Anyone Experienced This

[Shelly]

Hi all,

I was hoping someone had experienced something similar and could enlighten
me on what it is.

Background: Two un-eventful pregnancies and two healthy children. I've
always had a regular cycle.

In the last year we have started using foam and timing as a form of birth
control. (I realize this is not fool-proof but right now it's our only
option...and another child would definitely be welcomed) Since we started
this I have had strange cycles. They are 25-28 days in length, but my period
can last up to 14 days. At around day 14-16 (sometimes later) I experience
pregnancy symptoms (nauseous, sore breast, crampiness...you name it I've got
it). This lasts until I start spotting. The spotting lasts about 3-4 days,
and then nothering for 2-3 days. After this my 'real' period begins, lasts
for about 5-7 days. The pregnancy symptoms magically disapear once my 'real'
period begins.

This sounds like an early miscarriage to me, but that would mean I've had
7-9 losses in 12 months...seems highly unlikely. I did a test month where we
abstained...no pregnancy symptoms and a regular period. I'm wondering if
it's the foam. I am in the process of seeing a doctor (last saw her 3 months
ago...she's on sick leave for awhile) and she thought the first one was
probably a miscarriage, but isn't convinced of the others. Testing reveals
nothing so far. I have used pregnancy tests but they are always negative (I
do get my real period the next day though).

If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. Also, is it even possible to
have pregnancy symptoms before your period is late?

Shelly

[Welches]

"Shelly" > wrote in message
news:BihDd.719751$Pl.418248@pd7tw1no...
> Hi all,
>
> I was hoping someone had experienced something similar and could enlighten
> me on what it is.
>
> Background: Two un-eventful pregnancies and two healthy children. I've
> always had a regular cycle.
>
> In the last year we have started using foam and timing as a form of birth
> control. (I realize this is not fool-proof but right now it's our only
> option...and another child would definitely be welcomed) Since we started
> this I have had strange cycles. They are 25-28 days in length, but my
> period can last up to 14 days. At around day 14-16 (sometimes later) I
> experience pregnancy symptoms (nauseous, sore breast, crampiness...you
> name it I've got it). This lasts until I start spotting. The spotting
> lasts about 3-4 days, and then nothering for 2-3 days. After this my
> 'real' period begins, lasts for about 5-7 days. The pregnancy symptoms
> magically disapear once my 'real' period begins.
>
At day 14-16 you'll be ovulating. It's very unlikely that you would be
pregnant enough to get symptoms. Sometimes after pregnancy the character of
your cycle can change and I suspect that's what you've had. The symptoms you
describe are often found round ovulating.
> This sounds like an early miscarriage to me, but that would mean I've had
> 7-9 losses in 12 months...seems highly unlikely. I did a test month where
> we abstained...no pregnancy symptoms and a regular period. I'm wondering
> if it's the foam. I am in the process of seeing a doctor (last saw her 3
> months ago...she's on sick leave for awhile) and she thought the first one
> was probably a miscarriage, but isn't convinced of the others. Testing
> reveals nothing so far. I have used pregnancy tests but they are always
> negative (I do get my real period the next day though).
>
> If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. Also, is it even possible
> to have pregnancy symptoms before your period is late?
Yes, possible. I've always had them from about 10dpo (ie 4 days before
period is due) Did you get symptoms that early when you had your 2 children?
Debbie

[Ilse Witch]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 20:35:45 +0000, Shelly wrote:

> In the last year we have started using foam and timing as a form of birth
> control. (I realize this is not fool-proof but right now it's our only
> option...and another child would definitely be welcomed) Since we started
> this I have had strange cycles.

I have similar problems in some cycles, even when HPT is negative. The
spotting before your period can be a symptom of lower than average
progesterone levels, but it doesn't have to mean anything. Does this foam
contain any hormones or substances that might mimick hormones? It would be
my first suspect.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to four tiny angels
(28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04, 20 May'04 & 28 Oct'04)
guardian of DH (33)

[Pip]

Just a question but what form of birth control were you using between your 2
children. Is it possible that the previous birth control was keeping your
cycles regular, but now while using (assumed hormonal free) foam that you
cycles are just doing what is *normal* for them?

In terms of pregnancy symptoms, DH and I tried for 5 years between
pregnancies and I found that the symptoms of your period starting can be
identical to being pregnant so it is very hard to tell the difference early
on. (I spent many hundreds of dollars on HPT that were all negative)

GL
Pip


"Shelly" > wrote in message
news:BihDd.719751$Pl.418248@pd7tw1no...
> Hi all,
>
> I was hoping someone had experienced something similar and could enlighten
> me on what it is.
>
> Background: Two un-eventful pregnancies and two healthy children. I've
> always had a regular cycle.
>
> In the last year we have started using foam and timing as a form of birth
> control. (I realize this is not fool-proof but right now it's our only
> option...and another child would definitely be welcomed) Since we started
> this I have had strange cycles. They are 25-28 days in length, but my
period
> can last up to 14 days. At around day 14-16 (sometimes later) I experience
> pregnancy symptoms (nauseous, sore breast, crampiness...you name it I've
got
> it). This lasts until I start spotting. The spotting lasts about 3-4 days,
> and then nothering for 2-3 days. After this my 'real' period begins, lasts
> for about 5-7 days. The pregnancy symptoms magically disapear once my
'real'
> period begins.
>
> This sounds like an early miscarriage to me, but that would mean I've had
> 7-9 losses in 12 months...seems highly unlikely. I did a test month where
we
> abstained...no pregnancy symptoms and a regular period. I'm wondering if
> it's the foam. I am in the process of seeing a doctor (last saw her 3
months
> ago...she's on sick leave for awhile) and she thought the first one was
> probably a miscarriage, but isn't convinced of the others. Testing reveals
> nothing so far. I have used pregnancy tests but they are always negative
(I
> do get my real period the next day though).
>
> If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. Also, is it even possible
to
> have pregnancy symptoms before your period is late?
>
> Shelly
>
>

[Shelly]

Thanks for the quick feedback.

Before both children I was on BCP, but after my first child was born I
determined they caused depression and anxiety attacks. So between both kids
it was a condom (neither of us liked this). This time the spacing between
number 2 and a potential number 3 is going to be bigger so we ditched the
condom and went the foam and timing method.

After everyone's comments I suspect that this is just regular for me.
Although, each month I secretly hope I'm pregnant (but won't shell out
anymore dough for tests)...hubby isn't quite ready. With both kids I did
have symptoms before a positive test, but then I also found I needed to
test 3 days after my expected period...so who knows.

Thanks!

Shelly

"Shelly" > wrote in message
news:BihDd.719751$Pl.418248@pd7tw1no...
> Hi all,
>
> I was hoping someone had experienced something similar and could enlighten
> me on what it is.
>
> Background: Two un-eventful pregnancies and two healthy children. I've
> always had a regular cycle.
>
> In the last year we have started using foam and timing as a form of birth
> control. (I realize this is not fool-proof but right now it's our only
> option...and another child would definitely be welcomed) Since we started
> this I have had strange cycles. They are 25-28 days in length, but my
> period can last up to 14 days. At around day 14-16 (sometimes later) I
> experience pregnancy symptoms (nauseous, sore breast, crampiness...you
> name it I've got it). This lasts until I start spotting. The spotting
> lasts about 3-4 days, and then nothering for 2-3 days. After this my
> 'real' period begins, lasts for about 5-7 days. The pregnancy symptoms
> magically disapear once my 'real' period begins.
>
> This sounds like an early miscarriage to me, but that would mean I've had
> 7-9 losses in 12 months...seems highly unlikely. I did a test month where
> we abstained...no pregnancy symptoms and a regular period. I'm wondering
> if it's the foam. I am in the process of seeing a doctor (last saw her 3
> months ago...she's on sick leave for awhile) and she thought the first one
> was probably a miscarriage, but isn't convinced of the others. Testing
> reveals nothing so far. I have used pregnancy tests but they are always
> negative (I do get my real period the next day though).
>
> If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. Also, is it even possible
> to have pregnancy symptoms before your period is late?
>
> Shelly
>

[Pologirl]

Shelly wrote:
> After everyone's comments I suspect that this is just regular for me.

No one has yet mentioned the problem I had, which might be relevant to
you also. I assume you are using a spermicidal foam, the spermicide
being the usual nonoxynol-9? I developed a sensitivity to nonoxynol-9,
which caused symptoms almost exactly like yours, except that I would
spot much sooner and I generally felt like I was developing a vicious
vaginal infection.

[Shelly]

Interesting, I checked and it is nonoxynal-9. I don't have any infection
symptons, just pregnancy. Hmmm...maybe we'll have to have a few more test
months. If that is the case, that just sucks!!! :)

Thanks!

"Pologirl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Shelly wrote:
>> After everyone's comments I suspect that this is just regular for me.
>
> No one has yet mentioned the problem I had, which might be relevant to
> you also. I assume you are using a spermicidal foam, the spermicide
> being the usual nonoxynol-9? I developed a sensitivity to nonoxynol-9,
> which caused symptoms almost exactly like yours, except that I would
> spot much sooner and I generally felt like I was developing a vicious
> vaginal infection.
>

[Pologirl]

Shelly wrote:
> Hmmm...maybe we'll have to have a few more
test
> months. If that is the case, that just sucks!!! :)

First off, the annual rate of failure of foam contraception is
somewhere in the range of 10%, right? So if your contraception
failure hypothesis is correct, then you've had 7 failures. The
odds of that are 0.1 (10%) multiplied 7 times, 0.1^7, which is
getting rather close to zero. That hypothesis also requires 7
early losses or failures to implant. Also not highly likely.
So the contraception failure hypothesis looks rather unlikely,
agreed?

How to test if the spermicide is the problem. Well, abstinence
caused no symptoms. That was one test. Other tests you can do:

1. no contraception.

2. condoms or other contraceptive barrier with nonoxynol-9;
just not the foam. Maybe there is something else to the foam
that is causing your symptoms.

3. condoms or other contraceptive barrier without nonoxynol-9.
Good luck working this out.

[Shelly]

Thanks for all of your help!

I'm going to either start testing this or get pregnant and have hubby get a
vasectomy when the time comes to discuss BC again.

Hubby and I have to talk.

"Pologirl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Shelly wrote:
>> Hmmm...maybe we'll have to have a few more
> test
>> months. If that is the case, that just sucks!!! :)
>
> First off, the annual rate of failure of foam contraception is
> somewhere in the range of 10%, right? So if your contraception
> failure hypothesis is correct, then you've had 7 failures. The
> odds of that are 0.1 (10%) multiplied 7 times, 0.1^7, which is
> getting rather close to zero. That hypothesis also requires 7
> early losses or failures to implant. Also not highly likely.
> So the contraception failure hypothesis looks rather unlikely,
> agreed?
>
> How to test if the spermicide is the problem. Well, abstinence
> caused no symptoms. That was one test. Other tests you can do:
>
> 1. no contraception.
>
> 2. condoms or other contraceptive barrier with nonoxynol-9;
> just not the foam. Maybe there is something else to the foam
> that is causing your symptoms.
>
> 3. condoms or other contraceptive barrier without nonoxynol-9.
> Good luck working this out.
>

[Sarah Vaughan]

In message <BihDd.719751$Pl.418248@pd7tw1no>, Shelly
> writes
>Hi all,
>
>I was hoping someone had experienced something similar and could enlighten
>me on what it is.
>
>Background: Two un-eventful pregnancies and two healthy children. I've
>always had a regular cycle.
>
>In the last year we have started using foam and timing as a form of birth
>control. (I realize this is not fool-proof but right now it's our only
>option...and another child would definitely be welcomed) Since we started
>this I have had strange cycles. They are 25-28 days in length, but my period
>can last up to 14 days. At around day 14-16 (sometimes later) I experience
>pregnancy symptoms (nauseous, sore breast, crampiness...you name it I've got
>it). This lasts until I start spotting. The spotting lasts about 3-4 days,
>and then nothering for 2-3 days. After this my 'real' period begins, lasts
>for about 5-7 days. The pregnancy symptoms magically disapear once my 'real'
>period begins.
>
>This sounds like an early miscarriage to me, but that would mean I've had
>7-9 losses in 12 months...seems highly unlikely. I did a test month where we
>abstained...no pregnancy symptoms and a regular period. I'm wondering if
>it's the foam. I am in the process of seeing a doctor (last saw her 3 months
>ago...she's on sick leave for awhile) and she thought the first one was
>probably a miscarriage, but isn't convinced of the others. Testing reveals
>nothing so far. I have used pregnancy tests but they are always negative (I
>do get my real period the next day though).

This sounds totally normal. The hormone that causes the pregnancy
symptoms you describe is progesterone, and your body produces a surge of
it in the second half of the menstrual cycle, triggered by ovulation.
The levels you get in a normal menstrual cycle aren't as high as the
levels you get in pregnancy, so some women get symptoms and some don't.
It sounds as if, following your last pregnancy, you've either started
producing more progesterone in your normal menstrual cycles or you've
become more sensitive to the amount you're producing. I don't know
which, but it sounds completely normal either way.

The only bit I can't account for is that your symptoms didn't happen in
the month where you abstained. Maybe this was just a weird coincidence,
or maybe the foam is somehow making you more sensitive to hormones
(never heard of this happening, but the human body is a strange and
complex thing), or maybe intercourse actually triggers ovulation in you
and you don't ovulate in the months you don't have intercourse (I have
never heard of this happening in humans, but I believe it happens in
some mammals - Hillary can probably tell me whether I'm right or not
about that - so I wonder whether it might be theoretically possible in
humans as well). I don't know.

However, to answer your original question - no, this does not indicate
that you're pregnant and miscarrying each time. It's just normal
symptoms associated with the cycle. Hope this helps.


All the best,

Sarah


--
"I once requested an urgent admission for a homeopath who had become depressed
and taken a massive underdose" - Phil Peverley

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
Sarah Vaughan > wrote:

*complex thing), or maybe intercourse actually triggers ovulation in you
*and you don't ovulate in the months you don't have intercourse (I have
*never heard of this happening in humans, but I believe it happens in
*some mammals - Hillary can probably tell me whether I'm right or not
*about that - so I wonder whether it might be theoretically possible in
*humans as well). I don't know.

I don't believe humans are ever induced ovulators, although I'm certainly
no expert on the human reproductive system. We did cover it in my repro
classes for comparison's sake (and it was shocking I tell you, SHOCKING
how many of my male classmates were learning new material in those
lectures) and it wasn't mentioned.

As far as other mammals off the top of my head - yes, cats, llamas, and
rabbits are induced ovulators. Induced ovulators are very efficient
breeders, who recruit waves of follicles but do not actually ovulate
unless bred by a male. The cat is a seasonal induced ovulator, who only
cycles when the days are long, and the rabbit and llama will go
year-round.

-h.
--
Hillary Israeli, VMD
Lafayette Hill/PA/USA/Earth
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is
too dark to read." --Groucho Marx