keeping track of libary books

[Karen G]

I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
in their basket so we can return them?

Karen G

[David desJardins]

Karen G writes:
> I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
> library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
> extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
> the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
> in their basket so we can return them?

It seems to me that it's pretty much just a financial issue. How much
does it cost to lose the occasional book; how important is that in the
scope of your family finances. Borrowing books from the library is
still way cheaper than buying them, even if you lose an occasional book
and pay for it. The money you pay goes to a worthwhile cause
(supporting the library). So I wouldn't get worked up over it, unless
you can't afford it. Of course, that's just one opinion.

David desJardins

[Karen G]

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:36:32 EDT, David desJardins
> wrote:

>It seems to me that it's pretty much just a financial issue. How much
>does it cost to lose the occasional book; how important is that in the
>scope of your family finances. Borrowing books from the library is
>still way cheaper than buying them, even if you lose an occasional book
>and pay for it. The money you pay goes to a worthwhile cause
>(supporting the library). So I wouldn't get worked up over it, unless
>you can't afford it. Of course, that's just one opinion.
>
> David desJardins

The money isn't an issue. I think its a "pride" problem on my part more
than anything to be honest. I absolutely can't stand losing things and
I love finding things. As a parent, the main thing I want to do is
make sure that my girls get the sense that you should put things back
where they go so that you can find them when you need it--be it shoes,
jackets, books, or toys.

Karen

[Jeff]

"David desJardins" > wrote in message
...
(...)


> In that case, I probably wouldn't emphasize library books as an example
> of that. To me, when you talk about lost library books, the emphasis is
> on your obligation to the lender, and on not losing things for that
> reason.

(...)

I would also add that it is probably good to emphasize the obligation to the
lender includes returning the books in good condition and (when possible),
promptly, so that others can use them.

Jeff

[Marijke]

Easy. When my kids were younger, library books were kept in the same spot in
the living room where they could be seen. If they neglected to put them
there, when we found them, they were not permitted to take any other books
out of the library for X amount of time. It didn't take long for them to
learn that library books stayed in the living room or were returned there.

Marijke
in Montreal



"Karen G" > wrote in message
...
> I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
> library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
> extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
> the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
> in their basket so we can return them?
>
> Karen G
>

[Penny Gaines]

David desJardins wrote in >:

>> I love finding things. As a parent, the main thing I want to do is
>> make sure that my girls get the sense that you should put things back
>> where they go so that you can find them when you need it--be it shoes,
>> jackets, books, or toys.

With shoes and jackets, you make sure it is easy to put them away, with
hooks they can reach. It has to be convenient for where you come in the
door - if you expect them to keep their outdoor clothes in their bedrooms
then they will never get put away. Then you nag them to do it whenever you
come in, until it is an ingrained habit.

Books and toys are harder to deal with: my kids don't want to put them away,
because they are permanently "in the middle of a game".

> In that case, I probably wouldn't emphasize library books as an example
> of that. To me, when you talk about lost library books, the emphasis is
> on your obligation to the lender, and on not losing things for that

Library books are difficult, because you often read them over a few days,
and they need to be convenient for that. I suppose you have to insist
they put them in the basket when they have finished with them. And if
the kid lost it, make the kid pay the fines.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

[Kevin Karplus]

In article >, David desJardins wrote:
> Karen G writes:
>> The money isn't an issue. I think its a "pride" problem on my part more
>> than anything to be honest. I absolutely can't stand losing things and
>> I love finding things. As a parent, the main thing I want to do is
>> make sure that my girls get the sense that you should put things back
>> where they go so that you can find them when you need it--be it shoes,
>> jackets, books, or toys.
>
> In that case, I probably wouldn't emphasize library books as an example
> of that. To me, when you talk about lost library books, the emphasis is
> on your obligation to the lender, and on not losing things for that
> reason.

I agree that the emphasis with library books is that they are not
ours, so we have to be extra careful with them. We keep ours on top
of the piano, and go through the stack of books on the floor at least
once a week looking for library books that may not have made it back there.

> Nor would I emphasize shoes or jackets and the like, because,
> in practice, most of the inconvenience from losing those things falls on
> you, not them. (Most of the time, you'll have to help find those
> things, to keep on your own schedule.) The area where the point is
> going to be clearest is regarding their own things that are important to
> them: toys are a good example. Help them to establish clear places to
> put things (much clutter arises, imho, because there isn't an
> appropriate place for something, or because the place that's been
> assigned to it is already too cluttered or inconvenient).

Not in our house. Clutter arises because projects don't get
finished---all of us have things scattered all over that we are "still
working on". Having a place for things is important (there is no way
we could put all the books away---we're short about 50 shelf feet for
that), but it is not the most important thing. To have a neat house,
everyone must believe that a neat house is important, that it is
worth putting in the effort to achieve, and that it is more important
than conflicting goals (like having lots of stuff or having all one's
art materials spread out for simultaneous viewing, or being able to
move from project to project without setup and cleanup overhead, or
collecting found objects when you take walks, ...).

Although there are times when I wished I lived in neater surroundings,
I have not been willing to make the sacrifices that would be necessary
to allow it to happen.

> And set an example by doing the same with your own things.

This may be the most important, and it is certainly where our
household falls down on neatness. None of us are good about putting
things away. But we ARE good about returning library books, and
rarely lose clothing (one stolen lunch box and one jacket are about
all we've lost in 2 years years of public schools).

Some lessons do stick though---my son much prefers playing with my
lego set to playing with his, because all the fiddly lego technic
pieces are sorted into a fishing tackle box, and it is easy to find
the ones we need. He is pretty good about about helping sort out the
pieces when we take something apart also, because he sees the value of
a neatly arranged parts bin. He keeps his K'nex well sorted in a
fishing tackle box also, but his lego collection has too many
one-of-a-kind pieces (mainly from garage sale finds---we'd never buy
the builds-only-one thing junk that lego is pushing).

Incidentally, lego has finally recognized how much they were ****ing
parents off with their recent "trading-card" mentality and have
started offering "designer kits" that are versatile and inspire
creativity. I haven't bought one yet, but probably will for this
holiday season---they look reasonably priced and well designed. I
don't know if the stores will have them---you may have to go to the
lego catalog or on-line.

--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

[Scott Lindstrom]

You sound very organized ;) We have library books
scattered hither and yon all over our house, mostly
because everyone reads books in about 4 or 5
separate locations.

We have temporarily lost a couple books, and even paid
for one that we subsequently unearthed somewhere in the
house (We got the $4.99 back). Currently we have a
copy of Nickelodeon magazine gone missing in the
house somewhere (my wife swears it was returned --
maybe so, but the library doesn't think so).

We are fortunate that the Madison library does not
charge overdue fines for kids' books/magazines. And
you can check due dates/renew online.

I guess my suggestion to the OP: You can't keep track
of everything, and you should accept that and pay
the fines that come your way. Think of it as
supporting the library ;)

Scott DD 10 and DS 7, just finished reading 'Stiff'

Marijke wrote:
> Easy. When my kids were younger, library books were kept in the same spot in
> the living room where they could be seen. If they neglected to put them
> there, when we found them, they were not permitted to take any other books
> out of the library for X amount of time. It didn't take long for them to
> learn that library books stayed in the living room or were returned there.
>
> Marijke
> in Montreal
>
>
>
> "Karen G" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
>>library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
>>extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
>>the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
>>in their basket so we can return them?
>>
>>Karen G
>>
>
>
>

[Dana Netherton]

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:10:29 EDT, in article
>,
said...
> I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
> library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
> extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
> the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
> in their basket so we can return them?

Karen,

Sounds like you're asking how to balance the immediate urgent need to
find the book with the more long-term need to keep books where they can
be found. Right?

One way might to be put them both in a broader context: tidying. Not
necessarily "cleaning" (scrubbing or vacuuming) ... tidying. Putting
things "where they go" or (if something doesn't yet have a place where it
"goes") where they "should" go (once you (plural) come up with a place).

One way to "find" the Lost Book might be to have a Grand Tidying. Perhaps
to mark the start of the new school year, or some such. This shifts the
focus away from The Book.

With that done, you might then address the long-term problem by declaring
that the usual end-of-day "tidying up" includes putting library books in
a specific place where only library books go. (One pile for everyone's
books that have been finished and can be returned; another pile for each
boy's unfinished library books.) Thus the books are less likely to get
mislaid between library visits (and get lost).

We've just started doing the latter with our two lads (7 & 9 yo). So far,
so good.

We have also started having them pay their library fines out of their
allowance-money. I'm hoping that this will help them become conscious of
the issue as "an issue".

It *is* hard to keep track of due dates, in the Brave New World of
computerized checkouts that no longer involves putting specific cards
with specific due dates in specific books. On-line renewals (available
in our library system) are convenient, but they also add to the
confusion. After a few library visits and a few on-line renewals, you
can have a dozen library books in the house, each with a different due
date ... and nothing in writing in each book that says what that date is!

Our library does offer bookmarks stamped with that day's date, at the
checkout stations. We have lots of these bookmarks in the house, by now.
But we've found that it's not easy for a child to keep a bookmark
associated with a specific book. And it's not easy to update the date on
the bookmark when the book is renewed on-line by a parent.

So I recently began making a weekly on-line check of the library accounts
of all who will let me (at this point, that's all four of us), each
Saturday morning, so that I can see whose books need to be renewed before
the following Saturday ... and whose books have been renewed so many
times that they cannot be renewed (and therefore *must* be returned on
this Saturday's library trip).

This on-line check wouldn't help me find a lost book of course. For that,
I'm counting on the end-of-day "tidying up".

--
(Mr) Dana Netherton
Default address is a spam dump. Use it, and
I'll never see it. To reach me, e-mail:
dana 1 netherton 2 net,
where "1" = at, and "2" = dot

[Rosalie B.]

x-no-archive:yes

>On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:10:29 EDT, in article
>,
>said...
>> I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
>> library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
>> extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
>> the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
>> in their basket so we can return them?

My library in the city generated a computer slip with each checkout
with the title and the dates of the book. If you had something like
that, I'd have a place to post these things. I could also renew via
automated phone answering robot.

My library in the country still stamps the books with the due date.

In the old days, my mom would take us (walking) to the library once a
week. She could get 10 books, we could get two each. We picked out
our two, she picked out two for herself, and then she picked out 8
more - some to read aloud and some for us to read to ourselves.

I don't remember how she kept us from losing the books. Basically I
usually finished mine very quickly, so it wasn't a problem with not
having finished them.

When my kids started to go to the library, I got a list of books for
young people, and I'd go up to the library (very small rural library)
once a week and do an interlibrary loan for a couple of books, pick up
the ones I'd ordered and give them to my kids to read, and return them
the next week and repeat.

I don't remember there ever being an issue with library books. I
don't know if that's because I've blocked out the memory or if we in
fact didn't have any problem. Or both.

I did have more of a problem with SCHOOL library books getting lost
somewhere. i.e. books that the children took out of the school
library when I wasn't there so I didn't know what they had taken out,
or even that the book was a library book.

grandma Rosalie

[Elizabeth Gardner]

In article t>,
Dana Netherton > wrote:

e issue as "an issue".
>
> It *is* hard to keep track of due dates, in the Brave New World of
> computerized checkouts that no longer involves putting specific cards
> with specific due dates in specific books. On-line renewals (available
> in our library system) are convenient, but they also add to the
> confusion. After a few library visits and a few on-line renewals, you
> can have a dozen library books in the house, each with a different due
> date ... and nothing in writing in each book that says what that date is!
>

Oh, waaay too complicated for me! I don't get too many books out of the
library for my own sake, because I'm still working my way through things
we own that I want to read (courtesy of a compulsive book-buyer spouse),
but for our daughter's books, I just have a rule that we can't get any
more until we bring back the ones we have. I try to keep the computer
slip in the pocket of a backpack that we use only for library books.
For my own sanity, I've also banned taking videos from the library.
They have due dates varying from 3 to 7 days, depending on what kind of
tape it is, and an overdue fine of a buck a day. I'd rather rent at
Blockbuster--at least I know what the bottom line is there.

I've also used the strategy of taking the same number of books out every
time, so at least I know that if I have ten in hand, that's all there
is. But that only works some of the time. As far as I know, there's no
limit on how many the kids can take out at a time.

[Marijke]

Easy. When my kids were younger, library books were kept in the same spot in
the living room where they could be seen. If they neglected to put them
there, when we found them, they were not permitted to take any other books
out of the library for X amount of time. It didn't take long for them to
learn that library books stayed in the living room or were returned there.

Marijke
in Montreal



"Karen G" > wrote in message
...
> I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
> library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
> extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
> the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
> in their basket so we can return them?
>
> Karen G
>

[H Schinske]

wrote:

>Borrowing books from the library is
>still way cheaper than buying them, even if you lose an occasional book
>and pay for it. The money you pay goes to a worthwhile cause
>(supporting the library).

At our library, book replacement fees go to the library, but late fines do not
-- they go to some general city fund. I think the library fines per day now are
only twice what they were when I was first checking out books many years ago,
and there are no late fines on children's books.

Oh, and our library will also let you bring in another copy of the book rather
than the full replacement fee, which is frequently cheaper. I lucked out once
and got the same book secondhand for a dollar (it was in *excellent* condition,
better than the one I had checked out).

What's really a PITA now is that we will have books from three different
libraries (one public, two school) around the house to keep track of. Four, if
I start getting out scholarly stuff from the U.

--Helen

[LFortier]

Karen G wrote:
> I knew this was going to happen. It took three months. We can't find a
> library book. I was lucky to ask about it today, they were able to
> extend the due date. As a parent, how do I balance the need to "find"
> the book and get the kids to understand that we need to keep the books
> in their basket so we can return them?
>
> Karen G
>

That was just one of the situations where I had to remind
them to put the books in the proper place until we were all
sick of hearing me talk about it. Our big problem was
"losing" a library book among their own personal books. My
favorite tool is the receipt our library prints out of books
with their due dates - I stick it on the refrigerator and
then I only have to round up the books due that week.

Of course, since over the years I've paid so much in fines I
should have a wing of the library with my name on it, my
advice might not be worth much. :-)

Lesley

[chiam margalit]

Penny Gaines > wrote in message >...
> David desJardins wrote in >:
>
> >> I love finding things. As a parent, the main thing I want to do is
> >> make sure that my girls get the sense that you should put things back
> >> where they go so that you can find them when you need it--be it shoes,
> >> jackets, books, or toys.
>
> With shoes and jackets, you make sure it is easy to put them away, with
> hooks they can reach. It has to be convenient for where you come in the
> door - if you expect them to keep their outdoor clothes in their bedrooms
> then they will never get put away. Then you nag them to do it whenever you
> come in, until it is an ingrained habit.
>
> Books and toys are harder to deal with: my kids don't want to put them away,
> because they are permanently "in the middle of a game".
>
> > In that case, I probably wouldn't emphasize library books as an example
> > of that. To me, when you talk about lost library books, the emphasis is
> > on your obligation to the lender, and on not losing things for that
>
> Library books are difficult, because you often read them over a few days,
> and they need to be convenient for that. I suppose you have to insist
> they put them in the basket when they have finished with them. And if
> the kid lost it, make the kid pay the fines.

The last time we had this discussion, I think it was last spring, I
THOUGHT it was you, Penny, who gave me the idea of using a large
canvass bag to hold all our library books. In our entryway we have
Shaker wooden pegs all around the perimeter of the space. They're for
hanging coats, and that's where the library book bag lives as well.
When you read a book or watch a DVD from the library, you put it back
when you're done, so that anyone can return the contents at any time.
If it wasn't Penny who suggested this, I'm sorry, but I really did
think it was you, and it's worked out very well for out family, once
we paid the $20 someodd dollars in fines this summer! :-(

Marjorie

[Marijke]

"Scott Lindstrom" > wrote in message
...
>
> You sound very organized ;) We have library books
> scattered hither and yon all over our house, mostly
> because everyone reads books in about 4 or 5
> separate locations.
>

ROFLOL!! that's NOT a word usually used in association with me or my
household.
That rule was enacted because I knew that we'd be losing lots of library
books otherwise.

;-)
Marijke