evaluating private school

[Karen G]

As our first child starts preschool, I also see school looming ahead. I
don't really have the desire to homeschool although I see it as a
positive alternative. I am looking into my arear public schools, but
have concerns about the teach techniques and the learning environment.
I have private school options--Lutheran, non-demonational Christian,
Catholic, and secular.

How did you make this decision and how has it affected your family for
good or bad? How do I make a decision on this issue? I plan to go for
a visit in October after school has gotten underway and visit the
kindergarten classes and the 3rd grade classes.

Karen

[Kevin Karplus]

In article >, Karen G wrote:
> As our first child starts preschool, I also see school looming ahead. I
> don't really have the desire to homeschool although I see it as a
> positive alternative. I am looking into my arear public schools, but
> have concerns about the teach techniques and the learning environment.
> I have private school options--Lutheran, non-demonational Christian,
> Catholic, and secular.
>
> How did you make this decision and how has it affected your family for
> good or bad? How do I make a decision on this issue? I plan to go for
> a visit in October after school has gotten underway and visit the
> kindergarten classes and the 3rd grade classes.

We go through the private/public decision frequently (before K,
halfway through K--when I went on sabbatical to Seattle, before 1,
before 2). So far, we have ended up with public school each time, but
it has gotten real close---I almost put a $1000 down payment on the
nearby private school when it looked like they might close the public
school my son goes to---if the down payment hadn't committed me to a
full year's tuition, I probably would have paid it, just to keep the
option open until the vote on the parcel tax was over (it passed by
125 votes, so the public schools are going to stay open in Santa
Cruz).

What are some of the key factors in the decision? Our son is several
years ahead of his peers in reading and one or two in math, but
average or slightly lower in physical activities. We wanted a school
that would keep him challenged and engaged, but not be too stressful.

Public school pluses:
1) wide range of kids from different social classes
2) classes in Spanish as a second language
3) big library with professional librarian
4) easy walking/biking distance
5) cheap
6) strong parental and community involvement
7) fairly good playground
8) speech therapy available

Private school pluses:
1) kids grouped by ability, not age, for reading and math
2) smaller class sizes
3) more advanced curriculum, particularly in science
4) easy walking/biking distance
5) strong parental involvement

The big library, while nice, was not a deciding factor, as there is
alos an excellent children's section at the public library, only about
a mile away (and our son will soon be reading stuff beyond what the
elementary school library stocks). The free speech therapy has also
bee useful, but we could have paid for private therapy, as the
half-hour a week would not be that expensive.

What turned out to be the deciding factor for us was the bilingual
program at the public school. By having our son take Spanish literacy
with the Spanish-speaking children (rather than English literacy), he
got about 2 hours a day of instruction in Spanish, in an environment
with about 20 native speakers of Spanish---something we could NOT
provide at home, especially as neither my wife nor I have much
Spanish.

We will undoubtedly revisit our decision each year, particularly as
the public-school bilingual program transitions from Spanish literacy
instruction to English literacy instruction.


--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

[dragonlady]

In article >,
Karen G > wrote:

> As our first child starts preschool, I also see school looming ahead. I
> don't really have the desire to homeschool although I see it as a
> positive alternative. I am looking into my arear public schools, but
> have concerns about the teach techniques and the learning environment.
> I have private school options--Lutheran, non-demonational Christian,
> Catholic, and secular.
>
> How did you make this decision and how has it affected your family for
> good or bad? How do I make a decision on this issue? I plan to go for
> a visit in October after school has gotten underway and visit the
> kindergarten classes and the 3rd grade classes.
>
> Karen
>

If i had it to do over again, the one thing I would do is look for a
school -- public or private, it wouldn't matter -- that assigned NO
homework before at least 4th grade. I know now that they do exist.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

[Kevin Karplus]

In article
>,
dragonlady wrote:
> If i had it to do over again, the one thing I would do is look for a
> school -- public or private, it wouldn't matter -- that assigned NO
> homework before at least 4th grade. I know now that they do exist.

Why do you object to homework?

My son had weekly homework in first grade (assigned Monday, due
Friday) and it was overall a good thing. He enjoyed doing some of it
(generally the math, which took 1-2 minutes, and the drawing, which
took about 5 minutes) and disliked some of it (generally the writing,
which took about 5 minutes when he was in a good mood), but it helped
establish links between what he did at home and what he did at school.
It also helped us, as parents, see what the school was expecting of
the kids and what tasks were easy for him and what tasks were hard.

The amount of work (less than half an hour a week) was not a big
burden on him or us supervising him. I imagine that some of the kids
took longer to do the work, but I don't think any spent more than an
hour a week on it.

I expect the amount of homework to increase over the next few years,
and for him to have daily homework by 4th grade.


--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

[H Schinske]

wrote:

>If i had it to do over again, the one thing I would do is look for a
>school -- public or private, it wouldn't matter -- that assigned NO
>homework before at least 4th grade. I know now that they do exist.

Or at least takes the sensible attitude that homework is for mastery and if the
child has mastered the material to the parent's satisfaction, the parent can
sign off on the arithmetic drill or whatever. That's what our school does, and
we have not found the homework level at all burdensome.

I'd also look for one where the early grades were taught in a developmentally
appropriate way, with lots of open-ended, hands-on activities, and not having
the kids do lots of worksheets. I observed one kindergarten class where every
child was supposed to listen to the teacher and color a bit of the worksheet
when the teacher said so, and the teacher said they were to color Abe Lincoln's
cabin brown because this was "before paint was invented." This offended me on
so many levels I don't even want to count them.

--Helen

[dragonlady]

In article >,
(Kevin Karplus) wrote:

> In article
> >,
> dragonlady wrote:
> > If i had it to do over again, the one thing I would do is look for a
> > school -- public or private, it wouldn't matter -- that assigned NO
> > homework before at least 4th grade. I know now that they do exist.
>
> Why do you object to homework?
>
> My son had weekly homework in first grade (assigned Monday, due
> Friday) and it was overall a good thing. He enjoyed doing some of it
> (generally the math, which took 1-2 minutes, and the drawing, which
> took about 5 minutes) and disliked some of it (generally the writing,
> which took about 5 minutes when he was in a good mood), but it helped
> establish links between what he did at home and what he did at school.
> It also helped us, as parents, see what the school was expecting of
> the kids and what tasks were easy for him and what tasks were hard.
>
> The amount of work (less than half an hour a week) was not a big
> burden on him or us supervising him. I imagine that some of the kids
> took longer to do the work, but I don't think any spent more than an
> hour a week on it.
>
> I expect the amount of homework to increase over the next few years,
> and for him to have daily homework by 4th grade.

Our school's policy was 10 minutes per night per grade, and if a child
had a hard time with it it could take considerably longer.

My daughter didn't object until 2nd grade, and then it sometimes took
hours -- a long time to do it, but even longer because she fought doing
it so hard. It turned our evenings into a constant battle ground.
There is no evidence that homework does any real good until at least 4th
or 5th grade (no, I'm not going to produce the citations -- but there
have been studies) and for at least some percentage of kids, it is just
a horrid experience.

Plus, I think kids should be free to learn in some of the other ways
kids learn -- like by free play and running around -- and if very much
time is spent on homework, they lose time for that.

There are other ways to establish the school/home link, and you can look
at what they do in school to learn about that.

The only thing early homework seemed to do for my kids was set homework
up as a thing to be avoided and fought.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

[Marion Baumgarten]

Kevin Karplus > wrote:

> In article
> >,
> dragonlady wrote:
> > If i had it to do over again, the one thing I would do is look for a
> > school -- public or private, it wouldn't matter -- that assigned NO
> > homework before at least 4th grade. I know now that they do exist.
>
> Why do you object to homework?
>

I object to homework in the early grades because in both my children's
cases, it cut into family time and was often boring, repetetive and had
no point. The final straw for me was an assignment where my daughter had
to solve 52 arthmetic problems, look up a code assigned to each answer,
and graph the alpha code onto a grid which eventually made apicture of
Abraham Lincoln. She was give one night to do this and had other
homework as well. Aftre that, I informed her teacher that she would be
doing one hour of homework a night- period.

Marion Baumgarten

[lizzard woman]

"Kevin Karplus" > wrote in message
...

> What turned out to be the deciding factor for us was the bilingual
> program at the public school. By having our son take Spanish literacy
> with the Spanish-speaking children (rather than English literacy), he
> got about 2 hours a day of instruction in Spanish, in an environment
> with about 20 native speakers of Spanish---something we could NOT
> provide at home, especially as neither my wife nor I have much
> Spanish.

This is the only plus the private school my daughters attended for second
grade had.

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

[lizzard woman]

"Scott Lindstrom" > wrote in message
...

> We also have the choice of a private school that is
> not affiliated with anything religious. But from what
> I've heard, the kids there are tested to within an inch
> of their sanity. IOW, it's very very high pressure.

This is a good description of the private school my daughters attended.

They mistake lots of homework for academic prep.

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

[lizzard woman]

"Kevin Karplus" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> dragonlady wrote:
> > If i had it to do over again, the one thing I would do is look for a
> > school -- public or private, it wouldn't matter -- that assigned NO
> > homework before at least 4th grade. I know now that they do exist.

> Why do you object to homework?

I object becaue there is no demonstrable benefit before about fourth grade
and because some schools falsely equate lots of hoomework with
academic/college prep.

> My son had weekly homework in first grade (assigned Monday, due
> Friday) and it was overall a good thing. He enjoyed doing some of it
> (generally the math, which took 1-2 minutes, and the drawing, which
> took about 5 minutes) and disliked some of it (generally the writing,
> which took about 5 minutes when he was in a good mood), but it helped
> establish links between what he did at home and what he did at school.
> It also helped us, as parents, see what the school was expecting of
> the kids and what tasks were easy for him and what tasks were hard.

> The amount of work (less than half an hour a week) was not a big
> burden on him or us supervising him. I imagine that some of the kids
> took longer to do the work, but I don't think any spent more than an
> hour a week on it.
>
> I expect the amount of homework to increase over the next few years,
> and for him to have daily homework by 4th grade.

During the first week of third grade, my daughters got between 2-3 hours of
homework every night. They had just changed schools are were also the
youngest in the class. So I red-shirted them and they repeated second grade
despite having successfully completed it at their old school. In second,
they usually got ~ 1 hour of homework every damn night.

--
sharon, momma to savannah and willow (11/11/94)

[Colleen Porter]

Karen G > wrote in message >...
> As our first child starts preschool, I also see school looming ahead. I
> don't really have the desire to homeschool although I see it as a
> positive alternative. I am looking into my arear public schools, but
> have concerns about the teach techniques and the learning environment.

Be sure to ask about charter schools, magnet schools, and alternative
programs within your local public school. Our school has a multi-age
program (kindergarten through 2d grade), for example.

But these alternatives are not very well publicized. (Partly, this is
because they don't want to be overwhelmed...)

So you may need to ask around.

This year my daughter is going to a magnet program for the "highly
gifted." The class is limited to 18 students and the teachers are
excellent. It's public school, but very different from her experience
last year.

Colleen Kay Porter

[C. S.]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
" I observed one kindergarten class where every child was supposed
to listen to the teacher and color a bit of the worksheet when the
teacher said so, and the teacher said they were to color Abe Lincoln's
cabin brown because this was "before paint was invented." This offended
me on so many levels I don't even want to count them. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I looked into homeschool as an option for my DD. We eventually chose
public school for several reasons, not the least of which is that she
is an only child, and desires more social interaction with same-age
peers than I can give her. In the process of looking at curriculum,
however, I learned a few things about various teaching methods and
philosophies.

I think the "Listen to the teacher and color the worksheet" deal is to
teach kindergartners to follow directions. There are more creative ways
to do this, of course. We like a good rousing game of Simon Says. But
I don't know how effective a strategy that would be with 20-something
5yo's hopping around in the same room...<g>

As to Lincoln's cabin.... I can easily see why the comment was
offensive. Nothing is gained by teaching faulty history to children of
any age. Paint most certainly was invented before the era of Abraham
Lincoln. We don't know if he had paint on his house or not. I think I
will suggest to my 5yo DD that we go look that up. I feel an end of
summer research project coming on. And just in time, too! Three weeks
before school starts, and ennui settled in our house a month ago!
Should I give her any homework? Maybe she'd like to draw a picture
which represents what we learn on the subject. She's a bit young for a
term paper. <g>

Carol

[Robyn Kozierok]

In article >,
Karen G > wrote:
>
>How did you make this decision and how has it affected your family for
>good or bad? How do I make a decision on this issue? I plan to go for
>a visit in October after school has gotten underway and visit the
>kindergarten classes and the 3rd grade classes.
>

Once your child's preschool teacher has had a chance to get to know her,
s/he may be able to recommend a school that would be a good fit for her.
My oldest's preK/K teacher recommended the private school where my kids
eventually ended up, though I did not take that advice immediately and
first sent them to a public school that was good in the short-term but
was getting worse and worse by the year until we pulled them out after
K and 3rd.

I'd echo the no homework sentiment. The public school had homework.
All it ever taught my children was to hate homework, even thought the
school was fairly flexible about it. Our current school gives
virtually no homework until 6th grade, and that works well for us, and
gives the kids more time to pursue extracurricular interests to round
themselves out a bit. From what I've seen the kids adjust just fine to
it in the older grades without "practicing" from K on, which was the
excuse the public school gave for giving it.

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

[Iowacookiemom]

>Karen G > wrote in message
>...
>> As our first child starts preschool, I also see school looming ahead. I
>> don't really have the desire to homeschool although I see it as a
>> positive alternative. I am looking into my arear public schools, but
>> have concerns about the teach techniques and the learning environment.

We've been through the choosing school thing three times now. One thing people
often don't mention is to try to assess the relative happiness/harmony on the
staff. Do the teachers seem to like the principal? Do the teachers stay?
(Henry's first school had turnover rates above 50% each year -- a red flag).
If you have the opportunity to talk to a staff member, do so -- better still to
talk with several. Find out how long they've been at the school and why they
stay.

As the time to start school nears, take your child with you. You may be
surprised to see how your child reacts in different environments. Do the staff
relate more to you or to your child (I believe the latter is best)? Do not,
however, let the child in on the decision at this age -- we found it causes too
much stress. Better to just way "we are visiting schools to see what they are
like" than to give the child a vote at this age, at least in our case.



-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 10

[Penny Gaines]

Karen G wrote:

> As our first child starts preschool, I also see school looming ahead. I
> don't really have the desire to homeschool although I see it as a
> positive alternative. I am looking into my arear public schools, but
> have concerns about the teach techniques and the learning environment.
> I have private school options--Lutheran, non-demonational Christian,
> Catholic, and secular.
>
> How did you make this decision and how has it affected your family for
> good or bad? How do I make a decision on this issue? I plan to go for
> a visit in October after school has gotten underway and visit the
> kindergarten classes and the 3rd grade classes.

In the UK some of the factors we are advised to look at include:

1) Artwork: are the children's creations shown on the walls? Are only
'good' pieces shown, or do some of them look like they were done by
not-so-good artists. Are they in other parts of the school, not just
the classroom walls.

2) Does the headteacher appear to know the children by name?

3) Do the children look happy, and occupied?

One reason I like our kids current school is that although each class is
age-based, they do a lot of activities in multi-age groups. The school
often takes half or a third of one class and puts them in with another
age-grouping. This is not always ability based: eg for art work where
they are mixed up.

HTH

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

[C. S.]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I volunteer (OB parenting: with my children) at a living history site,
and this year we learned that, although most people make pictures of
westward-bound covered wagons with the wagons being made of plain brown
wood, they were almost always painted, because otherwise they would
weather and fall apart too fast. (Remember "Paint Your Wagon?" There was
a reason for that.) Perhaps this was less of a problem for actual _log_
cabins, because the wood was not cut and the exterior of the log is
stronger.
Peggy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I knew that about the wagons. Also, houses which were made of boards,
rather than logs, were often painted or "whitewashed" for the same
reason. We did learn that most log houses were built with the bark on.
It was a time saver not to have to remove it, and the bark provided
natural protection from the elements. If a cabin outlived its bark,
i.e. if the bark fell off, which took years, then paint was an
option, if the inhabitants could afford it. Some logs weathered faster
than others. Depending on the type of log used, weathering may not
have been completed for a generation or two. If Honest Abe grew up in a
newly built cabin, it is not likely to have been painted in his
lifetime. That's about all we could find. Btw, DD drew a lovely
picture of a brown, "bumpy" log cabin. <g>

Carol
:-)

[H Schinske]

wrote:

>Some logs weathered faster
>than others. Depending on the type of log used, weathering may not
>have been completed for a generation or two.

Okay, I tracked down the source of my general impression: the first sentence of
_Little House in the Big Woods_, "Once upon a time, sixty years ago, a little
girl lived in the Big Woods of Wisconsin, in a little gray house made of logs."

It strikes me that a log cabin would be a real turkey to paint! I wouldn't care
for the job.

--Helen

[Jayne Kulikauskas]

"Karen G" > wrote in message
...

[]
> How did you make this decision and how has it affected your family for
> good or bad? How do I make a decision on this issue? I plan to go for
> a visit in October after school has gotten underway and visit the
> kindergarten classes and the 3rd grade classes.

Something that could be helpful is to spend some thinking about your
personal philosophy of education. What do you think the purpose of
education is? Imagine what the ideal education for your children would look
like. What do you want your children to end up like as adults? When you
have thought about these things then you can compare schools against your
goals and ideals.

Jayne