Kids drinking out of a garden hose

[Beeswing]

We just had a girl come over for a play date with our daughter. She'd never
been here before, so I tried to be extra conscientious about things like not
letting her go out of our yard unwatched, me dropping in to check in with them
frequently, those sorts of things (both kids are 8, btw). My husband took them
for a long walk to the beach, and, because he was carrying no water, let the
kids drink out of garden hoses on the way there and back. He did not know (or
ask) the people who owned the hoses if this was okay.

I would not have presumed to use another person's hose without asking, and I
would not have assumed, especially for somebody else's kid, that the water was
safe to drink. I think he did the wrong thing. He thinks I'm crazy. The other
girl's parent, as it turned out, laughed about the whole thing when he heard
about it later. But that's not the point.

My husband claims that it never would have occurred to him that *anyone* would
think that the kids shouldn't be drinking out of garden hoses. I find that hard
to believe; in fact, I'm not even convinced drinking water out of a hose is
necessarily safe. He wants me to ask here if anyone else besides me would mind
having their kid drinking out of a hose. So does anyone here have an opinion?

Please, moderators, let this have enough parenting content! ;) This is
something I need to know!

beeswing,
hitting SEND

[Beeswing]

My husband wants me to clarify that it was only one hose at only one house and
the water was already running. For what it's worth. (As far as I'm concerned:
Absolutely nothing.)

We await your wise guidance, members of mkm.

beeswing

[illecebra]

I grew up drinking out of my parents' hose on hot summer days, and
would let my son do the same. However, the same does not hold true
for random stragers' hoses, especially on older homes where lead pipes
might not have been replaced where they only lead to an outdoor faucet
if the homeowner doesn't normally drink from the hose.

just my $0.02

Susan

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:18:54 EDT, (Beeswing) wrote:

>We just had a girl come over for a play date with our daughter. She'd never
>been here before, so I tried to be extra conscientious about things like not
>letting her go out of our yard unwatched, me dropping in to check in with them
>frequently, those sorts of things (both kids are 8, btw). My husband took them
>for a long walk to the beach, and, because he was carrying no water, let the
>kids drink out of garden hoses on the way there and back. He did not know (or
>ask) the people who owned the hoses if this was okay.
>
>I would not have presumed to use another person's hose without asking, and I
>would not have assumed, especially for somebody else's kid, that the water was
>safe to drink. I think he did the wrong thing. He thinks I'm crazy. The other
>girl's parent, as it turned out, laughed about the whole thing when he heard
>about it later. But that's not the point.
>
>My husband claims that it never would have occurred to him that *anyone* would
>think that the kids shouldn't be drinking out of garden hoses. I find that hard
>to believe; in fact, I'm not even convinced drinking water out of a hose is
>necessarily safe. He wants me to ask here if anyone else besides me would mind
>having their kid drinking out of a hose. So does anyone here have an opinion?
>
>Please, moderators, let this have enough parenting content! ;) This is
>something I need to know!
>
>beeswing,
>hitting SEND

[Scott Lindstrom]

Beeswing wrote:
> We just had a girl come over for a play date with our daughter. She'd never
> been here before, so I tried to be extra conscientious about things like not
> letting her go out of our yard unwatched, me dropping in to check in with them
> frequently, those sorts of things (both kids are 8, btw). My husband took them
> for a long walk to the beach, and, because he was carrying no water, let the
> kids drink out of garden hoses on the way there and back. He did not know (or
> ask) the people who owned the hoses if this was okay.
>
> I would not have presumed to use another person's hose without asking, and I
> would not have assumed, especially for somebody else's kid, that the water was
> safe to drink. I think he did the wrong thing. He thinks I'm crazy. The other
> girl's parent, as it turned out, laughed about the whole thing when he heard
> about it later. But that's not the point.
>
> My husband claims that it never would have occurred to him that *anyone* would
> think that the kids shouldn't be drinking out of garden hoses. I find that hard
> to believe; in fact, I'm not even convinced drinking water out of a hose is
> necessarily safe. He wants me to ask here if anyone else besides me would mind
> having their kid drinking out of a hose. So does anyone here have an opinion?
>
> Please, moderators, let this have enough parenting content! ;) This is
> something I need to know!
>
> beeswing,
> hitting SEND


If I understand this, your BH had 2 thirsty kids and walked by
a running hose, and they drank from it?

I'm not sure what's objectionable about this, speaking as someone
who drank from a hose a lot while young. My kids have drunk
water from hoses as well. As long as the water supply is okay --
and we live in a city with good water -- I don't see a problem.

I mean, the hose wasn't lying in a festering pool of manure before
they drank, was it? I'm not sure why it wouldn't be safe.

Scott DD 10 and DS 7

[just me]

"Beeswing" > wrote in message
...
> We just had a girl come over for a play date with our daughter. She'd
never
> been here before, so I tried to be extra conscientious about things like
not
> letting her go out of our yard unwatched, me dropping in to check in with
them
> frequently, those sorts of things (both kids are 8, btw). My husband took
them
> for a long walk to the beach, and, because he was carrying no water, let
the
> kids drink out of garden hoses on the way there and back. He did not know
(or
> ask) the people who owned the hoses if this was okay.
>
> I would not have presumed to use another person's hose without asking, and
I
> would not have assumed, especially for somebody else's kid, that the water
was
> safe to drink. I think he did the wrong thing. He thinks I'm crazy. The
other
> girl's parent, as it turned out, laughed about the whole thing when he
heard
> about it later. But that's not the point.
>
> My husband claims that it never would have occurred to him that *anyone*
would
> think that the kids shouldn't be drinking out of garden hoses. I find that
hard
> to believe; in fact, I'm not even convinced drinking water out of a hose
is
> necessarily safe. He wants me to ask here if anyone else besides me would
mind
> having their kid drinking out of a hose. So does anyone here have an
opinion?
>
> Please, moderators, let this have enough parenting content! ;) This is
> something I need to know!


Well......*I* have a real issue with people just traipsing into my yard just
because they feel like they have a right to but do not know me, do not care
to meet me, and are not there to interact with me. And, if they also feel
the need to avail themselves of the water which I have to pay to use they
are doubly in my bad graces. That is impolite, at best. Now, if they rang
my bell and asked me I'd be thrilled to get them a drink of cold water from
my fridge, especially if kids were involved. It's all about boundaries and
being considerate, imo.

Now, otoh, my husband would probably not have any issue with all of that. I
say that because when I blew up when the neighborhood kids were cutting
through our yard on their way home from school [at a previous home] he did
not see that as a boundary violation but being smart since there were no
sidewalks and the street was quite busy.

And, just to throw something else into the mix, you do not know what has
been flowing through that hose nor what has been in contact with it
recently. It is quite possible that that lawn had been recently treated
with pesticides and the hose was covered with them. It would be quite
unhealthy for those pesticides to be ingested.

-Aula


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[LarryDoc]

In article >,
(Beeswing) wrote:

> We just had a girl come over for a play date with our daughter. She'd never
> been here before, so I tried to be extra conscientious about things like not
> letting her go out of our yard unwatched, me dropping in to check in with
> them
> frequently, those sorts of things (both kids are 8, btw). My husband took
> them
> for a long walk to the beach, and, because he was carrying no water, let the
> kids drink out of garden hoses on the way there and back. He did not know (or
> ask) the people who owned the hoses if this was okay.
>
> I would not have presumed to use another person's hose without asking, and I
> would not have assumed, especially for somebody else's kid, that the water
> was
> safe to drink. I think he did the wrong thing. He thinks I'm crazy. The other
> girl's parent, as it turned out, laughed about the whole thing when he heard
> about it later. But that's not the point.
>
> My husband claims that it never would have occurred to him that *anyone*
> would
> think that the kids shouldn't be drinking out of garden hoses. I find that
> hard
> to believe; in fact, I'm not even convinced drinking water out of a hose is
> necessarily safe. He wants me to ask here if anyone else besides me would
> mind
> having their kid drinking out of a hose. So does anyone here have an opinion?

Here's my thinking:

There are three issues with garden hoses. The first is whether or not
the material it's made of is safe for drinking water applications. Some
are, some clearly are not. (I believe in the last few years, USA
regulations require appropriate labeling.)

The second is whether or not there is water sitting in the hose that
would be consumed. That is potentially a more significant problem.
Sitting water in a hose not "approved" for drinking water is a double
no-no.

The third is that, especially in older homes, the plumbing to outside
hose bibs is not necessarily nice hosehold copper and might more likely
be galvanized pipe and, if old enough, using lead solder.

In general, I would not drink from a hose *at all* and even if it was an
"approved" material, I would let the water run through, clear and cool
before drinking.

A simpler solution is to disconnect the hose and drink from the hose
bib, with the #3 caveat. Of course, in an emergency, one might have to
make some concessions.

--Larry

--

Dr. Larry Bickford, O.D.
Family Practice Optometry Eye & Vision Care
The EyecareConnection
http://www.eyecarecontacts.comREMOVE-SPAMTRAP
email: larrybic at mac dot com

[just me]

"Beeswing" > wrote in message
...
> We just had a girl come over for a play date with our daughter. She'd
never
> been here before, so I tried to be extra conscientious about things like
not
> letting her go out of our yard unwatched, me dropping in to check in with
them
> frequently, those sorts of things (both kids are 8, btw). My husband took
them
> for a long walk to the beach, and, because he was carrying no water, let
the
> kids drink out of garden hoses on the way there and back. He did not know
(or
> ask) the people who owned the hoses if this was okay.
>
> I would not have presumed to use another person's hose without asking, and
I
> would not have assumed, especially for somebody else's kid, that the water
was
> safe to drink. I think he did the wrong thing. He thinks I'm crazy. The
other
> girl's parent, as it turned out, laughed about the whole thing when he
heard
> about it later. But that's not the point.
>
> My husband claims that it never would have occurred to him that *anyone*
would
> think that the kids shouldn't be drinking out of garden hoses. I find that
hard
> to believe; in fact, I'm not even convinced drinking water out of a hose
is
> necessarily safe. He wants me to ask here if anyone else besides me would
mind
> having their kid drinking out of a hose. So does anyone here have an
opinion?
>
> Please, moderators, let this have enough parenting content! ;) This is
> something I need to know!
>

/follows up on own answer because insomnia reminds me:

You also have no certainty that the hose is running potable water. Around
here a lot of folks are using "gray water" to water lawns. That is water
that has been recycled through the city sewage plant. They require
homeowners to sign that no one will be using it for drinking or cooking due
to it's source. We also have a number of folks with artesian wells to water
lawns and you wouldn't want to drink that water ever ever ever.

And, as if that isn't enough.....I have enough trouble getting my own kid to
turn off the hose when he is done with it. I am assuming that the hose that
was found running was attached to a sprinkler, which would be the only
reason I could see someone leaving a hose running unattended for more than a
few seconds. Do they want to get the blame from the irate home owner coming
outside for leaving the hose on for who knows how long and high water bills
etc etc etc when it was little johnny who lives there and was filling up his
squirt gun a half hour ago? Do they [does anyone] want to deal with that
irate homeowner? Once again, boundaries are my issue here. I'm not saying
that your spouse went in, undid the sprinkler and took a drink, etc. Just
pointing out possible areas where homeowners could readily take issue.

-Aula


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[dragonlady]

In article >,
(Beeswing) wrote:

> My husband wants me to clarify that it was only one hose at only one house and
> the water was already running. For what it's worth. (As far as I'm concerned:
> Absolutely nothing.)
>
> We await your wise guidance, members of mkm.
>
> beeswing
>

Actually, I think that IS worth something: I had visions of your
husband walking up to a stranger's house and turning on the outside
water hose to give the kids a drink of water!

I drink out of hoses all the time, and would have no concerns about the
safety. In fact, I LIKE the way it feels to drink water out of a
running hose, but I'm told I'm odd in many ways. The water is the same
as the water that comes into your sink, and, if you've let the water run
for a while, chances of there being anything nasty to drink are pretty
remote.

I don't know if I would pick up a strangers' hose, but suspect that if I
were with thirsty kids, and the water was already running, and it didn't
involve any serious trespassing (didn't have to open a gate or anything)
-- I'd probably have done the same thing that your husband did.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

[Allen McIntosh]

In article >,
Beeswing > wrote:
>My husband wants me to clarify that it was only one hose at only one house and
>the water was already running. For what it's worth. (As far as I'm concerned:
>Absolutely nothing.)
>We await your wise guidance, members of mkm.

OK, I'll bite :-)

In the spring when I pump out the low spots in our back yard (lest
ducks and the local Canada goose flock take up residence) the garden
hoses are used to carry the (rather muddy) water to the street. Ditto
for the winter when the normal sump pump exhaust pipe freezes.

I don't let kids drink out of them.

[Wasn't there a recent article in Consumers Reports on trace chemicals
leaching into the water?]

[Beeswing]

Aula wrote:

>I am assuming that the hose that
>was found running was attached to a sprinkler, which would be the only
>reason I could see someone leaving a hose running unattended for more than a
>few seconds.

It was just sitting out next to the sidewalk, running. There was nothing
attached to the end of it.

beeswing

[Beeswing]

Scott DD 10 and DS 7 wrote:

>I mean, the hose wasn't lying in a festering pool of manure before
>they drank, was it? I'm not sure why it wouldn't be safe.

You only know where the hose is the minute you grab it. While the exact
scenario you describe is unlikely, you *don't* know where that hose has been or
what it's been used for. That doesn't mean one needs to get paranoid about it,
but it's still something to keep in mind. There's a lot of dirt (*gasp*),
pesticides, fertilizer of various sorts, and whatall in a garden, plus you
don't know if the innards of the hose are clean. That's without even getting
into the question of the quality of the water. I personally don't know how
worried one should be (maybe not at all, which is why I asked the question),
but I do believe there is an issue there to consider, at least.

beeswing

[Beeswing]

>Well......*I* have a real issue with people just traipsing into my yard just
>because they feel like they have a right to but do not know me, do not care
>to meet me, and are not there to interact with me. And, if they also feel
>the need to avail themselves of the water which I have to pay to use they
>are doubly in my bad graces. That is impolite, at best.

I agree with this and said as much to my husband. He told me the hose was lying
next to the sidewalk already running, so he didn't enter the yard or turn the
hose on. I'm not defending him, just passing along what he said.

>Now, if they rang
>my bell and asked me I'd be thrilled to get them a drink of cold water from
>my fridge, especially if kids were involved. It's all about boundaries and
>being considerate, imo.

I live in the city and wouldn't have felt comfortable about having him do this,
either, unless he knew the person he was asking.

>And, just to throw something else into the mix, you do not know what has
>been flowing through that hose nor what has been in contact with it
>recently. It is quite possible that that lawn had been recently treated
>with pesticides and the hose was covered with them. It would be quite
>unhealthy for those pesticides to be ingested.

You'll see I just posted as much to Scott. Thanks.

beeswing

[Scott Lindstrom]

In article >,
(Allen McIntosh) wrote:

> In article >,
> Beeswing > wrote:
> >My husband wants me to clarify that it was only one hose at only one
> >house and
> >the water was already running. For what it's worth. (As far as I'm
> >concerned:
> >Absolutely nothing.)
> >We await your wise guidance, members of mkm.
>
> OK, I'll bite :-)
>
> In the spring when I pump out the low spots in our back yard (lest
> ducks and the local Canada goose flock take up residence) the garden
> hoses are used to carry the (rather muddy) water to the street. Ditto
> for the winter when the normal sump pump exhaust pipe freezes.
>
> I don't let kids drink out of them.
>
> [Wasn't there a recent article in Consumers Reports on trace chemicals
> leaching into the water?]
>

My goodness you people all use your garden hoses
for things other than gardening :) We have no
pools in the neighborhood, or low spots, or ponds.
Hoses here are used just for watering lawns and
gardens, occasionally for washing down driveways,
although I consider that a phenomenal waste of
water.

I have no clue what our hoses are made of. The kids
drink water from them maybe 2x a year. I think they
are more likely to trip going up the stairs to the
kitchen and hurt themselves than to acquire a
transitory bug from the hose or to be bothered by
a small chemical dose. It seems to me that the
interior of a hose, with no nutrients, and little
light, and chemically treated water, is not an ideal
spot for bacterial growth, especially considering
how hot they get when lying in the sun.

The OP had two tired thirsty kids on a walk, with a
hose running, attached to the house. It had been
running a while. Seemed like a no-brainer to me. ;)
This does not mean that I advocate constant hose
imbibing -- but in a pinch, why not?

scott DD 10 ds 7

[Lee]

said:
>
>In article >,
>Beeswing > wrote:
>>My husband wants me to clarify that it was only one hose at only one house and
>>the water was already running. For what it's worth. (As far as I'm concerned:
>>Absolutely nothing.)
>>We await your wise guidance, members of mkm.
>
>OK, I'll bite :-)
>
>In the spring when I pump out the low spots in our back yard (lest
>ducks and the local Canada goose flock take up residence) the garden
>hoses are used to carry the (rather muddy) water to the street. Ditto
>for the winter when the normal sump pump exhaust pipe freezes.

That would be illegal here. Any water that leaves your property is
supposed to be going by way of your sewer line connection.

My rule of thumb for hoses in the summer is that if the water is cool,
it's coming from the bib and should be ok to drink. If it's hot, it's
been sitting in the hose, and we don't know what's in it.

I would want to see that the hose is connected to a hose bib, because
otherwise I would likely be drinking somebody's swimming pool water.

[H Schinske]

>There are three issues with garden hoses. The first is whether or not
>the material it's made of is safe for drinking water applications. Some
>are, some clearly are not. (I believe in the last few years, USA
>regulations require appropriate labeling.)

When we bought our hose, my husband made sure it was one that was rated safe to
drink out of, in case anyone ever did. There were definitely at that time two
types of hoses available.

I would not have done it, but I think that one drink one time probably doesn't
matter.

--Helen

[Lee]

said:

>Exactly. Most people don't just leave hoses running water from the
>tap unless there's a sprinkler on the end or they are filling
>something.

The world is a very big place.
People around here often prefer to deep water, letting the
hose run lightly for long periods without a sprinkler to
promote evaporation.

[Mary Gordon]

I dunno about where you live, but here in Toronto, the water that
comes out of the exterior taps is the same as the water that comes out
of the interior taps - its treated, clean, safe to drink. I can't
imagine anyone getting shirty about a kid having a drink from their
hose.

I'm with your husband, I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Mary G.

[just me]

"Beeswing" > wrote in message
...
> Aula wrote:
>
> >I am assuming that the hose that
> >was found running was attached to a sprinkler, which would be the only
> >reason I could see someone leaving a hose running unattended for more
than a
> >few seconds.
>
> It was just sitting out next to the sidewalk, running. There was nothing
> attached to the end of it.


That is weird! Maybe someone had to run inside for a minute while watering
their flowers, who knows, or they have my son's twin who leaves the hose on
when they should have turned it off......

-Aula


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[just me]

"mountainspring" > wrote in message
...
> just me > wrote:
>
> > We also have a number of folks with artesian wells to water
> > lawns and you wouldn't want to drink that water ever ever ever.
>
>
> Getting OT here, but what is wrong with drinking from artesian wells??
> As I understand it, we have an artesian well as our main water source
> and the water from it has tested fine.
>

Our artesian wells are Florida ground water heavily accented with lime and
sulpher. Stinks and is not always potable due to seepage from things like
lateral fields. Our artesian well is less than 25 feet deep.

-Aula


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[Daye]

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 00:18:54 EDT, (Beeswing) wrote:

>He wants me to ask here if anyone else besides me would mind
>having their kid drinking out of a hose. So does anyone here have an opinion?

I drank out of our garden hose all the time when I was kid. Nothing
bad ever happened to me.

I would let my 8 year old drink from a hose. FWIW.

--
Daye
Momma to Jayan
EDD 11 Jan 2004

[Daye]

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:21:00 EDT, "Jeff Utz" >
wrote:

>I would agree. Every spring, my dad uses the water hose to drain the top of
>our pool. Now, what do you think would be in your kids' stomach if he used
>the hose to drain the pool, the flooded cellar (perhaps after a sewer leak),
>etc.? Sure, getting those things in the garden is no big deal, but getting
>them in a stomach is.

Anyone who has ever went swimming in a pool has swallowed water from
the pool. I don't see your point.

--
Daye
Momma to Jayan
EDD 11 Jan 2004

[Jeff Utz]

"Daye" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:21:00 EDT, "Jeff Utz" >
> wrote:
>
> >I would agree. Every spring, my dad uses the water hose to drain the top
of
> >our pool. Now, what do you think would be in your kids' stomach if he
used
> >the hose to drain the pool, the flooded cellar (perhaps after a sewer
leak),
> >etc.? Sure, getting those things in the garden is no big deal, but
getting
> >them in a stomach is.
>
> Anyone who has ever went swimming in a pool has swallowed water from
> the pool. I don't see your point.

The pool water I was referring to was the water that is on top of the
plastic cover before the pool or in the pool itself before the pool is
opened or before chlorine is added. So sorry I was not clear.

BTW, pool water is not very clean. I mean, how many people do you know who
shower well and clean their poop holes before going into pools. Most kids
under 7 or 8 I know don't take a bath every day. The chlorine helps a lot,
but it does not get all disease causing organisms.

Jeff

>
> --
> Daye
> Momma to Jayan
> EDD 11 Jan 2004
>

[Jeff Utz]

"Tamex" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:15:46 EDT, Darrell Tangman
> > wrote:
>
> >Beeswing > wrote:
> >> Aula wrote:
> >
> >> >I am assuming that the hose that
> >> >was found running was attached to a sprinkler, which would be the only
> >> >reason I could see someone leaving a hose running unattended for more
than a
> >> >few seconds.
> >
> >> It was just sitting out next to the sidewalk, running. There was
nothing
> >> attached to the end of it.
> >
> >Unless the hose was attached to a faucet visible from the street, I
> >would hesitate to assume that it was delivering potable water. It could
> >as easily be draining something (pool, water bed, whatever) that I
> >wouldn't much want kids drinking from.
>
> Exactly. Most people don't just leave hoses running water from the
> tap unless there's a sprinkler on the end or they are filling
> something. It could very well be draining something (possibly icky)
> if the hose was just running water onto the grass.

If the water is coming from a well, it may be cold (around 50 degrees F),
which would be a hint that the water is potable, though certainly no
guarantee. (However, if the drinking water is comes from a lake or
resarvoir, it might be about 80 degrees F even though it is fresh and
chlorinated.)

And even if the water is coming from a faucet, it might not be potable. For
example, my runs water directly into the pool from a pipe that is also
connected pool's plumbing. If the pump broke and the valve were open, the
water would run the other way from the pool circuit into the house plumbing.

> I might drink (and let kids drink) from my own garden hose, but I
> wouldn't drink out of a stranger's unattended garden hose if I could
> possibly help it.

Neither would I. Who knows what lives in the hose (ants, bacteria, or maybe
the hose tip acidently went down a drain).

Jeff

> --
> Tamex
>
> No matter how much Jell-o you put in the pool, you still can't walk on
water.
>
> **remove Tricky Dick to reply by e-mail**
>

[MarjiG]

In article >, Lee > writes:

>
>Between the chlorine and the dilution, there's nothing to worry about.
>Parents of infants are warned not to allow them to swallow too much
>water because of the volume effect. I've never heard a warning about
>pathogens.
>

I've heard them.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/pools_bacteria0526.html

-Marjorie

[Jeff Utz]

"Lee" > wrote in message
...
> Jeff said:
>
> >BTW, pool water is not very clean. I mean, how many people do you know
who
> >shower well and clean their poop holes before going into pools. Most kids
> >under 7 or 8 I know don't take a bath every day. The chlorine helps a
lot,
> >but it does not get all disease causing organisms.
>
> Between the chlorine and the dilution, there's nothing to worry about.
> Parents of infants are warned not to allow them to swallow too much
> water because of the volume effect. I've never heard a warning about
> pathogens.

In a community pool where my brother lives, there are occaisonal potty
accidents caused by the parents (like, when a parent is too busy talking and
ignores the kids pleas "But I have to go right now"). When this happens, the
pool is required to be shut down long engough for the entire water volume to
circulate through the filters after the offending material is removed. (A
few years ago, when there were a lot of these incidents, a member of the
community made a desert for a baking contest shaped like the pool. The cake
was topped with blue jello, and there were raisans in the jello to represent
floaters. This desert got 1st prize).

However, there are outbreaks of diarrheal disease caused by cryptosporidium
and Giradia and other pathogens in public pools. There pathogens are not
killed by chlorine, so the only way to deal with them is through fine
filters (a lot finer than the ones around pools) and by washing around the
anus well before swimming (washing this area is actually the reason for
showering before going into the pool -- getting smelly sweat and other dirt
in the pool is no big problem, although it does use up the chlorine a bit a
faster). The other thing is that these and other pathogens are often passed
in the stool (and left on the skin to get into pools unless one washes (and
not just wipes, which does not remove all the material)) long after the
symptoms have subsided, so someone who is spreading the disease may not know
(s)he has it (which is a reason why I was my hands after toileting).

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00032242.htm

I think there are few outbreaks like this each year, so it is not a huge
problem, except to the very young and very old who get sick, and a few of
the people in between.

Jeff

[E]

"Jeff Utz" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tamex" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:15:46 EDT, Darrell Tangman
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Beeswing > wrote:
> > >> Aula wrote:
> > >
> > >> >I am assuming that the hose that
> > >> >was found running was attached to a sprinkler, which would be the
only
> > >> >reason I could see someone leaving a hose running unattended for
more
> than a
> > >> >few seconds.
> > >
> > >> It was just sitting out next to the sidewalk, running. There was
> nothing
> > >> attached to the end of it.
> > >
> > >Unless the hose was attached to a faucet visible from the street, I
> > >would hesitate to assume that it was delivering potable water. It could
> > >as easily be draining something (pool, water bed, whatever) that I
> > >wouldn't much want kids drinking from.
> >
> > Exactly. Most people don't just leave hoses running water from the
> > tap unless there's a sprinkler on the end or they are filling
> > something. It could very well be draining something (possibly icky)
> > if the hose was just running water onto the grass.
>
> If the water is coming from a well, it may be cold (around 50 degrees F),
> which would be a hint that the water is potable, though certainly no
> guarantee. (However, if the drinking water is comes from a lake or
> resarvoir, it might be about 80 degrees F even though it is fresh and
> chlorinated.)

water coming from a well may or may not be potable. i have tested some
wells that are definately NOT potable for my job. i investigate hazardous
waste sites, sometimes in or near neighborhoods.


--
Edith
oht nak



>
> And even if the water is coming from a faucet, it might not be potable.
For
> example, my runs water directly into the pool from a pipe that is also
> connected pool's plumbing. If the pump broke and the valve were open, the
> water would run the other way from the pool circuit into the house
plumbing.
>
> > I might drink (and let kids drink) from my own garden hose, but I
> > wouldn't drink out of a stranger's unattended garden hose if I could
> > possibly help it.
>
> Neither would I. Who knows what lives in the hose (ants, bacteria, or
maybe
> the hose tip acidently went down a drain).
>
> Jeff
>
> > --
> > Tamex
> >
> > No matter how much Jell-o you put in the pool, you still can't walk on
> water.
> >
> > **remove Tricky Dick to reply by e-mail**
> >
>
>

[E]

"Scott Lindstrom" > wrote in message
...
> mountainspring wrote:
> > just me > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>We also have a number of folks with artesian wells to water
> >>lawns and you wouldn't want to drink that water ever ever ever.
> >
> >
> > Getting OT here, but what is wrong with drinking from artesian wells??
> > As I understand it, we have an artesian well as our main water source
> > and the water from it has tested fine.
>
> Wells around here are easily contaminated by
> pesticides. Not sure about artesian wells,
> which theoretically should be protected by
> an impervious layer above....
>
>
> Scott
>
artesian, as with any other kind of well may or may not be contaminated. it
depends on where the water is coming from, what it travels through, the
amount of time it takes to travel there, etc.
if it is traveling through fine sand, silt, and maybe a trace of clay, for a
long period of time, over a long distance, from an uncontaminated source, it
should be OK. traveling through limestone caves (basically pipework with no
filtration qualities), it's doubtful.
the impervious layer above only protects from what is above. if the source
is contaminated, you start out with contaminated water...
sorry for all the repetition...

--
Edith
oht nak

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
Daye > wrote:

*On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:21:00 EDT, "Jeff Utz" >
*wrote:
*
*>I would agree. Every spring, my dad uses the water hose to drain the top of
*>our pool. Now, what do you think would be in your kids' stomach if he used
*>the hose to drain the pool, the flooded cellar (perhaps after a sewer leak),
*>etc.? Sure, getting those things in the garden is no big deal, but getting
*>them in a stomach is.
*
*Anyone who has ever went swimming in a pool has swallowed water from
*the pool. I don't see your point.

Sure, but usually not in the springtime, when the top of the pool has a
lot of crap from the winter in it, and it hasn't been shocked yet.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Claire Petersky]

(Beeswing) wrote in message >...

Of course, I drank out of plenty of hoses as a kid, and I have been
known, even as an adult, to take a swig out of our garden hose.

But have you gone shopping for a hose lately? I was looking to replace
our hose for the front yard. Nearly every hose now has a warning -
about how it could cause birth defects or other problems due to the
chemicals that are in the hose.

I understand that the health concern with garden hoses is that your
basic garden hose has substances including toxic lead in it that keep
it flexible. Lead is very toxic and it is especially toxic to young
kids. Those substances leach into the water as it goes through the
hose and are not good for anyone. Drinking from a hose doesn't
immediately put you at risk, but doing it over time can do damage
because the chemicals build up in your tissue.

You can find hoses safe for drinking water -- usually at a local RV
Store, many boating stores, and some garden supply shops. Read the
label to make sure it's safe for drinking. I just read in an old
Consumer Reports yesterday that those hoses without labels generally
are unsafe for drinking water.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky )
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Singing with you at: http://www.tiferet.net/
Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky

[Diane M Wentzel]

dragonlady wrote:
>

> I drink out of hoses all the time, and would have no concerns about the
> safety. In fact, I LIKE the way it feels to drink water out of a
> running hose, but I'm told I'm odd in many ways. The water is the same
> as the water that comes into your sink, and, if you've let the water run
> for a while, chances of there being anything nasty to drink are pretty
> remote.
>

Actually, the water coming out of my hose is not the same as the water that
comes out of my sink. The water coming out of the hose comes directly from
our well. The water coming out of our sink runs through a water purification
system which filters out 5 times the legal limit of arsenic and many times
more than that the legal limit of radon.

You wouldn't get sick from drinking out of the hose once, but repeated ingestion
could make you sick.

Diane

[Cathy Kearns]

"E" > wrote in message
...
> EXCEPT you all seem to be assuming this water has been treated somehow,
and
> not water that comes directly out of an extra well in their yard that goes
> untreated and is just there to supply the extra needed to water the yard.
> If it is treated and/or city water, and the water has been running for a
> while, I see no problem. if the water had been sitting in the hose for a
> while, there is the potential for chemicals in the hose material leaching
> out into the water. depending on the chemical, how long you let the water
> run to cool it off, it may pose a problem.
> if the water is untreated, there could be some very big problems.
> Edith
> B.S. Water Resources (but I've been a Geologist for all my jobs...)

Which I guess is why the husband wanted to make the point
it was an already running hose, the water wasn't sitting in it.
If he could guarantee us he saw the hose was attached to a
hose bib, and the house in his beach neighborhood doesn't
have "dirty water" hookups for garden watering, then I'd
guess he'd be pretty much home free. (Here in
California I haven't run into a residential neighborhood
that has that hookup to conserve water, but I tend to be
more familiar with older neighborhoods.) I'd also
assume one who left their child with a dad probably
isn't the type to worry that one drink out of a possibly
lead leaching hose that has been running will give a child
brain damage.


> --
> Edith
> oht nak
>
>
> "dragonlady" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > (Beeswing) wrote:
> >
> > > My husband wants me to clarify that it was only one hose at only one
> house and
> > > the water was already running. For what it's worth. (As far as I'm
> concerned:
> > > Absolutely nothing.)
> > >
> > > We await your wise guidance, members of mkm.
> > >
> > > beeswing
> > >
> >
> > Actually, I think that IS worth something: I had visions of your
> > husband walking up to a stranger's house and turning on the outside
> > water hose to give the kids a drink of water!
> >
> > I drink out of hoses all the time, and would have no concerns about the
> > safety. In fact, I LIKE the way it feels to drink water out of a
> > running hose, but I'm told I'm odd in many ways. The water is the same
> > as the water that comes into your sink, and, if you've let the water run
> > for a while, chances of there being anything nasty to drink are pretty
> > remote.
> >
> > I don't know if I would pick up a strangers' hose, but suspect that if I
> > were with thirsty kids, and the water was already running, and it didn't
> > involve any serious trespassing (didn't have to open a gate or anything)
> > -- I'd probably have done the same thing that your husband did.
> >
> > meh
> > --
> > Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
> >
>

[MarjiG]

In article >,
(Claire Petersky) writes:

>
>But have you gone shopping for a hose lately? I was looking to replace
>our hose for the front yard. Nearly every hose now has a warning -
>about how it could cause birth defects or other problems due to the
>chemicals that are in the hose.
>

And ladders have warnings that they are tall. There is, no doubt, some
possibility that chemicals in the hose could be dangerous. I think the warning
is really there because of the much higher possibility that someone would
otherwise try to sue the hose manufacturer. Also, with the warning they don't
have to do any testing to prove that it would be safe to drink from their hose.


-Marjorie

[MarjiG]

In article >,
(Beeswing) writes:

>
>Personally, I'd rather make the choice for my child instead of having another
>parent making it for me. And I respect that others might feel the same. I
>might
>have ended up feeling differently about this, in the end, if the outcome of
>this discussion had been anywhere close to unanimous.

The neighbor had already trusted you to make decisions about her child.
I suspect the walk itself, not to mention the beach, exposed her to far more
danger than the hose.

>
>I really appreciate all of mkm's opinions and perspectives. I did keep my
>mind
>open. As it turns out, the discussion helped me to understand where my
>husband
>was coming from, but also cemented me in my own position.
>

Your position is probably the most correct one, but it is probably a case
where it isn't all that important to be right. I'm going to assume your
husband would know if non-potable hookups for lawn watering are common in your
area. Since the water was already running, it greatly reduced the risk from
chemicals from the hose itself and from previous uses of the hose. There is
still some possibilty that the hose was actually draining a pool or waterbed
or something.

It also appears that neither you or the other mom had previously felt strongly
enough to instruct the kids not to drink from hoses.

-Marjorie

[Beeswing]

MarjiG wrote:

>It also appears that neither you or the other mom had previously felt
>strongly enough to instruct the kids not to drink from hoses.

I also haven't instructed my child not to sit on a cactus, but that doesn't
mean it's because I don't feel strongly about it. It's because I haven't been
in the situation before to bring it up.

beeswing

[E]

"MarjiG" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,

> (Beeswing) writes:
>
> >
> >Personally, I'd rather make the choice for my child instead of having
another
> >parent making it for me. And I respect that others might feel the same. I
> >might
> >have ended up feeling differently about this, in the end, if the outcome
of
> >this discussion had been anywhere close to unanimous.
>
> The neighbor had already trusted you to make decisions about her child.
> I suspect the walk itself, not to mention the beach, exposed her to far
more
> danger than the hose.
>

good point!
--
Edith
oht nak

[Beeswing]

Edith wrote:

>[MarjiG wrote]
>> I suspect the walk itself, not to mention the beach, exposed her to far
>more danger than the hose.
>>
>
>good point!

Actually, we live in a very safe area for walking. Most of it is trails in park
lands. Any street walking includes sidewalks.

beeswing

[Jim]

(Beeswing) wrote:

>safe to drink. I think he did the wrong thing. He thinks I'm crazy. The other
>girl's parent, as it turned out, laughed about the whole thing when he heard
>about it later. But that's not the point.

I guess what happened can't be the point. The kids had fun. Dad
enjoyed walk. Water turned out safe to drink. Many (including me)
love to drink from a hose outside on a hot day. The other girl's
parent didn't have an issue. Did no harm to homeowner.

fwiw, and while I admit to being unaware of their hose water position,
I've read that the NRDC (a NY based environmental advocacy group) has
serious concerns with bottled water and have petitioned the US FDA to
improve bottled water labeling and disclosures, substantially
strengthening standards and starting a meaningful regulatory system.

Let's hope dh doesn't take some of that stuff on the next hike ;-)

--
Jim

[just me]

"Jeff Utz" > wrote in message
...
> Bottled water is not all it is cracked up to be.
>

That's for sure! Every so often the local news does a consumer's report
item on where the bottled water comes from. In many cases it comes out of
the tap, goes in the bottle, off to the store, and you pay a whole lot for
what you already have [around here the only potable water seems to be city
water unless you can stomach the sulpher water].

-Aula


---
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[Daye]

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:39:47 EDT, "Jeff Utz" >
wrote:

>Bottled water is not all it is cracked up to be.

Just saw a news report of an increase in cavities in young children
because they were drinking bottled water.

--
Daye
Momma to Jayan
EDD 11 Jan 2004

[just me]

"Daye" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:39:47 EDT, "Jeff Utz" >
> wrote:
>
> >Bottled water is not all it is cracked up to be.
>
> Just saw a news report of an increase in cavities in young children
> because they were drinking bottled water.
>

I have read reports that is because several brands of bottled water are not
out of the tap and, therefore, do not have added fluoride. Talk about mixed
blessings!

-Aula


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[Daye]

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:45:57 EDT, "just me" >
wrote:

>I have read reports that is because several brands of bottled water are not
>out of the tap and, therefore, do not have added fluoride. Talk about mixed
>blessings!

In the town where I grew up, pregnant women and young children were to
drink bottled water because the local water supply wasn't safe for
them. It had gyp in the water. As an ex-boyfriend once said, "You
can eat our water with a fork."

There are instances when bottled water is great, but I am beginning to
see that perhaps drinking it all the time can lead to problems too.

--
Daye
Momma to Jayan
EDD 11 Jan 2004

[illecebra]

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:56:47 -0400, Daye wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:39:47 EDT, "Jeff Utz" >
> wrote:
>
>>Bottled water is not all it is cracked up to be.
>
> Just saw a news report of an increase in cavities in young children
> because they were drinking bottled water.

Flouride toothpaste does just fine to prevent the problem. My family has
been drinking nothing but well water for hundreds of years. (Literally, I
grew up on the old family farmstead). The real cavity problems were back
before flouride toothpaste was widely used. Two bottled water companies
have purchased land near where my parents live to draw from their water
table.

I'd much rather have to get my flouride elsewhere than to have to drink
the chlorine and other gross stuff that's in city water.

Susan

[Beeswing]

illecebra wrote:
>
>I'd much rather have to get my flouride elsewhere than to have to drink
>the chlorine and other gross stuff that's in city water.

The thread hasn't had anything to do with my original topic for a while. How
'bout we change the thread title?

Thanks.

beeswing

[MarjiG]

In article >, "illecebra"
> writes:

>
>Flouride toothpaste does just fine to prevent the problem. My family has
>been drinking nothing but well water for hundreds of years. (Literally, I
>grew up on the old family farmstead). The real cavity problems were back
>before flouride toothpaste was widely used. Two bottled water companies
>have purchased land near where my parents live to draw from their water
>table.
>

Some well water has naturally occuring fluoride. Fluoride in drinking water
can make a difference even if fluoride toothpaste is used. (Of course things
like genetics, diet etc. also make a difference.)

-Marjorie

[Labra Thoren]

Even with the fluoride in the tap water, Lillian still has fluoride tablets
at night (as well as normal toothpaste). We drink bottled water often, but
it is more for the "taste", we just like it better. :o)

--
As Always,
Anji


"illecebra" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:56:47 -0400, Daye wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:39:47 EDT, "Jeff Utz" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Bottled water is not all it is cracked up to be.
> >
> > Just saw a news report of an increase in cavities in young children
> > because they were drinking bottled water.
>
> Flouride toothpaste does just fine to prevent the problem. My family has
> been drinking nothing but well water for hundreds of years. (Literally, I
> grew up on the old family farmstead). The real cavity problems were back
> before flouride toothpaste was widely used. Two bottled water companies
> have purchased land near where my parents live to draw from their water
> table.
>
> I'd much rather have to get my flouride elsewhere than to have to drink
> the chlorine and other gross stuff that's in city water.
>
> Susan
>
>