Thoughts on Halloween

[Harold Buck]

Just a few random thoughts on Halloween:

========================================

My son just turned 2 this week, and if *he* can remember to say "Thank
you" to people giving him candy, then the older kids should be able to
remember.

========================================

This year, we started having two bowls of candy: the "Gee, aren't you
cute, being of appropriate age and wearing a costume" bowl of Snickers,
Twix, M&Ms, etc., and the "Gee, if you'd gone through the trouble of
finding a costume, maybe it would have hidden the fact that you have
more facial hair than I do" bowl of assorted hard candies (plus candy
other people gave to my son earlier in the night that no one in this
household would ever eat).

It's a whole lot less confrontational to give the older kids a bunch of
crap they don't want than it is to say, "No, you're too old and you
don't have a costume, so no candy for you," but it doesn't reinforce the
bad behavior, either. Maybe if everyone started doing this then the
older kids would get the message and stop coming out. I think next year
I might give the older kids boxes of raisins. Or maybe prunes.

========================================

I think some of the kids I saw out tonight got more exercise trying to
run from house to house so they could get more candy in their bags
before dark than they did the whole rest of the year.

========================================

Is there a good way to make sure that holidays like Halloween and
Christmas don't just turn into unmitigated greed-fests?

========================================

Did you know that there's never been a documented case of tainted candy
given out from a residence? There was a guy giving out stuff on the
street that had been tampered with, though. Still, it's smart these days
to be careful.

========================================

That's all I can think of for now.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

[Donna Metler]

"Harold Buck" > wrote in message
...
> Just a few random thoughts on Halloween:
>
> ========================================
>
> My son just turned 2 this week, and if *he* can remember to say "Thank
> you" to people giving him candy, then the older kids should be able to
> remember.
>
I noticed that the younger ones were more respectful-although having Mom or
Dad on the driveway hissing "Say thank you!" probably helped.
> ========================================
>
> This year, we started having two bowls of candy: the "Gee, aren't you
> cute, being of appropriate age and wearing a costume" bowl of Snickers,
> Twix, M&Ms, etc., and the "Gee, if you'd gone through the trouble of
> finding a costume, maybe it would have hidden the fact that you have
> more facial hair than I do" bowl of assorted hard candies (plus candy
> other people gave to my son earlier in the night that no one in this
> household would ever eat).
>
> It's a whole lot less confrontational to give the older kids a bunch of
> crap they don't want than it is to say, "No, you're too old and you
> don't have a costume, so no candy for you," but it doesn't reinforce the
> bad behavior, either. Maybe if everyone started doing this then the
> older kids would get the message and stop coming out. I think next year
> I might give the older kids boxes of raisins. Or maybe prunes.
>

I gave out little toy items-the little ones were thrilled by it-the big ones
weren't so happy. And I figure that a bendy toy or little game is probably
better for them than candy, anyway. Besides, I can take extras to school for
my treat/birthday box (candy never survives to make it to school). I did
have some candy for the under 3 set (where the toys are a choking hazard,
and the parents are almost certainly going to eat most of the candy anyway)
and for really, really nice/cute costumes (usually worn by the under 10
set).


> ========================================
>
> I think some of the kids I saw out tonight got more exercise trying to
> run from house to house so they could get more candy in their bags
> before dark than they did the whole rest of the year.
>
I'm just thankful Halloween was on a Friday this year, so they have a few
days to burn through some of the sugar high before they come back to school.
600 sugar charged kids in one building who have been up late the night
before is rather scary.

> ========================================
>
> Is there a good way to make sure that holidays like Halloween and
> Christmas don't just turn into unmitigated greed-fests?
>
One of the things my mom had my brother and I do was make little craft items
before halloween-then we'd give them out to the older adults in our
neighborhood as we were trick-or-treating. It was kind of neat to give
something back. We did this the last few years we trick-or-treated, before
we got too old for it. We also visited these same people for other holidays
(Christmas caroling and the like).

> ========================================
>
> Did you know that there's never been a documented case of tainted candy
> given out from a residence? There was a guy giving out stuff on the
> street that had been tampered with, though. Still, it's smart these days
> to be careful.
>
> ========================================
>
> That's all I can think of for now.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson
>

[chiam margalit]

"Donna Metler" > wrote in message >...
> "Harold Buck" > wrote in message

You need to move to an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood. We had ONE group
of trick or treaters although we live on a street with probably 200
kids on it. The group that came knows my kids from school, but they
didn't even ring the doorbell, they knocked. I *love* when Halloween
comes on a Friday night!

Marjorie

[Mary Ann]

"Harold Buck" > wrote in message
...
> Just a few random thoughts on Halloween:
>
> ========================================
>
> My son just turned 2 this week, and if *he* can remember to say "Thank
> you" to people giving him candy, then the older kids should be able to
> remember.
>
Becuase they are excited, sometimes the smiling faces and the enthusiastic
"trick or treat" is better than a forced Thank you
========================================
>
> This year, we started having two bowls of candy: the "Gee, aren't you
> cute, being of appropriate age and wearing a costume" bowl of Snickers,
> Twix, M&Ms, etc., and the "Gee, if you'd gone through the trouble of
> finding a costume, maybe it would have hidden the fact that you have
> more facial hair than I do" bowl of assorted hard candies (plus candy
> other people gave to my son earlier in the night that no one in this
> household would ever eat).
>
> It's a whole lot less confrontational to give the older kids a bunch of
> crap they don't want than it is to say, "No, you're too old and you
> don't have a costume, so no candy for you," but it doesn't reinforce the
> bad behavior, either. Maybe if everyone started doing this then the
> older kids would get the message and stop coming out. I think next year
> I might give the older kids boxes of raisins. Or maybe prunes.

My 12 yr old is 5'5" and could pass as 20 but she is still a kid. Don't
jusdge too quickly


> ========================================
>
> I think some of the kids I saw out tonight got more exercise trying to
> run from house to house so they could get more candy in their bags
> before dark than they did the whole rest of the year.

Hey it there one shot

> ========================================
>
> Is there a good way to make sure that holidays like Halloween and
> Christmas don't just turn into unmitigated greed-fests?


Nope

> ========================================
>
> Did you know that there's never been a documented case of tainted candy
> given out from a residence? There was a guy giving out stuff on the
> street that had been tampered with, though. Still, it's smart these days
> to be careful.


Yup

> ========================================
>
> That's all I can think of for now.
>
> --Harold Buck
>
Please write us back in 8 years

[Harold Buck]

In article >,
"Mary Ann" > wrote:

> >
> > It's a whole lot less confrontational to give the older kids a bunch of
> > crap they don't want than it is to say, "No, you're too old and you
> > don't have a costume, so no candy for you," but it doesn't reinforce the
> > bad behavior, either. Maybe if everyone started doing this then the
> > older kids would get the message and stop coming out. I think next year
> > I might give the older kids boxes of raisins. Or maybe prunes.
>
> My 12 yr old is 5'5" and could pass as 20 but she is still a kid. Don't
> jusdge too quickly

Did you see the word "and" in there? If your 12 year old shows up
without a costume, I don't think she deserves any good candy. Do you?


> > ========================================
> >
> > I think some of the kids I saw out tonight got more exercise trying to
> > run from house to house so they could get more candy in their bags
> > before dark than they did the whole rest of the year.
>
> Hey it there one shot

Huh?


--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

[David desJardins]

Harold Buck writes:
> Did you see the word "and" in there? If your 12 year old shows up
> without a costume, I don't think she deserves any good candy. Do you?

While it's possible to see Halloween as an economic transaction between
children and adults, in which the children entertain you by dressing up
in costumes, in exchange for which you give them candy, I don't think
that's the only interpretation, and, in my opinion, it's not the most
satisfactory. I would prefer an interpretation in which they dress up
in costumes because (and only if) they enjoy it, and you give them
treats because (and only if) you enjoy it. In that view, no one is more
or less "deserving" than any other, but of course you are free to give
or not give treats to whomever you choose (e.g., you could give candy to
every third visitor, or only to those carrying paper sacks, or whatever
other distinction is important to you).

David desJardins

[Scott Lindstrom]

DD went out trick/treating with her friend who lives near
a slightly wealthier neighborhood than ours. She got a couple
full-sized candy bars (!!). The mind boggles.

I walked around with DS and his friends and some of their
parents, and we got all caught up on the neighborhood
gossip. Left out a bowl of candy on the porch -- most
kids took 1 piece, even the few roving bands of middle-
school boys. Still, we ran out of candy around 7:15,
which had never happened before, but that's when DS
was done, so we turned off all the lights out front,
and no-one knocked again, except for two friends of
DD's. I gave them rejects from DS's bag (He hates
snickers bars, for example). Almost everyone was off
the streets by 7:15. Picked up DD from her friend's
house at 8 PM, then DD and DS sorted candy and swapped
before getting in bed around 8:45.

All in all, it was pretty relaxing.

Scott DD 10 and DS 7.5

[Nevermind]

Harold Buck > wrote
> This year, we started having two bowls of candy: the "Gee, aren't you
> cute, being of appropriate age and wearing a costume" bowl of Snickers,
> Twix, M&Ms, etc., and the "Gee, if you'd gone through the trouble of
> finding a costume, maybe it would have hidden the fact that you have
> more facial hair than I do" bowl of assorted hard candies (plus candy
> other people gave to my son earlier in the night that no one in this
> household would ever eat).

I don't begrudge them going out when they're teenagers. I remember
doing it once even after we'd stopped for a couple of years. Big
nostalgia trip. Most teenagers still have an alive-and-well little
child inside still. But I agree that they should be in costume! Maybe
make 'em do a trick (sing a song? Do a dance?) if they're not in
costume?

>
> I think some of the kids I saw out tonight got more exercise trying to
> run from house to house so they could get more candy in their bags
> before dark than they did the whole rest of the year.
>
> ========================================
>
> Is there a good way to make sure that holidays like Halloween and
> Christmas don't just turn into unmitigated greed-fests?

I think it's natural for kids to be greedy. Hey, how often are they
giving out candy for free?! You better make sure you get all you can!
But we adults don't have to overindulge by buying too many X-Mas
presents and too many decorations and by starting the "celebration"
too early just because the stores do. You can also limit how far you
take your kids trick-or-treating.

[Robyn Kozierok]

In article >,
David desJardins > wrote:
>Harold Buck writes:
>> Did you see the word "and" in there? If your 12 year old shows up
>> without a costume, I don't think she deserves any good candy. Do you?
>
>While it's possible to see Halloween as an economic transaction between
>children and adults, in which the children entertain you by dressing up
>in costumes, in exchange for which you give them candy, I don't think
>that's the only interpretation, and, in my opinion, it's not the most
>satisfactory. I would prefer an interpretation in which they dress up
>in costumes because (and only if) they enjoy it, and you give them
>treats because (and only if) you enjoy it.

My take is that I enjoy being part of the fun for kids (including teens)
who still get into the whole Halloween thing and still enjoy the dressing up
part. For (older) kids who don't bother/enjoy dressing up anymore, it
just seems like a big old candy grab, and something rather more crass that
I don't enjoy participating in. So... I don't exactly see it as an
economic transaction as you suggest, but I don't share your view either.

--Robyn

[David desJardins]

Robyn Kozierok writes:
> My take is that I enjoy being part of the fun for kids (including
> teens) who still get into the whole Halloween thing and still enjoy
> the dressing up part.

What if they dress up as part of an economic transaction, but they don't
actually enjoy it? How would you measure their enjoyment?

I think there are a lot of kids, even younger ones (i.e., younger than
teens) who see dressing up in costume primarily as an economic bargain
in exchange for treats, rather than something they do because they enjoy
it. And/or something they do because of peer/cultural pressure. I'm
not sure how you would verify or test this, though. Perhaps I'm just
projecting my own feelings onto other people.

David desJardins

[Elizabeth Gardner]

In article >,
David desJardins > wrote:

> Robyn Kozierok writes:
> > My take is that I enjoy being part of the fun for kids (including
> > teens) who still get into the whole Halloween thing and still enjoy
> > the dressing up part.
>
> What if they dress up as part of an economic transaction, but they don't
> actually enjoy it? How would you measure their enjoyment?
>
> I think there are a lot of kids, even younger ones (i.e., younger than
> teens) who see dressing up in costume primarily as an economic bargain
> in exchange for treats, rather than something they do because they enjoy
> it. And/or something they do because of peer/cultural pressure. I'm
> not sure how you would verify or test this, though. Perhaps I'm just
> projecting my own feelings onto other people.
>


Maybe you are. At least for my seven-year-old and her friends, the
costume is the whole point, and the candy is a nice side-effect. I know
it's not the primary motivation because an astonishing amount of it is
still hanging around a couple of months later, and even more of it
probably would be if I didn't steal it. And they don't seem
particularly focused on quantity. I offered my daughter a choice of
bags for collecting her loot and she picked the smallest one because she
didn't want it to get too heavy.

[Robyn Kozierok]

In article >,
Elizabeth Gardner > wrote:
>
>Maybe you are. At least for my seven-year-old and her friends, the
>costume is the whole point, and the candy is a nice side-effect. I know
>it's not the primary motivation because an astonishing amount of it is
>still hanging around a couple of months later, and even more of it
>probably would be if I didn't steal it. And they don't seem
>particularly focused on quantity. I offered my daughter a choice of
>bags for collecting her loot and she picked the smallest one because she
>didn't want it to get too heavy.
>

My 7- and 10-year-old are definitely into the candy, but they start getting
excited about planning their costumes sometimes months in advance. I know
I always enjoyed the dressing up part as well, even into my young teens.
So maybe I'm just projecting my feelings/experiences as well.

Obviously, I can't judge why someone dressed up. But I can assume that
a teen who shows up without a costume doesn't still enjoy the dressing
up part of the event (if they ever did) and are only out for the candy.
If they can cover for their candy-only desires by playing along and
dressing up, then I'll never know.

--Robyn

[Carol Hulls]

In article >,
Robyn Kozierok > wrote:
>
>My 7- and 10-year-old are definitely into the candy, but they start getting
>excited about planning their costumes sometimes months in advance. I know
>I always enjoyed the dressing up part as well, even into my young teens.
>So maybe I'm just projecting my feelings/experiences as well.
>

While for some teens it may be the free candy, I wouldn't discount the
urge to dress up. Students at my local university dress up and go
trick or treating, not for candy, but for food bank donations. It is
apparently quite a popular fundraiser - the students seem to love the
fact that they can go trick or treating again.

Carol Hulls

[Neumann]

(Robyn Kozierok) wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> Elizabeth Gardner > wrote:
> >
> >Maybe you are. At least for my seven-year-old and her friends, the
> >costume is the whole point, and the candy is a nice side-effect. I know
> >it's not the primary motivation because an astonishing amount of it is
> >still hanging around a couple of months later, and even more of it
> >probably would be if I didn't steal it. And they don't seem
> >particularly focused on quantity. I offered my daughter a choice of
> >bags for collecting her loot and she picked the smallest one because she
> >didn't want it to get too heavy.
> >
>
> My 7- and 10-year-old are definitely into the candy, but they start getting
> excited about planning their costumes sometimes months in advance. I know
> I always enjoyed the dressing up part as well, even into my young teens.
> So maybe I'm just projecting my feelings/experiences as well.
>
> Obviously, I can't judge why someone dressed up. But I can assume that
> a teen who shows up without a costume doesn't still enjoy the dressing
> up part of the event (if they ever did) and are only out for the candy.
> If they can cover for their candy-only desires by playing along and
> dressing up, then I'll never know.
>
> --Robyn


I didn't get to see any of the children that came by the house because
we took our son trick or treating. So, I didn't have the opportunity
to hear whether or not they said thank you. We made sure our son
thanked each and every person. The weird thing about taking him trick
or treating...he went to a few houses and then said he had enough. I
was quite shocked.

[David desJardins]

Carol Hulls writes:
> While for some teens it may be the free candy, I wouldn't discount the
> urge to dress up. Students at my local university dress up and go
> trick or treating, not for candy, but for food bank donations. It is
> apparently quite a popular fundraiser - the students seem to love the
> fact that they can go trick or treating again.

Obviously, many people enjoy dressing up in costumes. I'm only
speculating that there are also quite a few who don't. My daughter
seems much more interested in costumes than my son is, for example. Of
course that's only one data point.

David desJardins

[Robyn Kozierok]

In article >,
Scott Lindstrom > wrote:
>
>DD went out trick/treating with her friend who lives near
>a slightly wealthier neighborhood than ours. She got a couple
>full-sized candy bars (!!). The mind boggles.

A few people in the non wealthy neighboorhood where we trick or
treated also gave out full-sized candy bars. Turns out they work
for the candy companies or their parent companies or something.
I bet they get a thrill out of seeing all the kids' eyes bug out. :)

--Robyn

[Donna Metler]

"Robyn Kozierok" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Scott Lindstrom > wrote:
> >
> >DD went out trick/treating with her friend who lives near
> >a slightly wealthier neighborhood than ours. She got a couple
> >full-sized candy bars (!!). The mind boggles.
>
> A few people in the non wealthy neighboorhood where we trick or
> treated also gave out full-sized candy bars. Turns out they work
> for the candy companies or their parent companies or something.
> I bet they get a thrill out of seeing all the kids' eyes bug out. :)
>
> --Robyn
>
One of the guys in my neighborhood drives a truck for Frito Lay, and gave
out the snack sized bags of chips-very popular house!

[Banty]

In article >, Robyn Kozierok says...
>
>In article >,
>Scott Lindstrom > wrote:
>>
>>DD went out trick/treating with her friend who lives near
>>a slightly wealthier neighborhood than ours. She got a couple
>>full-sized candy bars (!!). The mind boggles.
>
>A few people in the non wealthy neighboorhood where we trick or
>treated also gave out full-sized candy bars. Turns out they work
>for the candy companies or their parent companies or something.
>I bet they get a thrill out of seeing all the kids' eyes bug out. :)
>
>--Robyn
>

Or they're offloading the full-size candy bars they had to buy to make their
kids' sales quota for whatever fundraisers they were doing through the year.

(Hey, I've done it!)

Banty

[Maxixe]

I live in an affluent town and some of the people give out old candy
canes!

I have a few thoughts one Halloween too. We lived in an urban Middle
Class neighborhood a couple years ago. Teens came to our door not in
costume too but it didn't bother me one bit, as long as they were
respectful. Adults trick or treating not in costume came to our door
too which I just thought was a bit sad (we were about 8 blocks away
from a government subsidised housing complex).

In this small town I live in Halloween is absolutely wonderful. The
town has it very organized. All the merchants downtown (about a 6
block area) give out candy. One area is unofficially designated for
teenagers to blow off steam. The first year I didn't know about it and
walked right through that zone and my 3 year old daughter got nailed
by a glob of shaving cream. It's not thta they did it on purpose, we
just got caught in the crossfire. This shaving cream fight (with about
50 teens taking part at times). A couple of policemen are nearby to
supervise. I don't really like the whole tradition, but hey, it is
better than having it happen randomly and unsupervised. The majority
of teenagers do dress up too.

I think part of the dressing up has to do with having a parent that
can afford to furnish costumes for all their kids. They are expensive
to make or to buy. I spent $30 to make my daughter the costume of her
choice. I used to buy her costumes before that and they were usually
about $20. I got my son a thrift shop costume because he is just a
baby. I can see though how hard it would be if I had about 3-4 kids of
the elementary and higher grades to furnish costumes for, especially
if money were tight.

As for manners, my daughter is 4 so she was finally into the trick or
treating house to house this year. She was too shy to say "thank you"
loud enough for the people handing out candy to hear. I had to prompt
her everytime because she would just put her head down and run back to
me. It is hard to go up to strangers. I mean didn't we tell them
taking candy from strangers is dangerous? As parents we just have to
stay close enough so the kids know that interaction is safe and keep
reinforcing the manners.


> A few people in the non wealthy neighboorhood where we trick or
> treated also gave out full-sized candy bars. Turns out they work
> for the candy companies or their parent companies or something.
> I bet they get a thrill out of seeing all the kids' eyes bug out. :)
>
> --Robyn