Sleeping Problem

[Tig]

Okay, a few nights ago I was so tired to even come upstairs and put Daniel
(2 months) l to sleep in his crib. I had no energy and I was on the couch,
and his car seat was right beside it, so I put him in there, and I fell
asleep and so did he. Anyhow - ever since he will not sleep in his crib! Or
in his playpen! He will only fall asleep in his swing, or in his car seat!
Even if I try to move him, gradually and slowly he will wake up once he
hits the mattress. I even have a back thing that curves that I can put him
on his side so he wont roll over, and that will usually keep him in the
same position somewhat as I put him laying down in... and then 2 minutes
later he wakes up.
I need to try to get him out of this habit. Wierd thing though, is he will
fall asleep on our bed if I do put him down on it... he will stay asleep...
but its just his crib and his playpen. Any suggestions?? Its getting really
annoying because I cant keep sleeping on the couch (to make sure hes okay in
it)... I miss sleeping in my bed....
Do you think Crying it out will help a bit? When he cries, and I dont do
anything about it he will screech even louder after a while, turning beat
red ...and how long would I let him cry for if that would be a good idea
anyhow?

Thanks!
Sara

[P. Tierney]

"Tig" > wrote:
>
> Do you think Crying it out will help a bit?

Not one bit. No one who recommends such methods (and you
should likely read the sources of those who do) recommends any
such method for a child that young. My understanding is that six
months is the minimum. Two months is *way* too young.

> When he cries, and I dont do
> anything about it he will screech even louder after a while, turning beat
> red ...and how long would I let him cry for if that would be a good idea
> anyhow?

Parenting requires a lot of sacrifice, and in those early months,
the sacrifice often comes in the form of sleep and comfort. You
should, and can, endure. You can handle it a lot better than your
child, who knows nothing of the world at this point except the
comfort and care of his parent. So, that is what you give.


P. Tierney

[Beth Gallagher]

> I need to try to get him out of this habit. Wierd thing though, is he
will
> fall asleep on our bed if I do put him down on it... he will stay
asleep...
> but its just his crib and his playpen. Any suggestions?? Its getting
really
> annoying because I cant keep sleeping on the couch (to make sure hes okay
in
> it)... I miss sleeping in my bed....
> Do you think Crying it out will help a bit?

Can't do that with a baby so young. I'm sure people do, but I think it's
cruel. (And I have let my babies cry to train them to sleep alone when they
were older, so I'm not 100% against that approach.)

I never used the carseat, but I know a few people who have had babies like
yours. One used to put her baby in his carseat *in his crib* in the hopes
that he'd get used to that general environment.

I agree with P. Tierney that you just need to cope for a while longer. Try
to get naps during the day and/or get yourself to bed as soon as he goes
down at night. I would just add the caveat that you should keep in mind your
ultimate goal (in your case, perhaps, him sleeping in his crib) as you
choose coping mechanisms, whether they be using the carseat and swing or
bringing him into bed.

You might try putting him down for naps in the crib, since you will not be
so tired and frustrated if you need to go back to him a lot. Try to get him
into sleep in your arms (or the swing etc.) and then put him down in the
crib. When we wakes up, put him back to sleep in your arms and then put him
in the crib again. And again. etc. He will eventually stay down for you.
And then he'll wake up in the crib and eventually get used to that being his
sleeping place. At least, that has always been my theory.

Good luck; you probably have months of problematic sleep ahead of you.

[Splanche]

>Anyhow - ever since he will not sleep in his crib! Or
>in his playpen! He will only fall asleep in his swing, or in his car seat!

Biggest mistake I always made was trying to put DD in the middle of the crib.
She hated it, until my sister told me to try putting her in the corner, with
her head touching the bumper on top and her back almost against the other
bumper. Once I did that things improved. It turned out DD did not like the
feeling of "open-ness."

[Robert]

Both of my children had similiar problems, they would wake the minute they
were over their crib, however if we put them in the parental bed the would
stay sleeping.

Out of desperation we added egg foam crate to the crib, under the sheets.
We still put the chilren on their backs or sides for sleeping. I believe
our children had gottten used to the softness of our bed, due to my wife's
breastfeeding.

I hope this helps.

--
************************************************** *
The line between failure and success is so fine that we are often on the
line and do not know it. How many a man has thrown up his hands at a time
when a little more effort, a little more patience, would have achieved
success.

-- Elbert Hubbard

"Tig" > wrote in message
...
> Okay, a few nights ago I was so tired to even come upstairs and put
Daniel
> (2 months) l to sleep in his crib. I had no energy and I was on the couch,
> and his car seat was right beside it, so I put him in there, and I fell
> asleep and so did he. Anyhow - ever since he will not sleep in his crib!
Or
> in his playpen! He will only fall asleep in his swing, or in his car seat!
> Even if I try to move him, gradually and slowly he will wake up once he
> hits the mattress. I even have a back thing that curves that I can put him
> on his side so he wont roll over, and that will usually keep him in the
> same position somewhat as I put him laying down in... and then 2 minutes
> later he wakes up.
> I need to try to get him out of this habit. Wierd thing though, is he
will
> fall asleep on our bed if I do put him down on it... he will stay
asleep...
> but its just his crib and his playpen. Any suggestions?? Its getting
really
> annoying because I cant keep sleeping on the couch (to make sure hes okay
in
> it)... I miss sleeping in my bed....
> Do you think Crying it out will help a bit? When he cries, and I dont do
> anything about it he will screech even louder after a while, turning beat
> red ...and how long would I let him cry for if that would be a good idea
> anyhow?
>
> Thanks!
> Sara
>

[Banty]

In article >, Tig says...
>
>Okay, a few nights ago I was so tired to even come upstairs and put Daniel
>(2 months) l to sleep in his crib. I had no energy and I was on the couch,
>and his car seat was right beside it, so I put him in there, and I fell
>asleep and so did he. Anyhow - ever since he will not sleep in his crib! Or
>in his playpen! He will only fall asleep in his swing, or in his car seat!
>Even if I try to move him, gradually and slowly he will wake up once he
>hits the mattress. I even have a back thing that curves that I can put him
>on his side so he wont roll over, and that will usually keep him in the
>same position somewhat as I put him laying down in... and then 2 minutes
>later he wakes up.
>I need to try to get him out of this habit.

Can your consider just letting him sleep in his swing or carseat in the crib.
Possibly there's a safety issue (none come to mind, but someone may have some
information), but I let my son sleep in his carseat in his crib sometimes. He
was a pretty good sleeper, but woudl wake up when moved from the carseat to the
crib, so I would just put him in the crib.

>Wierd thing though, is he will
>fall asleep on our bed if I do put him down on it... he will stay asleep...
>but its just his crib and his playpen. Any suggestions?? Its getting really
>annoying because I cant keep sleeping on the couch (to make sure hes okay in
>it)... I miss sleeping in my bed....

Can you consider bringing him to your bed to sleep? What seems to be consistent
about these behaviors is that he seems to need confined spaces. Try swaddling
him?

>Do you think Crying it out will help a bit? When he cries, and I dont do
>anything about it he will screech even louder after a while, turning beat
>red ...and how long would I let him cry for if that would be a good idea
>anyhow?

Don't think it would be a good idea this young.

Banty

[Noreen Cooper]

Tig > wrote:

: Okay, a few nights ago I was so tired to even come upstairs and put Daniel
: (2 months) l to sleep in his crib. I had no energy and I was on the couch,
: and his car seat was right beside it, so I put him in there, and I fell
: asleep and so did he. Anyhow - ever since he will not sleep in his crib! Or
: in his playpen! He will only fall asleep in his swing, or in his car seat!
: Even if I try to move him, gradually and slowly he will wake up once he
: hits the mattress. I even have a back thing that curves that I can put him
: on his side so he wont roll over, and that will usually keep him in the
: same position somewhat as I put him laying down in... and then 2 minutes
: later he wakes up.
: I need to try to get him out of this habit. Wierd thing though, is he will
: fall asleep on our bed if I do put him down on it... he will stay asleep...
: but its just his crib and his playpen. Any suggestions?? Its getting really
: annoying because I cant keep sleeping on the couch (to make sure hes okay in
: it)... I miss sleeping in my bed....

Two suggestions. The easiest is to purchase a baby monitor and continue
to allow your baby to sleep in the car seat or swing while you leave the
room and sleep in your own bed. If he fusses or wakes up, you can hear
him on the monitor and attend to his needs.

The other suggestion is more difficult but will probably be better off for
the entire family later on. I'd suggest you begin reading Ferber's book
called "Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems" to get some background
information on sleep associations. Some children form far stronger sleep
associations than others. If your baby slept fine in a crib but now
prefers to sleep upright, unless you can devise a way he can sleep upright
as a teen you will eventually have to retrain him to sleep lying down.

Right now, your baby prefers sleeping upright and has formed a sleep
association with an upright position. You should discuss this with your
pediatrician to rule out any abnormalities which would predispose your
child to want to sleep upright. Once you are sure that he is well fed and
dry and there are no illnesses or problems other than his preference to
sleep upright, I think it is wise to attempt to use Ferber's method, even
if it involves a little crying, to retrain him to sleep supine. You can,
of course, wait until he's 6 months old but then the habit will be even
further ingrained and it'll take that much more effort to get him to sleep
lying down.

But read Ferber's book. Don't do his method without reading it first for
the people who are the first to condemn "cry-it-out" have never read
Ferber nor do they understand sleep medicine nor have some had a baby who
forms very rigid sleep associations. Just as with adults, some are
temperamentally flexible while others are rigid. Same with babies and
sleep associations.

Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

Noreen

[Robyn Kozierok]

In article >,
Noreen Cooper > wrote:
>
>Right now, your baby prefers sleeping upright and has formed a sleep
>association with an upright position. You should discuss this with your
>pediatrician to rule out any abnormalities which would predispose your
>child to want to sleep upright.

For two of mine, gastro-esophageal reflux made it more comfortable for
them to sleep more upright. My middle son slept in his carseat for
almost 6 months, with his pediatrician's approval.

> Once you are sure that he is well fed and
>dry and there are no illnesses or problems other than his preference to
>sleep upright, I think it is wise to attempt to use Ferber's method, even
>if it involves a little crying, to retrain him to sleep supine. You can,
>of course, wait until he's 6 months old but then the habit will be even
>further ingrained and it'll take that much more effort to get him to sleep
>lying down.
>
>But read Ferber's book. Don't do his method without reading it first for
>the people who are the first to condemn "cry-it-out" have never read
>Ferber nor do they understand sleep medicine nor have some had a baby who
>forms very rigid sleep associations. Just as with adults, some are
>temperamentally flexible while others are rigid. Same with babies and
>sleep associations.

Last time *I* read Ferber's book, I'm almost certain he advised against
letting a baby under 5 or 6 months cry-it-out for any reason. For a
two-month-old baby, it is still worthwhile to think about changing
the sleep association, but the cold-turkey controlled crying approach
should probably wait.

It's still a good read in terms of helping parents understand sleep
associations, but I don't think Ferber gave much in the way of practical
advice for parents of young infants other than to *avoid* forming
inappropriate sleep associations in the first place, and it's too
late for that.

I'll suggest a newer sleep book, Elizabeth Pantley's "The No Cry Sleep
Solution". She discusses sleep associations in a way that is very
consistent with the theories Ferber presents, but then presents gentler
(and slower) methods of changing them. I first got this book when my
youngest was over a year old, I think, and have since passed it on
(along with my copy of Ferber) to a cousin who needed it more than I
do, but I am pretty sure she deals explicitly with very young infants
in her book. I once saw a review that described it as "Ferber without
the crying" which seems pretty accurate to me. A lot of it was stuff I
had come up with on my own after reading Ferber and trying to adjust it
to a gentler approach myself, but there were several new and useful
ideas there as well. I'd really recommend it.

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)
*Be the first on your block to own the comprehensive and comprehensible
TCP/IP Guide! http://www.tcpipguide.com
*For a challenging little arithmetic puzzle for kids and adults alike,
check out http://cgi.wff-n-proof.com/MSQ-Ind/I-1E.htm

[Katie]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:59:18 EST, (Robyn
Kozierok) asserted:

<snip>

>I'll suggest a newer sleep book, Elizabeth Pantley's "The No Cry Sleep
>Solution". She discusses sleep associations in a way that is very
>consistent with the theories Ferber presents, but then presents gentler
>(and slower) methods of changing them. I first got this book when my
>youngest was over a year old, I think, and have since passed it on
>(along with my copy of Ferber) to a cousin who needed it more than I
>do, but I am pretty sure she deals explicitly with very young infants
>in her book. I once saw a review that described it as "Ferber without
>the crying" which seems pretty accurate to me. A lot of it was stuff I
>had come up with on my own after reading Ferber and trying to adjust it
>to a gentler approach myself, but there were several new and useful
>ideas there as well. I'd really recommend it.
>

I'll second the recommendation of Pantley's book. I bought it when DS
was about 8 weeks and it has made a HUGE difference in his sleep
habits (he's 11 weeks now). The whole first part of the book is for
infants under 4 months old. A lot of it is common sense stuff that
after you read it you think, "That makes so much sense, why didn't I
think of that? - Oh right, because I've been sleep-deprived!" :) I
highly recommend it.

Katie
Real email: sphyrapicusathotmaildotcom