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chiam margalit
November 7th 03, 07:51 PM
My son, age 11, has residual tics from a medication that he takes.
Usually they are fairly benign and we all can live with them
(scratching his nose, licking his lips, clearing his throat... not all
at the same time) but recently he has picked up a tic that is
literally driving me nuts. He cracks his knuckles constantly. Tonight
I timed him. Every 1.5 to two minutes he cracked *all* the knuckles in
both hands. He does this by punching the fingers into an open fist on
the opposite hand for maximun noise and irritation. This tic has been
going on for several months, but it's switched into high gear as
school begins to get more pressure-ridden.

Besides this driving me nuts, I've had complaints from school that it
is disrupting the class during tests, and takes up so much of his time
that hc can't get any written work done. Joy oh joy! Plus, this has
*got* to be terrible for his knuckles, right? I keep thinking that
this constant cracking is an open invitation to terrible arthritis
down the road.

Does anyone know for sure if knuckle cracking *does* do damage to the
philangial joints AND does anyone have an idea of how to get him to
stop. I've been thinking about Robyn's son and the double casts.
Sounds really good to me right now. I'd do about anything to stop
this. It is really really annoying.

Marjorie

Splanche
November 7th 03, 09:37 PM
Ok, I have NO medical background, so I may be way off base, but it doesn't
sound exactly like a tic to me-- it sound more like an OCD type behavior. I
always think of tic sas things that really can't be controlled, but this sounds
like something that might be fixed with some sort of behavior modification....
How about the "rubber band around the wrist" tecnique? Have him snap the rubber
band instead of cracking knuckles. How about fingerless gloves (the kind with
no tips) so that there's too much padding to crack? Or maybe splint his ring
finger straight, which shouldn't affect writing, typing, etc too much, but will
leave him unable to make a fist. It also seems like he's going to have to WANT
to change the behavior.

Donna Metler
November 7th 03, 11:44 PM
"chiam margalit" > wrote in message
m...
> My son, age 11, has residual tics from a medication that he takes.
> Usually they are fairly benign and we all can live with them
> (scratching his nose, licking his lips, clearing his throat... not all
> at the same time) but recently he has picked up a tic that is
> literally driving me nuts. He cracks his knuckles constantly. Tonight
> I timed him. Every 1.5 to two minutes he cracked *all* the knuckles in
> both hands. He does this by punching the fingers into an open fist on
> the opposite hand for maximun noise and irritation. This tic has been
> going on for several months, but it's switched into high gear as
> school begins to get more pressure-ridden.

Is this bad enough to warrant a medication change? It might be worth it to
discuss this with his doctor who prescribed the meds originally.

chiam margalit
November 8th 03, 07:32 PM
"Donna Metler" > wrote in message >...
> "chiam margalit" > wrote in message
> m...
> > My son, age 11, has residual tics from a medication that he takes.
> > Usually they are fairly benign and we all can live with them
> > (scratching his nose, licking his lips, clearing his throat... not all
> > at the same time) but recently he has picked up a tic that is
> > literally driving me nuts. He cracks his knuckles constantly. Tonight
> > I timed him. Every 1.5 to two minutes he cracked *all* the knuckles in
> > both hands. He does this by punching the fingers into an open fist on
> > the opposite hand for maximun noise and irritation. This tic has been
> > going on for several months, but it's switched into high gear as
> > school begins to get more pressure-ridden.
>
> Is this bad enough to warrant a medication change? It might be worth it to
> discuss this with his doctor who prescribed the meds originally.

It's been discussed up the wazoo.

I'd like to comment that I had no inkling that this thread ever
posted. I never saw it, I never read any thread, and I have no clue
what anyone said previously. I think I posted the original post about
2 months ago! I can't even google it.

This is definately a tic, it's getting a tiny bit better, he's much
more aware of it since I started verbally reminding him *every* time
he started it up, but it's just a side affect of his meds. I guess
it's better than the tic that had him scratching the skin off the tip
of his nose, or the constant sniffing tic, but in general tics are
quite tough to live with.

Marjorie

David desJardins
November 8th 03, 08:52 PM
Marjorie writes:
> I'd like to comment that I had no inkling that this thread ever
> posted. I never saw it, I never read any thread, and I have no clue
> what anyone said previously. I think I posted the original post about
> 2 months ago! I can't even google it.

Actually you posted it on October 10 (according to the headers) and it
was approved on November 7. Submissions to moderated newsgroups are
sent by email; it's not extremely uncommon for messages to get stuck on
a mail client or server somewhere, and then not forwarded for a long
time.

> This is definately a tic, it's getting a tiny bit better, he's much
> more aware of it since I started verbally reminding him *every* time
> he started it up, but it's just a side affect of his meds. I guess
> it's better than the tic that had him scratching the skin off the tip
> of his nose, or the constant sniffing tic, but in general tics are
> quite tough to live with.

I've only heard the word "tic" used for involuntary muscle spasms or
twitches, not for intentional (even if perhaps obsessive/compulsive)
acts. I think we all (now) understand what you mean, though.

David desJardins

Christopher Biow
November 9th 03, 09:37 PM
David desJardins > wrote:
>Marjorie writes:

>> I'd like to comment that I had no inkling that this thread ever
>> posted. I never saw it, I never read any thread, and I have no clue
>> what anyone said previously. I think I posted the original post about
>> 2 months ago! I can't even google it.

>Actually you posted it on October 10 (according to the headers) and it
>was approved on November 7. Submissions to moderated newsgroups are
>sent by email; it's not extremely uncommon for messages to get stuck on
>a mail client or server somewhere, and then not forwarded for a long
>time.

Yes, that's exactly what happened. Below are the Received headers for the
email as it came into our STUMP robomoderator (reverse chronological
order). It looks like it sat on the sjc3sosrv11.alter.net email relay host
for nearly a month. Once we received it (mail.predge.com hosts our STUMP
'bot), we approved it and posted it within 90 minutes. Google may have
ignored it due to the time delay.

I can't find any other posts that have come through this particular relay
server in recent days, so this may have been the only such delayed post.
The alter.net relay appears to have been removed from the list of Usenet
moderation relay hosts in the meantime.

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Christopher Biow
November 10th 03, 03:19 PM
David desJardins > wrote:
>Marjorie writes:

>> This is definately a tic, it's getting a tiny bit better, he's much
>> more aware of it since I started verbally reminding him *every* time
>> he started it up, but it's just a side affect of his meds. I guess
>> it's better than the tic that had him scratching the skin off the tip
>> of his nose, or the constant sniffing tic, but in general tics are
>> quite tough to live with.

>I've only heard the word "tic" used for involuntary muscle spasms or
>twitches, not for intentional (even if perhaps obsessive/compulsive)
>acts. I think we all (now) understand what you mean, though.

There is a long continuum, with small, involuntary spams at one extreme,
and compulsive behavior at the other. Even common English usage spans quite
a range:

|Main Entry: tic
|Pronunciation: 'tik
|Function: noun
|Etymology: French
|Date: circa 1834
|1 : local and habitual spasmodic motion of particular muscles
| especially of the face : TWITCHING
|2 : a frequent usually unconscious quirk of behavior or speech
| <"you know" is a verbal tic>
from <www.m-w.com>

Formal medical usage seems to switch over to "sterotypic movement" for
something as complex as knuckle-cracking. From what I've read, adolescence
frequently involves a variety of such behaviors which would be considered a
disorder if they become permanent or are not induced by drugs. The degree
of voluntary control is sometimes compared to blinking or yawning--it may
be voluntarily suspended for some time with conscious attention, but
eventually occurs anyway.

See
<http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/stereotypic_movement_disorder.htm>
<http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/chronic_motor_tic.htm>
<http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/tourettes_disorder.htm>