A question about unwed parenthood

[Werebat]

Question:

A couple have been living together for nearly a year, in the woman's
house. He earns about $50,000 per year, and she earns about $150,000
per year.

Though unmarried, they choose to have a child together.

Soon after the birth of the child, they go to family court to put it in
legal writing that each parent has 50/50 joint physical and legal
custody of the child.

Assume this goes through (will it?)

Ten years later, they dissolve their relationship. Since the house
doesn't belong to him, the man moves out.

Are there now grounds for a change in custody, if the woman sues for it?
How can the man protect himself from this?

- Ron ^*^

[The Dave©]

> Werebat wrote:
> Soon after the birth of the child, they go to family court to put it
> in legal writing that each parent has 50/50 joint physical and legal
> custody of the child.
>
> Assume this goes through (will it?)

I'm not clear why the family court would even get involved. There's no
divorce or other split that would necessitate CS.

--
If Illinois is the "Land of Lincoln", what were they before the Civil
War?

[Gini]

In article <YaH4d.45$Ok.21@okepread04>, Werebat says...
>
>
>Question:
>
>A couple have been living together for nearly a year, in the woman's
>house. He earns about $50,000 per year, and she earns about $150,000
>per year.
>
>Though unmarried, they choose to have a child together.
>
>Soon after the birth of the child, they go to family court to put it in
>legal writing that each parent has 50/50 joint physical and legal
>custody of the child.
>
>Assume this goes through (will it?)
>
>Ten years later, they dissolve their relationship. Since the house
>doesn't belong to him, the man moves out.
>
>Are there now grounds for a change in custody, if the woman sues for it?
> How can the man protect himself from this?
>
> - Ron ^*^
====
Ya gonna be a daddy again, Ron? These are matters of state law but are subject
to the mood of the judge (that day). You will have to check your statutes.
====
====

[Werebat]

Gini wrote:
> In article <YaH4d.45$Ok.21@okepread04>, Werebat says...
>
>>
>>Question:
>>
>>A couple have been living together for nearly a year, in the woman's
>>house. He earns about $50,000 per year, and she earns about $150,000
>>per year.
>>
>>Though unmarried, they choose to have a child together.
>>
>>Soon after the birth of the child, they go to family court to put it in
>>legal writing that each parent has 50/50 joint physical and legal
>>custody of the child.
>>
>>Assume this goes through (will it?)
>>
>>Ten years later, they dissolve their relationship. Since the house
>>doesn't belong to him, the man moves out.
>>
>>Are there now grounds for a change in custody, if the woman sues for it?
>> How can the man protect himself from this?
>>
>> - Ron ^*^
>
> ====
> Ya gonna be a daddy again, Ron? These are matters of state law but are subject
> to the mood of the judge (that day). You will have to check your statutes.
> ====

I'm only considering it because this woman is so exceptional. She knows
I'm posting here and has repeated many times that she doesn't want a
child unless I'm sure I want one too, and feel reasonably "safe" doing
so. She's also recommended I see a local lawyer about my options and
best bets for protecting myself. Otherwise she says she'd be happy
staying together and not having any kids.

Looks like I'm off to see a lawyer (again). Funny how they always win,
isn't it?

The irony is that I think she's a good egg, and I won't have to worry...
I've got no pressure to have a child, but the truth is I really would
like another, if it's with this woman. She's certainly not the Welfare
type, at any rate (understatement).

- Ron ^*^

[Werebat]

The Dave© wrote:

>>Werebat wrote:
>>Soon after the birth of the child, they go to family court to put it
>>in legal writing that each parent has 50/50 joint physical and legal
>>custody of the child.
>>
>>Assume this goes through (will it?)
>
>
> I'm not clear why the family court would even get involved. There's no
> divorce or other split that would necessitate CS.

I'm told it's difficult to alter a custody decision once it's been put
in place... As such I'd rather have 50/50 joint physical and legal on
legal paper while things are going swimmingly between the two of us,
just in case something unexpected happens.

My hope is that if we split years later, it would already be on paper
that we have 50/50 joint physical and legal, and that that would be
difficult to change.

Since she makes more money than I do, and likely always will, that will
leave me in a secure position financially (by that I mean I won't be
forking over any of my money to her, not that I'd expect a court to
award me one cent of a woman's money).

- Ron ^*^

[Tippy]

--
Tippy
"Werebat" > wrote in message
news:mpK4d.334469$Oi.78373@fed1read04...
>
>
> Gini wrote:
> > In article <YaH4d.45$Ok.21@okepread04>, Werebat says...
> >
> >>
> >>Question:
> >>
> >>A couple have been living together for nearly a year, in the woman's
> >>house. He earns about $50,000 per year, and she earns about $150,000
> >>per year.
> >>
> >>Though unmarried, they choose to have a child together.
> >>
> >>Soon after the birth of the child, they go to family court to put it in
> >>legal writing that each parent has 50/50 joint physical and legal
> >>custody of the child.
> >>
> >>Assume this goes through (will it?)
> >>
> >>Ten years later, they dissolve their relationship. Since the house
> >>doesn't belong to him, the man moves out.
> >>
> >>Are there now grounds for a change in custody, if the woman sues for it?
> >> How can the man protect himself from this?
> >>
> >> - Ron ^*^
> >
> > ====
> > Ya gonna be a daddy again, Ron? These are matters of state law but are
subject
> > to the mood of the judge (that day). You will have to check your
statutes.
> > ====
>
> I'm only considering it because this woman is so exceptional. She knows
> I'm posting here and has repeated many times that she doesn't want a
> child unless I'm sure I want one too, and feel reasonably "safe" doing
> so. She's also recommended I see a local lawyer about my options and
> best bets for protecting myself. Otherwise she says she'd be happy
> staying together and not having any kids.
>
> Looks like I'm off to see a lawyer (again). Funny how they always win,
> isn't it?
>
> The irony is that I think she's a good egg, and I won't have to worry...
> I've got no pressure to have a child, but the truth is I really would
> like another, if it's with this woman. She's certainly not the Welfare
> type, at any rate (understatement).
>
> - Ron ^*^

Ron -- I suggest both of you need to protect yourselves-- legally.
Attitudes change, people change, circumstances change.

Remember also that marriage conveys certain rights (we all know about the
disadvantages) that neither of you will have. Since you plan on spending
eternity together, you should take her up on the advice and it's good for
her to to see an attorney,too, even if you both go together. You need to
know what will happen in the event one or both you die, or get disabled, or
whatever.

[dadslawyer]

Read section on unwed fathers rights in the Guide to Fathers Rights
available at fathers-rights.com
"Werebat" > wrote in message
news:YaH4d.45$Ok.21@okepread04...
>
> Question:
>
> A couple have been living together for nearly a year, in the woman's
> house. He earns about $50,000 per year, and she earns about $150,000 per
> year.
>
> Though unmarried, they choose to have a child together.
>
> Soon after the birth of the child, they go to family court to put it in
> legal writing that each parent has 50/50 joint physical and legal custody
> of the child.
>
> Assume this goes through (will it?)
>
> Ten years later, they dissolve their relationship. Since the house
> doesn't belong to him, the man moves out.
>
> Are there now grounds for a change in custody, if the woman sues for it?
> How can the man protect himself from this?
>
> - Ron ^*^
>

[Suzanna]

<snip>

> >>Werebat wrote:
> >>Soon after the birth of the child, they go to family court to put it
> >>in legal writing that each parent has 50/50 joint physical and legal
> >>custody of the child.
> >>
> >>Assume this goes through (will it?)
> >
> >
> > I'm not clear why the family court would even get involved. There's no
> > divorce or other split that would necessitate CS.

I don't think Family Court would get involved either. Just draw up the
document with a lawyer. Then, if a split happens, there's a legal
document to show in Family Court.

>
> I'm told it's difficult to alter a custody decision once it's been put
> in place... As such I'd rather have 50/50 joint physical and legal on
> legal paper while things are going swimmingly between the two of us,
> just in case something unexpected happens.

Custody decisions get altered all the time, even ones decided by a
judge or mediator.

>
<snip>
>
> Since she makes more money than I do, and likely always will, that will
> leave me in a secure position financially (by that I mean I won't be
> forking over any of my money to her, not that I'd expect a court to
> award me one cent of a woman's money).

The gender makes no difference. If she makes more money than you, then
she may just have to fork some over. I would expect no less. I know
plenty of women who pay their exes, and willingly. But then again, I'm
talking about educated women, not gutter trash that some men seem to
hold dear.

Let the flames begain!!!!

[The Dave©]

> dadslawyer wrote:
> Read section on unwed fathers rights in the Guide to Fathers Rights
> available at fathers-rights.com

You left off the other part... "Have your VISA/MasterCard Ready!
Or send check or money order to:"

When you post and direct people, it would be courteous to at least
mention that payment is expected for this information.

--
If Illinois is the "Land of Lincoln", what were they before the Civil
War?

[Gini]

In article >, Suzanna says...
>
><snip>
>
>> >>Werebat wrote:
>> >>Soon after the birth of the child, they go to family court to put it
>> >>in legal writing that each parent has 50/50 joint physical and legal
>> >>custody of the child.
>> >>
>> >>Assume this goes through (will it?)
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm not clear why the family court would even get involved. There's no
>> > divorce or other split that would necessitate CS.
>
>I don't think Family Court would get involved either. Just draw up the
>document with a lawyer. Then, if a split happens, there's a legal
>document to show in Family Court.
====
The document isn't "legal" for custody/support matters unless approved by a
judge.
====
====

I doubt if you can stipulate (in advance) a child custody agreement. However,
you could "craft" such an agreement to provide monitary sanctions (payment)
to yourself should you split and the agreement isn't observed.

It would depend upon your state law. In california, for example, you
cannot enter any agreement to eliminate spousal support or child support
(that would be upheld by a court).

Not a lawyer as they say but you probably need to ask one familiar with
your state law. I would strongly suspect that the court will look at the
situation *at the time of separation* and determine a custody plan based
on tha future situation. I don't think you can draft a custody plan for
the distant future that the court would enforce.

If in doubt, go to one of those legal advice websites mentioned in the
nolo press documents and spent $75 to find out.

b.

[The Dave©]

> > wrote:
> It would depend upon your state law. In california, for example, you
> cannot enter any agreement to eliminate spousal support or child
> support (that would be upheld by a court).

I thought that you could pre-eliminate alimony in California, though
it's also possible to get a judge to overturn the agreement, making it
a gamble of sorts. I do know that you cannot eliminate CS.

--
If Illinois is the "Land of Lincoln", what were they before the Civil
War?

[Gini]

In article >, The Dave© says...
>
>> > wrote:
>> It would depend upon your state law. In california, for example, you
>> cannot enter any agreement to eliminate spousal support or child
>> support (that would be upheld by a court).
>
>I thought that you could pre-eliminate alimony in California, though
>it's also possible to get a judge to overturn the agreement, making it
>a gamble of sorts. I do know that you cannot eliminate CS.
====
From the opinions I have read, the court fancies itself better able to determine
the best interest of the child and will disallow any agreement between parents
that does not comply with the state's interpretation of same. The parents can
agree to anything they wish, but if a judge gets involved, he/she can trump the
agreement as "not in the best interest of the child," (today). This is precisely
the reason I could never turn control of my children over to a court and had no
court orders regarding our kids.
====

: I thought that you could pre-eliminate alimony in California, though
: it's also possible to get a judge to overturn the agreement, making it
: a gamble of sorts. I do know that you cannot eliminate CS.

You are correct. I was recalling what my attorney told me but after that,
the laws in Calif. were changed (the case of Barry Bonds... the baseball
player). In Bond's case, they had a prenup that disallowed Spousal Support
(that's what they call it in Calif). His ex, upon separation claimed
that she didn't posess informed consent relating to the agreement. It
was challenged and Bonds prevailed. Now, in Calif., if one stipulates
to eliminate Spoussal Support, both parties need to be represented
by separate attorneys when agreeing to the prenup disallowing Sp. Support.
If they are, then the support can be stipulated to be disallowed.

http://www.caldivorceguide.com/jsp/cdpage.jsp?pDoc=/essay/essay6.htm

b.