Neurologist (pediatric)-- please, please help!

[Jill]

Today was Rachel's 4 month appointment. She is 4 months and 4 days old. I am
very distressed and upset- her measurements are good and she is very happy
and alert and interested in environment. She has grown VERY well, and has
never been sick. But the pediatrician grew concerned and sort of addled
while holding her and checking her out and wants her to see a Pediatric
Neurologist this week, to see if further testing or treatment, or physical
therapy or something is warranted.

Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have head
control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her tummy. SHe
will hold her head up and look all around when you sit and hold her with
your tummy to hers. But as for rolling over, she will get her legs and lower
body, and one arm, but not move her head or seem like she really WANTS to
roll over.

It's the head thing that has the dr concerned- she keeps arching her back
often, and most of the time seems to want to hold her head with her neck
very arched, Even in her sleep, on a flat surface, she will roll her head
back as if she is looking up as far as she can and go to sleep that way.
Make sense? When you hold her instead of her head looking straight at you a
lot of the time, she lets it fall way back. She CAN hold her head up. WHat
bothered me is the ped. said she has "never seen a baby do like THIS, this
often and this much, it seems extreme". She asked me "is she like this all
the time?" and said she didn't know what to make of it, didn't even know if
she needs to order tests- she wants a neurologist to determine that.

I am VERY VERY upset. My husband is actually coming home from work for half
a day because I am so worried and distraught- I woke up today with a
headache, one of my sometimes-migraine-prone days out of the blue, and this
has really made my head pound because I am stressed/worried that something
is wrong.

Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head cocked
back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
time.

One thing that is REALLY worrying me- I am SO afraid that something happened
when I fell while while pregnant, that we couldn't know at the time caused
some harm to her neurologically, her spinal cord/nerves or something. All we
knew is that it didn't separate the placenta or cause a problem with her
heartrate- OMG, what if when I fell, it caused something with her brain or
spine development? What if it jarred something and caused this? She has
always been this way as far as wanting her head extremely back, but we
thought she'd grow out of it as she started holding her obble head up and
getting head control.

What could be wrong? I am really upset. If anyone has been through this I
will even give out my phone number to talk because I am really that worried
and upset. What will a pediatric neurologist be able to tell?
Jill

[Jill]

"Jill" > wrote
> It's the head thing that has the dr concerned- she keeps arching her back
> often, and most of the time seems to want to hold her head with her neck
> very arched, Even in her sleep, on a flat surface, she will roll her head
> back as if she is looking up as far as she can and go to sleep that way.
> Make sense? When you hold her instead of her head looking straight at you
a
> lot of the time, she lets it fall way back. She CAN hold her head up. WHat
> bothered me is the ped. said she has "never seen a baby do like THIS,

I just wanted to add that since this is my first baby, I didn't realize that
there was anything abnormal in her head control. I feel so bad and so
worried!!!

Jill

[Ericka Kammerer]

Jill wrote:


> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.
>

Oh, good heavens, RELAX!!! All of those things are totally
normal, with the possible exception of cranking her head back
all the time--and my kids did even that to some extent. Mine
are all normal and happy and healthy. I don't think Genevieve
rolled over much at all until 6-7 months and she hated tummy
time and she wasn't sitting at 4 months either. Most babies
arch their backs sometimes.
It's possible that somthing is going on with the
head tipping back so much, but it could also be perfectly
normal. Colin almost always slept on his back with his
head cocked back. He just preferred it that way. I
think your doctor is just being very cautious with the
neurologist referral. Bet you dollars to doughnuts that
they don't find a thing wrong with her.
Take a deep breath and relax.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Leigh Menconi]

"Jill" > wrote in message
...
> Today was Rachel's 4 month appointment. She is 4 months and 4 days old. I
> am
> very distressed and upset- her measurements are good and she is very happy
> and alert and interested in environment. She has grown VERY well, and has
> never been sick. But the pediatrician grew concerned and sort of addled
> while holding her and checking her out and wants her to see a Pediatric
> Neurologist this week, to see if further testing or treatment, or physical
> therapy or something is warranted.
>
> Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have head
> control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her tummy.
> SHe
> will hold her head up and look all around when you sit and hold her with
> your tummy to hers. But as for rolling over, she will get her legs and
> lower
> body, and one arm, but not move her head or seem like she really WANTS to
> roll over.
>
> It's the head thing that has the dr concerned- she keeps arching her back
> often, and most of the time seems to want to hold her head with her neck
> very arched, Even in her sleep, on a flat surface, she will roll her head
> back as if she is looking up as far as she can and go to sleep that way.
> Make sense? When you hold her instead of her head looking straight at you
> a
> lot of the time, she lets it fall way back. She CAN hold her head up. WHat
> bothered me is the ped. said she has "never seen a baby do like THIS, this
> often and this much, it seems extreme". She asked me "is she like this all
> the time?" and said she didn't know what to make of it, didn't even know
> if
> she needs to order tests- she wants a neurologist to determine that.
>
> I am VERY VERY upset. My husband is actually coming home from work for
> half
> a day because I am so worried and distraught- I woke up today with a
> headache, one of my sometimes-migraine-prone days out of the blue, and
> this
> has really made my head pound because I am stressed/worried that something
> is wrong.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head
> cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.
>
> One thing that is REALLY worrying me- I am SO afraid that something
> happened
> when I fell while while pregnant, that we couldn't know at the time caused
> some harm to her neurologically, her spinal cord/nerves or something. All
> we
> knew is that it didn't separate the placenta or cause a problem with her
> heartrate- OMG, what if when I fell, it caused something with her brain or
> spine development? What if it jarred something and caused this? She has
> always been this way as far as wanting her head extremely back, but we
> thought she'd grow out of it as she started holding her obble head up and
> getting head control.
>
> What could be wrong? I am really upset. If anyone has been through this I
> will even give out my phone number to talk because I am really that
> worried
> and upset. What will a pediatric neurologist be able to tell?
> Jill
>
>

A friend of mine's son had something that caused his head to tilt to one
side and they saw a pediatric physical therapist for a few sessions and it
resolved fairly quickly. It may be something as simple as that. FWIW, he's
extremely bright and the condition had no implication or expectation of
brain damage.

Babies in utero are pretty well cushioned, I doubt that your fall would have
injured the baby to such an extent that it could cause spinal/nerve damage.
I hope you're able to get in to see the specialist as soon as possible to
allay your worst fears and come up with a plan of action.

Leigh

[Sophie]

> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head
cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.

All those things sound normal at 4 months to me.

> One thing that is REALLY worrying me- I am SO afraid that something
happened
> when I fell while while pregnant, that we couldn't know at the time caused
> some harm to her neurologically, her spinal cord/nerves or something.

No way! Babies are so protected in there. If that was possible wouldn't
women who have been in car accidents while pregnant, like me, have babies
with problems??

> What could be wrong? I am really upset. If anyone has been through this I
> will even give out my phone number to talk because I am really that
worried
> and upset. What will a pediatric neurologist be able to tell?
> Jill

How old is your pediatrician to have never ever seen this before?
Does he/she have a background in anything else? When our regular ped left
Cuba and one with a background in physical therapy came in, suddenly tons of
babies needed it <eyeroll>.

[Jill]

"Leigh Menconi" > wrote
> I hope you're able to get in to see the specialist as soon as possible to
> allay your worst fears and come up with a plan of action.
>
> Leigh
>
We are seeing one Thursday. I am so worried still :(

[Welches]

Jill > wrote in message
...
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head
cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.
>
#1 didn't roll until 9/10 months (after she crawled) Didn't show signs of
wanting to either. Once she realised that there was a purpose to rolling (so
she could get to her front to crawl) then she did it.
Wouldn't expect her to be sitting up. Average is 6 months. Known perfectly
normal kids not sitting up at 8 months.
#2 bends her neck back a lot. She likes to roll onto her side and do this
when asleep. We call it the menengitis position! Even when she was tiny she
was always screwing her neck round. Personally I think she was nosy and
wanted to see what was behind her. If she arches her back when being held
it's usually after a large brest feed and seems to have tummy ache.
Certainly when she does this (and it tends to happen in phrases) it seems to
go with being windy. I took her to the dr. a couple of weeks ago with that
combined with not sleeping asnd they reckoned it was colic/tummy ache.
If she doesn't do it often (like several times every day) I doubt if it's
anything bad.
Lots of babies have poor head control at 4 months.

> One thing that is REALLY worrying me- I am SO afraid that something
happened
> when I fell while while pregnant, that we couldn't know at the time caused
> some harm to her neurologically, her spinal cord/nerves or something. All
we
> knew is that it didn't separate the placenta or cause a problem with her
> heartrate- OMG, what if when I fell, it caused something with her brain or
> spine development? What if it jarred something and caused this? She has
> always been this way as far as wanting her head extremely back, but we
> thought she'd grow out of it as she started holding her obble head up and
> getting head control.
>
Sounds exceedingly unlikely that anything nerves would have been damaged by
a fall that could cause it. She'll have been cushioned by fluid inside you
and her nerves/spine would have been well protected.

> What could be wrong? I am really upset. If anyone has been through this I
> will even give out my phone number to talk because I am really that
worried
> and upset. What will a pediatric neurologist be able to tell?
It's worrying for now, but I suspect that they're covering their backs, or
something. Doesn't sound like any cause for concern to me, but I'd see the
specialist anyway. Just to put your mind at rest.
I'll be praying for you.
Debbie

[Clisby]

Jill wrote:
> Today was Rachel's 4 month appointment. She is 4 months and 4 days old. I am
> very distressed and upset- her measurements are good and she is very happy
> and alert and interested in environment. She has grown VERY well, and has
> never been sick. But the pediatrician grew concerned and sort of addled
> while holding her and checking her out and wants her to see a Pediatric
> Neurologist this week, to see if further testing or treatment, or physical
> therapy or something is warranted.
>
> Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have head
> control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her tummy. SHe
> will hold her head up and look all around when you sit and hold her with
> your tummy to hers. But as for rolling over, she will get her legs and lower
> body, and one arm, but not move her head or seem like she really WANTS to
> roll over.
>
> It's the head thing that has the dr concerned- she keeps arching her back
> often, and most of the time seems to want to hold her head with her neck
> very arched, Even in her sleep, on a flat surface, she will roll her head
> back as if she is looking up as far as she can and go to sleep that way.
> Make sense? When you hold her instead of her head looking straight at you a
> lot of the time, she lets it fall way back. She CAN hold her head up. WHat
> bothered me is the ped. said she has "never seen a baby do like THIS, this
> often and this much, it seems extreme". She asked me "is she like this all
> the time?" and said she didn't know what to make of it, didn't even know if
> she needs to order tests- she wants a neurologist to determine that.
>
> I am VERY VERY upset. My husband is actually coming home from work for half
> a day because I am so worried and distraught- I woke up today with a
> headache, one of my sometimes-migraine-prone days out of the blue, and this
> has really made my head pound because I am stressed/worried that something
> is wrong.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.
>
> One thing that is REALLY worrying me- I am SO afraid that something happened
> when I fell while while pregnant, that we couldn't know at the time caused
> some harm to her neurologically, her spinal cord/nerves or something. All we
> knew is that it didn't separate the placenta or cause a problem with her
> heartrate- OMG, what if when I fell, it caused something with her brain or
> spine development? What if it jarred something and caused this? She has
> always been this way as far as wanting her head extremely back, but we
> thought she'd grow out of it as she started holding her obble head up and
> getting head control.
>
> What could be wrong? I am really upset. If anyone has been through this I
> will even give out my phone number to talk because I am really that worried
> and upset. What will a pediatric neurologist be able to tell?
> Jill
>
>
>

As far as arching her back and keeping her head back, I can't help -
sorry. But there's nothing unusual about a 4-month-old who doesn't roll
over. My first child rolled over, both ways, just after 3 months. My
2nd did it at 6 months (I think he could flip one way at 5 months, and
completely over at 6 months.) Neither of them tried to sit up alone at
4 months - and my first was advanced, physically; she walked at 8.5
months. They're both fine.

I know how alarming things like this can be - when my first was about 5
weeks old, the pediatrician diagnosed a heart murmur, and said, "It's
probably nothing serious, but I think you could see a cardiologist." Of
course, during the next 3 weeks I was trying to mentally prepare myself
for infant heart surgery. As it turned out, the pediatrician was
right, it wasn't serious, and since has disappeared.

Sure, have a pediatric neurologist check her out. Maybe the
neurologist can set your mind at ease about your fall - I find it hard
to believe that would hurt a baby. A uterus is pretty tough.

Clisby

[Zannah]

In article >,
"Jill" > wrote:

> Today was Rachel's 4 month appointment. She is 4 months and 4 days old. I am
> very distressed and upset- her measurements are good and she is very happy
> and alert and interested in environment. She has grown VERY well, and has
> never been sick. But the pediatrician grew concerned and sort of addled
> while holding her and checking her out and wants her to see a Pediatric
> Neurologist this week, to see if further testing or treatment, or physical
> therapy or something is warranted.
>
> Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have head
> control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her tummy. SHe
> will hold her head up and look all around when you sit and hold her with
> your tummy to hers. But as for rolling over, she will get her legs and lower
> body, and one arm, but not move her head or seem like she really WANTS to
> roll over.
>
> It's the head thing that has the dr concerned- she keeps arching her back
> often, and most of the time seems to want to hold her head with her neck
> very arched, Even in her sleep, on a flat surface, she will roll her head
> back as if she is looking up as far as she can and go to sleep that way.
> Make sense? When you hold her instead of her head looking straight at you a
> lot of the time, she lets it fall way back. She CAN hold her head up. WHat
> bothered me is the ped. said she has "never seen a baby do like THIS, this
> often and this much, it seems extreme". She asked me "is she like this all
> the time?" and said she didn't know what to make of it, didn't even know if
> she needs to order tests- she wants a neurologist to determine that.
>
> I am VERY VERY upset. My husband is actually coming home from work for half
> a day because I am so worried and distraught- I woke up today with a
> headache, one of my sometimes-migraine-prone days out of the blue, and this
> has really made my head pound because I am stressed/worried that something
> is wrong.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.

I wouldn't worry about the rolling. DD didn't roll until she was 8
months old. Then she rolled once, and never did it again.

And it just sounds like your pediatrician is just being *extremely*
thorough. It sounds like your pediatrician doesn't see it as a symptom
of anything specific, she just wants it checked out.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

Zannah.

[Donna Metler]

I saw a pediatric/adolescent neuro for many years because of mild CP, and
it's surprising what they can tell just by observing and (with older
children), talking to them. It's also surprising what early intervention can
do-and the earlier the better (most people can't tell I'm disabled at all,
unless I'm super tired).

I know it's scary, but believe me, it's better to know, and a neuro will be
able to tell what is just unusual baby behavior and what is a real problem.
And what to do if it is (a majority of problems are treatable)

Also, on guilt-my mother has felt guilty because she drank ONCE during her
pregnancy with me, without knowing that she was even pregnant, and that this
somehow caused the brain damage. My MIL, who had a severely disabled child,
felt guilty her entire life because this had been a surprise baby and she
really hadn't wanted him-and that she had been too old when she had him
(Ha-compared to me, she was a spring chicken on her 4th pregnancy-I believe
she had her last child at age 29). I've been involved on CP groups and
independent living advocacy for years, and every mother has some reason why
they blame themselves. So I know that what I'm going to say is probably
futile-but I'm going to say it anyway. Don't. Even if you knew, 100%, that X
caused Y, and causation is rarely that obvious, you can't do anything about
it. All you can do is take care of and love that baby as best you can-and
pray, and hope.

[Jill]

"Sophie" > wrote
> How old is your pediatrician to have never ever seen this before?
> Does he/she have a background in anything else? When our regular ped left
> Cuba and one with a background in physical therapy came in, suddenly tons
of
> babies needed it <eyeroll>.
>

She is of a decent age of experience- I'd guess she is maybe in her
40's-50's. I am no good at guessing ages, and also, she looks like one of
those people who looks younger than they are.

Sigh............I feel better being *with* Rachel at home, because around
me, she is more comfortable and I don't see anything that seems to be a big
flag of something wrong. I tried at home pulling her up by her arms like the
dr did, and she DOES hold her head up for me today, except when she is
tired.

[Tori M.]

"Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
...
> Jill wrote:
>
>
> > Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head
cocked
> > back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on
her
> > own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only
sometimes-
> > she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> > with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or
someone
> > else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> > time.
> >
>
> Oh, good heavens, RELAX!!!

In her defence it is hard to stay relaxed when the pediatritian just said
panic..

Tori

--
Bonnie 3/20/02
Xavier due 10/17/04

[Todd Gastaldo]

Good advice, I thought.

"Donna Metler" > wrote in message
. ..
>I saw a pediatric/adolescent neuro for many years because of mild CP, and
> it's surprising what they can tell just by observing and (with older
> children), talking to them. It's also surprising what early intervention
> can
> do-and the earlier the better (most people can't tell I'm disabled at all,
> unless I'm super tired).
>
> I know it's scary, but believe me, it's better to know, and a neuro will
> be
> able to tell what is just unusual baby behavior and what is a real
> problem.
> And what to do if it is (a majority of problems are treatable)
>
> Also, on guilt-my mother has felt guilty because she drank ONCE during her
> pregnancy with me, without knowing that she was even pregnant, and that
> this
> somehow caused the brain damage. My MIL, who had a severely disabled
> child,
> felt guilty her entire life because this had been a surprise baby and she
> really hadn't wanted him-and that she had been too old when she had him
> (Ha-compared to me, she was a spring chicken on her 4th pregnancy-I
> believe
> she had her last child at age 29). I've been involved on CP groups and
> independent living advocacy for years, and every mother has some reason
> why
> they blame themselves. So I know that what I'm going to say is probably
> futile-but I'm going to say it anyway. Don't. Even if you knew, 100%, that
> X
> caused Y, and causation is rarely that obvious, you can't do anything
> about
> it. All you can do is take care of and love that baby as best you can-and
> pray, and hope.
>
>
>

[Jill]

"Tori M." > wrote
> > Oh, good heavens, RELAX!!!
>
> In her defence it is hard to stay relaxed when the pediatritian just said
> panic..
>
> Tori
>

For some reason, the posts of that poster (Ericka Kammerer- probably
misspelled) do not show up for my on my newsreader. I don't understand this
because I don't have anyone killfiled or filtered etc. So, I can't read the
post but would love to. :)

Anyway, what got me was not that the ped. mentioned a possible problem, it
was that she said "I have never seen anything like this before! I mean, I
have had babies that arch a little or this or that but I have never had one
do *like this*". To me, that sounds bad- a peditrician who sees a ton of
babies, thinks mine has a problem, and says she has never seen one that bad
before??? That is verbatim what she said, not what I drew from what she
said.

etc.

But I am feeling better, since she said that I am watching Rachel like a
hawk- and don't see any bad "symptoms"........yeah, she does arch sometimes,
and her head does tend to droop back but it seems to me like it is going to
be outgrown......? But have never had a baby before, so have never
experienced it.

[karlisa]

Jill,

I realize that you are very nervous about your baby and I completely
sympathize. Hopefully, the neurologist will put your mind at ease and tell
you that your DD has nothing wrong with her!

My son Mick was born with hypotonia. He is now 26 months and has global
developmental delays. I first thought something was wrong with him very
early on, but being a first-time mom, I was unsure. When the first
pediatrician would pull Mick from prone to sitting, he had significant head
lag at a very early age. I could tell that the pediatrician thought that
there might be something going on when he repeated the test twice with the
same results. This doctor (who I later fired), unlike your pediatrician,
dismissed his observations and pronounced Mick a normal baby, etc. It
wasn't until I spoke with another parent in a baby music class that I was
attending that I first heard the word "hypotonia." His child had some of
the same problems as Mick, and this parent gave me the name of a
developmental pediatrician when Mick was 6 months old. It was through this
new doctor that my son has been receiving the therapies that he needs. I
think it's great that you have a doctor who is this thorough!

I know you can't help but worry, but try not to blame yourself for anything
that might be wrong with your daughter. I'm sure there is nothing you did
(or did not do) that might have caused her situation. I even felt guilty
about Mick, and my son is adopted! I thought that had I been a better mom,
I would have known something was wrong with him and would have gotten
intervention at birth. It's best to let the guilt go, as it serves no good
to anyone. Enjoy this sweet baby and try not to worry. Please let us know
how the doctor visit goes.

lisa
micksmom
2 years old!
Baby 2: edd 2-7-05

[Ericka Kammerer]

Tori M. wrote:

> "Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
> ...

>>Oh, good heavens, RELAX!!!
>
>
> In her defence it is hard to stay relaxed when the pediatritian just said
> panic..

I know...I was more exasperated at the doctor.
It should have been made abundantly clear that this was
just being extra cautious. Unless Jill is leaving something
out of her description, this really doesn't sound likely
to be anything serious at all. I'm sure there's some weird
dread disease out there that could possibly show up this
way, so it probably makes sense to check things out, but
the odds that any problem will be found are very small.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[Angela Schepers]

I wouldn't worry about rolling over. DS is a little over 4mos and can
flip up on his side from his back but doesn't roll completely over and
doesn't seem at all interested in rolling over from tummy to back yet.
My doc wasn't concerned at all about it and it doesn't seem abnormal to
me for a 4 month old to not roll over yet. About the craning neck
thing, I don't know what to tell you.

Jill wrote:
> Today was Rachel's 4 month appointment. She is 4 months and 4 days old. I am
> very distressed and upset- her measurements are good and she is very happy
> and alert and interested in environment. She has grown VERY well, and has
> never been sick. But the pediatrician grew concerned and sort of addled
> while holding her and checking her out and wants her to see a Pediatric
> Neurologist this week, to see if further testing or treatment, or physical
> therapy or something is warranted.
>
> Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have head
> control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her tummy. SHe
> will hold her head up and look all around when you sit and hold her with
> your tummy to hers. But as for rolling over, she will get her legs and lower
> body, and one arm, but not move her head or seem like she really WANTS to
> roll over.
>
> It's the head thing that has the dr concerned- she keeps arching her back
> often, and most of the time seems to want to hold her head with her neck
> very arched, Even in her sleep, on a flat surface, she will roll her head
> back as if she is looking up as far as she can and go to sleep that way.
> Make sense? When you hold her instead of her head looking straight at you a
> lot of the time, she lets it fall way back. She CAN hold her head up. WHat
> bothered me is the ped. said she has "never seen a baby do like THIS, this
> often and this much, it seems extreme". She asked me "is she like this all
> the time?" and said she didn't know what to make of it, didn't even know if
> she needs to order tests- she wants a neurologist to determine that.
>
> I am VERY VERY upset. My husband is actually coming home from work for half
> a day because I am so worried and distraught- I woke up today with a
> headache, one of my sometimes-migraine-prone days out of the blue, and this
> has really made my head pound because I am stressed/worried that something
> is wrong.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.
>
> One thing that is REALLY worrying me- I am SO afraid that something happened
> when I fell while while pregnant, that we couldn't know at the time caused
> some harm to her neurologically, her spinal cord/nerves or something. All we
> knew is that it didn't separate the placenta or cause a problem with her
> heartrate- OMG, what if when I fell, it caused something with her brain or
> spine development? What if it jarred something and caused this? She has
> always been this way as far as wanting her head extremely back, but we
> thought she'd grow out of it as she started holding her obble head up and
> getting head control.
>
> What could be wrong? I am really upset. If anyone has been through this I
> will even give out my phone number to talk because I am really that worried
> and upset. What will a pediatric neurologist be able to tell?
> Jill
>
>
>

[Ericka Kammerer]

Jill wrote:

> Anyway, what got me was not that the ped. mentioned a possible problem, it
> was that she said "I have never seen anything like this before! I mean, I
> have had babies that arch a little or this or that but I have never had one
> do *like this*". To me, that sounds bad- a peditrician who sees a ton of
> babies, thinks mine has a problem, and says she has never seen one that bad
> before??? That is verbatim what she said, not what I drew from what she
> said.

Not that you can probably see this, but I really think
that it's odd she hasn't seen anything like this before. I
think some doctors are just very, very conservative and refer
to a specialist anytime anything looks remotely different.
Our former ped referred Genevieve to a specialist because
she had a slight head tilt. Sure, it could have been
torticollis (well, it probably was, but it certainly wasn't
serious) and could have needed therapy, but it was very
mild and got better week by week and she could tilt her
head the other way, and her brother was the same and grew
out of it just fine, so I refused to take her in. Sure
enough, she grew out of it shortly thereafter. I think
peds just don't want to leave any stone unturned, likely
because there are substantial consequences if anything
*does* turn up later that *might* be associated with
any little sign, even if the odds of that happening are
very remote. Referring you to a specialist costs very
little to the ped and covers his/her butt in case something
happens down the line.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[toypup]

"Tori M." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jill wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head
> cocked
>> > back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on
> her
>> > own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only
> sometimes-
>> > she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not
>> > comfortable
>> > with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or
> someone
>> > else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
>> > time.
>> >
>>
>> Oh, good heavens, RELAX!!!
>
> In her defence it is hard to stay relaxed when the pediatritian just said
> panic..

I don't think I've ever seen a ped say panic, even in an emergency. The ped
just wants a specialist's opinion.

[toypup]

"Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
...
> Tori M. wrote:
>
>> "Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>>Oh, good heavens, RELAX!!!
>>
>>
>> In her defence it is hard to stay relaxed when the pediatritian just said
>> panic..
>
> I know...I was more exasperated at the doctor.
> It should have been made abundantly clear that this was
> just being extra cautious.

In the ped's defense, Jill does tend to overreact.

[toypup]

"Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
...
> Tori M. wrote:
>
>> "Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>>Oh, good heavens, RELAX!!!
>>
>>
>> In her defence it is hard to stay relaxed when the pediatritian just said
>> panic..
>
> I know...I was more exasperated at the doctor.
> It should have been made abundantly clear that this was
> just being extra cautious.

In the ped's defense, Jill does tend to overreact.

[Tori M.]

"toypup" > wrote in message
news:Vyn1d.430477$%_6.15830@attbi_s01...
>
> "Tori M." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Ericka Kammerer" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Jill wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> > Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head
> > cocked
> >> > back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up
on
> > her
> >> > own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only
> > sometimes-
> >> > she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not
> >> > comfortable
> >> > with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or
> > someone
> >> > else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE
tummy
> >> > time.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Oh, good heavens, RELAX!!!
> >
> > In her defence it is hard to stay relaxed when the pediatritian just
said
> > panic..
>
> I don't think I've ever seen a ped say panic, even in an emergency. The
ped
> just wants a specialist's opinion.

Maybe it is just my tendency to worry about stuff like this in general but
anytime I am refered to see anyone that is not a general dr I tend to worry
more. I am verry layed back about some things but if there is something
wrong with Bonnie I pace and research and then I worry because everyone
knows the research is all bad;)
The ped said I have never seen this before.. that to me means unusual,
rare.. unusual and rare= panic;)

Tori

--
Bonnie 3/20/02
Xavier due 10/17/04

[toypup]

"Jill" > wrote in message
m...
> Anyway, what got me was not that the ped. mentioned a possible problem, it
> was that she said "I have never seen anything like this before! I mean, I
> have had babies that arch a little or this or that but I have never had
> one
> do *like this*". To me, that sounds bad- a peditrician who sees a ton of
> babies, thinks mine has a problem, and says she has never seen one that
> bad
> before??? That is verbatim what she said, not what I drew from what she
> said.

I've talked to MD's I know on a personal level about this in the past. What
they tell me is that there are lots of things they haven't seen before.
Just because they haven't seen it doesn't mean it's a bad thing. If your
ped hasn't seen it, she just wants your DD to be seen by someone who maybe
would be more likely familiar with that sort of thing. IMO, it's a good
thing. I mean, you don't want a ped who pretends to know everything, won't
admit to not knowing something.

DD looked like she was stiff and shaking hard like she was having a seizure
the other day, except she was BF'ing through the whole thing. Her ped
didn't know what it could be. I don't think he's ever heard of the
combination of symptoms I described for him ever in his life. That didn't
make him a bad ped. That didn't mean it was serious. He's seen lots of
babies before. It's just something that's never come up, at least not the
way it did with DD. He went to consult with the pediatric neurologist.
Turns out, the neurologist did know what it was just from the description.
He didn't have to run any tests. It's not serious.

Your DD's ped had never seen anthing like it before, didn't know what to
make of it. That doesn't mean anything. She just wants someone with more
experience in that area to see what they can make of it.

And stop blaming the 6 yo for everything already. Your fall did not cause
any problems, not then, not now, not ever.

[toypup]

"Tori M." > wrote in message
...
> The ped said I have never seen this before.. that to me means unusual,
> rare.. unusual and rare= panic;)

Maybe I'm too unusual and rare. ;) I've been referred to specialists for
lots of things that the generalist isn't sure of and nothing ever turns up
(knock on wood). The only time I would panic is if the doc referred me
straight to the hospital. They seem to do it in a way that makes it appear
routine, like they just have to do some more tests. Every time that happens
to someone in my family, the person is sick enough to be admitted, but it
wouldn't seem that serious from the MD's tone. It's more than one doc that
does it that way. I guess they just don't want us to panic.

[Circe]

Tori M. wrote:
> Maybe it is just my tendency to worry about stuff like this in
> general but anytime I am refered to see anyone that is not a
> general dr I tend to worry more. I am verry layed back about some
> things but if there is something wrong with Bonnie I pace and
> research and then I worry because everyone knows the research is
> all bad;)
> The ped said I have never seen this before.. that to me means
> unusual, rare.. unusual and rare= panic;)
>
Well, ya know, I've had the words "muscular dystrophy" uttered in the same
breath with my child's name before, so I think I can safely say I know what
panic is <g>! (No, she doesn't have muscular dystrophy, and I'm very
grateful for that, but she would still have been our darling daughter and
we'd have copied if she had.)

Here's the thing--doctors *do* like to cover their butts. When they see
something that looks unusual to them, they want to refer to a specialist.
That's a good thing, generally, not a bad one, because when problems are
caught early, they can typically be corrected much more easily, though of
course it does have its down sides. (I was referred for an ultrasound and
then an MRI followed by a neuro visit for my third, whose head circumference
was astonishingly large. I knew there was nothing wrong and fought and
fretted over it all, but in the end, I turned out to be right but the
doctors got to be reassured by the results. Everyone wound up okay.)

The thing is, with my second child, if my pediatrician had been concerned a
bit sooner and been more aggressive, we'd probably have had her in
intervention for her gross motor delay sooner. I can't really blame that all
on my pediatrician, though, because I didn't want to admit to myself that
there was something wrong. So, I guess my advice to Jill is to view this as
an opportunity rather than as something to panic over. In all likelihood,
nothing's wrong at all and Rachel just like to have her head in a funny
position (hey, some kids are just funny!), but if there *is* something
amiss, you would feel much worse if you found out a year from now and could
have been doing something about it all this time. Trust me, I've been there!
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 5), and the Rising Son (Julian, 7)

This week's suggested Bush/Cheney campaign bumper sticker:
"Don't think. Vote Bush!"

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

[Circe]

karlisa wrote:
> My son Mick was born with hypotonia. He is now 26 months and has
> global developmental delays.

Hey, Karlisa, my now 5yo daughter was diagnosed with hypotonia at 15 months.
She's doing quite well now, though she has some receptive language problems
(related, I'm positive, the hypotonia) and is still a bit behind in both
fine and gross motor development. If you ever want to chat, feel free to
drop me a line by e-mail.
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 5), and the Rising Son (Julian, 7)

This week's suggested Bush/Cheney campaign bumper sticker:
"Don't think. Vote Bush!"

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

[Nancy P.]

"Jill" > wrote in message
...
> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head
> cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.
>
>

Jill, if it helps, Kerry is 2 or 3 weeks older than Rachel and is nowhere
near rolling over.

Nancy

[Jill]

> > I don't think I've ever seen a ped say panic, even in an emergency. The
> ped
> > just wants a specialist's opinion.
>

I got lost in all the replies in one messgae, and can't see some posts so I
*think* this is Ericka above. And she is right, the pediatrician was acting
very concerned, but did not tell me to hit the panic button, just to get it
checked out to see if testing needs to be done. I'm just a mom who hasn't
been there/done that before, and AM worried, I can't help but be.

I am sure if I called the pediatrician up right now and asked her about her
telling me she's never seen one this bad etc, that she will say she didn't
mean to worry me, etc etc. She can probably add Rachel to her roster- NOW
she's seen one. Lol. I am feeling a bit better. But still a bit wondering
about how the neuro appt will go.

[Jill]

"Circe" > wrote If you ever want to chat, feel free to
> drop me a line by e-mail.
> --
> Be well, Barbara

I as well would like tp put up an invitation that if anyone wants to chat,
I'll provide my email address/phone number.

Jill

[Cam & Shane]

Hi Jill

I get together once a week with my antenatal class for morning tea. We have
11 babies between us from 2.5 months to 5 months. No babies are rolling
over yet. Most of them hate tummy time. We have also noticed that heaps of
them when lying on their backs are pushing on their feet and arching their
back up so that it's only the feet and head on the floor. Some of the older
ones are still struggling for head control. So what you are explaining
isn't out of the ordinary but it's best to get things checked out anyway -
peace of mind for you and your family.

I hope it all goes well for you and Rachel on Thursday.

Kindest regards
Camille



---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Angela Schepers]

I second this advice. It's definately a more reassuring and healthy way
to look at things rather than worrying yourself to death, which I have a
tendency to do as well.

>
> Here's the thing--doctors *do* like to cover their butts. When they see
> something that looks unusual to them, they want to refer to a specialist.
> That's a good thing, generally, not a bad one, because when problems are
> caught early, they can typically be corrected much more easily, though of
> course it does have its down sides. (I was referred for an ultrasound and
> then an MRI followed by a neuro visit for my third, whose head circumference
> was astonishingly large. I knew there was nothing wrong and fought and
> fretted over it all, but in the end, I turned out to be right but the
> doctors got to be reassured by the results. Everyone wound up okay.)
>
> The thing is, with my second child, if my pediatrician had been concerned a
> bit sooner and been more aggressive, we'd probably have had her in
> intervention for her gross motor delay sooner. I can't really blame that all
> on my pediatrician, though, because I didn't want to admit to myself that
> there was something wrong. So, I guess my advice to Jill is to view this as
> an opportunity rather than as something to panic over. In all likelihood,
> nothing's wrong at all and Rachel just like to have her head in a funny
> position (hey, some kids are just funny!), but if there *is* something
> amiss, you would feel much worse if you found out a year from now and could
> have been doing something about it all this time. Trust me, I've been there!
> --
> Be well, Barbara
> Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 5), and the Rising Son (Julian, 7)

>
>

[Cathy]

Jill wrote:
> Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have
> head control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her
> tummy.

Cripes, you poor thing. The only thing I can say here is that when I last
saw my niece, who was 7 months old, she wasn't rolling. So 4 months doesn't
sound bad. I can't comment about the neck thing, but I hope you can see
someone very soon to put your fears at ease.

Cathy

[Carol Ann]

> Today was Rachel's 4 month appointment. She is 4 months and 4 days old. I
am
> very distressed and upset- her measurements are good and she is very happy
> and alert and interested in environment. She has grown VERY well, and has
> never been sick. But the pediatrician grew concerned and sort of addled
> while holding her and checking her out and wants her to see a Pediatric
> Neurologist this week, to see if further testing or treatment, or physical
> therapy or something is warranted.
>
> Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have head
> control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her tummy.
SHe
> will hold her head up and look all around when you sit and hold her with
> your tummy to hers. But as for rolling over, she will get her legs and
lower
> body, and one arm, but not move her head or seem like she really WANTS to
> roll over.
>
> It's the head thing that has the dr concerned- she keeps arching her back
> often, and most of the time seems to want to hold her head with her neck
> very arched, Even in her sleep, on a flat surface, she will roll her head
> back as if she is looking up as far as she can and go to sleep that way.
> Make sense? When you hold her instead of her head looking straight at you
a
> lot of the time, she lets it fall way back. She CAN hold her head up. WHat
> bothered me is the ped. said she has "never seen a baby do like THIS, this
> often and this much, it seems extreme". She asked me "is she like this all
> the time?" and said she didn't know what to make of it, didn't even know
if
> she needs to order tests- she wants a neurologist to determine that.
>
> I am VERY VERY upset. My husband is actually coming home from work for
half
> a day because I am so worried and distraught- I woke up today with a
> headache, one of my sometimes-migraine-prone days out of the blue, and
this
> has really made my head pound because I am stressed/worried that something
> is wrong.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head
cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.
>
> One thing that is REALLY worrying me- I am SO afraid that something
happened
> when I fell while while pregnant, that we couldn't know at the time caused
> some harm to her neurologically, her spinal cord/nerves or something. All
we
> knew is that it didn't separate the placenta or cause a problem with her
> heartrate- OMG, what if when I fell, it caused something with her brain or
> spine development? What if it jarred something and caused this? She has
> always been this way as far as wanting her head extremely back, but we
> thought she'd grow out of it as she started holding her obble head up and
> getting head control.
>
> What could be wrong? I am really upset. If anyone has been through this I
> will even give out my phone number to talk because I am really that
worried
> and upset. What will a pediatric neurologist be able to tell?
> Jill

Oh my goodness, Jill. Just wait and see what the doc says. Try not to
panic. She's a gorgeous little girl.

My prayers are with you.

~Carol Ann
www.lowcarblosers.com ~ Home of the FREE Monthly Weightloss Challenge
http://tinyurl.com/66bvu <---Recent Pictures of Morgan

[Kelly]

Oh how scary to hear that when you are so sure everything is going well.

None of my children rolled over on purpose at 4 months old. #1 may have,
but I doubt it. As far as the head thing goes, maybe she has weak neck
muscles because of the position she was in while you were pregnant. That
would explain why she likes that and does it to "the extreme." A friend of
mine had a baby with very weak neck muscles and with some easy physical
therapy it got better.

Even babies that can hold their heads up have some sort of flexibility-ever
look in your rearview mirror to the backseat and see the baby's head
practically perpendicular to their body? It looks freaky.

Anyway, I hope that you get some reassurance or answers ASAP-the worrying
will get the best of you. I am so sorry for your day.

Give Rachel some huge hugs and kisses from her MKP family!

Kelly
#4 2/05

"Jill" > wrote in message
...
> Today was Rachel's 4 month appointment. She is 4 months and 4 days old. I
am
> very distressed and upset- her measurements are good and she is very happy
> and alert and interested in environment. She has grown VERY well, and has
> never been sick. But the pediatrician grew concerned and sort of addled
> while holding her and checking her out and wants her to see a Pediatric
> Neurologist this week, to see if further testing or treatment, or physical
> therapy or something is warranted.
>
> Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have head
> control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her tummy.
SHe
> will hold her head up and look all around when you sit and hold her with
> your tummy to hers. But as for rolling over, she will get her legs and
lower
> body, and one arm, but not move her head or seem like she really WANTS to
> roll over.
>
> It's the head thing that has the dr concerned- she keeps arching her back
> often, and most of the time seems to want to hold her head with her neck
> very arched, Even in her sleep, on a flat surface, she will roll her head
> back as if she is looking up as far as she can and go to sleep that way.
> Make sense? When you hold her instead of her head looking straight at you
a
> lot of the time, she lets it fall way back. She CAN hold her head up. WHat
> bothered me is the ped. said she has "never seen a baby do like THIS, this
> often and this much, it seems extreme". She asked me "is she like this all
> the time?" and said she didn't know what to make of it, didn't even know
if
> she needs to order tests- she wants a neurologist to determine that.
>
> I am VERY VERY upset. My husband is actually coming home from work for
half
> a day because I am so worried and distraught- I woke up today with a
> headache, one of my sometimes-migraine-prone days out of the blue, and
this
> has really made my head pound because I am stressed/worried that something
> is wrong.
>
> Has anyone ever heard of this- at 4 months, a baby keeping their head
cocked
> back all the time etc? Or not rolling over? Or not trying to sit up on her
> own? Or arching her back a lot? I noticed the back arching only sometimes-
> she does it when my mom holds her I think because she is not comfortable
> with my mom. She will do it occasionally with my husband or me or someone
> else, but also, a lot of times she won't do it. But she does HATE tummy
> time.
>
> One thing that is REALLY worrying me- I am SO afraid that something
happened
> when I fell while while pregnant, that we couldn't know at the time caused
> some harm to her neurologically, her spinal cord/nerves or something. All
we
> knew is that it didn't separate the placenta or cause a problem with her
> heartrate- OMG, what if when I fell, it caused something with her brain or
> spine development? What if it jarred something and caused this? She has
> always been this way as far as wanting her head extremely back, but we
> thought she'd grow out of it as she started holding her obble head up and
> getting head control.
>
> What could be wrong? I am really upset. If anyone has been through this I
> will even give out my phone number to talk because I am really that
worried
> and upset. What will a pediatric neurologist be able to tell?
> Jill
>
>
>

[Jenrose]

>> just wants a specialist's opinion.
>
> Maybe it is just my tendency to worry about stuff like this in general but
> anytime I am refered to see anyone that is not a general dr I tend to
> worry
> more. I am verry layed back about some things but if there is something
> wrong with Bonnie I pace and research and then I worry because everyone
> knows the research is all bad;)
> The ped said I have never seen this before.. that to me means unusual,
> rare.. unusual and rare= panic;)
>

Boy...you ought to hang out with me for a while. They can't *make* me
panic.<G> Someone refers me to a specialist and I think, "Oh good, someone
who will know enough not to freak out."

Seriously--I've seen OB's flip at the idea of FVL while a perinatologist
said, "Oh, ho hum, you're only heterozygous." Between the allergies, sleep
apnea, etc... I see more specialists than my regular doc, and you just get
*over* the idea that it's about panicking.

Specialists are simply about going to someone with a broader range of
experience with a specific issue. This usually means *less* panic, because
people don't panic at the "known" as much as the "unknown".

For comparison:
My family practice doc wouldn't do a followup blood test during a
miscarriage without doing a full exam first, even though I'd just had a full
exam somewhere else.

The CNM's office was happy to call in the test: more familiarity=less
paranoia.

My CNM's office wouldn't see me for an ultrasound for spotting if I was also
seeing a homebirth practitioner....
But the perinatologist's office was totally cool about it and happy to do
the test and other stuff that the homebirth midwife didn't have privileges
for.

In these cases, no one was panicking, but different levels of specialty had
different comfort levels with taking responsibility for certain "calls"
regarding my care.

When I get a weird mole or two, the FP will generally refer to a
dermatologist who will shrug, say, "looks fine" and "come back in a year and
we'll look again." No biggie. The dermatologist sees more moles, and knows
better what's normal and what's not. No panic, it's just the doc saying,
"someone with more experience should look at this, because I don't want to
worry you if there isn't a problem, OR gloss over something that could be a
problem." My mom did that with one mole, and it ended up being melanoma. The
derm removed it on the spot (so to speak) and she's fine. Most of the moles
*aren't* melanoma...but wouldn't you rather have a specialist recognize it
and deal with it or be *sure* it's not a problem?

Jenrose

[karlisa]

Thanks, Barbara! It's nice to find others who have been through similar
circumstances. Just out of curiosity, how old was your daughter when she
learned to walk? DS is now 26 months and we have him in rigid AFOs to
assist him in learning to walk. I'm praying he'll be walking by Christmas,
as I will be 7 months pregnant by then and have a more difficult time
carrying him. He is cruising now, and yesterday I actually saw him try to
stand from a crawl position. He didn't get it, but I was excited that he
wanted to try! :-)))

lisa
micksmom
2 years old
Baby 2: edd 2-7-05

"Circe" > wrote in message
news:1fo1d.28039$aW5.20954@fed1read07...
> karlisa wrote:
> > My son Mick was born with hypotonia. He is now 26 months and has
> > global developmental delays.
>
> Hey, Karlisa, my now 5yo daughter was diagnosed with hypotonia at 15
months.
> She's doing quite well now, though she has some receptive language
problems
> (related, I'm positive, the hypotonia) and is still a bit behind in both
> fine and gross motor development. If you ever want to chat, feel free to
> drop me a line by e-mail.
> --
> Be well, Barbara
> Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 5), and the Rising Son (Julian, 7)
>
> This week's suggested Bush/Cheney campaign bumper sticker:
> "Don't think. Vote Bush!"
>
> All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
> Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
> other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
> fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman
>
>

[Circe]

karlisa wrote:
> Thanks, Barbara! It's nice to find others who have been through
> similar circumstances.

Definitely. There was a hypotonia mailing list I subscribed to for a while
when I was really in the thick of it, and it was great. The only problem
with it turned out to be the *massive* volumes of stuff that came through. I
eventually unsubbed because I couldn't keep up any more!

> Just out of curiosity, how old was your
> daughter when she learned to walk?

She was 22 months and she never needed any assistive devices to learn.
Mostly, she just needed PT to be modelled through things; to this day, she
learns only experientially (and was a *nightmare* to potty train as a result
<g>).

From what you describe, it sounds like your son's hypotonia is a bit more
severe and more global than Aurora's. Her hypotonia is all proximal (in and
near her torso), which meant that her trouble was more in getting up to walk
than in actually walking. She could hold herself in a standing position
quite easily if placed there, but it was many, many months before she could
pull herself up to a standing position.

> DS is now 26 months and we have
> him in rigid AFOs to assist him in learning to walk. I'm praying
> he'll be walking by Christmas, as I will be 7 months pregnant by
> then and have a more difficult time carrying him.

I hear that! I managed to hold off on getting pregnant with my third until
after Aurora started to walk because I just didn't see how I could handle a
baby and a non-walking toddler. But you know, I think the most wonderful
words I ever heard were from the neuro when she was 15 months old and he
told me (based on the fact that she could stand when propped against
furniture) that she *would* walk. Until those words were spoken, I wasn't
entirely convinced!

> He is cruising
> now, and yesterday I actually saw him try to stand from a crawl
> position. He didn't get it, but I was excited that he wanted to
> try! :-)))
>
I'll bet. I honestly don't think people with "normal" children can really
appreciate how truly exciting and magnificent a thing it is when a child
with developmental problems gains a new skill. It's not that it's not fun
and wonderful with a normally developing child; it's just that you *expect*
it to happen. With a developmentally delayed child, you're never entirely
sure what to expect and that makes all their achievements seem infinitely
more impressive.

As I said, any time you want to chat, please drop me a line!
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 5), and the Rising Son (Julian, 7)

This week's suggested Bush/Cheney campaign bumper sticker:
"Don't think. Vote Bush!"

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

[Donna]

"Jill" > wrote in message
...
> Today was Rachel's 4 month appointment. She is 4 months and 4 days old. I
am
> very distressed and upset- her measurements are good and she is very happy
> and alert and interested in environment. She has grown VERY well, and has
> never been sick. But the pediatrician grew concerned and sort of addled
> while holding her and checking her out and wants her to see a Pediatric
> Neurologist this week, to see if further testing or treatment, or physical
> therapy or something is warranted.
>
> Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have head
> control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her tummy.
SHe
> will hold her head up and look all around when you sit and hold her with
> your tummy to hers. But as for rolling over, she will get her legs and
lower
> body, and one arm, but not move her head or seem like she really WANTS to
> roll over.

Hey Jill-

I'm going to echo what most everyone is saying, and tell you to take a deep
breath and try to relax. It sounds like your pediatrician is being *very*
cautious, and personally, I think that's a good thing. A little parental
anxiety is a small price to pay to make sure that she isn't missing a
potential problem. Most likely, you will get the referral, and the
neurologist will tell you that nothing whatsoever is wrong with your
daughter.

If it helps, my daughter Sarah didn't hold her head up until about 4, 4.5
months old. The day care staff sort of delicately inquired whether she
needed to see a neurologist, but my pediatrician just smiled and said it was
within the (very wide) range of normal for babies, and told me not to worry.
Sarah eventually got her head up, and she's developing perfectly normally.
So please try not to worry, Jill. If there is something wrong, the
neurologist is a good referral, but most likely, your daughter is well
within the norms.

Please let us know how it turns out, won't you?

Donna

[Paula Johnson]

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:33:59 GMT, "karlisa" > wrote:

>T DS is now 26 months and we have him in rigid AFOs to
>assist him in learning to walk. I'm praying he'll be walking by Christmas,
>as I will be 7 months pregnant by then and have a more difficult time
>carrying him. He is cruising now, and yesterday I actually saw him try to
>stand from a crawl position. He didn't get it, but I was excited that he
>wanted to try! :-)))

Hi Lisa :-),

Just barging in here to say that this is such great news about Mick! I
know we've talked before about Olivia's hypotonia as well. We're still
waiting on her SMOs and hope she'll walk by their 2nd b-day (PT says
maybe even by the end of the year -- almost 21 months -- but not to
hold our breath :-).

Anyway, I just had to jump in when you said that Mick is trying to
stand independently. Good for him! Olivia is currently doing the same
thing -- she can't do it, but she tries, which is wonderful to see!
(In her case, I think her determination is pushed along a little by
her sister, who's walking.)

Hope all is going well with your pregnancy. You are sure going to have
your hands full, isn't it wonderful? :-)))

--
Paula
Mom to Olivia and Cassie (b. 4/8/03 @ 26 weeks)
^Grace^ (b. 5/16/02 d. 5/17/02) and ^Adam^ (b/d. 5/17/02)

[pologirl]

Oh Jill! Take a deep breath and try to sort out what is real
from what is fear.

First, falling while pregnant. Do *not* guilt-trip yourself
over this. Babies are very well protected against bumps in
utero. Rachel came to no harm then and whatever is going
on now, if anything, is not a consequence. You can be sure
of that because most (if not all) of Rachel's motor control
is normal. I suggest you make a note now to ask about this,
when you see the neurologist. You are *still* worrying over
that episode; explain that to the neurologist and *ask* for
reassurance. And get over secretly blaming your 7yo niece
for her role in your fall; Rachel was not harmed.

It is not unusual for babies at 4 months not to roll over,
nor want to. And to hate being on their tummies. Mine hated
it, so for a while was "delayed" on the steps-toward-crawling
timeline. Now he is "ahead". Whoopdedoo. Certainly most
babies do not sit up by themselves, or even try to sit up by
themselves, at 4 months. Many at that age do not yet have
really good control of their heads. Given how little Rachel
gets carried (you are not in the habit of wearing her in a
sling or pack several hours per day), actually she sounds to
be doing very well in the head control department!

Now, the only "strange" thing is Rachel's arching her neck
and/or back. This behavior often is a young baby's way of
saying No! My baby, now 5 1/2 months old, does it whenever
he decides to refuse food, or he is cranky and bored and I
don't please him. He also does it, in a form of stretching,
almost every time he wakes up from a nap and always when I
pick him up when he is asleep or very sleepy. He likes to
sleep on his side and when he was younger he would crank his
head as far back as it would go. I have photos of him like
that. Normal or not, I think he is fine, but some parents
would be disturbed. So what? Your Rachel does not sound
normal in this respect but here is the key point: abnormal
does not necessarily mean there is something wrong. So try
to be calm and just look into it. The sign of a good mommy
is calmness and due diligence, *not* a perfect baby.

I looked at Rachel's pics and, to me, what jumps out is how
most photos (and all the more recent ones) show her in some
way propped or snugged in a comfy nest. And when you go out
she is strapped into a carseat, then into a stroller, right?
She gets very little opportunity to exercise her body, so I
am not at all surprised she has low muscle tone (hypotonia).
Again, this is not something for you to beat yourself about!

Your pediatrician sounds fairly young and inexperienced. So
get an expert opinion from someone who can tell if Rachel's
putting her head back is due to lack of muscle tone primarily,
or is a behavioral trait, which may secondarily lead to lower
muscle tone. Or her muscle tone may be perfectly fine, but
Rachel is really into rejecting engagement with people, hence
looking at the ceiling in order to tune out. Or this is just
a quirk.

Regardless, no reason to panic. The pediatrician's comments
are making you crazy (they would make me crazy too), but try
to remember Rachel is no different than usual. Meaning this
is not an emergency.

BREAK

While I was writing the above, other posts accumulated, all
saying almost exactly the same thing. I do have just one new
idea to add: Jill, to me you seem incredibly, unbearably
tense and miserable pretty much nonstop. Is that true? If
so, please do yourself a favor and (on some day when you feel
reasonably happy) sit down and start to ask yourself why this
is. Also, consider re-reading your posts going back a year;
see what has come to pass, and what has not, and recall what
your hopes and fears were then, vs now. See for yourself how
you have changed, or not changed. Take control of your own
life, and let go of the rest. In particular, notice how you
tend to make each issue an all-or-nothing situation. A major
problem, or nothing at all. Jill, rarely is life so simple,
and forcing everything to extremes of black or white doesn't
leave much room for coping with uncertainty.

Peace,

Pologirl

[karlisa]

<snipping some>
> She gets very little opportunity to exercise her body, so I
> am not at all surprised she has low muscle tone (hypotonia).
> Again, this is not something for you to beat yourself about!

Not to start an argument with you here Pologirl, but hypotonia (low muscle
tone) is a condition you are born with. Yes, physical therapy is the
answer, but a child with hypotonia generally has little drive or
determination to move his or her body in the first place. It's not
lazinessness on either the parent's side or the child--it's a medical
condition. Believe me, I've worked with my kid for over 2 years now and
he's still not walking--he's not lazy, neither am I or the therapist. He
has a medical condition which prevents him from moving his body like other
kids do.

lisa
micksmom
26 months old
Baby 2: edd 2-7-05

[Circe]

karlisa wrote:
> <snipping some>
>> She gets very little opportunity to exercise her body, so I
>> am not at all surprised she has low muscle tone (hypotonia).
>> Again, this is not something for you to beat yourself about!
>
> Not to start an argument with you here Pologirl, but hypotonia (low
> muscle tone) is a condition you are born with. Yes, physical
> therapy is the answer, but a child with hypotonia generally has
> little drive or determination to move his or her body in the first
> place. It's not lazinessness on either the parent's side or the
> child--it's a medical condition. Believe me, I've worked with my
> kid for over 2 years now and he's still not walking--he's not lazy,
> neither am I or the therapist. He has a medical condition which
> prevents him from moving his body like other kids do.
>
To add to this, hypotonia doesn't mean "low muscle tone" in the sense of
someone whose muscles are not well exercised. That was one thing that
confused me early on in my daughter's diagnosis. What "low muscle tone"
means in a medical sense is that a person's muscles don't contract as
quickly or as strongly as a normal person's muscles do.It's the polar
opposite of hypertonia (or spasticity), which is when the muscles contract
too much and don't relax properly. For a hypotonic person, moving large (and
sometimes small) muscle groups is very difficult because it takes great
effort on the part of the muscles to get the job done. I've heard it
described as being as though you are carrying extra weight all over your
body. So it's nothing at all to do with exercise or making muscles
stronger--ironically, it's quite possible to have very strong, very "toned"
muscles and still be hypotonic!

The reason physical therapy is effective for hypotonia isn't because it
makes kids exercise and therefore makes their muscles toned, but that it can
show them the most efficient, easiest way to physically accomplish a
particular task. If you think about how the average baby learns to crawl and
then walk, you'll know they don't necessarily do it in the most efficient,
easiest way--they tend to go through a lot of fits and starts before they
figure out exactly how to do it. That's just too hard for a hypotonic child,
though, so modelling them through the movements in physical therapy helps
them pattern the task in their brains so they can do it without quite so
many fits and starts.
--
Be well, Barbara
Mom to Sin (Vernon, 2), Misery (Aurora, 5), and the Rising Son (Julian, 7)

This week's suggested Bush/Cheney campaign bumper sticker:
"Four More Wars!"

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

[pologirl]

"karlisa" > wrote:
> Not to start an argument with you here Pologirl, but hypotonia (low muscle
> tone) is a condition you are born with.

And another poster says hypotonia is not low muscle tone per se, but
one specific cause of low muscle tone. Well, I suggest we all agree
on one meaning, if we can? The US National Library of Medicine gives
hypotonia as a synonym for low muscle tone, and lists many causes:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003298.htm

One cause not listed is the practice (common in some cultures) of
extreme swaddling until the infant is a year old or older. What we
may think of as normal development is noticably delayed in these
infants but, once no longer swaddled, they soon catch up.

My baby has a large head and really hated tummy time, so was in
some respects delayed, to the point that his pediatrician was a
little concerned at his 2-month checkup. Once I did some med lit
research I was not concerned. I concluded that his large head was
at that time more than he could manage, but he was otherwise okay.
And his large head was of no concern, not being extraordinarily
large. He hated tummy time in part because whenever he tried to
lift his head, instead he lifted his backside and did a face-plant.

Hoping Rachel is okay and her Mommy too,

Pologirl

[Sarah Vaughan]

In message >, Jill
> writes
>Anyway, what got me was not that the ped. mentioned a possible problem,
>it was that she said "I have never seen anything like this before! I
>mean, I have had babies that arch a little or this or that but I have
>never had one do *like this*". To me, that sounds bad- a peditrician
>who sees a ton of babies, thinks mine has a problem, and says she has
>never seen one that bad before??? That is verbatim what she said, not
>what I drew from what she said.

I know this sounds like a subtle difference, but.... did she actually
say that she hadn't seen one that *bad* before, or just that she hadn't
seen anything like this before? Seems to me there's a difference in how
those two sound. (And, BTW, that was a rhetorical question. I am
willing to bet that you are not going to be able to remember
word-for-word what she said, something that's hard enough to do anyway
with any conversation, let alone one that you're in a state of panic
about. So don't even stress yourself out trying to think which of the
two it was.)

Other people have already made the points I would have wanted to make,
so all I wanted to do was add in a doctor's perspective here. I've been
a qualified and practicing doctor for nine years now, and it's an
unusual day on which I _don't_ see something that I can't recall having
seen before. Most of the time it's something fairly minor that's similar
enough to stuff I've previously seen that I can at least categorise it.
Now and again, and this is not particularly unusual, it's something
that's far enough out of the ordinary that I really feel that I don't
know what's going on here. But this doesn't mean that I'm worried about
it or feel that anything is necessarily wrong - just that it's unusual.

One thing I've concluded as a result of my experience of being a doctor
is that it's a pretty unusual person who's always usual, if that makes
any sense. ;-) I've found that the workings of the human body just
don't fit easily into the kind of stuff we see in the textbooks. Sure,
you can get used to particular patterns that most people fit into with
regard to X, but there is always going to be someone who doesn't fit in
that pattern, not because there's anything wrong, but just because
that's the way they are.

When I see something that's out of the ordinary, sometimes I will refer
it to a specialist, just to see what's going on. As other people have
said, this is partly a matter of covering my backside - not just in the
medicolegal sense, but in the sense of what I could later square with my
conscience if it later turned out I _had_ missed something important.
It's also my way of trying to learn a bit more - I figure that if it is
something identifiable, the specialist will write back and let me know
what it is and then hopefully I'll know for the next time it turns up.
But I do these referrals knowing that the vast majority of the time it's
going to turn out not to be anything serious. Quite honestly, there are
a lot of times when I actually feel silly as I dictate the referral
letter, because I think 'Dammit, I bet this consultant will think I'm a
silly overreacting GP when s/he sees what a minor thing this actually
is.'

So - I know it must be worrying when it's your little girl the doctor's
talking about. But I can promise you that "I haven't seen this before"
does NOT equate to "Something's wrong."

And, BTW, it's totally normal for a baby not to be rolling or trying to
sit by 4 months. And no way could you have injured her spine by falling
when pregnant - that's why the amniotic fluid is there, to cushion her.

Hope this helps!


All the best,

Sarah
--
"I once requested an urgent admission for a homeopath who had become depressed
and taken a massive underdose" - Phil Peverley

[sharalyn]

"Jill" > wrote in message >...

> Rachel is very wiggly which is supposedly normal, and *seems* to have head
> control, but she is not rolling over yet. She hates being on her tummy. SHe
> will hold her head up and look all around when you sit and hold her with
> your tummy to hers. But as for rolling over, she will get her legs and lower
> body, and one arm, but not move her head or seem like she really WANTS to
> roll over.

Wouldn't worry about *any* of this. She has plenty of time for rolling
over, and lots of babies *hate* tummy time. :-)

> It's the head thing that has the dr concerned- she keeps arching her back
> often, and most of the time seems to want to hold her head with her neck
> very arched, Even in her sleep, on a flat surface, she will roll her head
> back as if she is looking up as far as she can and go to sleep that way.
> Make sense? When you hold her instead of her head looking straight at you a
> lot of the time, she lets it fall way back. She CAN hold her head up. WHat
> bothered me is the ped. said she has "never seen a baby do like THIS, this
> often and this much, it seems extreme". She asked me "is she like this all
> the time?" and said she didn't know what to make of it, didn't even know if
> she needs to order tests- she wants a neurologist to determine that.

My son did this a *lot*. He had Gastric Reflux (silent type--he'd just
sit there swallowing--wasn't any more spitty than most babies). In his
case it was an attempt to get away from the pain of his stomach
contents trying to come back up. The arching is a *classic* symptom of
reflux. We had a wedge built (by prescription) for Alexander so that
his head was elevated even when he slept, and he was on Zantac to
reduce the amount of acid in the reflux. He out grew it (as most
babies do). Also, he hated tummy time because it would compress the
contents of his stomach and that made it much easier for the reflux to
want to shoot up his esophagus. He was much happier upright all the
time.

I hope you get some answers soon. (((hugs)))

Sharalyn
mom to Alexander James (9/21/01)

[Not My Real Name]

> Sharalyn
> mom to Alexander James (9/21/01)

Hi Sharalyn, nice to see you! Happy birthday to Alexander! Wow, 3
already -- time really flies!


--
-Sara:)
Mommy to DD, 2 1/2
And Someone Due 2/05

[sharalyn]

"Not My Real Name" > wrote in message >...
> > Sharalyn
> > mom to Alexander James (9/21/01)
>
> Hi Sharalyn, nice to see you! Happy birthday to Alexander! Wow, 3
> already -- time really flies!

Hey Sara! Congrats on #2. I have to read from the web, so I don't get
on here very often anymore. I'm talking with Dh to see if I can't have
newsgroups again! ;-)

Sharalyn
mom to Alexander James (9/21/01)

[Not My Real Name]

"sharalyn" > wrote in message
m...
> "Not My Real Name" > wrote in message
> >...
>> > Sharalyn
>> > mom to Alexander James (9/21/01)
>>
>> Hi Sharalyn, nice to see you! Happy birthday to Alexander! Wow, 3
>> already -- time really flies!
>
> Hey Sara! Congrats on #2.

Thank you!

> I have to read from the web, so I don't get
> on here very often anymore. I'm talking with Dh to see if I can't have
> newsgroups again! ;-)
>
LOL! It's hard to read from the web. Here's hoping we see you again
regularly soon!


--
-Sara:)
Mommy to DD, 2 1/2
And Someone Due 2/05

[Sarah Vaughan]

In message <A2o1d.86642$3l3.47645@attbi_s03>, toypup
> writes
>DD looked like she was stiff and shaking hard like she was having a
>seizure the other day, except she was BF'ing through the whole thing.
>Her ped didn't know what it could be. I don't think he's ever heard of
>the combination of symptoms I described for him ever in his life. That
>didn't make him a bad ped. That didn't mean it was serious. He's seen
>lots of babies before. It's just something that's never come up, at
>least not the way it did with DD. He went to consult with the
>pediatric neurologist. Turns out, the neurologist did know what it was
>just from the description. He didn't have to run any tests. It's not serious.

OK, I'm curious - what was it? If I see any babies with the same thing,
it could be useful to know. (I'd still want to refer them for a second
opinion rather than just rely on 'I heard this on the internet....', but
it would be extremely helpful to be able to tell the parents, in the
meantime, "I think that this is all it is, and just want to confirm
that".)


All the best,

Sarah

--
"I once requested an urgent admission for a homeopath who had become depressed
and taken a massive underdose" - Phil Peverley

[toypup]

"Sarah Vaughan" > wrote in message
...
> In message <A2o1d.86642$3l3.47645@attbi_s03>, toypup
> > writes
>>DD looked like she was stiff and shaking hard like she was having a
>>seizure the other day, except she was BF'ing through the whole thing. Her
>>ped didn't know what it could be. I don't think he's ever heard of the
>>combination of symptoms I described for him ever in his life. That didn't
>>make him a bad ped. That didn't mean it was serious. He's seen lots of
>>babies before. It's just something that's never come up, at least not the
>>way it did with DD. He went to consult with the pediatric neurologist.
>>Turns out, the neurologist did know what it was just from the description.
>>He didn't have to run any tests. It's not serious.
>
> OK, I'm curious - what was it? If I see any babies with the same thing,
> it could be useful to know. (I'd still want to refer them for a second
> opinion rather than just rely on 'I heard this on the internet....', but
> it would be extremely helpful to be able to tell the parents, in the
> meantime, "I think that this is all it is, and just want to confirm
> that".)

They agreed that it was "sleep myoclonus."