to
arrest him......he wasn't here.......

Very next day he got ahold of the court clerk and explained what had
happened (the court date was Tues, he thought it was a Thurs), she gave him
a new court date and removed the warrant........

The next week he went to court and made the 1st payment on the ticket

This officer returned after that and refused to listen to what I told him,
that there was no more warrant and he should check with the court (this is a
very small town, I might add)

2 or 3 weeks later, he came home and found his car had been
stolen.......when he called to report it, he was arrested......he tried to
tell this officer (same one) he had no warrant but he wouldn't
listen.......and he couldn't prove he'd been to court, as his receipt/papers
were in the stolen car..........

There was no warrant on the computer at the county jail either, only the
original paper warrant this officer had........

I had no money, so my son had to sit in county with the gang bangers and
dopers for 8 days and 7 nights...........

When he got to court, the judge wanted to know why he was there and he told
her he didn't know..........
She cleared the ticket, and told him the city owed him an apology........
Since this officer has apparently done other unscruptulous things (my
understanding), he was put on 3 months unpaid suspension and a good chance
of "possible transfer"............(whoopdee doo)

I have lost all respect, much less faith in this system
Seems they can do anything they want, with few real consequences
I don't think this man should ever be an officer again, myself
And I think removing a ticket and an apology is pretty lame, as well

I would very much like to see him talk to someone about possibley suing the
city/officer, but he can't even talk about this......he had been working
hard to get that car up and running and a little money saved, in order to go
back to CO and get himself in school..........now he's just "lost" sorta
He'll never feel safe around cops, I think, now......imagine.........20
years old and green as grass and the car you've worked on for hours and
hours and spent every spare dime you have to get running is
stolen........and you are arrested.......and then have to stay in there that
long...........how would you feel or think?

Welcome to the real world of "Police State"
They can do anything they want to you and get away with it, it's just that
simple............
Unless of course, you have political/business/money connections..........

Hope you don't ever go through anything like this again (at least anytime
soon)
Time we all learned to goosestep..................!
I'll bet Saddam is treated better than this, sheesh

[Phil #3]

It could have been (and may yet get) worse. According to:
http://www.forejustice.org
at least 59 out of 308 wrongfully sentenced to death were actually executed
after being wrongfully convicted; 775 were convicted of murder and
imprisoned; 159 were convicted of rape...
Many states simply offer an apology after ruining the lives of these people
and their families.
The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.
Phil #3


"Annie" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Werebat" > wrote in message
>
> > I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
> > matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
> > others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?
> >
> > - Ron ^*^
>
> Ron........
>
> They do what they want, when they want, irregardless........my 20 year
old
> son was arrested unlawfully when he called to report his car stolen a
couple
> months ago, and spent 8 days/7 nights in jail for no cause......illegally
>
> This is a kid with absolutley no record who had never been in
> trouble.......about a month before, he'd missed a court date on a speeding
> ticket, immediately a warrant was issued and that evening an officer came
to
> arrest him......he wasn't here.......
>
> Very next day he got ahold of the court clerk and explained what had
> happened (the court date was Tues, he thought it was a Thurs), she gave
him
> a new court date and removed the warrant........
>
> The next week he went to court and made the 1st payment on the ticket
>
> This officer returned after that and refused to listen to what I told him,
> that there was no more warrant and he should check with the court (this is
a
> very small town, I might add)
>
> 2 or 3 weeks later, he came home and found his car had been
> stolen.......when he called to report it, he was arrested......he tried to
> tell this officer (same one) he had no warrant but he wouldn't
> listen.......and he couldn't prove he'd been to court, as his
receipt/papers
> were in the stolen car..........
>
> There was no warrant on the computer at the county jail either, only the
> original paper warrant this officer had........
>
> I had no money, so my son had to sit in county with the gang bangers and
> dopers for 8 days and 7 nights...........
>
> When he got to court, the judge wanted to know why he was there and he
told
> her he didn't know..........
> She cleared the ticket, and told him the city owed him an apology........
> Since this officer has apparently done other unscruptulous things (my
> understanding), he was put on 3 months unpaid suspension and a good chance
> of "possible transfer"............(whoopdee doo)
>
> I have lost all respect, much less faith in this system
> Seems they can do anything they want, with few real consequences
> I don't think this man should ever be an officer again, myself
> And I think removing a ticket and an apology is pretty lame, as well
>
> I would very much like to see him talk to someone about possibley suing
the
> city/officer, but he can't even talk about this......he had been working
> hard to get that car up and running and a little money saved, in order to
go
> back to CO and get himself in school..........now he's just "lost" sorta
> He'll never feel safe around cops, I think, now......imagine.........20
> years old and green as grass and the car you've worked on for hours and
> hours and spent every spare dime you have to get running is
> stolen........and you are arrested.......and then have to stay in there
that
> long...........how would you feel or think?
>
> Welcome to the real world of "Police State"
> They can do anything they want to you and get away with it, it's just that
> simple............
> Unless of course, you have political/business/money connections..........
>
> Hope you don't ever go through anything like this again (at least anytime

> soon)
> Time we all learned to goosestep..................!
> I'll bet Saddam is treated better than this, sheesh
>
>

[Phil #3]

It could have been (and may yet get) worse. According to:
http://www.forejustice.org
at least 59 out of 308 wrongfully sentenced to death were actually executed
after being wrongfully convicted; 775 were convicted of murder and
imprisoned; 159 were convicted of rape...
Many states simply offer an apology after ruining the lives of these people
and their families.
The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.
Phil #3


"Annie" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "Werebat" > wrote in message
>
> > I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
> > matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
> > others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?
> >
> > - Ron ^*^
>
> Ron........
>
> They do what they want, when they want, irregardless........my 20 year
old
> son was arrested unlawfully when he called to report his car stolen a
couple
> months ago, and spent 8 days/7 nights in jail for no cause......illegally
>
> This is a kid with absolutley no record who had never been in
> trouble.......about a month before, he'd missed a court date on a speeding
> ticket, immediately a warrant was issued and that evening an officer came
to
> arrest him......he wasn't here.......
>
> Very next day he got ahold of the court clerk and explained what had
> happened (the court date was Tues, he thought it was a Thurs), she gave
him
> a new court date and removed the warrant........
>
> The next week he went to court and made the 1st payment on the ticket
>
> This officer returned after that and refused to listen to what I told him,
> that there was no more warrant and he should check with the court (this is
a
> very small town, I might add)
>
> 2 or 3 weeks later, he came home and found his car had been
> stolen.......when he called to report it, he was arrested......he tried to
> tell this officer (same one) he had no warrant but he wouldn't
> listen.......and he couldn't prove he'd been to court, as his
receipt/papers
> were in the stolen car..........
>
> There was no warrant on the computer at the county jail either, only the
> original paper warrant this officer had........
>
> I had no money, so my son had to sit in county with the gang bangers and
> dopers for 8 days and 7 nights...........
>
> When he got to court, the judge wanted to know why he was there and he
told
> her he didn't know..........
> She cleared the ticket, and told him the city owed him an apology........
> Since this officer has apparently done other unscruptulous things (my
> understanding), he was put on 3 months unpaid suspension and a good chance
> of "possible transfer"............(whoopdee doo)
>
> I have lost all respect, much less faith in this system
> Seems they can do anything they want, with few real consequences
> I don't think this man should ever be an officer again, myself
> And I think removing a ticket and an apology is pretty lame, as well
>
> I would very much like to see him talk to someone about possibley suing
the
> city/officer, but he can't even talk about this......he had been working
> hard to get that car up and running and a little money saved, in order to
go
> back to CO and get himself in school..........now he's just "lost" sorta
> He'll never feel safe around cops, I think, now......imagine.........20
> years old and green as grass and the car you've worked on for hours and
> hours and spent every spare dime you have to get running is
> stolen........and you are arrested.......and then have to stay in there
that
> long...........how would you feel or think?
>
> Welcome to the real world of "Police State"
> They can do anything they want to you and get away with it, it's just that
> simple............
> Unless of course, you have political/business/money connections..........
>
> Hope you don't ever go through anything like this again (at least anytime

> soon)
> Time we all learned to goosestep..................!
> I'll bet Saddam is treated better than this, sheesh
>
>

[Fido]

"Phil #3" > wrote in
ink.net:


> The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.


I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
will.


Best - Fido



Maine "Walk for DHS Accountability"

http://www.tfcm.org/


> Phil #3

[Fido]

"Phil #3" > wrote in
ink.net:


> The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.


I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
will.


Best - Fido



Maine "Walk for DHS Accountability"

http://www.tfcm.org/


> Phil #3

[Kenneth S.]

Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
minorities, etc., etc.?

And here's another question? WHY are the courts (and the police, and
the whole legal system) in the U.S. so conspicuously free of
accountability for what they do in this context? The answer, to me, has
to be that heterosexual males, who are the only ones subjected to this
kind of treatment, are the one remaining official scapegoat group in the
U.S.

This kind of thing will keep happening until fathers (and men
generally) have some way of fighting for their rights.



Fido wrote:
>
> "Phil #3" > wrote in
> ink.net:
>
> > The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.
>
> I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
> apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
> damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
> doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
> outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
> any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
> will.
>
> Best - Fido
>
> Maine "Walk for DHS Accountability"
>
> http://www.tfcm.org/
>
> > Phil #3

[Kenneth S.]

Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
minorities, etc., etc.?

And here's another question? WHY are the courts (and the police, and
the whole legal system) in the U.S. so conspicuously free of
accountability for what they do in this context? The answer, to me, has
to be that heterosexual males, who are the only ones subjected to this
kind of treatment, are the one remaining official scapegoat group in the
U.S.

This kind of thing will keep happening until fathers (and men
generally) have some way of fighting for their rights.



Fido wrote:
>
> "Phil #3" > wrote in
> ink.net:
>
> > The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.
>
> I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
> apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
> damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
> doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
> outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
> any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
> will.
>
> Best - Fido
>
> Maine "Walk for DHS Accountability"
>
> http://www.tfcm.org/
>
> > Phil #3

[DrLith]

"Kenneth S." > wrote in message
...
> Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
> outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
> the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
> minorities, etc., etc.?

No possibility whatsoever. Nosiree bob. Racial minorities, homosexuals, etc.
etc. are never harrassed by the police, jailed without cause, or otherwise
mistreated and manhandled by the authorities. Only white men.

[DrLith]

"Kenneth S." > wrote in message
...
> Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
> outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
> the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
> minorities, etc., etc.?

No possibility whatsoever. Nosiree bob. Racial minorities, homosexuals, etc.
etc. are never harrassed by the police, jailed without cause, or otherwise
mistreated and manhandled by the authorities. Only white men.

[Fido]

Werebat > wrote in :

> Fido wrote:
Werebat wrote:

>
> But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
> something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?
>
> - Ron ^*^



That's me with the sign, (next to the ninja):


http://www.tfcm.org/


It was about 5 degrees that day, 30 MPH winds and snowing hard. But we got
out there, dammit, because we were determined to have our voices heard.


Where were you?


Best - Fido

[Fido]

Werebat > wrote in :

> Fido wrote:
Werebat wrote:

>
> But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
> something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?
>
> - Ron ^*^



That's me with the sign, (next to the ninja):


http://www.tfcm.org/


It was about 5 degrees that day, 30 MPH winds and snowing hard. But we got
out there, dammit, because we were determined to have our voices heard.


Where were you?


Best - Fido

[The Dave©]

> Werebat wrote:
> But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
> something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
> hall"?

Write letters to the paper editor. Write letters to your politicians.
Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years ago,
not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.

[The Dave©]

> Werebat wrote:
> But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
> something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
> hall"?

Write letters to the paper editor. Write letters to your politicians.
Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years ago,
not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.

[Bill in Co.]

DrLith wrote:
> "Kenneth S." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
>> outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
>> the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
>> minorities, etc., etc.?
>
> No possibility whatsoever. Nosiree bob. Racial minorities, homosexuals, etc.
> etc. are never harrassed by the police, jailed without cause, or otherwise
> mistreated and manhandled by the authorities. Only white men.

I guess that means Jesse Jackson has done good!! And to think I thought
there was a stilll a problem there...!

[Bill in Co.]

DrLith wrote:
> "Kenneth S." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
>> outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
>> the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
>> minorities, etc., etc.?
>
> No possibility whatsoever. Nosiree bob. Racial minorities, homosexuals, etc.
> etc. are never harrassed by the police, jailed without cause, or otherwise
> mistreated and manhandled by the authorities. Only white men.

I guess that means Jesse Jackson has done good!! And to think I thought
there was a stilll a problem there...!

[The Dave©]

> Bill in Co. wrote:
> I guess that means Jesse Jackson has done good!! And to think I
> thought there was a stilll a problem there...!

There's always a problem when Jesse's in town.

[The Dave©]

> Bill in Co. wrote:
> I guess that means Jesse Jackson has done good!! And to think I
> thought there was a stilll a problem there...!

There's always a problem when Jesse's in town.

[The Dave©]

> Werebat wrote:
> > > But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
> > > something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
> > > hall"?
> >
> > Write letters to the paper editor.
>
> I have considered editing what I wrote a bit and sending it off to
> the local papers. Any suggestions?

I would keep it less specific. Talk about their general lack of
compassion, etc.

> > Write letters to your politicians.
>
> Indeed. Although "Write your Congressman about it" is a euphemism
> for "**** Off" around these parts.
>
> > Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
> > do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years
> > ago, not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.
>
> Do we elect judges? I'm ignorant about this.

I don't think this happens in all parts of the country. Here, in
NoCal, our judges are "re-elected" every so often. They usually run
unopposed. Most people have no idea who these people are, so they
check the box anyway. Irresponsible.

[The Dave©]

> Werebat wrote:
> > > But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
> > > something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
> > > hall"?
> >
> > Write letters to the paper editor.
>
> I have considered editing what I wrote a bit and sending it off to
> the local papers. Any suggestions?

I would keep it less specific. Talk about their general lack of
compassion, etc.

> > Write letters to your politicians.
>
> Indeed. Although "Write your Congressman about it" is a euphemism
> for "**** Off" around these parts.
>
> > Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
> > do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years
> > ago, not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.
>
> Do we elect judges? I'm ignorant about this.

I don't think this happens in all parts of the country. Here, in
NoCal, our judges are "re-elected" every so often. They usually run
unopposed. Most people have no idea who these people are, so they
check the box anyway. Irresponsible.

[Werebat]

Annie,

For what it's worth, I think your son got it worse than I did --
depending on how you look at it. If it really went down the way you
tell it, it seems to me that your son has been given a wonderful
opportunity to nail the court system with a lawsuit. This is *why*
the judge apologized and the officer was punished -- they are afraid he
will sue them. If they were not afraid he would sue them, they would
not have bothered.

I know he's just a kid, and he probably wants to put the whole thing
behind him -- just like a rape victim of the same age (and the
similarities don't end there). But just like that rape victim he'll
inevitably find himself at a day when he regrets not having done anything
about it when he gets the chance.

Hope he changes his mind.

- Ron ^*^




Annie wrote:
>
> "Werebat" > wrote in message
>
> > I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
> > matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
> > others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?
> >
> > - Ron ^*^
>
> Ron........
>
> They do what they want, when they want, irregardless........my 20 year old
> son was arrested unlawfully when he called to report his car stolen a couple
> months ago, and spent 8 days/7 nights in jail for no cause......illegally
>
> This is a kid with absolutley no record who had never been in
> trouble.......about a month before, he'd missed a court date on a speeding
> ticket, immediately a warrant was issued and that evening an officer came to
> arrest him......he wasn't here.......
>
> Very next day he got ahold of the court clerk and explained what had
> happened (the court date was Tues, he thought it was a Thurs), she gave him
> a new court date and removed the warrant........
>
> The next week he went to court and made the 1st payment on the ticket
>
> This officer returned after that and refused to listen to what I told him,
> that there was no more warrant and he should check with the court (this is a
> very small town, I might add)
>
> 2 or 3 weeks later, he came home and found his car had been
> stolen.......when he called to report it, he was arrested......he tried to
> tell this officer (same one) he had no warrant but he wouldn't
> listen.......and he couldn't prove he'd been to court, as his receipt/papers
> were in the stolen car..........
>
> There was no warrant on the computer at the county jail either, only the
> original paper warrant this officer had........
>
> I had no money, so my son had to sit in county with the gang bangers and
> dopers for 8 days and 7 nights...........
>
> When he got to court, the judge wanted to know why he was there and he told
> her he didn't know..........
> She cleared the ticket, and told him the city owed him an apology........
> Since this officer has apparently done other unscruptulous things (my
> understanding), he was put on 3 months unpaid suspension and a good chance
> of "possible transfer"............(whoopdee doo)
>
> I have lost all respect, much less faith in this system
> Seems they can do anything they want, with few real consequences
> I don't think this man should ever be an officer again, myself
> And I think removing a ticket and an apology is pretty lame, as well
>
> I would very much like to see him talk to someone about possibley suing the
> city/officer, but he can't even talk about this......he had been working
> hard to get that car up and running and a little money saved, in order to go
> back to CO and get himself in school..........now he's just "lost" sorta
> He'll never feel safe around cops, I think, now......imagine.........20
> years old and green as grass and the car you've worked on for hours and
> hours and spent every spare dime you have to get running is
> stolen........and you are arrested.......and then have to stay in there that
> long...........how would you feel or think?
>
> Welcome to the real world of "Police State"
> They can do anything they want to you and get away with it, it's just that
> simple............
> Unless of course, you have political/business/money connections..........
>
> Hope you don't ever go through anything like this again (at least anytime
> soon)
> Time we all learned to goosestep..................!
> I'll bet Saddam is treated better than this, sheesh

[Werebat]

Annie,

For what it's worth, I think your son got it worse than I did --
depending on how you look at it. If it really went down the way you
tell it, it seems to me that your son has been given a wonderful
opportunity to nail the court system with a lawsuit. This is *why*
the judge apologized and the officer was punished -- they are afraid he
will sue them. If they were not afraid he would sue them, they would
not have bothered.

I know he's just a kid, and he probably wants to put the whole thing
behind him -- just like a rape victim of the same age (and the
similarities don't end there). But just like that rape victim he'll
inevitably find himself at a day when he regrets not having done anything
about it when he gets the chance.

Hope he changes his mind.

- Ron ^*^




Annie wrote:
>
> "Werebat" > wrote in message
>
> > I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
> > matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
> > others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?
> >
> > - Ron ^*^
>
> Ron........
>
> They do what they want, when they want, irregardless........my 20 year old
> son was arrested unlawfully when he called to report his car stolen a couple
> months ago, and spent 8 days/7 nights in jail for no cause......illegally
>
> This is a kid with absolutley no record who had never been in
> trouble.......about a month before, he'd missed a court date on a speeding
> ticket, immediately a warrant was issued and that evening an officer came to
> arrest him......he wasn't here.......
>
> Very next day he got ahold of the court clerk and explained what had
> happened (the court date was Tues, he thought it was a Thurs), she gave him
> a new court date and removed the warrant........
>
> The next week he went to court and made the 1st payment on the ticket
>
> This officer returned after that and refused to listen to what I told him,
> that there was no more warrant and he should check with the court (this is a
> very small town, I might add)
>
> 2 or 3 weeks later, he came home and found his car had been
> stolen.......when he called to report it, he was arrested......he tried to
> tell this officer (same one) he had no warrant but he wouldn't
> listen.......and he couldn't prove he'd been to court, as his receipt/papers
> were in the stolen car..........
>
> There was no warrant on the computer at the county jail either, only the
> original paper warrant this officer had........
>
> I had no money, so my son had to sit in county with the gang bangers and
> dopers for 8 days and 7 nights...........
>
> When he got to court, the judge wanted to know why he was there and he told
> her he didn't know..........
> She cleared the ticket, and told him the city owed him an apology........
> Since this officer has apparently done other unscruptulous things (my
> understanding), he was put on 3 months unpaid suspension and a good chance
> of "possible transfer"............(whoopdee doo)
>
> I have lost all respect, much less faith in this system
> Seems they can do anything they want, with few real consequences
> I don't think this man should ever be an officer again, myself
> And I think removing a ticket and an apology is pretty lame, as well
>
> I would very much like to see him talk to someone about possibley suing the
> city/officer, but he can't even talk about this......he had been working
> hard to get that car up and running and a little money saved, in order to go
> back to CO and get himself in school..........now he's just "lost" sorta
> He'll never feel safe around cops, I think, now......imagine.........20
> years old and green as grass and the car you've worked on for hours and
> hours and spent every spare dime you have to get running is
> stolen........and you are arrested.......and then have to stay in there that
> long...........how would you feel or think?
>
> Welcome to the real world of "Police State"
> They can do anything they want to you and get away with it, it's just that
> simple............
> Unless of course, you have political/business/money connections..........
>
> Hope you don't ever go through anything like this again (at least anytime
> soon)
> Time we all learned to goosestep..................!
> I'll bet Saddam is treated better than this, sheesh

[Werebat]

Fido wrote:
>
> "Phil #3" > wrote in
> ink.net:
>
> > The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.
>
> I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
> apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
> damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
> doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
> outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
> any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
> will.

But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Fido wrote:
>
> "Phil #3" > wrote in
> ink.net:
>
> > The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.
>
> I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
> apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
> damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
> doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
> outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
> any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
> will.

But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Kenneth S. wrote:
>
> Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
> outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
> the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
> minorities, etc., etc.?
>
> And here's another question? WHY are the courts (and the police, and
> the whole legal system) in the U.S. so conspicuously free of
> accountability for what they do in this context? The answer, to me, has
> to be that heterosexual males, who are the only ones subjected to this
> kind of treatment, are the one remaining official scapegoat group in the
> U.S.

Especially *short* heterosexual males! :^)

Oh, and fat people.


>
> This kind of thing will keep happening until fathers (and men
> generally) have some way of fighting for their rights.

We do, though. What has to happen is that enough people have to get mad
enough to act (seems like that is not too far from happening), and a
viable option to the current system has to be instituted.

The fact is, no one really wants to hear about abused minority groups to
begin with. They ESPECIALLY don't want to hear about abused majority
groups, and in this you are right -- heterosexual men make pretty good
scapegoats. I've already heard too many stories from family members and
friends about men who have been treated shamefully by the legal system in
family court situations -- one recent one involved a man who made his
payments on time for 18 years, and a clerical error on the court's part
had him hauled into court where the judge derided him and said he made
her "sick" for trying to wriggle out of his responsibilities. When the
error came to light (the court had been accidentally crediting his
payments to another man with a similar name), there was no apology or
anything -- they just sent him on his way.

As you say -- lack of accountability. You can bet your damn ass that I'm
not going to walk into a courtroom and moon the judge, call her names,
tell her she makes me "sick"... I'm no fool and I know I'd be held
accountable. When positions of power are NOT held accountable... they
begin to attract more and more corrupt people to fill them.

Bitching isn't going to accomplish anything, though. What is being done
about this today? What *can* be done?

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Kenneth S. wrote:
>
> Here's a question to think about. Is there any possibility that this
> outrage would have been perpetrated on someone who belonged to one of
> the official grievance groups in the U.S. -- women, homosexuals, racial
> minorities, etc., etc.?
>
> And here's another question? WHY are the courts (and the police, and
> the whole legal system) in the U.S. so conspicuously free of
> accountability for what they do in this context? The answer, to me, has
> to be that heterosexual males, who are the only ones subjected to this
> kind of treatment, are the one remaining official scapegoat group in the
> U.S.

Especially *short* heterosexual males! :^)

Oh, and fat people.


>
> This kind of thing will keep happening until fathers (and men
> generally) have some way of fighting for their rights.

We do, though. What has to happen is that enough people have to get mad
enough to act (seems like that is not too far from happening), and a
viable option to the current system has to be instituted.

The fact is, no one really wants to hear about abused minority groups to
begin with. They ESPECIALLY don't want to hear about abused majority
groups, and in this you are right -- heterosexual men make pretty good
scapegoats. I've already heard too many stories from family members and
friends about men who have been treated shamefully by the legal system in
family court situations -- one recent one involved a man who made his
payments on time for 18 years, and a clerical error on the court's part
had him hauled into court where the judge derided him and said he made
her "sick" for trying to wriggle out of his responsibilities. When the
error came to light (the court had been accidentally crediting his
payments to another man with a similar name), there was no apology or
anything -- they just sent him on his way.

As you say -- lack of accountability. You can bet your damn ass that I'm
not going to walk into a courtroom and moon the judge, call her names,
tell her she makes me "sick"... I'm no fool and I know I'd be held
accountable. When positions of power are NOT held accountable... they
begin to attract more and more corrupt people to fill them.

Bitching isn't going to accomplish anything, though. What is being done
about this today? What *can* be done?

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Fido wrote:
>
> Werebat > wrote in :
>
> > Fido wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
>
> >
> > But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
> > something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?
> >
> > - Ron ^*^
>
> That's me with the sign, (next to the ninja):
>
> http://www.tfcm.org/
>
> It was about 5 degrees that day, 30 MPH winds and snowing hard. But we got
> out there, dammit, because we were determined to have our voices heard.

Well, good. And did you have any concrete effect on anything yet? I
hope so, and I'd love to hear about it!


> Where were you?

Umm... Probably Rhode Island?

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Fido wrote:
>
> Werebat > wrote in :
>
> > Fido wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
>
> >
> > But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
> > something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?
> >
> > - Ron ^*^
>
> That's me with the sign, (next to the ninja):
>
> http://www.tfcm.org/
>
> It was about 5 degrees that day, 30 MPH winds and snowing hard. But we got
> out there, dammit, because we were determined to have our voices heard.

Well, good. And did you have any concrete effect on anything yet? I
hope so, and I'd love to hear about it!


> Where were you?

Umm... Probably Rhode Island?

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

The Dave© wrote:
>
> > Werebat wrote:
> > But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
> > something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
> > hall"?
>
> Write letters to the paper editor.

I have considered editing what I wrote a bit and sending it off to the
local papers. Any suggestions?


> Write letters to your politicians.

Indeed. Although "Write your Congressman about it" is a euphemism for
"**** Off" around these parts.


> Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
> do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years ago,
> not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.

Do we elect judges? I'm ignorant about this.

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

The Dave© wrote:
>
> > Werebat wrote:
> > But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
> > something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
> > hall"?
>
> Write letters to the paper editor.

I have considered editing what I wrote a bit and sending it off to the
local papers. Any suggestions?


> Write letters to your politicians.

Indeed. Although "Write your Congressman about it" is a euphemism for
"**** Off" around these parts.


> Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
> do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years ago,
> not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.

Do we elect judges? I'm ignorant about this.

- Ron ^*^

[Annie]

"Werebat" > wrote in message ...
> Annie,
>
> For what it's worth, I think your son got it worse than I did --
> depending on how you look at it. If it really went down the way you
> tell it, it seems to me that your son has been given a wonderful
> opportunity to nail the court system with a lawsuit. This is *why*
> the judge apologized and the officer was punished -- they are afraid he
> will sue them. If they were not afraid he would sue them, they would
> not have bothered.
>
> I know he's just a kid, and he probably wants to put the whole thing
> behind him -- just like a rape victim of the same age (and the
> similarities don't end there). But just like that rape victim he'll
> inevitably find himself at a day when he regrets not having done anything
> about it when he gets the chance.
>
> Hope he changes his mind.
>
> - Ron

Thank you Ron

I'd give anything to be able to get him to change his mind, this was so so
wrong..........and he's not been the same since......
I really don't know what I can do to get him to even think of this, at the
very least I wish he'd talk to someone at our local paper (we are like a
small suburb of a bigger town here in central WA...........altho that town
isn't anything like a "major" town, but it's the biggest one for quite a
ways here)
Sometimes anymore I think he should be in counseling, as well, or maybe
anti-depressents too, but he's 20 now and I can't make him do anything he
flat out refuses to do...........it's extremely frustrating
I tell him at the very least, maybe he could prevent this from happening to
someone else.......but he clams up and even gets angry with me if I push too
much..........sigh
Seems to me what you said is on the money, he wants to pretend it never
happened and that the whole experience will just "go away".......and I know
that isn't gonna happen either (another sigh)

Thank you for the support though, it means alot
I still sit here speechless at times, when I reflect.........all the ideas I
was raised with, down the toilet........
I've seen other things too, over the years, like what happened to you, and
anymore I feel embarrassed to be an American, it's like such a joke
I wonder just how much better things are than the 50s? I was born in 59 so
didn't see them firsthand......I wonder if things were just "shushed up"
more, if they existed but no one spoke about them..........some things, like
the KKK for instance, I am glad to see have been weakened (but is that only
in my mind? or do they just have more sophisticated means of treating people
like less than? or just have found others they can get away with doing bad
things to?)
I don't know what to think anymore..........what everyone here has said
about "accountability" sure hits the nail on the head, alright.............
I am starting to think that "progress" is not such a good thing, for every
"good" thing progress brings, seems like more things go wrong or
bad............and the more "things" we get, the more "things" we
want........
The whole mess is way too confusing for me.........but the power the
authorities have is frightening, and lack of accountability in both your
case and my son's (and others, as well) totally overwhelms me......scares
the crap out of me, as well..........
"Liberty and justice for all", sheesh........

And I wish Christmas would hurry up and go away, too!
haha!

Thanks for listening and thanks for caring
Annie : )

[Annie]

"Werebat" > wrote in message ...
> Annie,
>
> For what it's worth, I think your son got it worse than I did --
> depending on how you look at it. If it really went down the way you
> tell it, it seems to me that your son has been given a wonderful
> opportunity to nail the court system with a lawsuit. This is *why*
> the judge apologized and the officer was punished -- they are afraid he
> will sue them. If they were not afraid he would sue them, they would
> not have bothered.
>
> I know he's just a kid, and he probably wants to put the whole thing
> behind him -- just like a rape victim of the same age (and the
> similarities don't end there). But just like that rape victim he'll
> inevitably find himself at a day when he regrets not having done anything
> about it when he gets the chance.
>
> Hope he changes his mind.
>
> - Ron

Thank you Ron

I'd give anything to be able to get him to change his mind, this was so so
wrong..........and he's not been the same since......
I really don't know what I can do to get him to even think of this, at the
very least I wish he'd talk to someone at our local paper (we are like a
small suburb of a bigger town here in central WA...........altho that town
isn't anything like a "major" town, but it's the biggest one for quite a
ways here)
Sometimes anymore I think he should be in counseling, as well, or maybe
anti-depressents too, but he's 20 now and I can't make him do anything he
flat out refuses to do...........it's extremely frustrating
I tell him at the very least, maybe he could prevent this from happening to
someone else.......but he clams up and even gets angry with me if I push too
much..........sigh
Seems to me what you said is on the money, he wants to pretend it never
happened and that the whole experience will just "go away".......and I know
that isn't gonna happen either (another sigh)

Thank you for the support though, it means alot
I still sit here speechless at times, when I reflect.........all the ideas I
was raised with, down the toilet........
I've seen other things too, over the years, like what happened to you, and
anymore I feel embarrassed to be an American, it's like such a joke
I wonder just how much better things are than the 50s? I was born in 59 so
didn't see them firsthand......I wonder if things were just "shushed up"
more, if they existed but no one spoke about them..........some things, like
the KKK for instance, I am glad to see have been weakened (but is that only
in my mind? or do they just have more sophisticated means of treating people
like less than? or just have found others they can get away with doing bad
things to?)
I don't know what to think anymore..........what everyone here has said
about "accountability" sure hits the nail on the head, alright.............
I am starting to think that "progress" is not such a good thing, for every
"good" thing progress brings, seems like more things go wrong or
bad............and the more "things" we get, the more "things" we
want........
The whole mess is way too confusing for me.........but the power the
authorities have is frightening, and lack of accountability in both your
case and my son's (and others, as well) totally overwhelms me......scares
the crap out of me, as well..........
"Liberty and justice for all", sheesh........

And I wish Christmas would hurry up and go away, too!
haha!

Thanks for listening and thanks for caring
Annie : )

[jeff s]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:07:07 -0800, Werebat > wrote:

>Fido wrote:
>>
>> "Phil #3" > wrote in
>> ink.net:
>>
>> > The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.
>>
>> I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
>> apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
>> damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
>> doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
>> outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
>> any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
>> will.
>
>But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
>something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?
>
> - Ron ^*^

The elections start in a few months, first the primaries and then the
general elections. As long as we continue to elect career politicians
things will never change, only get worse.

Write to the people running for election and ask them what is their
position on matters that are of concern and effect you. If they don't
agree with what you believe in then let them know that you will NOT
vote for them and that you will vote for his/her opponent. Do the same
for everyone running for election.

Next you need to go online and see how he actually voted during his
last term and if he is saying one thing and doing something else let
him know and tell him that you will not vote for him/her in the
election.

Most of us don't have enough money to buy the politicians views and
votes but then again the people who do do not have enough votes to
elect them with out you. I think the current reelection rate is close
to 95% or more. If we can got that down by a decent amount it might
send a message to the career politicians that hey need to listen to
the voters and not the people and organizations that have the money.

The people and organizations with money can buy the politicians but
they CANNOT buy your vote unless you let them.

Jeff

[jeff s]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:07:07 -0800, Werebat > wrote:

>Fido wrote:
>>
>> "Phil #3" > wrote in
>> ink.net:
>>
>> > The judicial system lacks honesty, ethics and integrity.
>>
>> I think what it lacks is "accountability". A normal person would not only
>> apologize for thier mistake - a normal person would make amends, pay for
>> damages, and learn from their mistakes. The judiciary is incapable of
>> doing that. And we lack the means to hold them accoutable for such
>> outrageous behavior. As such, they have grown to serve only themselves, as
>> any organization that is not subject to accoutability or outside forces
>> will.
>
>But how can we begin to *make* them accountable? Surely there is
>something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city hall"?
>
> - Ron ^*^

The elections start in a few months, first the primaries and then the
general elections. As long as we continue to elect career politicians
things will never change, only get worse.

Write to the people running for election and ask them what is their
position on matters that are of concern and effect you. If they don't
agree with what you believe in then let them know that you will NOT
vote for them and that you will vote for his/her opponent. Do the same
for everyone running for election.

Next you need to go online and see how he actually voted during his
last term and if he is saying one thing and doing something else let
him know and tell him that you will not vote for him/her in the
election.

Most of us don't have enough money to buy the politicians views and
votes but then again the people who do do not have enough votes to
elect them with out you. I think the current reelection rate is close
to 95% or more. If we can got that down by a decent amount it might
send a message to the career politicians that hey need to listen to
the voters and not the people and organizations that have the money.

The people and organizations with money can buy the politicians but
they CANNOT buy your vote unless you let them.

Jeff

[jeff s]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:24:36 -0800, Werebat > wrote:

>The Dave© wrote:
>>
>> > Werebat wrote:
>> > But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
>> > something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
>> > hall"?
>>
>> Write letters to the paper editor.
>
>I have considered editing what I wrote a bit and sending it off to the
>local papers. Any suggestions?
>
>
>> Write letters to your politicians.
>
>Indeed. Although "Write your Congressman about it" is a euphemism for
>"**** Off" around these parts.
>
And you still vote for them?

>
>> Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
>> do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years ago,
>> not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.
>
>Do we elect judges? I'm ignorant about this.
>
> - Ron ^*^

[jeff s]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:24:36 -0800, Werebat > wrote:

>The Dave© wrote:
>>
>> > Werebat wrote:
>> > But how can we begin to make them accountable? Surely there is
>> > something that can be done besides sighing "you can't fight city
>> > hall"?
>>
>> Write letters to the paper editor.
>
>I have considered editing what I wrote a bit and sending it off to the
>local papers. Any suggestions?
>
>
>> Write letters to your politicians.
>
>Indeed. Although "Write your Congressman about it" is a euphemism for
>"**** Off" around these parts.
>
And you still vote for them?

>
>> Vote. Actually pay attention to what to what judges and politicians
>> do, and vote accordingly. Rememeber how they screwed you 2 years ago,
>> not just what they gave you 2 weeks before the election.
>
>Do we elect judges? I'm ignorant about this.
>
> - Ron ^*^

[Cloaked]

So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
Month" status???

This crap has GOT to be against your consitutional rights!

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:18:19 -0600, Fido > wrote:

>Werebat > wrote in :
>
>
>>
>> I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
>> matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
>> others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?
>
>
>Boy that suck.
>
>Makes you kind of sympathetic to John Mohammad, though, doesn't it? Man,
>what a bunch of fukking a-holes.
>
>Best - Fido
>
>
>
>
>>
>> - Ron ^*^
>

[Cloaked]

So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
Month" status???

This crap has GOT to be against your consitutional rights!

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:18:19 -0600, Fido > wrote:

>Werebat > wrote in :
>
>
>>
>> I write this mostly to get it out and sort out my own feelings on the
>> matter, but I am also curious about the perceptions and experiences of
>> others. Does anyone out there have anything to say about this?
>
>
>Boy that suck.
>
>Makes you kind of sympathetic to John Mohammad, though, doesn't it? Man,
>what a bunch of fukking a-holes.
>
>Best - Fido
>
>
>
>
>>
>> - Ron ^*^
>

[Werebat]

Cloaked wrote:
>
> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> Month" status???
>

You know, I've had some time to think about it and...

This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
*trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
myself for trusting that fool woman. You'd think I'd have learned by
now.

Well, hopefully I have.

Now she seems to be having some memory problems about having told me to
pay her directly instead of the court system while she was on Welfare
(thus allowing her to "double dip" while racking up trouble for me when
the courts come knocking on my door demanding their money -- as they have
done now!) Maybe it's the result of those ECT treatments that that poor,
*innocent* little lamb of a victim-girl was forced to endure because
of her *DEPWESSION*... HA!

My Dad caught her lying to him recently about not being on Welfare
anymore, then confronted her that I had told him the magistrate had shown
me documents proving she had been paid Welfare money this month... And
she changed her story midstream ("Oh, yeah, I mean I *am* on Welfare
*now*...") HA!

I can work with this woman, but I've got to double-check every factoid
and get it in writing.

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Cloaked wrote:
>
> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> Month" status???
>

You know, I've had some time to think about it and...

This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
*trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
myself for trusting that fool woman. You'd think I'd have learned by
now.

Well, hopefully I have.

Now she seems to be having some memory problems about having told me to
pay her directly instead of the court system while she was on Welfare
(thus allowing her to "double dip" while racking up trouble for me when
the courts come knocking on my door demanding their money -- as they have
done now!) Maybe it's the result of those ECT treatments that that poor,
*innocent* little lamb of a victim-girl was forced to endure because
of her *DEPWESSION*... HA!

My Dad caught her lying to him recently about not being on Welfare
anymore, then confronted her that I had told him the magistrate had shown
me documents proving she had been paid Welfare money this month... And
she changed her story midstream ("Oh, yeah, I mean I *am* on Welfare
*now*...") HA!

I can work with this woman, but I've got to double-check every factoid
and get it in writing.

- Ron ^*^

[Moon Shyne]

"Werebat" > wrote in message ...
> Cloaked wrote:
> >
> > So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> > Month" status???
> >
>
> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
>
> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> myself for trusting that fool woman.

How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
court?

[Moon Shyne]

"Werebat" > wrote in message ...
> Cloaked wrote:
> >
> > So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> > Month" status???
> >
>
> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
>
> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> myself for trusting that fool woman.

How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
court?

[Bill in Co.]

Moon Shyne wrote:
> "Werebat" > wrote in message ...
>> Cloaked wrote:
>>>
>>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
>>> Month" status???
>>>
>>
>> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
>>
>> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
>> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
>> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
>> myself for trusting that fool woman.
>
> How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
> court?

How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?

[Bill in Co.]

Moon Shyne wrote:
> "Werebat" > wrote in message ...
>> Cloaked wrote:
>>>
>>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
>>> Month" status???
>>>
>>
>> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
>>
>> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
>> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
>> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
>> myself for trusting that fool woman.
>
> How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
> court?

How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?

[Moon Shyne]

"Werebat" > wrote in message ...
> Bill in Co. wrote:
> >
> > Moon Shyne wrote:
> > > "Werebat" > wrote in message
..
> > >> Cloaked wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> > >>> Month" status???
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
> > >>
> > >> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> > >> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> > >> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> > >> myself for trusting that fool woman.
> > >
> > > How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear
in
> > > court?
> >
> > How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?
>
> Life piles up, you get overwhelmed, and you forget. I was moving to a
> new place, caring for an infant for the first time in my life, and
> working full-time plus weekends.
>
> You can believe what you want, but that's what happened. How SHE forgot
> is another matter. She wasn't moving, working, etc. Just caring for the
> baby half the time. Maybe emotional stress from the recent divorce was a
> factor, too.
>
> The point is we both quickly realized the problem and made calls to
> figure out how to rectify the error -- or, rather, SHE made calls while I
> was at work and informed me that everything would be OK if I just payed
> the courts instead of her. In general, when you make a mistake, and
> contact the proper authorities promptly, you expect their instructions
> for rectification to be, well, valid.

So why didn't *you* contact the proper authorities promptly? You *did* made the
mistake of not showing up for court, didn't you?

>
> - Ron ^*^

[Moon Shyne]

"Werebat" > wrote in message ...
> Bill in Co. wrote:
> >
> > Moon Shyne wrote:
> > > "Werebat" > wrote in message
..
> > >> Cloaked wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> > >>> Month" status???
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
> > >>
> > >> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> > >> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> > >> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> > >> myself for trusting that fool woman.
> > >
> > > How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear
in
> > > court?
> >
> > How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?
>
> Life piles up, you get overwhelmed, and you forget. I was moving to a
> new place, caring for an infant for the first time in my life, and
> working full-time plus weekends.
>
> You can believe what you want, but that's what happened. How SHE forgot
> is another matter. She wasn't moving, working, etc. Just caring for the
> baby half the time. Maybe emotional stress from the recent divorce was a
> factor, too.
>
> The point is we both quickly realized the problem and made calls to
> figure out how to rectify the error -- or, rather, SHE made calls while I
> was at work and informed me that everything would be OK if I just payed
> the courts instead of her. In general, when you make a mistake, and
> contact the proper authorities promptly, you expect their instructions
> for rectification to be, well, valid.

So why didn't *you* contact the proper authorities promptly? You *did* made the
mistake of not showing up for court, didn't you?

>
> - Ron ^*^

[Moon Shyne]

"Werebat" > wrote in message ...
> Moon Shyne wrote:
> >
> > "Werebat" > wrote in message ..
> > > Cloaked wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> > > > Month" status???
> > > >
> > >
> > > You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
> > >
> > > This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> > > *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> > > informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> > > myself for trusting that fool woman.
> >
> > How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear
in
> > court?
>
> Did you miss that part of the post? It's right up there, you know.
>
> Forgetting to appear in court was dumb, but I knew that and took steps to
> rectify it once I had realized the error (which my ex also made, I may
> point out, and managed to avoid any warrants for her own arrest).
> Unfortunately those steps involved trusting my ex to get the information
> right.

Why didn't you take the steps to get your *own* information? Why did you sit,
and assume someone else would do your work for you?

>
> The court appearance also made no sense to either of us at the time, as
> we had already appeared in divorce court and as far as we knew the whole
> thing was finalized... and neither of us had filed for any changes.
>
> - Ron ^*^

[Moon Shyne]

"Werebat" > wrote in message ...
> Moon Shyne wrote:
> >
> > "Werebat" > wrote in message ..
> > > Cloaked wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> > > > Month" status???
> > > >
> > >
> > > You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
> > >
> > > This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> > > *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> > > informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> > > myself for trusting that fool woman.
> >
> > How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear
in
> > court?
>
> Did you miss that part of the post? It's right up there, you know.
>
> Forgetting to appear in court was dumb, but I knew that and took steps to
> rectify it once I had realized the error (which my ex also made, I may
> point out, and managed to avoid any warrants for her own arrest).
> Unfortunately those steps involved trusting my ex to get the information
> right.

Why didn't you take the steps to get your *own* information? Why did you sit,
and assume someone else would do your work for you?

>
> The court appearance also made no sense to either of us at the time, as
> we had already appeared in divorce court and as far as we knew the whole
> thing was finalized... and neither of us had filed for any changes.
>
> - Ron ^*^

[The Dave©]

> Werebat wrote:
> Did you miss that part of the post? It's right up there, you know.

Absorbing all sides of a situation is not her forte.

[The Dave©]

> Werebat wrote:
> Did you miss that part of the post? It's right up there, you know.

Absorbing all sides of a situation is not her forte.

[Werebat]

Moon Shyne wrote:
>
> "Werebat" > wrote in message ..
> > Cloaked wrote:
> > >
> > > So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> > > Month" status???
> > >
> >
> > You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
> >
> > This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> > *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> > informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> > myself for trusting that fool woman.
>
> How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
> court?

Did you miss that part of the post? It's right up there, you know.

Forgetting to appear in court was dumb, but I knew that and took steps to
rectify it once I had realized the error (which my ex also made, I may
point out, and managed to avoid any warrants for her own arrest).
Unfortunately those steps involved trusting my ex to get the information
right.

The court appearance also made no sense to either of us at the time, as
we had already appeared in divorce court and as far as we knew the whole
thing was finalized... and neither of us had filed for any changes.

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Moon Shyne wrote:
>
> "Werebat" > wrote in message ..
> > Cloaked wrote:
> > >
> > > So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> > > Month" status???
> > >
> >
> > You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
> >
> > This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> > *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> > informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> > myself for trusting that fool woman.
>
> How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
> court?

Did you miss that part of the post? It's right up there, you know.

Forgetting to appear in court was dumb, but I knew that and took steps to
rectify it once I had realized the error (which my ex also made, I may
point out, and managed to avoid any warrants for her own arrest).
Unfortunately those steps involved trusting my ex to get the information
right.

The court appearance also made no sense to either of us at the time, as
we had already appeared in divorce court and as far as we knew the whole
thing was finalized... and neither of us had filed for any changes.

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Bill in Co. wrote:
>
> Moon Shyne wrote:
> > "Werebat" > wrote in message ..
> >> Cloaked wrote:
> >>>
> >>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> >>> Month" status???
> >>>
> >>
> >> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
> >>
> >> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> >> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> >> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> >> myself for trusting that fool woman.
> >
> > How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
> > court?
>
> How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?

Life piles up, you get overwhelmed, and you forget. I was moving to a
new place, caring for an infant for the first time in my life, and
working full-time plus weekends.

You can believe what you want, but that's what happened. How SHE forgot
is another matter. She wasn't moving, working, etc. Just caring for the
baby half the time. Maybe emotional stress from the recent divorce was a
factor, too.

The point is we both quickly realized the problem and made calls to
figure out how to rectify the error -- or, rather, SHE made calls while I
was at work and informed me that everything would be OK if I just payed
the courts instead of her. In general, when you make a mistake, and
contact the proper authorities promptly, you expect their instructions
for rectification to be, well, valid.

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

Bill in Co. wrote:
>
> Moon Shyne wrote:
> > "Werebat" > wrote in message ..
> >> Cloaked wrote:
> >>>
> >>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
> >>> Month" status???
> >>>
> >>
> >> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
> >>
> >> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
> >> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
> >> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
> >> myself for trusting that fool woman.
> >
> > How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
> > court?
>
> How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?

Life piles up, you get overwhelmed, and you forget. I was moving to a
new place, caring for an infant for the first time in my life, and
working full-time plus weekends.

You can believe what you want, but that's what happened. How SHE forgot
is another matter. She wasn't moving, working, etc. Just caring for the
baby half the time. Maybe emotional stress from the recent divorce was a
factor, too.

The point is we both quickly realized the problem and made calls to
figure out how to rectify the error -- or, rather, SHE made calls while I
was at work and informed me that everything would be OK if I just payed
the courts instead of her. In general, when you make a mistake, and
contact the proper authorities promptly, you expect their instructions
for rectification to be, well, valid.

- Ron ^*^

[jeff s]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:31:15 GMT, "Bill in Co."
> wrote:

>Moon Shyne wrote:
>> "Werebat" > wrote in message ...
>>> Cloaked wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
>>>> Month" status???
>>>>
>>>
>>> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
>>>
>>> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
>>> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
>>> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
>>> myself for trusting that fool woman.
>>
>> How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
>> court?
>
>How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?
>
The same way you can forget your weeding day, your spouse/ex's
birthday, the kids play or whatever.

Jeff

[jeff s]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:31:15 GMT, "Bill in Co."
> wrote:

>Moon Shyne wrote:
>> "Werebat" > wrote in message ...
>>> Cloaked wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
>>>> Month" status???
>>>>
>>>
>>> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
>>>
>>> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
>>> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
>>> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
>>> myself for trusting that fool woman.
>>
>> How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear in
>> court?
>
>How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?
>
The same way you can forget your weeding day, your spouse/ex's
birthday, the kids play or whatever.

Jeff

[Werebat]

The Dave© wrote:
>
> > Werebat wrote:
> > Did you miss that part of the post? It's right up there, you know.
>
> Absorbing all sides of a situation is not her forte.

(Scans past posts by Moon Shyne)

Ah. Noted, and her responses will be dealt with accordingly.

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

The Dave© wrote:
>
> > Werebat wrote:
> > Did you miss that part of the post? It's right up there, you know.
>
> Absorbing all sides of a situation is not her forte.

(Scans past posts by Moon Shyne)

Ah. Noted, and her responses will be dealt with accordingly.

- Ron ^*^

[Bill in Co.]

jeff s wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:31:15 GMT, "Bill in Co."
> > wrote:
>
>> Moon Shyne wrote:
>>> "Werebat" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Cloaked wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
>>>>> Month" status???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
>>>>
>>>> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
>>>> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
>>>> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
>>>> myself for trusting that fool woman.
>>>
>>> How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear
>>> in court?
>>
>> How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?
>>
> The same way you can forget your weeding day, your spouse/ex's
> birthday, the kids play or whatever.
>
> Jeff

Ummm. I don't think they're in the same category. Not even....

[Bill in Co.]

jeff s wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 17:31:15 GMT, "Bill in Co."
> > wrote:
>
>> Moon Shyne wrote:
>>> "Werebat" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Cloaked wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So Fido, does this Qualify Rhode Island for "Deabeat State of the
>>>>> Month" status???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You know, I've had some time to think about it and...
>>>>
>>>> This all started when I forgot to appear in court (dumb), and then
>>>> *trusted* my ex when she told me she had called the court system and been
>>>> informed that everything was OK (dumber). I've got no one to blame but
>>>> myself for trusting that fool woman.
>>>
>>> How about you have no one to blame but yourself for 'forgetting' to appear
>>> in court?
>>
>> How can somebody "forget" to appear in court?
>>
> The same way you can forget your weeding day, your spouse/ex's
> birthday, the kids play or whatever.
>
> Jeff

Ummm. I don't think they're in the same category. Not even....