Kids and NFL games

[Hillary Israeli]

I have a question about kids and sporting events. At what age do you all
think it appropriate to bring a kid to an NFL game? (that's National
Football League for those of you who may not be aware). I know that at
various concerts and sporting events I often see small children and think
to myself "gosh, isn't that kid a little too young for this kind of
thing?" But I don't really know...

Anyway, I have a newly-3 year old kid and tickets to an NFL game here in
Philadelphia in November. So, I'm wondering, can we bring him? I mean, I
know we CAN, but what are the things I'm not thinking of that might be a
problem?? They're special "club" tickets, so we will have access to an
indoor clubhouse area if the weather is a problem or he gets cold or
whatever.

I'm sure I'll get some disparate opinions. I look forward to reading them.

Thanks for any input,
-h.


--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Scott Lindstrom]

Hillary Israeli wrote:
> I have a question about kids and sporting events. At what age do you all
> think it appropriate to bring a kid to an NFL game? (that's National
> Football League for those of you who may not be aware). I know that at
> various concerts and sporting events I often see small children and think
> to myself "gosh, isn't that kid a little too young for this kind of
> thing?" But I don't really know...
>
> Anyway, I have a newly-3 year old kid and tickets to an NFL game here in
> Philadelphia in November. So, I'm wondering, can we bring him? I mean, I
> know we CAN, but what are the things I'm not thinking of that might be a
> problem?? They're special "club" tickets, so we will have access to an
> indoor clubhouse area if the weather is a problem or he gets cold or
> whatever.
>
> I'm sure I'll get some disparate opinions. I look forward to reading them.

Well, it wasn't the NFL, but my brother took
me and DS and DD to a baseball game (AAA) in
Memphis a couple years ago -- I think DS was
4. They quickly grew bored, so we couldn't
stay too long. I think a 3-yo would be very
bored at a football game -- you'll be in the
clubhouse a lot watching the 3-yo play on
the floor.

Scott DD 10 and DS 7

[Splanche]

>Anyway, I have a newly-3 year old kid and tickets to an NFL game here in
>Philadelphia in November. So, I'm wondering, can we bring him?

Are you planning on putting th 3 yr old in his own seat?
IMHO, football games are not really the place to bring "lap" children.
However, if you can afford a ticket for a 3 yr old, all the more power to you!!

We took both DD and DS to baseball games (minor league) at about 3yrs, and took
them to hockey games at about 3 1/2yrs.
word of warning:
The kids had a blast, but it wasn't like I got to pay attention to ANY of the
game. It was just a 3 hour foodfest.

- Blanche

[Kevin Karplus]

In article >, Hillary Israeli wrote:
> I have a question about kids and sporting events. At what age do you all
> think it appropriate to bring a kid to an NFL game? (that's National
> Football League for those of you who may not be aware). I know that at
> various concerts and sporting events I often see small children and think
> to myself "gosh, isn't that kid a little too young for this kind of
> thing?" But I don't really know...
>
> Anyway, I have a newly-3 year old kid and tickets to an NFL game here in
> Philadelphia in November. So, I'm wondering, can we bring him? I mean, I
> know we CAN, but what are the things I'm not thinking of that might be a
> problem?? They're special "club" tickets, so we will have access to an
> indoor clubhouse area if the weather is a problem or he gets cold or
> whatever.

I think that 80 is too young to go to an NFL game---I have trouble
imagining a more boring activity and don't understand why so many
adults pay real money to go.

The issues with bringing young children to an event include
1) will the child be so disruptive as to spoil the pleasure of
other attendees?
2) will the child enjoy the event?
3) is it safe for the child at the event?
4) will the child learn anything from the event?

It would be very difficult for a child to disrupt an NFL game (unlike
a concert or theater performance). Whether the child would enjoy the
event depends on a lot of things, including whether they like hot dogs
and whether the parents enjoy the game and are willing to explain
things (American football is a rather arcane sport, not at all obvious
to a first-time viewer). NFL games shouldn't be particularly
dangerous, if you stay with the child at all times and avoid crowded
exits. What the child might learn and whether this is something you
want the child to learn I leave to your imagination.

--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

[Banty]

In article >, Hillary Israeli says...
>
>I have a question about kids and sporting events. At what age do you all
>think it appropriate to bring a kid to an NFL game? (that's National
>Football League for those of you who may not be aware). I know that at
>various concerts and sporting events I often see small children and think
>to myself "gosh, isn't that kid a little too young for this kind of
>thing?" But I don't really know...
>
>Anyway, I have a newly-3 year old kid and tickets to an NFL game here in
>Philadelphia in November. So, I'm wondering, can we bring him? I mean, I
>know we CAN, but what are the things I'm not thinking of that might be a
>problem?? They're special "club" tickets, so we will have access to an
>indoor clubhouse area if the weather is a problem or he gets cold or
>whatever.
>
>I'm sure I'll get some disparate opinions. I look forward to reading them.
>
>Thanks for any input,
>-h.


I would bring him - sure. The only issues that come to mind are toileting (be
prepared to leave to find the toilets at short notice, or use pullups or
somethign, depending on the particulars), and possible boredom (be prepared to
leave) although likely there's enough crowd rigamarole and excitement and stuff
to get and eat that that won't be an issue.

He'll probably love it and it'll be fine.

Else send me the ticket..

Banty

[David desJardins]

Hillary Israeli writes:
> I have a question about kids and sporting events. At what age do you all
> think it appropriate to bring a kid to an NFL game? (that's National
> Football League for those of you who may not be aware).

Never, really. American football is too pointlessly violent to expose
people who haven't made that decision for themselves. It's not healthy
for the people who participate in it, either.

When they are adults, of course they can decide for themselves if that's
the sort of thing they are interested in.

I suppose if the child were a teenager, and you presented it as some
sort of sociological study (look at this weird, violent American
culture), rather than as an entertainment, then it might be appropriate.
You can't protect children completely from the adult world they are
going to live in. I think most people probably get enough clues from
our culture about what football is like, though; they don't really need
to experience it firsthand. Besides, you probably get a better feeling
about what it's actually like on television (closer view and all that).

David desJardins

[Barb]

In article >,
(Hillary Israeli) wrote:

>Anyway, I have a newly-3 year old kid and tickets to an NFL game here in
>Philadelphia in November. So, I'm wondering, can we bring him? I mean, I
>know we CAN, but what are the things I'm not thinking of that might be a
>problem?? They're special "club" tickets, so we will have access to an
>indoor clubhouse area if the weather is a problem or he gets cold or
>whatever.

I would think that having the clubhouse would make it a lot easier to take a
little kid! My youngest started going to sporting events when she was a babe,
she was a tagalong, a lot. When she was really young, she didn't pay attention,
then around 3, the sights, and people, and all the vendors are interesting. I
would make sure to have some snacks, juice boxes, a book, and a toy that could
keep him quietly occupied, and bring him.

Even though he probably won't get into the game, there is a lot of stuff to
look at.

I got a kick out the response from the guy who said to take a teen to a game
and say "look at this horrible, violent American sport." Even if they aren't
fans, I would think most teens already know what football is. My fifth grade
daughter has played it in gym class.

---
Barb
--
Barb

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
David desJardins > wrote:

*Hillary Israeli writes:
*> I have a question about kids and sporting events. At what age do you all
*> think it appropriate to bring a kid to an NFL game? (that's National
*> Football League for those of you who may not be aware).
*
*Never, really. American football is too pointlessly violent to expose
*people who haven't made that decision for themselves. It's not healthy
*for the people who participate in it, either.

David, you crack me up. I had this exact same discussion one day when I
was a college student, actually sitting in Memorial Stadium watching the
Golden Bears play. The person with whom I was discussing it claimed he was
only there to "gather data" because he was writing a paper about the
violence in our culture and wanted to use football as an example.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Chris Himes]

(Hillary Israeli) wrote in message >...
>
> Anyway, I have a newly-3 year old kid and tickets to an NFL game here in
> Philadelphia in November. So, I'm wondering, can we bring him? I mean, I
> know we CAN, but what are the things I'm not thinking of that might be a
> problem?? They're special "club" tickets, so we will have access to an
> indoor clubhouse area if the weather is a problem or he gets cold or
> whatever.

We had success taking our son to football and basketball games
(college not pro) until he was about 2 and very mobile. Then he
wasn't interested enough again until about age 11-12. Inbetween I
found I spent so much of my time trying to entertain him, making trips
to the concession stands and restrooms, etc. that it just wasn't
enjoyable for me. My 7 year old cannot bear to sit through the AAA
baseball games in town, we have about 1 hour of time before he is
bored stiff. So, in my experience, I would say it won't be much fun
for either you or your son.

Chris

[David desJardins]

Barb writes:
> I got a kick out the response from the guy who said to take a teen to
> a game and say "look at this horrible, violent American sport." Even
> if they aren't fans, I would think most teens already know what
> football is. My fifth grade daughter has played it in gym class.

I really doubt it! They probably play touch football. This is really
totally different from NFL football (or even high school football).
Like it or not, a big part of NFL football is stuff like "hit the guy so
hard that he drops the ball". I really, really don't believe you have
that in 5th grade gym class.

Of course teens know what football is. I still think there's some merit
in actually observing it, as opposed to just knowing about it. There's
a balance between overexposure (which can desensitize people) and
underexposure (which can leave people with an intellectual understanding
but no real emotional connection). Like the anti-death-penalty
activists who want executions to be televised, so people have more of an
emotional connection to the acts being performed on their behalf.
(Whether that would go too far in the "desensitization" direction, or
not, I'm not sure. I think it might, because of the global reach of
television. Requiring citizens selected by lottery to attend local
executions might be more effective.)

David desJardins

[Rosalie B.]

(Hillary Israeli) wrote:

>I have a question about kids and sporting events. At what age do you all
>think it appropriate to bring a kid to an NFL game? (that's National
>Football League for those of you who may not be aware). I know that at
>various concerts and sporting events I often see small children and think
>to myself "gosh, isn't that kid a little too young for this kind of
>thing?" But I don't really know...
>
>Anyway, I have a newly-3 year old kid and tickets to an NFL game here in
>Philadelphia in November. So, I'm wondering, can we bring him? I mean, I
>know we CAN, but what are the things I'm not thinking of that might be a
>problem?? They're special "club" tickets, so we will have access to an
>indoor clubhouse area if the weather is a problem or he gets cold or
>whatever.

My dd#2 and SIL#2 have been taking their oldest kid to pro sports
events 'forever'. They are a very sports minded family. So I'd say
it depends more on what you want to do than on him.

By that I mean - are you a fan who likes to watch every play,
diagraming them on your program, or do you just like the ambience and
the cheering and socializing? Will you be happy not watching the game
if your guy gets bored and you have to entertain him? How about your
dh? How will he feel about that?

Keep in mind too that at large sporting events there are restrictions
on what you can bring in, and I think people have to go through an
inspection process which may take longer than normal.

I don't think it will matter to him one way or the other where he is,
if he has something to eat, and is comfortable and stuff to see or
do. You are going to be far enough away from the field so that it
will be less immediately visible than it is on TV. My sister and I
took my 1 yo niece to a bull fight in Madrid, and it worked out fine.
She kept pointing at the bull and saying "see kitty cat".

As to the violence - there are quite a lot of sports (pro or not) that
are violent. Hockey (ice or field), Polo (water or on horses), rugby,
soccer, and other similar sports, baseball, basketball, lacrosse,
boxing, fencing, auto racing - even bicycle races.

Some sports are more directly physical between players than others and
in some it is ostensibly penalized (as it is sometimes in football
too), but about the only sports where there isn't violence are those
where there is no physical contact between the players. Like
swimming.

IMO, touch football and tackle football are different only in degree.

grandma Rosalie

[chiam margalit]

(Hillary Israeli) wrote in message >...
> I have a question about kids and sporting events. At what age do you all
> think it appropriate to bring a kid to an NFL game? (that's National
> Football League for those of you who may not be aware). I know that at
> various concerts and sporting events I often see small children and think
> to myself "gosh, isn't that kid a little too young for this kind of
> thing?" But I don't really know...
>
> Anyway, I have a newly-3 year old kid and tickets to an NFL game here in
> Philadelphia in November. So, I'm wondering, can we bring him? I mean, I
> know we CAN, but what are the things I'm not thinking of that might be a
> problem?? They're special "club" tickets, so we will have access to an
> indoor clubhouse area if the weather is a problem or he gets cold or
> whatever.

I think it depends entirely on the kid, and you know your kid best.
Does he like football? Does he watch it with the family on TV and
understand the basics of the game? (Can he teach them to me... because
to me it looks like a bunch of behemouths crashing into each other and
I just DO NOT get it!) Have your read books about sports? Does he
like sports enough to be excited about the game?

FWIW, I took my kids at age 4 to a Red Sox game, and one loved it and
the other one had fun, but was more interested in the snacks and the
attire than the game. Hate to be gender specific but....

Now both of my kids are seasoned baseball fans, have been to games all
over the country and to the Baseball Hall of Fame and, for that
matter, the Basketball Hall of Fame (both the old and brand new
version) and both kids like baseball almost as much as I do. I do
believe kids that have parents who border on fanatical will enjoy the
game more than kids whose parents have a passing fancy for the game. I
know I've been to quite a few Sharks hockey games and have seen the
Bruins play the Sharks several times, but hockey isn't by nature a
game I love, so my kids aren't anywhere near as into it as they are
baseball.

My feeling is, try it and don't be too invested in the game. If he's
miserable, go home. Bring along some entertainment and teach him about
the jumbotron, which is always a source of fascination for young kids.
Man, a TV that big! Totally cool!

Marjorie

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
chiam margalit > wrote:

*I think it depends entirely on the kid, and you know your kid best.
*Does he like football? Does he watch it with the family on TV and
*understand the basics of the game? (Can he teach them to me... because
*to me it looks like a bunch of behemouths crashing into each other and
*I just DO NOT get it!) Have your read books about sports? Does he
*like sports enough to be excited about the game?

Well, um - no :)
We aren't really a sports oriented family. We don't watch sports. We don't
read about sports. Frankly, if all sports fell off the face of the earth,
we probably wouldn't notice for quite some time.

That being said, people keep giving us tickets to sporting events and
while I'm not one to go out of my way to see them, if I'm given the
tickets and I go, I generally have a good time.

I suppose it would make sense to read our son a book or two about playing
football, and maybe show it to him on tv, and see if he shows any
interest. Duh. I feel like an idiot for not thinking of that...

:)


--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Rosalie B.]

(Hillary Israeli) wrote:

>In >,
>chiam margalit > wrote:
>
>*I think it depends entirely on the kid, and you know your kid best.
>*Does he like football? Does he watch it with the family on TV and
>*understand the basics of the game? (Can he teach them to me... because
>*to me it looks like a bunch of behemouths crashing into each other and
>*I just DO NOT get it!) Have your read books about sports? Does he
>*like sports enough to be excited about the game?
>
I was totally not into sports AT ALL as a kid. We ice skated (figure)
and sort of followed the Olympic team. My grandmother when she was
terminally ill would watch wrestling in the Gorgeous George era. My
mom and dad used to play tennis, and my mom was a swimming teacher at
camp before she was married. My dad used to like to watch baseball,
and I had a girl friend who was into baseball.

I enjoyed ice skating and swimming , but I went to a minor league bb
game and got hit in the jaw by a foul ball and I didn't care for (was
no good at) tennis. I almost flunked softball in college (required
PE), did not do well at golf (and even today am awful at even
miniature golf), or bowling. I liked archery, but that isn't an
especially easy sport to find (plus I wasn't THAT interested).

But sometime c 1965 I read "The Paper Lion" by George Plimpton about
his experience as a pre-season quarterback with the Detroit Lions, and
after that I found pro football fascinating, and started to follow it.

I brought my children up doing non-team sports things like swimming,
ice skating, gymnastics, horseback riding and those sorts of things.
DD#2 was on the track team for a year or so (shot put and discus). DS
played pigskin football a couple of seasons and tried soccer a bit.

But now all three girls have married men who are completely sports
mad. Her dh was a wrestling coach and their ushers when they were
married were the wrestling team. So dd#1 has found herself running
the local soccer league, and has a daughter with an athletic
scholarship in lacrosse who was named an All-Upstate Collegiate
Athletic Association (UCAA) Honorable Mention selection. And they've
attended World Cup soccer (what everyone else calls football) matches.

dd#2 is heavily involved with all kinds of sports for her children
(baseball, basketball, tennis, gymnastics, swimming, football, soccer,
golf). If you can think of a sport, they are probably doing it (with
the exception of ice skating sports as they live in Miami). Not only
running them to practice and games and playoff games and traveling
teams, but keeping score, getting coaching for her kids etc. Plus her
dh is really into sports fishing. And the little girl who will be 3
in October usually goes to her brother's games with her mom - after
all where else would she be? She's pretty much able to amuse herself
at the games.

dd#3's children are younger, but the oldest (kindergarten) is in
T-ball and it looks like her dh will be coaching too. And her ds is a
fanatic about auto racing, and follows the drivers closely. He
insisted on going out for Halloween 2 years ago as the UPS car driver
(whoever that is - I don't remember) so this is not something recent.
He also watches baseball on TV (his team is the Atlanta Braves).


>Well, um - no :)
>We aren't really a sports oriented family. We don't watch sports. We don't
>read about sports. Frankly, if all sports fell off the face of the earth,
>we probably wouldn't notice for quite some time.
>
>That being said, people keep giving us tickets to sporting events and
>while I'm not one to go out of my way to see them, if I'm given the
>tickets and I go, I generally have a good time.
>
>I suppose it would make sense to read our son a book or two about playing
>football, and maybe show it to him on tv, and see if he shows any
>interest. Duh. I feel like an idiot for not thinking of that...
>
>:)

It's not so idiotic. A lot of the things that you see on TV are
different from the real sports event. Some sports (like ice hockey)
just don't translate well to TV. Football IMHO is made to order for
TV because the action pauses so often for the commentator to explain
what happened. In person, you don't have that kind of personal tutor
for it. So if he likes what he sees on TV, he may be disappointed in
person.

grandma Rosalie

[Banty]

In article >, Rosalie B. says...
>

>
>It's not so idiotic. A lot of the things that you see on TV are
>different from the real sports event. Some sports (like ice hockey)
>just don't translate well to TV. Football IMHO is made to order for
>TV because the action pauses so often for the commentator to explain
>what happened. In person, you don't have that kind of personal tutor
>for it. So if he likes what he sees on TV, he may be disappointed in
>person.
>
>grandma Rosalie
>

I didn't understand football at all until I had a boyfriend who was really into
it, and explained things to me. Now I love to watch it.

Watching football on TV and going to see a game are two different experiences
anyway. The close-up view and commentary are essential parts of TV-watching,
the excitement of being in the crowd and just being there (although you actually
see less of the game) are essential parts of the attendance of the game.

A little kid may like all the crowd hoopla even if he doesn't understand the
game. Esepcially if it's a high-scoring game. At least for awhile.

Banty

[Robyn Kozierok]

In article >,
Rosalie B. > wrote:
>>
>>I suppose it would make sense to read our son a book or two about playing
>>football, and maybe show it to him on tv, and see if he shows any
>>interest. Duh. I feel like an idiot for not thinking of that...
>>
>>:)
>
>It's not so idiotic. A lot of the things that you see on TV are
>different from the real sports event. Some sports (like ice hockey)
>just don't translate well to TV. Football IMHO is made to order for
>TV because the action pauses so often for the commentator to explain
>what happened. In person, you don't have that kind of personal tutor
>for it. So if he likes what he sees on TV, he may be disappointed in
>person.

Also, I don't think a 3yo really cares to follow the game, so having
someone explain may not be that important. If your 3yo likes new
sights and sounds and experiences, he'll probably like the experience
of "going to a football game" even if he knows nothing about football.
I don't think it's so important to "prep" a 3yo on what football is
about before taking him to a game. As others have said, make sure he
will have sufficient snacks etc. and go and have fun. If he is bored,
you could always leave. We took Ryan to a baseball game at around a
year old. He clapped whenever the audience cheered and had a great
time. I'm sure he had no clue that the real action was going on
way down on the field. :)

--Robyn

[annie]

I've been taking my kids to major college football games since they
were four. And I've been to sporting events in Philly.

How much interest do *you* have in the game? If you aren't
interested, your child won't be.

The Linc is a gorgeous new stadium and there are a million other
things going on that have nothing to do with the game. The first
couple years my kids went to games, they were more interested in the
band, the scoreboards, etc than they were with the game. (That's
changed over the years.) Philly fans, however, aren't mild,
sit-on-their-hands types. Are you prepared to have your child hear
bad language or be around people drinking beer? Can your child handle
the noise?

I wouldn't have hesitated to take my kids to an NFL game at that age
if I could have. But they spent a lifetime of watching sports with
me. Football is in their blood (my son knew what a touchdown was
before he could walk). I think sports is a great way to bond with the
kids. My kids are well into their teens now, and my son and I
regularly go to our local major college games. That's when we sit and
talk about his life. He plays football now himself and the people we
sit near have taken an interest in his "career." Football has been so
positive for our family. It makes me sad to hear others rip it down
as violent or stupid.

Only you know if your child would be ready for a day like that. It
can be intense. But it is a great time. Plan to buy some souveniers
and make it special.

Annie

[Hillary Israeli]

In >,
annie > wrote:

*How much interest do *you* have in the game?

I'm not a sports fan, but I do enjoy going to games in person now and
then.

*If you aren't interested, your child won't be.

I disagree. I'm not at all interested in a crappy production of "Sesame
Street Live" with a horrible sound system and no plot, but you know, my
child was REALLY interested... He has a lot of interests I do not
particularly share :)

*The Linc is a gorgeous new stadium and there are a million other
*things going on that have nothing to do with the game. The first

Yeah, I look forward to checking it out.

*sit-on-their-hands types. Are you prepared to have your child hear
*bad language or be around people drinking beer?

I'm sorry, this is making me crack up. I know what you mean (I think), but
still. My child has been around people drinking beer ever since I cracked
open the first postpartum bottle when he was about two days old, and I
think he heard me yelling something about m*therf*cking sh*it as he was
being born, too (it hurt. What can I say?)

Thanks for the input :)

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

[Nevermind]

(Hillary Israeli) wrote
>
> *sit-on-their-hands types. Are you prepared to have your child hear
> *bad language or be around people drinking beer?
>
> I'm sorry, this is making me crack up. I know what you mean (I think), but
> still. My child has been around people drinking beer ever since I cracked
> open the first postpartum bottle when he was about two days old,

But you don't throw your bottles at people who make you mad (by, say,
wearing the colors of the opposing team), right? My first concern at
an Eagles game would be safety. We're also in Phila and my DH is a
huge fan, but he has never taken our kids. However, his friends have
seats in a "middle" section, where there is still roughness and
sometimes outright danger. Since you guys can go to this clubhouse you
mentioned, then I'd think it would be great fun, especially since you
and your DH don't sound like the types who will mind if you need to
miss some on-the-field action to amuse the little guy.

[Jim]

annie wrote:

>I wouldn't have hesitated to take my kids to an NFL game at that age
>if I could have. But they spent a lifetime of watching sports with
>me. Football is in their blood (my son knew what a touchdown was
>before he could walk). I think sports is a great way to bond with the
>kids. My kids are well into their teens now, and my son and I
>regularly go to our local major college games. That's when we sit and
>talk about his life. He plays football now himself and the people we
>sit near have taken an interest in his "career." Football has been so
>positive for our family. It makes me sad to hear others rip it down
>as violent or stupid.

Like your post. Those that do are likely missing the whole concept of
team sports - the positive impact to children's lives (and, to be
mild, a strong desire to express their uniqueness with such word
twisting - "violent" - lol.)

>Only you know if your child would be ready for a day like that. It
>can be intense. But it is a great time. Plan to buy some souveniers
>and make it special.

Agreed. Few three y.o. kids are going to grasp the subtleties of
football but may enjoy the whole festive environment. The OP's lucky
in that they're special club seats and a 1:00 pm start. (That's three
less hours of drinking than a 4:15 start ;-) ) Dress warmly, wear
dark green and if going the 16th, certainly stay away from dark blue
colors. . . . If my 5 y.o. daughter can sit through - and may have
even somewhat enjoyed a full NASCAR race, a 3 y.o can get through an
NFL game. I more wonder about the parents. . . .

--
Jim