Advice Please (x-posted)

[toto]

As many of you know my granddaughter is very tiny and
has been having eating problems and sleeping problems
since she was born.

Her mom is due with the second baby very soon (Mar 22).

The nutritionist who evaluated her today gave advice that
I sort of agree with, but that I wonder if anyone here can
add to. Help with weaning her from nursing to sleep and
waking and not settling without nursing would also be appreciated.

Here are the reccommendations:

1. Give her lots of chances to be in her high chair and eat
solids. Don't offer her the breast or sippy cup first. Let her
eat at least something before offering the sippy cup. I agree
with this one. She has never actually had a schedule for
her meals and she doesn't get enough chances to eat before
she drinks.

2. Try to find a lovey for her that she can take to bed. Don't
nurse her to sleep, put her down awake even if she cries.

3. Have her stay overnight with us so mom isn't there to nurse
her when she wakes up. This we are willing to do. She has
stayed overnight with us once and did sleep, but she did
wake alot and get held and rocked back to sleep by one of us.

4. Try to comfort her without picking her up when she does
wake. (They suggested Ferber, but I don't like that much and
will have to see. I don't know that we can break her associations
without trying Ferber because she has had them for so long).

She is 18 pounds 6 ounces at 19 months. She seems pretty
healthy though in terms of her activity level. She does tend to
sleep for 2 to 3 hours during the day alone when she is at our house,
but she is mostly rocked to sleep on my husband's or my shoulder
not put down awake. She sometimes would sleep even longer
but we usually wake her after 3 hours because we don't want her
to be awake all night. Not sure if we should allow longer naps just
to get her in the habit of longer sleeps and *then* try to reverse
the day and night thing after that?

TIA for any advice you can give us.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[Tina]

toto > wrote in message >...
> As many of you know my granddaughter is very tiny and
> has been having eating problems and sleeping problems
> since she was born.
>

My daughter weighed almost the same as your grandaughter, and didn't
sleep so soundly, and I had my second when she was 23 months old, so,
a little bigger time difference, but not much.

I continued to nurse Sage (my older) to sleep at night for two reasons
-- I wanted her to have as many calories as she could get, and it was
really easy to put her to sleep that way. My husband works nights, so
I didn't have any options other than CIO, which I felt very weird
about considering for an almost 2 year old. She'd be to sleep in 5
minutes or less, and that was very valuable to me with a newborn.

> 1. Give her lots of chances to be in her high chair and eat
> solids. Don't offer her the breast or sippy cup first. Let her
> eat at least something before offering the sippy cup. I agree
> with this one. She has never actually had a schedule for
> her meals and she doesn't get enough chances to eat before
> she drinks.
>

We don't even give our kids drinks with meals until they're done or
nearly done. If they ask, we will, of course, but I find that they
really eat a bunch more, and have always, if I don't let them fill up
on drinks. Also, I only give them drinks before meals or during (if
requested) in small-ish cups. A friend of mine had her son using a
reguls cup without a lid before he was 2, with barely any mess, and it
might really cut down on the beverage intake. From the rest of the
thread it didn't seem that your daughter (daughter-in-law?) is
offering the breast at mealtime anyway, which makes perfect sense.

> 2. Try to find a lovey for her that she can take to bed. Don't
> nurse her to sleep, put her down awake even if she cries.

I didn't do this, as I mentioned. I can kind of see the wisdom in
encouraging this, but I took the path of least resistance. Also, I
supplied 'lovies' for my girls, but they never really took to them.
Even now, my older daughter (almost 5, she's not still nursing), likes
to go to sleep rubbing my arm while I hold her, and I allow it. It
works, and it isn't hurting anyone.

>
> 3. Have her stay overnight with us so mom isn't there to nurse
> her when she wakes up. This we are willing to do. She has
> stayed overnight with us once and did sleep, but she did
> wake alot and get held and rocked back to sleep by one of us.
>

This we've done with both of my girls, and they sleep much better for
my parents. My younger daughter will still ask for me, or ask to come
home and nurse, but it's just a habit. She's nearly 3 and nurses
rarely, even at home. This would also be a good plan if you're going
to be watching her when the baby comes for a couple of days -- to try
it out some more. My daughters stay with my parents about once a week
now.

> 4. Try to comfort her without picking her up when she does
> wake. (They suggested Ferber, but I don't like that much and
> will have to see. I don't know that we can break her associations
> without trying Ferber because she has had them for so long).
>

That might work, but what does she sleep in? A crib that she doesn't
climb out of yet, a bed or toddler bed? With my girls, this would've
encouraged dangerous attempts to climb out, I think. And how could
you keep a toddler in a bed without picking them up and putting them
back in, or forcibly holding them?

> She is 18 pounds 6 ounces at 19 months. She seems pretty
> healthy though in terms of her activity level. She does tend to
> sleep for 2 to 3 hours during the day alone when she is at our house,
> but she is mostly rocked to sleep on my husband's or my shoulder
> not put down awake. She sometimes would sleep even longer
> but we usually wake her after 3 hours because we don't want her
> to be awake all night. Not sure if we should allow longer naps just
> to get her in the habit of longer sleeps and *then* try to reverse
> the day and night thing after that?
>

Switching the days and nights seems risky to me. That's a nice long
nap. I'd shorten it, personally, which would give her big girl time
with mom once the baby comes, maybe ; ).

To night wean my older daughter, I allowed her water in a sippy cup,
and reduced the amount night by night. I also had my husband go to
her so she wouldn't ask to nurse. I unfortunately allowed my younger
daugther to cry to night wean her, but it didn't work so well. She'll
sleep through the night mostly, but she did climb out of her crib a
lot, get hurt, and teach herself to throw up 'on demand' to get me to
come in there. She still asks to nurse at night, but is OK with a
refusal [overnight, that is. I still nurse her to sleep if she wants.

Good Luck, and after watching both of mine grow through that stage --
and they were usually around their age in months in pounds -- I think
there's not so much to worry about weighwise if there aren't any
outstanding medical issues that could contribute to weight gain.

Tina.

[Robyn Kozierok]

In article >,
toto > wrote:
>As many of you know my granddaughter is very tiny and
>has been having eating problems and sleeping problems
>since she was born.

Hi,

I have a tiny son as well. He was even a little smaller than
your granddaughter at 19 months. He's now almost 3 and still
tiny (I haven't weighed him recently, but he's off the charts).

You haven't really described what the eating and sleeping
problems are that they are trying to solve, but I'll offer my
best guess advice here.


>The nutritionist who evaluated her today gave advice that
>I sort of agree with, but that I wonder if anyone here can
>add to. Help with weaning her from nursing to sleep and
>waking and not settling without nursing would also be appreciated.
>
>Here are the reccommendations:
>
>1. Give her lots of chances to be in her high chair and eat
>solids. Don't offer her the breast or sippy cup first. Let her
>eat at least something before offering the sippy cup. I agree
>with this one. She has never actually had a schedule for
>her meals and she doesn't get enough chances to eat before
>she drinks.

This makes sense. But keep in mind that most of what she will
eat in the high chair will be less calorie-dense than breastmilk.
So, while it's a good plan to get her used to eating a variety of
foods, the breastmilk is important to her growth too, IMO. Of
course in the best case scenario, she'll eat the solids because
she's hungry, and then take the breastmilk in addition for comfort.
(The fact that your daughter is pregnant may impact the quality
and quantity of her milk; I'm not sure about this.)

Your daughter should be sure that her daughter is getting enough
hindmilk when she nurses.

Also, I would recommend figuring out when your granddaughter
eats the most and feeding her more then. It seems obvious but
we found with two of ours that they were most hunger earliest
in the day, and we could get two pretty big breakfasts into them
at, say, 7 and 10 a.m. If you wait until dinnertime to feed
her substantial amounts of solids, that may just not be an
ideal time for her.

>2. Try to find a lovey for her that she can take to bed. Don't
>nurse her to sleep, put her down awake even if she cries.

Mine all ended up with loveys (one monkey, and two blankies) but they
were attached before 19 months. (Actually, my middle child is not all
that attached. He's just going along with the crowd.) To introduce one
at this age try snuggling it in while nursing. Might as well try to
introduce something that you have a duplicate of, and swap them weekly
so you don't end up with a single absolutely needed item. (This never
worked out for me...)

>3. Have her stay overnight with us so mom isn't there to nurse
>her when she wakes up. This we are willing to do. She has
>stayed overnight with us once and did sleep, but she did
>wake alot and get held and rocked back to sleep by one of us.
>
>4. Try to comfort her without picking her up when she does
>wake. (They suggested Ferber, but I don't like that much and
>will have to see. I don't know that we can break her associations
>without trying Ferber because she has had them for so long).

I'd suggest the book "The No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth
Pantley. It is in many ways a kinder, gentler Ferber. She advocates
breaking sleep associations more gradually than Ferber does. She
specifically addresses nursing to sleep with a method called the
"Pantley Pull-Off". I don't recall the details and have passed the
book on to a cousin, since my kids all sleep beautifully now. :-)

>She is 18 pounds 6 ounces at 19 months. She seems pretty
>healthy though in terms of her activity level. She does tend to
>sleep for 2 to 3 hours during the day alone when she is at our house,
>but she is mostly rocked to sleep on my husband's or my shoulder
>not put down awake. She sometimes would sleep even longer
>but we usually wake her after 3 hours because we don't want her
>to be awake all night. Not sure if we should allow longer naps just
>to get her in the habit of longer sleeps and *then* try to reverse
>the day and night thing after that?

That sounds like a tougher approach to take, IMO.

Good luck,
--Robyn