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Dusty
November 2nd 04, 02:06 AM
Sunday, October 31, 2004

http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0410/31/a01-320553.htm

Divorced Mich. fathers sue for equity in child custody

Class-action lawsuit seeks to make joint custody the first option judges
consider

By Kim Kozlowski / The Detroit News

TROY - Michigan fathers seeking to make joint custody the norm in divorce
cases are suing the state in a class-action lawsuit they hope will stop the
courts from marginalizing their role in their children's lives.

The suit claims the state's family courts have violated fathers' civil
rights by awarding mothers custody and reducing them to visitors. The suit
was filed when noncustodial parents in 43 other states filed similar suits,
and when fathers are seeking similar parental equity in Europe and Canada.

"What I wanted was for my kids to have as normal of a life as possible,"
said Troy resident Michael Ross, the primary litigant, whose court order
grants him parenting time with his three children every other weekend and a
few hours during the week.

"This lawsuit is not about me but what is best for them: substantial time
with their mother and substantial time with their dad."

The lawsuit is the latest attempt by Michigan's noncustodial parents, who
are overwhelmingly fathers, to force courts to presume that joint custody is
in a child's best interest at the outset of a divorce. Judges still would
have the authority to decide what's best for the child, but it would reduce
some of their discretion. Currently, judges base their decision on what they
consider to be best for the children, but fathers argue that those decisions
are rooted in cultural stereotypes that mothers are better parents.

Physical custody has long been disproportionately awarded to mothers. Out of
the state's 19,108 divorce cases involving children in 2002, mothers were
given physical custody in 64 percent of the cases and fathers in 10 percent,
according to the Michigan Department of Community Health. Joint custody was
awarded in 23 percent.

Additionally, for couples who never marry, Michigan law grants custody to
mothers, bolstering fathers' argument that the system is unfair.

Experts say the reason mothers are more often awarded custody of children is
because of the cultural history of women being the primary caretakers, said
Leighton Stamps, a University of New Orleans professor who has studied the
decision-making of judges in child custody cases.

"A lot of the judges' attitudes depend on their age," Stamps said. "Older
judges tend to be more traditional. Younger judges tend to be more
egalitarian."

However, custody laws like Michigan's, which rest on the best interest of
the child, give judges a lot of latitude, Stamps added.

"A judge can pretty much pick out any aspect of the family situation in
making these rulings," Stamps said.

Fathers have lobbied the Michigan Legislature twice in the past eight years
and have launched a petition drive to get equal parenting rights, efforts
that have been largely unsuccessful.

However, some observers argue that joint custody is not a viable option in
many cases because there are some fathers unable to accommodate the
arrangement either because of their job or because they live in another
state.

There are other fathers, too, who don't want to be a part of their
children's life. And there are situations when the mother and father just
can't get along.

"You can't force a joint custody situation on two people who are not capable
of getting along, because what will happen to the child?" said Debbie Kline,
executive director of Association for Children for the Enforcement of
Support. "It takes a lot more cooperation between the two adults, and many
divorcing parents can't get along."

Dads demand equal time

Often the animosity of a divorce fuels disagreement between moms and dads
when it comes to the children, especially when they are trying to split
parenting time. When parents can't agree, the court steps in and typically
defaults to a parenting plan that involves every other weekend and some time
during the week.

But fathers say that's not enough time to raise their children.

"Just because a family dissolves doesn't mean that it's no longer a family,"
said Michael Lane of Farmington Hills, who had monthly visits with his
now-adult son.

"It's just a family of a different nature. Both parents have
responsibilities toward the children and toward one another."

Though the number of joint custody awards has been slowly increasing, which
some observers believe is a sign that times are changing, some fathers say
they are not being awarded enough. They also say it doesn't always mean they
will have equal time with their kids.

Joint legal custody allows parents to play equal roles in making decisions
for their child's upbringing such as education, religion and health care.
But for some fathers, it doesn't always mean equal time to raise the child.

"It's just unbearable," said Daniel Gee of Novi, who has custody of his
16-year-old son but not his 12-year-old son, whom he sees every other
weekend. "This stuff is emotionally devastating, and you go to the courts
and they are callous. It's an unacceptable way to treat a parent."

Father's role is vital

Psychologists say children who don't spend enough time with their fathers
can develop emotional problems such as low self-esteem, depression and
feelings of abandonment. Fatherless children are more likely to act out at
school, develop truancy problems and develop unhealthy perceptions about
relationships, said Michael Brooks, a Kalamazoo psychologist.

"Both parents bring unique characteristics and aspects to parenting the
children," said Brooks, who is a member of the state's Friend of the Court
Advisory Board. "But it's difficult to be a parent two days out of 15."

Brooks said a court-ordered parenting plan that only includes every other
weekend and a few nights a week could be construed as a situation that
creates a fatherless child. This is why he supports the movement that courts
should initially presume joint custody for divorcing couples, unless one of
them is shown to be unfit.

John Mills, chairman of the family law section of the Michigan State Bar,
said mandating a presumption of joint custody would take away the discretion
of judges, who are considering each individual case.

"They make the decision on what is best for the children," said Mills, who
opposes presumed joint legal custody.

Lawsuit marks new approach

The move for equal parenting time has been under way for some time. In 1996
and 2001, fathers' rights groups got parity bills introduced into the state
Legislature, but neither went very far.

Earlier this year, Dads of Michigan sponsored a petition drive to get the
issue onto the ballot, but the group couldn't get enough signatures. The
class-action lawsuit, filed last month, is attempting to seek change through
another avenue that so far has not been explored.

Attorney General Mike Cox, who has earned a reputation for cracking down on
parents who don't pay child support, is seeking to dismiss Ross' case on
grounds that the state can't be sued in federal court, where the case was
filed.

Since the suit claims Michigan has broken laws by violating its citizens'
rights, the state is not immune from being sued, said Torm Howse, president
of Indiana Civil Rights Council, which is coordinating the lawsuits in all
the states, including Michigan.

"This is not about trying to help abusive parents," Howse said. "It's about
restoring the equal right of every fit and equal parent to joint or shared
parenting."

Ross, the Troy father who filed the lawsuit, says it goes beyond that.

"This," Ross said, "is about a force that is taking place in our culture
that is very bad for our society overall."


You can reach Kim Kozlowski at (313) 222-2024 or .
-----------------------------------------------------------
How custody (in MI) is decided (at least that's what they claim..)

*Judges decide custody matters. The friend of the court and domestic
relations referees can only make recommendations for orders to judges.

* By law, judges must make decisions based on the best interests of the
child.

* If parents disagree with the judge's decisions, they may appeal to a
higher court. Appeals in domestic relations cases go to the Michigan Court
of Appeals.

* Parents may ask the judge to review a recent custody decision.

* During many custody hearings, judges speak to the children about their
preference. Judges will decide who will be present when they interview
children. While a record is made of the interview, judges do not have to
tell the parents or their attorneys what the child's preference was, only
that it was considered.

* The child's preference is only one consideration in the case.

Source: State Court Administrative Office, Friend of the Court Bureau


------------------------------------------------------------
Eliminate the impossible and whatever
remains, no matter how improbable, must
be the truth.

---- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ---

Bob Whiteside
November 2nd 04, 02:24 AM
"Dusty" > wrote in message
...

> Physical custody has long been disproportionately awarded to mothers. Out
of
> the state's 19,108 divorce cases involving children in 2002, mothers were
> given physical custody in 64 percent of the cases and fathers in 10
percent,
> according to the Michigan Department of Community Health. Joint custody
was
> awarded in 23 percent.

Of course, what is deceiving about this paragraph is the "joint custody" is
really joint legal custody and not joint physical custody.

This is an old trick by state governments to make it appear fathers are
getting much more custody of children than they claim. What is not
explained is the legal differences between the various types of joint
custody and what they really mean. In one sentence the writer mixed up
physical custody and legal custody, and bought in on the state's premise the
numbers add up to 100%.

A more accurate portrayal of the facts would be to say mothers get over 86%
of the sole custody awards (64/74) and a similar ratio applies to the mother
getting physical custody when joint legal custody is awarded.

November 2nd 04, 03:56 PM
In alt.support.divorce Bob Whiteside > wrote:

: Of course, what is deceiving about this paragraph is the "joint custody" is
: really joint legal custody and not joint physical custody.

: This is an old trick by state governments to make it appear fathers are
: getting much more custody of children than they claim. What is not
: explained is the legal differences between the various types of joint
: custody and what they really mean. In one sentence the writer mixed up
: physical custody and legal custody, and bought in on the state's premise the
: numbers add up to 100%.

Again, "joint physical custody" doesn't imply 50 percent time with each
parent. I have joint legal and physical custody and have a 20% timeshare
with our child due to the mother moving away. It was that way since day one.

b.

krp
November 2nd 04, 10:56 PM
> wrote in message
...
> In alt.support.divorce Bob Whiteside > wrote:
>
> : Of course, what is deceiving about this paragraph is the "joint custody"
> is
> : really joint legal custody and not joint physical custody.
>
> : This is an old trick by state governments to make it appear fathers are
> : getting much more custody of children than they claim. What is not
> : explained is the legal differences between the various types of joint
> : custody and what they really mean. In one sentence the writer mixed up
> : physical custody and legal custody, and bought in on the state's premise
> the
> : numbers add up to 100%.
>
> Again, "joint physical custody" doesn't imply 50 percent time with each
> parent. I have joint legal and physical custody and have a 20% timeshare
> with our child due to the mother moving away. It was that way since day
> one.

Joint Custody in MOST states is so much intellectual masturbation to
keep men quiet. Where studies have been done in places like California, dads
actually get LESS time with their kids than they did under the old SOLE
CUSTODY laws. When mom says she will NOT allow dad to have "visitation" and
dad take it to court - the Judges answer: "You HAVE joint custody what the
hell else do you want?" What they CALL it makes very little difference. It
is REALITY that counts. Do you see women who screw dads of visitation going
to jail in any of those "Joint Custody" states? Again research done by
father's rights groups show it is even LESS than it was 25 years ago! It is
a RIP OFF!

Rambler
November 3rd 04, 01:27 AM
krp wrote:
>
> Joint Custody in MOST states is so much intellectual masturbation to
> keep men quiet. Where studies have been done in places like California, dads
> actually get LESS time with their kids than they did under the old SOLE
> CUSTODY laws.

Do you have cites?

> When mom says she will NOT allow dad to have "visitation" and
> dad take it to court - the Judges answer: "You HAVE joint custody what the
> hell else do you want?" What they CALL it makes very little difference. It
> is REALITY that counts. Do you see women who screw dads of visitation going
> to jail in any of those "Joint Custody" states? Again research done by
> father's rights groups show it is even LESS than it was 25 years ago!

Again, do you have cites?

Rambler

krp
November 3rd 04, 01:46 AM
"Rambler" > wrote in message
...

>> Joint Custody in MOST states is so much intellectual masturbation to
>> keep men quiet. Where studies have been done in places like California,
>> dads actually get LESS time with their kids than they did under the old
>> SOLE CUSTODY laws.

> Do you have cites?

Old ones not on the net from the 80's.

>> When mom says she will NOT allow dad to have "visitation" and dad take it
>> to court - the Judges answer: "You HAVE joint custody what the hell else
>> do you want?" What they CALL it makes very little difference. It is
>> REALITY that counts. Do you see women who screw dads of visitation going
>> to jail in any of those "Joint Custody" states? Again research done by
>> father's rights groups show it is even LESS than it was 25 years ago!

> Again, do you have cites?

Not online that I am aware of. Was done by United Fathers of California.

Laura
November 3rd 04, 07:28 AM
"krp" > wrote in message
news:yLWhd.5888$wP1.3027@trnddc09...
>
> "Rambler" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> Joint Custody in MOST states is so much intellectual masturbation
to
> >> keep men quiet. Where studies have been done in places like California,
> >> dads actually get LESS time with their kids than they did under the old
> >> SOLE CUSTODY laws.
>
> > Do you have cites?
>
> Old ones not on the net from the 80's.
>
> >> When mom says she will NOT allow dad to have "visitation" and dad take
it
> >> to court - the Judges answer: "You HAVE joint custody what the hell
else
> >> do you want?" What they CALL it makes very little difference. It is
> >> REALITY that counts. Do you see women who screw dads of visitation
going
> >> to jail in any of those "Joint Custody" states? Again research done by
> >> father's rights groups show it is even LESS than it was 25 years ago!
>
> > Again, do you have cites?
>
> Not online that I am aware of. Was done by United Fathers of
California.

Cites from the 80's? Not even close to accurate in 2004. I'd be interested
in seeing real, current cites.

Laura in CA

Bob Whiteside
November 3rd 04, 06:21 PM
"Laura" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "krp" > wrote in message
> news:yLWhd.5888$wP1.3027@trnddc09...
> >
> > "Rambler" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > >> Joint Custody in MOST states is so much intellectual masturbation
> to
> > >> keep men quiet. Where studies have been done in places like
California,
> > >> dads actually get LESS time with their kids than they did under the
old
> > >> SOLE CUSTODY laws.
> >
> > > Do you have cites?
> >
> > Old ones not on the net from the 80's.
> >
> > >> When mom says she will NOT allow dad to have "visitation" and dad
take
> it
> > >> to court - the Judges answer: "You HAVE joint custody what the hell
> else
> > >> do you want?" What they CALL it makes very little difference. It is
> > >> REALITY that counts. Do you see women who screw dads of visitation
> going
> > >> to jail in any of those "Joint Custody" states? Again research done
by
> > >> father's rights groups show it is even LESS than it was 25 years ago!
> >
> > > Again, do you have cites?
> >
> > Not online that I am aware of. Was done by United Fathers of
> California.
>
> Cites from the 80's? Not even close to accurate in 2004. I'd be
interested
> in seeing real, current cites.

Get a copy of Dr. Sanford Braver's book Divorced Dads: Shattering the Myths.
There is an entire chapter on joint custody issues and recent research.

Braver's research concludes divorced parents who are pre-disposed to
cooperate will cooperate whether the court's decree states sole custody or
joint legal custody. Likewise, forced joint custody decrees can make
parental cooperation worse, since mothers feel they lose control over the
children and have to regularly deal with their ex-husbands.