Appropriate age to "go steady"?

[M Kelley]

Hi,

My 12 year old wants to "go steady" with a boy from her 7th grade
class. I am interested in hearing about age appropriate activities
other's have allowed their daughters, i.e., school events only, group
activities with a parent/supervisor etc. Is there a road map out
there that allows me to keep my daughter safe while allowing her an
age appropriate amount of freedom? My sense is that if I say no, it's
going to be happening anyway.

(If not an appropriate question for this group...kindly point me in
the right direction)

Thanks,
M Kelley

[Leah Adezio]

"M Kelley" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi,
>
> My 12 year old wants to "go steady" with a boy from her 7th grade
> class. I am interested in hearing about age appropriate activities
> other's have allowed their daughters, i.e., school events only, group
> activities with a parent/supervisor etc. Is there a road map out
> there that allows me to keep my daughter safe while allowing her an
> age appropriate amount of freedom? My sense is that if I say no, it's
> going to be happening anyway.

When my son said he wanted to ask a girl to 'go steady' at the same age, the
first thing I did was to ask what that meant to them.

Did it mean that they were going to pass notes in class and that's it? Walk
each other to and from school? Identify themselves as boyfriend/girlfriend
to their friends? Give a trinket to signify 'going steady' (such as a
locket, bracelet or tiny ring?).

Once you get that answer, I think you'll have a better idea as to whether
'going steady' is appropriate for your daughter.

As far as specific activities, I allowed the walking to and from school
thing and he was allowed to take her to low-key public places (going for
pizza downtown, school dances and movies), either with a group of friends or
by themseves. She was welcome to come to our house and he could go to hers
as long as an adult was home.

I should add that at the time, we lived in my childhood hometown which was
very small and we lived about a block away from the main drag (where the
theater and pizza place were and both were on their walking route to and
from school)...and the girl lived about 4 blocks away from us.

I also have a very open relationship with my sons and we have been able to
discuss issues of sex, sexuality and relationships in an age appropriate way
since they were preschoolers (they're 18 and almost 14 now). I personally
didn't have a problem telling my then 12 year old specific actions that I
thought were appropriate for him in regards to a girl -- for example, the
'okay list' at that age included holding hands, walking arm in arm...putting
an arm around her shoulder while seated (say, while at the theater watching
a movie), brief hugs and the occasional, short, closed mouthed kiss. (in
the short time they were 'steadies', he never attempted to kiss her, though
because her parents were even stricter than my late husband and I were and I
think my son was afraid of her father <g>).

HTH.

Leah

>
> (If not an appropriate question for this group...kindly point me in
> the right direction)
>
> Thanks,
> M Kelley
>

[Weyoun the Dancing Borg]

"M Kelley" > wrote in message
m...
> Hi,
>
> My 12 year old wants to "go steady" with a boy from her 7th grade
> class. I am interested in hearing about age appropriate activities
> other's have allowed their daughters, i.e., school events only, group
> activities with a parent/supervisor etc. Is there a road map out
> there that allows me to keep my daughter safe while allowing her an
> age appropriate amount of freedom? My sense is that if I say no, it's
> going to be happening anyway.
>
> (If not an appropriate question for this group...kindly point me in
> the right direction)
>
> Thanks,
> M Kelley

Hey M Kelley!

Kids are kids. I bet you money that they saw that phrase on TV. They wont be
having sex if that's what you're worried about. I'm not a parent myself so
YMMV, but chill out a bit. Let them have their fun. As long as it doesnt
affec ttheir school work, and they are home when they say they will be, then
what's the harm?

[Jeff]

"Weyoun the Dancing Borg" > wrote in
message ...
>
> "M Kelley" > wrote in message

(...)

> Kids are kids. I bet you money that they saw that phrase on TV. They wont
be
> having sex if that's what you're worried about.

Actually, that is something to worry about. Some boys are physiologically
ready to do it at age 12
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8018684&dopt=Abstract
and do it at age 12; others might not be able to have sex until age 15 or
16. Kids at these ages (adolescents) are not well-known for good self
control or good judgement. Note: The study was in 1990 -- kids are having
sex and becoming sexually mature at a younger age. (I am not suggesting that
your daughter would do this at this age; the point is that it happens at
this age and you should prepare your daughter).

Besides, the issue will come up within the next few years, so now is a good
time to begin to deal with it. And, this is a subject that is on their minds
a lot at this age and well into adulthood. And her friends might be doing
it.

Personally, I think education is the key. Once they have the proper
knowledge about sex and condoms and birth control, and understand that
having sex can mean having a baby the 1st time they have sex, it is up to
them to make their own decisions. Knowlege and the ability to use that
knowledge is the key.

Jeff

(...)

[illecebra]

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:51:24 EST, "Jeff" >
wrote:

<snip>
>Actually, that is something to worry about. Some boys are physiologically
>ready to do it at age 12
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8018684&dopt=Abstract
>and do it at age 12; others might not be able to have sex until age 15 or
>16. Kids at these ages (adolescents) are not well-known for good self
>control or good judgement. Note: The study was in 1990 -- kids are having
>sex and becoming sexually mature at a younger age. (I am not suggesting that
>your daughter would do this at this age; the point is that it happens at
>this age and you should prepare your daughter).
>
>Besides, the issue will come up within the next few years, so now is a good
>time to begin to deal with it. And, this is a subject that is on their minds
>a lot at this age and well into adulthood. And her friends might be doing
>it.
>
>Personally, I think education is the key. Once they have the proper
>knowledge about sex and condoms and birth control, and understand that
>having sex can mean having a baby the 1st time they have sex, it is up to
>them to make their own decisions. Knowlege and the ability to use that
>knowledge is the key.
>
>Jeff
>
>(...)
>

Not to start a panic or anything, but when I graduated 8th grade, I
was one of thre or four girls in my class that were still virgins.

That said, I agree that giving as much information as possible to your
kids about sex, and doing so from an early age, is invaluable in
making sure that they can make sound decisions in the future. There
are tons of good books out there, as well as a couple of websites if
you feel you need to bone up on your sexual knowledge.

www.scarleteen.com is a wonderful resource for young people and their
parents.

www.sexuality.org is another, even more in-depth, resource but it is
really written for adults rather than for younger people.

I would hope that you already started to teach her about sex quite
some time ago. If you haven't, I would NOT start now as a reaction to
her wanting to "go steady." That's the kind of reaction that makes
young people feel that sex is an expected consequence of any romantic
interest. Give enough time that the two events seem unrelated.

Sex is not the only natural evolution of puppy love. It's definitely
a good idea to aske her what "going steady" means to her before you
suggest anything. That way you both know what you're talking about.

I don't know your daughter's maturity level well enough to be totally
accurate in suggesting boundaries, but here are a few ideas that you
can take or leave as you feel appropriate:

-- Double dates and group outings tend to be a lot easier and more
low-key than one-on-one dates.

-- I have a pet peeve about parents who forbid dates in one of the
kids' homes. If a responsible adult is around, a night of
movie-watching is just fine IMHO. In my experience, banning the
"night in" will get many kids thinking that the material part of the
date (ie buying movie tickets, paying for dinner, etc) is the most
important part, and/or that an at-home date naturally implies sex.

-- A lot of young people feel VERY uncomfortable with parental
supervision on a date. An older sibling, or an older teen cousin or
friend of the family whom you trust may be an option agreeable to
everyone. (Of course, this may require bribing said older sibling.)

As for going on dates alone, what is appropriate depends a lot on
where you live, and what's available there.

Susan

[Scott]

Leah Adezio wrote:

[snip good advice]

> (in
> the short time they were 'steadies', he never attempted to kiss her, though
> because her parents were even stricter than my late husband and I were and I
> think my son was afraid of her father <g>).
>

<chuckle>

I hope to be the father that boys are afraid of with respect
to DD :-D

Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.95

[user]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:20:24 EST, Scott > wrote:
> Leah Adezio wrote:
>
> [snip good advice]
>
>> (in
>> the short time they were 'steadies', he never attempted to kiss her, though
>> because her parents were even stricter than my late husband and I were and I
>> think my son was afraid of her father <g>).
>>
>
><chuckle>
>
> I hope to be the father that boys are afraid of with respect
> to DD :-D
>

According to one of my former co-workers, he used
to tell any boy who dated his daughter, "I have a shotgun,
a shovel, and a really big backyard." Apparently he
got some awfully wide-eyed looks...

[H Schinske]

Susan wrote:

>Not to start a panic or anything, but when I graduated 8th grade, I
>was one of thre or four girls in my class that were still virgins.

*blink*

What surprises me about this is that you KNEW. About them, I mean, not you. I
can't think of very many people, even in high school, where I knew for sure
they were or were not virgins.

--Helen

[Robyn Kozierok]

In article >,
illecebra > wrote:
>
>www.scarleteen.com is a wonderful resource for young people and their
>parents.

This site seems to be aimed at teen *girls*. Can you recommend a good
site for teen (or pre-teen) boys?

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

[illecebra]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:26:25 EST, (H Schinske)
wrote:

>Susan wrote:
>
>>Not to start a panic or anything, but when I graduated 8th grade, I
>>was one of thre or four girls in my class that were still virgins.
>
>*blink*
>
>What surprises me about this is that you KNEW. About them, I mean, not you. I
>can't think of very many people, even in high school, where I knew for sure
>they were or were not virgins.
>
>--Helen

It's kind of hard not to notice sometimes... what I find funny is
that in high school (I went to a private Catholic school), everyone
seemed to think that I must be sleeping around because I could talk
about sex without blushing, and few who didn't have firsthand
knowledge suspected the girls who actually were.

Susan

[user]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:02:07 EST, illecebra > wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:26:25 EST, (H Schinske)
> wrote:
>
>>Susan wrote:
>>
>>>Not to start a panic or anything, but when I graduated 8th grade, I
>>>was one of thre or four girls in my class that were still virgins.
>>
>>*blink*
>>
>>What surprises me about this is that you KNEW. About them, I mean, not you. I
>>can't think of very many people, even in high school, where I knew for sure
>>they were or were not virgins.
>>
>>--Helen
>
> It's kind of hard not to notice sometimes... what I find funny is
> that in high school (I went to a private Catholic school), everyone
> seemed to think that I must be sleeping around because I could talk
> about sex without blushing, and few who didn't have firsthand
> knowledge suspected the girls who actually were.

There's no way I would start making assumptions. Back when
I was in High School, my best friend's sister was "well-known"
as someone who was sleeping around - extremely pretty,
very popular, dated a new guy practically every week, etc,
and, according to my sister, all the girls talked among
themselves about what a "tramp" she was. Heck, I assumed
she wasn't a virgin at the very least, either.

Imagine my surprise when BF's sister came to me when
she was a senior, asking if I thought she was old enough
to lost her virginity with her boyfriend.

Turns out that a lot of the reason she went out with so
many guys was they all expected her to sleep with them on
the first date, so she'd dump them, and of course the
guys would make up stories that something had happened,
and the other girls would hear and believe them,
etc, etc. None of it was true.

[Leah Adezio]

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> Leah Adezio wrote:
>
> [snip good advice]
>
> > (in
> > the short time they were 'steadies', he never attempted to kiss her,
though
> > because her parents were even stricter than my late husband and I were
and I
> > think my son was afraid of her father <g>).
> >
>
> <chuckle>
>
> I hope to be the father that boys are afraid of with respect
> to DD :-D

*snork*

Let's not dump this all on the boys, though. Given how aggressive some
girls can be, *I* feel like sitting them down, giving them the hard stare
and saying, 'Don't you even *think* about seducing my babies....' :D

So far, so good, though. My just turned 18 year old has *finally* begun
wading into the dating pool, having attended his first semi-formal this
winter and talking more about girls he thinks are interesting.

His current potential dilemna is that there is a girl who appears to be
taking interest in him...and was acting like she was even last year....but
she also had a boyfriend. I told my son just to keep his distance and
remain friends with her because he was also friendly with the boyfriend.

Now, it appears that boyfriend is on the way out of the picture. Since his
friendship with the boy has also strengthened since they all met (since we
moved into the district over a year ago), I suggested that if they do break
up, to let some time elapse before asking the girl out or anything so that
the boy doesn't think that my son was just waiting to move in like some
teenaged predator. :) ...that it's as just as important to take the boy's
feelings into consideration because breaking up can really suck.

Leah
>
> Scott DD 10.5 and DS 7.95
>

[Weyoun the Dancing Borg]

> Actually, that is something to worry about. Some boys are physiologically
> ready to do it at age 12
>
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8018684&dopt=Abstract
> and do it at age 12; others might not be able to have sex until age 15 or
> 16. Kids at these ages (adolescents) are not well-known for good self
> control or good judgement. Note: The study was in 1990 -- kids are having
> sex and becoming sexually mature at a younger age. (I am not suggesting
that
> your daughter would do this at this age; the point is that it happens at
> this age and you should prepare your daughter).

True. But then right now I have the ability to go out my front door and stab
the closest person I find with a 6 inch kitch knife. I don't, of course,
because I know it would be a stupid thing to do. Children are not stupid,
they do understand the adult world a lot more than some adults give them
credit for. This is an issue of trust. Do you trust your children not to
have sex until they are ready? If you do not trust them, you have to ask
yourself some questions.




>
> Besides, the issue will come up within the next few years, so now is a
good
> time to begin to deal with it. And, this is a subject that is on their
minds
> a lot at this age and well into adulthood. And her friends might be doing
> it.
>
> Personally, I think education is the key. Once they have the proper
> knowledge about sex and condoms and birth control, and understand that
> having sex can mean having a baby the 1st time they have sex, it is up to
> them to make their own decisions. Knowlege and the ability to use that
> knowledge is the key.


I agree entirely.

[illecebra]

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:37:45 EST, "Weyoun the Dancing Borg"
> wrote:

<snip>
>
>True. But then right now I have the ability to go out my front door and stab
>the closest person I find with a 6 inch kitch knife. I don't, of course,
>because I know it would be a stupid thing to do. Children are not stupid,
>they do understand the adult world a lot more than some adults give them
>credit for. This is an issue of trust. Do you trust your children not to
>have sex until they are ready? If you do not trust them, you have to ask
>yourself some questions.
>
<snip>

Kids act and think a lot more like adults than most adults give them
credit for. Now look at how many stupid adults there are out there
and ask yourself whether or not that's a good thing.

I think I'll trust my son to make good choices when the time comes
around, about sex, money, career path, and everything else in
life--because I've already started teaching him about all these
things. (He's a year old.)

It's largely in how you raise them, with the rest having to do with
individual personalitites. My take is that you can't control them
every minute, so it's better to teach them to control themselves and
make responsible choices. In letting my young teen or preteen (ok I
don't have one yet, so I'm hypothesizing) go out on a date, I'd worry
more about them getting mugged, etc. than them having sex if they're
not ready for it. Two young people out alone make a great target.

Susan

[Bruce and Jeanne]

H Schinske wrote:

> Susan wrote:
>
> >Not to start a panic or anything, but when I graduated 8th grade, I
> >was one of thre or four girls in my class that were still virgins.
>
> *blink*
>
> What surprises me about this is that you KNEW. About them, I mean, not you. I
> can't think of very many people, even in high school, where I knew for sure
> they were or were not virgins.
>
> --Helen
>

When a girl asks "Is he your boyfriend or are you just sleeping
together?" (and this isn't apparently an odd question) I can see Susan's
viewpoint.

Jeanne

[Weyoun the Dancing Borg]

X-No-Archive: yes
illecebra wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:37:45 EST, "Weyoun the Dancing Borg"
> > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> True. But then right now I have the ability to go out my front door
>> and stab the closest person I find with a 6 inch kitch knife. I
>> don't, of course, because I know it would be a stupid thing to do.
>> Children are not stupid, they do understand the adult world a lot
>> more than some adults give them credit for. This is an issue of
>> trust. Do you trust your children not to have sex until they are
>> ready? If you do not trust them, you have to ask yourself some
>> questions.
>>
> <snip>
>
> Kids act and think a lot more like adults than most adults give them
> credit for. Now look at how many stupid adults there are out there
> and ask yourself whether or not that's a good thing.
>
> I think I'll trust my son to make good choices when the time comes
> around, about sex, money, career path, and everything else in
> life--because I've already started teaching him about all these
> things. (He's a year old.)
>
> It's largely in how you raise them, with the rest having to do with
> individual personalitites. My take is that you can't control them
> every minute, so it's better to teach them to control themselves and
> make responsible choices. In letting my young teen or preteen (ok I
> don't have one yet, so I'm hypothesizing) go out on a date, I'd worry
> more about them getting mugged, etc. than them having sex if they're
> not ready for it. Two young people out alone make a great target.
>
> Susan

Yup, that's the bigger danger. I had a friend who's mother was always
watching him - she went through his bags when he came home, she listened to
him on the phone, she installed Net Nanny on his PC (he was 16), she was
even known to follow him around town.

I have no idea why, he never did anything wrong, didn't smoke or drink - she
was just nuts. He moved out at 17 and they do not talk because of this.
Soemtimes you just have to let bad things happen to your kids - they will
live and learn. You can tell them not to use their mobile phone in the
middle of town, and if they do not listen to you, they get it stolen. They
don't end up hurt, but they lose the phone. But they wont do it again. Of
course with sex it's a very different thing, once you catch an STD it might
be impossible to get rid of it. I don't know where I'm going with this heeh
:)