single man looking for single mom [Archive]

Purchgdss

December 13th 04, 10:25 AM

>
>"Purchgdss" > wrote in message
...
>> >hello iam single man 41 year old lookking to meet a woman
>>>
>>
>> Dang it Kat! You gotta watch those kids better!
>>
>> But somehow, I think most 4 yo's are better spellers and know more about
>> sentance structure....
>>
>> Just my 2 cents.........
>> Christine
>
>Shame on me! I'm sorry. I regret to inform you all that it really wasn't
>the kid and his little buds, but it was really one of these obnoxious cats
>that was pouncing about the computer the other night, and many nights
>before... Not to mention many nights since and many, many more nights to
>come.
>I'm REALLY sorry... It probably will happen again... Killfile will only do
>so much. :'(
>

Now THAT I could buy! Those pesky cats are SOOOOO sneaky..... I felt bad when
I gave T a hard time for leaving the water dripping.... Months later and after
much denial from him..... I watched my persian pull at the handle enough to
make it drip.... :: blush ::

Now I'll have to lock my computer down each night to keep him off the porn
sites!

Just my 2 cents.........
Christine

P.Fritz

December 13th 04, 02:06 PM

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>
>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>> u can email me if u
>>> like to
>>> tell few thimg
>>
>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards and
>> forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just happens to be
>> one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though. lol
>>
>> Christine
>>
>
> Not for me, he just has to be pretty. He need not spell or speak. lol

Well.....there are always 'blow up dolls' ;-)

>
> T
>

P.Fritz

December 13th 04, 02:07 PM

"CME" > wrote in message
news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>
> "john jones" > wrote in message
> ...
>> iam single m 41 nc
>> u can email me if u
>> like to
>> tell few thimg
>
> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards and
> forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just happens to be
> one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though. lol

Nope......its because you live up in the cold north boonies ;-)

>
> Christine
>

Tiffany

December 13th 04, 08:04 PM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CME" > wrote in message
>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>
>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>> u can email me if u
>>>> like to
>>>> tell few thimg
>>>
>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards and
>>> forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just happens to be
>>> one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though. lol
>>>
>>> Christine
>>>
>>
>> Not for me, he just has to be pretty. He need not spell or speak. lol
>
> Well.....there are always 'blow up dolls' ;-)
>
>
>>

To cold.... not lifelike. Plus I would probably pop it. lol

T

Joelle

December 13th 04, 09:13 PM

Seriously though, don't ya think there is something wrong with someone who is
looking especially for a single mother?

That alone would disqualify him.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

P.Fritz

December 13th 04, 09:33 PM

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>>
>>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>>> u can email me if u
>>>>> like to
>>>>> tell few thimg
>>>>
>>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards and
>>>> forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just happens to
>>>> be one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though. lol
>>>>
>>>> Christine
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not for me, he just has to be pretty. He need not spell or speak. lol
>>
>> Well.....there are always 'blow up dolls' ;-)
>>
>>
>>>
>
> To cold.... not lifelike. Plus I would probably pop it. lol

Speaking from experience????? <heehee>

>
> T
>

Bjarki 009

December 13th 04, 09:52 PM

Joelle wrote:
>Seriously though, don't ya think there is something wrong with someone who is
looking especially for a single mother?

>That alone would disqualify him.

Gods, I sure hope not.

Being a single father who married a woman without kids, I can testify to the
nightmare of teaching somebody to be a parent. A woman who already has kids
would be a better choice. You get to see what their parenting skills are like.
If they're raising a "monster" of a child, I don't want them helping to raise
mine.

We've all seen those who can "talk the talk" but fail when it comes to "walking
the walk". Give me a "battle proven" woman any day of the week. I just always
assumed the fact I raise my kids myself, spoke volumes about the kind of person
I am. My children are my legacy. To know them is to know the kind of person I
am. I've always judges people by the children they raise.

Bjarki

"Sheesh, some people's parents!"

P.Fritz

December 13th 04, 10:54 PM

"'Kate" > wrote in message
...
> On 13 Dec 2004 21:52:41 GMT, (Bjarki 009)
> wrote:
>> I've always judges people by the children they raise.
>
> Uh oh. <looking around> Mine are a little warped. Ask the neighbors,
> their friends' parents, their doctor's and teachers, etc.
>
> BTW, I believe genetics to have something to do with behavior. I also
> think that environment can include areas outside of my jurisdiction.
> Even so... I did warp them. I like'em that way. They make me laugh
> and they sing in the car. They get that from me. :-)
>
> 'Kate

Yeah? But do they let YOU sing in the car? Mine won't LOL

>

Tiffany

December 14th 04, 03:37 AM

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> Seriously though, don't ya think there is something wrong with someone who
> is
> looking especially for a single mother?
>
> That alone would disqualify him.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

Yes it does..... that and I know it's just someone goofin'.

T

Tiffany

December 14th 04, 03:38 AM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>>>
>>>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>>>> u can email me if u
>>>>>> like to
>>>>>> tell few thimg
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards
>>>>> and forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just happens
>>>>> to be one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though. lol
>>>>>
>>>>> Christine
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not for me, he just has to be pretty. He need not spell or speak. lol
>>>
>>> Well.....there are always 'blow up dolls' ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>
>> To cold.... not lifelike. Plus I would probably pop it. lol
>
> Speaking from experience????? <heehee>
>
>>
>>

Nah.... I am to cheap to spend that kind of money on a toy. I prefer battery
operated ones anyways. heehee

T

Joelle

December 14th 04, 04:15 AM

>Being a single father who married a woman without kids, I can testify to the
>nightmare of teaching somebody to be a parent.

It is not your girlfriend or wife's job to parent YOUR kids. That's your
job...so why do you need to "teach" her anything?

I agree that dating someone who is a parent is a plus and it's difficult for
someone who is not a parent to understand, but sorry, the way of the world is
that if someone is out "looking for a single mom" red flags all over the field.

Joelle

The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Cele

December 14th 04, 05:31 AM

On 14 Dec 2004 04:15:13 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>>Being a single father who married a woman without kids, I can testify to the
>>nightmare of teaching somebody to be a parent.
>
>It is not your girlfriend or wife's job to parent YOUR kids. That's your
>job...so why do you need to "teach" her anything?

No kidding.

>I agree that dating someone who is a parent is a plus and it's difficult for
>someone who is not a parent to understand, but sorry, the way of the world is
>that if someone is out "looking for a single mom" red flags all over the field.
>
>Joelle

I totally agree.

Cele

Cele

December 14th 04, 05:31 AM

On 13 Dec 2004 21:52:41 GMT, (Bjarki 009)
wrote:

> I've always judges people by the children they raise.

Great. So if something truly horrifying happens to somebody's child,
and that child reacts to what has happened, and acts up, you just
automatically assume they're a bad parent and not a great person?

Geez.

Cele

Moonlight

December 14th 04, 09:24 AM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "'Kate" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 13 Dec 2004 21:52:41 GMT, (Bjarki 009)
> > wrote:
> >> I've always judges people by the children they raise.
> >
> > Uh oh. <looking around> Mine are a little warped. Ask the neighbors,
> > their friends' parents, their doctor's and teachers, etc.
> >
> > BTW, I believe genetics to have something to do with behavior. I also
> > think that environment can include areas outside of my jurisdiction.
> > Even so... I did warp them. I like'em that way. They make me laugh
> > and they sing in the car. They get that from me. :-)
> >
> > 'Kate
>
> Yeah? But do they let YOU sing in the car? Mine won't LOL
>

Well mine don't mind me singing, but my 7 yr old daughter corrects me when I
get the lyrics wrong! Cheeky miss is always right too. : ))

Stace

CME

December 14th 04, 11:59 PM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>
>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>> u can email me if u
>>> like to
>>> tell few thimg
>>
>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards and
>> forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just happens to be
>> one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though. lol
>
> Nope......its because you live up in the cold north boonies ;-)

I'm willing to relocate. ;)

Christine

Lisa

December 15th 04, 02:59 PM

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> >Being a single father who married a woman without kids, I can testify to
the
> >nightmare of teaching somebody to be a parent.
>
> It is not your girlfriend or wife's job to parent YOUR kids. That's your
> job...so why do you need to "teach" her anything?
>

You're not really suggesting that his wife has no voice where the children
are concerned, are you?

Lisa

> I agree that dating someone who is a parent is a plus and it's difficult
for
> someone who is not a parent to understand, but sorry, the way of the world
is
> that if someone is out "looking for a single mom" red flags all over the
field.
>
> Joelle
>
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

xkatx

December 15th 04, 03:52 PM

"'Kate" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:24:08 +1300, "Moonlight"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> "'Kate" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > On 13 Dec 2004 21:52:41 GMT, (Bjarki 009)
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> I've always judges people by the children they raise.
>>> >
>>> > Uh oh. <looking around> Mine are a little warped. Ask the neighbors,
>>> > their friends' parents, their doctor's and teachers, etc.
>>> >
>>> > BTW, I believe genetics to have something to do with behavior. I also
>>> > think that environment can include areas outside of my jurisdiction.
>>> > Even so... I did warp them. I like'em that way. They make me laugh
>>> > and they sing in the car. They get that from me. :-)
>>> >
>>> > 'Kate
>>>
>>> Yeah? But do they let YOU sing in the car? Mine won't LOL
>>>
>>
>>Well mine don't mind me singing, but my 7 yr old daughter corrects me when
>>I
>>get the lyrics wrong! Cheeky miss is always right too. : ))
>>
>>Stace
>
> Kids have special hearing. They can tell what the real words are long
> before adults figure them out.
>
> I remember one of the lines that we puzzled over. It was "With birds
> I share this lonely view" . Had to look it up. It's not like these
> are real sentances!
>
> 'Kate

Ahh! A great RHCP's song! My nearly 4 year old sings in the car, and how
he remembers the words is beyond me. He does sing along with ones that I
don't even know the words to (because they can be hard to understand) and
I've been listening to the particular song for ages.

--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet?

Joelle

December 15th 04, 04:13 PM

>You're not really suggesting that his wife has no voice where the children
>are concerned, are you?

Yes I am.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Lisa

December 15th 04, 05:58 PM

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> >You're not really suggesting that his wife has no voice where the
children
> >are concerned, are you?
>
> Yes I am.
>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

That surprises me. I see it quite differently. The children, husband and
wife are a whole, not separate. The step parent must understand that by
becoming a part of the family, they are accepting a parenting role. Would
you marry a man that would not be a part of your children's lives? Would
you marry a man that does not share your same moral values so that he too
could set an example as your children grow and learn? Would you tolerate a
husband that told you not to be involved in parenting his children?

In the above, I am not saying "you" as specifically you, Joelle. These are
just some angles that I considered to be pretty essential for me,
personally, and open up these thoughts for general discussion in a "don't
bite me" sort of way.

Lisa

Bjarki 009

December 15th 04, 06:20 PM

>Joelle wrote:
>It is not your girlfriend or wife's job to parent YOUR kids. That's your
job...so why do you need to "teach" her anything?

Any woman in my life is a role model for my children, particularly my middle
daughter. When I married my wife we hadn't lived together (long distance
relationship) and she had no children. No nieces or nephews near by either. She
had no idea how to relate to young minds. As my wife, it is indeed her "job" to
assist in the raising of all the children ... mine, hers, ours. A healthy
marriage is a partnership in all things. After all, if you don't trust your
partner what are you doing having your kids around them?

>I agree that dating someone who is a parent is a plus and it's difficult for
someone who is not a parent to understand, but sorry, the way of the world is
that if someone is out "looking for a single mom" red flags all over the field.

Caution is admirable in most all situations. But "red flag" is a "stop". A
"yellow flag" for "caution" is perhaps a better description. Perhaps they can
not have children of their own. Perhaps they have a family member who is a
single parent and understand the dynamics of that life style. Perhaps your
negativity and suspicions are based on your experiences with a step father?
Whatever the reasons, I can't agree to an automatic "red flag" just because of
a person's likes. Shall we "red flag" all people who have any preconceived
ideas of what they want in a partner?.

Bjarki

P.Fritz

December 15th 04, 07:10 PM

"CME" > wrote in message
news:V7Lvd.35944$Ya4.13458@edtnps84...
>
> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CME" > wrote in message
>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>
>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>> u can email me if u
>>>> like to
>>>> tell few thimg
>>>
>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards and
>>> forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just happens to be
>>> one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though. lol
>>
>> Nope......its because you live up in the cold north boonies ;-)
>
> I'm willing to relocate. ;)
>
> Christine

Well I am still in the cold north......just not the boonies.......but can't
wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather. :-)

>
>

December 15th 04, 10:14 PM

Lisa

December 15th 04, 11:41 PM

"Bjarki 009" > wrote in message
...
> >Joelle wrote:
> >It is not your girlfriend or wife's job to parent YOUR kids. That's your
> job...so why do you need to "teach" her anything?
>
> Any woman in my life is a role model for my children, particularly my
middle
> daughter. When I married my wife we hadn't lived together (long distance
> relationship) and she had no children. No nieces or nephews near by
either. She
> had no idea how to relate to young minds. As my wife, it is indeed her
"job" to
> assist in the raising of all the children ... mine, hers, ours. A healthy
> marriage is a partnership in all things. After all, if you don't trust
your
> partner what are you doing having your kids around them?
>

I'm with ya buddy,,,100%
LOL....it's been so long I had to actually go looking on the keyboard for
that % sign. That's still not enough motivation to go back to work tho...

> >I agree that dating someone who is a parent is a plus and it's difficult
for
> someone who is not a parent to understand, but sorry, the way of the world
is
> that if someone is out "looking for a single mom" red flags all over the
field.
>
> Caution is admirable in most all situations. But "red flag" is a "stop". A
> "yellow flag" for "caution" is perhaps a better description. Perhaps they
can
> not have children of their own. Perhaps they have a family member who is a
> single parent and understand the dynamics of that life style. Perhaps your
> negativity and suspicions are based on your experiences with a step
father?
> Whatever the reasons, I can't agree to an automatic "red flag" just
because of
> a person's likes. Shall we "red flag" all people who have any preconceived
> ideas of what they want in a partner?.
>
> Bjarki

I was single until I married for the first time at JUST TURNED (41). My
husband had never been married either. Nor had he had any kids. What's
wrong with us? Nothing. Red Flag? Nope. No one else was good enough but
me :)

Lisa

CME

December 15th 04, 11:59 PM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:V7Lvd.35944$Ya4.13458@edtnps84...
>>
>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>>
>>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>>> u can email me if u
>>>>> like to
>>>>> tell few thimg
>>>>
>>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards and
>>>> forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just happens to
>>>> be one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though. lol
>>>
>>> Nope......its because you live up in the cold north boonies ;-)
>>
>> I'm willing to relocate. ;)
>>
>> Christine
>
> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the boonies.......but
> can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather. :-)
>

Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me stop
whining about it.

Christine

Cele

December 16th 04, 01:32 AM

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:58:21 -0500, "Lisa" > wrote:

>
>"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
>> >You're not really suggesting that his wife has no voice where the
>children
>> >are concerned, are you?
>>
>> Yes I am.
>>
>> Joelle
>> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>> Augustine
>> Joelle
>
>That surprises me. I see it quite differently. The children, husband and
>wife are a whole, not separate. The step parent must understand that by
>becoming a part of the family, they are accepting a parenting role. Would
>you marry a man that would not be a part of your children's lives? Would
>you marry a man that does not share your same moral values so that he too
>could set an example as your children grow and learn? Would you tolerate a
>husband that told you not to be involved in parenting his children?
>
>In the above, I am not saying "you" as specifically you, Joelle. These are
>just some angles that I considered to be pretty essential for me,
>personally, and open up these thoughts for general discussion in a "don't
>bite me" sort of way.
>
>Lisa

I understand what you're saying, but I think Joelle's got a pretty
strong case. To a significant degree, it depends on the age of the
kids and the situation. My own daughters are 17 and 19, and have a
strong relationship with their father. Should I choose to remarry, the
man in question would need to be clear on the fact that he was *not*
in a parenting role, but rather, in a supportive adult role. Obviously
values & modeling & so forth are important, but they're important to
marriage, as well. Presumably, if you're thinking at all, you're
going to marry someone who sets a good example or you wouldn't be
choosing that person. But it's very, very dangerous ground for a step
parent to tread, to try taking on the parent's role. It's also very
arrogant, in some circumstances. There needs to be respect for the
existing or deceased parent and that parent's role in the child's
life, and there needs to be clear boundaries around the buck stopping
with the child's own parent for discipline and child rearing. That
said, of course, it's sensible for *any* adult to establish their
*own* boundaries.....with respect to themselves.

If the child is very young and has no recollection or awareness of
another parent, it may be reasonable for that stepparent to take on
the role. But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
views & styles to make it work.

Cele

Cele

December 16th 04, 01:53 AM

On 15 Dec 2004 19:01:18 GMT, (Bjarki 009)
wrote:

>>Cele wrote:
>>>Bjarki wrote:
>
>>> I've always judges people by the children they raise.
>
>>Great. So if something truly horrifying happens to somebody's child, and that
>child reacts to what has happened, and acts up, you just automatically assume
>they're a bad parent and not a great person?
>
>>Geez
>
>No. Where ever did you get that idea? I wrote nothing of the kind.

You wrote that you judge people by the kind of children they raise.
You didn't elaborate. You basically stated that:
state of kids=worth of parent.

>The measure of a person is not what happens to them, but how they handle it.

Maybe. Or maybe it's a measure of how much has happened to them, how
recently, how much support they've got, what stage in their life their
at, how their health is, etc. etc. etc.

>I would never expect a child who found a murdered parent to have the same life
>views as one who didn't. Therefore they will act differently.

This is true. They'd act differently anyway. People are different.
They come into the world different. You're clearly talking nature vs.
nurture, and I don't accept the notion that nurture is everything.
Nature does plenty. Anyone who's raised two kids can see that. They
come into the world hardwired differently, and from the very start,
their experiences therefore impact them differently.

>But how each child reacts to the events in their lives, does reflect on the
>type of upbringing they have had.

Maybe, in part. Maybe not. Have you heard of "A Child Called It"? The
author's childhood was cited as the second worst case of child abuse
in California history. Absolutely *unspeakable* things were done to
him by his mother, while his father sat by and did nothing and his
siblings were egged on and exhorted to target him further. Yet he is a
successful author, motivational speaker, and parent. Going on his
success as a person, it'd be in keeping with your stated belief that
his parenting, or upbringing, was worthy of being "judged" (your word)
positive.

>Otherwise, all children who had the same
>experiences would behave the same ways.

No. Children are at least as heavily influenced by their innate
biology as by the events in their lives. It is much more likely to be
biology than nurture that explains why some children of abuse become
dysfunctional and abusive themselves, and others become capable and
nurturing people and parents. And if biology has that much influence
in the direction of successful coping with parental abuse, then it's
reasonable to expect that it has as heavy an influence on dealing with
other aspects of one's life.

>This is not the case. Additional
>stimuli that each child receives while growing up adds to their personality.

Which personality pre-exists.

>And therefore how they cope with life. After all, not all traumatized children
>exhibit criminal/neurotic/psychotic personalities.

Pretty well all children exhibit distress in response to trauma *at
some point* and *in some degree* following the event(s). Take a look
at a traumatised child at one time, at another time, and at a third
time, and you'll likely see three different 'reactions' to the same
event, by the same child, especially if the three snapshots are
somewhat distant from each other temporally. What seems 'neurotic' at
one moment can result in greater health down the line. Then again,
some children respond to certain types of trauma with control moves
involving excessive studying and room tidying, and appear to be coping
beautifully, yet lose the plot totally five or ten or twenty years
down the line.

I wish human recovery from trauma was as simple as competent, caring
parenting, but it's not.

>So while genetics (such as chemical imbalances) is an important piece in
>determining a child's behavior, mental conditioning is a bigger one.

That's been debated for many years. If you've got conclusive evidence,
by all means provide it. Otherwise, that's opinion only. I disagree. I
think the respective impact of nature versus nurture is complex and
entwined in a different way for each person.

>So yes, a parent that makes sure their child has the stimuli for the best
>balanced personality possible will get more respect from me.

Completely different statement. That would be judging a person by
their commitment to and capacity for parenting. An entirely different
proposition from judging a person by their children. I like it a lot
better. At least, if it involves passing judgement, it involves
passing judgement on an an individual based on what the *same
individual* actually *does*.

> They've taken the
>steps to earn it. This doesn't mean a better behaved child's parents get more
>respect. Their child's stimuli may have been the best imaginable. What has been
>accomplished with what's available is the true measure.

Nope. What's been *done* is the true measure. The commitment, energy,
and skill applied to the task tells us something about the parent. The
success of their efforts with any given child does not.
>
>Bjarki

Cele

December 16th 04, 02:34 AM

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:32:47 GMT, Cele > wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:58:21 -0500, "Lisa" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
>>> >You're not really suggesting that his wife has no voice where the
>>children
>>> >are concerned, are you?
>>>
>>> Yes I am.
>>>
>>> Joelle
>>> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>>> Augustine
>>> Joelle
>>
>>That surprises me. I see it quite differently. The children, husband and
>>wife are a whole, not separate. The step parent must understand that by
>>becoming a part of the family, they are accepting a parenting role. Would
>>you marry a man that would not be a part of your children's lives? Would
>>you marry a man that does not share your same moral values so that he too
>>could set an example as your children grow and learn? Would you tolerate a
>>husband that told you not to be involved in parenting his children?
>>
>>In the above, I am not saying "you" as specifically you, Joelle. These are
>>just some angles that I considered to be pretty essential for me,
>>personally, and open up these thoughts for general discussion in a "don't
>>bite me" sort of way.
>>
>>Lisa
>
>I understand what you're saying, but I think Joelle's got a pretty
>strong case. To a significant degree, it depends on the age of the
>kids and the situation. My own daughters are 17 and 19, and have a
>strong relationship with their father. Should I choose to remarry, the
>man in question would need to be clear on the fact that he was *not*
>in a parenting role, but rather, in a supportive adult role. Obviously
>values & modeling & so forth are important, but they're important to
>marriage, as well. Presumably, if you're thinking at all, you're
>going to marry someone who sets a good example or you wouldn't be
>choosing that person. But it's very, very dangerous ground for a step
>parent to tread, to try taking on the parent's role. It's also very
>arrogant, in some circumstances. There needs to be respect for the
>existing or deceased parent and that parent's role in the child's
>life, and there needs to be clear boundaries around the buck stopping
>with the child's own parent for discipline and child rearing. That
>said, of course, it's sensible for *any* adult to establish their
>*own* boundaries.....with respect to themselves.

With all due respect, your kids are practically grown. It's more an
issue for Paul's son than for your daughters. You'll be a parent
whether either of you like it or not.
>
>If the child is very young and has no recollection or awareness of
>another parent, it may be reasonable for that stepparent to take on
>the role. But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
>views & styles to make it work.

And isn't that the point.

lm

December 16th 04, 02:36 AM

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:41:04 -0500, "Lisa" > wrote:

>
>I was single until I married for the first time at JUST TURNED (41). My
>husband had never been married either. Nor had he had any kids. What's
>wrong with us? Nothing. Red Flag? Nope. No one else was good enough but
>me :)

Heheh looks like you two are still honeymooning :-)

lm

Cele

December 16th 04, 03:22 AM

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 02:34:45 GMT, lm >
wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:32:47 GMT, Cele > wrote:

>>I understand what you're saying, but I think Joelle's got a pretty
>>strong case. To a significant degree, it depends on the age of the
>>kids and the situation. My own daughters are 17 and 19, and have a
>>strong relationship with their father. Should I choose to remarry, the
>>man in question would need to be clear on the fact that he was *not*
>>in a parenting role, but rather, in a supportive adult role. Obviously
>>values & modeling & so forth are important, but they're important to
>>marriage, as well. Presumably, if you're thinking at all, you're
>>going to marry someone who sets a good example or you wouldn't be
>>choosing that person. But it's very, very dangerous ground for a step
>>parent to tread, to try taking on the parent's role. It's also very
>>arrogant, in some circumstances. There needs to be respect for the
>>existing or deceased parent and that parent's role in the child's
>>life, and there needs to be clear boundaries around the buck stopping
>>with the child's own parent for discipline and child rearing. That
>>said, of course, it's sensible for *any* adult to establish their
>>*own* boundaries.....with respect to themselves.
>
>With all due respect, your kids are practically grown.

That's right. But the one is still at home. And to step in as a parent
with one that age would be nuts. I believe I mentioned that age makes
a difference.

> It's more an
>issue for Paul's son than for your daughters. You'll be a parent
>whether either of you like it or not.

I'll be an adult in the home who cares about him and as he gains
trust, I'll become more involved. But I'll respect *his* and *Paul's*
relationship as the primary one WRT parenting. And I'll be a parent to
the degree that they both are comfortable...which likely will increase
over time, but only if trust is built. You don't just walk in and
start parenting other people's kids.

>>If the child is very young and has no recollection or awareness of
>>another parent, it may be reasonable for that stepparent to take on
>>the role. But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
>>views & styles to make it work.
>
>And isn't that the point.
>
>lm
I expect it wasn't yours. But it was one of mine. :-)

Cele

Cele

December 16th 04, 03:22 AM

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:53:51 GMT, Cele > wrote:

>Maybe. Or maybe it's a measure of how much has happened to them, how
>recently, how much support they've got, what stage in their life their

^^^
>at, how their health is, etc. etc. etc.

Ah, ****, I need a holiday. What I meant was, 'they're'. I'll be fine.
LOL

Cele

L L

December 16th 04, 03:29 AM

hey tiff i cant spell but im pretty lol

http://community.webtv.net/guestpet2003/guestpet
http://community.webtv.net/guestpet2003/dec29webpage2003

Tiffany

December 16th 04, 01:22 PM

ohhh tantalizing...... when I get a free moment, I will look at your sites.
lol

T
"L L" > wrote in message
...
> hey tiff i cant spell but im pretty lol
>
> http://community.webtv.net/guestpet2003/guestpet
> http://community.webtv.net/guestpet2003/dec29webpage2003
>

December 16th 04, 02:03 PM

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 03:22:50 GMT, Cele > wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 02:34:45 GMT, lm >
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:32:47 GMT, Cele > wrote:
>
>>>I understand what you're saying, but I think Joelle's got a pretty
>>>strong case. To a significant degree, it depends on the age of the
>>>kids and the situation. My own daughters are 17 and 19, and have a
>>>strong relationship with their father. Should I choose to remarry, the
>>>man in question would need to be clear on the fact that he was *not*
>>>in a parenting role, but rather, in a supportive adult role. Obviously
>>>values & modeling & so forth are important, but they're important to
>>>marriage, as well. Presumably, if you're thinking at all, you're
>>>going to marry someone who sets a good example or you wouldn't be
>>>choosing that person. But it's very, very dangerous ground for a step
>>>parent to tread, to try taking on the parent's role. It's also very
>>>arrogant, in some circumstances. There needs to be respect for the
>>>existing or deceased parent and that parent's role in the child's
>>>life, and there needs to be clear boundaries around the buck stopping
>>>with the child's own parent for discipline and child rearing. That
>>>said, of course, it's sensible for *any* adult to establish their
>>>*own* boundaries.....with respect to themselves.
>>
>>With all due respect, your kids are practically grown.
>
>That's right. But the one is still at home. And to step in as a parent
>with one that age would be nuts. I believe I mentioned that age makes
>a difference.

Your post said that Joelle's point was a good one, that "his wife has
no voice where the children are concerned." Yet your paragraphs don't
really say that, they say that the amount of parenting involved
depends on age, relationship, time together, etc. All reasonable
things, and none of them appear to me to be in agreement with "his
wife has no voice where the children are concerned." Am I misreading?

>
>> It's more an
>>issue for Paul's son than for your daughters. You'll be a parent
>>whether either of you like it or not.
>
>I'll be an adult in the home who cares about him and as he gains
>trust, I'll become more involved. But I'll respect *his* and *Paul's*
>relationship as the primary one WRT parenting. And I'll be a parent to
>the degree that they both are comfortable...which likely will increase
>over time, but only if trust is built. You don't just walk in and
>start parenting other people's kids.

Of course you don't, and it will be harder for you guys than for
people who are local to each other and get to know the kids gradually.
My partner and I went through that as well, and with the biological
father in the picture too. It works quite well the way you describe,
and the idea of my husband having "no voice where the children
are concerned" is ludicrous.

>
>>>If the child is very young and has no recollection or awareness of
>>>another parent, it may be reasonable for that stepparent to take on
>>>the role. But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
>>>views & styles to make it work.
>>
>>And isn't that the point.
>>
>I expect it wasn't yours. But it was one of mine. :-)

Of course it was my point. I said this to Lisa: "Nobody should get
married -- whether there are existing kids or not -- if they don't
share the same basic beliefs regarding
parenting/discipline/values/morals/etc."

lm

P.Fritz

December 16th 04, 03:28 PM

"CME" > wrote in message
news:vd4wd.31229$eb3.14125@clgrps13...
>
> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CME" > wrote in message
>> news:V7Lvd.35944$Ya4.13458@edtnps84...
>>>
>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>>>
>>>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>>>> u can email me if u
>>>>>> like to
>>>>>> tell few thimg
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards
>>>>> and forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just happens
>>>>> to be one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though. lol
>>>>
>>>> Nope......its because you live up in the cold north boonies ;-)
>>>
>>> I'm willing to relocate. ;)
>>>
>>> Christine
>>
>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the boonies.......but
>> can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather. :-)
>>
>
> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me stop
> whining about it.

You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As long as
I'm paying right LOL

>
> Christine
>

Lisa

December 16th 04, 05:33 PM

"'Kate" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:41:04 -0500, "Lisa" > wrote:
>
> >I was single until I married for the first time at JUST TURNED (41). My
> >husband had never been married either. Nor had he had any kids. What's
> >wrong with us? Nothing. Red Flag? Nope. No one else was good enough
but
> >me :)
> >
> >Lisa
>
> Awwwww... that really is sweet. <big smile> Congratulations again.
> I hope your wedidng was everything you expected and more. The place
> you booked was beautiful.
>
> 'Kate
>

Thanks Kate. It was the wedding that I had always dreamed of. Everyone in
attendance had an absolutely wonderful time, it was very romantic and
elegant.

I'm a lucky girl :)

Lisa

CME

December 16th 04, 07:39 PM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:vd4wd.31229$eb3.14125@clgrps13...
>>
>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>> news:V7Lvd.35944$Ya4.13458@edtnps84...
>>>>
>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>>>>> u can email me if u
>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>> tell few thimg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards
>>>>>> and forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just
>>>>>> happens to be one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single though.
>>>>>> lol
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope......its because you live up in the cold north boonies ;-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm willing to relocate. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Christine
>>>
>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the boonies.......but
>>> can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather. :-)
>>>
>>
>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me stop
>> whining about it.
>
> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As long as
> I'm paying right LOL
>
>>
>> Christine

LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is gone. ~sigh~

Christine

Lisa

December 16th 04, 07:55 PM

"'Kate" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:58:21 -0500, "Lisa" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Joelle" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> >You're not really suggesting that his wife has no voice where the
> >children
> >> >are concerned, are you?
> >>
> >> Yes I am.
> >>
> >> Joelle
> >> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> >> Augustine
> >> Joelle
> >
> >That surprises me. I see it quite differently. The children, husband
and
> >wife are a whole, not separate. The step parent must understand that by
> >becoming a part of the family, they are accepting a parenting role.
Would
> >you marry a man that would not be a part of your children's lives? Would
> >you marry a man that does not share your same moral values so that he too
> >could set an example as your children grow and learn? Would you tolerate
a
> >husband that told you not to be involved in parenting his children?
> >
> >In the above, I am not saying "you" as specifically you, Joelle. These
are
> >just some angles that I considered to be pretty essential for me,
> >personally, and open up these thoughts for general discussion in a "don't
> >bite me" sort of way.
> >
> >Lisa
>
> From what I recently read on blending families, at first, the bio
> parent should take the lead WRT discipline, rules, etc. It is the job
> of the bio parent to make room (emotionally, physically, mentally) for
> the new spouse. Of course, disrespect should never be tolerated at
> any time.
>
> The new spouse should be patient while earning the privilege to
> co-parent the children. The bio parent's job is to, again, let the new
> spouse into the family, to teach the "rules" and how he or she wants
> his/her children parented. New spouses should be given a voice but,
> like with two bio parent households, disagreements between "parents"
> should be minimized in front of the children. The younger the
> children, the easier it is for them to accept the new spouse as a
> parent. Teens may never accept the new spouse as a step parent. A
> team approach may work better with teens. Step parents who try to buy
> affection and ingratiate themselves with the children to undermine the
> bio parent should be flogged. Ok, maybe not flogged but that
> shouldn't be allowed.
>
> That's it in a nutshell. I've probably left out a LOT. Binuclear
> families, when they work, provide children with four parents, 8
> grandparents, more half and full siblings... it's really quite neat.
> Granted, they take work and if the blending doesn't happen, it can be
> catastrophic but when that's the only other way (single or binuclear)
> to assemble a family after divorce or widowhood, it's good to know
> that there are some positives.
>
> 'Kate
>

HOLY CRAP! There's a rulebook now? Oy.

Lisa

P.Fritz

December 16th 04, 08:06 PM

"CME" > wrote in message
news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
>
> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CME" > wrote in message
>> news:vd4wd.31229$eb3.14125@clgrps13...
>>>
>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>> news:V7Lvd.35944$Ya4.13458@edtnps84...
>>>>>
>>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>>>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>>>>>> u can email me if u
>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>> tell few thimg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards
>>>>>>> and forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just
>>>>>>> happens to be one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single
>>>>>>> though. lol
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope......its because you live up in the cold north boonies ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm willing to relocate. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> Christine
>>>>
>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the boonies.......but
>>>> can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather. :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me stop
>>> whining about it.
>>
>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As long as
>> I'm paying right LOL
>>
>>>
>>> Christine
>
> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is gone. ~sigh~

DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about it?
<heehee>

>
> Christine
>

Joelle

December 16th 04, 08:39 PM

>The step parent must understand that by
>becoming a part of the family, they are accepting a parenting role

I totally disagree. I think its a big mistake to assume that marrying someone
gives you parental rights and responsiblities.

>Would
>you marry a man that would not be a part of your children's lives?

You can be a part of a child's life without being the parent. Grandparents,
aunts, uncles, sisters, neighbors, coaches, friends, teachers, all do it. But
they are NOT parents.

>Would
>you marry a man that does not share your same moral values so that he too
>could set an example as your children grow and learn?

Of course not. What does that have to do with parenting?

>Would you tolerate a
>husband that told you not to be involved in parenting his children

I would expect that to be the arrangement.

I would expect his kids to be polite to me and if they weren't, I probably
wouldn't marry him to begin with.

I heard a talk show host (not Dr. Laura) once say a step parents job is to be a
good hostess/host and a good friend and I agree with that.

Now if you marry someone with a kid under 2, that's a little different,
probably.

Joelle

The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Joelle

December 16th 04, 08:48 PM

>Any woman in my life is a role model for my children, particularly my middle
>daughter.

I don't know why people keep throwing up "role model" when I say step parents
are not parents. Not all role models are parents.

>As my wife, it is indeed her "job" to
>assist in the raising of all the children ... mine, hers, ours

Nope, not her job to raise your kids. Be supportive, good role model, if not
back you up, at least shut up ...but raise your kids. Nope.

> After all, if you don't trust your
>partner what are you doing having your kids around them?

It has nothing to do with trust. It has to do with roles.

>Caution is admirable in most all situations. But "red flag" is a "stop". A
>"yellow flag" for "caution" is perhaps a better description

Well this started with a silly post and this guy had all kinds of stops to
begin with - but to say "I want a single mother"...that's a red flag. Stop.
End of discussion.

>Perhaps they can
>not have children of their own.

So they want my children? Ick.

>Perhaps they have a family member who is a
>single parent and understand the dynamics of that life style

Why look for only a single mom?

> Perhaps your
>negativity and suspicions are based on your experiences with a step father?

No step fathers...but I do know that pediphiles target single mothers.

>Shall we "red flag" all people who have any preconceived
>ideas of what they want in a partner?.

So it's okay for you to have a preconcieved notion for what you want in a
partner (single parent) but I can't have any notions like - I don't want
someone who is hunting single moms?

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Tiffany

December 16th 04, 08:52 PM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
>>
>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the boonies.......but
>>>>> can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me stop
>>>> whining about it.
>>>
>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As long
>>> as I'm paying right LOL
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christine
>>
>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is gone.
>> ~sigh~
>
> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about it?
> <heehee>
>
>>

Don't kill the romance Paul! Pay up! She will get over it as soon as you
romance her in person. ;)

T

P.Fritz

December 16th 04, 09:03 PM

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CME" > wrote in message
>> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
>>>
>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the boonies.......but
>>>>>> can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me stop
>>>>> whining about it.
>>>>
>>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As long
>>>> as I'm paying right LOL
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Christine
>>>
>>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is gone.
>>> ~sigh~
>>
>> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about it?
>> <heehee>
>>
>>>
>
>
> Don't kill the romance Paul! Pay up! She will get over it as soon as you
> romance her in person. ;)

Romance wasn't necessaily what came to mind ;-)

>
> T
>

Joelle

December 16th 04, 09:07 PM

> But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
>>views & styles to make it work.
>
>And isn't that the point.
>

Okay, now i'm thinking some of you that haven't been married or had bad
marraiges maybe think that a good marraige parents agree about childrraising
all the time? Let me disabuse you of that fantasy.

A couple can be compatible, share values, blah blah blah and still disagree
about "Should we let her pierce her ears, buy that game, ect?" When you are
both the parents, you have to work that out, compromise. You aren't going to
agree on everything. Someone is going to have to give in.

When a step parent is involved, I'm saying ONE PERSON makes those decisions,
and it's not the step parent. The parent decides if she gets to wear that
shirt to the dance, not the step parent. I don't think agreeing on the shirt
should be a requirement for getting married, I think agreeing WHO decides about
the shirt is a requirment for getting married.

And I also believe discipline is the parents job. You earn the right to
discipline a child by virtue of having been there their whole life...not by
having sex with their mother or father.

Now I'm getting deja vue and wondering if I ought to be shining up those KGB
boots...

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

CME

December 17th 04, 12:56 AM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "CME" > wrote in message
> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
>>
>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>> news:vd4wd.31229$eb3.14125@clgrps13...
>>>>
>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>>> news:V7Lvd.35944$Ya4.13458@edtnps84...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>>>>>>> u can email me if u
>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>> tell few thimg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has standards
>>>>>>>> and forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just
>>>>>>>> happens to be one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single
>>>>>>>> though. lol
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope......its because you live up in the cold north boonies ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm willing to relocate. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christine
>>>>>
>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the boonies.......but
>>>>> can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me stop
>>>> whining about it.
>>>
>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As long
>>> as I'm paying right LOL
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christine
>>
>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is gone.
>> ~sigh~
>
> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about it?
> <heehee>
>
>>
>> Christine

Crap I walked right into that one. What's a girl gotta do to get some
action in the Caribbean around here???? Sheesh.

Christine

December 17th 04, 03:25 AM

On 16 Dec 2004 21:07:55 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>> But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
>>>views & styles to make it work.
>>
>>And isn't that the point.
>>
>
>Okay, now i'm thinking some of you that haven't been married or had bad
>marraiges maybe think that a good marraige parents agree about childrraising
>all the time? Let me disabuse you of that fantasy.

Oh yeah, because you're the only one who did it right. How could we
have forgotten.

>A couple can be compatible, share values, blah blah blah and still disagree
>about "Should we let her pierce her ears, buy that game, ect?" When you are
>both the parents, you have to work that out, compromise. You aren't going to
>agree on everything. Someone is going to have to give in.
>
>When a step parent is involved, I'm saying ONE PERSON makes those decisions,
>and it's not the step parent.

And that's where you're wrong. The one person is the one who feels
more strongly about that particular issue, or who is most reasonable
about that particular issue, or who has the most clear perspective
about that particular issue, or who is the most educated on that
particular issue, or etc. Sometimes it's the stepparent, sometimes
it's the parent. Most often, especially at the beginning but easily
long into the marriage, it will be the parent, but that's because the
parent has a head start knowing the friends, being involved in the
school, etc.

The parent decides if she gets to wear that
>shirt to the dance, not the step parent. I don't think agreeing on the shirt
>should be a requirement for getting married, I think agreeing WHO decides about
>the shirt is a requirment for getting married.
>
>And I also believe discipline is the parents job. You earn the right to
>discipline a child by virtue of having been there their whole life...not by
>having sex with their mother or father.

Discipline is the parent's job *if* the discipline the parent employs
is working. Many single parents let up on discipline out of guilt.
Often the stepparent has a better perspective, as he/she can see where
the parent is being inconsistent.

lm

Tiffany

December 17th 04, 03:53 AM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
>>>>
>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the
>>>>>>> boonies.......but can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather.
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me
>>>>>> stop whining about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As long
>>>>> as I'm paying right LOL
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christine
>>>>
>>>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is gone.
>>>> ~sigh~
>>>
>>> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about it?
>>> <heehee>
>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> Don't kill the romance Paul! Pay up! She will get over it as soon as you
>> romance her in person. ;)
>
> Romance wasn't necessaily what came to mind ;-)
>
>>
Romance will get you to where you want to be! lol

T

Tiffany

December 17th 04, 03:54 AM

P. Fritz

December 17th 04, 11:30 AM

"CME" > wrote in message
news:W8qwd.44091$eb3.16096@clgrps13...
>
> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "CME" > wrote in message
>> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
>>>
>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>> news:vd4wd.31229$eb3.14125@clgrps13...
>>>>>
>>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>>>> news:V7Lvd.35944$Ya4.13458@edtnps84...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:sOIud.9727$eb3.4717@clgrps13...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "john jones" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>> iam single m 41 nc
>>>>>>>>>> u can email me if u
>>>>>>>>>> like to
>>>>>>>>>> tell few thimg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey I don't know about other single Moms but this one has
standards
>>>>>>>>> and forming complete sentences along with proper spelling just
>>>>>>>>> happens to be one of them. Hmm could be why I'm still single
>>>>>>>>> though. lol
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope......its because you live up in the cold north boonies
;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm willing to relocate. ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the
boonies.......but
>>>>>> can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me
stop
>>>>> whining about it.
>>>>
>>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As
long
>>>> as I'm paying right LOL
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Christine
>>>
>>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is gone.
>>> ~sigh~
>>
>> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about it?
>> <heehee>
>>
>>>
>>> Christine
>
> Crap I walked right into that one. What's a girl gotta do to get some
> action in the Caribbean around here???? Sheesh.

(Biting my tongue.......must not respond.......mhmfmmfmmmfmfmfm)

That would have been like shooting fish in a barrel LOL

>
> Christine
>
>

P. Fritz

December 17th 04, 11:33 AM

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>>> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
>>>>>
>>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the
>>>>>>>> boonies.......but can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather.
>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me
>>>>>>> stop whining about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As
long
>>>>>> as I'm paying right LOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christine
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is gone.
>>>>> ~sigh~
>>>>
>>>> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about
it?
>>>> <heehee>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't kill the romance Paul! Pay up! She will get over it as soon as
you
>>> romance her in person. ;)
>>
>> Romance wasn't necessaily what came to mind ;-)
>>
>>>
> Romance will get you to where you want to be! lol

So will 3 or 4 adult
beverages......................................(jo king!!!!!)

>
> T
>
>
>

Joelle

December 17th 04, 01:17 PM

>>When a step parent is involved, I'm saying ONE PERSON makes those decisions,
>
>>and it's not the step parent.

>And that's where you're wrong.

Okay. If you want to do it that way. I'm not wrong though.

J.
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Cele

December 17th 04, 01:52 PM

On 16 Dec 2004 21:07:55 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>> But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
>>>views & styles to make it work.
>>
>>And isn't that the point.
>>
>
>Okay, now i'm thinking some of you that haven't been married or had bad
>marraiges maybe think that a good marraige parents agree about childrraising
>all the time? Let me disabuse you of that fantasy.

Nope. 'Compatible' doesn't mean 'identical'.

>A couple can be compatible, share values, blah blah blah and still disagree
>about "Should we let her pierce her ears, buy that game, ect?" When you are
>both the parents, you have to work that out, compromise. You aren't going to
>agree on everything. Someone is going to have to give in.

That's true. It's true when two caring parents are apart, also.

>When a step parent is involved, I'm saying ONE PERSON makes those decisions,
>and it's not the step parent. The parent decides if she gets to wear that
>shirt to the dance, not the step parent. I don't think agreeing on the shirt
>should be a requirement for getting married, I think agreeing WHO decides about
>the shirt is a requirment for getting married.

I'm saying that I basically agree, although there's some wiggle room
there for people who begin stepparenting very young kids, *assuming*
that works for the parent. Essentially, that level of trust in such a
case is likely to be conferred by the parent *if* there're highly
compatible styles. Which, hopefully, there will be, as they got
married and all.

>And I also believe discipline is the parents job. You earn the right to
>discipline a child by virtue of having been there their whole life...not by
>having sex with their mother or father.

Mmmmm. Better tell that to all of us teachers...we go around
disciplining other people's children all the time!

Seriously, we part company here. I believe you earn the right to
discipline a child by virtue of having a trust relationship with the
child and parent. After all, in stepfamilies, it's entirely possible
that a parent would leave a child with a stepparent while off on a
business trip or something. The child wouldn't be entirely without
discipline during that time, if it was required.

I think the thing is that the step parent would *defer* to the parent
in matters of significance where there was disagreement. And hopefully
that disagreement would be dealt with behind closed doors, just as
with two natural parents.

>Now I'm getting deja vue and wondering if I ought to be shining up those KGB
>boots...

Surely you're too busy with Christmas shopping? I've got a plane to
catch, myself....

Cele

Joelle

December 17th 04, 02:21 PM

>I'm saying that I basically agree, although there's some wiggle room
>there for people who begin stepparenting very young kids

I agree, because the longer you are with a kid, the more you earn the right to
take the parental role...so a step parent is going to be more of a parent to a
younger child...

>>And I also believe discipline is the parents job.

>Mmmmm. Better tell that to all of us teachers...we go around
>disciplining other people's children all the time!

Well maybe i'm thinking of different levels of discipline...obviously even a
baby sitter has certain disciplining priveledges...

>Seriously, we part company here. I believe you earn the right to
>discipline a child by virtue of having a trust relationship with the
>child and parent

Well I don't know if we are so far apart, but I still think the philosophy of
discipline is set by the parent, the responsiblity is the parents and the older
the children are, the smoother everything will go if that is left up to the
parent.

>I think the thing is that the step parent would *defer* to the parent
>in matters of significance where there was disagreement.

Yes. That's what I'm saying.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Tiffany

December 17th 04, 03:28 PM

"P. Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>>
> >>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>>
> >>>> "CME" > wrote in message
> >>>> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the
> >>>>>>>> boonies.......but can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree weather.
> >>>>>>>> :-)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear me
> >>>>>>> stop whining about it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As
> long
> >>>>>> as I'm paying right LOL
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Christine
> >>>>>
> >>>>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is gone.
> >>>>> ~sigh~
> >>>>
> >>>> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about
> it?
> >>>> <heehee>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Don't kill the romance Paul! Pay up! She will get over it as soon as
> you
> >>> romance her in person. ;)
> >>
> >> Romance wasn't necessaily what came to mind ;-)
> >>
> >>>
> > Romance will get you to where you want to be! lol
>
> So will 3 or 4 adult
> beverages......................................(jo king!!!!!)
>
> >

You know that is not a joke for most! lol

T

Lisa

December 17th 04, 03:49 PM

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "P. Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >>
> > >> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> > >> ...
> > >>>
> > >>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> > >>> ...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> "CME" > wrote in message
> > >>>> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
> > >>>>> ...
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the
> > >>>>>>>> boonies.......but can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree
weather.
> > >>>>>>>> :-)
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear
me
> > >>>>>>> stop whining about it.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger?
As
> > long
> > >>>>>> as I'm paying right LOL
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Christine
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is
gone.
> > >>>>> ~sigh~
> > >>>>
> > >>>> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about
> > it?
> > >>>> <heehee>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Don't kill the romance Paul! Pay up! She will get over it as soon
as
> > you
> > >>> romance her in person. ;)
> > >>
> > >> Romance wasn't necessaily what came to mind ;-)
> > >>
> > >>>
> > > Romance will get you to where you want to be! lol
> >
> > So will 3 or 4 adult
> > beverages......................................(jo king!!!!!)
> >
> > >
>
>
> You know that is not a joke for most! lol
>
> T
>
>

It is to me,,,,,,I'm not a cheap date :)

Lisa

Cele

December 17th 04, 04:07 PM

On 17 Dec 2004 14:21:41 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

[snip]

>>I think the thing is that the step parent would *defer* to the parent
>>in matters of significance where there was disagreement.
>
>Yes. That's what I'm saying.

Yup, looks like we're in agreement. Did you have a spare set of those
boots, then? I'm a size 8....

Cele

P.Fritz

December 17th 04, 04:19 PM

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "P. Fritz" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>>
>> >>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>> >>> ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>> >>>> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>> >>>>> ...
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the
>> >>>>>>>> boonies.......but can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree
>> weather.
>> >>>>>>>> :-)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear
>> me
>> >>>>>>> stop whining about it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger? As
>> long
>> >>>>>> as I'm paying right LOL
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Christine
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is
>> gone.
>> >>>>> ~sigh~
>> >>>>
>> >>>> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about
>> it?
>> >>>> <heehee>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Don't kill the romance Paul! Pay up! She will get over it as soon as
>> you
>> >>> romance her in person. ;)
>> >>
>> >> Romance wasn't necessaily what came to mind ;-)
>> >>
>> >>>
>> > Romance will get you to where you want to be! lol
>>
>> So will 3 or 4 adult
>> beverages......................................(jo king!!!!!)
>>
>> >
>
>
> You know that is not a joke for most! lol

So do you want to meet for a drink? or two? or 3? <heehee>

>
> T
>

December 17th 04, 04:28 PM

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:03:14 GMT, lm >
wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 03:22:50 GMT, Cele > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 02:34:45 GMT, lm >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:32:47 GMT, Cele > wrote:
>>
>>>>I understand what you're saying, but I think Joelle's got a pretty
>>>>strong case. To a significant degree, it depends on the age of the
>>>>kids and the situation. My own daughters are 17 and 19, and have a
>>>>strong relationship with their father. Should I choose to remarry, the
>>>>man in question would need to be clear on the fact that he was *not*
>>>>in a parenting role, but rather, in a supportive adult role. Obviously
>>>>values & modeling & so forth are important, but they're important to
>>>>marriage, as well. Presumably, if you're thinking at all, you're
>>>>going to marry someone who sets a good example or you wouldn't be
>>>>choosing that person. But it's very, very dangerous ground for a step
>>>>parent to tread, to try taking on the parent's role. It's also very
>>>>arrogant, in some circumstances. There needs to be respect for the
>>>>existing or deceased parent and that parent's role in the child's
>>>>life, and there needs to be clear boundaries around the buck stopping
>>>>with the child's own parent for discipline and child rearing. That
>>>>said, of course, it's sensible for *any* adult to establish their
>>>>*own* boundaries.....with respect to themselves.
>>>
>>>With all due respect, your kids are practically grown.
>>
>>That's right. But the one is still at home. And to step in as a parent
>>with one that age would be nuts. I believe I mentioned that age makes
>>a difference.
>
>Your post said that Joelle's point was a good one, that "his wife has
>no voice where the children are concerned." Yet your paragraphs don't
>really say that, they say that the amount of parenting involved
>depends on age, relationship, time together, etc. All reasonable
>things, and none of them appear to me to be in agreement with "his
>wife has no voice where the children are concerned." Am I misreading?
>
>>
>>> It's more an
>>>issue for Paul's son than for your daughters. You'll be a parent
>>>whether either of you like it or not.
>>
>>I'll be an adult in the home who cares about him and as he gains
>>trust, I'll become more involved. But I'll respect *his* and *Paul's*
>>relationship as the primary one WRT parenting. And I'll be a parent to
>>the degree that they both are comfortable...which likely will increase
>>over time, but only if trust is built. You don't just walk in and
>>start parenting other people's kids.
>
>Of course you don't, and it will be harder for you guys than for
>people who are local to each other and get to know the kids gradually.
>My partner and I went through that as well, and with the biological
>father in the picture too. It works quite well the way you describe,
>and the idea of my husband having "no voice where the children
>are concerned" is ludicrous.
>
>>
>>>>If the child is very young and has no recollection or awareness of
>>>>another parent, it may be reasonable for that stepparent to take on
>>>>the role. But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
>>>>views & styles to make it work.
>>>
>>>And isn't that the point.
>>>
>>I expect it wasn't yours. But it was one of mine. :-)
>
>Of course it was my point. I said this to Lisa: "Nobody should get
>married -- whether there are existing kids or not -- if they don't
>share the same basic beliefs regarding
>parenting/discipline/values/morals/etc."
>
>lm

Cele?

lm

Tiffany

December 17th 04, 08:13 PM

"P.Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "P. Fritz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> >
>>> > "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> >>
>>> >> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
>>> >> ...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>> >>> ...
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> "CME" > wrote in message
>>> >>>> news:5wlwd.63$0C1.34@edtnps91...
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> "P.Fritz" > wrote in message
>>> >>>>> ...
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Well I am still in the cold north......just not the
>>> >>>>>>>> boonies.......but can't wait for the 27th and 80 degree
>>> weather.
>>> >>>>>>>> :-)
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Yeah I think you need to take me with you, if not just to hear
>>> me
>>> >>>>>>> stop whining about it.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> You want to share a room for a week with a complete stranger?
>>> As long
>>> >>>>>> as I'm paying right LOL
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Christine
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> LOL Busted! When you put it like that though, the romance is
>>> gone.
>>> >>>>> ~sigh~
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> DAMN! So if you paid your own way, would you feel better about
>>> it?
>>> >>>> <heehee>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Don't kill the romance Paul! Pay up! She will get over it as soon
>>> as you
>>> >>> romance her in person. ;)
>>> >>
>>> >> Romance wasn't necessaily what came to mind ;-)
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> > Romance will get you to where you want to be! lol
>>>
>>> So will 3 or 4 adult
>>> beverages......................................(jo king!!!!!)
>>>
>>> >
>>
>>
>> You know that is not a joke for most! lol
>
> So do you want to meet for a drink? or two? or 3? <heehee>
>
>>
>> T
>>
>
>

Honey, it wouldn't take any drinks for me to be with you! ;)

T

steveb

December 17th 04, 11:19 PM

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 03:25:48 GMT, lm >
wrote:

>>And I also believe discipline is the parents job. You earn the right to
>>discipline a child by virtue of having been there their whole life...not by
>>having sex with their mother or father.

When you marry someone .... or *join* your life to theirs in any
permenant arrangement, you do so in the full acceptance of the
circumstances, including children, and in a way that shares ALL
responsibilities as you agree between you. Adults in a relationship
decide between them who takes what role .... there are no taboos or
boundaries in the way you seem to be suggesting; just adults arranging
their lives in the best interests of both themselves and their
children.

Few things, imo, would kill a relationship quicker than an adult
feeling *excluded* by writ, from sections of family life.

my 2c

steveb

steveb

December 18th 04, 12:19 AM

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:18:27 GMT, 'Kate >
wrote:

>
>I'd have to disagree in principle..

All of this is true, of course, if you pick the wrong partner :)

ste ..

Tiffany

December 18th 04, 04:20 AM

"'Kate" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:19:48 -0600, steveb > wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:18:27 GMT, 'Kate >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I'd have to disagree in principle..
>>
>>All of this is true, of course, if you pick the wrong partner :)
>>
>>ste ..
>
> The divorce rate for second marriages suggests that we tend to do just
> that.
>
> I remain ever hopeful that some do, indeed, work well.
>
> 'Kate
>

Plus one doesn't know they picked the wrong partner until its to late.

T

Tiffany

December 18th 04, 01:51 PM

"'Kate" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:20:02 -0500, "Tiffany" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Plus one doesn't know they picked the wrong partner until its to late.
>>
>>T
>
> Yep... that's true. If we didn't notice the warning signs the first
> time and it ends badly, then how can we be sure that we didn't miss
> them the second time.
>
> er... don't want to scare anyone... getting married is good... if it's
> to the righit person. Step families can work very well. They can and
> often do benefit the children if only by providing another adult to
> share the work of the household.
>
> 'Kate
>
>

Oh I agree! But I also agree that the step-parent should not try to be the
'parent'. Me and the guy I am seeing already discussed this..... I told him
I will not parent his kids nor he mine. Plus I kind of can't say no to the
little boy, he is to damn cute.

T

P. Fritz

December 18th 04, 02:05 PM

"Tiffany" > wrote in message
...
>
> "'Kate" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:20:02 -0500, "Tiffany" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Plus one doesn't know they picked the wrong partner until its to late.
>>>
>>>T
>>
>> Yep... that's true. If we didn't notice the warning signs the first
>> time and it ends badly, then how can we be sure that we didn't miss
>> them the second time.
>>
>> er... don't want to scare anyone... getting married is good... if it's
>> to the righit person. Step families can work very well. They can and
>> often do benefit the children if only by providing another adult to
>> share the work of the household.
>>
>> 'Kate
>>
>>
>
> Oh I agree! But I also agree that the step-parent should not try to be
the
> 'parent'. Me and the guy I am seeing already discussed this..... I told
him
> I will not parent his kids nor he mine. Plus I kind of can't say no to
the
> little boy, he is to damn cute.
>

So when is the wedding? ;-p

> T
>
>

Joelle

December 18th 04, 02:39 PM

>The children did come first. The parent and child have a longer
>history together (usually) and the longer that history, the longer
>period of time that the step parent will have to wait to "belong".
>Step parents *will* have to understand that *all of this* is part of
>the package. They may very well feel excluded until an individual
>family has found its "way". That's just how it is. And it's better
>that the step parent wait and take his/her time than have the child
>feel pushed out. Adults can be adults. Kids can be kids. If there's
>any "give" then it's up to the adult to give first.
>
>'Kate
>

What she said.

Without the boots.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Joelle

December 18th 04, 02:43 PM

>The divorce rate for second marriages suggests that we tend to do just
>that.

I don't think it has anything to do withe picking the right person. I think
the failure rate with second marraiges has to do with this unrealistic
expectation that because the husband and wife love each other, the whole family
is gonna come on board, they will all instantly jell into a family.

>I remain ever hopeful that some do, indeed, work well.

And I'm convinced the ones that work come with realistic expecations of even
"the right person"

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Joelle

December 18th 04, 02:48 PM

>er... don't want to scare anyone... getting married is good... if it's
>to the righit person.

But even with the "right" person there are problems. The right person has
flaws and weaknesses as you do - you just have to decide that what is good is
worth putting up with the flaws. And accepting that you are not going to
change the weaknesses.

> Step families can work very well. They can and
>often do benefit the children if only by providing another adult to
>share the work of the household.

Yes, I'm seriously taking that into consideration - considering a change of
heart from our email ;-) ...the extra income doesn't hurt either.

Just have to decide if the good points outweigh the not so good...

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

steveb

December 18th 04, 03:11 PM

On 18 Dec 2004 14:45:28 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>Those of you who are all gunho for the stepparent to have parenting rights and
>even veto power if they "feel more strongly" or "have more expertise" I
>assume, then if your ex gets married or moves in with someone, it's just fine
>and dandy for their honey to have an equal say in parenting decisions as
>well....

My point was that I just thought this came at it from the wrong
direction is all. Adults negotiate between them the respective roles
they will play. Natural parents do this, as well as step-parents.

I wasn't arguing that any *specific* rights should exist, merely that
none should be ruled out by writ.

steveb

December 18th 04, 03:14 PM

On 18 Dec 2004 14:45:28 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>I have a question.
>
>Those of you who are all gunho for the stepparent to have parenting rights and
>even veto power if they "feel more strongly" or "have more expertise" I
>assume, then if your ex gets married or moves in with someone, it's just fine
>and dandy for their honey to have an equal say in parenting decisions as
>well....

There was no gunho, you quote me out of context, I have direct and
relevant experience with the scenario you describe that could possibly
move this discussion from theory to reality, and yet you're just rude
enough that a thoughtful response to your question is not worth my
effort.

lm

steveb

December 18th 04, 03:15 PM

On 18 Dec 2004 14:41:05 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>
>Oh God. Well considering your expectations for this group, I'm not surprised
>you have TOTALLY unrealistic expectations for a spouse and relationship.

This wasn't a point about *me*, nor about *my expectations* for this
group.

For the record .... my last relationship lasted 15 years, and was
ended by me, to the utter dismay of my wife :: shrug ::

My two boys live in a stable and happy home, a product I believe, of
consistent caring and realistic expectations.

steveb

ps. weren't you the one who took a break recently, when this group
failed to live up to your expectations?

Tiffany

December 18th 04, 03:37 PM

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
>> But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
>>>views & styles to make it work.
>>
>>And isn't that the point.
>>
>
> Okay, now i'm thinking some of you that haven't been married or had bad
> marraiges maybe think that a good marraige parents agree about
> childrraising
> all the time? Let me disabuse you of that fantasy.
>
> A couple can be compatible, share values, blah blah blah and still
> disagree
> about "Should we let her pierce her ears, buy that game, ect?" When you
> are
> both the parents, you have to work that out, compromise. You aren't going
> to
> agree on everything. Someone is going to have to give in.
>
> When a step parent is involved, I'm saying ONE PERSON makes those
> decisions,
> and it's not the step parent. The parent decides if she gets to wear that
> shirt to the dance, not the step parent. I don't think agreeing on the
> shirt
> should be a requirement for getting married, I think agreeing WHO decides
> about
> the shirt is a requirment for getting married.
>
> And I also believe discipline is the parents job. You earn the right to
> discipline a child by virtue of having been there their whole life...not
> by
> having sex with their mother or father.
>
>
> Now I'm getting deja vue and wondering if I ought to be shining up those
> KGB
> boots...
>
> Joelle
>

LOL..... funny thing to read this cold Saturday morning.

I agree with what you say Joelle. Though I am sure the parent will take the
step-parents idea's and views into consideration, because you know we aren't
ALWAYS right...... the end decision is the bio-parents solely.

T

Tiffany

December 18th 04, 03:39 PM

"lm" > wrote in message
...
> On 16 Dec 2004 21:07:55 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:
>
>>> But boy, you'd sure have to have compatible child rearing
>>>>views & styles to make it work.
>>>
>>>And isn't that the point.
>>>
>>
>>Okay, now i'm thinking some of you that haven't been married or had bad
>>marraiges maybe think that a good marraige parents agree about
>>childrraising
>>all the time? Let me disabuse you of that fantasy.
>
> Oh yeah, because you're the only one who did it right. How could we
> have forgotten.
>
>>A couple can be compatible, share values, blah blah blah and still
>>disagree
>>about "Should we let her pierce her ears, buy that game, ect?" When you
>>are
>>both the parents, you have to work that out, compromise. You aren't going
>>to
>>agree on everything. Someone is going to have to give in.
>>
>>When a step parent is involved, I'm saying ONE PERSON makes those
>>decisions,
>>and it's not the step parent.
>
> And that's where you're wrong. The one person is the one who feels
> more strongly about that particular issue, or who is most reasonable
> about that particular issue, or who has the most clear perspective
> about that particular issue, or who is the most educated on that
> particular issue, or etc. Sometimes it's the stepparent, sometimes
> it's the parent. Most often, especially at the beginning but easily
> long into the marriage, it will be the parent, but that's because the
> parent has a head start knowing the friends, being involved in the
> school, etc.
>
> The parent decides if she gets to wear that
>>shirt to the dance, not the step parent. I don't think agreeing on the
>>shirt
>>should be a requirement for getting married, I think agreeing WHO decides
>>about
>>the shirt is a requirment for getting married.
>>
>>And I also believe discipline is the parents job. You earn the right to
>>discipline a child by virtue of having been there their whole life...not
>>by
>>having sex with their mother or father.
>
> Discipline is the parent's job *if* the discipline the parent employs
> is working. Many single parents let up on discipline out of guilt.
> Often the stepparent has a better perspective, as he/she can see where
> the parent is being inconsistent.
>
> lm

I for one did not slack on discipline and my daughter will vouch for that.
lol

T

Tiffany

December 18th 04, 03:39 PM

"P. Fritz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tiffany" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "'Kate" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:20:02 -0500, "Tiffany" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Plus one doesn't know they picked the wrong partner until its to late.
> >>>
> >>>T
> >>
> >> Yep... that's true. If we didn't notice the warning signs the first
> >> time and it ends badly, then how can we be sure that we didn't miss
> >> them the second time.
> >>
> >> er... don't want to scare anyone... getting married is good... if it's
> >> to the righit person. Step families can work very well. They can and
> >> often do benefit the children if only by providing another adult to
> >> share the work of the household.
> >>
> >> 'Kate
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Oh I agree! But I also agree that the step-parent should not try to be
> the
> > 'parent'. Me and the guy I am seeing already discussed this..... I told
> him
> > I will not parent his kids nor he mine. Plus I kind of can't say no to
> the
> > little boy, he is to damn cute.
> >
>
> So when is the wedding? ;-p
>

Oh please! I am waiting for you and you know it. ;)

T

Joelle

December 18th 04, 03:45 PM

>ps. weren't you the one who took a break recently, when this group
>failed to live up to your expectations?
>

Nope.

Joelle
The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
Augustine
Joelle

Moon Shyne

December 18th 04, 04:23 PM

"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
> I have a question.
>
> Those of you who are all gunho for the stepparent to have parenting rights and
> even veto power if they "feel more strongly" or "have more expertise" I
> assume, then if your ex gets married or moves in with someone, it's just fine
> and dandy for their honey to have an equal say in parenting decisions as
> well....
>
> God help the children who could end up with a committee of parents in this
> scenero....
>
> Another thing for me to be thankful for anyway...

Speaking from experience:

I am a stepchild. For much of my teen years, I lived with my dad and
stepmother. She had full parenting rights, and it would have been bizarre to
expect her to be the mother in the home, mother to my 2 younger brothers, and
have no parenting rights over me.

I have been a stepmother. I pointed out right from the outset - "I'm not your
mom. In this house, I am *the* mom". When they got out of line, I parented
them. When they needed advice, I parented them. When they lived with me, I
parented them. I think it bizarre to have stepchildren living with me, and not
have the right to parent them.

That's my 2c worth.

>
> Joelle
> The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
> Augustine
> Joelle

December 18th 04, 04:26 PM

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:23:09 -0600, "Moon Shyne"
> wrote:

>
>"Joelle" > wrote in message
...
>> I have a question.
>>
>> Those of you who are all gunho for the stepparent to have parenting rights and
>> even veto power if they "feel more strongly" or "have more expertise" I
>> assume, then if your ex gets married or moves in with someone, it's just fine
>> and dandy for their honey to have an equal say in parenting decisions as
>> well....
>>
>> God help the children who could end up with a committee of parents in this
>> scenero....
>>
>> Another thing for me to be thankful for anyway...
>
>Speaking from experience:
>
>I am a stepchild. For much of my teen years, I lived with my dad and
>stepmother. She had full parenting rights, and it would have been bizarre to
>expect her to be the mother in the home, mother to my 2 younger brothers, and
>have no parenting rights over me.
>
>I have been a stepmother. I pointed out right from the outset - "I'm not your
>mom. In this house, I am *the* mom". When they got out of line, I parented
>them. When they needed advice, I parented them. When they lived with me, I
>parented them. I think it bizarre to have stepchildren living with me, and not
>have the right to parent them.
>
>That's my 2c worth.

Well spoken.

lm

Dash Ron

December 18th 04, 06:12 PM

> >and yet you're just rude
> >enough that a thoughtful response to your question is not
> >worth my effort.
>
> But its worth your effort to be rude yourself, and frankly I thought your
> earlier response to me was rude so I thought that was the way you prefer
to
> converse. Jest taking your lead...

<smack>

<SMACK>

Hey!

Hey, why'd you hit me?

Cause you hit me first.

Did not.

Did so.

<SMACK>

<SMACK> <SMACK>

Hey, that hurt.

Yeah, but you started it.

MOMMY!

-Ron

Tiffany

December 19th 04, 04:22 AM

"'Kate" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 08:51:17 -0500, "Tiffany" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Oh I agree! But I also agree that the step-parent should not try to be the
>>'parent'. Me and the guy I am seeing already discussed this..... I told
>>him
>>I will not parent his kids nor he mine. Plus I kind of can't say no to the
>>little boy, he is to damn cute.
>>
>>T
>
> Hey! It sounds like you have a serious relationship going there!
>
> I think that the other adult in the household has certain rights...
> but you're going to be the coordinater of bringing him into the house
> slowly enough so that your daughter doesn't feel pushed out or
> smothered. She's had you all to herself for quite awhile. And
> knowing you, you will keep things from becoming major problems because
> you are willing to confront issues head on.
>
> 'Kate
>

No one is coming into this house to soon, that's for sure! Man I love my
space to much! :)

It is going good, I don't like to talk serious **** though....... I am all
about, lets hang out for a year or two then talk of commitment.

T

IWM

December 19th 04, 04:00 PM

"'Kate" wrote ...
>
> Oh man... I know exactly what that's about. "It's too soon" "let's see
> how it goes" Six years later....
>

<Thinks> wavy lines and music from the Twilight Zone</Thinks>

She : Awww honey C'mon lets talk about marriage...

He : Nah, sweetie,,, we're doing fine as we are.... whats it been now?....
35 years... no real problems... we seem to be rubbing along jus fine....why
tempt fate... wassat??? six years?... SIX years??? are you sure?..... jeeze
it sure feels like 35 ye.... HEY cut that out!!! OW!....

P. Fritz

December 19th 04, 04:12 PM

CME

December 19th 04, 10:25 PM

"steveb" > wrote in message
...
> On 18 Dec 2004 14:41:05 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:
>
>>
>>Oh God. Well considering your expectations for this group, I'm not
>>surprised
>>you have TOTALLY unrealistic expectations for a spouse and relationship.
>
> This wasn't a point about *me*, nor about *my expectations* for this
> group.
>
> For the record .... my last relationship lasted 15 years, and was
> ended by me, to the utter dismay of my wife :: shrug ::
>
> My two boys live in a stable and happy home, a product I believe, of
> consistent caring and realistic expectations.
>
> steveb
>
> ps. weren't you the one who took a break recently, when this group
> failed to live up to your expectations?

Funny how when it suits you, you can be just as caddy as the rest of us.
Pot meet kettle.

Christine

steveb

December 19th 04, 10:44 PM

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 22:25:57 GMT, "CME" >
wrote:

>
>Funny how when it suits you, you can be just as caddy as the rest of us.
>Pot meet kettle.

Here is me thinking I made a sensible point, without trying to score a
cheap shot from anyone .....

You just can't leave it alone can you?

Cheap .... suits ya!

CME

December 21st 04, 03:00 AM

"steveb" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 22:25:57 GMT, "CME" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Funny how when it suits you, you can be just as caddy as the rest of us.
>>Pot meet kettle.
>
> Here is me thinking I made a sensible point, without trying to score a
> cheap shot from anyone .....
>
> You just can't leave it alone can you?
>
> Cheap .... suits ya!

Thank you again for proving my point. Oh and btw, it wasn't a cheap shot,
it was a very relevant observation considering I find you passive
aggressive.

Christine

steveb

December 21st 04, 03:39 AM

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 03:00:08 GMT, "CME" >
wrote:

>Thank you again for proving my point. Oh and btw, it wasn't a cheap shot,
>it was a very relevant observation considering I find you passive
>aggressive.

ROFL

I made a relevant post in this thread .... it matters not whether
'Kate agreed with it, that is a debating point.

Joelle turned it personal, not me ... I called her for it, and, lo and
behold, out you come ...

Cheap! Like I said .... oh, and facile too (look it up)

steveb

ps ... there is nothing *passive* about me at all lmao

steveb

December 21st 04, 04:44 AM

On 21 Dec 2004 04:06:25 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:

>Oh dear. Another one that doesn't get the difference. I criticized YOUR POINT
>OF VIEW...nothing about you, I don't know anything about you personally, nor do
>I care. Seems to me you decided to get personal by talking about your
>marraige, which I said nothing about because I don't care.

Your memory is failing you again .....

Let me refresh it:

My comment first, which you chose to highlight and respond to:

>>All of this is true, of course, if you pick the wrong partner :)

Your response:
>
>Oh God. Well considering your expectations for this group, I'm not surprised
>you have TOTALLY unrealistic expectations for a spouse and relationship.
>
>That's right. Pick the right person. No problems. No faults. No weaknesses.
> No conflicts. No problems.
>
>Joelle
>The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>Augustine
>Joelle

Seems to me you are wrong .... again!

You chose not to address the point, but suggest what I was saying was
somehow related to MY expectations from this group; as evidence that I
had unrealistic expectations everywhere else.

You are a bit dim arncha?

I commented about my marriage later .... you really should get a grip
hon.

Everyone has the right to be stupid, but you and Christine are abusing
the privilidge

steveb

CME

December 21st 04, 05:26 AM

"steveb" > wrote in message
...
> On 21 Dec 2004 04:06:25 GMT, (Joelle) wrote:
>
>>Oh dear. Another one that doesn't get the difference. I criticized YOUR
>>POINT
>>OF VIEW...nothing about you, I don't know anything about you personally,
>>nor do
>>I care. Seems to me you decided to get personal by talking about your
>>marraige, which I said nothing about because I don't care.
>
> Your memory is failing you again .....
>
> Let me refresh it:
>
> My comment first, which you chose to highlight and respond to:
>
>>>All of this is true, of course, if you pick the wrong partner :)
>
> Your response:
>>
>>Oh God. Well considering your expectations for this group, I'm not
>>surprised
>>you have TOTALLY unrealistic expectations for a spouse and relationship.
>>
>>That's right. Pick the right person. No problems. No faults. No
>>weaknesses.
>> No conflicts. No problems.
>>
>>Joelle
>>The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page - St
>>Augustine
>>Joelle
>
> Seems to me you are wrong .... again!
>
> You chose not to address the point, but suggest what I was saying was
> somehow related to MY expectations from this group; as evidence that I
> had unrealistic expectations everywhere else.
>
> You are a bit dim arncha?
>
> I commented about my marriage later .... you really should get a grip
> hon.
>
> Everyone has the right to be stupid, but you and Christine are abusing
> the privilidge
>
> steveb

Seems to me you just don't like being called on your petty bull****, I guess
it was stupid of me to point out, considering how easy it is for others to
spot. ;)

Christine