Another special ed question

[Leandra]

Since I seem to have the special ed folks attention (thankyou for all
the great help so far!), and at least one has mentioned speech
therapy, I have a question about that too.

My daughter (6yo) might need speech therapy. She pronounces all
sounds right but has a fluency issue where she pauses in the middle of
a word to take a breath and then continues, starting right in the
middle of the word where she left off. It's different from stuttering
and stammering. We always figured she would outgrow it and her
pedatrician thinks she probably will. Her teacher says it makes her
hard to understand. she was evaluated by a speech therapist who
thinks therapy would help but our insurance won't pay any part of it
and she also thinks it is not critical now. We have ruled out any
physical cause (which is why insurance won't pay anything). But I am
trying to find out if she can get free speech therapy through school.
Her school is small and does not have a speech therapist on staff but
a nearby school does. But the nearby school is not in our home
district. I'm not sure if there is any school in our district that
does have one. The one that used to is very far from our home and our
school. Also her school is a private school so I don't know how that
all works. Who would determine if she would qualify for free speech
therapy, her school or our home district? Could "out of district
placement" apply to something like speech therapy only and not a
fulltime placement? Or would our home district be required to provide
transportation to and from therapy for her? Could our school get sped
funds for her and use them to bring a private speech therapist in to
work with her once or twice a week? Even if we would have to pay
part of the cost of that that would probably be best. we want to
aviod if possible having to pay full cost of private therapy which
would be $200 a week. I have just started looking into this but I
haven't got very far. Our home district acts like it has never come
up that a child in the district goes to a private school outside the
district and it is a hardship to have to travel to their therapist.
In fact even from the schools in our district nearest to us it would
be crazy to have to travel to where their therapist is twice a week.
so if anyone knows anything i'm interested in learning more so I know
who to approach and stuff.

Thankyou
Leandra

[Sandi Jones]

Leandra wrote:
....My daughter (6yo) might need speech therapy. She pronounces all
> sounds right but has a fluency issue where she pauses in the middle of
> a word to take a breath and then continues, starting right in the
> middle of the word where she left off....

It would be very helpful to journal her speech where this is concerned,
so that you might be able to find the common thread. Is it more or less
constant? Is this more common when she is excited? Does it occur more in
busy, distracting places? When she's tired? When she's hungry? After
eating certain types of foods? (I know that this one sounds off of the
wall, but food allergies can present strangely!) Does time of day play
into it? And are you sure that there are any Asthma or other allergy
problems?

The more data that you can present to the professionals, who will have a
short time to evaluate her, the better quality of help you will receive.

Sandi

[Kevin Karplus]

In article >,
Leandra wrote:
> My daughter (6yo) might need speech therapy. She pronounces all
> sounds right but has a fluency issue where she pauses in the middle of
> a word to take a breath and then continues, starting right in the
> middle of the word where she left off. It's different from stuttering
> and stammering. We always figured she would outgrow it and her
> pedatrician thinks she probably will. Her teacher says it makes her
> hard to understand. she was evaluated by a speech therapist who
> thinks therapy would help but our insurance won't pay any part of it
> and she also thinks it is not critical now. We have ruled out any
> physical cause (which is why insurance won't pay anything). But I am
> trying to find out if she can get free speech therapy through school.
> Her school is small and does not have a speech therapist on staff but
> a nearby school does. But the nearby school is not in our home
> district. I'm not sure if there is any school in our district that
> does have one. The one that used to is very far from our home and our
> school. Also her school is a private school so I don't know how that
> all works.

Everything sounded fine up to this point. Few private schools include
any speech therapy. While public school districts are obligated to
provide necessary speech therapy to students in private schools (at
least in California), here is definitely a case where they will try to
provide the absolute minimal legally required service, since they are
getting paid absoultely nothing for providing it. They can't even
justify the expense by saying that it will lower the load on their
mainstream teaching staff.

In fact, if my child were going to a private school, I would be
embarassed to ask the public schools to provide any services at all.
If you are taking the child out of the public school system, and
removing the per-child allotment from the school budget, why should
they go out of their way to provide expensive services for you?

Note: in other states budgeting for special ed services may be done
more sanely than in Calfornia, so my comments my not apply.

> Who would determine if she would qualify for free speech
> therapy, her school or our home district? Could "out of district
> placement" apply to something like speech therapy only and not a
> fulltime placement? Or would our home district be required to provide
> transportation to and from therapy for her? Could our school get sped
> funds for her and use them to bring a private speech therapist in to
> work with her once or twice a week? Even if we would have to pay
> part of the cost of that that would probably be best. we want to
> aviod if possible having to pay full cost of private therapy which
> would be $200 a week. I have just started looking into this but I
> haven't got very far. Our home district acts like it has never come
> up that a child in the district goes to a private school outside the
> district and it is a hardship to have to travel to their therapist.
> In fact even from the schools in our district nearest to us it would
> be crazy to have to travel to where their therapist is twice a week.
> so if anyone knows anything i'm interested in learning more so I know
> who to approach and stuff.

Unless the private school is a placement recommended by the school
district, I'd say you haven't much chance of getting more than the
legally mandated minimum service (which is probably about 3 sessions a
year).


--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

[Robyn Kozierok]

In article >,
Kevin Karplus > wrote:
>
>In fact, if my child were going to a private school, I would be
>embarassed to ask the public schools to provide any services at all.
>If you are taking the child out of the public school system, and
>removing the per-child allotment from the school budget, why should
>they go out of their way to provide expensive services for you?
>
>Note: in other states budgeting for special ed services may be done
>more sanely than in Calfornia, so my comments my not apply.

Don't schools get federal funding for special ed? In Vermont at
least, I was under the impression that schools, both public and private,
got some additional funding per SPED student.

--Robyn

[Banty]

In article >, Kevin Karplus says...
>

>
>In fact, if my child were going to a private school, I would be
>embarassed to ask the public schools to provide any services at all.
>If you are taking the child out of the public school system, and
>removing the per-child allotment from the school budget, why should
>they go out of their way to provide expensive services for you?

Because children move to and from private to the public school system
frequently, and/or the services' relationship to the public school system is
seen primarily as one of classifying the children and providing a vehicle for
educational services which had been intended for all children? Because
"private" does not necessarily equal "rich and well-endowed", let alone "able to
provide all manner of services"?

In New York State, speech therapy and similar services are provided by the
school district regardless of enrollment in the public vs. private schools.

I would encourage the OP to inquire of her specific school system and/or the
evaluators exactly what the possibilities are. For my son's speech therapy, I
was pleased and astounded to learn that it was provided free, and at his
childcare provider's setting, regardless of our enrollment plans, and continued
during his private Montessori school enrollment.

Banty

[Scott]

Leandra wrote:
> Since I seem to have the special ed folks attention (thankyou for all
> the great help so far!), and at least one has mentioned speech
> therapy, I have a question about that too.
>
> My daughter (6yo) might need speech therapy. She pronounces all
> sounds right but has a fluency issue where she pauses in the middle of
> a word to take a breath and then continues, starting right in the
> middle of the word where she left off. It's different from stuttering
> and stammering. We always figured she would outgrow it and her
> pedatrician thinks she probably will. Her teacher says it makes her
> hard to understand. she was evaluated by a speech therapist who
> thinks therapy would help but our insurance won't pay any part of it
> and she also thinks it is not critical now. We have ruled out any
> physical cause (which is why insurance won't pay anything). But I am
> trying to find out if she can get free speech therapy through school.
> Her school is small and does not have a speech therapist on staff but
> a nearby school does. But the nearby school is not in our home
> district. I'm not sure if there is any school in our district that
> does have one. The one that used to is very far from our home and our
> school. Also her school is a private school so I don't know how that
> all works. Who would determine if she would qualify for free speech
> therapy, her school or our home district? Could "out of district
> placement" apply to something like speech therapy only and not a
> fulltime placement? Or would our home district be required to provide
> transportation to and from therapy for her? Could our school get sped
> funds for her and use them to bring a private speech therapist in to
> work with her once or twice a week? Even if we would have to pay
> part of the cost of that that would probably be best. we want to
> aviod if possible having to pay full cost of private therapy which
> would be $200 a week. I have just started looking into this but I
> haven't got very far. Our home district acts like it has never come
> up that a child in the district goes to a private school outside the
> district and it is a hardship to have to travel to their therapist.
> In fact even from the schools in our district nearest to us it would
> be crazy to have to travel to where their therapist is twice a week.
> so if anyone knows anything i'm interested in learning more so I know
> who to approach and stuff.


This isn't answering your question, but if it were me,
I'd wait it out. DS in 2nd grade is sometimes difficult
to understand. But he has mild hearing loss in one ear,
so I'm not sure of the underlying cause. IME, though,
almost any 6-yo is occasionally very difficult to
understand. DD has a delightful lisp in 1st grade, and
it's gone now. Anyway, since the pediatrician isn't
concerned, I wouldn't be either.

Scott, DD 10.5 and DS 8

[Leah Adezio]

Kevin Karplus > wrote in message
...

> In fact, if my child were going to a private school, I would be
> embarassed to ask the public schools to provide any services at all.
> If you are taking the child out of the public school system, and
> removing the per-child allotment from the school budget, why should
> they go out of their way to provide expensive services for you?

Because they're taxpayers and pay taxes to support the public schools.
Private school students can be screened for specialized services through the
child's *home* school district (i.e., the district the parents pay their
taxes to).
>
> Note: in other states budgeting for special ed services may be done
> more sanely than in Calfornia, so my comments my not apply.

They're more sane in both NJ and PA, fwiw. :)

>
> > Who would determine if she would qualify for free speech
> > therapy, her school or our home district?

Your home district would be the one doing the evaluation and provision of
services if she's determined to be eligible.

>Could "out of district
> > placement" apply to something like speech therapy only and not a
> > fulltime placement? Or would our home district be required to provide
> > transportation to and from therapy for her?

Around here, what would usually happen is that a therapist contracted to
your home district would be assigned to her if she's eligible. Where the
services are rendered could vary (sometimes depending on the therapist's
schedule). They might take place at her school....the therapist might be
able to come to your home...or you might have to take her to the public
school (if possible, maybe after her day at private school ends).

>Could our school get sped
> > funds for her and use them to bring a private speech therapist in to
> > work with her once or twice a week? Even if we would have to pay
> > part of the cost of that that would probably be best. we want to
> > aviod if possible having to pay full cost of private therapy which
> > would be $200 a week. I have just started looking into this but I
> > haven't got very far. Our home district acts like it has never come
> > up that a child in the district goes to a private school outside the
> > district and it is a hardship to have to travel to their therapist.

School districts provide in-home instruction for homebound students (i.e., a
child who's on bedrest for a few weeks with a broken leg, or recovering from
surgery to the point where they can have instruction, but can't handle
normal school routine...or a child with a condition that prevents them from
being within a normal school environment (like children with the rare
condition that doesn't allow them exposure to sunlight, or a child with a
compromised immune system) all the time. Specific skill therapists can also
be 'sent out' as well. They're often contracted by schools as independent
contracted employees for a certain number of hours per week, so it is
possible that a therapist who lives near you could be hired by a district
not near you to provide services.

You may have to push and nudge, but you can find the specs for state and
federal law online. Get them, get familiar with them. Know your child's
rights.

> > In fact even from the schools in our district nearest to us it would
> > be crazy to have to travel to where their therapist is twice a week.
> > so if anyone knows anything i'm interested in learning more so I know
> > who to approach and stuff.
>
> Unless the private school is a placement recommended by the school
> district, I'd say you haven't much chance of getting more than the
> legally mandated minimum service (which is probably about 3 sessions a
> year).

Untrue. Both private and parochial school students can be given special ed
services by their home districts if they're elgible for them, and 'legally
mandated' really doesn't mean anything. The criteria under federal law is
that services be given in the least restrictive environment determined by
what the child needs to have the goals in their IEP met. There's no
'minimum' standard because each child's needs are different.

Leah

[H Schinske]

>
>Kevin Karplus > wrote in message
...
>
>> In fact, if my child were going to a private school, I would be
>> embarassed to ask the public schools to provide any services at all.

Around here, many preschoolers (as young as three) get speech therapy at the
local elementary schools. If my son had qualified at three, he could have seen
the speech therapist at the same school my daughters were attending. The
parents may not even *know* whether the child is going to attend public school.
Or they may be pretty sure that their child will attend public school
somewhere, but they may move out of the district by the time the child is in
kindergarten. It's *definitely* not tied to enrollment status.

--Helen

[just me]

"H Schinske" > wrote in message
...
> Around here, many preschoolers (as young as three) get speech therapy at
the
> local elementary schools. If my son had qualified at three, he could have
seen
> the speech therapist at the same school my daughters were attending. The
> parents may not even *know* whether the child is going to attend public
school.
> Or they may be pretty sure that their child will attend public school
> somewhere, but they may move out of the district by the time the child is
in
> kindergarten. It's *definitely* not tied to enrollment status.
>


Exactly. DS was evaluated by the local child find folks when he was 2.5.
The evaluation resulted in the development of an IEP for speech therapy.
The schools were very aware, because we told them up front, that we would be
home schooling when he came of age. That did not impact the IEP in any way.
These are Federal [US] dollars being used to attempt to help children be
more successful in the educational setting. Many of these services are
utilized and ended prior to the child achieving the date when they are
eligible to even enroll in kindergarten. And, as always, ymmv as some
States and/or school districts will apply the guidelines somewhat
differently than what I have experienced here in Fl.

-Aula

[Kevin Karplus]

In article >, H Schinske wrote:
>>
>>Kevin Karplus > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> In fact, if my child were going to a private school, I would be
>>> embarassed to ask the public schools to provide any services at all.
>
> Around here, many preschoolers (as young as three) get speech therapy at the
> local elementary schools. If my son had qualified at three, he could have seen
> the speech therapist at the same school my daughters were attending. The
> parents may not even *know* whether the child is going to attend public school.
> Or they may be pretty sure that their child will attend public school
> somewhere, but they may move out of the district by the time the child is in
> kindergarten. It's *definitely* not tied to enrollment status.

My son also had speech therapy from the school district before he was
old enough to go to school (starting at about 2 1/2), so I do know
that services are not tied to school enrollment.

I have also asked about what speech therapy would be available to my
son if he moved to a private school---the answer came out being about
an order of magnitude less that what he is getting in the public school.

California's funding of public education is weird. It is not tied to
property tax (except in some rich communities which get extra). The
property tax all goes to the state which pays a fixed amount per child
to the schools.

City and County governments are also given back some of the property
tax, though the state keeps giving back less than they are supposed
to, in order to pay for all the prisons they run. Most special ed
services have to come out of the state per-student allotment---it is
like a capitated HMO plan rather than a fee-for-service insurance.
I've simplified the explanation quite a bit here---it is far more
baroque and incomprehensible than I could possibly make it appear.

In California, taking a student out of the public schools reduces the
budget of the school. Asking for special-ed services does not make
the money appear, even though the school is obligated to provide the
service. Unfunded mandates abound in California.

--
Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

[Jeff]

"Kevin Karplus" > wrote in message
...
> Xref: news-g.iadfw.net misc.kids.moderated:26340
>
> In article >,
> Leandra wrote:
> > My daughter (6yo) might need speech therapy. She pronounces all
> > sounds right but has a fluency issue where she pauses in the middle of
> > a word to take a breath and then continues, starting right in the
> > middle of the word where she left off. It's different from stuttering
> > and stammering. We always figured she would outgrow it and her
> > pedatrician thinks she probably will. Her teacher says it makes her
> > hard to understand. she was evaluated by a speech therapist who
> > thinks therapy would help but our insurance won't pay any part of it
> > and she also thinks it is not critical now. We have ruled out any
> > physical cause (which is why insurance won't pay anything). But I am
> > trying to find out if she can get free speech therapy through school.
> > Her school is small and does not have a speech therapist on staff but
> > a nearby school does. But the nearby school is not in our home
> > district. I'm not sure if there is any school in our district that
> > does have one. The one that used to is very far from our home and our
> > school. Also her school is a private school so I don't know how that
> > all works.
>
> Everything sounded fine up to this point. Few private schools include
> any speech therapy. While public school districts are obligated to
> provide necessary speech therapy to students in private schools (at
> least in California), here is definitely a case where they will try to
> provide the absolute minimal legally required service, since they are
> getting paid absoultely nothing for providing it.

I disagree. Schools often get funds from property taxes (I am not sure that
this is true in every state, but most public schools get local property
taxes and state taxes). So it is incorrect to say that the school is not
getting necessary funds. And who pays property and state taxes that support
public schools?

BTW, if the child went to public school, where would the money the state
would give to the school come from? It is not free money, but money from the
people. There is no reason not take advantage of every service that a public
schools has to offer. The parents are paying for them.

> They can't even
> justify the expense by saying that it will lower the load on their
> mainstream teaching staff.

No one can justify the expense that way.

However, they can justify the expense easily, because it helps a student who
needs the schools services for the services that the school is in the
business of providing.

> In fact, if my child were going to a private school, I would be
> embarassed to ask the public schools to provide any services at all.

I would be even more embarassed if I didn't do everything that I could have
done to help my child. There is nothing at all embarassing about getting
help from a school which you provide financial support.

> If you are taking the child out of the public school system, and
> removing the per-child allotment from the school budget, why should
> they go out of their way to provide expensive services for you?

What about the local allotment that the parents pay (property taxes)? What
about the foreign students in schools who don't pay property taxes or taxes
at all?

> Note: in other states budgeting for special ed services may be done
> more sanely than in Calfornia, so my comments my not apply.

Who cares? If a child needs services that it is appropriate that the school
provides it, the funding is the state's and school's problem.

(...)

> Unless the private school is a placement recommended by the school
> district, I'd say you haven't much chance of getting more than the
> legally mandated minimum service (which is probably about 3 sessions a
> year).

Actually, regardless of who recommended what, the child should get all the
services she needs.

Jeff


>
>
> --
> Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
> life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
> Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
> Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa
Cruz
> Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
> Affiliations for identification only.
>