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Scott
January 19th 04, 11:59 PM
I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)

Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9

Banty
January 20th 04, 03:19 AM
In article >, Scott says...
>
>
>I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
>almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
>I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
>everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
>
>Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9
>

I never heard it until I lived in Rochester, New York. I thought it was local
(Rochester is close to the canal, called the "barge canal" there), until I heard
it on a Wee Sings tape.

Banty

Banty

Nick Theodorakis
January 20th 04, 04:29 AM
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:59:55 EST, Scott >
wrote:

>
>I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
>almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
>I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
>everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
>
>Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9
>


It might be a generational thing. I learned it in elementary school as
well, but my kids (ages 9, 9, and 6) don't seem to have been taught it
(and we live in Rochester, NY!)

Nick

--
Nick Theodorakis

nicholas_theodorakis [at] urmc [dot] rochester [dot] edu

Robyn Kozierok
January 20th 04, 06:32 PM
In article >,
Nick Theodorakis > wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:59:55 EST, Scott >
>wrote:
>>
>>I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
>>almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
>>I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
>>everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
>
>It might be a generational thing. I learned it in elementary school as
>well, but my kids (ages 9, 9, and 6) don't seem to have been taught it
>(and we live in Rochester, NY!)

I've never heard it. I went to elementary in MA and my kids are in VT.

Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)
--
For a challenging little arithmetic puzzle for kids and adults alike,
check out http://cgi.wff-n-proof.com/MSQ-Ind/I-1E.htm

H Schinske
January 20th 04, 11:33 PM
>On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:59:55 EST, Scott >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
>>almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
>>I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
>>everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)

I certainly didn't learn Erie Canal in school. I learned it from the Fireside
Book of Folk Songs, and frequently belted it out, as I recall, but I'd never
thought of it as being the sort of song everyone would learn in school. I'm
trying to think of songs (other than My country, 'tis of thee, and stuff like
that) that most American schoolchildren are, or were, taught. For some reason
Kookaburra (not exactly American!) is the only one that sticks in my head!

Oh, I *do* remember being taught We Shall Overcome, which enraptured me. I sang
it all the way home from school one day.

--Helen

Iowacookiemom
January 21st 04, 01:36 AM
I grew up in WI and didn't learn "Erie Canal," but I vividly remember that it
seemed like the whole curriculum for 4th grade music consisted of us singing
"Red River Valley."

-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 11

chiam margalit
January 21st 04, 12:06 PM
Scott > wrote in message >...
> I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
> almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
> I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
> everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
>
> Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9


DD learned it in her chorus class (required, and with the world's most
perkily annoying woman teaching it!) in 4th grade, and they all
performed it, along with several other American dittys, at a concert.
Not one of the most shining moments in parenting, if I recall
correctly!

Marjorie

chiam margalit
January 21st 04, 12:06 PM
(Robyn Kozierok) wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> Nick Theodorakis > wrote:
> >On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:59:55 EST, Scott >
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
> >>almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
> >>I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
> >>everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
> >
> >It might be a generational thing. I learned it in elementary school as
> >well, but my kids (ages 9, 9, and 6) don't seem to have been taught it
> >(and we live in Rochester, NY!)
>
> I've never heard it. I went to elementary in MA and my kids are in VT.

YOu've never heard the song, or heard kids learning the song? I find
it almost impossible to believe anyone hasn't heard the song (Chorus
is "Low Bridge, Everybody Down, Low Bridge, Cause we're Coming to a
Town, Well you'll always know your neighbor, You'll always know your
pal, if you've ever navigated on the Erie Canal." It's on about a
million PBS/History channel specials. :-)

Marjorie

Hillary Israeli
January 21st 04, 07:03 PM
In >,
chiam margalit > wrote:

*YOu've never heard the song, or heard kids learning the song? I find
*it almost impossible to believe anyone hasn't heard the song (Chorus
*is "Low Bridge, Everybody Down, Low Bridge, Cause we're Coming to a
*Town, Well you'll always know your neighbor, You'll always know your
*pal, if you've ever navigated on the Erie Canal." It's on about a
*million PBS/History channel specials. :-)

I've never heard of the song at all. I grew up in Philadelphia's suburbs.

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

Scott
January 21st 04, 07:39 PM
Hillary Israeli wrote:
> In >,
> chiam margalit > wrote:
>
> *YOu've never heard the song, or heard kids learning the song? I find
> *it almost impossible to believe anyone hasn't heard the song (Chorus
> *is "Low Bridge, Everybody Down, Low Bridge, Cause we're Coming to a
> *Town, Well you'll always know your neighbor, You'll always know your
> *pal, if you've ever navigated on the Erie Canal." It's on about a
> *million PBS/History channel specials. :-)
>
> I've never heard of the song at all. I grew up in Philadelphia's suburbs.

I also grew up in PA (central) and we sang it a lot in school.
That and Waltzing Matilda. I just figured it was part of the
cultural fabric and was surprised the kids didn't know it.
OTOH, it took me 40 years before I learned 'Just before the
battle mother' -- even tho' I remember seeing Linus sing
it. Maybe that song will resurface around 2010-2015 for the
sesquicentennial.

Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9

Robyn Kozierok
January 21st 04, 07:39 PM
In article >,
chiam margalit > wrote:
>>
>> I've never heard it. I went to elementary in MA and my kids are in VT.
>
>YOu've never heard the song, or heard kids learning the song? I find
>it almost impossible to believe anyone hasn't heard the song (Chorus
>is "Low Bridge, Everybody Down, Low Bridge, Cause we're Coming to a
>Town, Well you'll always know your neighbor, You'll always know your
>pal, if you've ever navigated on the Erie Canal." It's on about a
>million PBS/History channel specials. :-)
>

Never heard the song. I looked up the lyrics beofre posting, and they
were totally unfamiliar to me. I'm a math/computer/science geek; I
*very* rarely watch the History channel, and what I watch on PBS is
usually scientific, not historical.

I know I'm not the only one who's never heard it, because out of
curiousity I asked around briefly to see if someone knew it so I could
learn the tune, and couldn't find anyone who knew it.

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

user
January 21st 04, 08:09 PM
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:19:24 EST, Banty > wrote:
> In article >, Scott says...
>>
>>
>>I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
>>almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
>>I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
>>everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
>>
>>Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9
>>
>
> I never heard it until I lived in Rochester, New York. I thought it was local
> (Rochester is close to the canal, called the "barge canal" there), until I heard
> it on a Wee Sings tape.

Fellow Rochestarians are everywhere. ;-)

One point - the Barge Canal is not the Erie canal. There are some
points where they used the same canal path, but the Erie is, for
all intents and purposes, gone. Heck, the 490 expressway was built
on top of the Erie Canal bed - you can still see one of the old
locks near the Culver Road exit.

That being said - I know we were singing the song since
pre-school, at least.

Leah Adezio
January 21st 04, 08:58 PM
"Iowacookiemom" > wrote in message
...
> I grew up in WI and didn't learn "Erie Canal," but I vividly remember that
it
> seemed like the whole curriculum for 4th grade music consisted of us
singing
> "Red River Valley."

I wonder if it is more a generational thing -- after all, those of us who
are in our 40's now were schoolchildren in the late 60's - early 70s when
folk music was coming to the forefront of the American musical scene, and
with it, an interest in early Americana folk songs.

The music books we had in 3rd-5th grade (1968-71) were full of songs like
'Erie Canal', 'Shenandoah' (probably sp), 'Red River Valley', 'Kumbaya', 'Go
Down Moses' (I specifically remember singing this as a solo during class
when I was in 3rd grade), 'Go Tell Aunt Rhody', 'Skye Boat Song', 'Where
Have All the Flowers Gone', 'This Land is Your Land', 'Kukaburra', 'Waltzing
Matilda' and the ilk. Yes, I know these aren't all American folk songs, but
there was a definite trend towards the study of *folk* music during that
time.

Leah


>
> -Dawn
> Mom to Henry, 11
>

Chris Himes
January 21st 04, 08:59 PM
(Iowacookiemom) wrote in message >...
> I grew up in WI and didn't learn "Erie Canal," but I vividly remember that it
> seemed like the whole curriculum for 4th grade music consisted of us singing
> "Red River Valley."

I grew up in Indiana and we sang "Erie Canal," but my kids living in
Central NY only learned in their private piano lessons. I, too,
remember "Red River Valley," "Oh Susannah," "Ol' Betsy from Pike" and
"Home on the Range" as the elementary school standards (in the
1960s)--I guess westward expansion was the theme of the day!

Chris

Hillary Israeli
January 21st 04, 10:01 PM
In >,
Leah Adezio > wrote:

*I wonder if it is more a generational thing -- after all, those of us who
*are in our 40's now were schoolchildren in the late 60's - early 70s when
*folk music was coming to the forefront of the American musical scene, and
*with it, an interest in early Americana folk songs.

Well, I'm 33 (34 next month!).

*The music books we had in 3rd-5th grade (1968-71) were full of songs like
*'Erie Canal', 'Shenandoah' (probably sp), 'Red River Valley', 'Kumbaya', 'Go
*Down Moses' (I specifically remember singing this as a solo during class
*when I was in 3rd grade), 'Go Tell Aunt Rhody', 'Skye Boat Song', 'Where
*Have All the Flowers Gone', 'This Land is Your Land', 'Kukaburra', 'Waltzing
*Matilda' and the ilk. Yes, I know these aren't all American folk songs, but

We had Shenandoah, Kumbaya, Go Down Moses, Where Have all the Flowers
Gone, This Land is Your Land, Kookaburra, and Waltzing Mathilda, for sure.
Definitely not those other ones, though :)

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

Claire Petersky
January 21st 04, 11:02 PM
"Leah Adezio" > wrote in message
...

> I wonder if it is more a generational thing -- after all, those of us who
> are in our 40's now were schoolchildren in the late 60's - early 70s when
> folk music was coming to the forefront of the American musical scene, and
> with it, an interest in early Americana folk songs.

I really think this is it, although I'd identify that revival happening
earlier than late 1960s -- more like getting started in the mid/late 1950s.
By the early 70s the folk revival was pretty much played out, as many of
those popular musicians who had been singing "true" folk music got absorbed
into the larger, commercial pop scene. It's our younger teachers, who would
have been in college perhaps at the time of the revival and thus were
exposed to it, who then in turn taught these songs to us in the mid to late
1960s (and later).

Pete Seeger sang a version of Erie Canal on the album, "Traveling On with
The Weavers", which came out in 1963. That I should have learned it in first
grade in 1966 is not that surprising. Many of the folk songs we learned in
elementary school came out of the folk music revival of the 1950s and 1960s,
such as: Michael Row The Boat Ashore, If I Had A Hammer, Tom Dooley, Drill
Ye Tarriers, man, a little walk down memory lane -- I could go on and on.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com/friend/Cpetersky
My bookshelf: http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Cpetersky

Splanche
January 22nd 04, 12:11 AM
>Fellow Rochestarians are everywhere. ;-)
>

would it be within charter to see how many of us are here?

For all I know I see you guys at daycare pickup and don't even know it!

H Schinske
January 22nd 04, 12:12 AM
wrote:

>Many of the folk songs we learned in
>elementary school came out of the folk music revival of the 1950s and 1960s,
>such as: Michael Row The Boat Ashore, If I Had A Hammer, Tom Dooley, Drill
>Ye Tarriers, man, a little walk down memory lane -- I could go on and on.

Your list made me recall that one of the songs I came home from kindergarten
singing was "Maxwell's Silver Hammer." I don't know if I learned it from the
teacher or another child, though! Probably the latter.

--Helen

Robyn Kozierok
January 22nd 04, 12:25 AM
In article >,
Hillary Israeli > wrote:
>In >,
>Leah Adezio > wrote:
>
>*I wonder if it is more a generational thing -- after all, those of us who
>*are in our 40's now were schoolchildren in the late 60's - early 70s when
>*folk music was coming to the forefront of the American musical scene, and
>*with it, an interest in early Americana folk songs.
>
>Well, I'm 33 (34 next month!).
>
>*The music books we had in 3rd-5th grade (1968-71) were full of songs like
>*'Erie Canal', 'Shenandoah' (probably sp), 'Red River Valley', 'Kumbaya', 'Go
>*Down Moses' (I specifically remember singing this as a solo during class
>*when I was in 3rd grade), 'Go Tell Aunt Rhody', 'Skye Boat Song', 'Where
>*Have All the Flowers Gone', 'This Land is Your Land', 'Kukaburra', 'Waltzing
>*Matilda' and the ilk. Yes, I know these aren't all American folk songs, but
>
>We had Shenandoah, Kumbaya, Go Down Moses, Where Have all the Flowers
>Gone, This Land is Your Land, Kookaburra, and Waltzing Mathilda, for sure.
>Definitely not those other ones, though :)
>

I'm a little older than Hillary; not yet in my 40's. Of these, the songs
I learned as a child were:

Red River Valley, Kumbaya, Go Down Moses, Go Tell Aunt Rhody, Where Have
All the Flowers Gone, This Land is Your Land, Kukaburra, Waltzing Matilda.

But only This Land is Your Land and Waltzing Matilda were from school.
Others were from camp, Sunday school, etc. and Kukaburra was from when
my baby brother learned it in school :)

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

Hillary Israeli
January 22nd 04, 01:48 AM
In <pACPb.98454$sv6.407562@attbi_s52>,
Claire Petersky > wrote:

*elementary school came out of the folk music revival of the 1950s and 1960s,
*such as: Michael Row The Boat Ashore, If I Had A Hammer, Tom Dooley, Drill
*Ye Tarriers, man, a little walk down memory lane -- I could go on and on.

Oooh, we did the first three of those too :)
I didn't sleep well for days after we learned Tom Dooley. What a stupid
song to teach a bunch of third graders!

--
hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
"uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)

Nick Theodorakis
January 22nd 04, 04:05 AM
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:11:39 EST, (Splanche)
wrote:

>>Fellow Rochestarians are everywhere. ;-)
>>
>
>would it be within charter to see how many of us are here?

Well, ok <raises hand>. But we have been here only since the turn of
the century. (BTW, I learned the Erie canal song in the St. Louis area
where I grew up). There seem to be an awfully lot of us in usenet, or
at least on the ngs I read. Must be because of those long cold
winters.

>
>For all I know I see you guys at daycare pickup and don't even know it!
>

Not unless you were using the KinderCare near StrongHospital/UofR
about two years ago ;-)

Nick

--
Nick Theodorakis

nicholas_theodorakis [at] urmc [dot] rochester [dot] edu

Donna Metler
January 22nd 04, 04:06 AM
"Scott" > wrote in message
...
>
> I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
> almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
> I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
> everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
>
> Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9
>
Erie Canal is in the grade 5 Macmillan-McGraw Hill Music book. I don't have
the Silver Burdett at home, but it is similar. Grade 5 is usually when the
big push on US history comes into play, and therefore a lot of the
traditional folk songs come in at this age.

Donna Metler
January 22nd 04, 04:07 AM
"Hillary Israeli" > wrote in message
...
> In >,
> Leah Adezio > wrote:
>
> *I wonder if it is more a generational thing -- after all, those of us who
> *are in our 40's now were schoolchildren in the late 60's - early 70s when
> *folk music was coming to the forefront of the American musical scene, and
> *with it, an interest in early Americana folk songs.
>
> Well, I'm 33 (34 next month!).
>
> *The music books we had in 3rd-5th grade (1968-71) were full of songs like
> *'Erie Canal', 'Shenandoah' (probably sp), 'Red River Valley', 'Kumbaya',
'Go
> *Down Moses' (I specifically remember singing this as a solo during class
> *when I was in 3rd grade), 'Go Tell Aunt Rhody', 'Skye Boat Song', 'Where
> *Have All the Flowers Gone', 'This Land is Your Land', 'Kukaburra',
'Waltzing
> *Matilda' and the ilk. Yes, I know these aren't all American folk songs,
but
>
> We had Shenandoah, Kumbaya, Go Down Moses, Where Have all the Flowers
> Gone, This Land is Your Land, Kookaburra, and Waltzing Mathilda, for sure.
> Definitely not those other ones, though :)

What music is taught depends heavily on the philosophy of the music teacher.
Orff or Kodaly trained teachers will lean heavily towards folk songs, both
US and international. Teachers who are more traditional/choral will do fewer
folk songs, and more choral works, which generally means either new music or
more classical music. Both Orff and Kodaly were predominantly musicologists,
and teachers trained in their tradition have similar focuses. The Macmillan
series is designed for Orff/Kodaly-type instruction, and is heavy on folk
songs, but other common resources such as Music Alive! barely touch on the
American folk song tradition. Music K-8, which is often used because it is
much less expensive than textbooks, includes maybe 1 folk song out of 10
pieces. (I use Music K-8 as a supplement, but use Macmillan as the primary
text for my classes, plus lots of other Orff resources. I don't use Music
Alive! at all.) Almost no music teacher goes cover to cover in the books,
both because there isn't enough time, and because you quickly learn which
songs work and which don't really work well with your children-and there are
always some in each book which fall totally flat with the kids-and which the
teacher isn't thrilled with, either. The grade 6 Macmillan book includes a
lot of '80's bubblegum pop songs, which the kids don't like at all-and
which don't serve any objectives which can't be reached by much more
appealing music.
>
> --
> hillary israeli vmd http://www.hillary.net
> "uber vaccae in quattuor partes divisum est."
> not-so-newly minted veterinarian-at-large :)
>

Banty
January 22nd 04, 11:37 AM
In article >, H Schinske says...
>
wrote:
>
>>Many of the folk songs we learned in
>>elementary school came out of the folk music revival of the 1950s and 1960s,
>>such as: Michael Row The Boat Ashore, If I Had A Hammer, Tom Dooley, Drill
>>Ye Tarriers, man, a little walk down memory lane -- I could go on and on.
>
>Your list made me recall that one of the songs I came home from kindergarten
>singing was "Maxwell's Silver Hammer." I don't know if I learned it from the
>teacher or another child, though! Probably the latter.

That's The Beatles; not a folk song.

Banty

Banty
January 22nd 04, 11:40 AM
In article >, user says...
>
>On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:19:24 EST, Banty > wrote:
>> In article >, Scott says...
>>>
>>>
>>>I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
>>>almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
>>>I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
>>>everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
>>>
>>>Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9
>>>
>>
>>I never heard it until I lived in Rochester, New York. I thought it was local
>>(Rochester is close to the canal, called the "barge canal" there), until I heard
>> it on a Wee Sings tape.
>
> Fellow Rochestarians are everywhere. ;-)

If you count living there for one summer whilst working for The Great Yellow
Father...

Banty (..and learning how to play bocce near Lyell Ave.)

Banty
January 22nd 04, 11:40 AM
In article >, Leah Adezio says...
>
>
>"Iowacookiemom" > wrote in message
...
>> I grew up in WI and didn't learn "Erie Canal," but I vividly remember that
>it
>> seemed like the whole curriculum for 4th grade music consisted of us
>singing
>> "Red River Valley."
>
>I wonder if it is more a generational thing -- after all, those of us who
>are in our 40's now were schoolchildren in the late 60's - early 70s when
>folk music was coming to the forefront of the American musical scene, and
>with it, an interest in early Americana folk songs.
>
>The music books we had in 3rd-5th grade (1968-71) were full of songs like
>'Erie Canal', 'Shenandoah' (probably sp), 'Red River Valley', 'Kumbaya', 'Go
>Down Moses' (I specifically remember singing this as a solo during class
>when I was in 3rd grade), 'Go Tell Aunt Rhody', 'Skye Boat Song', 'Where
>Have All the Flowers Gone', 'This Land is Your Land', 'Kukaburra', 'Waltzing
>Matilda' and the ilk. Yes, I know these aren't all American folk songs, but
>there was a definite trend towards the study of *folk* music during that
>time.
>
>Leah

You mean they didn't teach you "Bury Me Not on the Lone Prarie" ??!?

Banty (maybe it was a Wichita Falls thing...)

Marijke
January 22nd 04, 01:59 PM
"chiam margalit" > wrote in message > YOu've never heard
the song, or heard kids learning the song? I find
> it almost impossible to believe anyone hasn't heard the song (Chorus
> is "Low Bridge, Everybody Down, Low Bridge, Cause we're Coming to a
> Town, Well you'll always know your neighbor, You'll always know your
> pal, if you've ever navigated on the Erie Canal." It's on about a
> million PBS/History channel specials. :-)
>

Never heard of it.

Marijke

Donna Metler
January 22nd 04, 06:23 PM
"H Schinske" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
> >Many of the folk songs we learned in
> >elementary school came out of the folk music revival of the 1950s and
1960s,
> >such as: Michael Row The Boat Ashore, If I Had A Hammer, Tom Dooley,
Drill
> >Ye Tarriers, man, a little walk down memory lane -- I could go on and on.
>
> Your list made me recall that one of the songs I came home from
kindergarten
> singing was "Maxwell's Silver Hammer." I don't know if I learned it from
the
> teacher or another child, though! Probably the latter.
>
Tom Dooley is in my Guitar book for my 3rd-5th graders, but given today's
zero-tolerance for mention of violence, I rather figure I should skip that
one! Same with some of the other folk songs.


> --Helen
>

user
January 22nd 04, 06:56 PM
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:23:04 EST, Donna Metler > wrote:
>
> "H Schinske" > wrote in message
> ...
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Many of the folk songs we learned in
>> >elementary school came out of the folk music revival of the 1950s and
> 1960s,
>> >such as: Michael Row The Boat Ashore, If I Had A Hammer, Tom Dooley,
> Drill
>> >Ye Tarriers, man, a little walk down memory lane -- I could go on and on.
>>
>> Your list made me recall that one of the songs I came home from
> kindergarten
>> singing was "Maxwell's Silver Hammer." I don't know if I learned it from
> the
>> teacher or another child, though! Probably the latter.
>>
> Tom Dooley is in my Guitar book for my 3rd-5th graders, but given today's
> zero-tolerance for mention of violence, I rather figure I should skip that
> one! Same with some of the other folk songs.

Interesting that you should mention that... I'm taking my DS, who
will be 3-1/2 at the time, on a weekend trip to Fort Klock
( http://www.fortklock.com ) for, interspersed with some genealogy research,
their Colonial camp life re-enactment. I mentioned this to one
friend, who thought I was absolutely nuts to take a child that
small to an event where people would be "pretending to kill each other".

I then mentioned it to another friend who is in the midst of
teaching a unit on the Revolutionary War period to her combined
5th/6th grade class, and she told me that the curriculum skips
entirely over *any* facts relating to casualties. if she stuck
entirely to the approved lesson material, the kids would only
know that a battle occurred on such-and-such a date, and that
it's generally accepted that side X won.

Particularly when it comes to the Revolution, where "major"
battles in Upstate NY often involved only a few dozen or hundred
combatants with very few casualties, it seems like the students
are missing out on both the facts and the context - it would
be too easy for them to imagine that the battles involved
tens or hundreds of thousands of soldiers as in the Civil War
or later engagements.

Anyhow, I'm curious about how sanitized current Elementary and
Middle/High school texts have become, in regards to history.
I have distinct recollections of seeing many graphic Matthew
Brady photographs in my texts from the early 1980's, and was
wondering if that was still the case.

Tracey
January 22nd 04, 07:42 PM
I'm finding this discussion particularly interesting, especially considering
the fact that so many school districts have decreased the quantity of music
education in the curriculum.

When I was in elementary school (70s) and middle school (79-81) I do
remember learning "Erie Canal". My memories include TONS of patriotic songs
and songs like Erie Canal that seem to discuss American history. Someone
else mentioned Home on the Range, and that was part of our reperoitoire as
well. I bought several of the Wee Sing tapes when my DD (age 7) was a
toddler, and was surprised that I knew almost all of gthe songs on all of
the tapes (though I think I learned as many or more of them at YMCA Camp and
in Girl Scouts as I did in school).

My middle school music experience was based soley on the whims of our music
teacher I think. All I remember from music class in middle school was that
we learned "Greensleeves", "Morning has Broken", "One Tin Solider", "The
boxer" and we did an in depth study of "Tommy".

tracey in CT

January 22nd 04, 07:58 PM
> >Fellow Rochestarians are everywhere. ;-)
>
> would it be within charter to see how many of us are here?

Is there room in here for an "almost, but not quite"?

-Hazel of the Finger Lakes
(close enough to get the Cold Rush ads in my weekend paper)

Robyn Kozierok
January 22nd 04, 09:40 PM
In article >,
Donna Metler > wrote:
>
>Tom Dooley is in my Guitar book for my 3rd-5th graders, but given today's
>zero-tolerance for mention of violence, I rather figure I should skip that
>one! Same with some of the other folk songs.
>

That's where I learned Tom Dooley -- in-school guitar lessons in 4th
grade.

Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

p.s. Ya shoulda seen me trying to get on the school bus as a *tiny* 4th
grader with a full-sized guitar! Got quite a few friendly suggestions to
take up harmonica ;-)

--
Support a family business and learn about the technologies underlying
the Internet with the TCP/IP Guide! http://www.tcpipguide.com

H Schinske
January 23rd 04, 12:46 AM
>>Your list made me recall that one of the songs I came home from kindergarten
>>singing was "Maxwell's Silver Hammer." I don't know if I learned it from the
>>teacher or another child, though! Probably the latter.
>
>That's The Beatles; not a folk song.

Yes, I know. Hillary's list *reminded* me of it, that's all. Probably because
she listed a title with Michael (sounds like Maxwell) and a title with Hammer
right next to each other.

--Helen

user
January 23rd 04, 12:49 AM
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:11:39 EST, Splanche > wrote:
>>Fellow Rochestarians are everywhere. ;-)
>>
>
> would it be within charter to see how many of us are here?
>
> For all I know I see you guys at daycare pickup and don't even know it!

Nope, though if you happened to have any kids at Winton Road
Nursery School, or spend any time at all in Penfield/Fairport/Perinton
parks, you'd be likely to see us. ;-)

chiam margalit
January 23rd 04, 12:16 PM
(Hillary Israeli) wrote in message >...
> In >,
> Leah Adezio > wrote:
>
> *I wonder if it is more a generational thing -- after all, those of us who
> *are in our 40's now were schoolchildren in the late 60's - early 70s when
> *folk music was coming to the forefront of the American musical scene, and
> *with it, an interest in early Americana folk songs.
>
> Well, I'm 33 (34 next month!).

I'm older than all of you put together, born in 1952, educated in Los
Angeles CA from 1956 to 1969.
>
> *The music books we had in 3rd-5th grade (1968-71) were full of songs like
> *'Erie Canal', 'Shenandoah' (probably sp), 'Red River Valley', 'Kumbaya', 'Go
> *Down Moses' (I specifically remember singing this as a solo during class
> *when I was in 3rd grade), 'Go Tell Aunt Rhody', 'Skye Boat Song', 'Where
> *Have All the Flowers Gone', 'This Land is Your Land', 'Kukaburra', 'Waltzing
> *Matilda' and the ilk. Yes, I know these aren't all American folk songs, but
>
> We had Shenandoah, Kumbaya, Go Down Moses, Where Have all the Flowers
> Gone, This Land is Your Land, Kookaburra, and Waltzing Mathilda, for sure.
> Definitely not those other ones, though :)

I had pretty much all these songs, and particularly remember singing a
solo on Go Tell AUnt Rhody (that the old grey goose is dead, a cheery
song!) when I was in 3rd grade. I don't recall the Kukaburra song from
school, but we did do Waltzing Matilda, which I was always taught
wasn't an American folk song at all, but Australian. That's correct,
right?

We learned a lot of Weavers/Pete Seeger/Woodie Guthrie/Peter Paul and
Mary stuff as school children, but the majority of our songs for
performances (and there were WAAAAAYYY too many of them in those days)
were from American folk tradition, like "The Water is Wide", "If I had
a Hammer", "This Land is YOur Land" etc.

Marjorie

Penny Gaines
January 23rd 04, 06:08 PM
chiam margalit wrote in >:

>> We had Shenandoah, Kumbaya, Go Down Moses, Where Have all the Flowers
>> Gone, This Land is Your Land, Kookaburra, and Waltzing Mathilda, for
>> sure. Definitely not those other ones, though :)
>
> I had pretty much all these songs, and particularly remember singing a
> solo on Go Tell AUnt Rhody (that the old grey goose is dead, a cheery
> song!) when I was in 3rd grade. I don't recall the Kukaburra song from
> school, but we did do Waltzing Matilda, which I was always taught
> wasn't an American folk song at all, but Australian. That's correct,
> right?

Of all the songs mentioned, the only two I learned at school were
The Skye Boat Song (Scottish) and Waltzing Matilda (Australian).

I've definitely never heard of the Ernie Canal song.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

Elizabeth Gardner
January 23rd 04, 07:46 PM
In article >,
Penny Gaines > wrote:

> chiam margalit wrote in >:
>
> >> We had Shenandoah, Kumbaya, Go Down Moses, Where Have all the Flowers
> >> Gone, This Land is Your Land, Kookaburra, and Waltzing Mathilda, for
> >> sure. Definitely not those other ones, though :)
> >
> > I had pretty much all these songs, and particularly remember singing a
> > solo on Go Tell AUnt Rhody (that the old grey goose is dead, a cheery
> > song!) when I was in 3rd grade. I don't recall the Kukaburra song from
> > school, but we did do Waltzing Matilda, which I was always taught
> > wasn't an American folk song at all, but Australian. That's correct,
> > right?
>
> Of all the songs mentioned, the only two I learned at school were
> The Skye Boat Song (Scottish) and Waltzing Matilda (Australian).
>
> I've definitely never heard of the Ernie Canal song.

No, no, the "Ernie Canal Song" is the Sesame St. version ;-).

I can't imagine the Erie Canal song would ever make it outside the
borders of the U.S., but I certainly sang it in grade school (probably
around 4th or 5th grade). This would have been in the 1960s. All our
songs were folk songs from somewhere or other. The stuff my daughter is
singing in second grade music seems to be pretty mediocre and apparently
written by some music educator specifically for second graders. So I
just have to teach her the traditional stuff myself.

Jayne Kulikauskas
January 24th 04, 02:59 PM
"Elizabeth Gardner" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
>
[]
> I can't imagine the Erie Canal song would ever make it outside the
> borders of the U.S., but I certainly sang it in grade school (probably
> around 4th or 5th grade). This would have been in the 1960s.

I grew up in Toronto, Canada and learned it in school. This was also 60s.

Jayne

Naomi Pardue
January 26th 04, 11:45 PM
>>Fellow Rochestarians are everywhere. ;-)
>>
>
>would it be within charter to see how many of us are here?

I'm a former Rochesterian. (Haven't lived there in 25 years, but grew up there
and still visit often, since my parents and sister still live there.)

(When a neighbor was digging a swimming pool back in the late 60's IIRC, they
found a bunch of junk that had been tossed into the Erie Canal lo those many
years ago.)


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

Mary Ann
January 29th 04, 01:29 AM
My kids didn't learn it either and we lived in Waterford NY where the Erie
Canal begins and where it is still active.
"Nick Theodorakis" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:59:55 EST, Scott >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
> >almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
> >I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
> >everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
> >
> >Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9
> >
>
>
> It might be a generational thing. I learned it in elementary school as
> well, but my kids (ages 9, 9, and 6) don't seem to have been taught it
> (and we live in Rochester, NY!)
>
> Nick
>
> --
> Nick Theodorakis
>
> nicholas_theodorakis [at] urmc [dot] rochester [dot] edu
>

Jeff
January 29th 04, 02:39 AM
"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> Xref: news-g.iadfw.net misc.kids.moderated:26001
>
>
> I was amazed to learn this month that my kids (10.5 and
> almost 8) have not learned the words to 'Erie Canal'.
> I thought that was required learning for elementary schoolers
> everywhere, but it seems I was mistaken. :)
>
> Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.9
>

I never learned these songs. And I am 38.

Jeff