Need a couple of ideas and resources

[slykitten]

I'm coming out of lurk-mode for a brief while. Mostly because I'm having
some issues with my son.
Before I proceed, I'll give a very brief history:
1) he's under the care of a psychiatrist for his meds
2) he's on meds (a cocktail really)
3) he's been in the hospital for certain behaviors that are concerning that
needed immediate attention and got immediate attention.
4) we have a social worker
5) we have a therapist (in-home psychologist who is helping me with both
parenting, coping and behavior modification skills for this kiddo)
6) I've learned safe restraint techniques for when he becomes violent (which
thankfully isn't all that often anymore)
7) he's on a behavior mod plan in school
8) he has a great IEP

So what am I missing? Why does this kid constantly tell people that he hates
living with me? This past weekend I was in the hospital.... very sick. I
have diverticulitis which I found out is aparently pretty rare in people
under the age of 30.... I'll be 29 on Sunday. My son threw a fit and told
some people at his school about how I left him alone with no one around. The
reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the hospital
where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them, knowing
that my friend was with me. He explained to my son on the way to the
hospital that mommy is sick and needs to be taken care of by special doctors
who can help mommy's tummy get better with special medicine that gets rid of
infection. I was gone only 3 days. I just don't get it.
Over Labor day weekend, I visited with my parents and when my son threw a
fit in the middle of a Wal Mart store, he had to be restrained until he was
calmed down... I actually asked the door greeter to call in a manager and
security guard to help me.... Are there resources out there that I may be
missing? Is this something that's just behavioral or was this something
resembling sort of like a seizure?
I'm coming out of lurk at the risk of being massively flamed and attacked.
What I'm actually doing is asking for help, ideas, resources, links and any
other ideas and advice anyone is willing to offer and share. I feel crappy
as it is. I really don't need anyone's cruel and judgemental remarks on top
of it right now. I'm also not looking for anyone to coddle me and say, "oh
you poor thing!" because I don't belive that I'm in any way burdened. I
believe I'm being challenged but have reached a bit of an obstacle that I'm
not sure how to get past.
Thanks.

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Betsy]

"slykitten" > wrote in message
...
> I'm coming out of lurk-mode for a brief while. Mostly because I'm having
> some issues with my son.
> Before I proceed, I'll give a very brief history:
> 1) he's under the care of a psychiatrist for his meds
> 2) he's on meds (a cocktail really)
> 3) he's been in the hospital for certain behaviors that are concerning
> that
> needed immediate attention and got immediate attention.
> 4) we have a social worker
> 5) we have a therapist (in-home psychologist who is helping me with both
> parenting, coping and behavior modification skills for this kiddo)
> 6) I've learned safe restraint techniques for when he becomes violent
> (which
> thankfully isn't all that often anymore)
> 7) he's on a behavior mod plan in school
> 8) he has a great IEP
>
> So what am I missing? Why does this kid constantly tell people that he
> hates
> living with me? This past weekend I was in the hospital.... very sick. I
> have diverticulitis which I found out is aparently pretty rare in people
> under the age of 30.... I'll be 29 on Sunday. My son threw a fit and told
> some people at his school about how I left him alone with no one around.
> The
> reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the
> hospital
> where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them, knowing
> that my friend was with me. He explained to my son on the way to the
> hospital that mommy is sick and needs to be taken care of by special
> doctors
> who can help mommy's tummy get better with special medicine that gets rid
> of
> infection. I was gone only 3 days. I just don't get it.
> Over Labor day weekend, I visited with my parents and when my son threw a
> fit in the middle of a Wal Mart store, he had to be restrained until he
> was
> calmed down... I actually asked the door greeter to call in a manager and
> security guard to help me.... Are there resources out there that I may be
> missing? Is this something that's just behavioral or was this something
> resembling sort of like a seizure?
> I'm coming out of lurk at the risk of being massively flamed and attacked.
> What I'm actually doing is asking for help, ideas, resources, links and
> any
> other ideas and advice anyone is willing to offer and share. I feel crappy
> as it is. I really don't need anyone's cruel and judgemental remarks on
> top
> of it right now. I'm also not looking for anyone to coddle me and say, "oh
> you poor thing!" because I don't belive that I'm in any way burdened. I
> believe I'm being challenged but have reached a bit of an obstacle that
> I'm
> not sure how to get past.
> Thanks.
>
> --
> "Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
> You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
> ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>

You don't say what his diagnosis is, or why he's on meds. Certain
medications can cause such outbursts, as well as these same outbursts being
part of the condition for which he is being treated. For example, I know a
child who has ADHD, and at the drop of a hat, he'll start crying, or
suddenly scream at his mother, "I HATE YOU!" It's an unfortunate part of
the ADHD. The sibling of a patient I care for also has ADHD. He out of the
blue one day, tells his grandmother I'm a liar, and I don't take care of his
brother, I actually torture him; because I agreed with the grandmother on
what the mother said about his medication schedule. I guess basically what
I'm trying to say is; even though it may be nerve wracking, frustrating and
hurtful to you, this could be something that is typical. Behavior
modification doesn't happen overnight, and stress can set things back.
Doesn't matter that your son's stepdad was there, he sees himself as
abandoned, even though you were coming home. You can't help getting sick,
and needing hospitalization. I know, I can't either being diabetic. The
best you can do is continue what you've been doing if it's been working.
Stay consistant, and reassure your son that you love him. I can't say as
this helps, and I can't say I have any ideas other than the plan you've got
going. Keep working with the professionals you have in place, and Good
luck.

Betsy

[Purchgdss]

>1) he's under the care of a psychiatrist for his meds
>2) he's on meds (a cocktail really)
>3) he's been in the hospital for certain behaviors that are concerning that
>needed immediate attention and got immediate attention.
>4) we have a social worker
>5) we have a therapist (in-home psychologist who is helping me with both
>parenting, coping and behavior modification skills for this kiddo)
>6) I've learned safe restraint techniques for when he becomes violent (which
>thankfully isn't all that often anymore)
>7) he's on a behavior mod plan in school
>8) he has a great IEP

Based on what his diagnosis is and how old he is, would be how to proceed.
I've had these similar issues and life events with my own son. But from the
little you have shared, I suggest researching "Reactive Attachment Disorder".

>
>So what am I missing? Why does this kid constantly tell people that he hates
>living with me? This past weekend I was in the hospital.... very sick. I
>have diverticulitis which I found out is aparently pretty rare in people
>under the age of 30.... I'll be 29 on Sunday. My son threw a fit and told
>some people at his school about how I left him alone with no one around. The
>reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the hospital
>where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them, knowing
>that my friend was with me. He explained to my son on the way to the
>hospital that mommy is sick and needs to be taken care of by special doctors
>who can help mommy's tummy get better with special medicine that gets rid of
>infection. I was gone only 3 days. I just don't get it.
>Over Labor day weekend, I visited with my parents and when my son threw a
>fit in the middle of a Wal Mart store, he had to be restrained until he was
>calmed down... I actually asked the door greeter to call in a manager and
>security guard to help me.... Are there resources out there that I may be
>missing? Is this something that's just behavioral or was this something
>resembling sort of like a seizure?
>I'm coming out of lurk at the risk of being massively flamed and attacked.
>What I'm actually doing is asking for help, ideas, resources, links and any
>other ideas and advice anyone is willing to offer and share.

It could be that your hospital stay freaked him out and he reacted by going
into "self-preservation" mode. Crazy lying and false accusations are hallmarks
of Reactive Attachment Disorder. Check out the behaviors list and if he meets
enough of the criteria start exploring the options.

I must say, this mental illness is not a "doom & gloom" thing, they CAN get
better. My son is proof.



Just my 2 cents.........
Christine

[Joelle]

I know Slykitten has me filtered but someone should tell her my son had similar
problems.

She may need to try lots of different meds and different therapists. It took
awile before we found a good fit.

I don't know how old her son is. My son started after his dad died at ll.
He's 16 now and things are much better but he's always going to be a little
different and have to learn to control his temper or suffer the consequences if
he doesn't.

My son also was hospitalized for awhile.

Basically tell her I said there's no easy fix. People who don't understand
will assume she's doing something wrong and if she just did the right thing,
this would all go away. She may think that. The truth is, you can do
everything you can, and it still won't go away. It's not like an infection
where you take antibiotics and everything is back to normal.

It sounds like she's doing everything she can. There was a time when if he
didn't get better, I would have sent him away for his own good, my good and his
sister's good. It didn't come to that but if it comes to that for her, she has
to accept its best for everyone.

This is not her fault. **** happens.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Tiffany]

We will just make the post appear.

T
"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> I know Slykitten has me filtered but someone should tell her my son had
similar
> problems.
>
> She may need to try lots of different meds and different therapists. It
took
> awile before we found a good fit.
>
> I don't know how old her son is. My son started after his dad died at ll.
> He's 16 now and things are much better but he's always going to be a
little
> different and have to learn to control his temper or suffer the
consequences if
> he doesn't.
>
> My son also was hospitalized for awhile.
>
> Basically tell her I said there's no easy fix. People who don't
understand
> will assume she's doing something wrong and if she just did the right
thing,
> this would all go away. She may think that. The truth is, you can do
> everything you can, and it still won't go away. It's not like an
infection
> where you take antibiotics and everything is back to normal.
>
> It sounds like she's doing everything she can. There was a time when if
he
> didn't get better, I would have sent him away for his own good, my good
and his
> sister's good. It didn't come to that but if it comes to that for her,
she has
> to accept its best for everyone.
>
> This is not her fault. **** happens.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: "slykitten"
>Date: 9/16/2004 12:54 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I'm coming out of lurk-mode for a brief while. Mostly because I'm having
>some issues with my son.
>Before I proceed, I'll give a very brief history:
>1) he's under the care of a psychiatrist for his meds
>2) he's on meds (a cocktail really)
>3) he's been in the hospital for certain behaviors that are concerning that
>needed immediate attention and got immediate attention.
>4) we have a social worker
>5) we have a therapist (in-home psychologist who is helping me with both
>parenting, coping and behavior modification skills for this kiddo)
>6) I've learned safe restraint techniques for when he becomes violent (which
>thankfully isn't all that often anymore)
>7) he's on a behavior mod plan in school
>8) he has a great IEP
>
>So what am I missing? Why does this kid constantly tell people that he hates
>living with me? This past weekend I was in the hospital.... very sick. I
>have diverticulitis which I found out is aparently pretty rare in people
>under the age of 30.... I'll be 29 on Sunday. My son threw a fit and told
>some people at his school about how I left him alone with no one around. The
>reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the hospital
>where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them, knowing
>that my friend was with me. He explained to my son on the way to the
>hospital that mommy is sick and needs to be taken care of by special doctors
>who can help mommy's tummy get better with special medicine that gets rid of
>infection. I was gone only 3 days. I just don't get it.
>Over Labor day weekend, I visited with my parents and when my son threw a
>fit in the middle of a Wal Mart store, he had to be restrained until he was
>calmed down... I actually asked the door greeter to call in a manager and
>security guard to help me.... Are there resources out there that I may be
>missing? Is this something that's just behavioral or was this something
>resembling sort of like a seizure?
>I'm coming out of lurk at the risk of being massively flamed and attacked.
>What I'm actually doing is asking for help, ideas, resources, links and any
>other ideas and advice anyone is willing to offer and share. I feel crappy
>as it is. I really don't need anyone's cruel and judgemental remarks on top
>of it right now. I'm also not looking for anyone to coddle me and say, "oh
>you poor thing!" because I don't belive that I'm in any way burdened. I
>believe I'm being challenged but have reached a bit of an obstacle that I'm
>not sure how to get past.
>Thanks.
>
>--
>"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
>You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
>~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>

Slykitten,
I too have been dealing with these same frustatioins. My daughter was diagnosed
Bipolar, by one doctor ,having intermittant explosive disorder by another , she
suffers learning disabilities , major depression, and we have been in the world
of therapists P-docs, medications , counsiling, IEP, even the legal system came
into play during the worst of her behaviors. What I did once I got my head
"outta there" Was educate myself as much as possible about the symptoms she was
having, the behaviors, and I never stopped pushing the doctors to get it right
.. We suffered through extreme medicating to no medication, Two years ago they
seemed to get it right, simply put her on Prozac 40 milligram a day. we had a
"wonderful" two years, anyone that has been here knows what I mean by that,
after a year of total hell. We did mobil therapy, for her individually and us
as a family. I can not say enough about having a good therapist, and doctor
involved. It turned our lives around. I am not saying at all that it is all
"fixed" no more outbursts, or impulsive behaviours, she had a severe problem
with cutting at one point that now recently came back into the picture. She
fell right back into some pretty severe behaviors recently , I feel due to her
babies father deciding he "made a mistake" and abandoned her and the baby for
another relationship. We have begun to re enter the mobil therapy again and are
having her re evaluated to medicate her properly once more now the prozac isn't
working like it had. My daughter just turned 17 and has a 9 month old baby,
they live with me of course and although her set back has added some additional
stress to the household , she is keeping up on her responsibilities to the
baby, ( at first she did not) it has been 2 months since the daddy person chose
to split the scene, we have let her have some time to grieve her loss( she of
course is not over it but is functioning much better) and she is back on task.
As with what you explain with your son, I believe there is no instant cure for
these mental health conditions , there are so many out there , it is a hit and
miss maybe forever. The best I have found for us is to educate my daughter on
her illness, help her to understand it, and give her the support she needs to
live as normal a life as possible. I have seen her thrive and I know she is
capable of coping well, she needs to have a constant support system. So I guess
what I am trying to ramble off here to you is you sound to be doing everything
possible to make your sons life manageable and sometimes that is all there is
to it. filling in as many of the blanks as possible and keeping the support
system involved. Unconditional love and never make him feel guilty for when
things get hard for him. Good luck !
Bev

[Karen O'Mara]

"slykitten" > wrote in message >...
> I'm coming out of lurk-mode for a brief while. Mostly because I'm having
> some issues with my son.
> Before I proceed, I'll give a very brief history:
> 1) he's under the care of a psychiatrist for his meds
> 2) he's on meds (a cocktail really)
> 3) he's been in the hospital for certain behaviors that are concerning that
> needed immediate attention and got immediate attention.
> 4) we have a social worker
> 5) we have a therapist (in-home psychologist who is helping me with both
> parenting, coping and behavior modification skills for this kiddo)
> 6) I've learned safe restraint techniques for when he becomes violent (which
> thankfully isn't all that often anymore)
> 7) he's on a behavior mod plan in school
> 8) he has a great IEP
>
> So what am I missing? Why does this kid constantly tell people that he hates
> living with me? This past weekend I was in the hospital.... very sick. I
> have diverticulitis which I found out is aparently pretty rare in people
> under the age of 30.... I'll be 29 on Sunday. My son threw a fit and told
> some people at his school about how I left him alone with no one around. The
> reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the hospital
> where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them, knowing
> that my friend was with me. He explained to my son on the way to the
> hospital that mommy is sick and needs to be taken care of by special doctors
> who can help mommy's tummy get better with special medicine that gets rid of
> infection. I was gone only 3 days. I just don't get it.
> Over Labor day weekend, I visited with my parents and when my son threw a
> fit in the middle of a Wal Mart store, he had to be restrained until he was
> calmed down... I actually asked the door greeter to call in a manager and
> security guard to help me.... Are there resources out there that I may be
> missing? Is this something that's just behavioral or was this something
> resembling sort of like a seizure?
> I'm coming out of lurk at the risk of being massively flamed and attacked.
> What I'm actually doing is asking for help, ideas, resources, links and any
> other ideas and advice anyone is willing to offer and share. I feel crappy
> as it is. I really don't need anyone's cruel and judgemental remarks on top
> of it right now. I'm also not looking for anyone to coddle me and say, "oh
> you poor thing!" because I don't belive that I'm in any way burdened. I
> believe I'm being challenged but have reached a bit of an obstacle that I'm
> not sure how to get past.
> Thanks.

Sorry about the diverticulitis episode you had. I have a friend who
had that and was in the hospital, too. It's so painful and awful.

To me, it really sounds like your son was doing so well there for
quite a while, and that he had a set-back because you got sick. (Two
steps forward, one step back?)

Besides the social worker, the meds, the doctor, the safe restraint
techs, the school, and everything else that you mentioned, I don't
know of any other resources for him. I would like to see something for
you, though. The step-dad and your friend seem like a terrific support
system for you. I think you need to have some fun when you feel
better.

Karen

[lm]

On 16 Sep 2004 15:10:49 GMT,
(Bebelestrnge0721) wrote:


>with cutting at one point that now recently came back into the picture. She
>fell right back into some pretty severe behaviors recently , I feel due to her
>babies father deciding he "made a mistake" and abandoned her and the baby for
>another relationship.

So your grand-daughter's father is no longer seeing the baby? Are his
parents still involved?

lm

[Pacobr549]

my son had similar
problems.

You may need to try lots of different meds and different therapists. It took
awile before we found a good fit.

I don't know how old your son is. My son started after his dad died at ll.
He's 16 now and things are much better but he's always going to be a little
different and have to learn to control his temper or suffer the consequences if
he doesn't.

My son also was hospitalized for awhile.

There's no easy fix. People who don't understand will assume you are doing
something wrong and if you just did the right thing,
this would all go away. You may think that. The truth is, you can do
everything you can, and it still won't go away. It's not like an infection
where you take antibiotics and everything is back to normal.

It sounds like you are doing everything you can. There was a time when if he
didn't get better, I would have sent him away (residential treatment) for his
own good, my good and his
sister's good. It didn't come to that but if it comes to that for you, you
to accept its best for everyone and not feel guilty.

And one more thing and this is where you will probably think you are being
judged and abused but I have to say it...



>The
>> reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the
>hospital
>> where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them,

He's not his stepdad. You aren't married. He may love your kid, but he's not
his dad or his stepdad. He's not a replacement for you. I'm not saying there
was anything you could do about it, you can't help being sick and having to
leave him, but you need to understand (and I tried to say this before when you
got ****ed off and filtered me) that just because you love this guy and want to
think he's just as much family to your kid as you are, he's not, not in your
kids eye. Very often parents assume that their kids should feel lovey toward
their love interests because they do. But it doesn't necesarily work that way.
It may just be that part of his anger has something to do with this difference
between him and you as to who this guy is in your life. Before you get
defensive and ****ed off, just think about it.

[Bebelestrnge0721]

Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
From: (Pacobr549)
Date: 9/16/2004 7:43 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <20040916194328.15331.00000623@
>He's not his stepdad.

says who you ?

>You aren't married.

and so ?

> He may love your kid, but he's
>not
>his dad or his stepdad.

I do not believe she called him his dad?
the definition of stepdad : indeed uses the term married in the definition,
why must you be so politically correct when you know there is a large number of
HEALTHY non traditional family units? Must you nit pick someones family
beliefs? A political or religious ceremony does not define the term Family
anymore. A marriage certificate does not make a family.


> He's not a replacement for you. I'm not saying
>there
>was anything you could do about it, you can't help being sick and having to
>leave him, but you need to understand (and I tried to say this before when
>you
>got ****ed off and filtered me) that just because you love this guy and want
>to
>think he's just as much family to your kid as you are, he's not, not in your
>kids eye. Very often parents assume that their kids should feel lovey toward
>their love interests because they do. But it doesn't necesarily work that
>way.
>It may just be that part of his anger has something to do with this
>difference
>between him and you as to who this guy is in your life. Before you get
>defensive and ****ed off, just think about it.


In many cases the "step parent" which IS the term used in these non
traditional households is a more loving more dedicated ,more supportive , and
most definately a healthier parental figure than some biological parents. You
would deny a child the parental love of someone solely because there is no
marriage certificate? How sad is that ? JMHO

I am betting dollars to donuts that slykitten would not have left her son with
the man if there was a poor relationship between them and furthermore you
belittle her judgement as a parent to suggest she would. You also suggest she
further distresses her sons condition by expecting him to be lovey with her
love interest, which I am sure she that has gone to such lengths to support and
help her son would not be carelessly adding fuel to the fires of this childs
anger. I happen to know first hand that when a child has a raging mental health
condition the child snaps out over the slightest of things. Many mental health
conditions include a very narcistic <sp> ?
attitude. You are blaming her for her sons mental illness and I am appalled .I
already know you don't care what I think or feel but then the feeling is mutual
I am sure. Why did you bother to respond at all if you can't get off your
pedastal and stop blaming parents that come here for advice . There is no way
in hell I will ever believe YOU have never made a mistake or fallen off track
emotionally in your life, what is with you ? Not that I care...... Heh :)

[Joelle]

Okay bebel you really are an idiot and I was right to give up on you a long
time ago, but let's get some things straight.

>You are blaming her for her sons mental illness and I am appalled

Yea, that's right. That's why I said this wasn't her fault. She asked if
there was something she was missing. I suggested that maybe her son didn't
feel as close to her lover as she does and would like him to be. Sometimes
parents are so anxious that everyone be one big happy family that they don't
see everything.

She was confused as to why her son would say he was she left him alone when he
had her boyfriend who loved him. I'm suggesting that he's not as close to her
boyfriend as she might think and to him, it felt alone. No way did I say that
was her fault. Boys and mothers are complicated things.

Geesh. You can abuse me all you want and dismiss me and call me mean and
judgmental filter me and all kinds of things, but my guess is, I'm probably
know more what Kitcat is going through than anyone else here. Ironic eh?

>Not that I care...... Heh :)
>

I'll say some prayers for your grandchild tonight. God knows she needs them.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Tiffany]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> From: (Pacobr549)
> Date: 9/16/2004 7:43 PM Eastern Standard Time
> Message-id: <20040916194328.15331.00000623@
> >He's not his stepdad.
>
> says who you ?
>
> >You aren't married.
>
> and so ?
>
> > He may love your kid, but he's
> >not
> >his dad or his stepdad.
>
> I do not believe she called him his dad?
> the definition of stepdad : indeed uses the term married in the
definition,
> why must you be so politically correct when you know there is a large
number of
> HEALTHY non traditional family units? Must you nit pick someones family
> beliefs? A political or religious ceremony does not define the term Family
> anymore. A marriage certificate does not make a family.
>
>
> > He's not a replacement for you. I'm not saying
> >there
> >was anything you could do about it, you can't help being sick and having
to
> >leave him, but you need to understand (and I tried to say this before
when
> >you
> >got ****ed off and filtered me) that just because you love this guy and
want
> >to
> >think he's just as much family to your kid as you are, he's not, not in
your
> >kids eye. Very often parents assume that their kids should feel lovey
toward
> >their love interests because they do. But it doesn't necesarily work that
> >way.
> >It may just be that part of his anger has something to do with this
> >difference
> >between him and you as to who this guy is in your life. Before you get
> >defensive and ****ed off, just think about it.
>
>
> In many cases the "step parent" which IS the term used in these non
> traditional households is a more loving more dedicated ,more supportive ,
and
> most definately a healthier parental figure than some biological parents.
You
> would deny a child the parental love of someone solely because there is no
> marriage certificate? How sad is that ? JMHO
>
> I am betting dollars to donuts that slykitten would not have left her son
with
> the man if there was a poor relationship between them and furthermore you
> belittle her judgement as a parent to suggest she would. You also suggest
she
> further distresses her sons condition by expecting him to be lovey with
her
> love interest, which I am sure she that has gone to such lengths to
support and
> help her son would not be carelessly adding fuel to the fires of this
childs
> anger. I happen to know first hand that when a child has a raging mental
health
> condition the child snaps out over the slightest of things. Many mental
health
> conditions include a very narcistic <sp> ?
> attitude. You are blaming her for her sons mental illness and I am
appalled .I
> already know you don't care what I think or feel but then the feeling is
mutual
> I am sure. Why did you bother to respond at all if you can't get off your
> pedastal and stop blaming parents that come here for advice . There is no
way
> in hell I will ever believe YOU have never made a mistake or fallen off
track
> emotionally in your life, what is with you ? Not that I care...... Heh :)

Hold on there.... . you might want to read her post before replying. This
person did not slam anyone. She suggested that sly might want to consider
that the child is not totally into this step-father. Only Sly can say that
for sure and I am sure she will. Plus where does she say that one should
deny parental love because of the absence of a certificate? I think her
point is to consider the child is not dealing well with this new
step-father. And last but not least, where did she blame Sly for her son's
mental illness?

T

[slykitten]

do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!! he's the
ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15 months old
and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Pacobr549" > wrote in message
...
> my son had similar
> problems.
>
> You may need to try lots of different meds and different therapists. It
took
> awile before we found a good fit.
>
> I don't know how old your son is. My son started after his dad died at
ll.
> He's 16 now and things are much better but he's always going to be a
little
> different and have to learn to control his temper or suffer the
consequences if
> he doesn't.
>
> My son also was hospitalized for awhile.
>
> There's no easy fix. People who don't understand will assume you are
doing
> something wrong and if you just did the right thing,
> this would all go away. You may think that. The truth is, you can do
> everything you can, and it still won't go away. It's not like an
infection
> where you take antibiotics and everything is back to normal.
>
> It sounds like you are doing everything you can. There was a time when if
he
> didn't get better, I would have sent him away (residential treatment) for
his
> own good, my good and his
> sister's good. It didn't come to that but if it comes to that for you,
you
> to accept its best for everyone and not feel guilty.
>
> And one more thing and this is where you will probably think you are being
> judged and abused but I have to say it...
>
>
>
> >The
> >> reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the
> >hospital
> >> where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them,
>
> He's not his stepdad. You aren't married. He may love your kid, but he's
not
> his dad or his stepdad. He's not a replacement for you. I'm not saying
there
> was anything you could do about it, you can't help being sick and having
to
> leave him, but you need to understand (and I tried to say this before when
you
> got ****ed off and filtered me) that just because you love this guy and
want to
> think he's just as much family to your kid as you are, he's not, not in
your
> kids eye. Very often parents assume that their kids should feel lovey
toward
> their love interests because they do. But it doesn't necesarily work that
way.
> It may just be that part of his anger has something to do with this
difference
> between him and you as to who this guy is in your life. Before you get
> defensive and ****ed off, just think about it.
>

[Joelle]

>Yes, he IS STEP DAD.

Sigh. Okay. I tried. That's all you heard. That's all you want to focus on.
Good luck. Put me back in your filter. I can offer you no help. I don't
think anyone else can either.

I'm very sorry.

For your son.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[slykitten]

I'll clarify a little.....
My significant other and I have been together for a little over 7 years now.
my son's 8 years and 5 months old. (I toss in the months of age because when
my sig other and I met, my son and I were running for our lives. my sig
other and I were friends for a long time so he knew what was going on and he
begged me to leave the marriage before one of us got killed. my sister
begged me to leave my ex and so did my parents. I finally left after my
grandma had a talk with me about what the abuse was doing to me and my son.
So I left. I had to do it in a hurry while my ex was at work and while he
was convinced that I was going on a small vacation. my sig other supported
me emotionally because he knew that this was a very tough thing I was doing.
the fact that we ended up together was actually something of an accident.
I'm thankful for that accident.... we didn't know we'd fallen in love
until.... well, until it was the 3 of us. it had always been the 3of us. we
were never a couple, always a trio. I don't believe in marriage, I believe
in a yearly handfast. Political correctness is for.... well, nevermind. As
far as I'm concerned, the ring and the certificate mean nothing other than
ownership. it's just proof of ownership. That's all. we don't own each
other. we're free to leave. I love him and he loves us. I've never had to
try and convince myself of that. I've never had to second guess any "vows of
marriage" My promise is that so long as our paths are together, so shall we
be together but should our paths part, so shall we part and be free. We give
to each other something very precious. When I got sick, I got really scared.
I was more scared this past weekend than I've ever been in my entire life.
I'd never known that any person could suffer so much from an infection. I
was so afraid that I wasn't going home. How would they go on without me? How
would my son cope? What about my girls? I've found myself increasingly
saddened when I think about why my son acts out, the kind of fear he must've
felt.... I"m feeling a lot of stuff right now. I don't mean to bite at
anyone.... I'm also not gonna filter anyone. It's not worth it I've decided.
Like I said, I'm feeling a lot of stuff right now so I'll tell ya up front,
I'm sensitive right now. So I've read through this thread and will answer as
I can because I've gotten lots of good stuff here. Thanks!

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> > From: (Pacobr549)
> > Date: 9/16/2004 7:43 PM Eastern Standard Time
> > Message-id: <20040916194328.15331.00000623@
> > >He's not his stepdad.
> >
> > says who you ?
> >
> > >You aren't married.
> >
> > and so ?
> >
> > > He may love your kid, but he's
> > >not
> > >his dad or his stepdad.
> >
> > I do not believe she called him his dad?
> > the definition of stepdad : indeed uses the term married in the
> definition,
> > why must you be so politically correct when you know there is a large
> number of
> > HEALTHY non traditional family units? Must you nit pick someones family
> > beliefs? A political or religious ceremony does not define the term
Family
> > anymore. A marriage certificate does not make a family.
> >
> >
> > > He's not a replacement for you. I'm not saying
> > >there
> > >was anything you could do about it, you can't help being sick and
having
> to
> > >leave him, but you need to understand (and I tried to say this before
> when
> > >you
> > >got ****ed off and filtered me) that just because you love this guy and
> want
> > >to
> > >think he's just as much family to your kid as you are, he's not, not in
> your
> > >kids eye. Very often parents assume that their kids should feel lovey
> toward
> > >their love interests because they do. But it doesn't necesarily work
that
> > >way.
> > >It may just be that part of his anger has something to do with this
> > >difference
> > >between him and you as to who this guy is in your life. Before you get
> > >defensive and ****ed off, just think about it.
> >
> >
> > In many cases the "step parent" which IS the term used in these non
> > traditional households is a more loving more dedicated ,more supportive
,
> and
> > most definately a healthier parental figure than some biological
parents.
> You
> > would deny a child the parental love of someone solely because there is
no
> > marriage certificate? How sad is that ? JMHO
> >
> > I am betting dollars to donuts that slykitten would not have left her
son
> with
> > the man if there was a poor relationship between them and furthermore
you
> > belittle her judgement as a parent to suggest she would. You also
suggest
> she
> > further distresses her sons condition by expecting him to be lovey with
> her
> > love interest, which I am sure she that has gone to such lengths to
> support and
> > help her son would not be carelessly adding fuel to the fires of this
> childs
> > anger. I happen to know first hand that when a child has a raging mental
> health
> > condition the child snaps out over the slightest of things. Many mental
> health
> > conditions include a very narcistic <sp> ?
> > attitude. You are blaming her for her sons mental illness and I am
> appalled .I
> > already know you don't care what I think or feel but then the feeling is
> mutual
> > I am sure. Why did you bother to respond at all if you can't get off
your
> > pedastal and stop blaming parents that come here for advice . There is
no
> way
> > in hell I will ever believe YOU have never made a mistake or fallen off
> track
> > emotionally in your life, what is with you ? Not that I care...... Heh
:)
>
> Hold on there.... . you might want to read her post before replying. This
> person did not slam anyone. She suggested that sly might want to consider
> that the child is not totally into this step-father. Only Sly can say that
> for sure and I am sure she will. Plus where does she say that one should
> deny parental love because of the absence of a certificate? I think her
> point is to consider the child is not dealing well with this new
> step-father. And last but not least, where did she blame Sly for her son's
> mental illness?
>
> T
>
>

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: (Joelle)
>Date: 9/16/2004 9:22 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Okay bebel you really are an idiot and I was right to give up on you a long
>time ago, but let's get some things straight.

No Joelle I am not an idiot, get that straight.

>>You are blaming her for her sons mental illness and I am appalled
>Yea, that's right. That's why I said this wasn't her fault. She asked if
>there was something she was missing. I suggested that maybe her son didn't
>feel as close to her lover as she does and would like him to be. Sometimes
>parents are so anxious that everyone be one big happy family that they don't
>see everything.
>
>She was confused as to why her son would say he was she left him alone when
>he
>had her boyfriend who loved him. I'm suggesting that he's not as close to
>her
>boyfriend as she might think and to him, it felt alone. No way did I say
>that
>was her fault. Boys and mothers are complicated things.

O.K. I see where you said it was not her fault, I missed that somehow, I let
the way you belittled her choices and used her relationship as a possible
scapegoat for her sons behavior bringing me to feel you blamed her for his
illness , sorry and I know when to admit I am wrong.
I also have experienced some of the same behaviors she described with my
daughter, she would go to school and tell her teachers there was no food in the
house when the reality was there was not what she preferred to eat she had
wiped her favorites out already.She has also used the left home alone , and she
hates living with me, as well the doctors themselves told me it was part of her
illness , that she truly believes these things or is looking for the attention
she needed to take attention off of her behaviors she was being called on. I
was also told that people with mental illnesses are clever and manipulative as
well. I going on what I know saw it as you blamed her lifestyle as a trigger to
his behaviors, thus the blaming her for his illness. Your first post where you
state she had you filtered did not irk my craw, it was the second where you had
to take it that step where I think you know is judgemental and damn you just
can't help yourself can you?

>Geesh. You can abuse me all you want and dismiss me and call me mean and
>judgmental filter me and all kinds of things, but my guess is, I'm probably
>know more what Kitcat is going through than anyone else here. Ironic eh?

No not ironic, I am sorry to hear that your family has been touched by mental
illness, it is something only people that have been there and are living with
it can understand.
I do as well.

>>Not that I care...... Heh :)

>I'll say some prayers for your grandchild tonight. God knows she needs them.

You know Joelle keep your prayers, your god is not the god I know. Nor the god
that blessed our family with this child to love.
the name is Bev get that straight.

>Joelle
>The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>Augustine
>Joelle
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: "Tiffany"
>Date: 9/16/2004 9:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
>> Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>> From: (Pacobr549)
>> Date: 9/16/2004 7:43 PM Eastern Standard Time
>> Message-id: <20040916194328.15331.00000623@
>> >He's not his stepdad.
>>
>> says who you ?
>>
>> >You aren't married.
>>
>> and so ?
>>
>> > He may love your kid, but he's
>> >not
>> >his dad or his stepdad.
>>
>> I do not believe she called him his dad?
>> the definition of stepdad : indeed uses the term married in the
>definition,
>> why must you be so politically correct when you know there is a large
>number of
>> HEALTHY non traditional family units? Must you nit pick someones family
>> beliefs? A political or religious ceremony does not define the term Family
>> anymore. A marriage certificate does not make a family.
>>
>>
>> > He's not a replacement for you. I'm not saying
>> >there
>> >was anything you could do about it, you can't help being sick and having
>to
>> >leave him, but you need to understand (and I tried to say this before
>when
>> >you
>> >got ****ed off and filtered me) that just because you love this guy and
>want
>> >to
>> >think he's just as much family to your kid as you are, he's not, not in
>your
>> >kids eye. Very often parents assume that their kids should feel lovey
>toward
>> >their love interests because they do. But it doesn't necesarily work that
>> >way.
>> >It may just be that part of his anger has something to do with this
>> >difference
>> >between him and you as to who this guy is in your life. Before you get
>> >defensive and ****ed off, just think about it.
>>
>>
>> In many cases the "step parent" which IS the term used in these non
>> traditional households is a more loving more dedicated ,more supportive ,
>and
>> most definately a healthier parental figure than some biological parents.
>You
>> would deny a child the parental love of someone solely because there is no
>> marriage certificate? How sad is that ? JMHO
>>
>> I am betting dollars to donuts that slykitten would not have left her son
>with
>> the man if there was a poor relationship between them and furthermore you
>> belittle her judgement as a parent to suggest she would. You also suggest
>she
>> further distresses her sons condition by expecting him to be lovey with
>her
>> love interest, which I am sure she that has gone to such lengths to
>support and
>> help her son would not be carelessly adding fuel to the fires of this
>childs
>> anger. I happen to know first hand that when a child has a raging mental
>health
>> condition the child snaps out over the slightest of things. Many mental
>health
>> conditions include a very narcistic <sp> ?
>> attitude. You are blaming her for her sons mental illness and I am
>appalled .I
>> already know you don't care what I think or feel but then the feeling is
>mutual
>> I am sure. Why did you bother to respond at all if you can't get off your
>> pedastal and stop blaming parents that come here for advice . There is no
>way
>> in hell I will ever believe YOU have never made a mistake or fallen off
>track
>> emotionally in your life, what is with you ? Not that I care...... Heh :)


>Hold on there.... . you might want to read her post before replying.

I did read her post, the one she typed second, where in her Joelle kind of way
.....

> This
>person did not slam anyone.

She did too twist the knife :)

>She suggested that sly might want to consider
>that the child is not totally into this step-father. Only Sly can say that
>for sure and I am sure she will. Plus where does she say that one should
>deny parental love because of the absence of a certificate? I think her
>point is to consider the child is not dealing well with this new
>step-father. And last but not least, where did she blame Sly for her son's
>mental illness?
>
>T
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[slykitten]

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Purchgdss" > wrote in message
...
> >1) he's under the care of a psychiatrist for his meds
> >2) he's on meds (a cocktail really)
> >3) he's been in the hospital for certain behaviors that are concerning
that
> >needed immediate attention and got immediate attention.
> >4) we have a social worker
> >5) we have a therapist (in-home psychologist who is helping me with both
> >parenting, coping and behavior modification skills for this kiddo)
> >6) I've learned safe restraint techniques for when he becomes violent
(which
> >thankfully isn't all that often anymore)
> >7) he's on a behavior mod plan in school
> >8) he has a great IEP
>
> Based on what his diagnosis is and how old he is, would be how to proceed.
> I've had these similar issues and life events with my own son. But from
the
> little you have shared, I suggest researching "Reactive Attachment
Disorder".
>
Never heard of it but it's definately something I'll be looking up and
reading about. I know I've shared "little" but I'm also extending some
feelers out right now to get a little more of an idea about the group. I
still consider myself very new here.

> >
> >So what am I missing? Why does this kid constantly tell people that he
hates
> >living with me? This past weekend I was in the hospital.... very sick. I
> >have diverticulitis which I found out is aparently pretty rare in people
> >under the age of 30.... I'll be 29 on Sunday. My son threw a fit and told
> >some people at his school about how I left him alone with no one around.
The
> >reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the
hospital
> >where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them,
knowing
> >that my friend was with me. He explained to my son on the way to the
> >hospital that mommy is sick and needs to be taken care of by special
doctors
> >who can help mommy's tummy get better with special medicine that gets rid
of
> >infection. I was gone only 3 days. I just don't get it.
> >Over Labor day weekend, I visited with my parents and when my son threw a
> >fit in the middle of a Wal Mart store, he had to be restrained until he
was
> >calmed down... I actually asked the door greeter to call in a manager and
> >security guard to help me.... Are there resources out there that I may be
> >missing? Is this something that's just behavioral or was this something
> >resembling sort of like a seizure?
> >I'm coming out of lurk at the risk of being massively flamed and
attacked.
> >What I'm actually doing is asking for help, ideas, resources, links and
any
> >other ideas and advice anyone is willing to offer and share.
>
> It could be that your hospital stay freaked him out and he reacted by
going
> into "self-preservation" mode. Crazy lying and false accusations are
hallmarks
> of Reactive Attachment Disorder. Check out the behaviors list and if he
meets
> enough of the criteria start exploring the options.

I definately agree that the hospital stay freaked him out. He's never seen
me so sick. I know that he wanted to visit and the visit he had with me on
Saturday was pretty short. I enjoyed hugging him and I was reassuring him
that I was ok and that I'll be better soon. He was clingy but I was in and
out of a fog. I'll be honest, the pains of labor are a welcome memory to the
pains of this nasty little disease. at least I've got 3 great kids to show
for it!

>
> I must say, this mental illness is not a "doom & gloom" thing, they CAN
get
> better. My son is proof.
>
>

No, Mental Illness isn't doom and gloom.... In fact, it's one of the most
common ailments and one of the least understood. I've got a really good
therapist for my son, and a very good psychiatrist. I like to think of it as
a team effort.... the Psychiatrist, the GP, the therapist, the school social
worker, the teachers, the resource center at the dept of social services, my
sig other, my parents.... it does help. I've done stuff for myself to ensure
that I'm able to handle issues properly.... I'm in counseling myself....
I've been through anger management classes (to understand my own
frustrations and anger issues along with my son's anger issues and violent
outbursts) and parenting classes....I've worked with social workers in the
past to give me ideas, resources and help.... I've stopped being afraid of
social services and I've actually embraced their help. I'm not afraid to
ask.
>
> Just my 2 cents.........
> Christine

[slykitten]

T,
Thanks for making this post show through. I set aside my initial reaction
and just read on. I just want to say Thanks to Joelle for at least knowing
my position and knowing what I'm dealing with and knowing it's not easy.

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
> We will just make the post appear.
>
> T
> "Joelle" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I know Slykitten has me filtered but someone should tell her my son had
> similar
> > problems.
> >
> > She may need to try lots of different meds and different therapists. It
> took
> > awile before we found a good fit.
> >
> > I don't know how old her son is. My son started after his dad died at
ll.
> > He's 16 now and things are much better but he's always going to be a
> little
> > different and have to learn to control his temper or suffer the
> consequences if
> > he doesn't.
> >
> > My son also was hospitalized for awhile.
> >
> > Basically tell her I said there's no easy fix. People who don't
> understand
> > will assume she's doing something wrong and if she just did the right
> thing,
> > this would all go away. She may think that. The truth is, you can do
> > everything you can, and it still won't go away. It's not like an
> infection
> > where you take antibiotics and everything is back to normal.
> >
> > It sounds like she's doing everything she can. There was a time when if
> he
> > didn't get better, I would have sent him away for his own good, my good
> and his
> > sister's good. It didn't come to that but if it comes to that for her,
> she has
> > to accept its best for everyone.
> >
> > This is not her fault. **** happens.
> >
> > Joelle
> > The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> > Augustine
> > Joelle
>
>

[Joelle]

>Like I said, I'm feeling a lot of stuff right now so I'll tell ya up front,
>I'm sensitive right now.

Listen, I'm really not trying to bust your butt, and I'm serious about how I'm
probably the one person who knows what you are going through.

You don't have to agree with me politically or argue semantics about
relationships to consider what I said, and open up a discussion with your son
about why he felt abandoned, even though the man you consider a father to him
was with him.

What I mostly want to get through to you is that the field of mental health is
not a science, I'm not sure it's even an art, the past five years has shown me
how much they don't know and are really just guessing. I mean this has no
disrespect to those in the mental health field, but I think sometimes we've put
too much faith in them. And they always seem to blame the mother (thank you
Freud -asshole) so I can see how you would be defensive. Trust me, anything I
said, was not in a blaming way - just trying to help you see things in a
different light.

The fact is, it may not get better right away. I can't even tell you your son
will get better. I can tell you it got better for my son but I still worry
about how he will have a normal independent life.

I understand the wish for some other resource, doctor, therapist, pill,
ANYTHING to make your kid normal. Maybe there is, don't stop looking. But
maybe there isn't. Other people looking in will blame you. You have to just
tell yourself they don't know what you know but try not to get defensive
because it makes you crazy, makes you look crazy and makes you blind and deaf.

Really I'm not your enemy.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: "slykitten"
>Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!! he's the
>ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15 months old
>and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
>
>--
No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%. My
daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the youngest
she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago probably, but we
were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$# it, means
nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us. Our vows
were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it doesn't matter
if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
Bev

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: (Joelle)
>Date: 9/16/2004 11:11 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
>
>Sigh. Okay. I tried. That's all you heard. That's all you want to focus on.
>

thats exactly why you put it out there slick LOL!

>I'm very sorry.
>
>For your son.

there it is the Joellism ! She always has some holier than thou, I feel so so
sorry for your son/daughter/grandchild/ let us pray !
Statement roflmfao !!!!!!! Who the hell is your therapist girl? Not a keeper
...........

>Joelle
>The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>Augustine
>Joelle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Cele]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:11:46 GMT, "Betsy" > wrote:


>You don't say what his diagnosis is, or why he's on meds. Certain
>medications can cause such outbursts, as well as these same outbursts being
>part of the condition for which he is being treated. For example, I know a
>child who has ADHD, and at the drop of a hat, he'll start crying, or
>suddenly scream at his mother, "I HATE YOU!" It's an unfortunate part of
>the ADHD.

Gotta tell you, that's not ADHD. ADHD is about attention and lack
thereof. Whatever else emerges, can be fallout from mismanagement of
ADHD, can be fallout from the stress of dealing with ADHD, can be
because the child isn't really ADHD and has been misdiagnosed, but in
and of itself, that's not ADHD.

ADHD is about attention and activity level, full stop.

The other stuff is kind of extra embellishment, which may or may not
happen, depending on a whole host of exciting life circumstances.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I had a flash of accuracy and it grabbed me
and put me in a lockhold until I made this post......


Cele

[Cele]

On 17 Sep 2004 01:22:15 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>Geesh. You can abuse me all you want and dismiss me and call me mean and
>judgmental filter me and all kinds of things, but my guess is, I'm probably
>know more what Kitcat is going through than anyone else here. Ironic eh?

Ah, Joelle, you were making so much sense, you're so on top of things,
and your advice is so often bang on.

A few of us here have had teens go berserk due to mental illness.
You're not the only one. What you have to offer is valid in and of
itself. It counts without minimising what others of us have
experienced.

>>Not that I care...... Heh :)
>>
>
>I'll say some prayers for your grandchild tonight. God knows she needs them.

Hey, say a few for us over here, if you're willing. I'll take all the
prayers I can get, any time. Life's hard enough, without turning down
the prayers and good wishes people offer....

Take care.

Cele

[Betsy]

"Cele" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:11:46 GMT, "Betsy" > wrote:
>
>
>>You don't say what his diagnosis is, or why he's on meds. Certain
>>medications can cause such outbursts, as well as these same outbursts
>>being
>>part of the condition for which he is being treated. For example, I know
>>a
>>child who has ADHD, and at the drop of a hat, he'll start crying, or
>>suddenly scream at his mother, "I HATE YOU!" It's an unfortunate part of
>>the ADHD.
>
> Gotta tell you, that's not ADHD. ADHD is about attention and lack
> thereof. Whatever else emerges, can be fallout from mismanagement of
> ADHD, can be fallout from the stress of dealing with ADHD, can be
> because the child isn't really ADHD and has been misdiagnosed, but in
> and of itself, that's not ADHD.
>
> ADHD is about attention and activity level, full stop.
>
> The other stuff is kind of extra embellishment, which may or may not
> happen, depending on a whole host of exciting life circumstances.
>
> Sorry to be pedantic, but I had a flash of accuracy and it grabbed me
> and put me in a lockhold until I made this post......
>
>
> Cele

No Problem Cele. I didn't say her son had ADHD. I said I have seen similar
behaviors in children with ADHD. I would never try to diagnose or
reccommend a disorder to anyone. Just pointing out that her son's behavior
may well be a part of his diagnosis; something to be dealt with in that
manner, rather than a slam from him to her parenting style. That was the
intent of my post.

Betsy

[Joelle]

>It counts without minimising what others of us have
>experienced.

I'm not minimizing anything you've gone through. But what she described about
her son is so close to what my son has gone through....is what I meant. I don't
know what you've gone through with your daughter. You don't know what I've
gone through with my son. Some similarities, but I think I know more about
kit's son than you do. Doesn't diminish anything you've been through.

Remember what I said about getting defensive under pressure? ;-)

>Hey, say a few for us over here, if you're willing. I'll take all the
>prayers I can get, any time. Life's hard enough, without turning down
>the prayers and good wishes people offer....

I'll pray for anyone, whether they turn them down or not :-)

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Cele]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:24:09 GMT, "Betsy" > wrote:

>
>"Cele" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:11:46 GMT, "Betsy" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You don't say what his diagnosis is, or why he's on meds. Certain
>>>medications can cause such outbursts, as well as these same outbursts
>>>being
>>>part of the condition for which he is being treated. For example, I know
>>>a
>>>child who has ADHD, and at the drop of a hat, he'll start crying, or
>>>suddenly scream at his mother, "I HATE YOU!" It's an unfortunate part of
>>>the ADHD.
>>
>> Gotta tell you, that's not ADHD. ADHD is about attention and lack
>> thereof. Whatever else emerges, can be fallout from mismanagement of
>> ADHD, can be fallout from the stress of dealing with ADHD, can be
>> because the child isn't really ADHD and has been misdiagnosed, but in
>> and of itself, that's not ADHD.
>>
>> ADHD is about attention and activity level, full stop.
>>
>> The other stuff is kind of extra embellishment, which may or may not
>> happen, depending on a whole host of exciting life circumstances.
>>
>> Sorry to be pedantic, but I had a flash of accuracy and it grabbed me
>> and put me in a lockhold until I made this post......
>>
>>
>> Cele
>
>No Problem Cele. I didn't say her son had ADHD. I said I have seen similar
>behaviors in children with ADHD. I would never try to diagnose or
>reccommend a disorder to anyone. Just pointing out that her son's behavior
>may well be a part of his diagnosis; something to be dealt with in that
>manner, rather than a slam from him to her parenting style. That was the
>intent of my post.
>
>Betsy

Fair enough, Betsy. I agree with that. I truly wasn't looking to be
all critical. It's just that in my line of work, these days,
practically *everyone* has ADHD, whether they do or not, if you see
what I mean. :-)

Take care.

Cele

[Cele]

On 17 Sep 2004 12:12:09 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>>It counts without minimising what others of us have
>>experienced.
>
>I'm not minimizing anything you've gone through. But what she described about
>her son is so close to what my son has gone through....is what I meant. I don't
>know what you've gone through with your daughter. You don't know what I've
>gone through with my son. Some similarities, but I think I know more about
>kit's son than you do. Doesn't diminish anything you've been through.

That's fine. And it wasn't personal.

Sometimes, you have *such* good advice, and so much to offer, and your
perspective is bang on. I just wished, in this case, you'd talked
about what *you* know without the compare and contrast.

>Remember what I said about getting defensive under pressure? ;-)

I'm not feeling defensive; my kids' experiences aren't what I turn to
for my sense of self worth. :-) It's just that the turn of phrase
seemed to send a message I thought warranted comment. If I
misinterpreted, my apologies. :-)

>>Hey, say a few for us over here, if you're willing. I'll take all the
>>prayers I can get, any time. Life's hard enough, without turning down
>>the prayers and good wishes people offer....
>
>I'll pray for anyone, whether they turn them down or not :-)

Heh. Works for me.

Maybe you and I are caught in a communications warp....

It's just a jump to the left!

Take care.

Cele

[CME]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >From: (Joelle)
> >Date: 9/16/2004 11:11 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >>Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
> >
> >Sigh. Okay. I tried. That's all you heard. That's all you want to focus
on.
> >
>
> thats exactly why you put it out there slick LOL!
>
> >I'm very sorry.
> >
> >For your son.
>
> there it is the Joellism ! She always has some holier than thou, I feel so
so
> sorry for your son/daughter/grandchild/ let us pray !
> Statement roflmfao !!!!!!! Who the hell is your therapist girl? Not a
keeper
> ..........
>
> >Joelle
> >The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> >Augustine
> >Joelle

From someone who is reading this and not experiencing the issues you all are
going through, meaning I'm not defensive and emotional, YOU are the one who
looks bad, not Joelle. You might want to think about that. I'll start
holding my breath... now.

Christine

[CME]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >From: "slykitten"
> >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!! he's
the
> >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15 months
old
> >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
> >
> >--
> No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%. My
> daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
youngest
> she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago probably,
but we
> were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$# it,
means
> nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us. Our
vows
> were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it doesn't
matter
> if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
> Bev

Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose. You see what you
want to see, but I'm telling you, your judgement is clouded by your personal
vendetta against Joelle. But then again, why am I wasting my breath when
I'm supposed to be holding it. Good luck to you in life, I sincerely think
you'll need it.

Christine

[Betsy]

"Cele" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 09:24:09 GMT, "Betsy" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Cele" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:11:46 GMT, "Betsy" > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You don't say what his diagnosis is, or why he's on meds. Certain
>>>>medications can cause such outbursts, as well as these same outbursts
>>>>being
>>>>part of the condition for which he is being treated. For example, I
>>>>know
>>>>a
>>>>child who has ADHD, and at the drop of a hat, he'll start crying, or
>>>>suddenly scream at his mother, "I HATE YOU!" It's an unfortunate part
>>>>of
>>>>the ADHD.
>>>
>>> Gotta tell you, that's not ADHD. ADHD is about attention and lack
>>> thereof. Whatever else emerges, can be fallout from mismanagement of
>>> ADHD, can be fallout from the stress of dealing with ADHD, can be
>>> because the child isn't really ADHD and has been misdiagnosed, but in
>>> and of itself, that's not ADHD.
>>>
>>> ADHD is about attention and activity level, full stop.
>>>
>>> The other stuff is kind of extra embellishment, which may or may not
>>> happen, depending on a whole host of exciting life circumstances.
>>>
>>> Sorry to be pedantic, but I had a flash of accuracy and it grabbed me
>>> and put me in a lockhold until I made this post......
>>>
>>>
>>> Cele
>>
>>No Problem Cele. I didn't say her son had ADHD. I said I have seen
>>similar
>>behaviors in children with ADHD. I would never try to diagnose or
>>reccommend a disorder to anyone. Just pointing out that her son's
>>behavior
>>may well be a part of his diagnosis; something to be dealt with in that
>>manner, rather than a slam from him to her parenting style. That was the
>>intent of my post.
>>
>>Betsy
>
> Fair enough, Betsy. I agree with that. I truly wasn't looking to be
> all critical. It's just that in my line of work, these days,
> practically *everyone* has ADHD, whether they do or not, if you see
> what I mean. :-)
>
> Take care.
>
> Cele
>

Right. I have truly seen only a handful of children who I would truly
classify as ADHD. I feel that diagnosis is overused in today's society.
Some kids have an attention deficit...it's that they don't get enough
attention. Others truly have the inability to control impulses. It's too
easy to look for a "quick fix" to a problem, and that encourages medicating
people when it is unnecessary; tragic when it's a growing child. I can
truly see your point of view Cele.

Take care yourself.

Betsy

[slykitten]

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Karen O'Mara" > wrote in message
om...
> "slykitten" > wrote in message
>...
> > I'm coming out of lurk-mode for a brief while. Mostly because I'm having
> > some issues with my son.
> > Before I proceed, I'll give a very brief history:
> > 1) he's under the care of a psychiatrist for his meds
> > 2) he's on meds (a cocktail really)
> > 3) he's been in the hospital for certain behaviors that are concerning
that
> > needed immediate attention and got immediate attention.
> > 4) we have a social worker
> > 5) we have a therapist (in-home psychologist who is helping me with both
> > parenting, coping and behavior modification skills for this kiddo)
> > 6) I've learned safe restraint techniques for when he becomes violent
(which
> > thankfully isn't all that often anymore)
> > 7) he's on a behavior mod plan in school
> > 8) he has a great IEP
> >
> > So what am I missing? Why does this kid constantly tell people that he
hates
> > living with me? This past weekend I was in the hospital.... very sick. I
> > have diverticulitis which I found out is aparently pretty rare in people
> > under the age of 30.... I'll be 29 on Sunday. My son threw a fit and
told
> > some people at his school about how I left him alone with no one around.
The
> > reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the
hospital
> > where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them,
knowing
> > that my friend was with me. He explained to my son on the way to the
> > hospital that mommy is sick and needs to be taken care of by special
doctors
> > who can help mommy's tummy get better with special medicine that gets
rid of
> > infection. I was gone only 3 days. I just don't get it.
> > Over Labor day weekend, I visited with my parents and when my son threw
a
> > fit in the middle of a Wal Mart store, he had to be restrained until he
was
> > calmed down... I actually asked the door greeter to call in a manager
and
> > security guard to help me.... Are there resources out there that I may
be
> > missing? Is this something that's just behavioral or was this something
> > resembling sort of like a seizure?
> > I'm coming out of lurk at the risk of being massively flamed and
attacked.
> > What I'm actually doing is asking for help, ideas, resources, links and
any
> > other ideas and advice anyone is willing to offer and share. I feel
crappy
> > as it is. I really don't need anyone's cruel and judgemental remarks on
top
> > of it right now. I'm also not looking for anyone to coddle me and say,
"oh
> > you poor thing!" because I don't belive that I'm in any way burdened. I
> > believe I'm being challenged but have reached a bit of an obstacle that
I'm
> > not sure how to get past.
> > Thanks.
>
> Sorry about the diverticulitis episode you had. I have a friend who
> had that and was in the hospital, too. It's so painful and awful.
>
For me, it's a hereditary thing. my grampa has it and I have 2 aunts with
it. All of them had it diagnosed though after they were at minimum of 43
years old.... grampa was 54.... I'm only 28 and so they're thinking that
something happened in my body.... I'm not sure quite how to explain it.....
but it just happened and I get to fight it off. It sux, it's painful and
it's nasty. I'd rather give birth again.

> To me, it really sounds like your son was doing so well there for
> quite a while, and that he had a set-back because you got sick. (Two
> steps forward, one step back?)
>
I'd agree with that....


> Besides the social worker, the meds, the doctor, the safe restraint
> techs, the school, and everything else that you mentioned, I don't
> know of any other resources for him. I would like to see something for
> you, though. The step-dad and your friend seem like a terrific support
> system for you. I think you need to have some fun when you feel
> better.
>
> Karen

Having fun would be a good thing.... keeping a babysitter around long enough
is a challenge though.... *sigh*

[Tiffany]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:3eG2d.39799$KU5.24081@edtnps89...
>
> "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> > >From: "slykitten"
> > >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
> > >Message-id: >
> > >
> > >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!! he's
> the
> > >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15 months
> old
> > >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
> > >
> > >--
> > No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%. My
> > daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
> youngest
> > she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago probably,
> but we
> > were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$# it,
> means
> > nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us. Our
> vows
> > were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it doesn't
> matter
> > if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
> > Bev
>
> Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose. You see what you
> want to see, but I'm telling you, your judgement is clouded by your
personal
> vendetta against Joelle. But then again, why am I wasting my breath when
> I'm supposed to be holding it. Good luck to you in life, I sincerely
think
> you'll need it.
>
> Christine
>
>

Yeah, let it out.... breath please.

I agree as I tried to bring some awareness to her concerning Joelle's posts.
But, hey, what do we know?

T

[Tiffany]

"slykitten" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> --
> "Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
> You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
> ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
> "Karen O'Mara" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "slykitten" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > I'm coming out of lurk-mode for a brief while. Mostly because I'm
having
> > > some issues with my son.
> > > Before I proceed, I'll give a very brief history:
> > > 1) he's under the care of a psychiatrist for his meds
> > > 2) he's on meds (a cocktail really)
> > > 3) he's been in the hospital for certain behaviors that are concerning
> that
> > > needed immediate attention and got immediate attention.
> > > 4) we have a social worker
> > > 5) we have a therapist (in-home psychologist who is helping me with
both
> > > parenting, coping and behavior modification skills for this kiddo)
> > > 6) I've learned safe restraint techniques for when he becomes violent
> (which
> > > thankfully isn't all that often anymore)
> > > 7) he's on a behavior mod plan in school
> > > 8) he has a great IEP
> > >
> > > So what am I missing? Why does this kid constantly tell people that he
> hates
> > > living with me? This past weekend I was in the hospital.... very sick.
I
> > > have diverticulitis which I found out is aparently pretty rare in
people
> > > under the age of 30.... I'll be 29 on Sunday. My son threw a fit and
> told
> > > some people at his school about how I left him alone with no one
around.
> The
> > > reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the
> hospital
> > > where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them,
> knowing
> > > that my friend was with me. He explained to my son on the way to the
> > > hospital that mommy is sick and needs to be taken care of by special
> doctors
> > > who can help mommy's tummy get better with special medicine that gets
> rid of
> > > infection. I was gone only 3 days. I just don't get it.
> > > Over Labor day weekend, I visited with my parents and when my son
threw
> a
> > > fit in the middle of a Wal Mart store, he had to be restrained until
he
> was
> > > calmed down... I actually asked the door greeter to call in a manager
> and
> > > security guard to help me.... Are there resources out there that I may
> be
> > > missing? Is this something that's just behavioral or was this
something
> > > resembling sort of like a seizure?
> > > I'm coming out of lurk at the risk of being massively flamed and
> attacked.
> > > What I'm actually doing is asking for help, ideas, resources, links
and
> any
> > > other ideas and advice anyone is willing to offer and share. I feel
> crappy
> > > as it is. I really don't need anyone's cruel and judgemental remarks
on
> top
> > > of it right now. I'm also not looking for anyone to coddle me and say,
> "oh
> > > you poor thing!" because I don't belive that I'm in any way burdened.
I
> > > believe I'm being challenged but have reached a bit of an obstacle
that
> I'm
> > > not sure how to get past.
> > > Thanks.
> >
> > Sorry about the diverticulitis episode you had. I have a friend who
> > had that and was in the hospital, too. It's so painful and awful.
> >
> For me, it's a hereditary thing. my grampa has it and I have 2 aunts with
> it. All of them had it diagnosed though after they were at minimum of 43
> years old.... grampa was 54.... I'm only 28 and so they're thinking that
> something happened in my body.... I'm not sure quite how to explain
it.....
> but it just happened and I get to fight it off. It sux, it's painful and
> it's nasty. I'd rather give birth again.
>
> > To me, it really sounds like your son was doing so well there for
> > quite a while, and that he had a set-back because you got sick. (Two
> > steps forward, one step back?)
> >
> I'd agree with that....
>
>
> > Besides the social worker, the meds, the doctor, the safe restraint
> > techs, the school, and everything else that you mentioned, I don't
> > know of any other resources for him. I would like to see something for
> > you, though. The step-dad and your friend seem like a terrific support
> > system for you. I think you need to have some fun when you feel
> > better.
> >
> > Karen
>
> Having fun would be a good thing.... keeping a babysitter around long
enough
> is a challenge though.... *sigh*
>
>

You know, I did want to add that as trying as things might be right now, I
noticed at one point that you mentioned that your son is doing better over
all, that your sickness just seemed to put a damper on that. That is
perfectly normal, it scared the **** out of him probably. So I think the
steps you have been taking are helping and may be all you can do at this
point.

Good luck.

T

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: "Tiffany"
>Date: 9/17/2004 4:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"CME" > wrote in message
>news:3eG2d.39799$KU5.24081@edtnps89...
>>
>> "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>> > >From: "slykitten"
>> > >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
>> > >Message-id: >
>> > >
>> > >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!! he's
>> the
>> > >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15 months
>> old
>> > >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
>> > >
>> > >--
>> > No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%. My
>> > daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
>> youngest
>> > she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago probably,
>> but we
>> > were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$# it,
>> means
>> > nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us. Our
>> vows
>> > were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it doesn't
>> matter
>> > if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
>> > Bev

-------
>> Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose.

Well, lets see.....hmmmm......medication,
I have been on and off antidepressant medication for years for clinical
depression. Yes I am on medication ATM I Have been since my sig. other passed
away , Trauma triggers my depression. I have not missed a dose though ????? Not
a very nice thing for you to say . You know for some people medication keeps
them alive, or gives them quality of life.

> You see what you
>> want to see, but I'm telling you, your judgement is clouded by your
>personal
>> vendetta against Joelle.

Well which is it ? I missed a dose or my personal vendetta against Ms. Bitch ?


> But then again, why am I wasting my breath when
>> I'm supposed to be holding it.

because theres some people that just can not help themselves :)

>Good luck to you in life, I sincerely
>think
>> you'll need it.
>>
>> Christine
>>

Oh heck Christine, I have been around a long time, maybe some of it has been
luck but I promise you I am a survivor and luck has nothing to do with it .


>Yeah, let it out.... breath please.

Breathe Honey :)

>I agree as I tried to bring some awareness to her concerning Joelle's posts.
>But, hey, what do we know?
>
>T
>
>

Joelle irks my craw yes she does, Yes she is da bitch, she knows it. Probably
takes pride in that. I have known many and still do, she does not need
protection, she holds her own very well, Tiff there are leaders and followers
sweety, you better pick up the pace, you are following a little too slowly dear
:) I am aware, Joelle bites.
I listened to her tell me her thoughts a while ago , I did use some of her
advice..... the attacks and accusations that disrespected me , my daughter, my
grandchild, and my Partner are indeed part of why I defended Sly as I will
defend anyone she tries to treat with disrespect.You get what you give ain't
that right?

[Karen O'Mara]

(Joelle) wrote in message >...
> I'll say some prayers for your grandchild tonight. God knows she needs them.

well that's a prayer she could do without.

Karen

[Tiffany]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >From: "Tiffany"
> >Date: 9/17/2004 4:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"CME" > wrote in message
> >news:3eG2d.39799$KU5.24081@edtnps89...
> >>
> >> "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >> > >From: "slykitten"
> >> > >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >> > >Message-id: >
> >> > >
> >> > >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!!
he's
> >> the
> >> > >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15
months
> >> old
> >> > >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
> >> > >
> >> > >--
> >> > No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%.
My
> >> > daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
> >> youngest
> >> > she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago
probably,
> >> but we
> >> > were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$#
it,
> >> means
> >> > nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us.
Our
> >> vows
> >> > were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it
doesn't
> >> matter
> >> > if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
> >> > Bev
>
> -------
> >> Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose.
>
> Well, lets see.....hmmmm......medication,
> I have been on and off antidepressant medication for years for clinical
> depression. Yes I am on medication ATM I Have been since my sig. other
passed
> away , Trauma triggers my depression. I have not missed a dose though
????? Not
> a very nice thing for you to say . You know for some people medication
keeps
> them alive, or gives them quality of life.
>
> > You see what you
> >> want to see, but I'm telling you, your judgement is clouded by your
> >personal
> >> vendetta against Joelle.
>
> Well which is it ? I missed a dose or my personal vendetta against Ms.
Bitch ?
>
>
> > But then again, why am I wasting my breath when
> >> I'm supposed to be holding it.
>
> because theres some people that just can not help themselves :)
>
> >Good luck to you in life, I sincerely
> >think
> >> you'll need it.
> >>
> >> Christine
> >>
>
> Oh heck Christine, I have been around a long time, maybe some of it has
been
> luck but I promise you I am a survivor and luck has nothing to do with it
..
>
>
> >Yeah, let it out.... breath please.
>
> Breathe Honey :)
>
> >I agree as I tried to bring some awareness to her concerning Joelle's
posts.
> >But, hey, what do we know?
> >
> >T
> >
> >
>
> Joelle irks my craw yes she does, Yes she is da bitch, she knows it.
Probably
> takes pride in that. I have known many and still do, she does not need
> protection, she holds her own very well, Tiff there are leaders and
followers
> sweety, you better pick up the pace, you are following a little too slowly
dear
> :) I am aware, Joelle bites.

If you are a leader, what are you leading, sweety? You aren't aware of much
as I see it, you can't even read.


> I listened to her tell me her thoughts a while ago , I did use some of her
> advice..... the attacks and accusations that disrespected me , my
daughter, my
> grandchild, and my Partner are indeed part of why I defended Sly as I will
> defend anyone she tries to treat with disrespect.You get what you give
ain't
> that right?

So you feel the need to defend someone but when I speak up about your
manipulation of words concerning other people's post, I am slow? Yes, you do
get what you give, ISN'T that right? Yes, I have plenty of good in my life,
what is your point?

BTW, your reply was to my post but had comments to another's reply.

Tiff

[Tiffany]

No Problem.

T
"slykitten" > wrote in message
...
> T,
> Thanks for making this post show through. I set aside my initial reaction
> and just read on. I just want to say Thanks to Joelle for at least knowing
> my position and knowing what I'm dealing with and knowing it's not easy.
>
> --

[CME]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >From: "Tiffany"
> >Date: 9/17/2004 4:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"CME" > wrote in message
> >news:3eG2d.39799$KU5.24081@edtnps89...
> >>
> >> "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >> > >From: "slykitten"
> >> > >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >> > >Message-id: >
> >> > >
> >> > >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!!
he's
> >> the
> >> > >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15
months
> >> old
> >> > >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
> >> > >
> >> > >--
> >> > No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%.
My
> >> > daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
> >> youngest
> >> > she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago
probably,
> >> but we
> >> > were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$#
it,
> >> means
> >> > nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us.
Our
> >> vows
> >> > were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it
doesn't
> >> matter
> >> > if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
> >> > Bev
>
> -------
> >> Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose.
>
> Well, lets see.....hmmmm......medication,
> I have been on and off antidepressant medication for years for clinical
> depression. Yes I am on medication ATM I Have been since my sig. other
passed
> away , Trauma triggers my depression. I have not missed a dose though
????? Not
> a very nice thing for you to say . You know for some people medication
keeps
> them alive, or gives them quality of life.
>

Yep and I've used them myself. ;)

> > You see what you
> >> want to see, but I'm telling you, your judgement is clouded by your
> >personal
> >> vendetta against Joelle.
>
> Well which is it ? I missed a dose or my personal vendetta against Ms.
Bitch ?
>
>
> > But then again, why am I wasting my breath when
> >> I'm supposed to be holding it.
>
> because theres some people that just can not help themselves :)
>
> >Good luck to you in life, I sincerely
> >think
> >> you'll need it.
> >>
> >> Christine
> >>
>
> Oh heck Christine, I have been around a long time, maybe some of it has
been
> luck but I promise you I am a survivor and luck has nothing to do with it
..
>

Whoopdy ****in doo. Oh yay you're a survivor, do you think that entitles
you to see something that isn't there? We've all been through ****, it's
called life and I don't know a single person that hasn't had bad things
happen to them so quit flaunting that like it means something.

> >Yeah, let it out.... breath please.
>
> Breathe Honey :)
>
> >I agree as I tried to bring some awareness to her concerning Joelle's
posts.
> >But, hey, what do we know?
> >
> >T
> >
> >
>
> Joelle irks my craw yes she does, Yes she is da bitch, she knows it.
Probably
> takes pride in that. I have known many and still do, she does not need
> protection, she holds her own very well, Tiff there are leaders and
followers
> sweety, you better pick up the pace, you are following a little too slowly
dear
> :) I am aware, Joelle bites.
> I listened to her tell me her thoughts a while ago , I did use some of her
> advice..... the attacks and accusations that disrespected me , my
daughter, my
> grandchild, and my Partner are indeed part of why I defended Sly as I will
> defend anyone she tries to treat with disrespect.You get what you give
ain't
> that right?

Problem is you see nearly every word she posts as an attack and THAT is what
you need to re-evaluate.

Christine

[Joelle]

>While you're at it Joelle could you say one for me and my children? Having
>someone else think about us never hurts. ;)

Hell. I'll pray for everyone here tonight. Even the arrogant hypocrites that
in the name of charity I shan't name...

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: "CME"
>Date: 9/17/2004 6:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <0yJ2d.20303$yW6.5300@clgrps12>
>
>
>"Karen O'Mara" > wrote in message
om...
>> (Joelle) wrote in message
>...
>> > I'll say some prayers for your grandchild tonight. God knows she needs
>them.
>>
>> well that's a prayer she could do without.
>>
>> Karen

I see you see through her cloak and spot the dagger ;) Thanks Karen


>Joelle can pray for anyone she likes and frankly, I don't see how a prayer
>for a small child is something that anyone can do without.
>
>While you're at it Joelle could you say one for me and my children? Having
>someone else think about us never hurts. ;)
>
>Christine
>
Christine,
The point I am making or trying to make you seem to be missing. Joelle is not
offering me sincere prayers for my grandchild. She is saying my granddaughter
needs her prayers to save my grandchild from me, as if she is so great and
powerful ugh..... She is being sarcastic with that remark ,as she has since I
first posted here. She decided I was 1) a bad mother, 2) a bad grandmother, 3)
an idiot, etc. and solely because she on her high pedestal, chooses to condemn
me for the way I live, and the mistakes I made in the first year of my grieving
the loss of my lifes partner to death. At that same time my youngest daughters
mental illness was triggered also by her grief and loss. I held on to that kid
despite my own short comings Some people are not as strong as others when grief
is involved . we made it through all that and I am grateful I found that
strength for my family. I do not and did not ask for the "poor you" support , I
was honest to who I am and was slammed for the truth . I was slammed for our
own beliefs about our family not seeing Adoption as an option for US . I AM
HUMAN and have made mistakes , bad choices, and have paid that price in life. I
have that forgiveness, and who the hell is she or anyone else to condemn me .
we've crawled our way back through counsiling, therapy , and natural healing,
as I know others have. I do not claim to be any more special than anyone else.
Good therapists save lives and families and mine is a family that fell and
stood back up and healed. I have not destroyed my children or my grandchildren,
and her jabs at how she will pray for us is indeed a malicious and cruel
attack. Follow as you feel you must. I got involved because I saw her do the
same to Sly, it does not take a freekin rocket scientist to see through her .
She is so obvious. Other than that I think she is capable of good advice and if
she could control her personal feelings and judgements and accept that people
have different lifestyles and that does not mean they are ****ing up thier kids
because of that, then maybe she would stop having to pray for all of us sinners
:) You misunderstand me, this is a love hate thing here for me, there is
something about a person that uses spiritual goodness in an evil way that
concerns me .
Bev

[Tiffany]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >From: "CME"
> >Date: 9/17/2004 6:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <0yJ2d.20303$yW6.5300@clgrps12>
> >
> >
> >"Karen O'Mara" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> (Joelle) wrote in message
> >...
> >> > I'll say some prayers for your grandchild tonight. God knows she
needs
> >them.
> >>
> >> well that's a prayer she could do without.
> >>
> >> Karen
>
> I see you see through her cloak and spot the dagger ;) Thanks Karen
>
>
> >Joelle can pray for anyone she likes and frankly, I don't see how a
prayer
> >for a small child is something that anyone can do without.
> >
> >While you're at it Joelle could you say one for me and my children?
Having
> >someone else think about us never hurts. ;)
> >
> >Christine
> >
> Christine,
> The point I am making or trying to make you seem to be missing. Joelle
is not
> offering me sincere prayers for my grandchild. She is saying my
granddaughter
> needs her prayers to save my grandchild from me, as if she is so great
and
> powerful ugh..... She is being sarcastic with that remark ,as she has
since I
> first posted here. She decided I was 1) a bad mother, 2) a bad
grandmother, 3)
> an idiot, etc. and solely because she on her high pedestal, chooses to
condemn
> me for the way I live, and the mistakes I made in the first year of my
grieving
> the loss of my lifes partner to death. At that same time my youngest
daughters
> mental illness was triggered also by her grief and loss. I held on to
that kid
> despite my own short comings Some people are not as strong as others when
grief
> is involved . we made it through all that and I am grateful I found that
> strength for my family. I do not and did not ask for the "poor you"
support , I
> was honest to who I am and was slammed for the truth . I was slammed for
our
> own beliefs about our family not seeing Adoption as an option for US . I
AM
> HUMAN and have made mistakes , bad choices, and have paid that price in
life. I
> have that forgiveness, and who the hell is she or anyone else to condemn
me .
> we've crawled our way back through counsiling, therapy , and natural
healing,
> as I know others have. I do not claim to be any more special than anyone
else.
> Good therapists save lives and families and mine is a family that fell and
> stood back up and healed. I have not destroyed my children or my
grandchildren,
> and her jabs at how she will pray for us is indeed a malicious and cruel
> attack. Follow as you feel you must. I got involved because I saw her do
the
> same to Sly, it does not take a freekin rocket scientist to see through
her .
> She is so obvious. Other than that I think she is capable of good advice
and if
> she could control her personal feelings and judgements and accept that
people
> have different lifestyles and that does not mean they are ****ing up thier
kids
> because of that, then maybe she would stop having to pray for all of us
sinners
> :) You misunderstand me, this is a love hate thing here for me, there is
> something about a person that uses spiritual goodness in an evil way that
> concerns me .
> Bev

You forgot your sexuality.... .you once claimed we had some issues with that
also.

[Bebelestrnge0721]

Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
From: "Tiffany"
Date: 9/17/2004 9:20 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: >
>You forgot your sexuality.... .you once claimed we had some issues with that
>also.

Yes Tiff I did and we hashed that one out didn't we? I misunderstood the
comment you made to me , referring to my partner and I wanting to keep my
grand-daughter as our own. Which was/is the furthest from the truth.

[Cele]

On 17 Sep 2004 14:47:44 -0700, (Karen O'Mara) wrote:

(Joelle) wrote in message >...
>> I'll say some prayers for your grandchild tonight. God knows she needs them.
>
>well that's a prayer she could do without.
>
>Karen

Whoa. There's no need for that. Geez.

Cele

[Cele]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:42:07 GMT, "CME" >
wrote:

>
>"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
>> >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>> >From: "slykitten"
>> >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
>> >Message-id: >
>> >
>> >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!! he's
>the
>> >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15 months
>old
>> >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
>> >
>> >--
>> No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%. My
>> daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
>youngest
>> she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago probably,
>but we
>> were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$# it,
>means
>> nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us. Our
>vows
>> were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it doesn't
>matter
>> if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
>> Bev
>
>Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose.

Oy. Lots of people are on medication. I'm on medication. Tell her to
get stuffed if that's in your heart, but please don't use medication
as an insult, k?

>You see what you
>want to see, but I'm telling you, your judgement is clouded by your personal
>vendetta against Joelle. But then again, why am I wasting my breath when
>I'm supposed to be holding it. Good luck to you in life, I sincerely think
>you'll need it.
>
>Christine

Lotta pain all 'round, I'd say. People lash out when they're hurting.
At least, I do....

Hey Christine, did we get any further on the group meet this summer?
Got any thoughts on the where of it? Paul and I seem to be up for
it.....

Cele

[Cele]

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 19:35:26 GMT, "Betsy" > wrote:

>> Fair enough, Betsy. I agree with that. I truly wasn't looking to be
>> all critical. It's just that in my line of work, these days,
>> practically *everyone* has ADHD, whether they do or not, if you see
>> what I mean. :-)
>>
>> Take care.
>>
>> Cele
>>
>
>Right. I have truly seen only a handful of children who I would truly
>classify as ADHD. I feel that diagnosis is overused in today's society.
>Some kids have an attention deficit...it's that they don't get enough
>attention. Others truly have the inability to control impulses. It's too
>easy to look for a "quick fix" to a problem, and that encourages medicating
>people when it is unnecessary; tragic when it's a growing child. I can
>truly see your point of view Cele.
>
>Take care yourself.
>
>Betsy
>
Yup, that's what I see too. That's in no way to minimise the
difficulties for those who *do* have ADHD, or the difficulties of
those who have the diagnosis but not the syndrome. Those guys
generally have *something*, regardless. Anyway, you take care, too.

So where shall we all meet this summer?

Cele

[Tiffany]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> From: "Tiffany"
> Date: 9/17/2004 9:20 PM Eastern Standard Time
> Message-id: >
> >You forgot your sexuality.... .you once claimed we had some issues with
that
> >also.
>
> Yes Tiff I did and we hashed that one out didn't we? I misunderstood the
> comment you made to me , referring to my partner and I wanting to keep my
> grand-daughter as our own. Which was/is the furthest from the truth.

A lot was hashed out months ago and you brought it back up. Maybe the past
should be in the past. It sucks that your daughter's boyfriend left her but
I can't say it is surprising. If she is patient, she will find he will come
back to be a father. He probably won't come back to her though. It is hard
for her I am sure though so I hope she hangs in there.

T

[Joelle]

>Joelle is not
>offering me sincere prayers for my grandchild. S

I have very sincere prayers for your grandchild.

>She is saying my granddaughter
>needs her prayer

She does.

> to save my grandchild from me,

That's right because I believe you are using her to fill your loss.

Everything else you wrote in this post is crap.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Joelle]

>t sucks that your daughter's boyfriend left her but
>I can't say it is surprising.

Of course it's not surprising. Bebe never wanted to share her grandchild with
her father.

> If she is patient, she will find he will come
>back to be a father.

Although grandma will do everything she can to prevent it.


>He probably won't come back to her though. It is hard
>for her I am sure though so I hope she hangs in there.

She should move away from her mother.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[slykitten]

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "slykitten" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
> > You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
> > ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
> > "Karen O'Mara" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > "slykitten" > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > I'm coming out of lurk-mode for a brief while. Mostly because I'm
> having
> > > > some issues with my son.
> > > > Before I proceed, I'll give a very brief history:
> > > > 1) he's under the care of a psychiatrist for his meds
> > > > 2) he's on meds (a cocktail really)
> > > > 3) he's been in the hospital for certain behaviors that are
concerning
> > that
> > > > needed immediate attention and got immediate attention.
> > > > 4) we have a social worker
> > > > 5) we have a therapist (in-home psychologist who is helping me with
> both
> > > > parenting, coping and behavior modification skills for this kiddo)
> > > > 6) I've learned safe restraint techniques for when he becomes
violent
> > (which
> > > > thankfully isn't all that often anymore)
> > > > 7) he's on a behavior mod plan in school
> > > > 8) he has a great IEP
> > > >
> > > > So what am I missing? Why does this kid constantly tell people that
he
> > hates
> > > > living with me? This past weekend I was in the hospital.... very
sick.
> I
> > > > have diverticulitis which I found out is aparently pretty rare in
> people
> > > > under the age of 30.... I'll be 29 on Sunday. My son threw a fit and
> > told
> > > > some people at his school about how I left him alone with no one
> around.
> > The
> > > > reality is that his step-dad who loves him very much took me to the
> > hospital
> > > > where my friend met me and he took the kids home to care for them,
> > knowing
> > > > that my friend was with me. He explained to my son on the way to the
> > > > hospital that mommy is sick and needs to be taken care of by special
> > doctors
> > > > who can help mommy's tummy get better with special medicine that
gets
> > rid of
> > > > infection. I was gone only 3 days. I just don't get it.
> > > > Over Labor day weekend, I visited with my parents and when my son
> threw
> > a
> > > > fit in the middle of a Wal Mart store, he had to be restrained until
> he
> > was
> > > > calmed down... I actually asked the door greeter to call in a
manager
> > and
> > > > security guard to help me.... Are there resources out there that I
may
> > be
> > > > missing? Is this something that's just behavioral or was this
> something
> > > > resembling sort of like a seizure?
> > > > I'm coming out of lurk at the risk of being massively flamed and
> > attacked.
> > > > What I'm actually doing is asking for help, ideas, resources, links
> and
> > any
> > > > other ideas and advice anyone is willing to offer and share. I feel
> > crappy
> > > > as it is. I really don't need anyone's cruel and judgemental remarks
> on
> > top
> > > > of it right now. I'm also not looking for anyone to coddle me and
say,
> > "oh
> > > > you poor thing!" because I don't belive that I'm in any way
burdened.
> I
> > > > believe I'm being challenged but have reached a bit of an obstacle
> that
> > I'm
> > > > not sure how to get past.
> > > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Sorry about the diverticulitis episode you had. I have a friend who
> > > had that and was in the hospital, too. It's so painful and awful.
> > >
> > For me, it's a hereditary thing. my grampa has it and I have 2 aunts
with
> > it. All of them had it diagnosed though after they were at minimum of 43
> > years old.... grampa was 54.... I'm only 28 and so they're thinking that
> > something happened in my body.... I'm not sure quite how to explain
> it.....
> > but it just happened and I get to fight it off. It sux, it's painful and
> > it's nasty. I'd rather give birth again.
> >
> > > To me, it really sounds like your son was doing so well there for
> > > quite a while, and that he had a set-back because you got sick. (Two
> > > steps forward, one step back?)
> > >
> > I'd agree with that....
> >
> >
> > > Besides the social worker, the meds, the doctor, the safe restraint
> > > techs, the school, and everything else that you mentioned, I don't
> > > know of any other resources for him. I would like to see something for
> > > you, though. The step-dad and your friend seem like a terrific support
> > > system for you. I think you need to have some fun when you feel
> > > better.
> > >
> > > Karen
> >
> > Having fun would be a good thing.... keeping a babysitter around long
> enough
> > is a challenge though.... *sigh*
> >
> >
>
> You know, I did want to add that as trying as things might be right now, I
> noticed at one point that you mentioned that your son is doing better over
> all, that your sickness just seemed to put a damper on that. That is
> perfectly normal, it scared the **** out of him probably. So I think the
> steps you have been taking are helping and may be all you can do at this
> point.
>
> Good luck.
>
> T
>
>
Believe me.... I've talked this over with my parents, my grampa, my sig
other and our therapist and we've all agreed that we believe that it
probably did scare the **** out of him! in fact.... it actually scared me
pretty good too.... I didn't realize just how serious it was until I went
back to my old anatomy books and read up on the digestive system and the
diseases of the digestive system. I got really lucky. I am incredibly
thankful too.

[slykitten]

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Cele" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 19:35:26 GMT, "Betsy" > wrote:
>
> >> Fair enough, Betsy. I agree with that. I truly wasn't looking to be
> >> all critical. It's just that in my line of work, these days,
> >> practically *everyone* has ADHD, whether they do or not, if you see
> >> what I mean. :-)
> >>
> >> Take care.
> >>
> >> Cele
> >>
> >
> >Right. I have truly seen only a handful of children who I would truly
> >classify as ADHD. I feel that diagnosis is overused in today's society.
> >Some kids have an attention deficit...it's that they don't get enough
> >attention. Others truly have the inability to control impulses. It's
too
> >easy to look for a "quick fix" to a problem, and that encourages
medicating
> >people when it is unnecessary; tragic when it's a growing child. I can
> >truly see your point of view Cele.
> >
> >Take care yourself.
> >
> >Betsy
> >
> Yup, that's what I see too. That's in no way to minimise the
> difficulties for those who *do* have ADHD, or the difficulties of
> those who have the diagnosis but not the syndrome. Those guys
> generally have *something*, regardless. Anyway, you take care, too.
>
> So where shall we all meet this summer?
>
> Cele
Right now, we're not too sure what the diagnosis on this kiddo is.... we had
one therapist do an eval that said he had bipolar NOS and ADHD and we had
other therapists (at the hospital) simply say that he has mood disorder....
no one can agree on anything.... One therapist said that it sounded like I
needed to get a neurological consult to rule out possible seizure disorder!
OY! But then.... that's not unreasonable and it's something I tried to do
but my insurance won't cover it.... gotta love insurance companies!

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: (Joelle)
>Date: 9/18/2004 9:28 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>t sucks that your daughter's boyfriend left her but
>>I can't say it is surprising.

>Of course it's not surprising. Bebe never wanted to share her grandchild
>with
>her father.

Joelle, I just do not get it , I really don't, I am not this person you keep
calling me?
I supported both these kids in this, my grand-daughters daddy as much as my own
daughter. you are dead wrong in what you are saying. I sat him down one day and
told him straight out that he may one day end up with custody of his daughter
because of my daughters mental health issues . I asked him if he thought he
could handle that, he said then he thought he could. I said good I needed to
know that.
I do not believe a child should ever be kept from either parent unless the
parent was abusive.

>> If she is patient, she will find he will come
>>back to be a father.


>Although grandma will do everything she can to prevent it.
>

Again Joelle, this is what I am saying about you with me? There is no way I
coulod ever do that, I love my grand-children dearly, they are my GRAND KIDS
and I am very content with that. I am 43 years old, tired, stressed out and
angry about the lack of compassion in the world.
I am not who you say I am.

>>He probably won't come back to her though. It is hard
>>for her I am sure though so I hope she hangs in there.

>She should move away from her mother.

Joelle, I truly hope and pray, that one day within the next few years she can
be dependant enough and mentally healthy enough to move out on her own with her
baby , I am saddened for her that at this point she may have to do this on her
own and I do have concerns that she is able to.
My daughter and I have been through a lot over the past few years, the progress
she has made is awsome, we communicate well and have discussed the one day she
will be out on her own scenario, heh , we both started to cry, we have become
really close, she picked a song by the Pretenders called "I'll stand by you "
and told me she thinks of her and I when she hears it. This is why I know I
have done good with my kids. She does not need to move out , and struggle when
she has a family that loves and supports her , why would you say this if not to
just be mean?
Bev

>Joelle
>The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>Augustine
>Joelle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[slykitten]

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:3eG2d.39799$KU5.24081@edtnps89...
> >
> > "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> > > >From: "slykitten"
> > > >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
> > > >Message-id: >
> > > >
> > > >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!!
he's
> > the
> > > >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15
months
> > old
> > > >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%. My
> > > daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
> > youngest
> > > she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago
probably,
> > but we
> > > were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$#
it,
> > means
> > > nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us.
Our
> > vows
> > > were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it doesn't
> > matter
> > > if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
> > > Bev
> >
> > Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose. You see what
you
> > want to see, but I'm telling you, your judgement is clouded by your
> personal
> > vendetta against Joelle. But then again, why am I wasting my breath
when
> > I'm supposed to be holding it. Good luck to you in life, I sincerely
> think
> > you'll need it.
> >
> > Christine
> >
> >
>
> Yeah, let it out.... breath please.
>
> I agree as I tried to bring some awareness to her concerning Joelle's
posts.
> But, hey, what do we know?
>
> T
>
>
I don't believe I was replying to Joelle because her advice was sound and I
don't believe that she'd bash my beliefs religiously as marriage is a
personal choice, etc.... however, I do believe it was a reply from that
Bebelstrange person because this person has had a history of replying
nastily to me in the past. That's ok though too. I do hope I hadn't lashed
at Joelle and please keep in mind that when I made some of my initial
replies, I was only out of the hospital not more than a day or two and still
feeling the effects of being really sick. I've had the chance to since read
through and I'm amazed really that I'm not alone!

[Tiffany]

"slykitten" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> --


snipped

> >
> > T
> >
> >
> Believe me.... I've talked this over with my parents, my grampa, my sig
> other and our therapist and we've all agreed that we believe that it
> probably did scare the **** out of him! in fact.... it actually scared me
> pretty good too.... I didn't realize just how serious it was until I went
> back to my old anatomy books and read up on the digestive system and the
> diseases of the digestive system. I got really lucky. I am incredibly
> thankful too.
>
>

Yeah, I did a small amount of reading about it to. Eecckkk. Eat your fiber!
:)

T

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: (Joelle)
>Date: 9/18/2004 9:26 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>Joelle is not
>>offering me sincere prayers for my grandchild. S
>

>I have very sincere prayers for your grandchild.

O.K.

>>She is saying my granddaughter
>>needs her prayer

>She does.

O.K.

>> to save my grandchild from me,

>That's right because I believe you are using her to fill your loss.

O.K.............I didn't lose a child, I lost my Dad going on 6 years now, and
my partner and friend , who I had been friends with for 8 years and partners
for 14 years which is coming up on 4 years now. I spent 22 of my 43 years with
her by my side , yeah I miss her big time but there is nothing in this whole
world that will ever fill that space . That void will not fill, not with a new
relationship, not with a friend , not with a child, nor a grand child. I fill
my life with as much joy as possible yes, The baby does give me joy and has
brought a ray of light into our lives but she isn't something to be used to
fill a void, a loss, my loss, Nope.

>Everything else you wrote in this post is crap.

what can I say, sometimes I talk out my ass ? ;)
Bev

>Joelle
>The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>Augustine
>Joelle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Tiffany]

"slykitten" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> --
> "Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
> You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
> ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "CME" > wrote in message
> > news:3eG2d.39799$KU5.24081@edtnps89...
> > >
> > > "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> > > > >From: "slykitten"
> > > > >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
> > > > >Message-id: >
> > > > >
> > > > >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!!
> he's
> > > the
> > > > >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15
> months
> > > old
> > > > >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%.
My
> > > > daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
> > > youngest
> > > > she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago
> probably,
> > > but we
> > > > were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$#
> it,
> > > means
> > > > nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us.
> Our
> > > vows
> > > > were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it
doesn't
> > > matter
> > > > if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
> > > > Bev
> > >
> > > Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose. You see what
> you
> > > want to see, but I'm telling you, your judgement is clouded by your
> > personal
> > > vendetta against Joelle. But then again, why am I wasting my breath
> when
> > > I'm supposed to be holding it. Good luck to you in life, I sincerely
> > think
> > > you'll need it.
> > >
> > > Christine
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, let it out.... breath please.
> >
> > I agree as I tried to bring some awareness to her concerning Joelle's
> posts.
> > But, hey, what do we know?
> >
> > T
> >
> >
> I don't believe I was replying to Joelle because her advice was sound and
I
> don't believe that she'd bash my beliefs religiously as marriage is a
> personal choice, etc.... however, I do believe it was a reply from that
> Bebelstrange person because this person has had a history of replying
> nastily to me in the past. That's ok though too. I do hope I hadn't lashed
> at Joelle and please keep in mind that when I made some of my initial
> replies, I was only out of the hospital not more than a day or two and
still
> feeling the effects of being really sick. I've had the chance to since
read
> through and I'm amazed really that I'm not alone!
>
>

No sweat..... I was referring to bring awareness to someone else....... it
gets crazy, don't worry about it. lol

T

[Joelle]

>Joelle, I just do not get it , I really don't, I am not this person you keep
>calling me?

I remember vividly LOTS of people giving you advice, most of it was how you had
to LET GO of this child and let your daughter and the father be parents, even
if they make mistakes. You refused to listen, came back with vicim stories and
it was really clear that you were using this baby to distract you from your
grief. It wasn't only me that noticed, I just probably was the least nice
about pointing it out.

Now if time has passed and you are ready to let go of that child and let your
DAUGHER be the MOTHER--even if it means taking the baby out in the snow, then
good for you. We all change and grow.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: "Tiffany"
>Date: 9/18/2004 6:56 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
>> Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>> From: "Tiffany"
>> Date: 9/17/2004 9:20 PM Eastern Standard Time
>> Message-id: >
>> >You forgot your sexuality.... .you once claimed we had some issues with
>that
>> >also.
>>
>> Yes Tiff I did and we hashed that one out didn't we? I misunderstood the
>> comment you made to me , referring to my partner and I wanting to keep my
>> grand-daughter as our own. Which was/is the furthest from the truth.
>
>A lot was hashed out months ago and you brought it back up. Maybe the past
>should be in the past. It sucks that your daughter's boyfriend left her but
>I can't say it is surprising. If she is patient, she will find he will come
>back to be a father. He probably won't come back to her though. It is hard
>for her I am sure though so I hope she hangs in there.
>
>T
>
>

Yes Tiff hashed out some things back there a little ways... mainly I got
friggen ****ed off , or was that ****ed on? :) Anyway yeah it is the same
stuff only cause I won't settle for it. I won't lurk quietly all the time,
sometimes I have something to say you know LOL!
Thanks for the pep talk on the daughter , it has been hard for me to stay
nuetral and not hunt him down and slap his face for him. I know he is just a
kid too, probably what keeps me in line with him, but watching my daughters
pain breaks my heart. In the beginning all she did was cry ....sob and sob...
now.. she is ****ed, flaming woman scorned I think maybe he better look out !
LOL! They don't talk, the other day she brought the baby to school to visit one
of her teachers and there he stood down the hall close enough for the baby to
recognise him and he ignored them.I hope this does not keep up cause I will be
missing a shoe<grin> ! I can't wait for the both of them to grow up . Bev

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: (Joelle)
>Date: 9/18/2004 8:31 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>Joelle, I just do not get it , I really don't, I am not this person you keep
>>calling me?
>

>I remember vividly LOTS of people giving you advice, most of it was how you
>had
>to LET GO of this child and let your daughter and the father be parents, even
>if they make mistakes.

I remember being told to give the baby up for adoption, and that I was wrong to
be helping my daughter raise the baby? Apparently I missed the "reason" eveyone
felt that way.

>You refused to listen, came back with vicim stories

not sure what you mean about Victim stories ?


>and
>it was really clear that you were using this baby to distract you from your
>grief.

Really? I have never felt this , I don't see it now even ? I am a mom with a
teenage daughter with mental health disabilities , she got herself pregnant,
and came to me for help, we discussed what we would do, bottom line SHE did not
want to give the baby up in any way. Good , fine, Mom will help you till you
are out of school and have your feet on the ground . Moms sin "guilt". Moms sin
"fear". Moms sin "fear of loss" yes.I trully believe my daughter would not
survive if I made her give up the baby or have an abortion. I was told my
daughter manipulated me very well, by many a person. I could be indeed guilty
of many things in my grief but use this baby as a distraction? I must be crazy
if that is what I have done.....................

It wasn't only me that noticed, I just probably was the least nice
>about pointing it out.

I do know myself better than anyone, I know I see the baby as a great joy for
us to have been blessed with. I did not get pregnant to fill a void , or loss,
my daughter did, she will tell you she wanted to have a baby because no one
could take it away. News flash I told her "you don't take care of the baby and
yes someone can and will. " If this is what everyone thought I am sorry, If
there is something about my love and concern for my daughter and granddaughter
to get through this safely that is unhealthy, I do not recognise it.

>Now if time has passed and you are ready to let go of that child and let your
>DAUGHER be the MOTHER--even if it means taking the baby out in the snow, then
>good for you. We all change and grow.

argh........O.K. I know... yes ...but make sure you put on her hat, gloves,
scarf, boots, and sun screen, and if her lips turn blue it is time to come in
:) Thanks , I just grew an inch..........................
>Joelle
>The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>Augustine
>Joelle
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Joelle]

>I remember being told to give the baby up for adoption, and that I was wrong
>to
>be helping my daughter raise the baby?

Why don't you go google the whole thread again. Maybe you'll be able to hear
better what people were telling you.

>not sure what you mean about Victim stories ?

You are a victim. Nothing is your fault. You aren't responsbile for anything
bad that's happened to you. Nothing anybody suggests will work because the
whole world is against you. Anybody who doesn't tell you what you want to hear
is abusing you.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Cele]

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:53:40 -0600, "slykitten" >
wrote:

>
>Right now, we're not too sure what the diagnosis on this kiddo is.... we had
>one therapist do an eval that said he had bipolar NOS and ADHD and we had
>other therapists (at the hospital) simply say that he has mood disorder....
>no one can agree on anything.... One therapist said that it sounded like I
>needed to get a neurological consult to rule out possible seizure disorder!
>OY! But then.... that's not unreasonable and it's something I tried to do
>but my insurance won't cover it.... gotta love insurance companies!

Ouch. That's nasty. I just can't imagine how hard the American
healthcare system makes things for you guys. From my little bit of
knowledge, I can tell you that bipolar is one of the mood disorders,
so those two are just one broad and one more specific of the same kind
of problem. And certainly kids, especially boys, who end up having
mood disorders spend time with ADHD as a diagnosis fairly commonly
first.

That neurological consult sure sounds like a good idea. I wish I could
help.

Cele

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: (Joelle)
>Date: 9/18/2004 9:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>>I remember being told to give the baby up for adoption, and that I was wrong
>>to
>>be helping my daughter raise the baby?
>
>Why don't you go google the whole thread again. Maybe you'll be able to hear
>better what people were telling you.

O.K. I find time hard to come by lately, I am better off dropping the defense
and trying to listen harder........

>>not sure what you mean about Victim stories ?
>
>You are a victim. Nothing is your fault. You aren't responsbile for
>anything
>bad that's happened to you. Nothing anybody suggests will work because the
>whole world is against you. Anybody who doesn't tell you what you want to
>hear
>is abusing you.

eeeekkkk !!!!!!! Not me ? :)
seriously..... I do not want to be seen as a "Victim" I made huge mistakes that
caused some of what we are going through. It has taken a lot of hard work for
me to change. I have picked my battles with my daughter and indeed am
responsible for some of this.I was listening, I did step back and look at this
and saw that I needed to back off and when I left the kids to deal with thier
child all hell broke lose. The responsibility became a fight between them and
they are no longer together.
I'm tired, I am worn out, emotionally spiritually and physically falling
apart.What can I do when nothing I do helps anymore?
Bev

>Joelle
>The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>Augustine
>Joelle
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: "slykitten"
>Date: 9/18/2004 7:59 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id:

>I don't believe I was replying to Joelle because her advice was sound and I
>don't believe that she'd bash my beliefs religiously as marriage is a
>personal choice, etc....

>however, I do believe it was a reply from that
>Bebelstrange person because this person has had a history of replying
>nastily to me in the past. That's ok though too.

O.K. now I am confused ? Hello Slykitten, I would be "That Bebelestrnge person"
you are reffering to here........My name is Bev.
I kind of am wondering what you mean by saying I have a history of replying to
you nastily in the past ? Would ya mind refreshing my memory because I think
you are wrong about that????? I got involved in this thread because I felt
Joelle was not respecting you when you called your Sig. other your sons Step
Dad, I know I backed you here in this thread and I do not recall ever
responding to you any other time.
Bev

I do hope I hadn't lashed
>at Joelle and please keep in mind that when I made some of my initial
>replies, I was only out of the hospital not more than a day or two and still
>feeling the effects of being really sick. I've had the chance to since read
>through and I'm amazed really that I'm not alone!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[CME]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >From: "CME"
> >Date: 9/17/2004 6:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: <0yJ2d.20303$yW6.5300@clgrps12>
> >
> >
> >"Karen O'Mara" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> (Joelle) wrote in message
> >...
> >> > I'll say some prayers for your grandchild tonight. God knows she
needs
> >them.
> >>
> >> well that's a prayer she could do without.
> >>
> >> Karen
>
> I see you see through her cloak and spot the dagger ;) Thanks Karen
>
>
> >Joelle can pray for anyone she likes and frankly, I don't see how a
prayer
> >for a small child is something that anyone can do without.
> >
> >While you're at it Joelle could you say one for me and my children?
Having
> >someone else think about us never hurts. ;)
> >
> >Christine
> >
> Christine,
> The point I am making or trying to make you seem to be missing. Joelle
is not
> offering me sincere prayers for my grandchild. She is saying my
granddaughter
> needs her prayers to save my grandchild from me, as if she is so great
and
> powerful ugh..... She is being sarcastic with that remark ,as she has
since I
> first posted here. She decided I was 1) a bad mother, 2) a bad
grandmother, 3)
> an idiot, etc. and solely because she on her high pedestal, chooses to
condemn
> me for the way I live, and the mistakes I made in the first year of my
grieving
> the loss of my lifes partner to death. At that same time my youngest
daughters
> mental illness was triggered also by her grief and loss. I held on to
that kid
> despite my own short comings Some people are not as strong as others when
grief
> is involved . we made it through all that and I am grateful I found that
> strength for my family. I do not and did not ask for the "poor you"
support , I
> was honest to who I am and was slammed for the truth . I was slammed for
our
> own beliefs about our family not seeing Adoption as an option for US . I
AM
> HUMAN and have made mistakes , bad choices, and have paid that price in
life. I
> have that forgiveness, and who the hell is she or anyone else to condemn
me .
> we've crawled our way back through counsiling, therapy , and natural
healing,
> as I know others have. I do not claim to be any more special than anyone
else.
> Good therapists save lives and families and mine is a family that fell and
> stood back up and healed. I have not destroyed my children or my
grandchildren,
> and her jabs at how she will pray for us is indeed a malicious and cruel
> attack. Follow as you feel you must. I got involved because I saw her do
the
> same to Sly, it does not take a freekin rocket scientist to see through
her .
> She is so obvious. Other than that I think she is capable of good advice
and if
> she could control her personal feelings and judgements and accept that
people
> have different lifestyles and that does not mean they are ****ing up thier
kids
> because of that, then maybe she would stop having to pray for all of us
sinners
> :) You misunderstand me, this is a love hate thing here for me, there is
> something about a person that uses spiritual goodness in an evil way that
> concerns me .
> Bev

You still use alot of words for what I STILL see to be a "woe is me"
syndrome.

Christine

[CME]

"Cele" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:42:07 GMT, "CME" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >> >From: "slykitten"
> >> >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >> >Message-id: >
> >> >
> >> >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!!
he's
> >the
> >> >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15
months
> >old
> >> >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%. My
> >> daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
> >youngest
> >> she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago probably,
> >but we
> >> were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$# it,
> >means
> >> nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us. Our
> >vows
> >> were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it doesn't
> >matter
> >> if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
> >> Bev
> >
> >Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose.
>
> Oy. Lots of people are on medication. I'm on medication. Tell her to
> get stuffed if that's in your heart, but please don't use medication
> as an insult, k?
>

No because I seriously think she's either not on the right meds. Perhaps
this is her natural personality but I see her as an "over-reactive drama
queen" with a major case of "I'm a victim" mixed with "the world is against
me" syndrome (not a professional diagnosis mind you but hits the nail on the
head regardless). I've been depressed on and off for a number of years and
this woman has issues medication doesn't seem to be helping. Sure my
comments may be harsh lately, but I really have no tolerance lately for
drama.

> >You see what you
> >want to see, but I'm telling you, your judgement is clouded by your
personal
> >vendetta against Joelle. But then again, why am I wasting my breath when
> >I'm supposed to be holding it. Good luck to you in life, I sincerely
think
> >you'll need it.
> >
> >Christine
>
> Lotta pain all 'round, I'd say. People lash out when they're hurting.
> At least, I do....
>
> Hey Christine, did we get any further on the group meet this summer?
> Got any thoughts on the where of it? Paul and I seem to be up for
> it.....
>
> Cele

Well considering I'm only a car ride away to Vancouver, I don't see an issue
of not being able to make it with enough planning on my part. :)

Christine

[Cele]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 04:18:33 GMT, "CME" >
wrote:

>> >Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose.
>>
>> Oy. Lots of people are on medication. I'm on medication. Tell her to
>> get stuffed if that's in your heart, but please don't use medication
>> as an insult, k?
>>
>
>No because I seriously think she's either not on the right meds. Perhaps
>this is her natural personality but I see her as an "over-reactive drama
>queen" with a major case of "I'm a victim" mixed with "the world is against
>me" syndrome (not a professional diagnosis mind you but hits the nail on the
>head regardless). I've been depressed on and off for a number of years and
>this woman has issues medication doesn't seem to be helping. Sure my
>comments may be harsh lately, but I really have no tolerance lately for
>drama.

Well, I'm not seeing what some others of you are seeing. I'm seeing
someone who's been through a rough time, made some mistakes, stood by
her kids and hurting some. But regardless of anyone's opinion of Bev,
I get uncomfortable when people use the whole meds thing as a way to
put someone down, because I see it as contributing to the whole
societal censure and judgmental attitudes towards any kind of mental
illness.

>> Hey Christine, did we get any further on the group meet this summer?
>> Got any thoughts on the where of it? Paul and I seem to be up for
>> it.....
>>
>> Cele
>
>Well considering I'm only a car ride away to Vancouver, I don't see an issue
>of not being able to make it with enough planning on my part. :)

Works for me! Now that school's back in I'm swamped all the time, but
come summer, I'll have to come see you even if we don't get the group
meet going. But a group meet would be even better.


Cele

[Bebelestrnge0721]

>Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>From: "CME"
>Date: 9/19/2004 12:18 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <tM73d.25351$yW6.7452@clgrps12>

>No because I seriously think she's either not on the right meds. Perhaps
>this is her natural personality but I see her as an "over-reactive drama
>queen" with a major case of "I'm a victim" mixed with "the world is against
>me" syndrome (not a professional diagnosis mind you but hits the nail on the
>head regardless). I've been depressed on and off for a number of years and
>this woman has issues medication doesn't seem to be helping. Sure my
>comments may be harsh lately, but I really have no tolerance lately for
>drama.
>

Christine, Who knows ? I mean, I don't.
I am under a lot of stress right now, I do not expect everyone to understand
what this has been like for my family. I do not see our lifes issues being any
worse than others, I know everyone has there own crosses to bear. I am reaching
out , I am obviously going about it the wrong way for some to understand me. It
does hurt when I have done the best that I can with all I have been handed ( by
my own mistakes or not) I accept that , but I can't give in to it. I learn and
I go on as many of us have. and sometimes it 'IS' O.K. to sing "You and me
against the world" to your children, if you know what I mean. I hope that you
do :) Bev

[CME]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
>>From: "CME"
>>Date: 9/19/2004 12:18 AM Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <tM73d.25351$yW6.7452@clgrps12>
>
>>No because I seriously think she's either not on the right meds. Perhaps
>>this is her natural personality but I see her as an "over-reactive drama
>>queen" with a major case of "I'm a victim" mixed with "the world is
>>against
>>me" syndrome (not a professional diagnosis mind you but hits the nail on
>>the
>>head regardless). I've been depressed on and off for a number of years
>>and
>>this woman has issues medication doesn't seem to be helping. Sure my
>>comments may be harsh lately, but I really have no tolerance lately for
>>drama.
>>
>
> Christine, Who knows ? I mean, I don't.
> I am under a lot of stress right now, I do not expect everyone to
> understand
> what this has been like for my family. I do not see our lifes issues being
> any
> worse than others, I know everyone has there own crosses to bear. I am
> reaching
> out , I am obviously going about it the wrong way for some to understand
> me. It
> does hurt when I have done the best that I can with all I have been handed
> ( by
> my own mistakes or not) I accept that , but I can't give in to it. I
> learn and
> I go on as many of us have. and sometimes it 'IS' O.K. to sing "You and me
> against the world" to your children, if you know what I mean. I hope that
> you
> do :) Bev

Everyone has been under alot of stress at one or more point in their lives,
what you don't seem to get is how you seem to thrive on the drama. I'm of
the belief that the world isn't against us, it's our own choices that
determine how that world unwraps. So instead of looking outside yourself
and playing the victim, which you also seem to revel in, get over yourself
and move on.

Christine

[Purchgdss]

>I'm tired, I am worn out, emotionally spiritually and physically falling
>apart.What can I do when nothing I do helps anymore?
>Bev

Then do nothing. If your daughter is determined to be a mother and the father
is determined to NOT be a father...... there is nothing you can do.

I suggested the adoption route BECAUSE of your daughter's mental illness, your
other daughter's issues, and the chaos already around that you described.....

Adoption may not have been the popular choice, but for an immature, mentally
ill teen, it may have been the best choice.

However, that's not likely to happen now I think <sigh>.

I'm a firm believer in tough love..... it's necessary with some children (my
own included). Doesn't mean they are abandoned and isolated, just means they
assume responsibility for the decisions they make and the parents reject
enabling.

Just my 2 cents.........
Christine

[Cele]

On 19 Sep 2004 12:20:03 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>>What can I do when nothing I do helps anymore?
>
>Keep going.

So true.....

Cele

[Cele]

On 19 Sep 2004 17:47:28 GMT, (Purchgdss) wrote:

>I'm a firm believer in tough love..... it's necessary with some children (my
>own included). Doesn't mean they are abandoned and isolated, just means they
>assume responsibility for the decisions they make and the parents reject
>enabling.
>
>Just my 2 cents.........
>Christine

I agree that tough love can be helpful. I also have learned, though,
that with teens who are genuinely unwell, it's a balancing act
deciding when and how to let them assume responsibility and take
consequences, and when and how to buffer a bit. I've found that the
whole process of helping a teen get healthy and take responsibility
for herself is a very gradual process. Early on, it can be necessary
to pretty much protect them from everything, including themselves. As
they gain competence and capacity, they need to experience increasing
degrees of actual consequences and responsibility. It's not really so
different from raising any child in that sense. It's just that the
degrees of protection vs. exposure need to be tailored to the needs of
the teen who's 'atypical'....and the contexts are different.

I think that, really, is a huge point of parenting. If they all had
the same needs at the same time, they wouldn't need parents; just
institutions. And of course, some children's and youth's needs are
*so* far from the norm, generally only parents know them well enough
to adapt. God help the kid whose parents aren't paying attention. It
seems to me that apathy might possibly be among the worst things a
parent can do to a child. Even many significant mistakes made and
survived and moved on from, can be better than apathy. If nothing
else, a child needs to know its parent(s) care.

Anyway, take care.

Cele

[Karen O'Mara]

"CME" > wrote in message news:<0yJ2d.20303$yW6.5300@clgrps12>...

> Joelle can pray for anyone she likes and frankly, I don't see how a prayer
> for a small child is something that anyone can do without.
>
> While you're at it Joelle could you say one for me and my children? Having
> someone else think about us never hurts. ;)

Facetious prayers aren't sincere. It was tossed in like a rotten egg.

Karen

[CME]

"Karen O'Mara" > wrote in message
om...
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:<0yJ2d.20303$yW6.5300@clgrps12>...
>
>> Joelle can pray for anyone she likes and frankly, I don't see how a
>> prayer
>> for a small child is something that anyone can do without.
>>
>> While you're at it Joelle could you say one for me and my children?
>> Having
>> someone else think about us never hurts. ;)
>
> Facetious prayers aren't sincere. It was tossed in like a rotten egg.
>
> Karen

Well think what you will, but obviously your judgement isn't clouded. ~rolls
eyes~

Christine

[slykitten]

--
"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it.
You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Cele" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 04:18:33 GMT, "CME" >
> wrote:
>
> >> >Are you on medication because I think you missed a dose.
> >>
> >> Oy. Lots of people are on medication. I'm on medication. Tell her to
> >> get stuffed if that's in your heart, but please don't use medication
> >> as an insult, k?

<snip>
To be honest, I have to agree that it's cruel to use meds as a way to deal a
blow. I'm not exactly the first to admit when I've got a problem, especially
a mental health issue.... but to be honest.... especially with myself....
medications have kept me going in the last couple of months..... Especially
considering how high my anxiety level had gotten after my son ended up in
the hospital. I believe that with the right therapy, the right meds and the
right kind of support, a person can actually feel better and in general do
better. The only reason I agreed to put myself on meds is because I had to
realize that I wasn't able to be an effective parent until I felt better.
Our kids learn from us. they also learn their denial patterns from us. I'm
trying to teach my son that it's ok to accept who you are for you because
it's what makes us one of a kind, flaws and strengths and all.... sometimes
our flaws are our biggest strengths and what we believe our biggest
strengths are really the flaws we don't allow ourselves to see. Ahh well,
I've rambled on enough....

[P. Fritz]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:3sh3d.60088$KU5.44143@edtnps89...
>
> "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >>From: "CME"
> >>Date: 9/19/2004 12:18 AM Eastern Standard Time
> >>Message-id: <tM73d.25351$yW6.7452@clgrps12>
> >
> >>No because I seriously think she's either not on the right meds.
Perhaps
> >>this is her natural personality but I see her as an "over-reactive
drama
> >>queen" with a major case of "I'm a victim" mixed with "the world is
> >>against
> >>me" syndrome (not a professional diagnosis mind you but hits the nail
on
> >>the
> >>head regardless). I've been depressed on and off for a number of
years
> >>and
> >>this woman has issues medication doesn't seem to be helping. Sure my
> >>comments may be harsh lately, but I really have no tolerance lately
for
> >>drama.
> >>
> >
> > Christine, Who knows ? I mean, I don't.
> > I am under a lot of stress right now, I do not expect everyone to
> > understand
> > what this has been like for my family. I do not see our lifes issues
being
> > any
> > worse than others, I know everyone has there own crosses to bear. I am
> > reaching
> > out , I am obviously going about it the wrong way for some to
understand
> > me. It
> > does hurt when I have done the best that I can with all I have been
handed
> > ( by
> > my own mistakes or not) I accept that , but I can't give in to it. I
> > learn and
> > I go on as many of us have. and sometimes it 'IS' O.K. to sing "You
and me
> > against the world" to your children, if you know what I mean. I hope
that
> > you
> > do :) Bev
>
> Everyone has been under alot of stress at one or more point in their
lives,
> what you don't seem to get is how you seem to thrive on the drama. I'm
of
> the belief that the world isn't against us, it's our own choices that
> determine how that world unwraps. So instead of looking outside
yourself
> and playing the victim, which you also seem to revel in, get over
yourself
> and move on.

People like her will ALWAYS play the victim.

>
> Christine
>
>

[CME]

"P. Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:3sh3d.60088$KU5.44143@edtnps89...
> >
> > "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> > >>From: "CME"
> > >>Date: 9/19/2004 12:18 AM Eastern Standard Time
> > >>Message-id: <tM73d.25351$yW6.7452@clgrps12>
> > >
> > >>No because I seriously think she's either not on the right meds.
> Perhaps
> > >>this is her natural personality but I see her as an "over-reactive
> drama
> > >>queen" with a major case of "I'm a victim" mixed with "the world is
> > >>against
> > >>me" syndrome (not a professional diagnosis mind you but hits the nail
> on
> > >>the
> > >>head regardless). I've been depressed on and off for a number of
> years
> > >>and
> > >>this woman has issues medication doesn't seem to be helping. Sure my
> > >>comments may be harsh lately, but I really have no tolerance lately
> for
> > >>drama.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Christine, Who knows ? I mean, I don't.
> > > I am under a lot of stress right now, I do not expect everyone to
> > > understand
> > > what this has been like for my family. I do not see our lifes issues
> being
> > > any
> > > worse than others, I know everyone has there own crosses to bear. I
> am
> > > reaching
> > > out , I am obviously going about it the wrong way for some to
> understand
> > > me. It
> > > does hurt when I have done the best that I can with all I have been
> handed
> > > ( by
> > > my own mistakes or not) I accept that , but I can't give in to it. I
> > > learn and
> > > I go on as many of us have. and sometimes it 'IS' O.K. to sing "You
> and me
> > > against the world" to your children, if you know what I mean. I hope
> that
> > > you
> > > do :) Bev
> >
> > Everyone has been under alot of stress at one or more point in their
> lives,
> > what you don't seem to get is how you seem to thrive on the drama. I'm
> of
> > the belief that the world isn't against us, it's our own choices that
> > determine how that world unwraps. So instead of looking outside
> yourself
> > and playing the victim, which you also seem to revel in, get over
> yourself
> > and move on.
>
> People like her will ALWAYS play the victim.
>
> >
> > Christine

It's just a shame to see someone so unconscious of their own awareness.

Christine

[P.Fritz]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:whG3d.29212$t61.22534@clgrps13...
>
> "P. Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "CME" > wrote in message
> > news:3sh3d.60088$KU5.44143@edtnps89...
> > >
> > > "Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > >Subject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> > > >>From: "CME"
> > > >>Date: 9/19/2004 12:18 AM Eastern Standard Time
> > > >>Message-id: <tM73d.25351$yW6.7452@clgrps12>
> > > >
> > > >>No because I seriously think she's either not on the right meds.
> > Perhaps
> > > >>this is her natural personality but I see her as an "over-reactive
> > drama
> > > >>queen" with a major case of "I'm a victim" mixed with "the world is
> > > >>against
> > > >>me" syndrome (not a professional diagnosis mind you but hits the
nail
> > on
> > > >>the
> > > >>head regardless). I've been depressed on and off for a number of
> > years
> > > >>and
> > > >>this woman has issues medication doesn't seem to be helping. Sure
my
> > > >>comments may be harsh lately, but I really have no tolerance lately
> > for
> > > >>drama.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Christine, Who knows ? I mean, I don't.
> > > > I am under a lot of stress right now, I do not expect everyone to
> > > > understand
> > > > what this has been like for my family. I do not see our lifes
issues
> > being
> > > > any
> > > > worse than others, I know everyone has there own crosses to bear. I
> > am
> > > > reaching
> > > > out , I am obviously going about it the wrong way for some to
> > understand
> > > > me. It
> > > > does hurt when I have done the best that I can with all I have been
> > handed
> > > > ( by
> > > > my own mistakes or not) I accept that , but I can't give in to it.
I
> > > > learn and
> > > > I go on as many of us have. and sometimes it 'IS' O.K. to sing "You
> > and me
> > > > against the world" to your children, if you know what I mean. I
hope
> > that
> > > > you
> > > > do :) Bev
> > >
> > > Everyone has been under alot of stress at one or more point in their
> > lives,
> > > what you don't seem to get is how you seem to thrive on the drama.
I'm
> > of
> > > the belief that the world isn't against us, it's our own choices that
> > > determine how that world unwraps. So instead of looking outside
> > yourself
> > > and playing the victim, which you also seem to revel in, get over
> > yourself
> > > and move on.
> >
> > People like her will ALWAYS play the victim.
> >
> > >
> > > Christine
>
> It's just a shame to see someone so unconscious of their own awareness.

Yes, and unfortunately, they typically perpetuate it through there
children.....and in this case, grand children.

>
> Christine
>
>

[denanson]

"Joelle" < wrote in message
>
> Hell. I'll pray for everyone here tonight. Even the arrogant hypocrites
that
> in the name of charity I shan't name...


You called m'dear?

Dennis ;-)

[denanson]

"slykitten" > wrote in message

> Right now, we're not too sure what the diagnosis on this kiddo is.... we
had
> one therapist do an eval that said he had bipolar NOS and ADHD and we had
> other therapists (at the hospital) simply say that he has mood
disorder....
> no one can agree on anything.... One therapist said that it sounded like I
> needed to get a neurological consult to rule out possible seizure
disorder!

Sort of sums up therapy really.
What age is this child?

Dennis

[denanson]

"Joelle" > wrote in message

> >> Hell. I'll pray for everyone here tonight. Even the arrogant
hypocrites
> >that
> >> in the name of charity I shan't name...
> >
>
> >You called m'dear?
> >
>
> Nope. Not you. Actually, knowing how much it would annoy you, I won't
pray
> for you :-)

But whilst your down on your knees :-O

Dennis ;-)

[Joelle]

>> Nope. Not you. Actually, knowing how much it would annoy you, I won't
>pray
>> for you :-)
>
>But whilst your down on your knees :-O

In your dreams.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[Cele]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:28:44 -0600, "slykitten" >
wrote:

><snip>
>To be honest, I have to agree that it's cruel to use meds as a way to deal a
>blow. I'm not exactly the first to admit when I've got a problem, especially
>a mental health issue.... but to be honest.... especially with myself....
>medications have kept me going in the last couple of months..... Especially
>considering how high my anxiety level had gotten after my son ended up in
>the hospital. I believe that with the right therapy, the right meds and the
>right kind of support, a person can actually feel better and in general do
>better. The only reason I agreed to put myself on meds is because I had to
>realize that I wasn't able to be an effective parent until I felt better.
>Our kids learn from us. they also learn their denial patterns from us. I'm
>trying to teach my son that it's ok to accept who you are for you because
>it's what makes us one of a kind, flaws and strengths and all.... sometimes
>our flaws are our biggest strengths and what we believe our biggest
>strengths are really the flaws we don't allow ourselves to see. Ahh well,
>I've rambled on enough....

There are a *lot* of people who are hit with enough life stresses that
their neurochemistry gets realigned. This generation is described as
the highest stressed generation ever, based on quite a number of
different evaluation techniques. It all started with electricity....

Anyway. I applaud you for doing what you need to do to be as healthy
as you can, for both yourself and your kids. I've done the same - we
had a multi year run of truly nasty things happen in this family, and
I too have taken antidepressants. It's like any other medication:
inappropriate if it's not necessary or if it's for a misdiagnosed
condition, and extremely helpful if it's properly applied. People have
a fixation on neurochemistry. People who think nothing of taking
insuliin for faulty pancreatic chemistry, somehow think that taking
antidepressants for faulty neurochemistry is some kind of indication
of a weak or flawed or faulty human being. I know that my daughter,
who has been through severe post traumatic stress disorder, really
took her own meds seriously when she saw that I took my health
seriously as well. So more power to you, and good luck with it all.

Cele

[CME]

"Cele" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:28:44 -0600, "slykitten" >
> wrote:
>
>><snip>
>>To be honest, I have to agree that it's cruel to use meds as a way to deal
>>a
>>blow. I'm not exactly the first to admit when I've got a problem,
>>especially
>>a mental health issue.... but to be honest.... especially with myself....
>>medications have kept me going in the last couple of months.....
>>Especially
>>considering how high my anxiety level had gotten after my son ended up in
>>the hospital. I believe that with the right therapy, the right meds and
>>the
>>right kind of support, a person can actually feel better and in general do
>>better. The only reason I agreed to put myself on meds is because I had to
>>realize that I wasn't able to be an effective parent until I felt better.
>>Our kids learn from us. they also learn their denial patterns from us. I'm
>>trying to teach my son that it's ok to accept who you are for you because
>>it's what makes us one of a kind, flaws and strengths and all....
>>sometimes
>>our flaws are our biggest strengths and what we believe our biggest
>>strengths are really the flaws we don't allow ourselves to see. Ahh well,
>>I've rambled on enough....
>
> There are a *lot* of people who are hit with enough life stresses that
> their neurochemistry gets realigned. This generation is described as
> the highest stressed generation ever, based on quite a number of
> different evaluation techniques. It all started with electricity....
>
> Anyway. I applaud you for doing what you need to do to be as healthy
> as you can, for both yourself and your kids. I've done the same - we
> had a multi year run of truly nasty things happen in this family, and
> I too have taken antidepressants. It's like any other medication:
> inappropriate if it's not necessary or if it's for a misdiagnosed
> condition, and extremely helpful if it's properly applied. People have
> a fixation on neurochemistry. People who think nothing of taking
> insuliin for faulty pancreatic chemistry, somehow think that taking
> antidepressants for faulty neurochemistry is some kind of indication
> of a weak or flawed or faulty human being. I know that my daughter,
> who has been through severe post traumatic stress disorder, really
> took her own meds seriously when she saw that I took my health
> seriously as well. So more power to you, and good luck with it all.
>
> Cele

Yeah medication can be just the thing needed to pull yourself out of a
downward cycle. Been there done that but I do admit it took me nearly
hitting rock bottom to finally fill the prescription. Whoa it was a rough
year, sooo glad it's over.

Christine

[denanson]

"Joelle" > wrote in message

> >> Nope. Not you. Actually, knowing how much it would annoy you, I won't
> >pray
> >> for you :-)
> >
> >But whilst your down on your knees :-O
>
> In your dreams.

Grown out of the wet ones I'm afraid ;-)

Has your son got to that age yet? Can be difficult for some parents to
explain.

Dennis

[Joelle]

>Grown out of the wet ones I'm afraid ;-)
>
>Has your son got to that age yet?

He's old enough that I respect him enough not to discuss that here : )

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

[CME]

"denanson" <Dennis@Large .ie> wrote in message
...
>
> "Joelle" > wrote in message
>
>> >> Nope. Not you. Actually, knowing how much it would annoy you, I
>> >> won't
>> >pray
>> >> for you :-)
>> >
>> >But whilst your down on your knees :-O
>>
>> In your dreams.
>
> Grown out of the wet ones I'm afraid ;-)
>
> Has your son got to that age yet? Can be difficult for some parents to
> explain.
>
> Dennis

What age is this so I can prepare?

Christine

[Betsy]

"CME" > wrote in message
news:Ik15d.49484$t61.38407@clgrps13...
>
> "denanson" <Dennis@Large .ie> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Joelle" > wrote in message
>>
>>> >> Nope. Not you. Actually, knowing how much it would annoy you, I
>>> >> won't
>>> >pray
>>> >> for you :-)
>>> >
>>> >But whilst your down on your knees :-O
>>>
>>> In your dreams.
>>
>> Grown out of the wet ones I'm afraid ;-)
>>
>> Has your son got to that age yet? Can be difficult for some parents to
>> explain.
>>
>> Dennis
>
> What age is this so I can prepare?
>
> Christine
>

I believe Dennis is referring to puberty. The age differs for each child.

Betsy

[CME]

"Betsy" > wrote in message
news:eG25d.295$Mf.79@trnddc05...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:Ik15d.49484$t61.38407@clgrps13...
>>
>> "denanson" <Dennis@Large .ie> wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Joelle" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> >> Nope. Not you. Actually, knowing how much it would annoy you, I
>>>> >> won't
>>>> >pray
>>>> >> for you :-)
>>>> >
>>>> >But whilst your down on your knees :-O
>>>>
>>>> In your dreams.
>>>
>>> Grown out of the wet ones I'm afraid ;-)
>>>
>>> Has your son got to that age yet? Can be difficult for some parents to
>>> explain.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>
>> What age is this so I can prepare?
>>
>> Christine
>>
>
> I believe Dennis is referring to puberty. The age differs for each child.
>
> Betsy

Doesn't masturbation start at a younger age though? That's why I'm asking,
I have no idea about some of these things. I mean just last weekend my son
was kicked in the balls and the pain seemed to go away. Then the next night
he complained of it really hurting. So I asked some friends about it
because geez I don't know and I didn't want to go to the doctor if it was
just a normal post-sacking dilemma. So my Dad said check to see if he's
swollen.... well thankfully I have twins so a quick look at them both showed
that yes indeedy things were um not quite right. They'll have to learn to
guard their bits a bit more in the future.

Christine

[Lisa]

"Bebelestrnge0721" > wrote in message
...
> >ubject: Re: Need a couple of ideas and resources
> >From: "slykitten"
> >Date: 9/16/2004 10:57 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >do you have any clue about anything??? he IS my son's STEP DAD!!!! he's
the
> >ONLY DAD my son has EVER known! He became DAD when my son was 15 months
old
> >and he accepted US. Yes, he IS STEP DAD.
> >
> >--
> No Sly she does not have a clue... I do though , I understand 100%. My
> daughters had a step mom, from the time the oldest was 5 1/2 and the
youngest
> she was 6 months old, would we have married over 20 years ago probably,
but we
> were denied that right. What do I feel about the paperwork now F%$# it,
means
> nothing what we had was more than any piece of paper could give us. Our
vows
> were etched within our hearts . Stay strong let it roll off it doesn't
matter
> if there are people so shallow that they don't get it. Take care :)
> Bev


Pack yer bags Bev,,,,,,you can get married up here! There was even the
first same sex divorce. We Canadians are selective in the kind of history
we make :)

Lisa