Re: Bedtime drama

[toto]

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:08:39 GMT, "Babs" > wrote:

>But... bedtime is becoming more and more of a drama lately.
>We have a bedtime routine I started the day we got home after he was born,
>and although it has changed a bit over time, it was never changed
>drastically and certainly not in these last weeks.

Remember that as children grow a change of routine may be appropriate.

Some things to look at:

Is he either overtired or not so tired when you begin putting him to
bed? Does he react with kicking when you attempt to change his
diaper during the day? Can you distract him while you are changing
him with a special toy he has at no other time or try singing to him
while you change him? Does he wake at night after he finally does
go to sleep?

That said, your routine isn't bad, but he may be ready for a bit of a
change. Does he have a favorite story? When is his bathtime? Baths
usually calmed my kids down at this age, so we had the bath and
diaper change shortly before bed, then read a story in bed before
putting them to sleep.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

[Rosalie B.]

x-no-archive:yes "Babs" > wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>DS is almost 17 months, grows and develops well, is happy and cheerfull
>most of the time, healthy, sleeps well, eats everything I put in front of
>him, so we're really counting our blessings.
>But... bedtime is becoming more and more of a drama lately.
>We have a bedtime routine I started the day we got home after he was born,
>and although it has changed a bit over time, it was never changed
>drastically and certainly not in these last weeks.

Possibly what has changed is that the days are longer now, so his
brain isn't signaled to him that it is time for bed because it is
still light out.

>When it's time for bed, I never pick him up suddenly, I always talk to him
>about it being time for bed and maybe he should go say goodnight to daddy
>first. Ofcourse he doesn't, so either daddy goes to him, picks him up and
>wishes him goodnight, or I pick him up or take his hand and walk with him
>to daddy to say goodnight. Then I pick him up and take him upstairs,
>sometimes I let him climb the stairs by himself (he's very good at that,
>and I'm always right behind him with both hands free to assist him). When
>we get to his room I start changing his diaper, and that's when the crying,
>the kicking, and lately the screaming starts. He really throws a tantrum,
>and I find it more and more difficult to deal with that.
>I do keep calm, talk to him quietly, while I try to change his diaper.
>Because of the kicking changing the diaper is a real challenge! After the
>diaper is changed and he's in his PJ's (or just a onesie with the heatwave
>we now have here), I hold him while walking to his crib, telling him I

This sounds as though you are apologizing to him for putting him to
bed. This may give him the idea that he can get out of it by not
doing it - like he doesn't have to give his daddy a hug goodnight -
since he doesn't, daddy does it for him.

This is a frustrating age and they can understand more than they can
express themselves, but I would do it more briefly and not go on and
on about it over and over again.

>understand he doesn't want to go to sleep yet because there still is so
>much playing to do and so much to see and explore but that the playing and
>seeing and exploring is much more fun when he's had a good night's sleep. I
>wipe his tears away, give him a cuddle and a kiss (or 2, or 3) and put him
>in his crib. He has some stuffed animals in his crib, 2 are his favorites,
>he's fumbling with either one of them all the time, and I give him those.
>He puts his thumb in his mouth, and THAT's when the screaming stops.... For
>a minute...All this time he's screaming and kicking like hell.

I'd change his diaper downstairs on the floor, and then go upstairs
and do the night-time routine.

>Then I put on the CD with soothing music that I've always put on since he
>was born (and boy oh boy, I dare not forget that CD, then there's really
>hell to pay!), switch on the nightlight, turn off one of the two lamps that
>were on, walk back to his crib, kiss him goodnight, and whoop there it
>is....Screaming like he's being molested. I stroke his head and his tummy
>once, say night-night once more, turn off the other light that was still
>on, and leave the room.
>He will continue screaming for about 10 minutes and then falls asleep.
>There has never been any occasion where he's been crying or ill or needed
>our attention for whatever other reason that we haven't given him that
>attention he needed. In his room is a wireless infrared camera, the monitor
>is in our computerroom and also plugged in to our tv in the living room. So
>whenever he makes a sound, we can see what's going on and react to that.
>
>What am I to do? At first I thought that it would pass if I just kept being
>consistent, acknowledging his feelings about not wanting to go to bed but

Consistency is fine, but I think (just my prejudice) that you are
making too much of acknowledging of his feelings.

>still be firm: bedtime is bedtime. But somehow it's only getting worse. I'm
>no tiny woman (1,74 m. / 70 kgs), but there are moments I fear DS will fall
>of the changingtable because of the kicking and squirming he does, and I
>can't "restrain" him. DH has the same problem with DS.
>
>I would love to read your insights, tips and advice on how to handle this!
>
>TIA!
>
>Babs
>Proud momma to Nick (03/05/2002)

grandma Rosalie

[Kereru]

"Babs" > wrote in message
. ..
> Hi all,
>
> DS is almost 17 months, grows and develops well, is happy and cheerfull
> most of the time, healthy, sleeps well, eats everything I put in front of
> him, so we're really counting our blessings.
> But... bedtime is becoming more and more of a drama lately.
> We have a bedtime routine I started the day we got home after he was born,
> and although it has changed a bit over time, it was never changed
> drastically and certainly not in these last weeks.
> When it's time for bed, I never pick him up suddenly, I always talk to him
> about it being time for bed and maybe he should go say goodnight to daddy
> first. Ofcourse he doesn't, so either daddy goes to him, picks him up and
> wishes him goodnight, or I pick him up or take his hand and walk with him
> to daddy to say goodnight. Then I pick him up and take him upstairs,
> sometimes I let him climb the stairs by himself (he's very good at that,
> and I'm always right behind him with both hands free to assist him). When
> we get to his room I start changing his diaper, and that's when the
crying,
> the kicking, and lately the screaming starts. He really throws a tantrum,
> and I find it more and more difficult to deal with that.
> I do keep calm, talk to him quietly, while I try to change his diaper.
> Because of the kicking changing the diaper is a real challenge! After the
> diaper is changed and he's in his PJ's (or just a onesie with the heatwave
> we now have here), I hold him while walking to his crib, telling him I
> understand he doesn't want to go to sleep yet because there still is so
> much playing to do and so much to see and explore but that the playing and
> seeing and exploring is much more fun when he's had a good night's sleep.
I
> wipe his tears away, give him a cuddle and a kiss (or 2, or 3) and put him
> in his crib. He has some stuffed animals in his crib, 2 are his favorites,
> he's fumbling with either one of them all the time, and I give him those.
> He puts his thumb in his mouth, and THAT's when the screaming stops....
For
> a minute...All this time he's screaming and kicking like hell.
> Then I put on the CD with soothing music that I've always put on since he
> was born (and boy oh boy, I dare not forget that CD, then there's really
> hell to pay!), switch on the nightlight, turn off one of the two lamps
that
> were on, walk back to his crib, kiss him goodnight, and whoop there it
> is....Screaming like he's being molested. I stroke his head and his tummy
> once, say night-night once more, turn off the other light that was still
> on, and leave the room.
> He will continue screaming for about 10 minutes and then falls asleep.
> There has never been any occasion where he's been crying or ill or needed
> our attention for whatever other reason that we haven't given him that
> attention he needed. In his room is a wireless infrared camera, the
monitor
> is in our computerroom and also plugged in to our tv in the living room.
So
> whenever he makes a sound, we can see what's going on and react to that.
>
> What am I to do? At first I thought that it would pass if I just kept
being
> consistent, acknowledging his feelings about not wanting to go to bed but
> still be firm: bedtime is bedtime. But somehow it's only getting worse.
I'm
> no tiny woman (1,74 m. / 70 kgs), but there are moments I fear DS will
fall
> of the changingtable because of the kicking and squirming he does, and I
> can't "restrain" him. DH has the same problem with DS.
>
> I would love to read your insights, tips and advice on how to handle this!
>
> TIA!
>
> Babs
> Proud momma to Nick (03/05/2002)
> --
> Got the swing, got the sway, got my straw in lemonade
> http://www.babsje.nl
>
>

Perhaps try changing his nappy and putting him into his PJs a bit earlier
then have a cuddle/story/drink of milk etc... so if he gets cranky when he
gets changed he calms down againg before bed. We have alsways had a bath
before bed too and that seems to relax him.

The explaining about how he will have more energy for play tommorow might go
over his head a bit at his age. I tell my son 22 months that it's night time
and little boys sleep at night time and play when it's daytime. He's gone
from taking no notice to saying "okay, night night" and then going off to
sleep.

Last but not least you have to be a great actor! If you seem nervous around
bedtime he will pick it up. I used to be a nervous wreck, would he go down,
or wouldn't he! these days I put on my most confident and relaxed attitude
and I tell him what's happening not the other way around. He now goes down
without a problem, it's just a matter of time.

Good Luck

Judy

[Nevermind]

How long has this been going on? My son, who whad been an excellent
sleeper, started kicking up a HUGE fuss at bedtime whe he was 2. After
a couple of nights of being confused about it and trying various means
to get him to quiet down, I went back to following our usual routine
and then simply leaving him to his shrieking, like you are doing, and
telling him, every 5 minutes through his closed bedroom door, that I
loved him but it was time to sleep and I'd see him in the morning. It
only lasted a couple more days. You may find this also passes quickly
since you are consistently not giving in. Ten minutes ain't bad -- my
son was shrieking for about an hour.

However, if this has been persisting for a little while, you may want
to consider, as Toto said, whether he might need an earlier bedtime or
whether he might need a change in routine. Maybe you could front-load
the routine a bit. Maybe do his last diaper change downstairs before
you even mention bedtime and then get everything (e.g., the lights and
the music) ready before you put him in his crib and say goodnight and
leave. However, even though he is so young, if you make any changes in
the routine, I'd probably tell him you're going to ahead of time and
remind him as you do it the first few nights. Tell him it's to help
him go to sleep better, without the yelling.

Keep us posted!


"Babs" > wrote in message >...
> Hi all,
>
> DS is almost 17 months, grows and develops well, is happy and cheerfull
> most of the time, healthy, sleeps well, eats everything I put in front of
> him, so we're really counting our blessings.
> But... bedtime is becoming more and more of a drama lately.
> We have a bedtime routine I started the day we got home after he was born,
> and although it has changed a bit over time, it was never changed
> drastically and certainly not in these last weeks.
> When it's time for bed, I never pick him up suddenly, I always talk to him
> about it being time for bed and maybe he should go say goodnight to daddy
> first. Ofcourse he doesn't, so either daddy goes to him, picks him up and
> wishes him goodnight, or I pick him up or take his hand and walk with him
> to daddy to say goodnight. Then I pick him up and take him upstairs,
> sometimes I let him climb the stairs by himself (he's very good at that,
> and I'm always right behind him with both hands free to assist him). When
> we get to his room I start changing his diaper, and that's when the crying,
> the kicking, and lately the screaming starts. He really throws a tantrum,
> and I find it more and more difficult to deal with that.
> I do keep calm, talk to him quietly, while I try to change his diaper.
> Because of the kicking changing the diaper is a real challenge! After the
> diaper is changed and he's in his PJ's (or just a onesie with the heatwave
> we now have here), I hold him while walking to his crib, telling him I
> understand he doesn't want to go to sleep yet because there still is so
> much playing to do and so much to see and explore but that the playing and
> seeing and exploring is much more fun when he's had a good night's sleep. I
> wipe his tears away, give him a cuddle and a kiss (or 2, or 3) and put him
> in his crib. He has some stuffed animals in his crib, 2 are his favorites,
> he's fumbling with either one of them all the time, and I give him those.
> He puts his thumb in his mouth, and THAT's when the screaming stops.... For
> a minute...All this time he's screaming and kicking like hell.
> Then I put on the CD with soothing music that I've always put on since he
> was born (and boy oh boy, I dare not forget that CD, then there's really
> hell to pay!), switch on the nightlight, turn off one of the two lamps that
> were on, walk back to his crib, kiss him goodnight, and whoop there it
> is....Screaming like he's being molested. I stroke his head and his tummy
> once, say night-night once more, turn off the other light that was still
> on, and leave the room.
> He will continue screaming for about 10 minutes and then falls asleep.
> There has never been any occasion where he's been crying or ill or needed
> our attention for whatever other reason that we haven't given him that
> attention he needed. In his room is a wireless infrared camera, the monitor
> is in our computerroom and also plugged in to our tv in the living room. So
> whenever he makes a sound, we can see what's going on and react to that.
>
> What am I to do? At first I thought that it would pass if I just kept being
> consistent, acknowledging his feelings about not wanting to go to bed but
> still be firm: bedtime is bedtime. But somehow it's only getting worse. I'm
> no tiny woman (1,74 m. / 70 kgs), but there are moments I fear DS will fall
> of the changingtable because of the kicking and squirming he does, and I
> can't "restrain" him. DH has the same problem with DS.
>
> I would love to read your insights, tips and advice on how to handle this!
>
> TIA!
>
> Babs
> Proud momma to Nick (03/05/2002)

[Nikki]

Babs wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> DS is almost 17 months, grows and develops well, is happy and
> cheerfull most of the time, healthy, sleeps well, eats everything I
> put in front of him, so we're really counting our blessings.
> But... bedtime is becoming more and more of a drama lately.


It was around 16 months that changing diapers became a trial for me. I
would suggest seperating the changing diaper/pj part from the night time
routine part. Do it earlier. I'd also do it on the bed or floor. A bath
might work but a bath winds my boys up so I do it earlier as well.

I wouldn't go on about him not wanting to go to sleep. I'm more inclined to
say that when we are sleepy we rest and then feel better. Resting is the
most enjoyable thing to do when we are tired etc. I used to try and talk
about all the wonderful things of the day, or things they might think about
while resting but once both of my boys could talk they told me to stop doing
that ;-). Anything to put a positive spin on the whole sleep thing.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

[Babs]

Hi all,

Thank you for your tips and advice!
It's been going on for about a month now, so I figured this wasn't going to
go away easily or that he'd just stop making it such a drama.
These last days have been a bit different, there's a heatwave in The
Netherlands, and that effects all of us. Luckily DS is a good sleeper once
he's settled in and calmed down, and he drinks his juice, milk and water
well, so he seems to be the least effected by the heat.
But.. I've tried some of the tips you gave, and they seem to work!
*knockonwood*
I started with just saying it was time to sleep because he was tired and
that he could play some more tomorrow. I am changing his diapers in the
livingroom more, but not regularly. When it's time for bed, I take DS
upstairs to change his diaper or give him his bath and when he's all set
for bed we go downstairs to have another drink (juice or milk). After that
I take him upstairs and put him to bed.
He's still screaming and fussing while I'm changing his diapers, and makes
it clear he does NOT want to be in bed when I put him in, but when I take
him downstairs for a drink he calmes immediately and that gives me (and
him) time to catch my breath and relax.

Naptime is completely different though! He had been fussy around naptime as
well as bedtime, but today my jaw dropped to the floor! I gave him his
afternoon bottle of milk (for some reason he drinks everything out of a
sippycup or a plastic cup but plainly refuses to drink his milk from
anything else but a bottle!) and told him that when he'd finished his
bottle I would take him upstairs for his nap. He almost finished his
bottle, took the bottle to the kitchen, handed it to daddy, walked back
towards the stairs and kept waiting until I opened the gate for him so he
could go upstairs for his nap! I put him in his bed, and allthough he was
babbling for almost half an hour after that, he did not start screaming or
crying, and right now he's sound asleep!
Let's hope this is the beginning of the end for the bedtime drama ;)

Babs
proud mama to Nick (03/05/2002)

--
Got the swing, got the sway, got my straw in lemonade
http://www.babsje.nl

[Babs]

Hi all,

Thank you for your tips and advice!
It's been going on for about a month now, so I figured this wasn't going to
go away easily or that he'd just stop making it such a drama.
These last days have been a bit different, there's a heatwave in The
Netherlands, and that effects all of us. Luckily DS is a good sleeper once
he's settled in and calmed down, and he drinks his juice, milk and water
well, so he seems to be the least effected by the heat.
But.. I've tried some of the tips you gave, and they seem to work!
*knockonwood*
I started with just saying it was time to sleep because he was tired and
that he could play some more tomorrow. I am changing his diapers in the
livingroom more, but not regularly. When it's time for bed, I take DS
upstairs to change his diaper or give him his bath and when he's all set
for bed we go downstairs to have another drink (juice or milk). After that
I take him upstairs and put him to bed.
He's still screaming and fussing while I'm changing his diapers, and makes
it clear he does NOT want to be in bed when I put him in, but when I take
him downstairs for a drink he calmes immediately and that gives me (and
him) time to catch my breath and relax.

Naptime is completely different though! He had been fussy around naptime as
well as bedtime, but today my jaw dropped to the floor! I gave him his
afternoon bottle of milk (for some reason he drinks everything out of a
sippycup or a plastic cup but plainly refuses to drink his milk from
anything else but a bottle!) and told him that when he'd finished his
bottle I would take him upstairs for his nap. He almost finished his
bottle, took the bottle to the kitchen, handed it to daddy, walked back
towards the stairs and kept waiting until I opened the gate for him so he
could go upstairs for his nap! I put him in his bed, and allthough he was
babbling for almost half an hour after that, he did not start screaming or
crying, and right now he's sound asleep!
Let's hope this is the beginning of the end for the bedtime drama ;)

Babs
proud mama to Nick (03/05/2002)

--
Got the swing, got the sway, got my straw in lemonade
http://www.babsje.nl