Privacy vs safety: teen level

[dragonlady]

A few days ago, I was having a conversation with my 17 yo daughter that
I repeat periodically, reminding her that if she is ever in a situation
where the driver (whether it is her or someone else) has been drinking
or using drugs, I will gladly come and pick her up to get her home
safely; she only needs to call. I asked if it had come up lately, and
she said yes -- but that there were five or six of them that needed to
get home, and they called a friend to come and get them. I told her I'd
have been glad to drive her friends home, too. (What's more, I mean
it.) She said she had suggested to her friends that they could call me,
and they might have as a last resort, but that her friends didn't want
to for fear that I would tell their parents that they'd been drinking
(or whatever it was they were doing.)

She then asked if I WOULD feel compelled to tell their parents. My
first inclination was to say that yes, as a fellow member of the
community trying to get these kids to adulthood in one piece, I would
call their parents the next day to make sure they knew what their kids
had been doing the night before.

She pressed further, and said that if I'd be willing to promise to NOT
tell their parents, they'd be more likely to call me for a ride should
the same thing happen in the future. (With this group of kids, I can
almost guarantee that it will.)

Now, I don't know any of these parents very well. I've tried to get to
know them, and a handful have been responsive. At least one seems at
best half a bubble off plumb, most seem to be doing about the best they
can with parenting this particular type of at-risk teen. As far as I
can tell, they all already know that their kids are engaged in high-risk
activities. Most don't seem much interested in trying to work with
other parents, so talking to them about this doesn't sound promising.

Now, I know that many of you reading this list have only younger kids,
so you aren't facing this yet. So think back to your own teen years.
For those with older kids -- and grandkids! -- it may still be an
exercise in imagination, since not everyone has to deal with kids who
are getting in trouble.

But what would you do? Would you be willing to get a group of kids home
safely with a promise to NOT tell their parents? If you were one of the
other parents, would YOU prefer that I get them home and NOT tell, or
refuse to get them home without telling? (Promising to not tell, then
telling anyway, is NOT an option as far as I'm concerned. These kids
know I don't lie to them, and I want to keep it that way.)

Torn, and looking forward to the discussion here.
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

[LFortier]

dragonlady wrote:

>But what would you do? Would you be willing to get a group of kids home
>safely with a promise to NOT tell their parents? If you were one of the
>other parents, would YOU prefer that I get them home and NOT tell, or
>refuse to get them home without telling? (Promising to not tell, then
>telling anyway, is NOT an option as far as I'm concerned. These kids
>know I don't lie to them, and I want to keep it that way.)
>
>Torn, and looking forward to the discussion here.
>
>
How about splitting hairs and promising not to volunteer the info, but
tell them specifically that you're not going to lie if asked.

I don't have teens yet, but I'm figuring I'll be the mom waiting up,
which means I should notice if either dd comes home under the influence.
In which case, I'd be thrilled that a sober adult had gotten her home.

Lesley

[Scott Lindstrom]

Bruce and Jeanne wrote:
> dragonlady wrote:
>
>
>>Now, I know that many of you reading this list have only younger kids,
>>so you aren't facing this yet. So think back to your own teen years.
>
>
> You're right, I don't have teenagers yet and after reading the above,
> I'm not sure I'm looking forward to it.
>
>
>>But what would you do? Would you be willing to get a group of kids home
>>safely with a promise to NOT tell their parents? If you were one of the
>>other parents, would YOU prefer that I get them home and NOT tell, or
>>refuse to get them home without telling? (Promising to not tell, then
>>telling anyway, is NOT an option as far as I'm concerned. These kids
>>know I don't lie to them, and I want to keep it that way.)
>>
>
>
> Why is the issue put in such black-and-white terms? That is, either you
> promise not to tell or that you not tell at all. I would never promise
> to not tell because I know I may never be able to keep that promise
> (what is one of the parents actually ask?) but that doesn't mean I would
> immediately pick up the phone and tell the parents that their child was
> drinking.
>
> We had a parallel situation in our neighborhood. A new family moves in
> - a separated woman with four kids. Two kids live with their father. A
> son (around 17-19 years old) comes to live with the woman this summer
> and she promptly leaves for a week or so at a time. Well, as expected,
> over July 4th weekend he has a beer blast (I think the only surprise is
> that he waited so long). It got WAY out of hand and I ended up calling
> the police. Well, no neighbor has, to my knowledge, told the mother
> about the beer blast. One neighbor actually told the kid that he would
> *not* tell the mother as long as the kid keeps the music down and not
> have another beer blast.
>
> I was told by our HOA president that someone should tell the mother in
> case this becomes a more serious issue. He's concerned that if we have
> to repeatedly call the police (so far, we haven't) then all of a sudden
> the mother becomes liable and she may say "Why didn't anyone tell me?!"
>
> It's not easy.
>
> Jeanne

I would tell the mother about the beer blast. It's her house,
she does have a right to know what goes on when she's outta
town. Now, if the son is vindictive, I might be careful in my
telling her, but still, she does have a right to know. *I*
would certainly want to know if that happened at my house while
I was gone (and if it got way out of hand, how can the mother
not know?).

The driving is trickier. I think I would want to know if my
under-the-influence kid got a ride home from someone else. But
if it precluded her (or him) from doing so in the future, maybe
I could live with my ignorance. I do not anticipate being
so ignorant of what's going on that I wouldn't know how she/he
got home, (easy to say with a 10 and 7-yo ;) ). If I drove
DD's or DS's friends home, and they were drunk/stoned/whatever,
I don't think I'd feel very comfortable keeping it from the
parent, if I knew how the parent would react. If I don't know
the parent well at all, I would not tell them, other than
maybe to call them later, under the pretense of asking how
little Jonny/Jessica is feeling, and let them know I drove
their kid home.

Aah, the things I have to look forward to!

Scott DD 10 and DS 7

[Colleen Porter]

dragonlady > wrote in message >...
> A few days ago, I was having a conversation with my 17 yo daughter that
> I repeat periodically, reminding her that if she is ever in a situation
> where the driver (whether it is her or someone else) has been drinking
> or using drugs, I will gladly come and pick her up to get her home
> safely; she only needs to call. I asked if it had come up lately, and
> she said yes -- but that there were five or six of them that needed to
> get home, and they called a friend to come and get them. I told her I'd
> have been glad to drive her friends home, too. (What's more, I mean
> it.) She said she had suggested to her friends that they could call me,
> and they might have as a last resort, but that her friends didn't want
> to for fear that I would tell their parents that they'd been drinking
> (or whatever it was they were doing.)
>
> She then asked if I WOULD feel compelled to tell their parents. My
> first inclination was to say that yes, as a fellow member of the
> community trying to get these kids to adulthood in one piece, I would
> call their parents the next day to make sure they knew what their kids
> had been doing the night before.

Well, another consideration might be the laws of your state/province.
There may be some serious liability issues if you don't tell and there
are consequences.

One option you don't mention is to tell, and be clear that you are
going to tell, but give them more time than just the next day (maybe
three days). Sometimes people (I started to say young people but it's
really many of us) need to plan their timing, and having more than 12
hours to tell the parents themselves might really help them.

In all these cases, we have an agreement with our teens that we will
ask no questions and make no judgements at the time of the rescue. We
wouldn't even find out the facts ourselves until the next day.

But then, I fully admit that my teens were never as high risk as yours
(and I say that with respect for your parenting skills and challenges,
not to brag in the least). Mine had some bad moments, but seemed to
learn from them, and were overall very responsible. So the dynamics
of your situation may really be very different, and it will be
interesting to read what other think.

Colleen Kay Porter

[Iowacookiemom]

>Well, another consideration might be the laws of your state/province.
>There may be some serious liability issues if you don't tell and there
>are consequences.

This is an important point, and worth checking out ahead of time.

>One option you don't mention is to tell, and be clear that you are
>going to tell, but give them more time than just the next day (maybe
>three days). Sometimes people (I started to say young people but it's
>really many of us) need to plan their timing, and having more than 12
>hours to tell the parents themselves might really help them.

I think that's an excellent strategy, to which I'd only add that perhaps (if
laws allow) one might combine Susan's strategy with Collen's: Allow a 1-time
"I won't tell unless asked" and then if there is a repeat performance, give the
kids a little bit of time to let parents know themselves. I would,
nonetheless, follow up, since a kid's version (particularly if that kid was
under the influence at the time) may vary widely from fact.

I only have a 10 yo (who already shows signs that I will certainly be tested,
although substances scare him so I may get off easy on that front), but since
DH works with college students I know how tricky this "when do I tell the
parents" thing can be...



-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 10

[Ann Porter]

"LFortier" > wrote in message
...
> dragonlady wrote:

> How about splitting hairs and promising not to volunteer the info, but
> tell them specifically that you're not going to lie if asked.

This sounds really good to me.

If I were the parent of a drinking teen, though, I'd want to know. I was in
a position where about 3-5 adults knew that my daughter was sexually active
before I did, and I like to think if I had known, she could have been spared
some really painful experiences.

Best,
Ann

[Beeswing]

My first reaction, honestly, was that I was glad I was only dealing with the
issue of whether or not kids should be allowed to drink out of garden hoses.

beeswing,
who is scared to think
what dilemmas the teenage years
may bring

[Bruce and Jeanne]

Scott Lindstrom wrote:
> >
> > Jeanne
>
> I would tell the mother about the beer blast. It's her house,
> she does have a right to know what goes on when she's outta
> town.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I just feel awkward because 1) what the
other neighbor said about not telling the mother; 2) the mother is
almost never home so I don't have any relationship with her or an
opportunity to talk to her ; and finally 3) oddly enough I do see the
son around and we're on nodding and "hi" terms. The son's actually a
fairly decent if misguided (or unguided) kid.

> Now, if the son is vindictive, I might be careful in my
> telling her, but still, she does have a right to know. *I*
> would certainly want to know if that happened at my house while
> I was gone (and if it got way out of hand, how can the mother
> not know?).
>

Well that's part of the dilemma - maybe she does know, so "telling her"
is pointless. I think one large issue is simply we don't know the
mother but we (at least three neighbors) have established at least a
passing relationship with the son. He, by the way, knows that I called
the police and he thanked me (one of the neighbors told him to stop by
and apologize to all the neighbors he disturbed).

Things just aren't as clear-cut as one would expect...

Jeanne

[Mary Gordon]

All I can tell you is that as a 17 year old, I would have walked home
barefoot over broken glass before I would agree call someone to come
and get me who was going to rat me out to my parents. I also would
have been stupid enough to get in a car with someone who was slightly
drunk or stoned before I would catch a drive from someone's mom who
felt it was her duty to tell on me. Not terribly bright in the big
picture, but there you go.

If you really want your daughter and her friends to use use, do so
with no recriminations or ratting out. Just do the driving and keep
your trap shut, or they won't call you when they should.

Mary G.

[Daye]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:46:36 EDT, dragonlady
> wrote:

>But what would you do? Would you be willing to get a group of kids home
>safely with a promise to NOT tell their parents? If you were one of the
>other parents, would YOU prefer that I get them home and NOT tell, or
>refuse to get them home without telling?

My mother regularly let drunk friends stay the night at our house.
She didn't want them driving home. She also would drive friends home
and pick up me and/or friends if they were caught with a drunk person.

She never promised not to tell their parents. However, the deal was
that she wouldn't tell them unless they asked. In other words, she
didn't pick up the phone to tell them, but if she met them in the
store and they asked about it, she would tell the truth.

Quite frankly, she never told the other parents because they never
asked.

--
Daye
Momma to Jayan
EDD 11 Jan 2004

[Colleen Porter]

Nathan Jones > wrote in message >...
> I would certainly agree to not tell the other parents. Safety should
> always come first.

I would argue that it is also a matter of short-term safety versus
long term safety. In the short-term, silence indeed helps ensure that
the teens get home safely. In the long-term, you are depriving a
family from being able to develop strategies for dealing with their
teen's problem drinking.

I'm always astonished at the complexity of the love-hate relationship
between parents and teens. We were hosting a group of girls some
years ago, and in the morning while everyone was showering, I went out
running, returning in plenty of time to cook breakfast. "Oh, that's
so cool that you were exercising," one of the girls said. "I want to
be like you when I grow up, not like my mother."

The other girls burst out with protests, because apparently her mom is
really "cool." And I've met her mom, and I concur. But to one's own
offspring, it may be impossible to be cool.

Imagine a family were the parents are uncaring tyrants who don't
appreciate their teenager's individuality, who interfere in their
young person's choices, assign chores that are tantamount to slave
labor and who would punish the teen severely if they ever learned
about substance abuse.

Then imagine a family where caring parents try to connect with their
kid, when each attempt at contact is met by cold silence and rolling
eyes, where the teenager routinely hastens from the front door of the
home to the closed door of the bedroom, talking to friends on the
phone for hours but offering only grudging monosyllables in reply to
the parents' concerned queries.

Now imagine that these two families are really the same one, only seen
from two different perspectives.

That is the reality in many homes, and part of the problem in deciding
what to do in cases like this. When a young person tells you that
their parents would "kill them" if they knew, one has no way of
telling if they really would kill them, of if the youth is
horribilizing.

Colleen Kay Porter