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H Schinske
November 17th 03, 10:16 PM
I recently checked out the web page of a private school where I am, and was
surprised to discover that they make a difference in how they calculate family
income for financial aid purposes if there is a stay-at-home parent.
Essentially they use a figure for what the parent could in theory be making if
s/he went back to work. I'm not saying this is necessarily unjust (I haven't
made up my mind about that), just that I didn't know they did it that way and I
wondered if it was a new thing. Also, is this the same way financial aid is
calculated for colleges?

--Helen

Scott Lindstrom
November 17th 03, 10:40 PM
H Schinske wrote:
> I recently checked out the web page of a private school where I am, and was
> surprised to discover that they make a difference in how they calculate family
> income for financial aid purposes if there is a stay-at-home parent.
> Essentially they use a figure for what the parent could in theory be making if
> s/he went back to work. I'm not saying this is necessarily unjust (I haven't
> made up my mind about that), just that I didn't know they did it that way and I
> wondered if it was a new thing. Also, is this the same way financial aid is
> calculated for colleges?


I'd be very surprised if that was how financial aid were
calculated for non-Private schools. I don't believe
schools/universities should be in the business of
deciding how much a family should in theory be making
if both parents work. But, a Private School can do
just about anything it pleases in this regard.

But what's next, they will decide you aren't making enough
money in your present job and could be doing better,
and therefore they deny you aid? <eyeroll> ;)

Scott DD 10 and DS 7.7, not facing this dilemma for several years yet

David desJardins
November 18th 03, 12:47 AM
Scott Lindstrom writes:
>> I recently checked out the web page of a private school where I am,
>> and was surprised to discover that they make a difference in how they
>> calculate family income for financial aid purposes if there is a
>> stay-at-home parent. Essentially they use a figure for what the
>> parent could in theory be making if s/he went back to work.
>
> I'd be very surprised if that was how financial aid were calculated
> for non-Private schools. I don't believe schools/universities should
> be in the business of deciding how much a family should in theory be
> making if both parents work.

It seems pretty fair to me. Suppose that I decide that when my children
are all in school, that I'm going to quit my job and travel the world
for a few years, thus eliminating my income and receiving a lot more
aid. I'll pay for it by borrowing money that I repay when I go back to
work, after my kids are out of school. Should this really entitle me to
more financial aid than someone who stays at their job?

Why should someone else's parents pay more so that the "stay-at-home
parent" can not work?

I don't know how common this is in financial aid computations, but it
seems similar to requiring recipients of public assistance to work,
which is certainly a current trend.

David desJardins

Elizabeth Gardner
November 18th 03, 02:56 AM
In article >,
David desJardins > wrote:

> Scott Lindstrom writes:
> >> I recently checked out the web page of a private school where I am,
> >> and was surprised to discover that they make a difference in how they
> >> calculate family income for financial aid purposes if there is a
> >> stay-at-home parent. Essentially they use a figure for what the
> >> parent could in theory be making if s/he went back to work.
> >
> > I'd be very surprised if that was how financial aid were calculated
> > for non-Private schools. I don't believe schools/universities should
> > be in the business of deciding how much a family should in theory be
> > making if both parents work.
>
> It seems pretty fair to me. Suppose that I decide that when my children
> are all in school, that I'm going to quit my job and travel the world
> for a few years, thus eliminating my income and receiving a lot more
> aid. I'll pay for it by borrowing money that I repay when I go back to
> work, after my kids are out of school. Should this really entitle me to
> more financial aid than someone who stays at their job?

By that logic, someone who gets out of Harvard law school and makes
their career at a legal aid clinic should be denied financial aid when
their kids apply to school, because they theoretically could have gotten
some fat cat Wall Street job and be endowing a new wing on the library
by now. Or someone making a career in academia as a mathematician
should be penalized for not pursuing much higher paying work in the
computer industry, or maybe with a defense contractor. Why should the
fat cat lawyers and computer moguls be covering education costs for the
children of people who've made less lucrative career choices?

Or suppose you got laid off just as your last kid went off to college
and you couldn't find another job. You'd be just as much not working
and living on loans as you would be if you'd quit voluntarily. How
might the financial aid office best distinguish between the two
situations?

Or suppose that the stay at home parent had crunched the numbers and
realized that the costs of holding down his or her particular job pretty
much cancelled out any income from the job, so that it was a wash
whether he or she worked or stayed home? And that the theoretical
salary the school is assuming doesn't come close to any actual job that
the parent might have had available?

The amount of second-guessing involved on the part of the financial aid
office would be equally presumptuous in any of these situations.

beeswing
November 18th 03, 05:14 AM
H Schinske wrote:

>I recently checked out the web page of a private school where I am, and was
>surprised to discover that they make a difference in how they calculate
>family income for financial aid purposes if there is a stay-at-home parent.

Okay, I have a confession. I'm local to you, and I badly want to know what the
school you are referring to.........

We've looked at Seattle Girls School for middle school, but it's d****ed
expensive and hard to wrap our brain around. And, no, thought the cost is
prohibitive, I don't believe we'd qualify for financial aid.

If one can (potentially, maybe) pay for instate, public university education
*OR* private school (especially at the critical middle-school level), how da
heck does one decide, anyway. Either? Both, with the hope of a windfall? What
makes the biggest difference to the character of a growing girl?

beeswing

Robyn Kozierok
November 18th 03, 05:38 AM
In article >,
H Schinske > wrote:
>I recently checked out the web page of a private school where I am, and was
>surprised to discover that they make a difference in how they calculate family
>income for financial aid purposes if there is a stay-at-home parent.
>Essentially they use a figure for what the parent could in theory be making if
>s/he went back to work. I'm not saying this is necessarily unjust (I haven't
>made up my mind about that), just that I didn't know they did it that way and I
>wondered if it was a new thing. Also, is this the same way financial aid is
>calculated for colleges?
>

Do they consider childcare costs, both for 2-income and single-parent
families, as well as for the stay-at-home parent they assume could be
working?

--Robyn

chiam margalit
November 18th 03, 06:32 AM
(H Schinske) wrote in message >...
> I recently checked out the web page of a private school where I am, and was
> surprised to discover that they make a difference in how they calculate family
> income for financial aid purposes if there is a stay-at-home parent.
> Essentially they use a figure for what the parent could in theory be making if
> s/he went back to work. I'm not saying this is necessarily unjust (I haven't
> made up my mind about that), just that I didn't know they did it that way and I
> wondered if it was a new thing. Also, is this the same way financial aid is
> calculated for colleges?


According to my brother, who has 3 children in college right now (1 in
law school at UVA, 1 at Smith, 1 at Brandeis, total ~100K per year!),
yes this is teken into account when you apply for financial aid. In
addition, he found this year that Smith and Brandeis calculate the way
they look at a family's financial situatin completely differntly. They
got MUCH more aid from Smith than Brandeis, with the same set of
numbers, because Smith looks at siblings in college and the amount of
financial aid they get, but Brandeis does not.

Marjorie

H Schinske
November 18th 03, 11:29 AM
wrote:

>Okay, I have a confession. I'm local to you, and I badly want to know what
>the
>school you are referring to.........

Answered off-line with more detail, but this is a bit of what I said: "I was
going to say it didn't matter, as it's the same financial aid form that lots of
independent schools use, but I'm not sure that's actually correct. I mean, I
know it's the same form, I don't know whether it's the same policy."

--Helen

H Schinske
November 18th 03, 11:30 AM
wrote:

>Do they consider childcare costs, both for 2-income and single-parent
>families, as well as for the stay-at-home parent they assume could be
>working?

Dunno the details. Basically they say to explain your individual situation and
they go from there. Their default position, if you don't supply any further
evidence, appears to be that if you don't have two incomes, you don't get
financial aid. They do assume that the primary-caregiving parent of a preschool
or kindergarten child (as the youngest of the family) will be working part
time, and if the youngest in the family is in first grade or more, full time.
Under three you get a dispensation.

--Helen

Moo
November 18th 03, 04:29 PM
My kid attended a private school that at one point tried to
set tuition based on income. It caused a lot of discord because
the families with working mothers felt like they were being forced to
subsidize the families whose mothers chose to stay home. The school
stopped doing this and now, with a few exceptions for the sake
of diversity and discounts for multiple children, have the same
tuition for everyone.

Most private schools do not have much of an endowment or source
of income other than tuition. Financial aid and tuition are a
zero-sum game. If one family gets a break, the other families
in the school will pay for it. Financial aid *should* be given
out very carefully.




(H Schinske) wrote in message >...
> wrote:
>
> >Do they consider childcare costs, both for 2-income and single-parent
> >families, as well as for the stay-at-home parent they assume could be
> >working?
>
> Dunno the details. Basically they say to explain your individual situation and
> they go from there. Their default position, if you don't supply any further
> evidence, appears to be that if you don't have two incomes, you don't get
> financial aid. They do assume that the primary-caregiving parent of a preschool
> or kindergarten child (as the youngest of the family) will be working part
> time, and if the youngest in the family is in first grade or more, full time.
> Under three you get a dispensation.
>
> --Helen

Bruce and Jeanne
November 18th 03, 06:37 PM
H Schinske wrote:

> I recently checked out the web page of a private school where I am, and was
> surprised to discover that they make a difference in how they calculate family
> income for financial aid purposes if there is a stay-at-home parent.
> Essentially they use a figure for what the parent could in theory be making if
> s/he went back to work. I'm not saying this is necessarily unjust (I haven't
> made up my mind about that), just that I didn't know they did it that way and I
> wondered if it was a new thing. Also, is this the same way financial aid is
> calculated for colleges?
>
> --Helen
>

I'm a bit confused. What income do they assign to the SAHP?

I thought financial aid for colleges are dependent on assets as well as
income (you need to submit income documentation). So, one family I know
was told by a college to either sell their house or take out a second
mortgage to pay for college. On the other hand, I was told by
UC-Berkeley I was eligible for a minority fellowship and I'm
Chinese-American, so I'm not sure what games universities and colleges
play.

Jeanne

H Schinske
November 18th 03, 07:25 PM
wrote:

>I'm a bit confused. What income do they assign to the SAHP?

As near as I can tell, the *default* is that if the SAHP is not working, they
do not give financial aid. They modify this, possibly including a guess at
potential income, according to what you tell them about your circumstances. For
instance, say husband makes $50,000, wife is not working. Wife says no point in
working during school hours for the measly $15,000 or so she could net on jobs
similar to those she has had in the past. Financial aid office says okay, but
we're going to figure your family income as $65,000 a year, and base the aid on
that. Something like that. I am totally guessing on how they would figure the
income. Or if you said "I'm spending a lot of time with my disabled mother, and
I simply can't work," they might waive the second income requirement
altogether.

I think basically what it comes down to is that they fix on this because they
*can*. There are always going to be injustices in how financial aid is
determined, because you can't go through everyone's whole circumstances and
decide who's morally worthy and who's been putting money up their noses.

But I must say, from the money point of view, homeschooling is looking a whole
lot more attractive. If the alternative is spending $10K and more per year per
kid, just *think* of what I could do for half that budget! Distance math, no
problem. Theater classes, check. Field trips, lemme at 'em!

Or I could start my own school. Hey, Beeswing? I have this basement ...

--Helen

David desJardins
November 18th 03, 08:44 PM
"Moo" writes:
> Most private schools do not have much of an endowment or source
> of income other than tuition. Financial aid and tuition are a
> zero-sum game. If one family gets a break, the other families
> in the school will pay for it. Financial aid *should* be given
> out very carefully.

Maybe this depends on where you live. In Silicon Valley, and I suspect
in Seattle, I think it's not uncommon for private schools to have
significant resources for financial aid that come from donations
earmarked for that purpose. It seems pretty reasonable to me for the
donors to want their donations to go to the people who need it the
most. I won't argue that financial aid systems work perfectly, but I
think it's generally better to make the effort than to throw up your
hands and just charge everyone the same.

Another thing that often happens is that the rich parents donate to the
school as well as pay tuition, which is another balancing effect. (In
some local communities here, it's pretty strongly expected that anyone
who can afford it will donate, even in the *public* schools.)

David desJardins

Beeswing
November 18th 03, 09:15 PM
"H Schinske" > wrote in message
...
>
> But I must say, from the money point of view, homeschooling is looking
a whole
> lot more attractive. If the alternative is spending $10K and more per
year per
> kid, just *think* of what I could do for half that budget! Distance
math, no
> problem. Theater classes, check. Field trips, lemme at 'em!

But seriously.... Getting down to brass tacks here: Given that the
biggest financial cost would be the lack of my salary, private school
would come in way, way cheaper than homeschooling (and I'd be a lousy
teacher, for that matter). And in part because of the housing market
when we bought in, we need two incomes just to pay the mortgage on our
house.

> Or I could start my own school. Hey, Beeswing? I have this basement
....

Now *that* sounds really good. I already know you're great with gifted
kids. :)

beeswing

Kevin Karplus
November 19th 03, 12:10 AM
In article >, David desJardins wrote:
> Another thing that often happens is that the rich parents donate to the
> school as well as pay tuition, which is another balancing effect. (In
> some local communities here, it's pretty strongly expected that anyone
> who can afford it will donate, even in the *public* schools.)

In my son's school, which is NOT wealthy (41% in free or reduced-fee
lunch program), they have been asking parents to donate to the school,
in place of the traditional wrapping-paper and cookie-dough fund
raisers. The goal is to raise about $35,000 in a school of 550 kids.

--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

H Schinske
November 19th 03, 12:10 AM
David ) wrote:

>I think it's not uncommon for private schools to have
>significant resources for financial aid that come from donations
>earmarked for that purpose. It seems pretty reasonable to me for the
>donors to want their donations to go to the people who need it the
>most.

Trouble is, if you take that to logical extremes, there would be no partial
scholarships at all, they'd spend all the available money on students who
needed full scholarships. That would exclude a whole category of people, which
would be obviously unfair too.

Financial aid is more and more puzzling the more you think about it.

--Helen